The future of hypercars! MotorTrend's Ed Loh & Jonny Liebermna take the show on the road to 2024 Pebble Beach Classic Car Forum for a panel discussion with three top designers - Sasha Selipanov (Founder/CEO Nilu27)
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MotorTranscript
00:00:00Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by Motor Trend.
00:00:15Hi there, and welcome to The Inevitable.
00:00:17This is Motor Trend's podcast.
00:00:20This is our podcast about the future of the car, the future of mobility.
00:00:23And on this special episode, the future of car design,
00:00:27specifically hypercar design.
00:00:30But before we get into it, my co-host Ed Lowe here has a special message
00:00:34just for you.
00:00:35The Inevitable podcast is brought to you by the all electric Nissan Aria,
00:00:39inspired by the future design for the now.
00:00:41And right now I have not one, but two questions.
00:00:44Number one, where are we?
00:00:46What are we doing here, Johnny?
00:00:47That's right.
00:00:48Well, this episode was recorded during Pebble Beach Car Week,
00:00:52and we forgot to record the intro up there.
00:00:54So we are beginning.
00:00:56We're toe deep in our SUV of the Year 2025 program.
00:00:59So we're in lovely Tehachapi, California.
00:01:02At a Fairfield Inn & Suites conference room.
00:01:05It is 9.15 p.m.
00:01:07It's lovely.
00:01:08And question number two.
00:01:09So speaking of recording live at Pebble Beach,
00:01:12what did you see that you liked up there?
00:01:14I'm just going to fast forward to the end, because I thought the Concorde
00:01:17Elegance on Sunday on the lawn was the most exciting I've ever seen.
00:01:23And I would say the most excited that like
00:01:26younger people have ever been about Pebble Beach.
00:01:29Like, yeah, sure.
00:01:30You know, last year they had a bunch of Countach's.
00:01:32But this year they had two wedge classes.
00:01:35Plus they had like those those 90s race cars.
00:01:39Like, you know, the EB110 race car.
00:01:40They had a Ferrari F40 on the lawn.
00:01:42They had a Vector W8.
00:01:44I'm so old.
00:01:44McLaren F1 GTR.
00:01:45Yeah, but I'm so old.
00:01:47I remember seeing the Vector at the car show with my dad as a kid
00:01:51next to a Lamborghini LM02.
00:01:53So I think it really kind of resonated.
00:01:55Plus, you had like the Lancia Stratos HF0,
00:01:58which was actually the poster car for Pebble Beach this year.
00:02:02And just all the Queens Range Rovers.
00:02:04Yeah, the excitement that I saw, not only there, but also like
00:02:07it's still happening on social media like five days later.
00:02:10People were just stoked.
00:02:12And yeah, just an incredible year.
00:02:14Just an incredible year.
00:02:15Yeah, I liked it, too.
00:02:18I was I didn't see as much as you did.
00:02:19I had my three year old son with me.
00:02:21That was. Yeah, it was great, though, because he followed my directions
00:02:24at the end of the at the end of the whole long weekend up there.
00:02:27He said, Daddy, Daddy, I didn't touch.
00:02:29I didn't touch anything.
00:02:30Just like you told me to.
00:02:31That's just some good parenting, actually.
00:02:33Yeah, well, but yeah, I thought the Quail was great, too.
00:02:36Quail was banging.
00:02:37Really loved the Myers-Manks, this little the radial engine,
00:02:41the three cylinder that our pal Frank Marcus pointed out to me.
00:02:45Cool to see them having that offering alongside the EV
00:02:49Myers-Manks that they're bringing back.
00:02:50Yeah, I mean, if manufacturers are going to pull back on EVs, like go with go radial.
00:02:54Right. You know, but no, I mean, to the Quail,
00:02:57you know, the roof rodeo, I thought was really cool.
00:02:59The Eccentrica, the Diablo Restomod called the V12 was super cool.
00:03:05Gunther Works, that GWR thing with the air cooled
00:03:10four cam slide valve, they're getting over 500 horsepower
00:03:14out of an air cooled engine, which is kind of never been done before.
00:03:17Right. The the Tudhill GT1 was so wild.
00:03:22Yeah, but it had such an effect on people.
00:03:25It was literally next to about a dozen or so Koenigseggs
00:03:29celebrating 30 years of Koenigseggs.
00:03:31And nobody was looking at the Koenigseggs.
00:03:32They were all staring at the Tudhill.
00:03:34And I was getting messages like, bro, I'm canceling my Singer
00:03:38turbo design study. I'm getting the Tudhill.
00:03:40Right. Right. And a couple of,
00:03:43well, a number of production vehicle debuts.
00:03:46Navigator debuted during Modern Car Week.
00:03:50Yeah. But also at the Quail, we saw
00:03:53well, well, vehicles from our guests, which we should which we should talk about.
00:03:57So, yeah, again, this episode, why we're here is tied directly to us
00:04:01going to the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance and actually hosting,
00:04:05as we do every year, a panel up there, but this time recording it live.
00:04:09And we were really lucky to get an amazing panel
00:04:13of leading automotive designers, all supercar, hypercar designers.
00:04:18It was actually really quite embarrassing how many guys we got,
00:04:21because each one of them, we would have had on as a guest for a full episode.
00:04:24Should I tell the story about how day before Matei Romances,
00:04:27people got in touch with me and said, you want to add him?
00:04:29Yeah, we could have had Matei also, but already I was like,
00:04:33there's no way we're going to we're going to get an hour
00:04:36of value out of three of these guys who include our pal, former guest
00:04:40Sasha Salapinov, who is the founder of Hardline 27 design firm
00:04:44and also launched his NILU 27 analog hypercar
00:04:49during Modern Car Week.
00:04:51There was also your pal Davide Amattea.
00:04:53He's the chief design officer for Automobili Pininfarina
00:04:57who launched a Bruce Wayne car.
00:04:59Yes, the Wayne edition version of Batista.
00:05:03And then last but not least, and the late ad that kind of blew my mind was
00:05:07we got your pal Micha Boeckert, who's the head of design
00:05:11for Automobili Lamborghini.
00:05:13And he was launching a very small vehicle
00:05:15during the week, the replacement for the Huracan,
00:05:18which is the best selling Lamborghini of all time.
00:05:19So we get to talk about that.
00:05:21All right. We have to see.
00:05:22And then now talk about the Temerario.
00:05:24I can't pronounce it, but the Temerario.
00:05:26So and I got to say this.
00:05:29Ed was nervous about this episode.
00:05:31I'm really proud of the way this one came out.
00:05:34I thought it was a great discussion,
00:05:36especially because I shut Ed down most of the way.
00:05:38Most of the time, because he was doing all the talking.
00:05:40So let's just get into it.
00:05:41Without further ado, our very special episode recorded at the 2024 Pebble Beach
00:05:46Classic Car Forum with three amazing car designers.
00:05:51Hey, everybody.
00:05:52Wow. Look at all the people.
00:05:54I know there's traffic.
00:05:55Thank you so much for joining us today.
00:05:58We have an amazing panel discussion for you
00:06:01with some of the top minds, top designers in the automotive industry.
00:06:06We're going to get into it about supercar, hypercars,
00:06:08all the cool stuff you should be looking at this weekend.
00:06:12And I'm going to introduce them in no particular order.
00:06:18But let's start with Sasha Solepinov, founder of NILU 27.
00:06:24He's also the former designer at he did the Bugatti Chiron.
00:06:29You can come and sit over here, Sasha. Thank you so much.
00:06:33Lamborghini, among among others.
00:06:36And let's get how about Davide Amatea,
00:06:40chief design officer for Automobili Pininfarina.
00:06:44Davide, thank you.
00:06:45He's got a beautiful car here that we're going to talk about.
00:06:49That's fine. Middle's fine, yeah.
00:06:51And then Micha Boeckert,
00:06:55design director, Automobili Lamborghini in an amazing suit.
00:06:58Look at this guy.
00:06:59He makes us all look bad.
00:07:01Right there is fine.
00:07:02And I put the best dressed guy next to another well-dressed man,
00:07:06my co-host, Johnny Lieberman.
00:07:08Hello, Johnny.
00:07:11Hey, look at all these guys.
00:07:13All right. So we are recording this as well.
00:07:17It'll be on Motor Trend's Inevitable podcast video podcast
00:07:21coming out shortly after this event.
00:07:23So thank you all for joining us in person
00:07:26and also for listening in and watching us on our YouTube channel.
