Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland BBC Documentary sub English episode 5
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00:00:00This all seems very atmospheric.
00:00:13I just realised there, Sian, you told me I had to wear black.
00:00:29And I've worn nothing, which is...
00:00:32Is it OK? Does it look OK?
00:00:34It happens all the time.
00:00:36Sorry about that.
00:00:38I never even thought, to be honest.
00:00:41I never even thought. I'm sorry about that.
00:00:43It's OK, you're grand.
00:00:45If we're going to do this,
00:00:47we should invite this IRA guy to come with us.
00:00:49Then I would never have met an IRA guy,
00:00:51so I didn't know how I was going to feel.
00:00:53But as we were chatting this through,
00:00:55the IRA guy...
00:00:57I did a talk in a school,
00:00:59and I was telling my story.
00:01:01It was one of those moments in my journey
00:01:03that was the breakthrough moment.
00:01:05It was one of those moments
00:01:07in my journey that was the breakthrough moment.
00:01:10When this one guy, this kid,
00:01:12got up and he said,
00:01:14look, you know,
00:01:16with the greatest of respect,
00:01:18your stories are your stories,
00:01:20but they're not our stories.
00:01:22And we don't want to hear them anymore.
00:01:24Because as far as we're concerned,
00:01:26the troubles are over,
00:01:28and people are getting on with their lives.
00:01:30And I don't want to say how he
00:01:32had as many Protestant friends
00:01:34as he had Catholic friends.
00:01:36So I just thought for a moment,
00:01:38I asked a group of boys,
00:01:40Catholic boys, probably about 16, 17 years old,
00:01:42that when they left school
00:01:44and got a job and settled down,
00:01:46how many of them would consider
00:01:48buying a house or renting a house
00:01:50on the Shankill Road?
00:01:52And not one person
00:01:54put their hand up.
00:01:56And of course the reason for that
00:01:58is that we live in a divided society,
00:02:00and the fact is that the Shankill Road is a Protestant area,
00:02:02and that you wouldn't be safe as a Catholic living there.
00:02:04So if, you know,
00:02:06the troubles are over,
00:02:08how come people wouldn't move into each other's areas?
00:02:10Because we're not there yet.
00:02:12You know, we have to have
00:02:14a shared society that respects
00:02:16and values everybody's contribution
00:02:18to this society.
00:02:20I mean, I'm talking
00:02:22now about, like, frigging, you know,
00:02:24like John Lennon or something, I guess,
00:02:26you know, in terms of, you know,
00:02:28might as well get the guitar and start singing peace songs and stuff.
00:02:30But it's about that, you know?
00:02:36...
00:02:38...
00:02:40...
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00:03:00I'd known Ulf Sharon
00:03:02for many years.
00:03:04...
00:03:06She played in a little
00:03:08gospel band.
00:03:12But then,
00:03:14in 1984,
00:03:16I
00:03:18decided to become a Christian.
00:03:20And
00:03:22I then decided that
00:03:24I couldn't go
00:03:26and do the things that I used to do,
00:03:28so I used to always go out with my cousin John, drinking,
00:03:30on a Saturday night.
00:03:32...
00:03:34...
00:03:36...
00:03:38...
00:03:40...
00:03:42...
00:03:44We were both big Rod Stewart fans,
00:03:46but you couldn't really be into Rod Stewart,
00:03:48particularly after he did Do You Think I'm Sexy,
00:03:50you know?
00:03:52...
00:03:54In those days,
00:03:56I didn't think that Christians drank,
00:03:58so I decided that that wasn't right
00:04:00to do that anymore.
00:04:02...
00:04:04And then I had nothing to do on a Saturday night,
00:04:06so my friend
00:04:08that I went to church with
00:04:10suggested that I come along
00:04:12to the youth club,
00:04:14and Sharon was there.
00:04:16...
00:04:18Yeah, we started
00:04:20going out that night, actually, so I was a Christian
00:04:22about a week
00:04:24when I met Sharon.
00:04:26We were both from
00:04:28working-class Protestant areas,
00:04:30but we were very different in many respects.
00:04:32Her life,
00:04:34from a very early stage,
00:04:36was very much centred around the church,
00:04:38where mine wasn't.
00:04:40But I fell in love with her very quickly.
00:04:42...
00:04:44...
00:04:46...
00:04:48...
00:04:50...
00:04:52...
00:04:54...
00:04:56...
00:04:58...
00:05:00...
00:05:02I guess life was pretty set, you know?
00:05:04You sort of fell in love,
00:05:06got married, had a kid.
00:05:08...
00:05:10The troubles were
00:05:12in full pelt,
00:05:14even though there were efforts
00:05:16to bring this to an end.
00:05:18John Hume and Gerry Adams
00:05:20say their series of meetings
00:05:22made considerable progress
00:05:24...
00:05:26I don't really think we had any huge expectations
00:05:28of real change coming.
00:05:30You know, we just thought
00:05:32that we would always have the troubles,
00:05:34and so you kind of get on with your lives
00:05:36in spite of the troubles.
00:05:38...
00:05:40You hardly stopped to think,
00:05:42oh my goodness, this is horrendous.
00:05:44...
00:05:46...
00:05:48...
00:05:50There was an acceptable level of balance,
00:05:52unless it was somebody that you knew,
00:05:54you know, you might as well have not have happened
00:05:56because you didn't really think about it at all.
00:05:58...
00:06:00...
00:06:02...
00:06:04...
00:06:06...
00:06:08...
00:06:10...
00:06:12Now, if you come across somebody wearing
00:06:14a bright red plastic nose in the next few weeks,
00:06:16don't be alarmed.
00:06:18The chances are that they haven't gone potty.
00:06:20There were red noses on many famous faces today.
00:06:22The comic relief organisers
00:06:24want more than a million people
00:06:26to wear them on February the 5th.
00:06:28...
00:06:30...
00:06:32...
00:06:34It was the first comic relief.
00:06:36Everybody was excited about
00:06:38red noses and different things.
00:06:40...
00:06:42...
00:06:44...
00:06:46...
