11th Hour | Waseem Badami | ARY News | 25th September 2024
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(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Waseem Badami
Guests:
- Syed Shabbar Zaidi (Former Chairman of FBR)
- Miftah Ismail (Former Minister of Finance)
- Muneeb Farooq (Analyst)
- Habib Akram (Analyst)
- Asma Shirazi (Analyst)
- Sardar Latif Khan Khosa PTI
How Beneficial is the new IMF Program for the Pakistan's Economy | Shabbar Zaidi's Opinion
Talks between PTI and Establishment? - Latif Khosa Told Everything - BREAKING NEWS
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Waseem Badami
Guests:
- Syed Shabbar Zaidi (Former Chairman of FBR)
- Miftah Ismail (Former Minister of Finance)
- Muneeb Farooq (Analyst)
- Habib Akram (Analyst)
- Asma Shirazi (Analyst)
- Sardar Latif Khan Khosa PTI
How Beneficial is the new IMF Program for the Pakistan's Economy | Shabbar Zaidi's Opinion
Talks between PTI and Establishment? - Latif Khosa Told Everything - BREAKING NEWS
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, Peace be upon you.
00:18Whenever we talk about national politics,
00:21there is a point that politics is fine in its place,
00:24but what will become of the economy?
00:26Talk about this.
00:28This is the most common question.
00:30What is the relationship between politics and the economy?
00:32This itself is a question.
00:33But the economic trend, as the government said the other day,
00:36see, inflation has come in single digits for the first time in such a long time.
00:40This is a good economic trend.
00:42You see how the interest rates are decreasing.
00:46This means that at the government level,
00:48at the state level, it is being discouraged
00:51that you keep your money in the bank.
00:53It is being encouraged that you invest.
00:55Then the economy will run and things will be better.
00:58Anyway, this question comes to mind again and again.
01:01A few minutes ago, there was news about the IMF.
01:05Obviously, when it comes to the economy,
01:07the news of the IMF is very important.
01:09Pakistan had to go to the IMF program.
01:12For that, Pakistan was protesting.
01:14In the last few demonstrations of the IMF,
01:17when the topic of Pakistan did not come on the agenda,
01:20people expressed surprise.
01:22Some criticized.
01:23They said, look, how bad the situation is.
01:25A few minutes ago, the IMF was announced.
01:28For that, Pakistan was formally granted a loan.
01:32Pakistan will receive $ 7 billion.
01:34In the next 37 months,
01:36the first installment will be received on September 30,
01:38which will be approximately $ 1.1 billion.
01:41So the IMF has approved a $ 7 billion bailout package for Pakistan.
01:44And its duration, as we said, will be 37 months.
01:48The first installment of the program will be received by Pakistan by September 30.
01:52Some economic experts say this.
01:55And the people of the government also say that
01:57with the approval of the IMF loan,
01:59the pressure of foreign players will now end or decrease.
02:01Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif expressed satisfaction with the approval of the package.
02:06He says, by the grace of God,
02:07the implementation of economic reforms is proceeding rapidly.
02:10After the economic recovery,
02:11we will continue to work for the goals of economic development.
02:14The state bank governor says that
02:16the government has adopted a strict economic policy for the IMF loan program.
02:19And it is expected that Pakistan will receive more than $ 1 billion in the first installment.
02:23In this regard, the Prime Minister of Pakistan, present in the United States,
02:26admits that the IMF conditions were very strict.
02:29But he says that we have met those conditions.
02:32And he also thanked two Somalis in this regard.
02:34What did Mr. Shahbaz Sharif say?
02:36There is a board meeting of the IMF.
02:39We have met all their conditions.
02:42The conditions were very strict.
02:44We have met them.
02:45By the grace of God.
02:46And I want to thank
02:48Saudi Arabia, China and the UAE for their trustworthiness.
02:59It was not possible without their full cooperation.
03:04With collective efforts,
03:06our government and institutions
03:11not only accepted the economic challenges,
03:15but also gradually improved the economic indicators.
03:24So this is what the government has to say.