00:07:30And so I think the idea here is this is called the inevitable.
00:07:34It's the future of the automobile, the future of transportation.
00:07:39But this really started because Ed, four years ago,
00:07:42posed this question to everyone at Motor Trend and said,
00:07:44what is Motor Trend going to look like in the year 2036?
00:07:48I think we initially called it Project 2036.
00:07:51Project 2036, yep.
00:07:52And so that became the inevitable.
00:07:54But, you know, if you go back a few years, go back and we were just talking
00:07:57about this backstage, like 2008, right?
00:08:01Car industry kind of been buzzing along for a century.
00:08:04There was Tesla.
00:08:06They took a Lotus and they put a motor in it. Right.
00:08:10And they sold 100 maybe in 2008 and it went 100 miles
00:08:14and really went about 80 miles before it ran out of battery.
00:08:17And today, 2024, I know in the end of 23,
00:08:21the best selling car in the world was a Tesla Model Y.
00:08:24And then that was unseated by another electric car from China
00:08:27called the BYD something or other.
00:08:30So things change and we think things are going to keep changing.
00:08:35And these gentlemen are all very distinguished supercar, hypercar designers.
00:08:40And so we just kind of want to ask them, like, what does the future look like?
00:08:43What are they thinking about for the year 2036 and beyond?
00:08:48And then we can also talk about how is Pebble going and, you know,
00:08:50all the stuff they launched yesterday. Right.
00:08:52Well, so I was actually going to start there and we could have thrown
00:08:55all that EV stuff out the window.
00:08:57I mean, come on, we're here at Pebble Beach.
00:08:59So let's but let's just start.
00:09:01We'll start with Sasha.
00:09:03I heard you showed something here.
00:09:06You want to you want to tell us what what what did you drop here
00:09:09during Monterey Car Week?
00:09:11Yeah, so we had a pretty epic few days.
00:09:14We showcased our startup's first product, which is the new hypercar.
00:09:21It was a long road getting here, obviously, with the experience
00:09:24that the founding team has, myself and my wife with Koenigsegg, Genesis,
00:09:29in my case, also Bugatti and Lamborghini.
00:09:32It was really a long road to start this car company
00:09:36and to deliver a vision for our first product.
00:09:38And it really kind of addresses the overarching question here
00:09:42that that Johnny started with.
00:09:44What's the future of sports cars?
00:09:45And in our opinion, what our brand stands for is that
00:09:49the future of sports cars isn't about technology.
00:09:52It's not about
00:09:54a religious kind of commitment to tech.
00:09:57The future of sports cars and hypercars in particular is about
00:10:01the emotional fulfillment that they deliver. Right.
00:10:04And whatever technology delivers that emotional fulfillment
00:10:07is the technology that should be used.
00:10:09It's a little bit of a flipping the coin because it used to be
00:10:12the other way around, where you would commit to a technology
00:10:14as your headlining feature and then you design around that tech.
00:10:18We want to stop with that completely.
00:10:20And I also believe that the numbers game is another thing
00:10:23that is, in my mind, completely finished
00:10:25because you have cars like Model S Plaid
00:10:28pretty much destroying everything else in terms of its outright
00:10:31acceleration ability.
00:10:32And you have cars like the RB17 coming onto the market someday soon
00:10:37or the Valkyrie promising five, five and a half turn in cornering speeds.
00:10:42You see about you see Formula One drivers training day and night
00:10:46to be able to withstand that sort of lateral load.
00:10:49I don't actually think that top speed is a parameter anymore either,
00:10:53because I personally driven two hundred and thirty miles an hour
00:10:56on public roads and that's it.
00:10:57No point in time.
00:10:58Yeah, I know, Johnny, you've you've beaten me there.
00:11:00But I went a little quicker one time.
00:11:02Yeah, I never wanted to throw another hundred on top.
00:11:05Like when you're going that fast, especially on a public road,
00:11:08there's I also spoken many times to Kennex like test drivers, for example.
00:11:13And I know how intimately
00:11:15challenging and actually terrifying these speeds are.
00:11:18So I don't necessarily think that coming up with a hypercar
00:11:21that says we'll have even faster performance than Model S Plaid
00:11:25or even higher cornering ability than than Valkyrie
00:11:29or even higher top speed than the Esco Absolute
00:11:32that any of those targets are appealing to me.
00:11:34What's appealing is the back to the roots, driving joy
00:11:37and using as little interfaces between the driver and the road as possible.
00:11:41So if you imagine the chain of command between
00:11:44performing any sort of action on the inside of the car, turning a wheel
00:11:48or pressing on the throttle pedal or a brake pedal,
00:11:51how many different systems get engaged and filter your inputs
00:11:55before they actually get channeled onto the road?
00:11:58We wanted to reduce that to the minimum, to the
00:12:02very leanest possible equation and then emphasize instead of the tech.
00:12:06We wanted to emphasize the purity of the driving experience.
00:12:09And what's also very important for me,
00:12:10borrowing a bit from also my times at Lamborghini, is the Countach factor.
00:12:14The whole factor is really important that when you see the car,
00:12:17the first emotion you feel is the holy shit factor.
00:12:22And to that end, it's a naturally aspirated V12, six speed manual.
00:12:28Seven speed manual.
00:12:29Sorry, seven speed manual.
00:12:31The V12 is bespoke, developed for us by Hartley Engines out of New Zealand.
00:12:35It's a six and a half liter hot V, 80 degree 12 cylinder
00:12:40pumping out about 1070 horsepower at 11,000 rpm.
00:12:44And it's fully exposed in the rear of our car
00:12:46where it's celebrated in the way that a watch mechanism
00:12:49would be celebrated in a mechanical, ultra expensive watch.
00:12:54But let's turn now to, let's go to Davide for a second, because
00:12:57you have kind of the opposite of that.
00:12:59But you do have, and I've driven it, double the power.
00:13:02And I, you know, I remember I drove the Batista, the Pininfarina Batista.
00:13:08And I remember, you know, it was like 1900 and whatever horsepower.
00:13:11And I remember getting out of it and thinking, finally,
00:13:13I know the answer to the question, how much is enough horsepower?
00:13:16Because I thought it was great.
00:13:18So what like you obviously have a counter
00:13:22opinion, if you will, or, you know, direction.
00:13:26Could you tell us about what?
00:13:27What news are you making here?
00:13:30So, yeah, well, this year was a fantastic feeling
00:13:33because it's the fifth year in a row the Automobili Pininfarina presented something.
00:13:39We started a long time ago in 2018.
00:13:43And of course, being pioneering in some way
00:13:46always put you on the spot of the judgment of the people like Johnny did.
00:13:52Our goal is to establish the most pinnacle luxury brand.
00:13:57So a great news in this forum, just to say that this is our goal.
00:14:02We choose the technology that for us was the best example
00:14:07to upset a challenge with this heritage in design.
00:14:11So an electric car can be beautiful.
00:14:14And we try to make it the answer for customer.
00:14:16Yes, could be fun to drive.
00:14:18This is what we are doing one by one.
00:14:20So anyone that wants to try the car, it will be really a pleasure to have you.
00:14:26But was an excuse to establish the pinnacle luxury brand.
00:14:30And we want to put the KPI and the accent on the design.
00:14:34So I'm quite lucky to be in that in that spot.
00:14:38And the performance, I agree with Sasha, is how you handle it.
00:14:42And what is the emotion that you transmit with your customer?
00:14:46So I think that in the future, more than fixing parameter and number
00:14:51is how you deliver the total experience to the customer.
00:14:54Since the purchase, meeting the designers, talking with the company
00:14:59and be a part of a family and not just purchasing a random car.
00:15:04So this is what we are trying to do is the fifth year
00:15:07we presented the first electric one off
00:15:10in the world based on the same platform.
00:15:12Then Batista for one commissioned a client.
00:15:15So he's already sold.
00:15:16So he asked us a crazy question, like, could you deliver the car in 12 months?
00:15:21You know, guys, how much work is behind that.
00:15:23And of course, we celebrate also an incredible opportunity
00:15:28to shape together with Warner Bros.
00:15:30and DC, a Bruce Wayne Batman car and Automobili Pininfarina.
00:15:35We are really happy that we can represent in the real world
00:15:38the car of this amazing character this year.
00:15:41And then we got Michi here, who was given the small task
00:15:44of designing the replacement for the best selling Lamborghini of all time.
00:15:49Right, the Huracan?
00:15:51We can say so, yeah.
00:15:52Yeah, it was the best selling Lamborghini.
