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Short filmTranscript
00:00:00Maybe at this very moment, you have heard the slight crunching of the wood of a piece of furniture.
00:00:20It is possible that a door closes violently without any current of air.
00:00:27Maybe in a few moments, you feel a kind of cold breath that produces a shudder.
00:00:34Probably all this is due to natural causes.
00:00:38But it is also possible that an unwanted incline has been installed in your house,
00:00:43and that these phenomena increase and increase until they make your life a little less than impossible.
00:00:49If so, you are going to be the victim of a poltergeist.
00:00:54For some, it is a phenomenon of ultratumbo, spirits that have not found peace,
00:00:59and that try to attract the attention of the living, to bother them.
00:01:03For others, it is purely a paranormal phenomenon, the influence of the mind,
00:01:09the unconscious of a resident of the house, distressed by matter.
00:01:14We are going to talk about it, we are going to deal with poltergeists,
00:01:18and we will do it with specialists who will provide their experience and their opinions.
00:01:23Perhaps it is better to be prepared.
00:01:47They are recordings and photographs of old houses.
00:01:50From mansions of impressive appearance to rustic country houses,
00:01:55solar buildings and small buildings lost in a alley in any city.
00:02:02They all have a common denominator that has made them famous.
00:02:07Inexplicable noises, doors that open and close violently without apparent cause,
00:02:13furniture that invisible hands push along the room or lift in the air,
00:02:20sounds stepped on empty stairs, objects that, as moved by a spring,
00:02:26leave their usual place to violently crash against the floor or the wall.
00:02:34They are infected houses, invaded by unknown energies.
00:02:40Houses that one day received the visit of something, or someone,
00:02:45coming from the other side of reality that decided to stay.
00:02:50Entities that are usually invisible and of unknown nature,
00:02:54but that do not cease to be real for this reason.
00:02:57Sometimes endowed with extraordinary force, violent, unexpected,
00:03:02and what is even more disturbing, acting intentionally, with intelligence.
00:03:16THE CITY OF BALBAS
00:03:25They are not old or distant events.
00:03:28They continue to occur as frequently as before,
00:03:32and around us, in any house in the city.
00:03:37Like this one, in a colony of small chalets of the 1950s,
00:03:41in a central area of Madrid.
00:03:46THE CITY OF BALBAS
00:03:54Fernando Martínez, architect, who spent his childhood and youth in it,
00:03:59has been, and continues to be, a witness to this type of disconcerting phenomena
00:04:05that we call poltergeist.
00:04:08This started practically since an accident occurred at home with my sister,
00:04:14who killed herself.
00:04:16And it seems that since then, my mother has always told me
00:04:20that phenomena began to occur at home.
00:04:27My sister was three years old and had an accident.
00:04:33Here, at home, she fell on the terrace and killed herself.
00:04:40I had not been born then.
00:04:42That's why I say that this has been going on for more than 40 years.
00:04:52Well, look, I came from school and always took the dog out,
00:04:56as soon as I got home in the afternoon.
00:04:58And my mother was here, where we are.
00:05:01Of course, this was in a different way.
00:05:03And I asked my mother what was going on at school.
00:05:06And I said, well, look, I learned some poems.
00:05:09She said, well, recite them to me.
00:05:11And just after reciting the poems, up here, at the end of the stairs,
00:05:15there were five great applause, but they had big hands.
00:05:20And of course, that left us perplexed.
00:05:23And the dog, who was a German shepherd, went up.
00:05:26In addition, it was quite fierce.
00:05:28In fact, I had problems with it, because it bit several people.
00:05:33So, it ran up those stairs and stayed in the gap.
00:05:36And the animal did not go up.
00:05:38All the furrowed hair, the fur, you know how it gets.
00:05:41And it did not dare to go up.
00:05:43And in fact, it did not go up, it stayed there.
00:05:46And of course, my mother and I, who were alone,
00:05:49well, the truth is that I remember that,
00:05:51especially when I saw my mother's face of fear.
00:05:54That impressed me.
00:05:56It was the first thing I remember recently.
00:06:03Raps on the walls, mimeophonies,
00:06:06that is, sounds that at a given moment, well,
00:06:09doors that knock, doors that open and close.
00:06:13The sound of the footsteps of the stairs was,
00:06:16I think it was more frequent.
00:06:18Some deep footsteps that go up.
00:06:21The stairs reach the gap.
00:06:23Then they go up the section, right?
00:06:26But of all those types of experiences that you have lived in this house,
00:06:30there was one that impressed you especially, right?
00:06:34I no longer lived in this house, I was already tired, I lived in mine.
00:06:38And I called here because I had to collect some documents.
00:06:42And I was waiting for a brother of mine who was coming on a trip.