00:06:48I remember
00:06:50going to school
00:06:52and like lots of other kids who were
00:06:5416, putting up
00:06:56your posters for comic relief
00:06:58and
00:07:00being called down into the headmaster's
00:07:02office and thinking,
00:07:04God,
00:07:06I haven't asked permission to put these
00:07:08posters up. Here we go, this is going to be like,
00:07:10you know, who do you think
00:07:12you are, you know, when you're in your posters?
00:07:14And the headmaster
00:07:16said to me,
00:07:22I think
00:07:24you need to sit down.
00:07:26There was a
00:07:28sort of a weird slow motion, but a very quick
00:07:30exchange, which was, he said,
00:07:32your father's been shot.
00:07:34And I said, is he dead?
00:07:36And he said, yes.
00:07:38And
00:07:40...
00:07:42...
00:07:44...
00:07:46...
00:07:48...
00:07:50...
00:07:52Mr. Kielty was sitting in the office
00:07:54when two hooded gunmen entered around
00:07:56half past eleven. As his secretary
00:07:58watched in horror, they shot him several
00:08:00times at close range.
00:08:02My dad was a
00:08:04building contractor
00:08:06and
00:08:08rather than pay protection money to
00:08:10loyalist paramilitaries,
00:08:12they decided to go to the police.
00:08:14You know, my dad was
00:08:16the chairman of the Gaelic Football Club,
00:08:18which would have been considered
00:08:20a Catholic organisation.
00:08:22So
00:08:24you put both of those together
00:08:26and that was reason
00:08:28enough for them to kill him.
00:08:30Mr. Kielty's
00:08:32eldest sons, John and Patrick,
00:08:34carried the coffin.
00:08:36The UFF, a cover name for
00:08:38the UDA, admitted killing him.
00:08:42My main thought was that I wanted
00:08:44to be the person that my dad wanted me
00:08:46to be. I wanted to do
00:08:48something
00:08:50and live my life in a way
00:08:52that he would be happy
00:08:54with how things have turned out.
00:08:58And so
00:09:00that was sort of the backdrop
00:09:02to
00:09:04my university years and
00:09:06getting into
00:09:08stand-up.
00:09:10Our next contestant from Dundrum
00:09:12County Down, let's have a welcome
00:09:14for Patrick Kielty.
00:09:16APPLAUSE
00:09:18APPLAUSE
00:09:20APPLAUSE
00:09:22APPLAUSE
00:09:24Hello,
00:09:26my name is Patrick Kielty and
00:09:28I'm down from Northern Ireland
00:09:30tonight.
00:09:32You wanted to show people
00:09:34that you were functioning.
00:09:36You wanted to show people that
00:09:38this sadness
00:09:40you were carrying, this brokenness that you had
00:09:42wasn't everything about you.
00:09:44Well, Mr. O'Hare,
00:09:46LAUGHTER
00:09:48Let me steal it for you
00:09:50tonight, quite candidly.
00:09:52LAUGHTER
00:09:54I started doing more material
00:09:56about what was going on in the news
00:09:58and you had an audience that had a real
00:10:00passion for it.
00:10:02And that became The Empire,
00:10:04The Empire Comedy Club.
00:10:06Which changed my life.
00:10:08CHEERING
00:10:10Hello and welcome to
00:10:12The Empire Comedy Club here in Belfast.
00:10:14CHEERING
00:10:16This guy here, you could be a policeman,
00:10:18couldn't you? Yeah, with the sort of...
00:10:20With the hair there.
00:10:22And you could be a Royal Irish Regiment soldier,
00:10:24for all we know.
00:10:26And this guy over here with the long hair,
00:10:28he's a bit of a clown, Kesh, don't you, sir?
00:10:30LAUGHTER
00:10:32Yes, we all know what you could be.
00:10:34He's giving me that look.
00:10:36I am.
00:10:38LAUGHTER
00:10:40The sense of humour is very strong
00:10:42in Northern Ireland.
00:10:44You know, having fun in a bar, having crack,
00:10:46because if you were being funny,
00:10:48you didn't have to talk about yourself.
00:10:50Because nobody wanted to answer the question,
00:10:52how are you?
00:10:54Terrifying.
00:10:56Let me take a moment to actually
00:10:58work out how I am.
00:11:02And then there was also that thing of,
00:11:04well, if I am living,
00:11:06we have to live.
00:11:22I worked on the Shank and Lute,
00:11:24and I was a butcher.
00:11:28And I remember the UDA coming into the shop
00:11:30on one occasion.
00:11:32They were basically loyalist paramilitaries.
00:11:34And they were asking us to put a poster up
00:11:36to say, this shop no longer
00:11:38sells goods from the Irish Republic.
00:11:40But the irony was that these guys
00:11:42were sitting there drinking pints of Guinness
00:11:44with not a shade of, you know,
00:11:46of hypocrisy about the fact
00:11:48they're drinking probably the Irish Republic's
00:11:50biggest export.
00:11:54And then you had stalls
00:11:56selling counterfeit
00:11:58goods, CDs,
00:12:00and whatever else, you know,
00:12:02and all of that money going to support
00:12:04the war against the IRA.
00:12:06Nobody, nobody saying
00:12:08anything about it.
00:12:10It was just normal life.
00:12:20It was almost as though I was oblivious to what was going on around me.
00:12:22And I think the complacency
00:12:24was dangerous.
00:12:26It was complacency
00:12:28on our part as a family
00:12:30that, you know,
00:12:32it meant
00:12:34that my wife
00:12:36and my father-in-law were
00:12:38working in that fish shop
00:12:40on that day.
00:12:42And if somebody had sat down with my father-in-law
00:12:44to say, Desmond,
00:12:46this is a ticking time bomb
00:12:48where you have this shop,
00:12:50because at some time
00:12:52the IRA are going to come under the road,
00:12:54they're going to attack the UDA,
00:12:56and your shop is going to be in the direct line of fire.
00:13:00The staircase to the UDA headquarters
00:13:02was literally right next to
00:13:04the door of the shop.
00:13:06And it wasn't a secret.