00:15:53I mean, it's next to the Urus, of course.
00:15:56Yeah, but and then he's launched the car yesterday, which I saw.
00:15:59It has a V8 turbocharged twin turbo that revs to 10,000,
00:16:03but also three electric motors.
00:16:05So powertrain wise, you're sort of splitting the difference
00:16:08of what these two are doing.
00:16:09So what do you what do you tell us about the car and tell us about
00:16:14Lamborghini's philosophy within?
00:16:16Tell us the name.
00:16:18Please pronounce the name correctly.
00:16:21OK, what how would you pronounce the name?
00:16:23No, no, I'm not going to.
00:16:24Come on, come on.
00:16:25We're being recorded. Come on. Go, go, go.
00:16:26OK, so first of all, it's Lamborghini Temerario.
00:16:31Temerario. Temerario.
00:16:34I can't roll my R.
00:16:35I can't even not, you know, the R needs to be the Italian R.
00:16:38Yes, Temerario. Oh, do it again.
00:16:42Which means, you know, he's fearless, you know, it's
00:16:46and it was another bull, right?
00:16:471875, of course, fighting bull.
00:16:49In Lamborghini, we have a clear philosophy to to give the name
00:16:52after a fighting bull.
00:16:54So for us, it's a great moment.
00:16:56Personally, I always love to be here in the Monterrey Car Week for Lamborghini.
00:17:00It's an important presentation every year.
00:17:03We have here the Lamborghini Temerario and the Lamborghini Temerario
00:17:07Alleggerita to make it even more challenging in terms of name.
00:17:11It's a fantastic car.
00:17:13It is a world premiere.
00:17:15It's a very agile and very compact car.
00:17:18You can see in the design and every millimeter it will be fun to drive.
00:17:22And I fully agree also what Sascha said.
00:17:24You know, in Lamborghini, we are, you know, we are a dream car
00:17:28that you don't need, but you want to have.
00:17:30And, you know, it's about it's always about vibrations, power
00:17:34and the way you feel it.
00:17:36Yeah. And this is our number one
00:17:38effort that we do that, you know, you jump into the car.
00:17:41It has to look cool.
00:17:42It has to have a perfect interior.
00:17:44But you need to feel a machine.
00:17:47You need to feel a machine that is giving you this luxurious feeling.
00:17:51And this is what we have achieved with the Temerario.
00:17:53Let me just quickly add one one experience.
00:17:56My first days when when I joined Lamborghini,
00:18:00I was sneaking around.
00:18:01I was walking around the factory and I have seen an Aventador
00:18:06in the in the in the production line without the engine.
00:18:09And I was looking into this into this empty space.
00:18:13And in this in this very moment, I understood what is Lamborghini about?
00:18:17Because we as designers, we are addressing this fantastic powertrain.
00:18:22Today we have a hybrid lineup.
00:18:24So all of our cars are hybrid.
00:18:26But for us, it's always important to understand, you know,
00:18:28this is that this is the very heart of every Lamborghini.
00:18:32So as you can tell, we were very clever in the arrangement of our guests.
00:18:36We have naturally aspirated V12 manual.
00:18:39We have pure electric supercar.
00:18:41And then we have hybrid best selling,
00:18:46you know, iconic Lamborghini.
00:18:49Three different approaches.
00:18:51Also during a week where they are highlighting the wedge class
00:18:57on on Sunday.
00:18:58So tomorrow you'll see a lot of very cool spaceshipy wedge supercars,
00:19:03including the Aston Martin Bulldog.
00:19:04Just got to get that out there.
00:19:05Very excited to see that running.
00:19:08I want to get back to that and talk to these guys
00:19:10about some of the influences for for these designs.
00:19:13But I'm curious and this might start a fistfight.
00:19:17Would any of you like to?
00:19:19These are all debuts, debut vehicles this week.
00:19:23Would you like to offer any critiques of your colleagues' vehicles
00:19:28and give them any pointers or your impressions of their cars?
00:19:32OK, I personally have walked the road many, many times
00:19:37to have. You know, full understanding of the challenges,
00:19:42challenges and the magnitude of accomplishment,
00:19:45what these guys have done and what we're doing.
00:19:48So any design feedback usually happens behind closed doors
00:19:52because that's just how we go.
00:19:54We're you know, we're also friends.
00:19:55We know each other for many years
00:19:58and having a vehicle that passes through all the gates,
00:20:02that passes through all the market requirements,
00:20:04passes through all the marketing, input, engineering, homologation,
00:20:08topics and crash testing, emission certification,
00:20:13dealer previews and dealer conferences.
00:20:16It's just not easy to single out design at this point in time,
00:20:21especially in a bigger corporate environment and and pin it
00:20:24onto the designer in that way, as it was maybe in the 70s
00:20:28where carrozzerias were so much more free in the way they express things.
00:20:31And perhaps turning it a little bit, sorry for being selfish in this respect,
00:20:35but turning it a bit towards us again, it felt very liberating
00:20:39designing this vehicle, especially because it's my dream
00:20:43from my childhood and not having layers of management or investors
00:20:48or or, you know, just other people telling me what not to do.
00:20:52It was an incredible experience.
00:20:54From that point of view, our current project in my career really is a stand out.
00:20:59So put another way, you're saying Micho probably had the hardest job, right?
00:21:04Because his car is going to be the has the iconic.
00:21:07A lot more board members saying how much? Yes.
00:21:11Let me add, not only the hardest job, but but also the job
00:21:14with the most responsibility and pressure to deliver
00:21:17because the company will pay salaries to hundreds of employees.
00:21:20And your success on the market really defines the well-being of families
00:21:24that work for that company.
00:21:26So it's it's I take my hat off and I'm only praising.
00:21:31I mean, it's important, of course, always to understand for every customer,
00:21:35for for all the experts, designers are working with full passion.
00:21:39A design team is working on the product, is working on the future.
00:21:45And everyone is really involved doing really the best.
00:21:49Design is something that when you have a world premiere,
00:21:52you know, the thing is out for us.
00:21:54It's like a baby that, you know, that you and you've been looking at it
00:21:58for six years. Exactly.
00:22:00And so you have a six year old view of it.
00:22:03And everyone else has to make a snap hot take.
00:22:06And we had an interesting discussion at breakfast this morning.
00:22:10And I said, how's the reception?
00:22:11And he said, it was really funny.
00:22:12He said, well, haters are going to hate.
00:22:14But people that I respect have said nice things about it.
00:22:19And another really good point I thought you brought up,
00:22:21you said that like the last Oricon was the STO and the Technica.
00:22:25And they're wild. They have wings.
00:22:26They have things sticking up out of them.
00:22:28And this is the kind of like what the Oricon was back in 2014.
00:22:34This is the first iteration.
00:22:35It will dragon eyes or, you know, turn into a more snarling Lamborghini.
00:22:40But I thought it was just a very that's not how we look at it.
00:22:43You know, we're just like Instagram quick, you know, this, that, the other.
00:22:47So, I mean, these days, you know, having Instagram, having social media,
00:22:53the audience is sometimes or it's all the time to to to quick, to fast.
00:22:58You know, the feedbacks are not reflected.
00:23:02And this is a little bit the mistake of of today.
00:23:07I spoke with Michael Mauer, the head of design of Porsche
00:23:10and the group designer of the Volkswagen Group, and he told me, Mitja, look,
00:23:15after the Porsche 356, when in 1963 the Porsche 911 was presented,
00:23:21everyone was like in shock.
00:23:23Yeah. You know, all the 356 guys were saying this car is not the Porsche.
00:23:27Too fat, too heavy backseat.
00:23:30They've lost the brand betrayal.
00:23:31They've lost the way Porsche's done.
00:23:33So therefore, I can only invite every car guy
00:23:38to to enjoy the cars, to to reflect.
00:23:41And then, you know, at the end of the day, car design is done for,
00:23:46you know, for the next 50 years, for the next 100 years.
00:23:49We want to do something that is timeless.
00:23:52And but again, for example, yesterday we had the presentation
00:23:56at the Quay Lodge with the Lamborghini Temerario.
00:23:59And I really enjoyed the people coming over.
00:24:03Horacio Pagani came, said, wow, it's a fantastic design.
00:24:06Ken Okuyama came over, said it's a fantastic design.
00:24:09Walter De Silva, that I really admire, came over and said it's a fantastic design.
00:24:14You told me you like it.
00:24:15I was. I mean, this is already filling up the bottle of happy.
