For the first time in history, two Northern Territory born and bred women are vying to become chief minister. High crime rates, living costs and a flatlining economy continue to dog the jurisdiction and both are trying to convince the public of their credentials in helping build a better territory for the future.
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00:00Chief Minister Eva Lawler, Opposition Leader for Knockyarra, thank you for joining Stateline.
00:07Absolute pleasure.
00:08Chief Minister, we've heard from residents in Palmerston where crime and the rising cost
00:12of living is front of mind for many.
00:15You hold your seat of Drysdale with a slim margin.
00:18Are you worried that you could lose your seat at this election?
00:21I'm always worried about my seat and that's why I've continued always to work hard for
00:26Palmerston.
00:27Since being elected Chief Minister, I've had a very strong focus on reducing crime and
00:31that's across the Northern Territory.
00:33We've invested $570 million into police, so to have an additional 200 sworn police officers.
00:40But it's also the residential youth justice facilities that we've been able to put in
00:44place.
00:45So three out of the four we've been able to put in place in the short time that I've been
00:48Chief Minister as well.
00:50Last month you conceded that your government had been driven by ideologies in some of its
00:55past decisions.
00:56What has made you say that?
00:59I'm very much a centralist and I'm a person, I'm old enough I think, to be able to drive
01:04the Territory forward and make decisions based on the best interest of Territorians.
01:08So whether that's unions, whether it's the left or right of politics, you don't see that
01:13with me.
01:14You see decisions that are based on the conversations I have with Territorians and in the best interest
01:20of Territorians.
01:21Was your government's decision to allow alcohol bans to lapse in remote communities driven
01:26by such ideology?
01:27Your Deputy, Chancey Paik, went on the record calling the laws racist.
01:31Do you regret allowing those laws to lapse?
01:33I think it was the wrong thing to do.
01:36My number one focus is making sure...
01:38If it was the wrong thing to do, how can you have confidence in your Deputy that he supported
01:43the alcohol bans to lapse and the social consequences that followed?
01:47So I think it was the wrong thing to do, but I also understand the difficulties of such
01:51decisions and they are tough decisions in the Northern Territory.
01:54They are not simple decisions.
01:56Opposition Leader, we'll take it to you.
01:58If you become Chief Minister, what will you do with alcohol bans?
02:01Will you keep them in place or lift them?
02:03We will absolutely keep them in place.
02:05We saw the carnage and destruction of people's lives when Labor failed to make people safe.
02:11It was a terrible seven months where crime statistics went through the roof and alcohol
02:15abuse was rife right across the Territory.
02:18We can't afford to go back to that.
02:20Your party is running hard on a platform of crime and community safety, promising to
02:26build new women's prisons if elected.
02:29What modelling are you relying on to know that building more prisons will work, given
02:34that we are the most incarcerated jurisdiction in the country?
02:38We want to drive down crime and that's our main focus.
02:41What we know right now is our prisons are bursting at the seam because Labor hasn't
02:45done the work.
02:46But they are bursting at the seam, so why will more work?
02:49Because we need more to put the people in.
02:50Currently our watch houses right across the Territory are being used as correctional facilities
02:56instead of being used by police as watch houses.
02:58Eva Lawler, your government changed the age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 12 years
03:04of age.
03:05Victoria has walked away from doing that.
03:07Oh, they've walked away from 14.
03:09Yeah, from 14.
03:10But was it a mistake for your government to increase it in the Territory?
03:14No, it is the right thing to do.
03:16I absolutely understand that somebody who's had a vehicle stolen, a house broken into
03:21by a 10 or a 12 year old, or 10 or 11 or a 12 year old, is angry about that.
03:27But you need to, and we need to as a government, to turn that child's life around so they don't
03:31become a super criminal and a long-term hardened criminal.
03:35And so that's the work that we're doing.
03:37Leah Finocchiaro, you're promising to drop the age of criminal responsibility back to
03:4110 if elected.
03:43What will this achieve given that the drivers of youth crime are far deeper and arguably
03:49the result of incarceration?