00:13:08People knew that's where the UDA had their headquarters.
00:13:21Having difficulty with a mortgage?
00:13:26Once your mortgage is in place,
00:13:28we will make that all-important phone call
00:13:30from any phone box in the country.
00:13:36Because when it comes to real estate,
00:13:38nobody shifts property quite like we do.
00:13:42I played clubs on each side
00:13:44of the Peace Wall.
00:13:46They sometimes very much laughed in different places.
00:13:48There was no doubt about that.
00:13:50But it was...
00:13:52I don't know.
00:13:54It was...
00:13:56It was exciting.
00:13:58And then...
00:14:00that Saturday...
00:14:02...
00:14:04...
00:14:06...
00:14:08...
00:14:10...
00:14:12...
00:14:14...
00:14:16It was a Saturday.
00:14:18A really,
00:14:20really, really nice day.
00:14:22The sun was shining.
00:14:24It was October,
00:14:26so it was cold, but it was just
00:14:28really, really nice.
00:14:32So I decided
00:14:34it had been such a nice day,
00:14:36I would take Zoe for a spin
00:14:38on my bike.
00:14:40I thought I would do this, and then I would go home
00:14:42and I would watch football focus,
00:14:44which I did every Saturday morning.
00:14:46And we had a VHS recorder,
00:14:48a video recorder.
00:14:50So I asked my
00:14:52wife,
00:14:54who was much more tactical than I was,
00:14:56if she could set the recorder for me,
00:14:58so she did.
00:15:00I remember
00:15:02the last conversation I had with Sharon
00:15:04was to ask her,
00:15:06did you remember to hit the record button
00:15:08on the video for the football?
00:15:10And she says, oh, I forgot.
00:15:12I forgot to hit the...
00:15:14And I says, oh, for...
00:15:16Oh, come on!
00:15:18Oh, I was angry,
00:15:20because I wasn't getting to watch the football,
00:15:22so I says, right, I'll just bugger up my Saturday.
00:15:24So she went off,
00:15:26and I went off,
00:15:28and I did the bike ride.
00:15:58Police, 6th Avenue, 6th Avenue,
00:16:006th Avenue.
00:16:16An IRA bomb in Belfast's Protestant Shankill Road
00:16:18exploded without any warning,
00:16:20killing nine people
00:16:22and injuring another 57.
00:16:24This was mass slaughter
00:16:26exactly as the bombers intended
00:16:28in the middle of the afternoon,
00:16:30in the middle of a busy Protestant area.
00:16:32The IRA said its aim was to kill
00:16:34loyalist paramilitary leaders,
00:16:36but the people here believe
00:16:38that the planting of the bomb
00:16:40showed they didn't care who was killed.
00:16:48The victims include
00:16:50the owner of Frizzell's fish shop
00:16:53and his daughter Sharon.
00:17:14They asked me then to go to the morgue
00:17:16to identify the body,
00:17:18and I couldn't do it.
00:17:20Didn't want to go.
00:17:22So Beth,
00:17:24Sharon's sister, went.
00:17:26I've never even read the coroner's report,
00:17:28never went to the court case.
00:17:30I just don't want to know.
00:17:32I want to think of her
00:17:34as a beautiful young woman.
00:17:36I don't want to think of her in a bomb.
00:17:38I mean, was she intact?
00:17:40Did she have all her limbs?
00:17:42I just don't want to know.
00:17:44Do you know what I mean?
00:17:46I just don't want to know.
00:17:48I'm sorry, I just...
00:17:50Yeah, I'm just...
00:17:52Yeah, um...
00:18:00Can't you walk together
00:18:04And think that it could be better?
00:18:10Can't you walk together
00:18:14And think that it could be better?
00:18:19Can't they be two?
00:18:23Can't they be one?
00:18:27Or till they both agree
00:18:30That he shall have both of them?
00:18:33When I got married,
00:18:35my friend actually said to Sharon
00:18:37to make sure you look after him.
00:18:40When I was the man,
00:18:42I should have been looking after her,
00:18:44but I was like a child when I was married.
00:18:47My wife was very strong.
00:18:51So this woman,
00:18:53who wasn't only my wife and my soul mate,
00:18:55but also the homemaker in our house,
00:18:59the IRA had come onto the road that day
00:19:02and they'd taken it all.
00:19:04They'd taken it all.
00:19:13I was... I was in a rage, really.
00:19:17I mean, I was...
00:19:20You know, the rage never really subsided.
00:19:23And so it became a question then of,
00:19:25well, what do I do with this rage?
00:19:28And then when I'd seen the images
00:19:30of Gerry Adams carrying the coffin
00:19:33of the guy that killed my wife,
00:19:36I directed it at him.
00:19:38The Sinn Féin president, Gerry Adams,
00:19:40helped to carry the coffin of Thomas Begley,
00:19:42the IRA man who was blown up planting the bomb.
00:19:47Thomas Begley was dead,
00:19:49and the other bomber, Sean Kelly, was in prison.
00:19:54And I didn't know who else was involved in the Shankill bomb,
00:19:58but Gerry Adams was given a political cover.
00:20:03He was the president of Sinn Féin.
00:20:05Sinn Féin were the political wing of the IRA.
00:20:08So I suppose, you know, he couldn't really cut them adrift.
00:20:11I think that's very good.
00:20:13Even though he was talking about building peace and reconciliation.
00:20:16We want to see an Ireland which is inclusive.
00:20:18He was still presiding over an organisation
00:20:21that were carrying out attacks against innocent civilians.
00:20:23So it seemed to me that Gerry Adams
00:20:25was speaking out of both sides of his mouth.
00:20:27The peace process in which we are engaged threatens no-one.
00:20:31And sometimes, you know, when I'm in my darkest moments,
00:20:35I come very close to hate, you know?
00:20:50While the SDLP leader, John Hume, has been seriously embarrassed,
00:20:54he's still resisting calls for him to end his dialogue with Sinn Féin.
00:20:58He insists that the murders make it more important
00:21:02for him to continue his search for a peace formula.