00:24:20No, I mean, in the end of the day, as you say, we are in the silver
00:24:23as long as we get it, you know, you know, we are as a design team,
00:24:27of course, always fighting for the best solution.
00:24:30But there's also what Sascha said.
00:24:31There's always a board.
00:24:33So you have, you know, when you work for a bigger company,
00:24:36of course, you have board presentations, you have moments where the board
00:24:41is coming in and they just come out of an ugly meeting
00:24:45where they had to have a difficult decision.
00:24:47We're laying off a bunch of people and
00:24:51and the next week they come in relaxed as a designer, as a leader.
00:24:55You need to feel the moment.
00:24:56You need to take them virtually by the hand and bring them into the future.
00:25:01And we are able as designers to do the best job possible
00:25:04if our surrounding, if our team that is surrounding us,
00:25:08our deciders are letting us go into the future.
00:25:11But Davide, let me let me ask you, because Pininfarina has such a tremendous,
00:25:14really, design.
00:25:16Pininfarina is not known for anything else, really.
00:25:19You're starting to be known for producing cars.
00:25:22So what what is it like?
00:25:24Like, you know, Sasha has his wife.
00:25:27Misha has the Volkswagen Grip, also the wife.
00:25:30Well, yeah, but she's not.
00:25:32And what kind of pressures do you have?
00:25:36For sure, carry on a heritage so big.
00:25:39Sometimes I feel embarrassed and not ready yet to carry on, honestly,
00:25:43because Pininfarina for me was the dream when I was a kid.
00:25:47So that's that's natural imposters.
00:25:49I still get that, you know, I shouldn't be feeling really.
00:25:52I don't know.
00:25:52It's like being the son or the daughter of a famous person.
00:25:57So it's really takes a lot of to digest.
00:26:00So this is the first challenge.
00:26:02But Paolo Pininfarina was really supporting that.
00:26:05He was really close to us.
00:26:07He was the one actually that was pushing us to there.
00:26:11The example is Puravision, something that if you see from the picture
00:26:15is unconventional and people doesn't understand what it is until you are not
00:26:19facing. But when I still remember his face when he saw it the first time
00:26:24and he say like, yes, we have to dare.
00:26:27This is a true Pininfarina.
00:26:28So try to innovate that also where people may be at the first look,
00:26:32find something strange.
00:26:33This is the courage that we want to put to put ahead.
00:26:36The problem is that, of course, I'm no one.
00:26:38So I'm just the beginning of something.
00:26:41And sometimes I feel too much pressure.
00:26:43The second is that my boss or our boss
00:26:47are the client in the in the volume that we are working
00:26:50is the client that they have to really pay millions for something
00:26:54that must be collectible and keep the value for the future.
00:26:58This is a difficult question.
00:26:59So that's why we are putting all our energy to understand exactly
00:27:02what is he looking for.
00:27:04And we try to design as much as we can.
00:27:06Crazy things for, you know, makes the wow effect on the face of the customer.
00:27:11Just a stupid example.
00:27:12The last car that we presented has a cigar humidor in between the seats.
00:27:18Oh, good, because it's a cigar lover.
00:27:21So we imagine the face of engineer when they look at me and say,
00:27:25do you want to put a cigar humidor there?
00:27:27But this is what the customer wants.
00:27:29So this is my part of the story that I want to share.
00:27:33Very. I would like that.
00:27:34Did you feel any additional pressure with this Warner Brothers?
00:27:39So you've done this collaboration
00:27:41with the DC Comics Batman franchise to create Bruce Wayne's car.
00:27:46This is if you and where is where will it be?
00:27:49It will be on the concept car lawn tomorrow.
00:27:51No, because we have our Jardin de Pinin Farina on 17 My Drive.
00:27:56OK, and actually this evening there will be an important dinner with them.
00:28:01I can share a quick story at the beginning when somebody called us
00:28:06and they say, I want to talk with the chief design officer.
00:28:08I pick up the phone call and I say like, guys, this is a scam.
00:28:12Cannot be, you know, like and then they say, share the details.
00:28:16And then we received the official invitation to talk with them
00:28:19because they choose us to represent in the real world.
00:28:22Bruce Wayne and Batman. And this was a shock.
00:28:25And of course, we try to represent with the product that we have,
00:28:30you know, not starting from scratch, try to do something for them
00:28:35and a possible client and represent the character, the personality.
00:28:40And they check.
00:28:42Trust me, every single millimetre, easter egg, logos, concept,
00:28:47what we are saying.
00:28:48So it was difficult in that sense.
00:28:50On the other side, it was really a joy meeting Jim Lee.
00:28:55He sketched the car.
00:28:56He's going to sketch the car for the customer.
00:28:58The overall experience is what we are looking for.
00:29:00So the customer is you will have overall experience
00:29:04aside of having a really highly collectible car.
00:29:07Yeah. Jim Lee is the DC comic book story artist
00:29:11that's most responsible for the current stage of Batman did now.
00:29:17I was asking I was asking one of your PR people, why did they choose?
00:29:21Like, why would you put the Batman logo and specifically that one on
00:29:25on Bruce Wayne's car?
00:29:26No one's supposed to know that Bruce Wayne is Batman, right?
00:29:29No, actually, I really love their storytelling
00:29:33because the main character here is Bruce Wayne,
00:29:37because we are talking about trying to establish a connection
00:29:40to the hyper luxury.
00:29:42So that's why they say Automobili Pininfarina is really have
00:29:45this kind of sophisticated elegance that could match a possible Bruce Wayne.
00:29:51So and then the alter ego Batman is part of one single character.
00:29:57So even as I'm a big fan.
00:29:59So when you're referring to them in this way, it's not two people.
00:30:02It's just one person that has the alter ego.
00:30:06So that's why it's really sophisticated.
00:30:08And they're really picky on that.
00:30:09And they deserve it to be like this because it's
00:30:13one of the most famous character in the world.
00:30:15I love him. Doesn't have superpower.
00:30:17It's cool.
00:30:19Let me let me ask.
00:30:20So, you know, tomorrow's the big day, the big show.
00:30:24Eventually, I predict and I think very accurately
00:30:27all three of you in the future will have cars that you've designed
00:30:31that are going to be shown on the lawn, you know, right.
00:30:35And, you know, when you're when you're older, when you're gone, like what?
00:30:39Like, is that ever in your head when you're sitting there with?
00:30:42Well, I know, Sasha, you use a computer, but if you're with you,
00:30:45Johnny, nobody's going to be gone.
00:30:46Our consciousness will be right.
00:30:48Right. When you're uploaded to the cloud to that looking down,
00:30:50our brains will be in jars.
00:30:51But when you when you're sketching, is there ever into your head
00:30:54or is that something like, oh, yeah, that's crazy.
00:30:57Like, what's that like to have this, you know, because
00:31:01you'll outlast your self.
00:31:05That's a really good question.
00:31:06And it is actually very important for me because I like music, for example.
00:31:11And for me, the awesome thing about music is that it doesn't have an expiration
00:31:14date and something truly wonderful lives on.
00:31:17As long as you want to hear it, you can just go ahead and listen to it.
00:31:20Even if the artist is long since gone,
00:31:22their art isn't becoming irrelevant.
00:31:24You know, once they stop touring, there's still recordings left.
00:31:27And I put a lot of what we all do.
00:31:30But I'm speaking from my side of the fence here.
00:31:32I put a lot of heart and soul into the cars that I work on.
00:31:36And they cost me
00:31:39a serious amount of psychological and emotional damage.
00:31:43Not only good, but also damage.
00:31:45And I hope that the sacrifice is made by my family
00:31:49and people around me and myself.
00:31:51Ultimately, bring pleasure and joy for longer
00:31:55than just the typical product life cycle that that feels like a wasted effort.
00:32:01Although, of course, it converts into financial success for the company
00:32:04and pays the salaries I mentioned earlier.
00:32:06But in the true artistic sense, in the sense of kind of being a creator,
00:32:11you, of course, hope that the love and pain that you put into your work
00:32:15can can somehow live on.
00:32:18I guess a lot of our personality also goes into those cars.
00:32:22So in some way, they are weirdly avatars of us and of my voice.
00:32:27So if I'm not around, perhaps some of some of the emotions get baked into them
00:32:31and then live on and bring joy to those after.
00:32:35Mietje, same question.
00:32:36Yeah, I have I have not yet thought about this topic, I have to say.
00:32:42So therefore, I'm saying, you know, better, you know, positive feedback is welcome.