03:26Let's talk to some economic experts
03:29and try to find answers to some innocent questions.
03:32How good or bad is this program for the economy of Pakistan?
03:36Will the conditions of ordinary people be better than this?
03:39Or will there be a reduction in the rate at which the economy is deteriorating?
03:44What are the economic indicators that we mentioned?
03:47Are they real?
03:49We will try to find out in simple words.
03:51After that, we will talk about politics in the second part of the program.
03:53But first, we have invited two very relevant people
03:59who have a lot of knowledge on complex issues like the economy.
04:04But they also have the ability to talk in simple words.
04:08And they are very relevant.
04:10Mr. Mifta Ismail, I am very thankful to you.
04:18And Mr. Shabbar Zaidi, I am very thankful to you.
04:33Let's try to understand each other.
04:35Mr. Shabbar, please explain to us.
04:37How good or bad is this program for the economy of Pakistan?
05:07In my opinion, this is a good step for the economy.
05:12But we should keep this in mind.
05:18Sometimes we ignore it.
05:21In any country in the world, in any economy,
05:25the IMF program does not come for the welfare of the economy.
05:30Rather, it comes to support the declining economy.
05:42Now you have to do what you have to do.
05:47Secondly, the IMF program is always anti-growth.
05:53It does not lead to growth.
05:56In fact, it condenses growth.
06:00But it is also true that if you compare September 2023 with 2024 in Pakistan,
06:09then Pakistan's inflation and other things have improved.
06:14And the main reason for this is, in my opinion,
06:17more than the actions of the government,
06:19more than the actions of the government,
06:21there are international events.
06:23For example, oil prices have substantially decreased.
06:26And because our overall growth has decreased,
06:31our dollar demand has decreased.
06:35So there is stability in the dollar.
06:40We need to understand this.
06:46If a person has four rotis and he has taken a loan,
06:51then he gives two rotis to the lender and two rotis to his child.
06:59If you give two and a half rotis to the lender,
07:03the lender will be happy.
07:05But your child will have only one and a half rotis.
07:09Pakistan is going through this scenario today.
07:12When Pakistan does not have rotis to feed its children,
07:18but we are running our country by giving interest costs,
07:23then no matter how much you talk,
07:26Pakistan's economy does not look like
07:30what we think that there is a stream of milk and honey flowing here.
07:36We have to cut our rotis and give them to our lenders to feed our children.
07:43And we will have to decide one day
07:46how long we will cut it and give it to our lenders.
07:52Mr. Shabbar, when I come to you again,
07:54I will ask you,
07:56when you are saying that we will have to decide
07:58how long we will run the country on loan,
08:00and on the other hand you are saying that getting a loan is a good progress,
08:03then how are these two things right?
08:05Let me ask you,
08:06Mr. Ismail, in simple words,
08:08do you think that in terms of Pakistan's economy,
08:10of course, this is not a stream of milk and honey,
08:13nor will there be an overnight change,
08:15but if this is said, then is it right or not?
08:17Is it safe to say that at least the worst is over?
08:21Now, at least in the next two or three years,
08:23in terms of economy, it will be better than the last two or three years.
08:26And again, by better, I mean that
08:28the ratio with which inflation was increasing,
08:30that ratio will decrease.
08:32That is, it will be bad at least at a slow pace.
08:34Will this happen or not?
08:39Thank you, Mr. Wasim.
08:40Look, this IMF program,
08:42you have got two things from it.
08:44One is that you will get 1.1 billion dollars in one or two days.
08:47It is a program of 7 billion.
08:49But the more important thing that you have got is that
08:52you have given a certificate all over the world,
08:54from IMF,
08:56that if Pakistan continues to run on the program
08:58that we have told in the next three years,
09:01then it will not default.
09:03This is a very simple thing.
09:05So, the investor all over the world gets this confidence,
09:08or the lender all over the world, the banker,
09:10who was threatening you with money,
09:12he will understand that for three years,
09:14IMF is also saying that it will not default.
09:16So, this means that he can invest in Pakistan with confidence
09:19and can also lend to Pakistan with confidence.