00:21:05The purpose of the talks is to get a total cessation of violence.
00:21:10And if I can do it by talking and saving human lives by talking,
00:21:15it's my duty to do so.
00:21:21They came in their thousands,
00:21:23the people of Belfast united in grief.
00:21:32CHANTING
00:21:38We got to the end of that week and we thought,
00:21:40maybe we're through this.
00:21:42You know, maybe the worst thing that's happened this week...
00:21:49..is those poor people dying on the Shankill Road.
00:21:53But, of course, that wasn't the case.
00:21:58That tragedy wasn't the end of the tragedy that week.
00:22:04Greysteel happened a week later.
00:22:07A bar just been sprayed by loyalist paramilitaries in retaliation.
00:22:15UDA gunmen entered the Rising Sun bar in Greysteel
00:22:19and shot dead seven people.
00:22:27Two men came in and said,
00:22:29trick or treat, then sprayed the whole place with bullets.
00:22:43But in between, more people were killed.
00:22:49These are people that are forgotten.
00:22:52These are...
00:22:55..absolute...
00:22:57..devastating human tragedies...
00:23:01..that are just the bit in the middle.
00:23:06The two council workers murdered on Tuesday
00:23:09were buried after a joint service in West Belfast.
00:23:13One of the supervisors said the attack was an attempt
00:23:16to kill as many Catholics as possible.
00:23:19Last night, there was another attempt at mass murder by loyalists.
00:23:23Two men burst into a bar, but their machine gun jammed.
00:23:27Everybody knew something was going to happen after the shank got suited,
00:23:32and even though we felt sympathy for the people in the shank,
00:23:36because there were innocent people that got it too,
00:23:39it doesn't help, because it's all innocent people that's getting it.
00:23:46Last night, two brothers were shot dead in front of their 11-year-old sister.
00:23:51Her birthday party had just finished
00:23:53when two gunmen found her brothers in the living room
00:23:56and shot them both.
00:23:58Nicest lads you could meet, no matter where you'd go.
00:24:02They'd done no harm to nobody.
00:24:07If the same proportion of murders were carried out
00:24:10on the mainland of Britain in relation to the population,
00:24:13we'd have had 1,000 dead in the past eight days.
00:24:16We'd have had 1,000 dead in the past eight days.
00:24:19I think that week helped to force a change.
00:24:47Sometimes you need to stare into the abyss to realise that...
00:24:51that this...
00:24:53this can't... this can't go on.
00:24:57You think it took something like that?
00:24:59It took more than that.
00:25:03It took all the years of it.
00:25:10This was the peace rally in Belfast.
00:25:12It was yet another expression of the yearning for peace.
00:25:17The call for peace was heard at another rally
00:25:20in the wake of last month's massacres.
00:25:23The people of Northern Ireland are delivering a message
00:25:26to the paramilitaries, you know, get off our backs,
00:25:28we don't want you anymore.
00:25:34Enniskillen was gripped by violence six years ago.
00:25:38Today the townsfolk gathered again,
00:25:41a people divided, joining together to call for an end to the killing.
00:25:46I want peace in our country and I want peace for my...
00:25:49for my children and for my grandchildren.
00:25:56Remember you took part in changing history
00:25:59was how people in Stravan heard they should look back on today.
00:26:04I think people have had enough
00:26:06and just want to show that they've had enough.
00:26:08It's been too many young lives lost.
00:26:11And for what?
00:26:13All we want is peace.
00:26:14To live with each other.
00:26:34You had a population that was war weary.
00:26:38I was still very, very much a committed Republican.
00:26:42The British government was still a problem.
00:26:46And their presence in their army in Ireland was still a problem.
00:26:52But as far back as 1981,
00:26:56people in leadership positions were beginning to think,
00:27:01this armed struggle tactic isn't going to work.
00:27:03There was always a hard core of Republicans
00:27:06who hailed out and said, well we're supporting the struggle anyway.
00:27:10But there was a realisation, there was people beginning to think,
00:27:14it's not so sure about it anymore.
00:27:18It's not going to achieve anything.
00:27:22There was a momentum building that politics would be a far better way
00:27:27to deal with the problem.
00:27:29There was a momentum building that politics would be a far better way
00:27:34to bring about a united Ireland.
00:27:39So it seemed to me that it was a clear choice
00:27:43between armed struggle and peace.
00:27:49It was as pure and as simple as that for me.
00:27:52And I went for the peace. I went for peace.
00:28:00After 25 years of violence, the IRA has announced a ceasefire
00:28:05which will start at midnight tonight.
00:28:11The Republican movement hopes that it can now achieve by negotiation
00:28:15what it couldn't get by the gun.
00:28:17But is it truly the beginning of the end of the war here?
00:28:30We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:28:34over the past 25 years,
00:28:37abject and true remorse,
00:28:40the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:28:43will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:28:47as from 12 midnight.
00:28:50We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:28:54over the past 25 years,
00:28:56abject and true remorse,
00:28:59the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:29:02will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:29:06as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:29:09We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:29:13over the past 25 years,
00:29:16abject and true remorse,
00:29:19the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:29:22will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:29:26as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:29:29We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:29:33over the past 25 years,
00:29:36abject and true remorse,
00:29:39the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:29:42will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:29:46as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:29:49We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:29:53over the past 25 years,
00:29:56abject and true remorse,
00:29:59the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:30:02will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:30:06as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:30:09We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:30:13over the past 25 years,
00:30:16abject and true remorse,
00:30:19the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:30:22will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:30:26as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:30:29We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:30:33over the past 25 years,
00:30:36abject and true remorse,
00:30:39the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:30:42will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:30:46as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:30:49We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:30:53over the past 25 years,
00:30:56abject and true remorse,
00:30:59the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:31:02will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:31:06as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:31:09We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:31:13over the past 25 years,
00:31:16abject and true remorse,
00:31:19the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:31:22will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:31:26as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:31:29We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:31:33over the past 25 years,
00:31:36abject and true remorse,
00:31:39the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:31:42will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:31:46as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:31:49We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:31:53over the past 25 years,
00:31:56abject and true remorse,
00:31:59the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:32:02will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:32:06as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:32:09We offer to the loved ones of all innocent victims
00:32:13over the past 25 years,
00:32:16abject and true remorse,
00:32:19the Combined Loyalist Military Command
00:32:22will universally cease all operational hostilities
00:32:26as from 12 midnight tonight.