00:32:47Now, not when I'm dead, I have to say.
00:32:51Yeah, good point. A very good point.
00:32:53So, no, I mean, I like also the music topic of Sascha.
00:32:59In our case, or in my case, I like to compare Lamborghini
00:33:04also a little bit with like with music.
00:33:06No, in the end of the day, a car design itself is like there's a rhythm around the car.
00:33:12So, for example, Temerario is having this hexagon and this hexagon is the rhythm,
00:33:17the beat that is designing this car all around.
00:33:20In Lamborghini, of course, we are aiming for a timeless design.
00:33:26We want for sure no one will ever throw away a Lamborghini.
00:33:29So we want a beautiful Lamborghini also in 20 years, in 50 years.
00:33:33And it is very sustainable, you know.
00:33:35It's different than like designing a midsize family SUV, which is kind of disposable.
00:33:40This like I'm sure the numbers like 99 percent of all Lamborghinis ever made are still on the road.
00:33:45Something like that.
00:33:46In front of you are sitting the most sustainable people on this planet,
00:33:50because we are creating dream objects that will survive in 50, 100, 150 years.
00:33:57This is clear.
00:33:58And that's why a timeless design is very important.
00:34:01You need to think about it. It's like that.
00:34:03The design has to be timeless.
00:34:06In Lamborghini, we play a rhythm with the design language.
00:34:10As you know, Lamborghini is about the silhouette line.
00:34:13You can recognize a Lamborghini from far away by the silhouette, by the architecture,
00:34:17by the front view that is defined, by the way, by the Countach with the strong inclinated side windows.
00:34:24But the rhythm, the music is like an artist that is surviving 20, 30, 40 years.
00:34:31It's not a big secret.
00:34:32My favorite band is Depeche Mode.
00:34:35And it's a band that is now on since 40 years.
00:34:39And you can only survive such a long period if you have your DNA.
00:34:43But you are then always playing a new song, a new rhythm, a new beat, a new sound.
00:34:49And the people will recognize that as the band,
00:34:53but they are always transforming themselves into the future.
00:34:56And I see this like Lamborghini.
00:34:57So with the music that we play, Lamborghini is our band.
00:35:01But the Temerario, the Revuelto, all these cars are playing a new song, a new rhythm.
00:35:07One is a bit more rock and roll.
00:35:08One is maybe techno.
00:35:10And the other one is a little bit, I don't know, a mix of both of that.
00:35:14Right.
00:35:14It's interesting because, you know, and I've said this to you specifically,
00:35:17but I think it applies to every, you know, hypercar, supercar designers generally.
00:35:20Like, you sort of have the easiest job in the world because all you got to do is like,
00:35:24you want to make a 12-year-old boy look at your car, jump in the air and start screaming, right?
00:35:30That's kind of the job.
00:35:32But you can't just, you know, copy and paste.
00:35:37They've got to look different.
00:35:38They've got to do different things.
00:35:40So Davide, like, how do you think about, like, you know, the past of what a supercar was and a hypercar was?
00:35:48And I think Sasha's right and Meech is right.
00:35:51It all kind of goes back to the Countach was really like when the world was like, whoa, you know, this is a spaceship.
00:35:58But like, you know, how do you take that and filter it forward?
00:36:02Like, you know, what's that process?
00:36:06What a question.
00:36:07So it's really complicated to define what will be in 20 years time, something successful or not.
00:36:18But at least in the heart of the designer, we are the purest, closer things to the customer.
00:36:25Because we have the balls to see the project from the heart,
00:36:31not from the Excel file that bring the initiative to square one, green, thumbs up.
00:36:38Right.
00:36:39So we are the killer of engineer and business case.
00:36:42But aside of that, what we want to do is challenge all the system and putting always on the edge to create something.
00:36:52I agree with both of my colleagues that maybe leave the sign for forever and maybe it will be meaningful not today, not tomorrow, but in 10 years, in 15 years.
00:37:03So I have a poster, maybe to make an example of what I'm trying to explain, framed at home that say, remember why you started.
00:37:13And my dream was not becoming famous, maybe rich.
00:37:16Yes, I'm not there yet.
00:37:17I cannot buy a Batista, but still working on it.
00:37:21Same.
00:37:23I hope your boss is listening.
00:37:26Exactly.
00:37:27And my dream was to try to create at least something, one car or a part of a car that people may be in 20 years time, 30 years time.
00:37:37I'm like me, I think I love to think by myself that I'm alive.
00:37:41But maybe my daughter, my little daughter, two years old daughter can say, my dad work on that.
00:37:51And then if he's going to say with his boyfriend, I'm going to kill him, but he say, oh, look at this car.
00:37:56And then she can say, you know, he's the first one to create that specific car intake.
00:38:02What was my father when he's team to work on it?
00:38:04This put the smile on my face.
00:38:07Then, of course, success, company, it's something that comes all together in the world that we are.
00:38:13But if you ask the kids inside of me, in the future, I really believe that super sports car, hyper car are the segment that we stay forever.
00:38:22Doesn't matter the technology, but what the story and the passion that there is behind every engineering and process to get there.
00:38:29At least this is for me.
00:38:32So I want to, that's great because it brings us kind of back to where we started and with Sasha's first answer regarding the powertrains, right?
00:38:42Like EVs have made sort of commodified speed, right?
00:38:48Like you, who can, zero to 60 and now it's under two seconds.
00:38:53It's in one second.
00:38:54Look, the Romance Navara holds every acceleration record there is.
00:38:59Right.
00:38:59And then they released a more powerful version of it yesterday.
00:39:01Right.
00:39:02So do, right.
00:39:03So then what defines, you said emotion, but we haven't really talked about the look.
00:39:10The, you know, everything you're doing from the sketching and the clay modeling, how do you, how do you put that emotion or whatever it is that needs to define these hyper cars?
00:39:22How do you summarize that?
00:39:24Well, I guess, yeah, I can elaborate a little bit.
00:39:26In my mind, when you have a stat like a zero to 60 acceleration and actually Johnny and I kind of brainstormed on that topic through the last few weeks.
00:39:38I don't want to have a number next to that.
00:39:40I don't want to say acceleration of this car is this and many seconds to 160 miles per hour.
00:39:45I want the message to be, it depends on the driver.
00:39:50It really just depends on the driver.
00:39:51It's about you developing a relationship with a car that you own and learning to apply all of its torque and all of its power, working that throttle pedal and making sure you shift at the right time and perfecting your shifts.
00:40:04And that level of engagement with a vehicle makes the stats that much more exciting when you can achieve them with your own talent and with your own ability.
00:40:14Instead of just switching on a button that says, here's your launch or here's your mode and pick the right mode, pick the right deployment strategy for your battery.
00:40:23And you see people going through all these menus and screens trying to get their cars primed and ready for action.
00:40:29There should just be three pedals, a shifter, a steering wheel, and they should be so satisfying in this kind of mechanical way.
00:40:36I'm really talking about our vision.
00:40:38I'm not saying that for whatever reasons others have got it wrong.
00:40:41God, no.
00:40:42But what I believe in and what our company is going to be doing is engaging the driver at every step of the way and making sure that the stats are only relevant to that driver's level and skill and talent and ability to improve.
00:40:56And that also, in my mind, creates a longer lasting relationship with a vehicle because the more you perfect it, it becomes more like you own a horse and that's your horse and that is your friend.
00:41:06And I want to make sure that by going back in terms of technology to the roots, we enable that more intimate relationship between the driver and the vehicle.
00:41:14That, I guess, is the summary.
00:41:16And just to elaborate on the driver dependent for the zero to 60, like, you know, the Tesla Plaid famously hits 60 miles an hour.
00:41:23I think, what do we get, Ed?
00:41:23We got like 1.999999.
00:41:25On a prepped surface.
00:41:27Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair.
00:41:29But yeah, it's 1,020 horsepower.
00:41:31Well, the Romance Navara R they showed yesterday is 2,200 horsepower and I think they said 1.75.
00:41:39So it's more than 100% more power to knock off 0.2 seconds.
00:41:44So it's just become this kind of meaningless endeavor.
00:41:51And so, yeah, so I think that is interesting.
00:41:54That said, and Dava, to refute this, I did do a full launch in your car, which, again, is 1,950 horsepower.
00:42:03Well, that doesn't make a difference, but I loved it.
00:42:06Like, yeah, okay, it's over, except that was quicker than a Plaid.
00:42:09And like, yeah, and I've done the Plaid.
