ABC speaks to NT party leaders ahead next week's election
For the first time in history, two Northern Territory born and bred women are vying to become chief minister. High crime rates, living costs and a flatlining economy continue to dog the jurisdiction and both are trying to convince the public of their credentials in helping build a better territory for the future.
Transcript
00:00Chief Minister Eva Lawler, Opposition Leader for Knockyarra, thank you for joining Stateline.
00:07Absolute pleasure.
00:08Chief Minister, we've heard from residents in Palmerston where crime and the rising cost
00:12of living is front of mind for many.
00:15You hold your seat of Drysdale with a slim margin.
00:18Are you worried that you could lose your seat at this election?
00:21I'm always worried about my seat and that's why I've continued always to work hard for
00:26Palmerston.
00:27Since being elected Chief Minister, I've had a very strong focus on reducing crime and
00:31that's across the Northern Territory.
00:33We've invested $570 million into police, so to have an additional 200 sworn police officers.
00:40But it's also the residential youth justice facilities that we've been able to put in
00:44place.
00:45So three out of the four we've been able to put in place in the short time that I've been
00:48Chief Minister as well.
00:50Last month you conceded that your government had been driven by ideologies in some of its
00:55past decisions.
00:56What has made you say that?
00:59I'm very much a centralist and I'm a person, I'm old enough I think, to be able to drive
01:04the Territory forward and make decisions based on the best interest of Territorians.
01:08So whether that's unions, whether it's the left or right of politics, you don't see that
01:13with me.
01:14You see decisions that are based on the conversations I have with Territorians and in the best interest
01:20of Territorians.
01:21Was your government's decision to allow alcohol bans to lapse in remote communities driven
01:26by such ideology?
01:27Your Deputy, Chancey Paik, went on the record calling the laws racist.
01:31Do you regret allowing those laws to lapse?
01:33I think it was the wrong thing to do.
01:36My number one focus is making sure...
01:38If it was the wrong thing to do, how can you have confidence in your Deputy that he supported
01:43the alcohol bans to lapse and the social consequences that followed?
01:47So I think it was the wrong thing to do, but I also understand the difficulties of such
01:51decisions and they are tough decisions in the Northern Territory.
01:54They are not simple decisions.
01:56Opposition Leader, we'll take it to you.
01:58If you become Chief Minister, what will you do with alcohol bans?
02:01Will you keep them in place or lift them?
02:03We will absolutely keep them in place.
02:05We saw the carnage and destruction of people's lives when Labor failed to make people safe.
02:11It was a terrible seven months where crime statistics went through the roof and alcohol
02:15abuse was rife right across the Territory.
02:18We can't afford to go back to that.
02:20Your party is running hard on a platform of crime and community safety, promising to
02:26build new women's prisons if elected.
02:29What modelling are you relying on to know that building more prisons will work, given
02:34that we are the most incarcerated jurisdiction in the country?
02:38We want to drive down crime and that's our main focus.
02:41What we know right now is our prisons are bursting at the seam because Labor hasn't
02:45done the work.
02:46But they are bursting at the seam, so why will more work?
02:49Because we need more to put the people in.
02:50Currently our watch houses right across the Territory are being used as correctional facilities
02:56instead of being used by police as watch houses.
02:58Eva Lawler, your government changed the age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 12 years
03:04of age.
03:05Victoria has walked away from doing that.
03:07Oh, they've walked away from 14.
03:09Yeah, from 14.
03:10But was it a mistake for your government to increase it in the Territory?
03:14No, it is the right thing to do.
03:16I absolutely understand that somebody who's had a vehicle stolen, a house broken into
03:21by a 10 or a 12 year old, or 10 or 11 or a 12 year old, is angry about that.
03:27But you need to, and we need to as a government, to turn that child's life around so they don't
03:31become a super criminal and a long-term hardened criminal.
03:35And so that's the work that we're doing.
03:37Leah Finocchiaro, you're promising to drop the age of criminal responsibility back to
03:4110 if elected.
03:43What will this achieve given that the drivers of youth crime are far deeper and arguably
03:49the result of incarceration?
