Aiteraz Hai | Aniqa Nisar | ARY News | 27th September 2024
#pti #imrankhan #maulanafazalurehman #opposition #pmlngovt #constitutionalamendments #constitutionalcourt #aniqanisar #Aitrazhai
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Aniqa Nisar
Guests:
- Senator Humayun Mohmand PTI
- Rana Ihsaan Afzal Khan PMLN
- Senator Kamran Murtaza JUIF
- Murtaza Wahab (Karachi Mayor)
Constitutional Amendments | Govt vs Opposition | Maulana Fazal ur Rehman | Aniqa Nisar Analysis
Constitutional Amendments | Government Ready to Talk with Opposition ? | Rana Ahsan Afzal Analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Aniqa Nisar
Guests:
- Senator Humayun Mohmand PTI
- Rana Ihsaan Afzal Khan PMLN
- Senator Kamran Murtaza JUIF
- Murtaza Wahab (Karachi Mayor)
Constitutional Amendments | Govt vs Opposition | Maulana Fazal ur Rehman | Aniqa Nisar Analysis
Constitutional Amendments | Government Ready to Talk with Opposition ? | Rana Ahsan Afzal Analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00In the name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful.
00:10As-Salaam-Alaikum.
00:11You are watching the program, As-Salaam-Alaikum.
00:13Ladies and gentlemen, the political situation is once again in turmoil.
00:16The break that Maulana Sahab took from all these political issues,
00:20in which he had to talk to legal experts,
00:24to negotiate, to ask for concessions,
00:26to go to Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf or to go to the government,
00:29after all these decisions, Maulana Sahab, after the break,
00:32has once again started the activity.
00:34And this means that once again,
00:36there has been an uproar regarding Aimi Tarameen.
00:40Recently, Maulana Sahab has met some journalists.
00:45And after meeting the journalists,
00:47the senior journalists say that Maulana Sahab,
00:50basically, or in principle,
00:52agrees with Aimi Tarameen.
00:55And after that, there was an uproar in the ranks of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf.
00:59Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf met Maulana Sahab.
01:02And after meeting Maulana Sahab,
01:04what did Salman Akram Raja Sahab say?
01:06And what does he think,
01:08whether Maulana Sahab is ready or not?
01:10Listen.
01:12There have been rumours in the press for the past few days
01:15that Maulana Sahab has made a decision,
01:17that Maulana Sahab will support the government.
01:19There is nothing like that.
01:21Today, there was a very good discussion.
01:23We have also seen the same issues.
01:25In the future, we have formed a committee
01:27which will sit together and look at these issues.
01:30But Maulana Sahab is absolutely clear in his thinking.
01:34Okay, Salman Akram Raja Sahab is saying that Maulana Sahab is absolutely clear.
01:39But, at the same time, note one more thing.
01:42The last time when Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf and JUI met,
01:46the press conference was one in which JUI was present
01:52and Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf was also present.
01:55Maulana Sahab meets at his house.
01:57Maulana Sahab is not a part of the Jamaat.
01:59So, this question was definitely there.
02:01And after that, the answer to this question was also given
02:04by Kamran Murtaza Sahab.
02:06Who has shown the possibility of neither being here nor there.
02:11Listen.
02:23Okay, what you have heard is that
02:26neither the issues have been resolved from here nor from there.
02:28But, Ghafoor Haidari Sahab has clarified it a little more.
02:31That the government is bringing reforms.
02:33Now, it is the responsibility of the government to contact the opposition.
02:37Listen.
02:39That the government is bringing reforms.
02:42Now, it is the responsibility of the government to contact the opposition.
02:47The draft was brought to us.
02:49We said that we do not agree with this.
02:52After that, the government also became silent.
02:54And now see when the Tehreek-e-Insaf meets again.
02:58Okay, before this, JUI had said that there should be overall consensus.
03:03And within the overall consensus, the government threw this ball
03:06in Maulana Sahab's court that Maulana Sahab will talk to the opposition.
03:09Atta Tarar Sahab had said earlier that Maulana Sahab should talk to the opposition.
03:15When this came up, then from Maulana Sahab's side,
03:17from the side of Maulana Sahab's Jamaat,
03:19this ball was thrown back in the court of the government
03:21that you talk and convince the opposition.
03:23On the other hand, now after that amendment,
03:27special sessions have also become an issue at this time.
03:30Because a history of special sessions is also going on.
03:33You know that the Supreme Court's decision on the issue of special sessions came.
03:36The decision was divided on July 12.
03:39But the majority judges clearly said that
03:41the special sessions are theirs in the Parliament of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf.
03:46The decision was given by the 13th Rukni Bench.
03:48So after that, on August 7, the Election Commission of Pakistan says
03:51that the Supreme Court had filed a petition for special sessions.
03:57But in it, it was stated that the Supreme Court should take back the decision of the special sessions on July 12.
04:03And there were details on it.
04:05Not just that, on September 14, after that, in the case of special sessions,
04:09the Supreme Court issued an explanatory order for the decision of its majority bench.
