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00:00from Jay Gruden, former head coach in Washington, former offensive coordinator in a couple of
00:04places that I think are really discussion worthy. Let's dive into them. River Island's
00:10guest line Jay Gruden joins us on Willard and Dibbs. Hey Jay, what's going on?
00:16Hey, how you guys doing? We're doing fine. We're intrigued by what you had to say,
00:20especially as a long time. Oh, it wasn't a knock on Kyle now, it's not.
00:24No one's calling it a knock, but I think that what you're saying here is very interesting to
00:3349er fans who are very aware of the struggles of coming from behind in the fourth quarter.
00:40What do you see from the Niner passing game when they are down, when they are in known passing
00:47situations? Well, I'll tell you what, they're not down very often, so they don't have to worry about
00:53it very often. A lot of these teams right now that are in the lead, they call whatever they
00:58want, the bootlegs and the runs. Everything's working, but when people get down, and when
01:02everybody gets down in the NFL, it's very difficult to come back. It's not just Kyle.
01:05Every coach has a problem coming from behind. We work together at Tampa, and I've known Kyle's
01:12offense for a long time, and I just, in my mind, I don't recognize some of the things that he does
01:18in known passing situations. They're different, and it's not saying that they're bad,
01:22they're just different to me and what I'm used to, that's all. And I want to delve deeper because
01:26I don't think you're wrong, Jay, and I don't want you to feel threatened by this conversation
01:30because it's something I've talked a lot about, and for me, it comes down to formation and
01:36personnel and maybe route concepts as well. When you look at this team, a team that doesn't do
01:41three-wides very often, they almost never go four-wide receivers, is it personnel as much
01:47as it is scheme as to why they don't come back very often? I think it's more route concepts.
01:54The route concepts, I don't recognize a whole lot, and by me saying I don't recognize them doesn't
01:58mean they have a grasp of what they're trying to do. It's just different than what I'm used to,
02:03and Andy Reid, and Sean Payton back when he had Drew Brees, and I'm old school. I just don't
02:09recognize some of the way they're attacking defenses and all that stuff, but personnel-wise,
02:15you have to keep Kittle in the game. He's the best tight end in the business, in my opinion,
02:19as far as an all-around tight end, and Deebo and Aiyuk's in the game, and I don't know if they have
02:23a third or fourth receiver or not, but they haven't had an opportunity to really have to
02:30come back a whole lot. When they have had that opportunity to try to come back, they're not very
02:34successful. That's my thought. Jay Gruden joining us here at Willard & Tim's 95.7 The Game. Coach,
02:40I know this is going to sound like a silly question, but for football fans who are listening,
02:45we understand what a route is, but when you say, I don't recognize the route concepts,
02:51what specifically do you mean? What are you seeing? I'm an old man, and I'm an old school
02:57guy. I'm just talking about a lot of concepts. You attack cover two, you attack cover one,
03:04you attack cover three, different ways. If you get cover two, we're going this side. If you get
03:08cover three, you're going this side. If you get man-to-man, here's your man element, all that
03:11stuff. To me, it's just a lot of people running around in similar areas, and I just don't
03:16understand some of that. That's all. It's not that they don't have a rhyme or reason for what
03:20they're doing. I'm sure they do. To me, they're running in the same location a lot. If you freeze
03:27the film at the end of the play, you get three red jerseys in a similar spot. It just doesn't
03:32make any sense to me. I just don't feel like they work the field all the blades of grass
03:40the right way, personally. You high-low the corner, you high-low the hook player, you high-low
03:44the weak side hook player, whatever you want to do. You work man-to-man against this technique.
03:49I don't know. It's just different to me. That's all. Is it a byproduct of being a run-first
03:55coordinator, a run-first coach, and a guy who maybe focuses more on pre-snap movement and
04:01formations and shifting? I think that's part of it. I think a lot of people have gotten into this
04:06jet-sweep motions and crazy motions instead of more so getting people lined up and using
04:14personnel to have the defense show their hands so you know if it's man or zone or cover three or
04:18cover two. A lot of these motions can mess up the defense, but they can mess up quarterbacks
04:24as well because you don't know exactly how they're going to react to some of these motions.
04:28I'm not saying I was a static guy, but I was more of a formation teller. If I tied in,
04:34split out wide, and the safety goes with my notes, man-to-man, stuff like that.
04:40They have a rhyme or reason. They've been very successful offensively there. Nobody's arguing
04:45that. I'm just saying on the known passing situations and come-from-behind situations,
04:51they haven't been as effective for whatever reason. The concepts that I know that we learned
04:56back in the Tampa days, they're just different. I'm sure he and Mr. Shanahan, they've come up with
05:02ways to try to attack defenses in different ways. I still recognize them very well.