00:06:45As I did not have a key, well, I called because I was in a hurry.
00:06:49Because, in fact, I was going on vacation the next day
00:06:51and it was essential to leave those papers in the notary.
00:06:54What did you do? Did you call from time to time to see if your brother had arrived?
00:06:57Exactly, just to say, hey, if he's already here,
00:06:59come closer for a moment and I'll take these papers.
00:07:02And curiously, on one occasion,
00:07:05well, to tell you that my father had died about 6 or 7 months earlier.
00:07:10Well, from January to July it would be.
00:07:13Yes, about 6 months.
00:07:15And on one occasion they hung up the phone.
00:07:18And I thought, of course, right away, because he had already arrived.
00:07:21And there was someone at home.
00:07:23And it was a voice that told me textually,
00:07:26my son, I'm alone.
00:07:29But it was, or it seemed to me, my father's voice.
00:07:32Well, in fact, I have no doubt.
00:07:34I suppose that if your mother calls you on the phone,
00:07:37or you hear the voice of someone you know,
00:07:39well, you know perfectly who it is.
00:07:41And that, yes, Fernanda, that impressed me.
00:07:44I was telling you, this house was empty.
00:07:46Your brother had not arrived, there was no one.
00:07:49Of the several times you call to check if someone has arrived,
00:07:53you call on one of those occasions.
00:07:55Yes, it was three in the afternoon or so.
00:07:57And someone picks up the phone and hears your father's voice.
00:08:00Yes, but it was going to be a voice that was a little hurtful.
00:08:03It was like saying, I'm alone,
00:08:06like complaining that I was alone.
00:08:09And that impressed me, the truth is that it has been the only thing,
00:08:13throughout all these years.
00:08:15That you hear the voice of your dead father.
00:08:18Today I was not able to react.
00:08:20Maybe today, I don't know, I would have done the same.
00:08:23But I was not able to react.
00:08:25The truth is that with the phone, it impressed me a lot.
00:08:28And then I reacted late, because, in fact, I thought,
00:08:31I said, well, if this happens, well, I'll go.
00:08:35And I came, of course, I could not enter, I did not have a key,
00:08:38my brother had not arrived yet,
00:08:40because he had had a problem with the car and arrived at night.
00:08:46A curious fact was that of a typewriter.
00:08:50And it's funny, because I had asked my brother,
00:08:54for Reyes, to give him a typewriter,
00:08:57my older brother, who was a university student at the time.
00:09:00And then I shared a room with him.
00:09:03He was with his electric typewriter,
00:09:05he did not let anyone touch it.
00:09:07And one afternoon, the typewriter was ringing.
00:09:11And of course, as he was here with my sister,
00:09:13he thought it was me.
00:09:15And he started shouting,
00:09:16leave the machine, I'm going to give you two cakes, and so on.
00:09:19Screaming, because as the machine was still ringing,
00:09:22he went up, willing to cut,
00:09:26not to touch his machine.
00:09:28And of course, inside the room, there was no one.
00:09:30In this room was the machine, even with its cover, and so on.
00:09:34I imagine there have been things.
00:09:36And many years ago,
00:09:39those types of stains, of light, appear
00:09:44in different places, not in all the photos.
00:09:47Maybe in a sweep of 50 or 60 photos,
00:09:49there are 3, 4 or 5, but that has always happened.
00:09:53And in fact, the last ones, I don't know,
00:09:55it was a couple of months ago.
00:09:57And specifically, this happened to my mother,
00:10:00lying in bed.
00:10:04This type of energy that appears in the photos,
00:10:09in a way, in the dark, with the light off,
00:10:12well, it started to take shape.
00:10:15And in fact, she was in bed,
00:10:20and the sheets were coming down.
00:10:23So she went up to the sheets, and they came down again.
00:10:27And then it was when she realized
00:10:29that there was a kind of stain, or mist, or halo of light,
00:10:35just at the end of her bed.
00:10:39And does one get used to that?
00:10:42Well, yes, I think so.
00:10:44You get used to it over the years.
00:10:51Applause of invisible hands,
00:10:54doors that open and close by themselves,
00:10:57windows that fall and go up again,
00:11:00furniture that changes places,
00:11:02dead people answering the phone,
00:11:06ringing bells that ring over and over again,
00:11:09that's what poltergeists are like.
00:11:13Waiting for a new tenant, the house is empty,
00:11:17but not uninhabited.
00:11:28Siren wails
00:11:48Ringing bell
00:11:51Ringing bell
00:11:57Siren wails
00:12:00Ringing bell
00:12:03Ringing bell
00:12:09Ringing bell
00:12:12Ringing bell
00:12:23Ringing bell
00:12:26Ringing bell
00:12:34Ringing bell
00:12:37Ringing bell
00:12:40Ringing bell
00:12:48Well, before we begin,
00:12:52I'm going to introduce you to today's guests,
00:12:56who are already known to you,
00:12:58they have all been on some other program.