09:22So, this is what was going on.
09:24If, God forbid, this did not happen,
09:26then tomorrow you will see that the dollar market,
09:28there would be a strange new demand,
09:30in which people would think that
09:32if the Pakistani rupee would default,
09:34then people would start buying dollars,
09:36would start sending dollars.
09:38So, today, by the grace of God, this problem is over.
09:40And the program of IMF has come.
09:42This program, as the Prime Minister said,
09:44had very strict conditions.
09:46But unfortunately, all the bitterness
09:48that was there, the Prime Minister put it
09:50on all the people of Pakistan
09:52and did not take any responsibility.
09:54So, the budget that came,
09:56he did not try to reduce any expenses.
09:58He increased taxes by 24%,
10:00while the government itself is saying
10:02that inflation will be 12-13%.
10:04Similarly, the government said that
10:06the PSDP, Development Expenditures,
10:08they also increased it by more than 60%.
10:10There was no need for that either.
10:12So, all the strictness that was there,
10:14they put it on the people.
10:16Today, in Pakistan, there is a 40% tax
10:18on the salaried class,
10:20there is a 50% tax on business professionals,
10:22and there is a 55% tax on businesses,
10:24on corporations.
10:26And electricity and gas in Pakistan
10:28is the most expensive electricity
10:30in the region of Pakistan.
10:32It is the most expensive electricity
10:34in all the rich countries of Pakistan
10:36or in all the poor countries of Pakistan.
10:38So, we do not see much increase
10:40in our revenue or our industry.
10:42We do not see growth.
10:44You are taking taxes,
10:46you are not reducing your expenses.
10:48And the government did not do
10:50what was to be reformed.
10:52But anyway, this program of IMF
10:54was very important.
10:56The government has got two things today.
10:58One is the program of IMF.
11:00And as Mr. Shabbar said,
11:02the oil prices have come down
11:04so much that your inflation has reduced.
11:06When I was a minister,
11:08for example, the petrol used to be
11:10of $124 per barrel of oil.
11:12Today, it is of $70.
11:14The lowest price in 4 years, 3 years.
11:16Because of that, your petrol is cheaper,
11:18LNG is cheaper, Urea is cheaper,
11:20DAP is cheaper.
11:22So, the rate at which inflation
11:24was increasing,
11:26that is, last year,
11:28inflation was increasing
11:30at a rate of 28-30 percent.
11:32That is, anything worth
11:34Rs.100 was worth
11:36Rs.130 in one year.
11:38Now, it has come down to 12 percent.
11:40It will increase from 130 to 142.
11:42It will continue to increase,
11:44but at least the rate will increase.
11:46And is there a possibility
11:48that this pattern will continue?
11:50Unless, God forbid,
11:52there is an international war,
11:54or something like that.
11:56Now, I think there is a little recession.
11:58China's demand has also slowed down.
12:00Interest rates have also decreased in America.
12:02America's demand has also slowed down.
12:04So, it seems that between $60-$70,
12:06oil will remain between $70-$75.
12:08And if it remains,
12:10inflation has decreased in Pakistan.
12:12At the same time, interest rates are also decreasing.
12:14Because Pakistan has a loan
12:16of Rs.70 crores,
12:18and India has a loan
12:20of Rs.40 trillion.
12:22Because of that,
12:24our interest rates will decrease
12:26and our debt servicing will decrease.
12:28So, these are two or three good things
12:30that the government has.
12:32Because of these two things,
12:34there is space for basic reforms
12:36that it has not done yet.
12:38And we do it every year,
12:40next year.
12:42If you take this loan of the IMF
12:44and do this,
12:46it will be unjust to the country.
12:48It will be unjust to the country's poverty.
12:50It will be unjust to the country's people.
12:52And the reforms that we were expecting,
12:54at least in the budget,
12:56did not happen,
12:58according to economic experts.
13:00Mr. Shabbar, I want to talk to you further,
13:02but first explain to me
13:04what you said in the last answer.
13:06On the one hand,
13:08you said it was a good precedent
13:10that more loans have been received.