04:16In which it was said that this is very evident,
04:18the decision of the Supreme Court is very clear,
04:20there should be no confusion in it.
04:22Then, on September 23, the Supreme Court of Pakistan
04:27said in detail about the case of special sessions of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf
04:32that the decision of the Election Commission on 1st March is contrary to the law.
04:39The decision of the ECP on 1st March.
04:42Interestingly, during this time, the Speaker of the National Assembly also wrote to the ECP
04:48that because the law has been made and it will be put in retrospect,
04:52the decision of the Supreme Court will be less and the law will be more.
04:58Now, this tug of war is going on.
05:00In this same tug of war, on September 27, i.e. today,
05:04the Supreme Court's explanatory decision on the case of special sessions has been challenged by the ECP.
05:12Now, this tug of war is also going on here.
05:14So, according to this, it is also being thought that
05:18is it possible that in order to nullify the number of Maulana's Jamaat,
05:23this issue of special sessions is being brought forward.
05:26So, to talk about this tug of war,
05:29we have with us in the first segment, Rana Ahsan Abdul Sahib,
05:32the leader of Pakistan Muslim League Noon.
05:34Thank you very much, Rana Sahib, for joining us.
05:36Senator Humayun Muhammad, the leader of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf,
05:39will also be with us.
05:40Thank you to him as well.
05:41Thank you very much.
05:42Rana Sahib, first of all, let's talk to you.
05:44In fact, Senator Humayun is also with us.
05:46Rana Sahib, starting from you,
05:49talking to Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf or talking to the opposition,
05:53which is a major part of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf,
05:55whether they are PTI or SIC,
05:57have you made any intention to talk to them?
05:59Because JUI is now expecting from you that this work will be done by the government
06:04because the government itself is bringing the amendment.
06:07In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
06:09I have been in contact with JUIF,
06:12and not only with us,
06:14but also with Bilawal Bhutto Sahib and the People's Party.
06:18As far as talking to PTI is concerned,
06:21or with the Sunni Unity Council,
06:23in that way,
06:25there was no official contact there,
06:27but the committee that has been formed in Parliament,
06:29there is definitely a forum,
06:31there has been a discussion,
06:32but not at the level that
06:34there is a detailed discussion on the amendment.
06:37But it is certain that
06:39the stance of PTI
06:41or all the people with this community
06:43is very clear,
06:45that they are not interested in any kind of amendment,
06:50and they also do not intend to sit with us,
06:54but I would like to clarify one thing here,
06:57that until two-thirds are not there,
07:00this government is thinking of not tabling it.
07:04Right now, we are moving towards a larger consensus,
07:07where you can see that
07:09Azam Nazeer Tariq Sahib is also going to the bars
07:12and discussing the amendment,
07:14and in the same way, Bilawal Sahib is also doing this work.
07:17But Mr. Rana,
07:19I am sorry I am cutting you short,
07:21but larger consensus,
07:23without including PTI,
07:24larger consensus will not be understood.
07:26You can include Mukhla,
07:28you can include journalists,
07:29you can include anyone,
07:31but if you do not include the communities present in the parliament,
07:35then that larger consensus will not be considered.
07:37At 8 o'clock in the show,
07:39Mr. Salman Akram said
07:41that the intellectual addition in the amendment
07:48Pakistan is ready to implement,
07:50but because it does not agree with the parliament,
07:52it will not be included.
07:53So is that intellectual addition
07:55that you are ready to take from PTI or not?
07:58First of all, the community should decide
08:01whether they want to sit with the government or not.
08:04So far, their attitude is absolutely clear
08:07that they do not want to sit with the government.
08:09But the government absolutely needs to engage them.
08:13But if they have not done it so far,
08:16then the major reason for this is
08:18that they do not have the attitude to sit with the government.
08:21You will not even reach out to them
08:23because their attitude is bad,
08:25their failure is with them,
08:27your action is with you.
08:29Are you planning to contact or get in touch with them or not?
08:33Officially, no such plan has been made yet
08:36to sit with them on the meme.
08:39Or there should be a time
08:41when they sit together from their side too.
08:44But this can definitely be thought about.
08:48But no such step has been taken by the government yet.
08:53Got your point.
08:54Senator Humayun Mohan,
08:56has PTI been implemented by Maulana or directly?
09:00In any kind of meme,
09:02addition, subtraction,
09:04like Salman Akram Raj said
09:06that intellectual addition can be done,
09:09but legally, legislatively,
09:11we will not be a part of it.
09:13If they are ready to do intellectual addition,
09:16then should the government contact PTI?
09:20Unfortunately, they are not doing it yet.
09:22But if they do,
09:23will PTI welcome it
09:25or outrightly reject it?
09:30Bismillah hir rahman ir raheem,
09:32hiya ka nabudu, hiya ka nastahi.
09:34Look, what I have understood,
09:36the meaning of intellectual addition is
09:39that the professionals,
09:42what is bad or not,
09:45that thing as a lawyer,
09:47as a constitutional,
09:49there are some experts,
09:51but give them,
09:52because we have good lawyers,
09:54more educated lawyers,
09:56so they can help them.