00:42:12I've done the Lucid Sapphire, which is crazier than the Plaid.
00:42:16But then I did that thing.
00:42:18And sure, it's over, but it's also still fantastic.
00:42:22Like, it's really, it was special, you know.
00:42:27I mean, the thing that is difficult for us, that we are a really small company, so we have to let this, let me deliver this experience one by one.
00:42:37We are not left prototype to spare or to spread around the world, but not because I'm working on it.
00:42:45But it's, what we try to give to the customer is the feeling of extreme grip,
00:42:52safetiness by driving so much power that is more than enough to have fun.
00:42:57And lateral acceleration is something that should surprise you.
00:43:02The car, it is heavy for being a sports car, but it's not that much when you take the steering wheel,
00:43:08and then when you start to drive, you have immediately the smile on the face.
00:43:12This is what we are trying to do.
00:43:14True story.
00:43:15I'm a car guy, so I love X-House Pipe too.
00:43:18I'm driving that thing every day.
00:43:20But we are not trying to replace nobody here.
00:43:24Actually, we're trying to create something highly collectible.
00:43:26This is the goal.
00:43:28And maybe you are happy, but I can say for the first time worldwide that we are Automobili Pininfarina and we want to design cars.
00:43:37We never say what we are.
00:43:39We are a luxury company, and maybe in the future, actually, who says that we are only electric?
00:43:46Fair.
00:43:47And Mischa, I was going to ask you, I remember when you were talking yesterday,
00:43:51or when Winkleman, I think, was talking, he said that the new one has, the Temerario, has 13 modes.
00:43:58Was that correct?
00:43:59Yes.
00:44:00Okay, so Sascha is saying no modes, 13 modes.
00:44:02Too many, according to Sascha.
00:44:04What, speak about what Lamborghini is up to with that.
00:44:09I mean, we do believe in a holistic approach.
00:44:11Let me quickly go...
00:44:13Please.
00:44:15Let's get a different thought.
00:44:17When I was 14, my first little motorcycle had 3 horsepower.
00:44:22We went into the woods, we were crossing around, and we had the fun of our lives.
00:44:27Then later on, I took another motorcycle with 10 horsepower.
00:44:31Then my first car, I'm from East Germany, was a Trabant, 26 horsepower.
00:44:36No one knows this car, but it's...
00:44:38By the way, maybe 26 horsepower.
00:44:40Maybe 26 horsepower.
00:44:42Then I was aiming for 150 horsepower Honda CRX, because at the time, I was dreaming about,
00:44:50I was a fan of Senna, I wanted to have this car, it was fitting to me, the CRX.
00:44:55But, you know, I think when all of us remember on our first cars, motorcycles, whatever,
00:45:03they always gave us goosebumps, always, no?
00:45:05And it doesn't matter, 3 horsepower or 10, or later, today, I have a Panigale, Ducati,
00:45:10215 horsepower.
00:45:12It is not about just the pure power, it is how you provide this power.
00:45:17And the goosebumps in Lamborghini, again, coming back to the holistic approach, is first
00:45:22of all, you need sound, first of all, you need vibrations, you need to have a cool look
00:45:27from the outside, you need to have an interior that is engaging you.
00:45:31We do believe in physical buttons, you will always, you know, when I joined Lamborghini,
00:45:36you know, I was waiting like a child to, you know, for the first time to switch on this
00:45:41engine, lifting our cover of our stop button, which is really iconic.
00:45:47So it is the general, you know, it's the mix of everything that is creating the goosebumps.
00:45:55And you can have the goosebumps with 200 horsepower, as I guess you, I never drove it with 2,000
00:46:00horsepower, but I'm inviting myself now.
00:46:04It's a pleasure.
00:46:05It's pretty goosebumpy.
00:46:07But in the end of the day, and also here, design is for sure also in a way in the lead,
00:46:13you know, because we are then designing all these experiences.
00:46:17And in the end of the day, we are all here together to create those goosebumps.
00:46:22Let me ask you, because again, another thing that all three of you have in common is, right
00:46:25now, currently, you're all designing cars that nobody needs, but people dream about,
00:46:31right?
00:46:32You all were trained.
00:46:35Was there ever any training, like, this is the designing dreams class, or was it always
00:46:39like, all right, here's, you know, we're going to be pumping out commodities, and here's
00:46:42how you maximize spaces and minimize costs?
00:46:46Was there ever any training or is just your passion led you to design hypercars and supercars
00:46:51and dream cars?
00:46:53I think, I mean, we are, as designers, always the first fan of our brand.
00:46:59We are the ones that know perfectly the history.
00:47:03We know we have the talent and also how to translate this history into a future.
00:47:09We have all this imagination and this talent.
00:47:14And that's, I think, the driving force that a company always can have.
00:47:20And inside of Lamborghini, for sure, this is very important, because that's exactly
00:47:26creating this inspiration.
00:47:28Yeah, so I guess, from my point of view, I started my career in Volkswagen Group, and
00:47:36I worked on Jettas and Touaregs and Golfs almost half of my career.
00:47:42Of course, I always dreamed of creating hyper sports cars.
00:47:45As a child, I was in love with sports cars, Formula One, racing in general.
00:47:50So there was definitely a career, let's say, vector that I was keen on, whether it was
00:47:56going to come to fruition or not.
00:47:58I didn't know back then.
00:47:59It did, thankfully.
00:48:00So what is really important for me in every project, be it hypercar or a golf cart, it
00:48:08doesn't matter.
00:48:09It's the ideals of form following function and doing things that make sense.
00:48:13And when I'm allowed to exercise these very puristic, very simple, very basic ideas on
00:48:18a project, it gives me reward.
00:48:22It's very difficult in the regular car segment to stick to these beliefs, because regular
00:48:26cars are now objects of fashion.
00:48:28They get kind of replaced every two and a half years with the next generation.
00:48:32They are disposable.
00:48:33I don't actually appreciate the idea of disposable products, because that just feels to me wrong.
00:48:39I'd rather discuss the sustainability from that angle than outright, I don't know, emission
00:48:44standards or tightening of regulations.
00:48:46I think longevity of the product is more important, and making it consequential in
00:48:51terms of design following function is what gives me the satisfaction.
00:48:55And in the hypercar world, I found opportunities to express that belief.
00:48:59In the regular car world, I'm still waiting for a car company to do products that are
00:49:04meaningful in this Bauhaus way.
00:49:06Davide.
00:49:07I agree.
00:49:09The only training is be yourself, do mistake, rework your thoughts, adapt yourself, do mistake
00:49:18again.
00:49:19So, this is the path that all designers have to pass through.
00:49:22You have to be judged by multiple people, that they see the project from different perspective.
00:49:28When you are younger, you are so attentive to every single line that everyone touch your
00:49:33lines.
00:49:34I don't know it's perfect like this.
00:49:35You have to learn how to compensate that.
00:49:38Everybody likes editing, yeah.
00:49:39Yeah, now that I'm wearing the jacket of a boss, I understand the pain when the people
00:49:44say like, no, the bumper should be like this or whatever.
00:49:47But there is a reason why.
00:49:49And I think that the only training is that.
00:49:51So continue to, don't lose the capability to dream, even if you are constrained by a
00:49:58big corporate or you're working with a customer.
00:50:00So that's why I have a big admiration, a very big admiration for what Sasha is doing, because
00:50:07honestly, it takes really big balls to do it.
00:50:09He's exposing himself.
00:50:11And what the people don't understand, the perspective from designers, that we have really
00:50:19the courage to showcase what we are dreaming of.
00:50:21And everyone from there so far to judging, who knows and who dare to say something in
00:50:27the process of five years, six years of process, why the line is not perfect as it is.
00:50:33We are not stupid.
00:50:34We like what you like.
00:50:36But the thing is like we have to work really hard to keep the car, the final car closer
00:50:41to the dream.
00:50:42And trust me, trust us.
00:50:44It's a really hard job.
00:50:46It's a really hard job.
00:50:47I mean, I do believe also in the combination of design and performance.
00:50:53All of our cars, they have high top speeds and they have an incredible performance.
00:50:59So therefore, it is today absolutely important that a designer is also then understanding
00:51:07this team play, this interplay, this cross-functional play with the engineers.
00:51:13You know, you were striving this before.
00:51:16So maybe, I don't know, 30 years ago, 50 years ago, there was more freedom.
00:51:20But on the other hand, the technology that we have in our hands today is allowing us
00:51:26to do things that were also impossible to create some decades ago.
