Amazon Prime 'Fallout' Panel 2 Master Craft Conversation | Variety FYC Streaming Room
Hear from the department heads of Prime Video's Emmy-nominated hit series, "Fallout." The Emmy-nominated artisans break down their process from building The Ghoul's post-apocalyptic world to creating the perfect costumes. Discover the music cue that defines Lucy and learn about the collaborations that helped bring this show to the screen.
Hear from the department heads of Prime Video's Emmy-nominated hit series, "Fallout." The Emmy-nominated artisans break down their process from building The Ghoul's post-apocalyptic world to creating the perfect costumes. Discover the music cue that defines Lucy and learn about the collaborations that helped bring this show to the screen.
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00:00Hi, I'm Jazz Tanke, Senior Artisans Editor at Variety.
00:09I'm so excited to be here today for this conversation on Prime Video's Fallout.
00:14Please join me in welcoming the Emmy-nominated artisans behind the series.
00:19With us, we have prosthetics makeup artist Jake Garber, VFX supervisor Jay Wirth, editor
00:25Ali Compacchio, costume designer Amy Westcott, and music supervisor Trigger Tobin.
00:32Hello, and welcome to you all, and congratulations on your Emmy nominations, and huge congratulations
00:42on bringing Fallout to our screens.
00:46You did such an incredible job on it.
00:48I'm just curious, Jonathan Nolan is such a genius.
00:54What was it like collaborating with him to bring Fallout to life?
00:59Jake, I'm going to start with you.
01:03My collaborations with him were quite minimal, actually, at the beginning.
01:07I was initially contacted by James Scott Staple, one of the producers, about doing the show,
01:13and I wanted to get a prosthetic artist that I worked with, a guy named Vincent Van Dyke,
01:18who's quite the designer and manufacturer of those type of prosthetics and all that.
01:23We'd worked together in the past.
01:25My involvement on the design aspect was limited.
01:28There was a number of people involved, including Walton and Jonah and Vincent at the beginning.
01:33I was consulted, obviously, about little tech aspects of it and all that, but I just kind
01:38of let them run with that one, and then kind of came in towards the tail end of the design
01:43thing.
01:44Yeah, Jonah was awesome.
01:45Jay, what about for you?
01:46Yeah, it was fun.
01:47I remember those first meetings, and we had all those conversations about, you know, well,
01:56what should it feel like?
01:57What should it look like?
01:58You know, how do you create this kind of, you know, villainous, horrific, multi-complex
02:05character that also has a little intrigue, has a little attraction to him, and what's
02:12that going to look like, what's that going to feel like?
02:16I had the fun, daunting one of, okay, so Jay, so one of the main characters is not going
02:21to have a nose, and you're going to have to touch every single time you see him in the
02:23entire series.
02:24What is that going to do?
02:27But it was a really fun collaboration that, you know, with that early design process,
02:31and then I remember, Jake, when we were there for that first makeup test, and it all kind
02:36of came to life, and we really took what they designed and tried to figure out how to execute
02:45it in visual effects, but really, it was all about Walton's performance, you know, and
02:51the second he put that thing on, and the second you applied that, we're there, we're like,
02:56oh, oh, this is special.
02:58That's what we hoped it would be, you know.
03:00You see, you know, still images in concept art, and you don't quite know how it's going
03:05to feel until you see him standing there in all this glory, and, you know, from that moment,
03:11it wasn't, you know, sometimes you do tests, you're like, well, it's not quite there, let's,
03:16you know, that one was like instantaneous magic, and it was pretty, it was pretty special.
03:20I'm going to do a little quick nod out to Jay on that one, because I've worked with
03:24some removal of things like that in the past, and it used to be that you'd have to use some
03:28sort of a color separation, either green or blue or something like that, and we did a
03:32little quick sample of it on Walton during the very, very first test before these guys
03:36were coming in, and he was concerned about it, because the tip of his nose, we just did
03:41green for it, and he was, wow, it was just right in his line of sight, so he just had
03:47this little green speck sitting in his eye line, and he says, is there any way we can
03:52go without this?
03:53And luckily, VFX is advanced, and Jay was able to accommodate us to just put a couple
03:57of tracking dots on his nose that eliminated that, you know, visual distraction for him,
04:01that would have been a visual distraction for him.
04:04Jake and Jay, like, talk about working together to preserve Walton's face, like, you know,
04:10he's not lost completely underneath that, but it is an, you know, it's an incredible
04:14makeup, VFX combo, but we still see the essence of his performance in every single episode.
04:21Talk about finding that.