13:12And on the other hand,
13:14you said it was a good precedent
13:16that more loans have been received.
13:18Please explain this.
13:20Look, as Miftah Abbas is right,
13:22you should realize that
13:24if this loan was not received,
13:26then we would have reached
13:28almost the time of default.
13:30So, this is a default deferment.
13:32You should not think
13:34that this has been a correction.
13:36You should think that
13:38they have guaranteed you
13:40for three years
13:42that Pakistan will not go to default
13:44or there will be no Diwali.
13:46So, this
13:48and the 7 billion dollars
13:50is not a very large amount.
13:52The problem is its
13:54credibility
13:56and the problem is
13:58its strength.
14:00When the IMF program comes to a country,
14:02it means that
14:04international agencies,
14:06international bodies
14:08are accepting that
14:10the country will not go to default.
14:12We will maintain
14:14its current account.
14:16But it does not say
14:18that we will
14:20improve the conditions of its people.
14:22I don't understand.
14:24They don't say this.
14:26And Mr. Shabbar,
14:28I understand.
14:30I am asking you a question.
14:32You have always said
14:34that if you want to improve
14:36in the long term,
14:38I will mention one of them
14:40because we have discussed
14:42in many debates
14:44what should be done,
14:46what sectors should be taxed.
14:48We have heard Mr. Mifta
14:50say that
14:52what kind of a joke is this?
14:54In which country does the term
14:56non-filer exist?
14:58If there is a non-filer
15:00and he is going to buy a car,
15:02give him this much extra
15:04and buy a car.
15:06Is this a good reform or not?
15:08First Mr. Shabbar.
15:36If you give more than 10%
15:38then you are not a thief.
15:40This was my
15:4225-year attempt.
15:44If you watch my 25-year program,
15:46in this same TV program
15:48I had a big argument with Mr. Haroon Akhtar
15:50that what is this non-filer?
15:52And today
15:54it is a matter of great joy for me
15:56that the Pakistan government
15:58accepted my non-filer statement
16:00that non-filer does not exist.
16:02This is nonsense.
16:04And this nonsense
16:06should end with the law of Pakistan.
16:08Today,
16:10the entire Pakistani nation
16:12should be happy
16:14that the Pakistani tax authorities
16:16and the FBI of Pakistan
16:18and the politicians of Pakistan
16:20understood that
16:22the way they were running
16:24the country's tax,
16:26now they have realized for the first time
16:28that this non-filer is actually
16:30a whitening scheme
16:32where you buy a house with the money of corruption
16:34and you say that I am a non-filer
16:36so no one is going to ask me to buy a house.
16:38Now the next question
16:40is that
16:42when a person is a non-filer
16:44there are three categories
16:46a non-filer
16:48and a person who does not require filing
16:50and a person who is a non-filer.
16:52There are three categories.
16:54Here, the third category
16:56who does not require
16:58we have never identified.
17:00The next issue
17:02on which the government is going to make a mistake again
17:04is section 114b.
17:06It says that
17:08if you are a non-filer
17:10then the government will close your sim card
17:12the government will close your travel
17:14the government will do this
17:16the government will do that.
17:18According to me, section 114b
17:20is an illegal section
17:22and the day this section
17:24is tested in court, this section will be blown.
17:26When you closed the sim of 5 lakh people
17:28Islamabad High Court
17:30gave them a stay.
17:32So you are telling me
17:34that if Waseem Badami
17:36is a non-filer
17:38then he can't get married
17:40and he can't get married.
17:42This is not possible.
17:44So how can a non-filer's life
17:46be tortured?
17:48You are saying
17:50that the person who coined
17:52and with all due respect
17:54before belonging to that party
17:56this is the invention of PMLN
17:58I fought with them a lot
18:00that this is wrong
18:02they didn't understand.
18:04I was the chairman of FBR
18:06I removed it
18:08I removed it from 2019
18:10but they didn't stop
18:12and brought it again.
18:14If you see the
18:16financial bill of 2024
18:18then all the provisions are about
18:20non-filer and late-filer.