00:32:56...that he was on,
00:32:58and I basically just asked him a question about the shankle bone.
00:33:03You can actually see him physically take a breath
00:33:06before he answered me.
00:33:10Sinn Féin accepts and realises
00:33:14that all of these actions
00:33:16diminish every single one of us.
00:33:18And we want an end to it.
00:33:20We ourselves have seen our children killed.
00:33:23And we want to see it all ended.
00:33:25You're a victim, are you Alan McBride?
00:33:27I am indeed.
00:33:29Yes.
00:33:31I can only attempt to comprehend
00:33:33the grief that you have been going through.
00:33:36You have no idea what it's like.
00:33:38Well, I think I can try to.
00:33:40You and I and everyone else in this situation,
00:33:42all the people who have buried wives and husbands and children,
00:33:46let us all move forward
00:33:48towards a peaceful situation in our country.
00:33:51Alright, thank you very much for that.
00:33:52Sorry, so many of you want to get through, obviously, six weeks.
00:33:55No, I remember about that.
00:33:57I remember being cut off and being raging
00:34:00by Talkback.
00:34:02They cut me off and they let him have the last word.
00:34:05You know, I'd been phoning Sinn Féin offices
00:34:07for weeks before this
00:34:09and never got through to him.
00:34:11Always telling me he was busy
00:34:13or he was out of the office or he, you know.
00:34:15And then he got through to him.
00:34:17Is that the first time you've spoken to him?
00:34:19Yeah, and then Talkback cut me off
00:34:20because it's coming up to the news.
00:34:22I mean, fucking news.
00:34:25The news could wait two minutes.
00:34:27I mean, I was wanting to ask this man questions.
00:34:30And I'm actually getting annoyed
00:34:34as I watched it and as I think about it
00:34:36and I see his reaction back then.
00:34:41I just remember where I was.
00:34:44I just remember who I was.
00:34:46I remember the anger that I had.
00:34:47I remember the anger that I had.
00:35:09I mean, it was difficult.
00:35:11In those early days it was just difficult.
00:35:18It was just difficult.
00:35:31The history of Northern Ireland
00:35:33has been written in the blood
00:35:35of its children and their parents.
00:35:39The ceasefire turned the page on that history.
00:35:42It must not be allowed to turn back.
00:35:48Let it be our dream.
00:35:50And it's a dream that we will achieve
00:35:52with the powerful assistance
00:35:54of the president and his administration.
00:35:57That dream is that there will be
00:35:59no killing in our streets.
00:36:01Thank you, Mr. President.
00:36:07Blessed are the peacemakers
00:36:10for they shall inherit the earth.
00:36:14Merry Christmas and God bless you all.
00:36:24The main feeling about all of that was
00:36:27can it possibly be real?
00:36:31When the talks began
00:36:33there was a quiet determination
00:36:35to make them work.
00:36:41The British and Irish governments,
00:36:43nationalists, unionists,
00:36:44all round the same negotiating table.
00:36:49There was quite a few false stones
00:36:51and, you know, there was a built-in realism,
00:36:53a built-in pessimism.
00:36:56And then you had,
00:36:58you had the bomb on at Canary Wharf.
00:37:02The IRA's decision to end the ceasefire
00:37:05has put the whole peace process
00:37:07in serious jeopardy.
00:37:09The government's message continues to be
00:37:11no ceasefire, no talks.
00:37:15The explosion ripped through
00:37:17the centre of Manchester
00:37:19injuring around 200 people.
00:37:23So there were still terrible things going on.
00:37:29And that's why it was so stop-start.
00:37:31That's why, you know,
00:37:33a lot of people weren't happy.
00:37:39The mood is unruly and defiant
00:37:41with loyalists causing disruption and trouble.
00:37:45The expectations were very low.
00:37:49And yet,
00:37:51you did have that sense
00:37:53that the right people
00:37:55who could make a deal were there.
00:38:04Terrorism,
00:38:06republican or so-called loyalism
00:38:08is contemptible
00:38:10and unacceptable.
00:38:11I am prepared to meet Sinn Fein
00:38:13provided events on the ground
00:38:15do not make that impossible.
00:38:30An historic agreement
00:38:32for peace in Northern Ireland
00:38:34has been reached within the past few minutes.
00:38:36We can see pictures now
00:38:38from Stormont
00:38:39where the leaders of the eight parties
00:38:41together with the prime ministers
00:38:43of the United Kingdom
00:38:45and the Republic of Ireland
00:38:47are announcing details
00:38:49of an agreement which is intended
00:38:51to end nearly 30 years of conflict
00:38:53and which have cost
00:38:55more than 3,000 lives.
00:39:00I can show you the agreement itself.
00:39:02I've just been handed this copy.
00:39:04This agreement will be going
00:39:06to every house in Northern Ireland
00:39:07so the people can judge for themselves
00:39:09whether this is an agreement
00:39:11which in the referendum
00:39:13they will give their crucial
00:39:15and essential assent to.
00:39:17Do you remember the night
00:39:19that they announced it?
00:39:21Yeah.
00:39:23Yeah, I remember.
00:39:25I was filming a TV show at Shepparton,
00:39:27Shepparton Studios.
00:39:29I was working in England
00:39:31and had gone over to work.
00:39:38But no one
00:39:40in London was really,
00:39:42you know,
00:39:44they thought,
00:39:46well, that's nice.
00:39:48And you're going,
00:39:50yeah, it's lovely.
00:39:52Nobody cared.
00:39:54And they didn't really see
00:39:56this place
00:39:58as in any way relevant
00:40:00to their lives.
00:40:02OK, through our seats
00:40:04we have the Prime Minister
00:40:05OK, through our seats
00:40:07we have tonight's jackpot game.