00:51:31So therefore, in my team, I always make advertisement for the philosophy to work together.
00:51:41And Lamborghini is, I mean, you know perfectly, it's a small family, it's a small brand.
00:51:46So to solve a topic, you can just walk over to the next office and you talk about it and
00:51:51you solve it and you can feel this in the products.
00:51:54But that sort of collaboration, and I've been doing this long enough now that I've
00:51:57seen that changing kind of across the industry, but I mean famously, I believe it was Lamborghini
00:52:01where somebody was going to design something and the engineer said, you make the wrapper
00:52:06for the engine, that's your job.
00:52:09And so there was no collaboration, it was like, you know.
00:52:12So have you noticed this, especially maybe Sasha, when you were doing Jettas and Touaregs,
00:52:19were designers talking to engineers or was it just like, here's the hard points, do your best?
00:52:26It's a very important point and that's also what has led me on the path of starting my
00:52:29own company.
00:52:31Traditionally, designers have a very clearly defined role in the process.
00:52:36And while a lot of responsibility is on the shoulders of the designer, because ultimate
00:52:39market success very much depends on whether the customer likes the product or not.
00:52:44So responsibility is there.
00:52:46But on a strategic level, when it comes to vehicle architecture, packaging, dimensions,
00:52:51componentry, supply chain decisions, you're lucky, in my experience, if you're a fly on
00:52:56the wall in those conversations in a bigger company.
00:52:59You're lucky if you're accidentally part of a board meeting where you're presenting your
00:53:03design strategy and you're told you can stick around and hear the rest of the conversation.
00:53:08That frustrated me as a car guy because I never saw my role as that of a designer.
00:53:12I want to be a car creator.
00:53:14I don't want to just style the outside.
00:53:16And all of us in our positions, I'm sure Micha is doing that every day, and Davide fought
00:53:20for more responsibility and more control over the product's entire development process.
00:53:26And for me, that level of engagement first came at Koenigsegg when I worked alongside
00:53:30Christian and he opened all the doors for me.
00:53:34Everything that I was curious about, it was, doors are open, go for it.
00:53:37And I found myself designing things like headers for the Jesko, doing the intake and the exhaust
00:53:43manifold on that car together with my design team and learning about subframes and learning
00:53:47about different materials and how they react to heat and how you can repackage it.
00:53:54Sections of the monocoque, building new crash structures, going in depth into a vehicle
00:53:58and slowly becoming more of an engineer.
00:54:00I don't think of myself as a designer anymore.
00:54:03I want to turn that page of my career and become a creator of vehicles and for that
00:54:08intimate knowledge of engineering, because you shouldn't be pulling the blanket onto
00:54:11the design side.
00:54:12You should be pulling the blanket onto what makes a better product side.
00:54:16And then that means letting go also of your roots as a designer and thinking more about
00:54:21the whole vehicle.
00:54:22Yeah, that's, that's interesting, because that actually...
00:54:25I would like to add also to Sascha's speech.
00:54:30We are basically also at the dawn of a year, because we were speaking about the year 2035
00:54:36future.
00:54:37So we are as designers, you know.
00:54:42We are on the dawn also to have more influence in the future.
00:54:45So a lot of companies are now talking about design-driven companies.
00:54:51You know, you have already Thomas Englert, that is a designer, being a CEO of a car brand.
00:54:56Polestar, yeah.
00:54:57So, and Polestar, yeah.
00:54:59So you see a dawn, you see the race and you see the importance of design.
00:55:04So and I mean, Pagani, Horatio Pagani, you know, he, for example, he was an interior
00:55:10designer at first, and the next year, yeah.
00:55:12Exactly.
00:55:13So I assume that in 10 years from now, or in 15 years from now, you will have a much
00:55:18higher influence from designers.
00:55:21Because as we say, we have anyway, the cross-functional, you know, the design object is always the
00:55:29melting pot of any problem anyway.
00:55:31You know, if something is not working, you need to discuss this on the design model.
00:55:36If you want to make a decision for the future, you need to take the design model.
00:55:40If you want to decide the wheelbase or whatever, you need to have this design model.
00:55:44So designers today, and this is for me always important, we are much more, much more disciplinated
00:55:52than maybe 20 years ago.
00:55:54You know, what I personally don't like is, for example, this image of the designer that
00:55:58is sleeping until 10 o'clock in the morning, going a little bit of surfing, and then at
00:56:04two o'clock, he has this magical idea for the sketch.
00:56:07It's not the case.
00:56:08You know, we are highly professional.
00:56:11We have fantastic teams.
00:56:13We are there when it's necessary, on the weekend, at the night, whenever, whatever it takes,
00:56:19we are there.
00:56:21But the companies are understanding this.
00:56:24And that's why I'm very optimistic that design will be more and more important also in the
00:56:30future.
00:56:31I noticed none of you are wearing black turtlenecks, so that's refreshing.
00:56:34So I want to be conscious of time.
00:56:36We have about 10 minutes left.
00:56:38We should open it up for questions.
00:56:40Well, let's go one place first.
00:56:42First of all, where can we see NILU 27?
00:56:46I just got a text message before coming on stage that they were unloading it at the Concept
00:56:51Lawn.
00:56:52So it's just a three-minute walk down to Pebble Beach Lodge, and you'll see it right there.
00:56:56Beautiful car.
00:56:57So you can check out Sasha's baby down at the Concept Car Lawn.
00:57:00It'll be out there all tomorrow, right?
00:57:01Thank you, Ed.
00:57:02Yes, absolutely.
00:57:04And yours is at the house, the Pininfarina house?
00:57:07Yes, we are on the 70-mile drive, 3410.
00:57:11It's a private event, but luckily today, there will be the very first Batista Parade ever.
00:57:17There will be a lineup of 10 cars, one of the most exclusive cars of our customer.
00:57:23I was a driver.
00:57:24I will be a driver.
00:57:25So this, for me, it's a crazy day.
00:57:28I cannot wait to get there and drive the car.
00:57:31We are going to make this parade that is passing through Carmel.
00:57:35We go in the Concorso Italiano.
00:57:38We are going to drive to the coast, and we start this experience from Osteria del Mar.
00:57:46I don't know if you know the place.
00:57:48And this is, maybe for all the followers, the perfect moment to spot all Batista altogether
00:57:56and see the difference one by one.
00:57:58And then, Miche?
00:57:59Tomorrow, I will have another dream day in front of me.
00:58:02I'm an honorary judge at the field, so it will be fun.
00:58:08And then, if my skin is not burned yet, I will go then also to the concept car lawn
00:58:15because we will join Sascha's car with our Temerario.
00:58:19And tomorrow is special because it will be our lightweight package.
00:58:22So we have here two cars.
00:58:24The matte blue one we presented yesterday in the Quay Lodge.
00:58:27And tomorrow, there will be the glossy green lightweight package with a lot of carbon fiber.
00:58:32And please be welcome to see this car.
00:58:36Amazing.
00:58:37Okay.
00:58:38And then, I just want to do one more quick lightning round.
00:58:40Again, very cool class tomorrow on the lawn.
00:58:43It's the wedge supercars.
00:58:45So I don't know if you've seen all of them or at least heard of them that are in the
00:58:50class, but what's your favorite, doesn't have to be on the lawn tomorrow, favorite wedge
00:58:54car of all time or one from this weekend?
00:58:57And I'll go first.
00:58:59The Pininfarina, the HPX, the Honda.
00:59:02That one is super cool.
00:59:04If you get a chance to see it, it's got this cool glass, all glass canopy and these amazing
00:59:09streaks on the side.
00:59:10A product of Automobili Pininfarina.
00:59:12Sascha, do you have a favorite wedge on the lawn or just in general?
00:59:16I have so many favorite wedges.
00:59:17The 512S Pininfarina show car, the Modulo, the Maserati Boomerang, the Stratostero.
00:59:26Don't take them all.
00:59:27Save some for these guys.
00:59:28I love them all.
00:59:29It's very difficult.
00:59:30Sorry.
00:59:31Giugiaro cars and Gandini cars from that era are just, yeah, they're very high on the inspiration
00:59:36list.
00:59:37Davide?
00:59:38Yeah.
00:59:39I'm like Sascha.
00:59:40I love all type of car, all the brand, specifically in different eras.
00:59:44But if I have to pick something that is really close to my heart, but more today than when
00:59:49I was a kid, is the 250 short wheel base from the 60 from Pininfarina.
00:59:54It's probably the most terrific, balanced, elegant sports car ever made.