09:58As a political party.
10:00Look, it is a simple thing.
10:02I have a question.
10:03It is a simple thing.
10:04In a constitution,
10:06basic fundamentals,
10:08it is the way of running this country,
10:11it is the method,
10:12it is manual.
10:13We want to put basic changes in it.
10:16Instead of petrol,
10:18we will put kerosene oil in it.
10:21Now we will have to see
10:23that if two-thirds majority,
10:25means three out of five passengers,
10:27say yes, put it in it,
10:29then you will put it in it.
10:31No, you will not.
10:32After that, you will see everything.
10:34You will call people,
10:35you will bring consensus on it.
10:37Someone will say,
10:38you have to change the engine in it,
10:40you have to do something.
10:41In the end, you will bring everything
10:43as a whole.
10:45In the history of Pakistan,
10:47three or four constitutions have come,
10:49which were single-handedly or bulldozed,
10:52all of them failed.
10:54Then a constitution was made in 1973,
10:57which was made with overall consensus.
11:03Now you have to bring small changes in it,
11:05but when you have to bring big changes,
11:07for example,
11:08you want to bring a big change in it,
11:10I don't know if you call it a constitution
11:13or a constitution,
11:15or you want to bring a constitution,
11:17its implications are not small.
11:19Now in one program,
11:21Mr. Azad…
11:23Mr. Senator,
11:24I am sorry I am cutting you short,
11:26but on this constitution,
11:28it has been heard that
11:30it is Mr. Maulana's consensus,
11:32and Mr. Maulana does not consider it bad.
11:34In many countries,
11:36we have such examples of constitutions.
11:41It may be a question of methodology,
11:43as to how to bring in the Chief Justice.
11:46But on this court,
11:48as a court,
11:49Mr. Maulana has consensus.
11:51Now what will PTI do?
11:53Because after the meetings with the journalists,
11:56the news that was coming out,
11:58after that,
11:59there was an uproar in PTI,
12:01and after that,
12:02there were no meetings.
12:03So has PTI been satisfied
12:05that Mr. Maulana will not be a part
12:07of such minor amendments?
12:08And if it happens,
12:09after Mr. Kamran Murtaza's statement,
12:11what do you think about that?
12:15Look, I think that
12:16Mr. Maulana will not go
12:18in principle with minor amendments.
12:21He will not go in principle.
12:23Whether he agrees or not,
12:25he will not go in principle.
12:27Look, it is not that
12:29there should be a minor court.
12:31If you look at the total,
12:33there are 147, 150 cases,
12:35which are minor cases,
12:37which are pending.
12:39You will change the whole system for that.
12:41There will be an implication of that system.
12:43You must make it.
12:45Make it under the Supreme Court.
12:48Don't take it above the Supreme Court.
12:51Let the Supreme Court be the Supreme Court.
12:53This is the same in America.
12:55The Constitutional Court in America
12:57is the Supreme Court of USA.
13:01Why not simultaneously or parallel?
13:03Why under or above?
13:05Why not parallel?
13:35Watch your point, Senator.
13:45Watch your point, Senator.
13:47Watch your point.
13:49Rana Ahsan.
13:53Rana Ahsan.
13:59This is a valid point.
14:01Both the courts should start competing.
14:03And the same question arises.
14:05Has Mr. Maulana agreed to this?
14:07And on what points did he not agree?
14:09And what was the suggestion
14:11that was given in the Constitution
14:13or in the Working Paper
14:15or whatever you want to call it.
14:17What did he cut from it and what did he keep?
14:19Look, it is not a matter of competition.
14:21If it is a matter of parallel cases,
14:23if it is a matter of 63A,
14:25how will it compete with civil matters?
14:27It will not.
14:29There is a civil court that will look at
14:31a matter of 63A and a matter of 63A.
14:33And it will be a specialised court.
14:35So, to say that it will be parallel
14:37will not be parallel.
14:39Its jurisdiction will be different.
14:41It will look at a matter of 63A
14:43and a civil matter.
14:45So, it will not be a matter of competition.
14:47There is a confusion here.
14:49If there is a matter,
14:51a matter of the public,
14:53a case of the public,
14:55but it also includes a matter of 63A,
14:57will the Supreme Court listen to it?
14:59Look, the matter of 63A
15:01will be heard by the Supreme Court.
15:03But look,
15:05No, but this is a case of the public.
15:07It is a case of a common citizen.
15:09No, so the matter of 63A
15:11will be referred there
15:13and either there will be no clarity in it.
15:15If there is clarity,
15:17then they will decide according to that clarity.
15:19And if there is no clarity,
15:21then the matter of 63A
15:23will be settled by the Supreme Court.
15:25And the Supreme Court
15:27will decide.
15:29Absolutely, because I am superior.
15:31Look, whatever happens,
15:33it will happen with consensus.
15:35It will not happen without consensus.
15:37And if there is no consensus,
15:39then it will not happen.
15:41Thank you very much.
15:43Thank you very much for joining me in the program.
15:45With this, we will go towards the break.