00:40:09Here we go, guys.
00:40:20I remember going to my dressing room
00:40:22and I just, I was crying.
00:40:24I didn't want to let anybody else know
00:40:26I was crying.
00:40:28I wasn't crying because I was happy.
00:40:32I was crying because of
00:40:33I was crying because of
00:40:38what was lost.
00:40:45Now looking back on it all
00:40:47I realise that
00:40:49all of that loss
00:40:52brought people to a place where
00:40:54they had to make the peace.
00:40:56I couldn't see that at the time.
00:40:58Yeah, but loss is still loss, you know.
00:41:03The agreement proposes changes
00:41:05in the Irish constitution
00:41:07and in British constitutional law
00:41:09to enshrine the principle
00:41:11that it is the people
00:41:13of Northern Ireland
00:41:15who will decide democratically
00:41:17their own future.
00:41:28If this agreement is approved
00:41:30in referendums North and South
00:41:32it offers the chance
00:41:34for a better future.
00:41:37For the first time
00:41:39since the agreement was approved
00:41:41the leader of unionism
00:41:43joined forces for a yes
00:41:45with the leader of nationalism.
00:41:48The details of this agreement
00:41:50are really pretty amazing,
00:41:52aren't they?
00:41:54They're carefully balanced
00:41:55so that if there is a party there
00:41:57something that they can use now
00:41:59to sell this to their followers
00:42:01because all the political leaders
00:42:03will find hardliners
00:42:05in their own causes
00:42:07who will say,
00:42:09you have sold out,
00:42:11you should have got us
00:42:13a better deal than this.
00:42:15But there is something
00:42:17carefully balanced there
00:42:19for everybody,
00:42:21something for the Ulster unionists,
00:42:23something for Sinn Féin.
00:42:25We had to go.
00:42:30The republican movement
00:42:32was my life.
00:42:36You know,
00:42:38the struggle was my life.
00:42:43The agreement states
00:42:45all paramilitary groups
00:42:47will have to decommission
00:42:49illegal arms.
00:42:51It's like putting your hands up,
00:42:53that's the way I was feeling.
00:42:55It's like a surrender,
00:42:57you know.
00:43:00But the more you sort of
00:43:02maybe talk to other republicans
00:43:04and stuff like that,
00:43:06you go away and you think
00:43:08maybe this is the way forward.
00:43:10The war,
00:43:12the bombings and the shooting
00:43:14stops,
00:43:16but the fighting still goes on
00:43:18but in a different approach.
00:43:20You know,
00:43:22we'll still be fighting
00:43:24You're prepared to accept
00:43:26a halfway house to United Ireland.
00:43:28The answer tomorrow
00:43:30from the people of Northern Ireland
00:43:32will be no to Gerry Adams and Norwin,
00:43:34no surrender to the enemies
00:43:36of Ulster.
00:43:38The no camp pushing its message hard.
00:43:40The time has come
00:43:42for the ordinary man
00:43:44in Ulster
00:43:46to give his verdict
00:43:48on this pernicious
00:43:50agreement.
00:43:51Ulster
00:43:53needs to say no
00:43:55and no surrender.
00:44:01The people were asked
00:44:03quite simply to say yes
00:44:05or no to the peace accord
00:44:07and they came out
00:44:09in record numbers.
00:44:11The turnout is estimated
00:44:13to be a massive 80 to 81%.
00:44:15We'll bring you the result
00:44:17in a special programme
00:44:19later this afternoon.
00:44:27We were coming from our holidays
00:44:29with a caravan,
00:44:31a towing caravan
00:44:33and it came on the radio
00:44:35and I remember I was driving
00:44:37and I got out and just
00:44:39busted into tears
00:44:41and cried inconsolably.
00:44:44Yes,
00:44:4671.12%.
00:44:51Fucking erupted like.
00:44:53Much to the dismay
00:44:55of my children like.
00:44:57He's probably thought,
00:44:59now daddy has lost
00:45:01his fucking mind altogether.
00:45:03We suspected he was
00:45:05sort of on the edge
00:45:07but now he's finally flipped.
00:45:09There was hope,
00:45:11finally there was hope.
00:45:13I do not have all the answers
00:45:15but I know that the more
00:45:17people that learn
00:45:19that talking's better
00:45:21can be a positive thing.
00:45:23On this extraordinary day
00:45:25people took time off
00:45:27to witness history being made.
00:45:29Yes, 71%.
00:45:35I just remember that day
00:45:37just thinking,
00:45:39oh my god,
00:45:41there's an end coming to this.
00:45:43We finally got to somewhere
00:45:45and let me tell you
00:45:47the shouting and the cheering
00:45:49and the yoo-hooing
00:45:51that was like this feeling
00:45:53of euphoria.
00:46:07Yes, campaigners taunted
00:46:09the unionists who had spearheaded
00:46:11the No campaign
00:46:13but the DUP leader Ian Paisley
00:46:15insisted the majority of unionists
00:46:17were on his side.
00:46:22I mean, I honestly,
00:46:24I just,
00:46:26I wouldn't,
00:46:28I wasn't in favour of,
00:46:30you know, no.
00:46:33No.
00:46:40It's just,
00:46:42to me it's just a horrible time.
00:46:44It was a horrible time,
00:46:46you know,
00:46:48and it was a fearful time
00:46:49because you didn't know
00:46:51what was going to happen.
00:46:58The final batch of paramilitary prisoners
00:47:00has been released from the Mays prison
00:47:02as part of the Good Friday peace agreement.
00:47:05They include loyalist gunmen
00:47:07involved in the murder of seven people
00:47:09in a pub at Greysteel.
00:47:15I just felt like
00:47:17letting prisoners out
00:47:19that had caused so much harm
00:47:21and hurt and pain
00:47:23and loss,
00:47:25you know,
00:47:27to do what?
00:47:29You know, run the streets again?
00:47:31Terrorise people again?
00:47:33I mean, it can't be peace at any cost,
00:47:35you know,
00:47:37because then it's not really peace.