04:22Well, that was absolutely something at the beginning that was a concern, because when
04:28you hire Walton, you want Walton, and luckily, working with Vincent is we both are very keen
04:33on treating it like a character makeup and not doing it as some sort of a grotesque imagery,
04:39which was, Joan was very adamant about, and we kept those pieces as thin as possible so
04:46that we could see Walton through that, and you can.
04:50And the other thing, too, was Walton was very concerned about it because he hadn't really
04:54done anything quite that involved over a long run like that, and he was very concerned about
05:00his emotions coming through during his performance, and we just had to kind of keep telling him,
05:08I'm seeing it, I'm feeling it, and luckily, once he kind of got through everything, he
05:12didn't want to watch a lot of, you know, rushes or dailies or anything like that.
05:17He just kind of want to run with it.
05:18But once he saw the final thing, he was like, OK, you guys were right.
05:21You guys did me upright between all of us.
05:24Amy, talk a little bit about working with Jonathan.
05:28Yeah, unlike Jake, I had a lot, a lot of, I worked with Jonathan from the beginning,
05:34and really, I mean, our first meeting or just when I was meeting on the job, it was
05:41just so, it was such a great sort of collaborative spitball conversation between he and myself
05:50and Geneva and Graham, and it just became sort of obvious that this was going to be
05:55a real collaboration, a real, like, you know, opportunity to work with someone like Jonah,
06:05who really runs a tight ship and is very exacting and is very specific, but he's super creative
06:12and allows his creative departments to have fun and do things that are, you know, unique.
06:20Sometimes we had to press it a little bit and say, you know, come on, this is, we can
06:24do this, and once we showed him what it was, you know, you kind of won him over that way.
06:32But yeah, to me, just the fact that he was, a lot of times there's so many cooks in the kitchen
06:40that it's very hard to get that sort of like feeling of knowing what you're doing.
06:48You know, when he was, because he was in charge of it, he was just, I think all departments
06:53felt very beelined to what we were all doing, and we felt really together as a group.
07:02I think that was really beneficial and says a lot about his leadership.
07:07Trigger, what about for you when it comes to, you know, being a music supervisor and working
07:14with Jonathan on this? Well, yeah, it's amazing working with Jonah as a music supervisor because
07:20he's hugely into the music and, you know, definitely knows what he wants. And it's,
07:26it's something you just never know, depending on who you're working with, if they, sometimes it's
07:30like you go deal with that. But Jonah definitely has an opinion. He really, you know, gets really
07:35excited about the music and working with Allie really closely on the music as well. And she's,
07:40you know, they have a really short hand and trying to, you know, bring it to the next level at all
07:46times. And they think about music on so many different levels. So it's not just like it works
07:51for this scene. It also is telling a story for the whole season or the whole series and just
07:56be able to find those kind of hidden meanings and like foreshadowing and, you know, all those
08:01different. So I was really challenged working with Jonah in that way to try to bring the music to the
08:07next level. You totally do throughout because it's got such an excellent soundtrack to that point.
08:13How do you secure something like Orange Color Sky by Natkin Cole, which is such a part of the
08:18video game series, but for the TV, you know, but how do you get that for the TV show? Was it easy?
08:26Like what's the, I always love to hear a music supervision story and securing rights to a tune.
08:32Yeah. I mean, that, that wasn't, you know, his estate is, is not the hardest to deal with. So
08:40actually it was pretty smooth on that one, but you never know. I mean, a lot of times
08:45the rights will be, you know, 10% will be missing or they move around between different publishers
08:51because, you know, when the song's that old, it can be, we had a lot of issues throughout the
08:55season. That one in particular, I think was pretty smooth, but you also want to make sure that
09:02sometimes the artists had a different way of thinking about what they were open to and
09:07everything than their estate does or their descendants do. So a lot of times it's about
09:13fitting that brand of, of, you know, what the artist is known for. So it's, you're always
09:17messing with that when you're using their music again in the future. So I think that was, yeah,
09:23I mean, that's, that came into play a lot on this show, just trying to make sure that we could get
09:27things across the finish line. Cause once, once you have it cut to picture and they're like,
09:31this is amazing. Everybody loves it then. Oh, okay. We still have to get it. So I think that
09:38you know, that's always a challenge for sure. Yeah. And Ali, what about you? What was it like
09:43collaborating with Jonah on this? And like, is there a scene that you were like, I'm kind of
09:50nervous to show this to him, but here we go. I'm going to go with it, but I spent so long on it
09:55and this is, it's over to him now. I adore working with Jonah. I think he creates an environment
10:03where he, he expects a lot and pushes everyone to do their best, but also enables everyone to
10:10do their best. And he, as a director brings such a strong point of view. And you know,
10:20part of that is enabling, I think his department heads like Jake and Amy, Jay, you know, Howard,
10:26everyone to put such detail and texture into the world. And like, he's, he's so strong at
10:33world building. And that's in the details as well as the scope. And then, you know,
10:41he has got really good taste in terms of style and pacing and tone. And yeah, again, just pushes,
10:49pushes us all to do our best, has really great taste and sensibility in music and tone.