15:47After the break, Mr. Murtaza Wahab
15:49will also be with us.
15:51Mr. Kamran Murtaza will also be with us.
15:53See you after the break.
15:55Welcome back after the break.
15:57Pakistan People's Party.
15:59Mr. Murtaza Wahab is with us.
16:01Mr. Murtaza Wahab is a
16:03mayor of Karachi.
16:05But remember that
16:07Mr. Murtaza Wahab has
16:09a very important task at this time.
16:11And that task is that
16:13what Bilawal Bhutto Zarwari is saying
16:15that the court will be closed.
16:17Basically,
16:19he has to convince the JUI.
16:21And with the JUI,
16:23Mr. Murtaza Wahab has to
16:25decide on the
16:27black sheet and nitty gritties.
16:29And he is present in Islamabad at this time.
16:31Welcome to the capital of the
16:33country, Mr. Murtaza Wahab.
16:35It's a pleasure having you
16:37in the program as well.
16:39Thank you. Thank you so much.
16:41I have heard that you have an important meeting.
16:43And in this important meeting,
16:45some things are going to be decided.
16:47Please tell us about it.
16:49As all of you know,
16:51we had a meeting with Maulana Fazlur Rehman
16:53last week.
16:55The decision was that both the political parties
16:57will work on their own draft.
16:59And then the political leaders
17:01can sit down and finalize the draft.
17:03So, today,
17:05we will meet at night.
17:07Maulana's team
17:09will meet.
17:11And the presentation will be shared
17:13with your friends.
17:15Mr. Murtaza Wahab,
17:17what is the discussion
17:19about?
17:21On one hand, it is said that
17:23Mr. Murtaza Wahab is agreed
17:25with the Constitutional Court.
17:27He has no problem with that.
17:29But he is not agreed
17:31with the extension of judges.
17:33What are the other things
17:35that he is agreed with?
17:37And what are the other things
17:39that need to be discussed
17:41in a clean and neat form?
17:43We will get to know about
17:45his reservations,
17:47his opinion on this.
17:49But I am glad you have highlighted
17:51that the people's party's
17:53perspective, Mr. Bilawal's perspective
17:55from day one,
17:57is regarding the creation of
17:59Constitutional Courts.
18:01And you yourself said that
18:03Maulana Fazlur Rehman himself
18:05agrees with this opinion.
18:07He has no objection to this in principle.
18:09So, I understand the larger perspective
18:11of the political leaders,
18:13the leadership,
18:15and their understanding
18:17of how to shape up
18:19the Constitution.
18:21How will it be written?
18:23All these things need to be decided.
18:25A little while ago,
18:27when Senator Humayun Mohammed
18:29joined the program,
18:31he was saying that if
18:33a Constitutional Court is formed
18:35and there is a Supreme Court on one side
18:37and there is a PTI general question
18:39on the other side,
18:41this will happen simultaneously
18:43because this will be a tug-of-war
18:45between the two sides.
18:47Instead of Parliament vs. Supreme Court,
18:49it will be Constitutional Court vs. Supreme Court.
18:51How will it be?
18:53Look, the people who breed
18:55on conflict,
18:57they always try to
18:59raise the status quo of conflict
19:01on everything.
19:03Unfortunately, you have seen
19:05that if you look at the past of PTI,
19:07I would like to say with great respect
19:09that it is the same
19:11and they try to spread
19:13the same conflict.
19:15When they are in opposition
19:17and when they unfortunately
19:19come to power,
19:21their opinion and thinking
19:23does not change.
19:25I believe and I think
19:27every Pakistani should believe
19:29that whatever institution it is,
19:31it has to operate
19:33according to the law.
19:35According to the law,
19:37it is the right of the Parliament
19:39and it is the duty
19:41of the Parliamentarians
19:43to implement
19:45the law
19:47and to decide
19:49on the cases.
19:51There is no
19:53personal conflict here.
19:55We are trying to reform
19:57and make the system easier.
19:59Everyone in this country
20:01is in agreement
20:03that the system
20:05needs to be reformed.
20:07Who will bail the cat?
20:09Unfortunately,
20:11there is always
20:13a factor
20:15that tries
20:17to stop
20:19those people.
20:21I think
20:23it is necessary
20:25to address
20:27this major issue
20:29in this country
20:31by acting responsibly
20:33to the Parliamentarians
20:35because the Parliament
20:37is initiating
20:39this issue.
20:41I hope that
20:43by solving these issues
20:45politically,
20:47we will pass a law
20:49that will be
20:51in accordance with the
20:53dignity of the court
20:55and will give the right
20:57of a common man
20:59to get cheap and standard
21:01foreign justice.
21:03Do you expect
21:05a working paper
21:07from the People's Party?
21:09Do you expect
21:11a working paper
21:13from the JUI?
21:15Do you expect
21:17a working paper
21:19from the JUI?
21:21Anika,
21:23the People's Party
21:25has proposed
21:27a constitutional court
21:29and we have been
21:31working on it.
21:33I am sure
21:35the JUI has
21:37prepared for it
21:39and we will be able
21:41to move forward.