00:47:4346 IRA prisoners were released,
00:47:45including Sean Kelly.
00:47:47He was one of two men
00:47:49who was shot and killed
00:47:51in a massive bomb in a fish shop
00:47:53on the Shankill Road in Belfast.
00:47:56Like many of the other
00:47:58mass murderers to be freed early,
00:48:00he served only a fraction
00:48:02of his life sentence.
00:48:14What's weird for you,
00:48:16I guess, is that Sean Kelly
00:48:17has never been arrested.
00:48:19I have done.
00:48:21Have you?
00:48:23Yeah, several times.
00:48:25Yeah,
00:48:27yeah,
00:48:29and it has never been
00:48:31a pleasant experience,
00:48:33to be honest with you.
00:48:35And when I've seen him,
00:48:37I've just turned and walked away.
00:48:39And I can remember
00:48:41the first time it happened,
00:48:43it was when the new Asda
00:48:45opened at Yorkgate,
00:48:47and I remember,
00:48:49a second later,
00:48:51being ashamed of myself
00:48:53for walking away,
00:48:55because I didn't do anything.
00:48:57My wife was murdered by this guy,
00:48:59and it was him
00:49:01that should have been walking away.
00:49:03And I suppose it was just a fact
00:49:05that he could live a life,
00:49:07he could live an ordinary life,
00:49:09and of course,
00:49:11I mean, of course he's going
00:49:13to live an ordinary life.
00:49:15He's released from prison,
00:49:17so all those things
00:49:19were going through my head,
00:49:21all those things
00:49:23were going through my head.
00:49:28In spite of the fact
00:49:30that these people
00:49:32were released from prison early,
00:49:34we need to give our children
00:49:36a fighting chance
00:49:38of making a life
00:49:40for themselves here,
00:49:42and if we don't,
00:49:44we're just subjecting
00:49:45to the consequences.
00:49:55And I didn't want
00:49:57any other family
00:49:59to go through any of that.
00:50:22I really only have
00:50:24two points to make today.
00:50:26The first is,
00:50:28I want to thank
00:50:30the people
00:50:32of the United States
00:50:34and the people
00:50:36of the United States
00:50:38and the people
00:50:40of the United States
00:50:42and the people
00:50:43of the United States
00:50:45and the people
00:50:47of the United States
00:50:48I would like to make today.
00:50:50The first is,
00:50:52you have come a long way
00:50:54since 1995
00:50:57when I was here
00:50:58the last time.
00:51:04The second point
00:51:05I want to make to you
00:51:07is that while you
00:51:08have come a very long way,
00:51:10you and I know
00:51:11concerns and fears and frustrations.
00:51:21Old summer, it's gone on, according to the Belfast police commander,
00:51:25the most intense and sustained disturbances in 20 years.
00:51:31The peace holds, but the old hatreds are never far away.
00:51:41I remember going to a conference, and it said, peace is tough.
00:51:47And I remember thinking, peace is tough?
00:51:51Because to me, your peace should be easy.
00:51:54All right, there? What's the crack?
00:51:57Yeah, that'll do, sir.
00:52:01It was only at that point in time, around 2001,
00:52:05that I realised that peace is tough.
00:52:08It was only at that point in time, around 2001,
00:52:12that I began to think about my story in the context of forgiveness.
00:52:18Called me naive, called me whatever, but it's worked for me.
00:52:23TRAIN WHISTLE BLOWS
00:52:35And the weeks and months that followed Police Sunday,
00:52:38everybody was angry.
00:52:43I was at primary school.
00:52:46And there was an army lookout post
00:52:50positioned at the bottom of the school playground.
00:52:55And as I ran past it, I was about 10 feet away from it.
00:53:00A soldier fired a rubber bullet.
00:53:03It hit me here in the bridge of the nose.
00:53:10I woke up in the ambulance.
00:53:13I can remember my daddy was holding my hand.
00:53:15He kept saying, you'll be all right, Richard, you'll be OK.
00:53:18And then that was me. I went to hospital.
00:53:26I thought it was the bandages
00:53:29that were preventing me from seeing, you know, the bandages on my eyes.
00:53:34But it was about a month after I was shot,
00:53:38I was out at home,
00:53:40and my brother Noel said to me, do you know what has happened?
00:53:43And I said, yes, I knew I was shot.
00:53:45He said, do you know what damage was done?
00:53:47And I said, no.
00:53:49And that's when he told me that I'd be blamed for the rest of my life.
00:53:53And to be honest, I took it my straight that day.
00:53:57Until I went to bed that night.
00:53:59And when I was in bed that night, I cried.
00:54:05And I cried because I realised for the first time
00:54:08that I was never going to see my mammy and daddy again.
00:54:19I was shot with a rubber bullet.
00:54:21How did it happen?
00:54:23I was coming up from school, up a field, beside the school.
00:54:26I got 54 stitches in the face.
00:54:29And I was only in a hospital for two weeks.
00:54:32He was just standing beside the gunman.
00:54:34When I was shot, the gunman was about...
00:54:37Just from here to me.
00:54:43I used to think, there's no way that a soldier sat out to blame me.
00:54:50When I found out his name, I wrote to him.
00:54:54I said, I would love to meet you sometime.
00:54:57You know, when I did meet him, it was...
00:55:02It was kind of nerve-wracking, you know.
00:55:06And, um...
00:55:09You know...
00:55:12When me and Charles got talking, I said to him,
00:55:17Look, Charles, I'm not here to be confrontated with you.
00:55:22Look, Charles, I'm not here to be confrontational.
00:55:27I'm here to let you know that I forgive you.
00:55:31And Charles thanked me for that, and he said,
00:55:33Well, Richard...
00:55:36You know...
00:55:40When I made the decision to fire the rubber bullet,
00:55:42I felt I made it for the right reasons.
00:55:47He said that he felt justified.
00:55:50And that he never felt guilty.
00:55:54And...
00:55:57I remember thinking, this is not who I wanted it to be.
00:56:02I wanted it just to be a bit more sort of,
00:56:05I suppose, like mulls and boons, you know, more nicer than this.