00:13:01Juan Vallejo, collaborator of Canal Sur Radio and Television,
00:13:06collaborator also of the magazine Enigmas,
00:13:09a tenacious, experienced researcher,
00:13:12who has already lived his experiences with poltergeist, right?
00:13:16Yes, the field where I have written and researched so far, yes.
00:13:21And have I ever had any surprises?
00:13:24Well, you won't tell them now.
00:13:26Lorenzo Fernández, editor-in-chief of the magazine Enigmas,
00:13:30writer, researcher,
00:13:33despite being young, he has been kicking the roads for many years.
00:13:37A little less than you, but yes.
00:13:40And going where the unusual happens.
00:13:42Also the poltergeist phenomena.
00:13:44Yes, for me, of course.
00:13:46He has investigated a few, right?
00:13:49I think the poltergeist phenomenon is something closer,
00:13:52and that it is worth investigating.
00:13:54Good.
00:13:55Well, Pedro Amoroski,
00:13:57you were here when we talked about psychophonies.
00:14:00It has a lot to do with poltergeist.
00:14:02Without a doubt, of course.
00:14:03But, well, you have investigated poltergeist cases a lot.
00:14:06You have been investigating transcommunication for 16 years.
00:14:09Of course.
00:14:10Psychophonies and psychoimaging.
00:14:12But mainly through the places where there are poltergeist phenomena, right?
00:14:17Evidently.
00:14:18Good.
00:14:19Needless to say, we said it at the time,
00:14:21that you are one of the most recognized experts,
00:14:24that your name already has an international weight
00:14:27on the subject of psychophony, above all.
00:14:29We do what we can.
00:14:31Well, what can be done is quite good in your case.
00:14:34Well, thank you very much.
00:14:36I would dare to say that among the phenomena
00:14:38that make up parapsychology,
00:14:40the poltergeists or poltergeists,
00:14:43is undoubtedly the most interesting,
00:14:45the most disturbing,
00:14:47the most attractive,
00:14:49and the one that mobilizes the young researchers the most.
00:14:52Well, we will see,
00:14:55throughout the symposium,
00:14:57in which direction we lean,
00:14:59if we think we are facing a supernatural phenomenon
00:15:03or we are facing another type of phenomenon
00:15:06that can fit within the known.
00:15:09But I would like you to start by telling experiences.
00:15:14You, Juan, have just published an article
00:15:19about a conservatory where things are happening, right?
00:15:23Exactly.
00:15:24You have already published several articles,
00:15:26from different places,
00:15:27another of them, well, a house of García Lorca,
00:15:29where things are also happening.
00:15:31What was going on,
00:15:32or what is going on in that conservatory in Granada?
00:15:35The case of the conservatory,
00:15:36the truth is that I think it has just begun.
00:15:38It is a case that will continue to evolve
00:15:40and as we investigate,
00:15:42many more things will come out.
00:15:44It all started with a team from Canal Sur
00:15:46who went there to record a roof,
00:15:48the building that had fallen,
00:15:50and several workers from the building
00:15:53told them that they had had some experience
00:15:56for several years,
00:15:57especially in the basement,
00:15:58in the lower part,
00:16:00in a place that is full of galleries,
00:16:01quite large,
00:16:03and almost 20 years ago,
00:16:04in 1971-1979,
00:16:06as they say,
00:16:07it seems that they took down
00:16:09a lot of old furniture
00:16:11that was in the building
00:16:13and several employees saw, amazed,
00:16:15how the drawers opened,
00:16:17they closed themselves,
00:16:18even the smallest ones,
00:16:19they say they even came out shot.
00:16:21They ran out, of course,
00:16:23they gave part to the former director of the building,
00:16:26which the only thing he did was
00:16:28to say that he had also had experience,
00:16:31instead of telling him,
00:16:32are you crazy,
00:16:33are you crazy,
00:16:34he confessed to them
00:16:35that he had had experience,
00:16:36specifically he spoke to other teachers
00:16:38of the building
00:16:39and they say that this man
00:16:40who passed away two years ago,
00:16:42says that when he was alone
00:16:44to sleep there in the building
00:16:45to study at night and such,
00:16:47he heard a piano playing alone.