21:43As far as 63A is concerned,
21:45there are 3-4 things.
21:47I believe that
21:49when 63A
21:51was introduced
21:53in the 18th amendment,
21:55it stated that
21:57if you do not follow
21:59the party policy
22:01in 3 situations,
22:03be it the Finance Act,
22:05the Constitutional Amendment
22:07and the Vote of Confidence,
22:09you will be punished
22:11in the form of
22:13being de-seated.
22:15In the case of the Punjab Assembly,
22:17unfortunately,
22:19the Supreme Court's decision
22:21changed the words
22:23of 63A
22:25and
22:27they decided
22:29that not only will he be punished,
22:31but his vote
22:33will not be counted.
22:35They have inserted
22:37a clause into the Constitution
22:39which I believe
22:41according to Article 238
22:43is not the right of any judge
22:45to amend the constitution
22:47or to change the words of the constitution.
22:49This right, this right
22:51is purely and exclusively
22:53of the Parliament of Pakistan.
22:55And if they have
22:57done such a thing,
22:59there are two ways
23:01to rectify it.
23:03Either you amend the constitution
23:05with two-thirds majority
23:07so that you can address
23:09the matter
23:11or you can address the matter
23:13through a second reading.
23:15I believe that the government
23:17is considering both options.
23:19On 30th, the second reading
23:21has also been fixed
23:23Mr. Murtaza,
23:25I have heard that
23:27even without the JUI,
23:29votes have been counted
23:31in the National Assembly.
23:33Is that correct?
23:35You have a better response
23:37than the government.
23:39How can the government run
23:41without you, Mr. Murtaza?
23:43I am not a part of the government
23:45nor is my political party a part of the government.
23:47You can ask the Parliamentary Minister.
23:49But I am fairly confident
23:51that the government
23:53is working on these issues
23:55and the numbers are available.
23:57We are also very hopeful
23:59because Maulana has spoken
24:01very positively.
24:03He agrees with this concept.
24:05We are very hopeful
24:07that Maulana will also support this.
24:09Maulana is also supporting
24:11the amendment in section 63A.
24:13Should I tell you, Anika?
24:15Even if you ask
24:17Maulana,
24:19even if you ask his lawyer,
24:21Mr. Kamran Murtaza,
24:23Mr. Kamran himself said
24:25that the Supreme Court's decision
24:27is wrong.
24:29We need to decide
24:31that if we all
24:33agree that the Supreme Court
24:35has effectively amended
24:37the Constitution
24:39and has added words
24:41to the Constitution,
24:43then is it the responsibility
24:45of the Parliament
24:47or not?
24:49In the past,
24:51the Parliament
24:53we lawyers think
24:55that there should be no confrontation.
24:57A judge will not like
24:59if you tell him
25:01that your decision was not
25:03in accordance with the Constitution.
25:05I think there is no political
25:07or parliamentary perspective
25:09in this.
25:11Maybe it is the perspective
25:13of the lawyers that
25:15this matter should be addressed
25:17by the Supreme Court.
25:19Mr. Murtaza,
25:21the larger consensus
25:23has been thrown in your court,
25:25the court of the unionists.
25:27At this time,
25:29the movement of the
25:31Pakistan People's Party
25:33is a kind of pressure
25:35for the government.
25:37Without you being active,
25:39the government cannot achieve
25:41the amendment.
25:43I would like to ask you
25:45that at this time,
25:47is there a possibility
25:49of any contact
25:51with Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf
25:53or not at all?
25:55Anika,
25:57when the Speaker
25:59made a committee in the National Assembly,
26:01all the parliamentary
26:03political parties were given
26:05representation and PTI was included.
26:07I believe Barrister Gauhar
26:09and Sahabzada
26:11and probably Asad Qaisar
26:13were the members of that committee.
26:15In fact, Umar Ayub
26:17also attended that meeting.
26:19So, there is a discussion
26:21with PTI.
26:23The People's Party always believes
26:25in building consensus.
26:27We will try to convince
26:29other parties
26:31including PTI.
26:33But if PTI,
26:35Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf
26:37is its name and Pakistan Tariq-e-Imran
26:39is not its name,
26:41then I believe that
26:43the amendment of this Constitutional Court
26:45should be backed by PTI.
26:47Because their political party's
26:49aim was to provide
26:51cheap and foreign justice to people.
26:53Okay, Mr. Murtaza,
26:55last but not the least,
26:57the most criticism of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf
26:59is that
27:01the grandson of the one
27:03who made the constitution
27:05is taking the steps
27:07to break the constitution.
27:09He is directly
27:11attacking Bilawal Bhutto Zardari.
27:17Is your question over?
27:19Yes,
27:21your comment is correct.
27:23Tell me, how is the constitution
27:25being broken?
27:27Is it necessary to break the constitution
27:29to reform it?
27:31Is it necessary to
27:33break the constitution
27:35to reform it?