03:52What we know right now is that young people, young vulnerable people are falling through
03:55the cracks.
03:56Under Labor's changes of raising the age, it means young people under 12 can't be held
04:01responsible for their crimes and that means they can't be put into diversion programs
04:06that are going to turn their life around.
04:08But aren't we punishing the children when we as adults and the community as a whole should
04:13be held responsible?
04:14Well, parents should be held responsible and again, that's why there needs to be accountability
04:18in the system.
04:19So by lowering the age to 10, we're able to capture those young people early, work out
04:23what's going on at home and that's also why we're taking youth justice out of Territory
04:28families.
04:29We need Territory families to be dealing with the care and protection of children.
04:32The CLP holds seven seats in Parliament, it needs to almost double that to form majority
04:37government.
04:38Many of the candidates that you're running in this election, they're relatively unknown
04:43and they're running in seats that you need to win.
04:46Are you taking a gamble?
04:47Our team is an incredible group of people with the real world and government experience
04:52to be able to rebuild the Territory.
04:54We were overwhelmed by the number of people who put their hand up to serve their community
04:59and so our team are out every day connecting with their community, fighting for a better
05:03Territory.
05:04Your party has lost four by-elections in the past five years.
05:07Is that an indication that your party is perhaps not connecting with voters on the
05:11ground?
05:12We've been undertaking a rebuild process over the last eight years and we've learnt some
05:16lessons very hard.
05:18But what we have is a strong team of real world people with the experience to change
05:22the Territory for the better.
05:24And if you don't win the election, what will it mean for you?
05:26Will you step down as opposition leader?
05:28We're focused every day on the next two weeks and making sure that Territorians understand
05:33the choice ahead of them.
05:34With all due respect, you haven't answered the question.
05:36If you don't win the election, will you step down as opposition leader?
05:39I'm not going to enter into hypotheticals.
05:41We've got a very big job ahead of us to make sure every Territorian understands the choice
05:45and can they really afford another four years of Labor.
05:49Chief Minister, the NT is facing staggering debt of $11 billion.
05:53Much of it has come under Labor.
05:55Why should Territorians trust that things are going to be different under you?
05:59It is a tough job running the economy in the Northern Territory and I'm the Treasurer as
06:03well in the Northern Territory and I take that responsibility absolutely seriously.
06:07But you can't cut your way out of debt in the Territory.
06:10You have to in the Territory with only 250,000 people.
06:14You have to work with the Federal Government to make sure that they continue to fund the
06:17Territory.
06:18That's also why we've had to have an onshore oil and gas industry.
06:21It would have been really easy for Labor to say we won't have an onshore oil and gas industry.
06:26But we have to diversify our economy.
06:28We cannot see the boom-buff cycles that we saw after impacts.
06:33But what do you say to people?
06:34It's a very divisive issue in this community and it has been divisive for many years.
06:39What do you say to people who don't want fracking to go ahead?
06:41I say to them that we also, none of us want to see our environment damaged, none of us
06:48want to see water or any of the issues or concerns they have.
06:52But what we will do is make sure that we continue to monitor, continue to invest in monitoring,
06:58making sure that the proponents follow their environment management plans, but say yes
07:03you can do ecologically sustainable development in the Northern Territory.
07:08Opposition Leader, you're promising to cut payroll tax if elected.
07:12Labor says it will help big business.
07:14Will it?
07:15We're very proud of making it easier to do business here in the Territory and we know
07:19that small business is the engine room of our economy, representing over 98 per cent
07:24of all businesses.
07:25And so by making sure that payroll tax is abolished for small business and lifting the
07:29threshold from $1.5 million to $2.5 million for all businesses, will make us the most
07:35competitive payroll tax regime in the country, which will keep people here and attract people
07:40to move here.
07:41But cutting payroll tax will mean millions of dollars less revenue for the Northern Territory
07:46each year.
07:48What efficiency measures do you have in mind and will you rule out cutting the public service
07:53or selling off public assets like your party has done in the past to make up for the shortfall?