00:56:10I didn't think it was achieving what I envisaged.
00:56:15But I...
00:56:18You know...
00:56:22I accepted it.
00:56:33If we want reconciliation,
00:56:36you can't meet the person that you would like to meet.
00:56:40You've got to meet them for who they are.
00:56:44Yes, Charles.
00:56:45You all right?
00:56:46Oh, very well.
00:56:47Lots of crack?
00:56:48Yeah.
00:56:49Beautiful day. The sun is shining.
00:56:51I was going to say, the sun always shines when you're here, Charles.
00:56:53Oh, that's true.
00:56:56I can nail Charles to a cross.
00:57:01And it's not going to make one difference to my life.
00:57:05It's not going to give me back.
00:57:07It's not going to give me back my eyesight.
00:57:10And it's not going to make me any happier.
00:57:12I appreciate that. It's great.
00:57:14You're always very good like that.
00:57:17We've got to try and see each other at least once a year.
00:57:19That's it. All right.
00:57:21But what has made me happy
00:57:24is beginning to try and find a way
00:57:28that me and Charles could become friends.
00:57:33Yeah, all right. Here we go.
00:57:35Yeah, all right. Here we go.
00:57:37This is us now walking onto the school football pitch.
00:57:40Yeah.
00:57:42So this is the area here where I was when I was shot.
00:57:46And Charles would have been down.
00:57:47There would have been a singer down there somewhere.
00:57:49Yeah.
00:57:51We're as close as we're going to get to where you and I first met.
00:57:54Yes, indeed.
00:57:55Jesus.
00:57:56We wouldn't get any closer.
00:57:58No.
00:57:59Yeah.
00:58:00Yeah.
00:58:01God.
00:58:02That's some crack.
00:58:03Is it difficult for you, Charles, coming to this spot?
00:58:05No, not at all. No.
00:58:07Not in the slightest.
00:58:08No.
00:58:09No.
00:58:10It's where it happened and that's a fact.
00:58:14That's the reality.
00:58:16Yeah.
00:58:17Not difficult at all.
00:58:19No.
00:58:23Yeah.
00:58:26No.
00:58:34Charles, all right?
00:58:35Yeah, yeah. I'm absolutely fine.
00:58:47The police station was in one of the toughest areas.
00:58:52Some of the users got hold of a scaffolding pole
00:58:55and they were actually trying to sort of skewer the soldier inside.
00:59:00I then fired a rubber bullet at them.
00:59:05As I fired it, Richard came straight across in front.
00:59:11The sadness and the regret and wishing I'd not done it,
00:59:16that stayed with me for years.
00:59:22But the reason I didn't apologise was if I'm saying sorry,
00:59:28I therefore accept guilt that my intention was to cause
00:59:34a terrible trauma, which it never was.
00:59:37Therefore, there's no point in saying sorry.
00:59:44It's quite a position.
00:59:45Yeah.
00:59:46But then I thought, you know, OK, look at it another way,
00:59:50say sorry.
00:59:52So I did.
00:59:53I think the bottom line is incredibly simple.
00:59:57Out of something that was absolutely horrific, goodness has come.
01:00:04But then, as I said before, and I say it any time,
01:00:07Richard is a truly amazing man in my book.
01:00:14Do you want to walk towards the car?
01:00:15Yeah.
01:00:16Yeah, you go that way.
01:00:17Walk towards the car, Charles?
01:00:18Yeah, yeah.
01:00:19Yeah.
01:00:21It's a blind lead and a blind hit, eh, Charles? Come on.
01:00:27You know, some people said to me that I shouldn't have met him
01:00:31until they apologised.
01:00:33If I had have done that,
01:00:36then me and Charles's journey would have never begun.
01:00:41But finding out who he was does change everything.
01:00:46He's no longer a soldier.
01:00:48He's a human being.
01:00:50He's a father.
01:00:52He's a grandfather.
01:00:54You know, it makes a person very real.
01:00:58And I think that's a good thing.
01:01:12Peace is tough.
01:01:15But we've got to keep working at it.
01:01:21You never know where it's going to lead to.
01:01:28I just feel really angry that so many people
01:01:32in this part of Ireland
01:01:35had to suffer the shit that they did.
01:01:39Should it be Catholic, Protestant,
01:01:42policemen, soldiers,
01:01:44everything in between?
01:01:47I don't know.
01:01:49I don't know.
01:01:51I don't know.
01:01:53I don't know.
01:01:55I don't know.
01:01:58I don't know.
01:02:00And I'm not a victim of the troubles.
01:02:04I survived the fucking troubles
01:02:06and I survived all the shit that was going with it.
01:02:11We all have an anus for a wee bit of change
01:02:14and some have an anus for a big bit of change.
01:02:22And it's astonishing what you can learn
01:02:24when you just open your ears
01:02:26and you drop the guard a wee bit
01:02:30and let the old style of thinking go.
01:02:51When I think about it,
01:02:52there's just been so much.
01:02:54And I think sometimes you just need to take a step back
01:02:57and think about all the twists and turns, you know.
01:03:04And I'm your grandfather.
01:03:13Zoe turned 30 last year.
01:03:18Sian was killed when she was 29.
01:03:21And I think I realised for the first time
01:03:24just how young Sian was when she was killed.
01:03:27Yeah.
01:03:29You OK, babe?
01:03:31OK.
01:03:33But it would do nobody any good
01:03:38if I was to hold on to the hurt and the pain
01:03:41and the anger.
01:03:43Look.
01:03:45Look at the ducks.
01:03:47What's a duck doing?
01:03:49And, you know, I desperately want
01:03:52the latter years of my life
01:03:55to be better than the former years.
01:04:00Growing up in a divided society,
01:04:03growing up with hostility,
01:04:06growing up with a fear that your father could be shot dead,
01:04:11growing up that there are certain roads
01:04:15that you can't walk down
01:04:16because you might be attacked.
01:04:22Who wants to live like that, you know?
01:04:26Nobody.
01:04:28Nobody.
01:04:47To watch exclusive interviews about the making of this series,
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