05:06Coach, you also sort of indicated that you think Brock Purdy doesn't get the credit he deserves
05:11for the way the offense works. I wonder if you could expand on that a little bit.
05:17I think the offense, anytime you have an offense that is as successful as Stamford-Ramsden,
05:24your quarterback has to play at a high level. The footwork, the timing, the anticipation,
05:29the accuracy has to be in tandem. For it to be successful, that quarterback has to play,
05:35like I said, and be consistent. A lot of quarterbacks, they can throw a five-step
05:41glance drive. They can throw a play action, but do it on a consistent level and put your team
05:45ahead of the sticks all the time. I think Brock makes good decisions more often than not. That
05:50keeps his team with the ability not to have to play from behind, not to play on third down and
05:56long. That's part of why Kyle is so successful, because his offense is predicated on first,
06:02second down. You look at New Orleans Saints right now and Clint Kubiak, their offense.
06:08Derek Carter has had maybe two third and tens, and the rest of them have been third and twos.
06:12They're second and five. They're first and ten. They are crushing people right now. That's kind
06:16of the similar formula that Stamford-Ramsden and Miami is using. When they do get third and long,
06:23they struggle like everybody else. Not just them, but like everybody else. Brock is an
06:28efficient quarterback. He's accurate and a very good player. When you look at the upcoming game
06:34against the Rams and McCaffrey's out, Debo's out, George Kittle mispracticed today with a
06:38hamstring. He'll be questionable. How does Kyle Shanahan go about getting Brandon Iyuk open and
06:44scheming a system where the defense will be paying him a lot of attention, but how do you make it so
06:49you can get Brandon Iyuk involved in this pass game? I'd be more concerned about George Kittle
06:55than anybody. I think George Kittle makes that offense what it is. He is the best blocking
07:02tight end and receiving tight end combination there is. If you look around the league, not
07:07many teams have a blocking tight end like George Kittle that can go out and run pass routes and
07:12break tackles like he does. They're almost non-existent right now. I think he's the most
07:15valuable player on the team. Personally, I love Trent, I love Brock, I love Debo, but
07:19George Kittle is a monster. If he's not in there, I don't know what they're going to do.
07:24You got to figure out ways to get another tight end in there and continue to hit people with Mason
07:29in the running game so your play actions are there on first and second down and on third down,
07:32do the best you can and protect the quarterback and try to get through this game and try to win it
07:38probably by a few goal or whatever. It's tough when you lose players. I'm sitting here on a
07:42park bench right now talking to you guys because I lost my starting tight end, my starting two
07:46quarterbacks, my starting left tackle, my starting left guard, and three linebacks.
07:50When you get injuries, man, it's hard to function and they're going to have to make do.
07:56All right, so let's dive into that. You have a Rams team that's got no Pukanuku and no Cooper
08:01Cup. You got a Niners team that's got no Christian McCaffrey, no Debo Samuel, and now as you're
08:06detailing, maybe no George Kittle. Which team is like a lesser version of itself?
08:16Probably the Rams just because they have offensive line injuries as well and they have a very young
08:21defense. At least the 49ers have a very good defense and I think when you have some injuries
08:26on offense, your defense has to carry the load and they have to understand that. Kyle, I'm sure,
08:31will understand that and he'll take less risk on third and ten. If third and ten, maybe they'll
08:35run a screen past the Mason or whatever and punt and back up the Rams and make them go the long
08:40field against the very good defense by the 49ers. Sometimes it's okay to win 17-13. We don't have
08:45to look at our rushing yards at 130 and our passing yards at 330. The stats don't matter.
08:50We just got to get out of this game with a win. Punt when you have to punt. Don't turn the ball
08:54over and make them go the long field and I think they'll be fine. Jay Gruden here on 95.7 The Game.
09:00I don't know if you heard the comments from this morning, but Mel Kiper Jr. came out and said the
09:03too high safety look is something that maybe should be banned because the vertical passing
09:09game has gone the way of the dodo bird. As few as an offensive mind is going up against a lot of
09:15too high safety. How do you beat that in the pass game, coach? It's been beaten for many, many years
09:22and that's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. Actually, I like going against
09:27too high defense because I knew that I wasn't going to get blipped so we could protect our
09:32quarterback and we could work the middle of the field. We could work the outside lane and cover
09:36two and then the whole shot. You could work the weak side check down if the weak side hook player
09:40gets too deep. I mean, you can draw up clinic tapes on how to beat cover two. Cover two is not
09:46the issue. The issue is protecting the quarterback with the four, five, six man rushes. Maybe we
09:51should outlaw blitzes and just rush three guys all the time so the quarterback can stand back
09:56there all day. But I also said that you could play cover two with your corners so you're safe.
10:00You can come down and be the middle middle field reader and your free safety can be the
10:04weak side flat player. I mean, you can dress up your cover. It doesn't have to be the safety.