00:16:50So, well,
00:16:51he says he was leaving the room,
00:16:54Andrea is already scared,
00:16:55he was leaving the room
00:16:57and at first he was talking about Paquita,
00:17:01who was a teacher who had died,
00:17:02then he said,
00:17:03come on Paquita,
00:17:04stop giving the can,
00:17:05I don't know what,
00:17:06in a loving way,
00:17:07but well,
00:17:08this phenomenon,
00:17:09continuing to insist on time,
00:17:11led him to take the keys of the building at night
00:17:14and go to the auditorium
00:17:15where the piano was heard.
00:17:17The most curious thing is that,
00:17:18well,
00:17:19not only that it was a bang and such,
00:17:20but he says he did arpeggios,
00:17:22even chord links alone.
00:17:24When he arrived
00:17:25to the outside of the conservatory,
00:17:27sorry,
00:17:28of the auditorium
00:17:29and introduced the key,
00:17:30he says he noticed
00:17:31as if the music was moving away,
00:17:33then,
00:17:34when he entered,
00:17:35he says that music was no longer heard,
00:17:36he discards that it was a mouse or something,
00:17:38because the lid is always left closed,
00:17:41since the piano is of high quality
00:17:42and is quite expensive,
00:17:44and that a mouse,
00:17:45in the hypothetical case
00:17:46that it was by the strings,
00:17:47does not make arpeggios
00:17:48or chord links,
00:17:49which is very curious.
00:17:50There are mice,
00:17:51with a very broad training.
00:17:54But with that musical repertoire,
00:17:57it is tremendous.
00:17:58Generally,
00:17:59this type of event
00:18:00reaches the investigators
00:18:02through the jury guards,
00:18:04through the people
00:18:05who watch the building
00:18:06at night,
00:18:08because there is a preference
00:18:10in those events
00:18:11for the night hours
00:18:12or during the day,
00:18:13the noise,
00:18:14because many of them
00:18:15are official buildings
00:18:16and headquarters
00:18:17of some institutions,
00:18:18in this case,
00:18:19a conservatory,
00:18:20and during the day
00:18:21there is the normal noise
00:18:23that prevents
00:18:24those noises from manifesting,
00:18:26or is the night
00:18:27especially conducive
00:18:28to that type of event.
00:18:31Maybe I have a little bit
00:18:33of what you have commented.
00:18:35The night is conducive
00:18:36because, without a doubt,
00:18:37I am one of those who think
00:18:39that the poltergeist phenomenon
00:18:40is 90% caused by the mind.
00:18:43Because...
00:18:44No, by the mind.
00:18:45How can it be caused
00:18:46by the mind?
00:18:47Andrés, get involved with him.
00:18:48How can it be caused by the mind?
00:18:50Let me give him a...
00:18:51Paquita,
00:18:52the teacher Paquita.
00:18:55The altered state of consciousness
00:18:56we know that,
00:18:57sometimes,
00:18:58according to psychologists,
00:19:00it awakens a series
00:19:03of mental potentials
00:19:05that, in the end,
00:19:06evoke strange movements
00:19:08of things,
00:19:09as they have occurred
00:19:10and there are evidence
00:19:11or testimonies.
00:19:13And it seems that this is it.
00:19:15That's why I think
00:19:16that, generally,
00:19:17when a researcher
00:19:18or a person
00:19:19takes, in my case,
00:19:20a microphone
00:19:21to try to record
00:19:22a psychophony
00:19:23or simply takes a camera
00:19:25to take some photographs
00:19:26of an abandoned cemetery,
00:19:28a house where they say
00:19:29that strange things have happened,
00:19:31then that's when it happens to him.
00:19:34A person who goes there
00:19:35quietly,
00:19:36I don't know,
00:19:37on a visit,
00:19:38in the middle of the day
00:19:39or something,
00:19:40possibly,
00:19:41nothing happens to him.
00:19:42Why does this happen?
00:19:43Perhaps the mental state,
00:19:44the predisposition
00:19:45that the person has
00:19:46to what happens to him at night,
00:19:48undoubtedly favors
00:19:49that this happens.
00:19:50Let's see,
00:19:51the poltergeist is...
00:19:52First, why is it called poltergeist?
00:19:53What does it mean?
00:19:54It's a word that means
00:19:55playboy,
00:19:56naughty,
00:19:57a bad word.
00:19:58It has nothing to do
00:19:59with ghosts,
00:20:00in principle.
00:20:01Yes.
00:20:02Is there a ghost
00:20:03seen in the cases
00:20:04of poltergeist?
00:20:05Yes.
00:20:06It can be seen.
00:20:07Supposedly, yes.
00:20:08I have a case,
00:20:09for example,
00:20:10in Las Burros, Granada,
00:20:11where, yes,
00:20:12even the case
00:20:13of a person
00:20:14recognized after death.
00:20:15There was a photograph
00:20:16of her in the building
00:20:17and several of the guys
00:20:18who saw her
00:20:19later recognized the photograph,
00:20:20the commander Ballesteros.