03:52What we know right now is that young people, young vulnerable people are falling through
03:55the cracks.
03:56Under Labor's changes of raising the age, it means young people under 12 can't be held
04:01responsible for their crimes and that means they can't be put into diversion programs
04:06that are going to turn their life around.
04:08But aren't we punishing the children when we as adults and the community as a whole should
04:13be held responsible?
04:14Well, parents should be held responsible and again, that's why there needs to be accountability
04:18in the system.
04:19So by lowering the age to 10, we're able to capture those young people early, work out
04:23what's going on at home and that's also why we're taking youth justice out of Territory
04:28families.
04:29We need Territory families to be dealing with the care and protection of children.
04:32The CLP holds seven seats in Parliament, it needs to almost double that to form majority
04:37government.
04:38Many of the candidates that you're running in this election, they're relatively unknown
04:43and they're running in seats that you need to win.
04:46Are you taking a gamble?
04:47Our team is an incredible group of people with the real world and government experience
04:52to be able to rebuild the Territory.
04:54We were overwhelmed by the number of people who put their hand up to serve their community
04:59and so our team are out every day connecting with their community, fighting for a better
05:03Territory.
05:04Your party has lost four by-elections in the past five years.
05:07Is that an indication that your party is perhaps not connecting with voters on the
05:11ground?
05:12We've been undertaking a rebuild process over the last eight years and we've learnt some
05:16lessons very hard.
05:18But what we have is a strong team of real world people with the experience to change
05:22the Territory for the better.
05:24And if you don't win the election, what will it mean for you?
05:26Will you step down as opposition leader?
05:28We're focused every day on the next two weeks and making sure that Territorians understand
05:33the choice ahead of them.
05:34With all due respect, you haven't answered the question.
05:36If you don't win the election, will you step down as opposition leader?
05:39I'm not going to enter into hypotheticals.
05:41We've got a very big job ahead of us to make sure every Territorian understands the choice
05:45and can they really afford another four years of Labor.
05:49Chief Minister, the NT is facing staggering debt of $11 billion.
05:53Much of it has come under Labor.
05:55Why should Territorians trust that things are going to be different under you?
05:59It is a tough job running the economy in the Northern Territory and I'm the Treasurer as
06:03well in the Northern Territory and I take that responsibility absolutely seriously.
06:07But you can't cut your way out of debt in the Territory.
06:10You have to in the Territory with only 250,000 people.
06:14You have to work with the Federal Government to make sure that they continue to fund the
06:17Territory.
06:18That's also why we've had to have an onshore oil and gas industry.
06:21It would have been really easy for Labor to say we won't have an onshore oil and gas industry.
06:26But we have to diversify our economy.
06:28We cannot see the boom-buff cycles that we saw after impacts.
06:33But what do you say to people?
06:34It's a very divisive issue in this community and it has been divisive for many years.
06:39What do you say to people who don't want fracking to go ahead?
06:41I say to them that we also, none of us want to see our environment damaged, none of us
06:48want to see water or any of the issues or concerns they have.
06:52But what we will do is make sure that we continue to monitor, continue to invest in monitoring,
06:58making sure that the proponents follow their environment management plans, but say yes
07:03you can do ecologically sustainable development in the Northern Territory.
07:08Opposition Leader, you're promising to cut payroll tax if elected.
07:12Labor says it will help big business.
07:14Will it?
07:15We're very proud of making it easier to do business here in the Territory and we know
07:19that small business is the engine room of our economy, representing over 98 per cent
07:24of all businesses.
07:25And so by making sure that payroll tax is abolished for small business and lifting the
07:29threshold from $1.5 million to $2.5 million for all businesses, will make us the most
07:35competitive payroll tax regime in the country, which will keep people here and attract people
07:40to move here.
07:41But cutting payroll tax will mean millions of dollars less revenue for the Northern Territory
07:46each year.
07:48What efficiency measures do you have in mind and will you rule out cutting the public service
07:53or selling off public assets like your party has done in the past to make up for the shortfall?