10:57Yeah. And it's, it's such an incredible, you know, series and, and, you know, you're also cutting,
11:04you know, incredible action sequences versus like those quiet moments with Lucy that don't have,
11:12you know, a stun or explosion or something going on in the background. Like what, what's the,
11:17what was the, the most challenging to cut? Like, is it more challenging to cut an action sequence
11:24or is it getting the tone of, you know, a quieter moment? I think every scene has its challenge.
11:31There isn't a single scene I wouldn't love to have the chance to cut again. What was great
11:37about the pilot was the number of times we got to change tone from, from pretty heavy and dramatic
11:44in the open to immediately kind of slapping the audience in the face with the irony in the,
11:52the opening montage with Lucy to, you know, the action and kind of irony and ballet of the,
12:03the raider scene in the vault and the subtlety of Walton's performance and,
12:11and Aaron's performance as Max, like there was, there was just so much there to play with.
12:17And like, as Trigga said, like Trigga and I worked really close together. The music editors,
12:24Chris and Clint and I worked really close together. Like music is a big part of my process
12:28and figuring out tone and pacing. And, you know, some of these scenes, we knew the song going in
12:36and some of them, it took a little while to find like, what is the right tone to convey the feeling?
12:42I love that. Amy, talk about bringing the ghoul to the screen and understanding that process
12:49behind who, you know, behind that costume and what made him the ghoul.
12:57Just like, exactly what Jay and Jay were saying, it starts with Walton and it really like,
13:03he's such a unique individual, but he, he sort of carries himself with such a,
13:09such a swagger and a sexiness about him that it was really important that we don't lose that,
13:16you know, all the dirt and, and everything that, that he carries around and all these layers and
13:22all this, you know, it was sort of important that we work with him, his, his body shape and, and,
13:28and just who he is to sort of hone in to what, what made that guy from Cooper, you know? So,
13:41it was great actually doing the fittings with him. It was so informative for me of what,
13:47of where we were going with the character and, and, and how much to, how much could we push it?
13:54And he was, you know, I, I really just feel like when you're working with an actor of his caliber,
14:00it's, it's so much more fun and so much more rewarding to do our jobs because it's like this,
14:08this fantastic team player that's ready for anything. And so he was, yeah, it was, it was,
14:13it was a great process, I think, for, for all of us.
14:17I mean, going back to, to the, you know, the makeup process a little bit, what was,
14:24like, how long was that application process? I mean, we've kind of touched it in the past before,
14:30but for our audience here that has never heard how you refined and finessed that process,
14:37talk about that. Well, the, the first test of any makeup is always going to take time
14:42because you're trying to find it. You're not going in there with any sort of
14:46pre-painted things. You're seeing how things fit and all that stuff. So first test was done with
14:50myself and Vincent on, on Walton, and it took about five hours, but it was very leisure.
14:55There was no sort of, there was no gun to the head as far as we had to get this done. It was
14:59our day to do it. And we deliberately didn't want anybody from production involved with that one,
15:04just so we could debug it before we presented it to production for the first time. So we could see
15:10if we had any real issues that we had to contend with before that, that second viewing, if you will.
15:14And then it's just a matter of like, once you kind of got going with it, I think the first day
15:21that I did it solo was probably maybe three hours of change and learned a lot from that one.
15:28And I've done shows in the past where I've had to replicate a makeup
15:32quite a number of times. And usually when you get to about the 10th to 15th application,
15:37you've kind of said, okay, I think I've got this about as finessed as I could.
15:42You figure out all the shortcuts, you pre-paint the appliances so they can go on quicker.
15:47I think the fastest I got it on was about an hour and a half, but it usually lived about,
15:53you know, hour 45, maybe two if we took a long break or something like that. But it was definitely
15:58a manageable time. And I have an issue too, when you're designing a makeup, I think it's a
16:04disservice to the actor, production, yourself to indulge in a makeup that runs like four hours,
16:10five hours or whatever, because now you've done all this work and now they're going to start their
16:14day. And it just doesn't, it doesn't seem right in my world. And I try to, I don't say I'm the
16:20most impatient person in the world, but I like to get it done and get on with it.