00:20:21It was also curious
00:20:22that they mounted
00:20:23in the hall of the building.
00:20:24There were about six,
00:20:25seven people,
00:20:26I already talked
00:20:27to several of them
00:20:28and then I found
00:20:29an anecdote
00:20:30of that interview
00:20:31that the truth
00:20:32that left me shocked.
00:20:33And these people,
00:20:34well,
00:20:35they comment
00:20:36that they are doing
00:20:37a poltergeist
00:20:38because a colleague of his
00:20:39had died.
00:20:40It's true,
00:20:41they voted, right?
00:20:42Yes,
00:20:43and she was doing
00:20:44a poltergeist
00:20:45trying to communicate
00:20:46with him
00:20:47and suddenly,
00:20:48they say
00:20:49that a man
00:20:50dressed in green
00:20:51was seen
00:20:52in the building.
00:20:53So,
00:20:54the man enters
00:20:55and stares at them.
00:20:56They are scared
00:20:57not because of the police
00:20:58but because
00:20:59they did not have
00:21:00the permission
00:21:01of the management
00:21:02to do those things
00:21:03at night
00:21:04as is normal.
00:21:05And then the man
00:21:06says to them,
00:21:07no, no,
00:21:08calm down,
00:21:09calm down,
00:21:10I've been here
00:21:11for many years
00:21:12and I want to see the building
00:21:13and it doesn't matter
00:21:14that I see it.
00:21:15And they say,
00:21:16ok, ok,
00:21:17you come in.
00:21:18So,
00:21:19when he comes in
00:21:20and he does
00:21:21something terrible
00:21:22or something,
00:21:23then we eat
00:21:24all the story.
00:21:25They go up,
00:21:26they go down,
00:21:27the man is nowhere,
00:21:28everything is closed
00:21:29and that's it.
00:21:30Then,
00:21:31another curious thing
00:21:32is that he describes
00:21:33the same person,
00:21:34a man dressed in green
00:21:35who matches
00:21:36those photos.
00:21:37The anecdote
00:21:38I wanted to tell you
00:21:39is that it was funny
00:21:40when one of the guys
00:21:41I was with
00:21:42was of the gypsy race
00:21:43and you know
00:21:44how gypsies are
00:21:45for this subject,
00:21:46for this subject,
00:21:47all the culture
00:21:48so rich
00:21:49and so beautiful
00:21:50that they have.
00:21:51And I remember
00:21:52that he grabbed me
00:21:53by the arm
00:21:54and said,
00:21:55Juan,
00:21:56I saw him
00:21:57and I swear
00:21:58on my father's grave.
00:21:59I stayed
00:22:00and said,
00:22:01ok, Manolo,
00:22:02no,
00:22:03I'm telling you,
00:22:04it's true,
00:22:05I believe it,
00:22:06it's true.
00:22:07But one thing
00:22:08is what they tell you
00:22:09and well,
00:22:10I imagine
00:22:11that in most,
00:22:12in many occasions
00:22:13there is no reason
00:22:14to doubt
00:22:15those testimonies
00:22:16because they are
00:22:17contrasted with others
00:22:18that are not true.
00:22:19I suppose
00:22:20that you can be fooled
00:22:21like everyone else
00:22:22but it is more difficult
00:22:23to be fooled
00:22:24by you
00:22:25than by Andrés
00:22:26or me,
00:22:27for example.
00:22:28But have you
00:22:29yourself
00:22:30witnessed
00:22:31events
00:22:32in those places?
00:22:33Well,
00:22:34look,
00:22:35I can tell you
00:22:36that I have not
00:22:37become a witness
00:22:38but I have been
00:22:39where supposedly
00:22:40something strange
00:22:41was being seen
00:22:42or a silhouette
00:22:43that they identified
00:22:44approximately
00:22:45two and a half meters
00:22:46was on the other
00:22:47side of the door
00:22:48and I was right
00:22:49on the other side.
00:22:50Two and a half meters high.
00:22:51Yes.
00:22:52This,
00:22:53look,
00:22:54this was an initiative
00:22:55that we started
00:22:56in the Enigmas magazine
00:22:57was to make a compilation
00:22:58with the cases
00:22:59in official buildings
00:23:00and curiously
00:23:01where we thought
00:23:02to publish a single report
00:23:03suddenly we found ourselves
00:23:04overwhelmed
00:23:05with a number of places
00:23:06in the entire
00:23:07Spanish geography.
00:23:08Impressive.
00:23:09Look,
00:23:10the spies have
00:23:11a bureaucratic soul.
00:23:12Well,
00:23:13it is possible
00:23:14or maybe
00:23:15they make no distinction.