10:09So there's teams are playing different versions of cover two now without the safety so it'd be
10:14impossible to police. It makes no sense at all and I'm telling you most offensive coordinators
10:22that I know would rather go after cover two than actually after cover three fire zones and all
10:26these blitzes. Love the answer. That was great. Great answer. Yeah, you're listening to 95.7 The
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10:36Twitch and YouTube powered by First NorCal Credit Union for a low-rate auto loan. Apply online
10:40or just ask for First NorCal financing at the dealer. We're talking with Jay Gruden here
10:44on Willard and Dibbs on 95.7 The Game. Coach, I want to like scratch into your sort of like
10:51offensive game plan mind here. If you were in a situation like the 49ers where there's a clear cut
11:01sort of number one option that's still out there in Brandon Iuke and a bunch of the other top
11:07options are not available to you as an offensive coordinator. Are you going into a game like that
11:14thinking, all right, we got to almost force the ball to our guy or are you
11:22decoying him some and still trying to spread things around?
11:28I wouldn't say decoy. I think every play concept has a number one, number two, number three,
11:34number four progression. I'm trying to get Brandon to be our number one progression. So,
11:38if you're running a shallow cross, I want him to run a shallow cross. Now,
11:41there's other progressions that are going to be part of the play. If they take away that,
11:44then you can go to other progressions. That's fine, but I always want him to be my number one
11:49progression. Obviously, if we get the man-to-man, I want to make sure I alert Rockbury that if we
11:53get man-to-man, we're throwing to Iuke on this play. That's the best way to do it because
11:59coverages, I like to say coverages dictate where the ball goes, but within each play concept,
12:05you have your progressions, number one, two, and three. I just try to get Brandon in the number
12:09one spot. Certain play actions, you want him to be the one to get it, and then if he's covered,
12:14you go back to another guy or check it down to your back. So, there are ways to get on the ball,
12:17but there's no guarantee, but coverages will dictate where the ball goes. But in man-to-man,
12:22we're going to tell Brock, hey, we're going to alert Brandon on this one.
12:25You talked about the pass concepts from Kyle Shanahan, but what about the run concepts,
12:29and what does it say about the Shanahan run scheme that Jordan Mason becomes another undrafted guy
12:35who appears to be very effective in the Shanahan run scheme?
12:40I'm the best. I said this, for a second, Kyle's the best probably ever coached, and part of that
12:46is he's had pretty good tight ends. I think George Kittle, I made this mention a couple weeks ago,
12:51George Kittle, if you want to run the ball effectively in the NFL, you have to have a
12:55tight end, and if I was taking a tight end, George would be my number one guy. The way he blocks for
13:01the outside zones, the backside cutoffs, all those things, he is absolutely clinic perfect in
13:07the way he does everything. He's the best. And then you had Trent Williams, you had some good
13:11backs, and a great run scheme. Chris Furster, I don't think gets any credit for some reason.
13:15He was my line coach for a year in Washington, and I almost cried when we let him go.
13:22But yeah, he's awesome with his run scheme, and Kyle does a great job. Mike Shanahan,
13:25they're great with the outside zones, the inside zones. They come up with unique ways to cut off
13:29the backside. They're the best in the business for what they do in that regard.
13:33Jay, before you go, we got listeners here in the Bay who might have had to pull over
13:38because this is a fun and admittedly dumb sports radio thing that we do all the time with the
13:44Niners, which is sort of like of all the stars, who is the most important? Who do you not want
13:50to get hurt? And so the answers from Brock Purdy to Christian McCaffrey to Trent Williams come out
13:56a lot. Did you say it was George Kittle? Well, Trent's very, obviously your quarterback. I don't
14:02know. I don't know who their backup is right now, but you never want your quarterback to get hurt
14:05because all the information goes through him, and he's got to handle the run game, snap count,
14:10everything goes through the quarterbacks. The quarterbacks always won. After that,
14:14I coach Trent. Trent's the greatest left tackle of all time. I don't give a damn what anybody says.
14:19However, if you want to run the ball effectively, you have to have George Kittle in your lineup.
14:24He is amazing to watch. He's fun to watch, and in the past game, he's good. He maybe may not be
14:30the best tight end in the past game of the NFL right now, but as far as a combination, blocking,
14:34receiving tight end, George Kittle is the man. So it's a tough call for me. I'd go quarterback.
14:39I wouldn't want my quarterback ever to get hurt. Trent probably be 1A and Kittle be 1B. Debo might
14:45be 1C. They have some great players on that football team, but George Kittle, I think you
14:50want to run the ball first, second down, you got to have a tight end, and George would be my pick.
14:54There it is. Hey, Jay, great stuff. Thank you so much for hopping on with us.
14:59All right. Thank you guys for having me.
15:01Okay.