07:58We've been really clear that we need a strong public service to deliver our reform agenda
08:03and there will be no asset sales and no cuts.
08:06What we need to do is make the Territory a great place to live, work and invest again
08:10and that means we have to change how things are being done.
08:13Eva Lawlor, one of your key promises is to expand free preschool hours across the Northern
08:18Territory.
08:19You've held the education portfolio.
08:21You've been in government for two terms.
08:24If this policy is so important to you, why haven't you done it sooner to help Territorians?
08:28So this one around four-year-old preschool and full-time preschool has been one that's
08:33been talked about at a national level for a while.
08:36So New South Wales and Victoria have done it and I have been pushing for the Federal
08:40Government to do it across Australia.
08:43Do it across Australia, have it consistent across Australia.
08:46They haven't stepped forward on that and so coming into an election I said now's the time
08:51for us to be courageous, now's the time for us to commit to this.
08:55Chief Minister, the former New South Wales Premier Dominic Perrottet in his farewell
09:00speech said that COVID vaccine mandates were a mistake.
09:04Given how divisive the mandates were in this community, if you're re-elected will you commit
09:11to a review of your COVID response to see what went right and what could have been done
09:16better?
09:17No, I won't.
09:18I've always been looking backwards around the issue of COVID.
09:21I think Territorians have all moved on around COVID.
09:25The decisions that were made at the time were tough decisions that had to be made at that
09:31time.
09:32We had an outstanding response to COVID in the Territory.
09:34I don't think there is anything to be gained in looking back around the COVID response.
09:39This month we've seen airfare prices out of Darwin to say Melbourne nudge close to $1,000
09:46one way.
09:48Why is it, Eva Lawler, that after all of these years of Labor and Government, airfare prices
09:52haven't come down?
09:53Yeah, because we have virtually no control over airfares, well Qantas and airlines, it's
10:00up to them literally and we have very, very little influence over that.
10:03But how can you expect to grow the population?
10:06Your government has set an ambitious target to grow the population to 300,000 people by
10:112030.
10:12Experts say it's unlikely to happen.
10:14How can you expect the population to grow if people can't afford to come up here or
10:17to leave?
10:18So that's one of the really difficult issues for the Northern Territory and as I said you
10:22have to continue to work with Qantas, you have to continue to push to have cheaper airfares.
10:26But we've looked at, and I've looked at, the work around how could government subsidize
10:31that.
10:32But it's a small amount of money that government could subsidize for an exceptional cost for
10:35the Territory.
10:36So we try to bring in incentives to reduce the cost of airlines, the cost of airfares,
10:42but it is really difficult work and one that we're getting no movement around with Qantas.
10:48It's really tough.
10:49Leah Finocchiaro, what will you do if elected to help bring down the price of airfares?
10:54We need to take control of this situation.
10:57It's never been this bad and when you talk to long-term locals, they've never seen less
11:01flights in and out of the Territory and these prices are through the roof, crippling our
11:06opportunities to reconnect with loved ones interstate or visit family overseas.
11:11And so what we've seen in my view is a dropping of the ball by a government that's had a really
11:15hands-off approach.
11:16Chief Minister, sport comes with the Territory.
11:19Will you continue to fight for an anti-AFL team and what do you think it should be called?
11:26So definitely we will continue to fight for an AFL team.
11:29We have a 10-year plan, so that's in place.
11:33But what would it be called?
11:34I'm the chair of the Buffaloes, so I'd have to say Buffaloes.
11:38So it'll be the Territory Buffaloes.
11:40Opposition Leader, is an AFL team high on your agenda or is the Northern Territory too
11:45broke for one?
11:46I think every Territorian understands to get there, we've got to do some serious rebuilding.
11:51We've got to get our debt under control, crime under control and get our economy and our
11:56population growing again.
11:58So that's our immediate focus and it would be amazing if one day we could deliver on
12:03an AFL team.
12:04Chief Minister Eva Lawler and Opposition Leader Leah Finocchiaro, thank you for speaking to
12:09us this evening.
12:10Thank you Eleni.