07:58We've been really clear that we need a strong public service to deliver our reform agenda
08:03and there will be no asset sales and no cuts.
08:06What we need to do is make the Territory a great place to live, work and invest again
08:10and that means we have to change how things are being done.
08:13Eva Lawlor, one of your key promises is to expand free preschool hours across the Northern
08:18Territory.
08:19You've held the education portfolio.
08:21You've been in government for two terms.
08:24If this policy is so important to you, why haven't you done it sooner to help Territorians?
08:28So this one around four-year-old preschool and full-time preschool has been one that's
08:33been talked about at a national level for a while.
08:36So New South Wales and Victoria have done it and I have been pushing for the Federal
08:40Government to do it across Australia.
08:43Do it across Australia, have it consistent across Australia.
08:46They haven't stepped forward on that and so coming into an election I said now's the time
08:51for us to be courageous, now's the time for us to commit to this.
08:55Chief Minister, the former New South Wales Premier Dominic Perrottet in his farewell
09:00speech said that COVID vaccine mandates were a mistake.
09:04Given how divisive the mandates were in this community, if you're re-elected will you commit
09:11to a review of your COVID response to see what went right and what could have been done
09:16better?
09:17No, I won't.
09:18I've always been looking backwards around the issue of COVID.
09:21I think Territorians have all moved on around COVID.
09:25The decisions that were made at the time were tough decisions that had to be made at that
09:31time.
09:32We had an outstanding response to COVID in the Territory.
09:34I don't think there is anything to be gained in looking back around the COVID response.
09:39This month we've seen airfare prices out of Darwin to say Melbourne nudge close to $1,000
09:46one way.
09:48Why is it, Eva Lawler, that after all of these years of Labor and Government, airfare prices
09:52haven't come down?
09:53Yeah, because we have virtually no control over airfares, well Qantas and airlines, it's
10:00up to them literally and we have very, very little influence over that.
10:03But how can you expect to grow the population?
10:06Your government has set an ambitious target to grow the population to 300,000 people by
10:112030.
10:12Experts say it's unlikely to happen.
10:14How can you expect the population to grow if people can't afford to come up here or
10:17to leave?
10:18So that's one of the really difficult issues for the Northern Territory and as I said you
10:22have to continue to work with Qantas, you have to continue to push to have cheaper airfares.
10:26But we've looked at, and I've looked at, the work around how could government subsidize
10:31that.
10:32But it's a small amount of money that government could subsidize for an exceptional cost for
10:35the Territory.
10:36So we try to bring in incentives to reduce the cost of airlines, the cost of airfares,
10:42but it is really difficult work and one that we're getting no movement around with Qantas.
10:48It's really tough.
10:49Leah Finocchiaro, what will you do if elected to help bring down the price of airfares?
10:54We need to take control of this situation.
10:57It's never been this bad and when you talk to long-term locals, they've never seen less
11:01flights in and out of the Territory and these prices are through the roof, crippling our
11:06opportunities to reconnect with loved ones interstate or visit family overseas.
11:11And so what we've seen in my view is a dropping of the ball by a government that's had a really
11:15hands-off approach.
11:16Chief Minister, sport comes with the Territory.
11:19Will you continue to fight for an anti-AFL team and what do you think it should be called?
11:26So definitely we will continue to fight for an AFL team.
11:29We have a 10-year plan, so that's in place.
11:33But what would it be called?
11:34I'm the chair of the Buffaloes, so I'd have to say Buffaloes.
11:38So it'll be the Territory Buffaloes.
11:40Opposition Leader, is an AFL team high on your agenda or is the Northern Territory too
11:45broke for one?
11:46I think every Territorian understands to get there, we've got to do some serious rebuilding.
11:51We've got to get our debt under control, crime under control and get our economy and our
11:56population growing again.
11:58So that's our immediate focus and it would be amazing if one day we could deliver on
12:03an AFL team.
12:04Chief Minister Eva Lawler and Opposition Leader Leah Finocchiaro, thank you for speaking to
12:09us this evening.
12:10Thank you Eleni.