16:25Jay, I mean, we've talked a little bit about the makeup and the VFX, but there is,
16:32the VFX on the show is incredible. The world building, you know, working with Howard,
16:37like, is there a sequence that you were like, I spent so much time on this,
16:41but I'm so proud of how this actually came out? Oh, wow.
16:48I know it's like asking you to pick your favorite child.
16:50Well, there were just, there were so many different nuances of things like, you know,
16:56like what we've been saying, collaborating with Jonah is such a privilege. You know,
17:02thankfully I'm able to be brought in pretty early on these ones. So, you know, we were
17:07looking at locations and reading things in November of 2021, and then doing scouting in
17:122020, early 2022. And it was really like for world building, it was getting to go to Namibia
17:19and seeing this amazing place that Howard found and kind of realizing, okay, well,
17:26let's build around that. And the sequence that was probably the most versions, I mean, Ali,
17:34probably the gulper on the dock, that was the one that lived the longest.
17:41And we had some other unique ones that were just like, he kept going back and forth on.
17:48Some things though, were actually really quick. That was the other fun part is like,
17:52we found the one where she came out from the vault, you know, right on the coast at Santa
17:57Monica Pier. You know, that one, we had some fun with the design of that one, but that was more,
18:05even the first version was like kind of magical. And then it was just about nuances and details
18:11and how to make it sing. But really the gulper, because of the detail of the creature,
18:18but even that one, to be honest, we didn't have a whole lot of detours this season, honestly.
18:24Jonah and Graham in Geneva, they had such a clear vision and the work we did early on with Howard
18:32and with all of the design really kind of gave us a template where we kind of knew our direction
18:38for most of the season. We had a couple of things here and there where we'd, you know,
18:42we had to figure out like the LAX airport oddly took a long time because it was like, how many
18:47planes and where should the sand be? And that one was added in post. So we didn't have that initial
18:53design part. And when we had that initial design part, we designed all our creatures early. So we
18:58had time to chew on it and to have it percolate and marinate. And that made the ending process
19:06actually a lot smoother. Finding the design of the Cyclops took a long time just because
19:12it's hard to make a Cyclops, like we were talking about performance. It was really hard to make a
19:16Cyclops that felt like he had some humanity and humor and all this other stuff. And we started
19:22our first design on that and it was awful. Like it looked horrible. We're like, oh, I can't show
19:27this to anybody. And trying to figure out how to do a full digital face while keeping his
19:35performance was probably the, that was one of the nuanced challenges we had. And I've told
19:40the story before, but it was really when we decided to put two eyebrows on him because almost
19:44all Cyclopses have one eyebrow. And when we gave him two eyebrows, it was like, how did we not think
19:48of this before? But that was what kind of brought his performance to life in a really beautiful way.
19:55That was an amazing moment. But just looking back for all of you, you know, the series has
20:00been so well received by audiences around the world and the fans of the game
20:07love it. What is it like for you to see the reaction from both fans of the game and this
20:14new audience who have, you know, who are just in love with this world that you've built? Jake, I'm
20:19going to start with you. I'm not a gamer, so I was kind of in the dark on a lot of this stuff,
20:26which I think probably had benefited a little bit. And I've worked on a lot of projects that have had
20:31some rather epic, you know, elements to it and all that, but some obviously didn't work out that well.
20:37I remember the first time that I thought, you know, this seems like this could really be
20:41something, was they had, we had a wrap party in New York and they had a little teaser reel
20:46that had stuff in there and it had some rudimentary VFX stuff in it, but obviously not completed and
20:52all that. But I remember finishing when that was finished, my jaw was almost on the ground.
