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00:00The President has met with the head of the National Assembly from his own bloc,
00:03as well as representatives from the far-right National Rally, including Marine Le Pen.
00:08Let's take a listen to what she had to say coming out of that meeting.
00:14The new Popular Front is led by François Mbaute.
00:18So the idea that there should be a new Popular Front government without
00:22François Mbaute ministers changes absolutely nothing.
00:25In reality, it'll still be François Mbaute,
00:27and it'll still be Jean-Luc Mélenchon leading the government.
00:32For some more analysis on the story, I'd like to bring in Anna McKeever.
00:36She's a lecturer in political science at the University of West Scotland.
00:41Anna, thanks so much for joining us.
00:42You have studied the effects of immigration, in particular on right-wing politics,
00:46including here in France.
00:48We just heard from the National Rally's Marine Le Pen.
00:51How do you think that the issue has affected the country's rightward drift in recent years?
00:57Well, I think that Marine Le Pen has done tremendous work in trying to normalize her
01:02rhetoric to appeal to a wider population.
01:05And obviously, you know, with every election, we've seen that the National Rally is
01:09getting a bigger and bigger share of seats and share of votes.
01:14So the strategy of Marine Le Pen now is obviously to discredit the radical left,
01:20La France Insoumise.
01:21And again, all the parties are already in campaigning mode for the presidential elections.
01:27And for the future parliamentary elections that are likely, you know, to take place shortly
01:32in the year.
01:33But definitely, there has been a sort of droitisation of the French politics in the recent years,
01:40where I've seen the topics of immigration, the topics of asylum, of niqab coming more
01:47and more to the forefront.
01:48And obviously, Marine Le Pen has played a crucial role in doing so.
01:53But also mainstream politicians are very much responsible for normalizing such rhetoric.
02:00On that topic, in fact, Macron, of course, often described as a centrist.
02:07And yet, he has stalked his previous governments with plenty of figures from what you would
02:12have to say are the right wing, Gérard Darmanin, the interior minister taking a very tough
02:17anti-immigration line, himself a right winger.
02:20Do you think this label of centrist applies to Macron on the first part and also has the
02:26political conversation here in France?
02:28Has he allowed it to be pushed by the national rally?
02:34Absolutely.
02:35So, you know, since Marine Le Pen became the leader in 2011, she excluded her father from
02:40the party.
02:41She tries to lead this de-demonization strategy, trying to appeal to a wider population.
02:47But very much so, why we're seeing this shift to the right and Macron indeed passed the
02:52immigration law with the help of the national rally last year.
02:56So, why we're seeing this is because the mainstream politicians like Macron, like
03:01Le Républicain, the rightist party, they have contributed to normalization of such
03:06rhetoric over time.
03:08But first of all, bringing immigration to the political discourse to the forefront of
03:12the agenda and also by passing, you know, important legislation on immigration during
03:18Sarkozy's time in office when he was the president, when he was the minister of the
03:22interior, then when Macron, during Macron's presidency as well.
03:26So, absolutely, mainstream politicians have normalized that and they are as much responsible
03:33for this sort of shift to the right as the national rally.
03:37And that's why we're also seeing, you know, the increasing success of the national rally
03:42in the recent years, because it's becoming more socially acceptable for voters to vote
03:49for such party.
03:50Because if mainstream politicians talk about this in the same manner about immigration,
03:55then, you know, it definitely normalizes the rhetoric.
04:00Again, on this topic, you see here in France, especially coming from Macron and his government,
04:06the sort of equivalency applied to the far right national rally and what they say, the
04:11far left, La France Insoumise, France Embaude.
04:15Do you think that that's a legitimate comparison?
04:20Is there really the same sort of danger to the republic from a party that really did
04:27have its roots in Nazism versus a party that is, to many people, would seem to be in line
04:34with the previous social democratic programs here in Europe?
04:39No, I don't think we can compare the national rally with La France Insoumise, because obviously
04:46what we're seeing, what Jean-Luc Mélenchon has done over the weekend when he said, well,
04:51we are not going to appoint ministers from La France Insoumise in order for the president
04:57to accept the Nouveau Front Populaire candidacy.
05:02So he's trying, he's prepared to work for the French democracy.
05:07While we are seeing the national rally, and Marine Le Pen right now coming half an hour
05:11out of the meeting with Emmanuel Macron saying that, no, she's going to censor all the left
05:19wing government.
05:20It's basically what the national rally is in now is in electoral campaign mode.
05:25And they're just trying to attack the radical left, because the radical left is becoming
05:31biggest contender for the national rally for the upcoming elections, both legislative
05:36and presidential.
05:38Because we're seeing that in France, actually, the politics has shifted from the mainstream
05:43to sort of two extremes, the radical left and then the radical right, because these
05:48are the groupings that, these are the parties and the movements that get the biggest support
05:54from the French population.
05:55Of course, you know, the national rally is going to attack La France Insoumise and the
06:00leftist government, the leftist coalition, sorry, coalition, because they present a real
06:06danger for them in terms of, you know, losing votes in the upcoming election.
06:12All right.
06:13Anna Akiva, lecturer in political science at the University of West Scotland.
06:16Thank you so much for that analysis.