Gonsalves: The world's conflicts today reflect the failure of the multilateral system
As we continue closely following the 79th edition of the UN General Assembly underway, our special envoy Jorge Gestoso dialogues with the prime minister of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Ralph Gonsalves, for an exclusive interview with teleSur
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00:00And as we continue closely following the 79th edition of the United Nations General Assembly
00:05underway, our Special Envoy, Jorge Gestoso, dialogue with the Prime Minister of St. Vincent
00:11and the Grenadines, Ralph Gonsalves, for an exclusive interview with TELESUR.
00:15Let's listen.
00:19We are at the mission of St. Vincent and the Grenadines at New York, and we have the honour
00:25to have with us the Prime Minister of St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Mr. Ralph Gonsalves.
00:32Always a pleasure to have you, Mr. Gonsalves.
00:35Thank you very much.
00:36Mr. Gonsalves, what is the issue that you are bringing to the general debate that concerns
00:42you the most?
00:44Well, the first most important thing is for us to continue the work as small island developing
00:52states, which we elaborated at our meeting in Antigua and Barbuda in May, addressing
01:00the concerns of the 39 SIDs in the world, 70 million people, issues on climate change,
01:11climate financing.
01:14And then, of course, we are very much concerned about the contradictions in the world today
01:22and all the material difficulties that people are facing, and issues in Gaza and Ukraine
01:29and in other places, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Sudan and, of course, Haiti.
01:40Each of these conflicts has its own peculiar origins and context, but they are all reflective
01:48of a failure of the multilateral system, which is important for us to promote in order
01:55to have peace, justice, prosperity and security.
02:01And in the hemisphere, the issue has to be addressed about the ghost of Monroe, which
02:12still stalks the citadels of a great nation, and we suffer either collaterally or directly
02:27because of this ghost.
02:30And this ghost has made flesh in many cases.
02:32Still alive and kicking?
02:34And the weaponising of the financial system against Venezuela and Cuba, the embargoes,
02:43all the unjust declarations against these two countries, among others.
02:50And really to re-emphasise that there is no country in the Caribbean and Latin America
02:55This is a threat to this great nation, a nation of tremendous innovation and culture
03:06and hard work and ingenuity and prosperity.
03:14Of course, there are downsides, and one of the downsides is this ghost which traverses
03:23the marbled halls of the power brokers across this great empire.
03:30You have always the threat of climate change.
03:32You are living in first-hand hurricanes and devastation in the island.
03:40Absolutely.
03:41In St. Vincent and the Grenadines, since the dawn of the 21st century, we have had 12 major
03:47climatic events that separate and distinguish from the volcanic eruptions of April 2021.
03:56So that's a big issue for us.
03:57The last one is Hurricane Beryl, July the 1st this year.
04:04It affected 20% of our population and direct economic damage, one third of our gross domestic
04:12products.
04:13So it's a serious matter for relief, recovery and reconstruction.
04:18And the multilateral financial institutions are not fit for purpose to deal with these
04:27kinds of climatic events and the danger they represent and the damage they cause.
04:39What about the economy?
04:40Because also the fact that the world economy is not growing at the pace that everybody
04:46would love to, you also are feeling the pain.
04:50We do feel the pain.
04:53Part of it has to do with the internal contradictions of the dominant forces in the global political
04:59economy and the outpouring from the contradictions within that political economy with war and
05:07the expenditure on war, weapons of mass destruction, lethal weaponry.
05:14And if we can spend even a fraction of that kind of money on human beings and to deal
05:20with climate justice and poverty and unemployment and education and issues touching and concerning
05:28women and girls and the young people, we'd be in a far better place.
05:33But the only area, the only zone in where we can bring all these things together is
05:39in the multilateral space.
05:42Hegemons and would-be hegemons don't really want to act multilaterally unless they do
05:53it within their own interests, because great powers have a tendency to want to maintain
06:02dominance.
06:03It has been so historically.
06:05And now and again, they dress it up and tell us that the central contradiction is about
06:12democracy versus autocracy.
06:13Well, St. Vincent of Greenleaf is a democratic country, we are free, we are independent,
06:19and we remain so always.
06:23And from where we sit, from where we stand, the central contradiction is not between democracy
06:31and autocracy.
06:34It is who gets what, when, where, and how.
06:38Who owns and controls the means of production, distribution, and exchange.
06:42That's what it is about.
06:44And when the various factions and nation-states across the world, the hegemons and would-be
06:50hegemons, talk about the new world order, I ask the simple questions, what's new?
06:57Which world?
06:58And who gives the orders?