20:57I was like, oh my God. And I loved it. The choice of music was fantastic because I'm an old-timey
21:03guy anyway. And I, you know, was listening to that stuff through my mom and all that growing up. So I
21:08just think the whole, the whole package really, really impressed me. And the variety of everything
21:13that was great about it was you've got some insane humor, you've got some absolutely, you know,
21:17grotesque imagery, you've got fantasy elements, there's love stories. I mean, it really, you've
21:22got a, you've got a whole smorgasbord right there and it's fantastic. Jay, what has it been like for
21:27you? It's been really special. I've been able to randomly get to speak on some different panels in
21:34some different countries and like, it's so crazy when you're in other places. And I mean, this is
21:41the beauty of the world, right? Is that you can have these mutual conversations and you can be
21:46talking to someone, you know, on a plane. I was speaking in Moldova of all places and they love
21:52it there. They're like, oh, they're like, I'm like, how many people here have watched the show? It's
21:55like everybody. I'm like, to realize the worldwide global effect of a game like Fallout and the
22:04belovedness of it and to see how many, how much people are embracing it. It's special. It's a
22:15unique one where, and non-gamers too, like we were saying. I'll be talking to some friends that I
22:23haven't talked to in a lot of years. They're like, my mom loves your show. I'm like, your mom? Like,
22:28you know, I just love that it's hitting different people. You know, you get the gamer community and
22:34you get just people who really don't maybe have that as a connection point, but it's resonating
22:40in a way that I think is really special and across the board. And Jake, I had the same thing.
22:46You know, you read the script and, you know, you get into the project and you get in the weeds
22:51and then you start seeing the footage and you're like, oh, this is special. This is a special one.
22:58Love that. Allie, what about for you? I mean, it's such an honor and a pressure when you work
23:05on something that is beloved by so many people. Like Jake, I think I'm not a gamer, but I was,
23:12like Fallout was the kind of one property I was familiar with the tone and it always seemed
23:16different and unique and like it had its own voice. And then like, that's something to honor
23:21the fans. You have to protect, you have to show them, we got you, we love it too. And then for
23:27the people who are, who don't know that world, you want to invite them in and make it a place
23:33for them too. And I think it was brilliant of Graham and Geneva and Jonah to, you know,
23:40to tell an original story set in an existing world. And it's an honor to get to be a part of
23:46that and help translate the tone and throwing it back to Trigga. Like, you know, we opened with a
23:52song from the game with, you know, Orange Colored Sky, but one of the other songs that Trigga had
23:58pitched for the open was, and I'm spacing on the Nat King Cole, Trigga Help Me Out Tomorrow.
24:06There's no tomorrow, no.
24:07There's, yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. What is it?
24:10I'm spacing. It's the one that's in, it's in 108.
24:13I Don't Want to See Tomorrow was one of the other songs that he pitched for the open. And as we were
24:18working on the whole season, it was a song that when I was playing it in my bay, people would
24:25stop by and be like, what is that? And that's a song that's not from the game and has this
24:32perfect elegance, but also like a hint of a wink and fun to it that is like so perfectly Fallout.
24:39And I'm so happy we found a place for it in the season. And so I guess being able to honor the
24:45game and also speak with a new voice, you know, I think that's important, an important part of
24:52building the world of the show and an honor. Trigga, what about you?
24:58Yeah. It's it's just been amazing to see that. I mean, obviously we knew there was the built-in
25:03game audience making sure they were happy and then just seeing as everyone's mentioned,
25:08how much broader than that it has been. And yeah, there's so many different things for everyone
25:14in the show, which, yeah, it's incredible. Just the amount of people that come out of the
25:18woodwork to reach out and just say how much they loved it, which has been amazing. Like, you know,
25:23I've had plenty of projects that were, that did well, but never had a response like this.
25:28It's incredible. So, and we knew it was good, but it's, yeah, it's amazing.
25:33So many emails and texts. I'm like, oh, I haven't talked to this person in 15 years.
25:37Exactly.
25:38And now they want something.
25:43Incredible. Amy, what about for you? What is, what has it been like?
25:46Well, similar to everybody here, you know, it was such a great honor to be involved with the
25:52game that was so, that had its audience already built in and it was, you know, so well regarded
25:58and so quirky and unique in its tone. And I think we were all really petrified that we would,
26:06there's so many pitfalls, so many different places where you can screw up and, and there,
26:13you know, as now with the internet, I mean, you could get trounced very easily and very fast.
26:19Um, so I think, you know, it was just the fact that fans liked it, even though we changed some
26:26things. I mean, we always stayed true to the immediate, you know, the sort of skeleton of the
26:31game, uh, as I call it, but we did expound and do our own thing on, for, for a lot of different
26:39areas. And it was like, I hope this works kind of thing. And I think, I think, um,
26:44when the fans accepted it and people got excited about it and didn't
26:48hammer it online, uh, it was just like, it was validating for all of us. I think like,
26:53fuck you, you know. And yeah, a relief. Yes, exactly.
27:00Amazing. Amazing. Well, I want to congratulate you all on all the successes of Fallout and thank
27:08you so much for that incredible conversation and insight into your process and your craft and
27:14working on the series. And thank you all so much again for that conversation.
27:18Thank you, Jaz. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks a lot.