27:37The grandson of Bhutto Zardari
27:39is saying that
27:41he is the grandson of Bhutto,
27:43the son of Benazir,
27:45the son of Asif Zardari,
27:47the chairman of Pakistan People's Party,
27:49but a powerful man like me
27:51took 45 years
27:53to get justice
27:55for my late grandfather.
27:57So think,
27:59if Bilawal Bhutto Zardari
28:01took 45 years to get justice,
28:03how much time will Murtaza take?
28:05Right, Mr. Murtaza Wahab,
28:07thank you very much for giving your perspective.
28:09From one Murtaza to another Murtaza,
28:11Mr. Kamran Murtaza is with us.
28:13Senator Kamran Murtaza
28:15is obviously a leader of JUI.
28:17Thank you very much, Mr. Sen.
28:19Mr. Sen, in a little while,
28:21you will meet Mr. Murtaza Wahab.
28:23He has said that
28:25obviously, we have
28:27worked on some things.
28:29I had asked about your working paper,
28:31whether it is ready or not.
28:33Is JUI's working paper ready?
28:35Is there going to be a discussion on it?
28:37See,
28:39actually,
28:41there was a problem here as well.
28:43From Murtaza,
28:45he is my younger brother,
28:47I had told him that
28:49he will need you,
28:51we are sitting in opposition.
28:53So you give your paper first.
28:55We will not disclose our mind
28:57until you give your paper.
28:59So,
29:01he has agreed with that.
29:03Today, he has said that
29:05he may be coming in a little while.
29:07So, we will meet, God willing.
29:09First, let us listen to him,
29:11what he says.
29:13Even if he says that we are not in the government,
29:15but the government is standing
29:17on their support.
29:19So, those who are standing on their support,
29:21or the government itself,
29:23we will see what is in their mind
29:25and then we will move forward.
29:27If something is in the interest of Pakistan,
29:29then we will definitely
29:31take it forward in the interest of Pakistan.
29:33Today, we spoke with PTI,
29:35yesterday as well,
29:37and today as well.
29:39And we think that
29:41PTI should be trusted in all these matters,
29:43and the rest of the Jamaats should be trusted as well,
29:45so that all the stakeholders
29:47of Pakistan can move forward together.
29:49Right.
29:51Okay, Mr. Rahman,
29:53yesterday, there was a statement
29:55that
29:57Maulana Sahib has no such intention,
29:59Maulana Sahib is still not moving towards
30:01a constitutional amendment.
30:03But after that, there was your statement,
30:05and you still said that if it is in the interest of the country,
30:07then we will make a constitutional amendment.
30:09So, what are the issues in the interest of the country?
30:11Is the Constitutional Court
30:13in the interest of the country?
30:15Because it is being heard that Maulana Sahib
30:17has a consensus on the matter of the Constitutional Court
30:19at this time.
30:21And secondly,
30:23Mr. Murtaza Wahab was also saying
30:25that when the Supreme Court
30:27gave its decision last time,
30:29you yourself said that
30:31this decision is in the interest of
30:33rewriting the Constitution.
30:35So, will the Constitutional Court
30:37support the amendment in Article 63A?
30:41Look, I had said that
30:43Article 63A
30:45is the decision of the Supreme Court,
30:47I do not agree with it.
30:49And it can be said
30:51that if I do not agree with it,
30:53it means that
30:55I do not think it is right.
30:57So, when I do not think it is right,
30:59it can have two meanings.
31:01One is that the government has filed a review,
31:03or some parties have filed a review.
31:05And I think
31:07this is a good case of review.
31:09The problem here was that
31:11we did not agree with it
31:13that we will help you
31:15to bring amendments
31:17together.
31:19The reason was that
31:21it was taken negatively
31:23and positively.
31:25It was taken negatively
31:27in the sense that
31:29if we support it,
31:31then maybe JIO will lose
31:33or reduce its importance.
31:35But it was not like that.
31:37We had a principle stand
31:39that although it is wrong,
31:41the review is pending.
31:43And if it is tried to be corrected
31:45in the review,
31:47if we support it
31:49in that case,
31:51it means that
31:53we will bring ourselves
31:55to a lower level
31:57morally.
31:59The reason for this is that
32:01the second consequence
32:03that the Supreme Court said
32:05that their vote will not be counted.
32:07We do not want to put ourselves
32:09in this difficult situation
32:11that
32:13an impression is created
32:15that we were involved
32:17in some nonsense.
32:19Because it is obvious that
32:21the votes have not been counted
32:23and they will be counted
32:25from somewhere else.
32:27So we do not think it appropriate
32:29to participate at this time.
32:31But the party has not yet
32:33taken any decision on this.
32:35It is still open for the party.
32:37You can call it my personal opinion.
32:39I do not think the decision
32:41is right.
32:43It would have been better
32:45if the Supreme Court
32:47did not agree with the parties
32:49or with one party
32:51which is the influential party.
32:53Then this matter
32:55can be seen.
32:57Right.
32:59Mr. Kamran,
33:01these two things are being
33:03expressed on it.
33:05And you know the meeting
33:07of the journalist.
33:09After that, I put three things
33:11Mr. Maulana agrees.