18:22I was surprised
18:24when I saw in the newspaper
18:26that non-filer will end
18:28I couldn't believe my ears
18:30that FBR is saying
18:32that non-filer will end.
18:34This is a torture
18:36for them.
18:38You should understand
18:40that non-filer will not end.
18:42If I may, Shabbar bhai
18:44I will take Mr. Mifta's opinion
18:46Do you think
18:48it has become needful
18:50or there are still
18:52people who don't know
18:54what non-filer is?
18:56The government says
18:58that non-filer should be
19:00punished so much
19:02that it is not possible
19:04to live as a non-filer
19:06and the land will get
19:08polluted.
19:10Will this end
19:12the category
19:14of non-filer?
19:16Or will they
19:18find a way
19:20In 2018
19:22when I was the minister of
19:24Treasury,
19:26I said that
19:28we will not allow non-filer
19:30to buy a car or a house.
19:32It is not an effort
19:34to make a security guard
19:36who has an income of
19:38Rs. 30,000 per month
19:40a minimum wage worker
19:42a non-filer.
19:44It is an effort
19:46to make people
19:48who buy cars
19:50for crores
19:52a tax filer.
19:54It is not possible
19:56to say that we do not
19:58follow the laws of Pakistan
20:00and we will not pay tax
20:02but we will give you
20:04extra Rs. 10,000 for buying a car.
20:06It should not be like this.
20:08It should be an effort
20:10of the government
20:12to make such
20:14restrictions
20:16and to file
20:18them.
20:20You said that
20:22we will not allow non-filer
20:24to buy a car or a house.
20:26Can you say with certainty
20:28that no non-filer
20:30could buy a car or a house
20:32in that period?
20:34When the PTI government
20:36came,
20:38they changed this rule.
20:40I changed it.
20:42I terminated it in 2019.
20:44I terminated it in 2019.
20:46I terminated it in 2019.
21:14I think this is a step
21:16in the right direction.
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25:58IPP is being played by an institution, so we should make it clear that in Pakistan,
26:08people used to see security matters first, but unfortunately, because of the failure
26:15of the political system, now people are also seeing the economic matters,
26:20those who are not actually involved in this, it is not their fault,
26:25it is the failure of the politicians.
26:28You tell me, Mr. Waseem Badami, no matter how much we keep quiet,
26:31where is the IPP matter being handled at the moment?
26:34You tell me.
26:36It is being handled in Pindi.
26:38Exchange company matter?
26:39That too is being handled in Pindi.
26:40It is being handled in Pindi, right?
26:41Yes.
26:42Then why don't you talk openly?
26:43I am doing it.
26:44If it is being handled in Pindi, then Supreme Court and…
26:46I have spoken openly, you have said that it is an institution,
26:48people will think that you are talking about PCP.
26:50I said Pindi.
26:51But when you were saying this, Mr. Mitta was smiling,
26:53maybe because he remembered that even in the last period,
26:55Mr. Bajwa used to address the Karachi investors as an army chief,
26:59that look, this is how the economy is.
27:01Okay, now tell me one thing, who made the exchange companies the son of a man?
27:06Yes, the people of Pindi.
27:08Okay, the people of Pindi, the people of Pindi are handling the IPP,
27:12now hand over the trader to them.
27:14So now the question is that these people sitting in the assemblies,
27:17they are showing on TV in the Supreme Court,
27:20I have no interest, very very frankly.
27:23I have no interest, I am the director of 3-4 companies,
27:27I have no interest that who is sitting in the assembly,
27:31Mr. Shahbaz Sharif is sitting, Mr. Imran Khan is sitting,
27:34what is Mr. Fazlur Rehman doing, what is Mr. Fazlur Rehman not doing,
27:38what is Justice Faiz Isa doing, what is Mansoor Ali Shah doing,
27:41because I have been watching this drama for the last 50 years.
27:43I have no interest in this.
27:45They are all irrelevant.
27:46And I also know this, I also know this,
27:49no, I also know that they will come like this in the next election too.