01:00:00Got a favorite wedge?
01:00:02Lancia Stratos Zero.
01:00:05That's a good answer.
01:00:06I mean, so, yeah.
01:00:07But I would just say they're all wrong.
01:00:08It's the Vector W8 is the most stunning wedge of all.
01:00:15The problem with wedge cars is they usually are great coming at you, and then the back
01:00:17is just sort of...
01:00:19The back of the Vector is even better than the front.
01:00:22And it was driving.
01:00:23I saw the tour, all the wedge cars go by.
01:00:27I've never driven one.
01:00:28I hear that they're miserable cars to drive.
01:00:30Rest in peace, Jerry.
01:00:31But man, does it stop a show.
01:00:34It's just like...
01:00:35It's awesome.
01:00:36Okay.
01:00:37So we have about seven minutes left.
01:00:39Do we have a question in the audience?
01:00:40We have a gentleman right here.
01:00:42Mike is coming to you.
01:00:44Your name, please, sir, and your question.
01:00:46Hear me?
01:00:47Yes, sir.
01:00:48John Duddy.
01:00:49Yeah, I just wanted to ask a general question.
01:00:55I'll use the Depeche Mode when you reach out and touch Faith.
01:00:58But then you get a concept to the time span where you would have an expectation to see
01:01:04that car on the road.
01:01:05Do you have like any expectations yourself about from the time you design it to the time
01:01:12you see that thing driving?
01:01:15Expectations from the time you put...
01:01:17First the idea comes, you put paper to pen, and then see it down the road.
01:01:22I would guess based on how deep Sasha went on that there's a lot of soul-crushing things
01:01:27that happen in that phase, right, at the bigger companies.
01:01:30You might draw something that you really love, and what comes out is either not yours or
01:01:35something very different.
01:01:36No, I think that the struggle is an essential part.
01:01:40I believe that if you haven't really struggled, the achievement is kind of moot.
01:01:44I really believe that the level of, let's say, emotional turmoil that you go through,
01:01:52it really does help the car ultimately.
01:01:54So I don't want to say I create torturous conditions for myself on purpose, but I do
01:01:58end up choosing paths that take me to places where I just feel, yeah, challenged, massively
01:02:03challenged, and then usually that leads to a result that I'm ultimately pretty proud
01:02:08of.
01:02:10I'll give you guys a very brief example.
01:02:11Unloading the car the day before yesterday at the ramp to present it to the audience.
01:02:15It was my first time with my own company, and it's my wife and I, and my brother was
01:02:20there, and one more friend, and Nelson Hartley from New Zealand, four people, and we're there
01:02:24trying to find sandbags to make sure our beach flags don't fall down, and we're there trying
01:02:29to make sure the car comes out of the trailer in one piece, and there's always stuff that
01:02:33breaks, and we're repairing it, and touching up areas of paint.
01:02:38This level of, I didn't expect that in my 40s I would be starting from scratch in such
01:02:44a major way, and I was pampered in car companies.
01:02:47I had a wonderful career.
01:02:49So zero regrets, but the paint part is very important.
01:02:53It really kind of brings the soul into the product.
01:02:56Anyone else want to take it, or any other questions we have?
01:03:00I mean, I can take it, I mean, just feelings that I have when I see cars that I contributed
01:03:08to the design.
01:03:09You know, now, I don't know, the first one where I was involved is from 2009, and so,
01:03:14you know, when I see, when I sit in the car and I see any car driving past that I was
01:03:20involved, I'm always like, oh God, this should have been better, you know?
01:03:25You see, I mean, all the stories are coming back, you know, for, you know, I did the Macan,
01:03:32I see the Macan driving, the Porsche Macan, and then I remember when we were modeling
01:03:37the rear end, or I see literally the moment when we did the clay modeling of the car,
01:03:43yeah?
01:03:44But then also some details on other cars where you say, hmm, this was maybe, you know, this
01:03:50was a mistake, but you did it in the next project again, and then our cars where you
01:03:54say, wow, this one is really, hmm, this is, hmm, not so bad, yeah?
01:03:59So I mean, at the end of the day, we are the ones that are sharing those feelings very
01:04:05deeply inside of us.
01:04:07Let's do another question.
01:04:09Hi, my name is Armin.
01:04:11I was actually recently looking today at the Ferrari lineup, and I have to say, a lot of
01:04:18the cars look really similar to each other, and I feel like where is it, where can we
01:04:25find a balance between bold and standing out and being unique, but then not super bold
01:04:32like you have the Cybertruck where it's kind of an eyesore?
01:04:35Where can we find a balance between too bold and too unison, too similar to each other?
01:04:42This is a great, wow, this is a great question.
01:04:44So let's go for another hour, and this is great, because we allow these gentlemen to
01:04:48talk about Ferrari, and you threw in Cybertruck, too.
01:04:51Let's have the Pininfarina guy talk about Ferrari.
01:04:53Yeah, let's start with Davide and Ferrari, because there's some relationship there.
01:04:57What a cool ball.
01:04:58Dude, thank you.
01:05:01Well, first of all, I love all the cars that they do.
01:05:08It's really tough, the work that our colleague Flavio is doing, because he's doing a lot
01:05:13of cars, and you have to surprise everyone, and also you have to, I believe, respect a
01:05:19lot of market.
01:05:20So this is the biggest challenge that I think that he has.
01:05:25So again, I cannot judge, because he's probably the biggest expert in this field, just at
01:05:32the beginning, but of course, taste of the customer counts, and maybe the one that are
01:05:38really connoisseur and they are really, they are loving, or they love so much the heritage,
01:05:47then of course there is a quite marriage between Pininfarina and Ferrari, right?
01:05:53So of course, the one that we love more, or maybe the one that you love more, are connected
01:05:59to the past, but this is the challenge that every designer has.
01:06:02So I believe that any cars, you can fall in love for your perspective, or maybe from the
01:06:09perspective for another customer, and this is the most polite way to answer that.
01:06:15Real quick, professional car reviewer here, the Roma and the SP3 Daytona are like all-time
01:06:21classics.
01:06:22You can't build more beautiful cars than those.
01:06:25Those are phenomenal.
01:06:26If I may.
01:06:27But how about Michel?
01:06:28Any thoughts?
01:06:29No, I do believe in strong DNAs of all of our brands.
01:06:37I mean, we are, I think we are all working in such fantastic brands, and all of them
01:06:45have their place.
01:06:46Again, it's like music, you know, there is Depeche Mode, there is Metallica, there is
01:06:51Madonna, there is, you know, and everyone has his place.
01:06:54So important is, and that's, you know, I learned from Walter De Silva, it's all about the design
01:07:01criteria.
01:07:02So you need to have a design DNA, you need to have a clear mission for your brand, and
01:07:08Lamborghini, I explained before, it's the silhouette, and you know, everything, it is
01:07:12so recognizable from far away, and this is exactly what Ferrari is doing, what Maserati
01:07:16is doing, and all these fantastic brands are doing.
01:07:19So they have all their place, and they are enriching our car world.
01:07:23Yeah.
01:07:24Punto.
01:07:25And we're over time.
01:07:26If you listened to a previous episode when we had Sascha on, he has his thoughts about
01:07:30the Cybertruck and how bold it is.
01:07:33But anything on Ferrari you want to talk about?
01:07:36I find Cybertruck much more exciting than most hypercars today, because it's a really
01:07:40brave statement, and when we discuss wedge cars and we celebrate them, I think Cybertruck
01:07:46belongs on that lawn, in my mind, honestly.
01:07:50Nice take.
01:07:51Well, unpopular opinion, I do love old classics, I absolutely love classical beauty, but that
01:07:55thing challenges me in ways that most other cars didn't, and it does so by being pure
01:08:01and not being over-styled.
01:08:03And I think a lot of people forget the fact that in the industry where they complain how
01:08:07everything looks the same, it is actually pretty difficult to come up with something
01:08:11that doesn't look the same, so they should at least be commended on that front.
01:08:14And doing that with an idea of form actually following function to a point, I know there
01:08:19are drawbacks there, but the simplicity and the purity of what they have done, in my mind,
01:08:24could have been a great Lamborghini.
01:08:26That's just me.
01:08:27All right.
01:08:28On that note...
01:08:29That's it.
01:08:30That's all we have time for.
01:08:31Let's thank you guys for being a great audience.
01:08:32Thank you so much.
01:08:33Thank you to Sascha, Davide, Dimitra for taking the time, and yeah.
01:08:44Thanks.
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