07:00What about the Brits?
07:02How do you see it?
07:04That's an important countervailing force which is arising.
07:09Still you have a unipolar world, but it's increasingly coming under strain and questioning.
07:18And that's part of the problem.
07:21And in some countries, you have an option being pursued, which is either a neoliberal
07:30option or even a neo-fascist option in some cases.
07:37Because the persons who are running these lines, apart from wanting to make their countries
07:44white again, which they never ... the country is never white.
07:49In any case, you can't turn the clock back.
07:51We are where we are.
07:53And it's really about maintenance of hegemony.
07:57To me, it's a very straightforward matter.
08:00And in a great nation, sometimes we find ourselves where we are in the shadow of this great nation.
08:08We become prisoners to their presidential politics, and so on and so forth.
08:15We have to live with these things and find the spaces to be able to organise our affairs
08:24in our own interests.
08:26It's not easy.
08:28And we have to ensure that we build alliances, and we build these alliances not to undermine
08:40anybody, but to build alliances to advance our own cause, our own interests, the interests
08:48of the people, to make sure that we live decent lives.
08:53As a neighbour of the Caribbean, Haiti, a question in two parts.
09:03Basically, pushed by the US, it has been sent a, quote unquote, police force to put order.
09:12First of all, it was not a United Nations typical mission, because it was not financed
09:17by the United Nations, it was financed by the US.
09:21So far, no results at all.
09:24What they're trying to say, that it's going to bring peace and whatever, it's not working.
09:29So, part of the question should be, is it already another intervention of the first
09:36world that is failing in Haiti?
09:39And the second part of the question, your reaction of Haiti in the political campaign
09:45of the US, trying to diminish the credibility of the Haitian and say that they're eating
09:52cats and dogs?
09:53Yeah, well, the latter issue about cats and dogs is just rubbish, absolute rubbish.
10:00It's where prejudices are being raked over in a quest of something ignoble.
10:10I don't think serious people take that kind of a rubbish, give it any credence.
10:16The question, the first part of the question, the more complicated one, when people are
10:23suffering from violence generated by gangs and criminal gangs, sometimes they put on
10:34the cloak as though they're Robin Hoods, but criminal gangs.
10:40People want peace, they want security, they want humanitarian assistance, they want to
10:45see certain basic rights restored to them, they want to see democracy, they want to be
10:53able to go about their lives in some way, give meaning to themselves and their families.
11:01And people would look to any source for security.
11:07Haiti is a member of the Caribbean community and we have been working politically on important
11:11questions and this is through the work of CARICOM that we are able to get the presidential
11:17council moving and see that there's a government in place which reflects broad interests, not
11:23yet elections, we'll get to that in another year's time, hopefully, always within the
11:31framework of something being Haitian led and Haitian devised.
11:39The Kenyans who are there, they're part of the MSF, the multinational security force,
11:53which the United Nations Security Council has approved of, not as part of a peacekeeping
12:01force from the United Nations, we have been there, that one before and that wasn't very
12:07successful.
12:09No, this one is to get countries to help, the United States is not going to put in any
12:19troops for all kinds of different reasons, no, you need Canada.
12:25So other countries have said, well, we can help, but it's an expensive business.
12:31So I don't see what is happening the same as the old-fashioned interventions, it's more
12:39nuanced, and look, when you're in a difficult situation, you have to try to make the best
12:49of it because men and women make history, but only to the extent that the circumstances
12:55of history permit them so to make.
12:58As I said, if you're living in the capital city and 80% of it is controlled by gangs
13:06who can, capriciously, you're not concerned about where the security comes from.
13:11The truth of the matter though is that the number of security personnel from outside
13:17on the ground, so far they aren't making a significant difference, they've made some
13:22difference, but the gangs are still there to be dismantled.
13:26So it's still a challenge.
13:27A great challenge.
13:28Do you think it's going to see results or hopefully results in what sort of term, short,
13:35medium, large?
13:36No, this is a long haul, and hopefully we can have enough security for the electoral
13:44system to be fashioned and for people to be able to campaign.
13:49Next year, for example?
13:51Maybe next year, maybe another year plus.
13:55You're optimistic?
13:56Well, hopeful.
14:00You know, there's a Pauline virtue about faith.
14:06It's the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of that which we have not yet seen.
14:13Mr. Prime Minister Ralph Gonsalves, thank you very, very much for having us.
14:20We were listening to our special envoy, Jorge Gestoso, and Prime Minister of San Vincente
14:25and the Grand Prince Ralph Gonsalves during an important exclusive at such a significant
14:30time for the international scene.