27:52Some will come from the 47th form, some will come from the 45th form.
27:56So as long as you bring effective or effective democracy in Pakistan,
28:01so now those who solve the basic problems of the economy,
28:07if other people come, then this is our misfortune of the civilians.
28:12It is our misfortune that we are not able to do this work,
28:16and other people are doing that work.
28:18Now, from this point of view, I am saying this,
28:21I say this because you say that there is some political instability.
28:27Yes, but I understand one thing,
28:29which will change the economics of Pakistan and the scenario of Pakistan,
28:34that is the election of America on November 4.
28:38If there is a big change in the election of America on November 4,
28:43then you can see its effects in Pakistan.
28:46We will have a separate session on this.
28:48Thank you very much, thank you very much to both the guests.
28:51You are saying that political instability is not a good thing,
28:54but things are being handled from somewhere else,
28:56not from political people.
28:58So then it should not be linked again and again,
29:01economic growth through political instability.
29:04Because it does not matter to people who is sitting there,
29:08who is sitting in the court,
29:10because things are being handled from somewhere else.
29:13So this is what I am getting from you.
29:15Let's take a break,
29:16after that we will talk about something purely political.
29:27Welcome once again, without any introduction,
29:29our three very senior, respected friends, brothers and sisters are with us.
29:33Mr. Qibla Habib Akram Sahib,
29:36brother Muneeb Farooq Sahib
29:38and respected Asma Shirazi Sahiba.
29:40I am very thankful to all three of them.
29:42Without any introduction, let's come to the topic.
29:44Asma Shirazi Sahiba, today you were also a part of it.
29:48Many journalists met Maulana Fazlur Rahman Sahib today,
29:51and you were also among them.
29:52So the direct question is, what impression did you get?
29:55It would be right to say that
29:57Maulana Sahib is at least agreed to the extent of the legal court,
30:01and if he had voted in his favour,
30:03then there would have been nothing wrong with it.
30:05Would it be right to say this in terms of the impression of today's meeting?
30:08Yes, absolutely, Wasim.
30:10I think Maulana said something very clearly,
30:14that this was an old request,
30:16and we have always been a part of it.
30:19Whenever there has been a legal court,
30:21we have been with it.
30:23However, the details of it,
30:25or the matters to be settled about it,
30:28he talked about the differences.
30:30In that too,
30:32maybe I am wrong,
30:34but what I understood was that
30:38the tenure, or it can be discussed,
30:41that the constitutional court,
30:44its tenure or term,
30:46and later on, Murtaza Wahab Sahib was on our program today,
30:49so he also confirmed this matter,
30:51that the term of the court,
30:53it can be discussed,
30:55and if it is not 68,
30:57then it can be discussed on 67,
30:59but nothing is finalized.
31:02Asma sahib, if I ask you a question,
31:05that Maulana Sahib is in favour of this,
31:09and he will vote in favour of the constitutional court,
31:11did you get the impression,
31:13that suppose if something happens,
31:15and as a result, it is obvious that
31:17the first head of the constitutional court will be Mr. Faiz Ishaq,
31:19then will Maulana Sahib stand as a rock,
31:21and say that this has become person-specific,
31:23will he say that we have not made it person-specific,
31:25it is the will of the Prime Minister,
31:27he can put it to anyone.