33:13He agrees with the
33:15amendment of Terracet A.
33:17And thirdly,
33:19this was also said.
33:21Rejection or confirmation
33:23that would mean a lot.
33:25Basically,
33:27the military courts
33:29do not have any disagreement
33:31with Mr. Maulana.
33:33Is this right or wrong?
33:35No.
33:37The Constitution Court
33:39was a part of COD.
33:41We did not sign it.
33:43But later,
33:45not only we,
33:47but PTI also consented to it.
33:49So, in that perspective,
33:51you can see and read
33:53Mr. Maulana's speech.
33:55But his details,
33:57it is not that they agree.
33:59It does not mean that
34:01we will sign it
34:03or vote on it
34:05without any details.
34:07It is a matter of
34:09agreement,
34:11jurisdiction,
34:13and how to solve
34:15this issue.
34:17So, this matter
34:19has to be decided.
34:21It is not a coincidence
34:23that you say
34:25and we agree on it.
34:27You share those details
34:29and then we will see
34:31whether this matter
34:33can be settled or not.
34:35So, you can say that
34:37the decision is wrong
34:39but this is not the stage.
34:41Thirdly, it was a matter
34:43of military court.
34:45We did not agree on it.
34:47The way they were tightening
34:49the matter,
34:51we did not agree on it
34:53that day also.
34:55I think if the matter
34:57had started to stop,
34:59it had started to stop
35:01from that day also.
35:03In Article 199,
35:05the Astra Clause
35:07was violated
35:09in the name of national security.
35:11So, we did not agree
35:13on these things.
35:15Even now,
35:17this is not the case.
35:19Bring the documents.
35:21I am not sabotaging anything
35:23but bring the documents
35:25and we will debate on it.
35:27We are a separate party
35:29and it is not that
35:31we will agree without thinking
35:33or disagree without thinking.
35:35We will see and
35:37we will debate in the party.
35:39After that,
35:41we will keep the things
35:43that we can agree on
35:45in front of the people.
35:47We will keep the things
35:49that we can disagree on
35:51in front of all of you.
35:53Why did Maulana Sahib
35:55take a break from all these matters?
35:57Was there any situation
35:59where the discussion was going on
36:01and discussions were still going on
36:03or was it a break
36:05so that the stakeholders
36:07could think about
36:09what they wanted to establish
36:11and what they did not.
36:13See, no one took a break.
36:15We did not introduce
36:17any amendment.
36:19We would like to have
36:21some other articles
36:23in which there is some improvement.
36:25But basically,
36:27it is up to the people
36:29and not the government.
36:31Did the government take a break?
36:33Yes,
36:35there is no problem from our side.
36:37Today,
36:39the people's party
36:41expressed their desire to meet.
36:43Today, they were told
36:45that they will definitely meet.
36:47The people's party members
36:49are our friends and brothers.
36:51We will meet them,
36:53listen to them,
36:55and discuss the differences.
36:57We want to move forward.
36:59We have met with the PTI.
37:01We met yesterday and today.
37:03We want to move forward.
37:05But we will meet with the PTI
37:07so that we can reach a consensus.
37:09Otherwise,
37:11we will not be able to
37:13reach a consensus.
37:15You said twice
37:17that there should be a consensus
37:19with the PTI.
37:21Before this, the government
37:23will create a consensus with Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf.
37:25But today,
37:27after Mr. Raiduri's statement,
37:29it seems that you have thrown the ball
37:31in the court of the government.
37:33Are you developing a consensus?
37:35A little while ago, Mr. Murtaza Wahab
37:37said that without him, the government is nothing.
37:39He said that the committee
37:41has the PTI's representation.
37:43And because it has the PTI's representation,
37:45it means that we have talked to them.
37:47If they do not want to develop a consensus,
37:49then it is up to them.
37:51Do you think that
37:53this type of consensus development
37:55is enough?
37:57Or should we do something else?
37:59It is like this.
38:01Consensus does not develop like this.
38:03To develop a consensus,
38:05you have to give them a document.
38:07Then you have to sit with them.
38:09Obviously,
38:11their leadership,
38:13which they still consider their leader,
38:15is in custody.
38:17And they will definitely take
38:19their decisions.
38:21So let's move forward.
38:23The prime thing is the
38:25interest of Pakistan.
38:27And if we achieve success
38:29in the interest of Pakistan,
38:31then it will be a win-win situation for all of us.
38:33It will be a good thing for all of us.
38:35So the way to move forward
38:37for the benefit of the country
38:39is that we all come together and move forward.
38:41But Mr. Kamran, the government has not reached out yet.
38:43The government has not reached out yet.
38:45According to your consensus,
38:47the government has not reached out to Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf.
38:51If the government does not reach out
38:53to Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf
38:55as you want,
38:57even then,
38:59with this amendment,
39:01if all things are done
39:03according to what the government
39:05thinks should be done,
39:07will you go ahead with it?
39:09Or do you have a condition that
39:11you will develop consensus with PTI first?
39:13We have not made any condition.
39:15You can think of it as a wish,
39:17but do not think of it as a condition.