00:23:16They have settled
00:23:17on old buildings
00:23:18that have been palaces
00:23:19or that have been hospitals
00:23:20or that have been lodgings.
00:23:21Well,
00:23:22continue.
00:23:23In this case
00:23:24I am talking about
00:23:25the Faculty of Law
00:23:26of Córdoba.
00:23:27We moved there
00:23:28and there was
00:23:29one of the law
00:23:30professors
00:23:31waiting for us,
00:23:32a very skeptical person.
00:23:33In fact,
00:23:34when we arrived
00:23:35with all the team
00:23:36that we moved to the place
00:23:37he looked at us
00:23:38saying,
00:23:39these crazy people,
00:23:40let's see what they are going to do.
00:23:41I can assure you
00:23:42how the night would pass
00:23:43that in the end
00:23:44the professor
00:23:45would tell us
00:23:46about the fear
00:23:47that he had in his body.
00:23:48Well,
00:23:49the night was truly
00:23:50I am not going to tell you
00:23:51that it was terrible
00:23:52but it was to run away.
00:23:53It was an old building.
00:23:54It had been
00:23:55well,
00:23:56there was an area
00:23:57that was the cloister
00:23:58of the 16th century.
00:23:59In a corridor
00:24:00that led to the cloister
00:24:01the old monks
00:24:02who lived there
00:24:03were buried.
00:24:04And the truth is
00:24:05that the place
00:24:06in itself,
00:24:07when the night falls
00:24:08with the trees,
00:24:09the oranges
00:24:10full of birds
00:24:11with the noises
00:24:12they make,
00:24:13in short,
00:24:14in a skeptical area
00:24:15where the room
00:24:16does not believe anything
00:24:17unless it sees it,
00:24:18well, that day
00:24:19it broke all its schemes
00:24:20because in the company
00:24:21of another person
00:24:22who had just met
00:24:23a researcher from Madrid
00:24:24they moved to that cloister
00:24:25where there was
00:24:26a tape recorder
00:24:27the technique
00:24:28they use
00:24:29they take a tape recorder
00:24:30to a closed circuit
00:24:31of television
00:24:32in such a way
00:24:33that you do not monitor
00:24:34you are constantly
00:24:35watching that tape recorder
00:24:36so that no one manipulates it.
00:24:37At the moment
00:24:38when they are going to change
00:24:39the tape
00:24:40they are left looking
00:24:41surprised
00:24:42because suddenly
00:24:43they go up
00:24:44and go back up
00:24:45they look up
00:24:46and they see
00:24:47on the second floor
00:24:48a shadow
00:24:49a silhouette
00:24:50of approximately
00:24:51two meters
00:24:52I tell you
00:24:53two and a half meters
00:24:54they identified it
00:24:55that it was right next
00:24:56to what was
00:24:57the morgue of the building
00:24:58because it had also been
00:24:59a hospital during the war
00:25:00at that moment
00:25:01I was going down
00:25:02by the other end
00:25:03of the building
00:25:04the stairs
00:25:05and I heard a scream
00:25:06that caught my attention
00:25:07a scream
00:25:08at this time of night
00:25:09but hey
00:25:10it could be from the street
00:25:11and at that moment
00:25:12when there is space
00:25:13I go down the stairs
00:25:14thank goodness
00:25:15I went down the stairs
00:25:16because if I open the door
00:25:17I find that
00:25:18these two people
00:25:19drew the same
00:25:20as soon as I found out
00:25:21what had happened
00:25:22I told them to draw me
00:25:23separately
00:25:24without me knowing
00:25:25what they had seen
00:25:26exactly the same
00:25:27and at that moment
00:25:28Fernando
00:25:29on the hard disk
00:25:30of the computer
00:25:31a psychophonic recording
00:25:32appears
00:25:33a recording
00:25:34that in a sense
00:25:35came to say something like
00:25:36love is random
00:25:37something that did not
00:25:38make any sense
00:25:39but by inverting
00:25:40the sense of the tape
00:25:41which is a classic
00:25:42that is made with
00:25:43the Rock Heavy disc
00:25:44that says that if you
00:25:45invert it
00:25:46it has a satanic message
00:25:47exactly the same
00:25:48it turned around