31:29Look, he said that this is person-specific,
31:31that this is wrong,
31:33we are against this,
31:35but he did not strongly object to this,
31:37that if there is such an incident,
31:39or there is such a consensus,
31:41according to which,
31:43if it is a term of 2 years,
31:45or a term of 3 years,
31:47or a matter of 2 years,
31:49then he did not say anything about it,
31:51that he will stand as a rock,
31:53or he will come forward,
31:55or he will strongly oppose it,
31:57or he will leave,
31:59I did not get any such impression from his speech,
32:01so this is with a lot of clarity,
32:03that things will happen in the coming days,
32:05because on 19th, he said,
32:07that there is a meeting of our general council,
32:09and till that time,
32:11we will be busy
32:13in our membership,
32:15and after that,
32:17we will talk about this matter,
32:19I found many other things very important,
32:21which I deduced from his speech,
32:23because all this speech is a part of consultation,
32:25he has not yet made any final decision,
32:27but his clarity is that,
32:29even in relation to military courts,
32:31he said that,
32:33if there is no sunset clause,
32:35then if it is done,
32:37then what is the harm in it,
32:39that is, he is pondering over it,
32:41still he said that,
32:43this is not a final decision,
32:45that we will do the sunset clause,
32:47and it is very important to talk about it,
32:49that he did not reject it outright,
32:51that how can we support it,
32:53and secondly,
32:55because with clarity,
32:57he said two things,
32:59I will tell you very quickly,
33:01he talked about article 8,
33:03he said that we have rejected it,
33:05he talked about article 9,
33:07he said that we have rejected it,
33:09which is related to fundamental rights,
33:11which is related to the jurisdiction of high courts,
33:13he talked about 197,
33:15and in relation to this,
33:17his option,
33:19one thing,
33:21which he said in his talks,
33:23that the Prime Minister of the Services Chief,
33:25that he can denotify,
33:27at any time,
33:29he said that,
33:31we do not want this to happen,
33:33he expressed his desire,
33:35that we want this Prime Minister,
33:37in other words,
33:39that if he wants to denotify,
33:41then he can do it,
33:43these two things,
33:45Constitutional Court,
33:47and in relation to Military Courts,
33:49we will have our deliberations on this,
33:51and we will have consultations on this,
33:53very interesting,
33:55it was very important,
33:57but it is obvious that this is not over,
33:59because he said this,
34:01that there will be a General Council meeting,
34:03but I think you are right,
34:05that he should not reject it outright,
34:07this is a news itself,
34:09thank you very much,
34:11we have another reason to believe,
34:13I am telling some friends of PTI,
34:15off the record,
34:17and they are not disagreeing with me,
34:19at least off the record,
34:21I am telling them,
34:23that I will not be surprised,
34:25if after a few days,
34:27we see you again,
34:29taunting Maulana Sahib,
34:31if this is a matter of Constitutional Court,
34:33I think Maulana Sahib will do it,
34:35if he is not rejecting the Military Court outright,
34:37then this is not news,
34:39Muneeb Sahib,
34:41Yes, I think,
34:43this is very important,
34:45and I think,
34:47that Maulana Sahib,
34:49in these days,
34:51some messages have been sent,
34:53or Maulana Sahib has been tried to convince,
34:55now what seems to be,
34:57that there is a slight difference on minute things,
34:59which may be corrected by itself,
35:01or with the passage of time,
35:03they will be fine-tuned,
35:05anyway, when such a Constitution is coming,
35:07then there is a discussion on small things,
35:09to add a word somewhere,
35:11to substitute somewhere,
35:13to omit something somewhere,
35:15that is not a big task,
35:17but overall the impression I was getting,
35:19and it was like this,
35:21that in the first 10-12 days of October,
35:23this work will be completed,
35:25now this is definitely a matter,
35:27that the review petition of 63A,
35:29which is on 30th September,
35:31now one thing to see in it,
35:33that how that bench was made,
35:35will that bench remain the same,
35:37or will that bench break once,
35:39because there is a discomfort,
35:41in the Supreme Court,
35:43a judge has been removed from a committee,
35:45obviously,
35:47he is one of the senior judges,
35:49will he want to remain a part of this bench,
35:51or will it be possible,
35:53you know,
35:55it has happened in the past also,
35:57that judges,
35:59it is not surprising that Muneeb Farooq Sahib is not sitting,
36:01Judge Muneeb Sahib is not sitting,
36:03and it has happened in the past also,
36:05that after a hearing,
36:07the judge writes something,
36:09writes a note,
36:11and gets separated from the bench,
36:13which poses a big question mark,
36:15on the whole matter,
36:17therefore,
36:19it is likely that this may or may not happen,
36:21but in the review,
36:23normally the scope is limited,
36:25but the interesting thing is that,
36:27the judges who are included in this,
36:29probably two of them,
36:31and frankly,
36:33the judgement of 63A,
36:35everyone knows how it was written,
36:37how it was done,
36:39and there is nothing surprising in that,
36:41it is one of the worst decisions,
36:43in the history of Pakistan's judiciary.