39:19Our wish is that PTI
39:21should be engaged in this matter.
39:23And if the government wants,
39:25if the People's Party also wants,
39:27then some responsibilities
39:29can be put on Maulana
39:31and it can be said
39:33that you should engage him.
39:35And whatever is the matter
39:37for the benefit of the country,
39:39we can immediately get together on it.
39:41There is no such thing.
39:43There will be a point of view difference.
39:45If we want, then the benefit of the whole of Pakistan.
39:47But somewhere there will be a point of view difference.
39:49There we will see,
39:51we will try to convince each other.
39:53And if we are not convinced,
39:55then there may be different votes.
39:57But where there can be a consensus,
39:59there will be a consensus.
40:01But if the government does not even try
40:03to create consensus,
40:05but you people think that the amendment
40:07is right and principle,
40:09and it becomes a tailor-out,
40:11and the JUI thinks that it will be in accordance
40:13with the law and the constitution,
40:15and it will be in its parameters,
40:17but the government does not want to develop
40:19consensus with the PTA,
40:21does the JUI still vote in favour?
40:25Look, I am just an ordinary
40:27worker of the JUI.
40:29How can I answer such a big question
40:31that the JUI still votes?
40:33This is not the case.
40:35This is not the case.
40:37Even Maulana cannot respond
40:39like this,
40:41when he is the leader of the JUI.
40:43The reason is that we have
40:45institutions, we have people.
40:47So we will all debate
40:49in our party,
40:51then we will move forward.
40:53What should be done in this situation?
40:55But first make an attempt.
40:57Okay.
40:59Kamran sir, last question.
41:01Tell us when are you expecting a breakthrough?
41:05Breakthrough?
41:07Today,
41:09if the Murtaza people are coming,
41:13I was alerted
41:15that you have to be ready.
41:17But if they are coming,
41:19I have not received a call yet.
41:21If I get a call,
41:23I will go to Maulana.
41:25Give me the papers,
41:27then of course,
41:29he will give us a few days.
41:31Give me so much time
41:33that I can read it myself,
41:35and at the same time,
41:37we can debate it.
41:39So, Kamran sir, can I say
41:41that we should expect a breakthrough
41:43in the next week?
41:45Look, this is something
41:47that the Murtaza people
41:49could have said better than me.
41:51Or the People's Party could have said it better.
41:53Or Noon could have said it better.
41:55We are the opposition.
41:57We are a part of the opposition.
41:59If they want,
42:01they can give us an indication
42:03but the whole matter
42:05is in the hands of Maulana
42:07and your Jamaat.
42:09A breakthrough is not possible without you.
42:11The day you agree,
42:13there will be a breakthrough.
42:15So, should we expect it next week or not?
42:17Look, at this time,
42:19we are going through the election process.
42:21And on the 29th,
42:23the elections of the other provinces
42:25are almost complete.
42:27On the 29th, Amir's election
42:29will also take place,
42:31and we are going to be elected.
42:33So, I don't see
42:35much of a hurry.
42:37Because we are not
42:39in the Badshah Salamat Party.
42:41We have to take the authority,
42:43we have to ask, we have to tell,
42:45we have to explain.
42:47So, what do they explain to us?
42:49What do they tell us?
42:51What are their instructions?
42:53We are bound by them.
42:55Got your point.
42:57Kamran sir, thank you very much.
42:59It was a very important speech
43:01of the Prime Minister in the UN today.
43:03See you after the break.
43:07Welcome back after the break.
43:09On one hand, there is domestic politics.
43:11On the other hand, there is international politics.
43:13Where any
43:15controlled army
43:17tries to legalize
43:19its control.
43:21On one hand, Israel has control over Palestine.
43:23On the other hand, India has control
43:25over Kashmir.
43:27Controlled army
43:29occupies all
43:31the territories
43:33that they have
43:35occupied.
43:37Today, in the UNGA,
43:39the speech of Pakistan's Prime Minister
43:41Shahbaz Sharif
43:43mentioned Palestine
43:45and the atrocities
43:47that are being committed in Palestine.
43:49Listen.
43:57The rubble of their shattered homes.
43:59Can we turn
44:01a blind eye to mothers
44:03cradling the lifeless bodies
44:05of the children?
44:07This is not just a conflict.
44:09This is systematic slaughter
44:11of innocent people of Palestine.
44:15Systematic slaughter.
44:17It has been declared a genocide.
44:19Small children
44:21are being tortured
44:23by bullets
44:25to see their bodies
44:27being destroyed,
44:29to see them being martyred.
44:31This does not give any peace of mind
44:33to a person.
44:35This is happening in Kashmir.
44:37The Prime Minister also
44:39mentioned this in the UNGA speech.
44:49Similarly,
44:51any Prime Minister of Pakistan
44:53or any citizen of Pakistan
44:55or any human being
44:57should raise their voice.
44:59Give permission to Anika Nisar.
45:01With this prayer,
45:03Muslims of both Palestine and Kashmir
45:05will get freedom one day
45:07and will be freed from these atrocities.
45:09Allah Hafiz.