00:25:49and a voice came out
00:25:50of a truly unpleasant
00:25:51old woman
00:25:52who said
00:25:53something like this
00:25:54I'm going to kill you all
00:25:55and that at three
00:25:56in the morning
00:25:57but
00:25:58you
00:25:59you publicly
00:26:00manifest
00:26:01that you are
00:26:02amazing
00:26:03I remember when
00:26:04Lorenzo
00:26:05came to the newsroom
00:26:06after having
00:26:07spent that night
00:26:08and having heard
00:26:09that recording
00:26:10he did not come
00:26:11precisely
00:26:12happy
00:26:13but also
00:26:14from Andalusia
00:26:15and the death
00:26:16you always have to
00:26:17touch wood
00:26:18he is the morbo
00:26:19how can he be the morbo
00:26:20I don't know how many
00:26:21shows we have
00:26:2210, 11, 12
00:26:23and we are surrounded
00:26:24when you don't get
00:26:25a pitufo
00:26:26you get a ghost
00:26:27when you don't get
00:26:28a ghost
00:26:29you get an extraterrestrial
00:26:30and when in a Marian
00:26:31apparition
00:26:32we are very
00:26:33we are not
00:26:34at all calm
00:26:35in this world
00:26:36this reality
00:26:37is very complex
00:26:38the other reality
00:26:39is a part of it
00:26:40of course
00:26:41but in the case
00:26:42that you have told
00:26:43is that everything happens
00:26:44in the law faculty
00:26:45that you were saying
00:26:46it happens the poltergeist
00:26:47the ghost
00:26:48psychophony
00:26:49psycho-image
00:26:50I mean, there is no
00:26:51lack of detail
00:26:52in one night of those
00:26:53you have gathered
00:26:54everything that
00:26:55happens in all of this
00:26:56I tell you more
00:26:57is that I even
00:26:58when they told me
00:26:59these people
00:27:00that are totally
00:27:01confident
00:27:02I repeat to you
00:27:03that they do not believe
00:27:04in anything
00:27:05as you see it
00:27:06and that night
00:27:07was for them
00:27:08I had my doubts
00:27:09I mean, besides
00:27:10I hit my head
00:27:11against the walls
00:27:12to say
00:27:13why didn't I open
00:27:14the door
00:27:15to see him
00:27:16so much time
00:27:17looking for him
00:27:18and suddenly
00:27:19when it seems
00:27:20that he is there
00:27:21he takes you
00:27:22and takes you
00:27:23well, the truth
00:27:24is that the best
00:27:25is to open the door
00:27:26for example
00:27:27Pedro
00:27:28you were talking
00:27:29about
00:27:30you lean
00:27:31for the
00:27:32paranormal hypothesis
00:27:33yes, more or less
00:27:34that to a large extent
00:27:35it can be
00:27:36a psychic phenomenon
00:27:37that there is
00:27:38an energy
00:27:39that is there
00:27:40stored
00:27:41that is there
00:27:42potentially
00:27:43and that in
00:27:44certain circumstances
00:27:45it can come out
00:27:46but to the point
00:27:47of moving
00:27:48heavy objects
00:27:49yes, in fact
00:27:50I was a witness
00:27:51that's why
00:27:52I want to take you
00:27:53I was a witness
00:27:54on an occasion
00:27:55of a fairly
00:27:56strong fact
00:27:57that happened to us
00:27:58some researchers
00:27:59that we are
00:28:00making
00:28:01psychophonic recordings
00:28:02in a house
00:28:03where they said
00:28:04that strange things
00:28:05had happened
00:28:06Andrés
00:28:07when they tell you
00:28:08that in a house
00:28:09strange things happen
00:28:10the researcher
00:28:11is going to try
00:28:12to put his finger
00:28:13in the key
00:28:14but in this case
00:28:15it was incredible
00:28:16because it has been
00:28:17the first time
00:28:18in my life
00:28:19that I witnessed
00:28:20a strange movement
00:28:21a poltergeist movement
00:28:22live
00:28:23and also
00:28:24I kept the recording
00:28:25because it was
00:28:26I imagine
00:28:27that you go
00:28:28with the recorder
00:28:29everywhere
00:28:30to the cinema
00:28:31and you take it
00:28:32with you
00:28:33all the time
00:28:34just in case
00:28:35and you go
00:28:36to a house
00:28:37presumably
00:28:38with poltergeist phenomena
00:28:39but what did you see?