36:45Yes, I did not find anyone in that,
36:47I mean, I will tell you broadly,
36:49any legal mind,
36:51who said that the decision is right,
36:53even Kamran Murtaza Sahib,
36:55even Salman Akhran Rai Sahib,
36:57even I have reservations in this,
36:59but,
37:01Habib Akram Sahib,
37:03tell us,
37:05in this,
37:07the wish of the government,
37:09to amend the constitution,
37:11through Maulana Fazlur Rehman Sahib,
37:13do you think it will be fulfilled,
37:15if he had to do 10 things,
37:17if not 10,
37:19at least 7 things?
37:21See, the important thing is,
37:23as Asma Shirazi was saying,
37:25what will be the date and date,
37:27Asma has said 19th,
37:29so I am considering 19th October,
37:31because 19th September has passed,
37:33and from 19th October onwards,
37:356 days later,
37:37Justice Qazi Faiz Isa,
37:39will come out of this equation,
37:41if Justice Qazi Faiz Isa,
37:43by chance,
37:45comes out of this equation,
37:47if his identity is removed,
37:49from this amendment,
37:51then it can be said,
37:53that this amendment can be discussed,
37:55but if this amendment is being done,
37:57only because,
37:59Chief Justice,
38:01Justice Qazi Faiz Isa,
38:03has to be retained,
38:05with some excuse,
38:07so that the guards of this system,
38:09who are considered,
38:11or the people who are in the system,
38:13consider them as their guards,
38:15so that they can protect themselves,
38:17so this may not be possible,
38:19so if Justice Qazi Faiz Isa,
38:21is removed from this equation,
38:23then many things can be discussed.
38:53This is the policy of the PTI,
38:55that we want to engage with the establishment,
38:57we want to engage with them even today,
38:59in fact,
39:01one step ahead,
39:03a dialogue between the PTI and the establishment,
39:05has become necessary for this state,
39:07and we should not delay it,
39:09this is inevitable,
39:11this is bound to happen,
39:13if not today, it will happen tomorrow,
39:15if not tomorrow, it will happen day after tomorrow,
39:17we are ready for this,
39:19and we were ready before,
39:21and we are ready today,
39:23and we are ready tomorrow,
39:25and we are ready today,
39:27and we are ready tomorrow,
39:29and we are ready today,
39:31and we are ready today,
39:33and we are ready tomorrow,
39:35and we are ready today,
39:37and we are ready today,
39:39and we are ready tomorrow,
39:41and we are ready today,
39:43and we are ready today,
39:45and we are ready tomorrow,
39:47and we are ready today,
39:49and we are ready tomorrow,
39:51and we are ready tomorrow,
39:53and we are ready tomorrow,
39:55and we are ready tomorrow,
39:57and we are ready tomorrow,
39:59and we are ready tomorrow,
40:01and we are ready tomorrow,
40:03and we are ready tomorrow,
40:05and we are ready tomorrow,
40:07and we are ready tomorrow,
40:09and we are ready tomorrow,
40:11and we are ready tomorrow,
40:13and we are ready tomorrow,
40:15and we are ready tomorrow,
40:17and we are ready tomorrow,
40:19and we are ready tomorrow,
40:21and we are ready tomorrow,
40:23and we are ready tomorrow,
40:25and we are ready tomorrow,
40:27and we are ready tomorrow.
40:47Hmm.
41:17Hmm.
41:47Hmm.
41:53Hmm.
42:03Hmm.
42:17Hmm.
42:31Hmm.
42:47Hmm.
42:55Hmm.
43:17Hmm.
43:47Hmm.
44:03Hmm.
44:17Hmm.
44:47Hmm.
45:05Very interesting.
45:07Very interesting.
45:09Very interesting.
45:11Thank you, sir.
45:13Towards the end,
45:15PTI's senior
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