00:28:40well
00:28:41we were sitting
00:28:42on a step
00:28:43I remember
00:28:44that we had
00:28:45a small table
00:28:46where we put
00:28:47all the devices
00:28:48and in a moment
00:28:49one of the girls
00:28:50that were with us
00:28:51we were finishing
00:28:52the investigation
00:28:53she said
00:28:54well
00:28:55I would like
00:28:56to thank everyone
00:28:57for
00:28:58and suddenly
00:28:59when the girl
00:29:00said
00:29:01I would like
00:29:02to thank everyone
00:29:03for a board
00:29:04of about
00:29:0550 kilos of weight
00:29:06it was an incredible
00:29:07wooden beam
00:29:08that was holding
00:29:09one of the
00:29:10one of the
00:29:11gigantic doors
00:29:12that this house
00:29:13had
00:29:14she started to tremble
00:29:15and drag herself
00:29:16through the wall
00:29:17scratching
00:29:18what is the wall
00:29:19and scratching
00:29:20what is the floor
00:29:21scratching everything
00:29:22until it was
00:29:23stamped
00:29:24with a
00:29:25brutal sound
00:29:26that resounded
00:29:27in the whole house
00:29:28but the trajectory
00:29:29was normal
00:29:30the movement
00:29:31was from the edge
00:29:32of gravity
00:29:33the trajectory
00:29:34was a horizontal
00:29:35displacement
00:29:36by the wall
00:29:37scratching the floor
00:29:38and scratching the wall
00:29:39proof that
00:29:40the next day
00:29:41when we came back
00:29:42it was night
00:29:43and we came back
00:29:44to see what
00:29:45had happened
00:29:46we did not wonder
00:29:47because as a result
00:29:48of this
00:29:49strange things
00:29:50started to happen
00:29:51but well
00:29:52since we
00:29:53could not
00:29:54be there
00:29:55and as it was
00:29:56the logical
00:29:57circumstance
00:29:58in your case
00:29:59that you were
00:30:00recording
00:30:01what we can
00:30:02imagine
00:30:03the noise
00:30:04that this
00:30:05board
00:30:06produced
00:30:07through the wall
00:30:08and then
00:30:09I do not know
00:30:10if they have
00:30:11the tape
00:30:12in control
00:30:13I do not know
00:30:14if they are in
00:30:15a situation
00:30:16of yes
00:30:17let's
00:30:18let's
00:30:19listen to it
00:30:20during
00:30:21when that
00:30:22happens
00:30:23what does
00:30:24it do
00:30:25does it
00:30:26make you
00:30:27run
00:30:28well
00:30:29we
00:30:30stayed
00:30:31completely
00:30:32silent
00:30:33and
00:30:34about
00:30:35five seconds
00:30:36passed
00:30:37that
00:30:38nobody
00:30:39knew
00:30:40what had
00:30:41happened
00:30:42all
00:30:43had happened
00:30:44in front of
00:30:45us
00:30:46a person
00:30:47a great
00:30:48researcher
00:30:49José Requena
00:30:50was
00:30:51behind
00:30:52and he
00:30:53was completely
00:30:54standing
00:30:55because
00:30:56something
00:30:57happened
00:30:58and the one
00:30:59who saw
00:31:00it
00:31:01was
00:31:02leaning
00:31:03against
00:31:04the wall
00:31:05not that
00:31:06he fell
00:31:07like that
00:31:08but he
00:31:09ran
00:31:10scratching
00:31:11the floor
00:31:12and
00:31:13scratching
00:31:14the wall
00:31:15the board
00:31:16was
00:31:17physically
00:31:18impossible
00:31:19if someone
00:31:20does not
00:31:21push it
00:31:22the board
00:31:23was like this
00:31:24and it
00:31:25moved
00:31:26completely
00:31:27and then
00:31:28when it
00:31:29was
00:31:30moved
00:31:31it
00:31:32moved
00:31:33like that
00:31:34and
00:31:35we
00:31:36stood
00:31:37there
00:31:38and
00:31:39we
00:31:40felt
00:31:41like
00:31:42we
00:31:43were
00:31:44like
00:31:45we
00:31:46had
00:31:47been
00:31:48there
00:31:49for
00:31:50a long
00:31:51time
00:31:52so
00:31:53we
00:31:54were
00:31:55very
00:31:56excited
00:31:57to
00:31:58Well, this is a house near a road in the middle of a country.
00:32:03And, well, many times the workers who were on the way
00:32:08tended to sleep, to take a nap in some pines that were there,
00:32:12or even inside the house itself, on a sofa.
00:32:15And the house is uninhabited.
00:32:17Well, that's where the thing starts to arise,
00:32:19because many of these people say that when they opened their eyes
00:32:23they found someone staring at them.
00:32:28And from the board you say that even more things happened.
00:32:31Well, Pedro Landa with his palm, an invisible hand, and Sonora.
00:32:36Was it in that same house or another?
00:32:38No, this was in an abandoned monastery.
00:32:41They said, the law says...
00:32:43What do you expect, that places go on excursions?
00:32:47But, well, it's all the beauty that it has.
00:32:50A beautiful man.
00:32:52I'm being ironic, but I'm envious,
00:32:54because it's been a long time since I've done those things.
00:32:56The truth is that it's a healthy life.
00:32:58In this place there's a legend.
00:33:00It's a healthy life.
00:33:01In a healthy life.
00:33:02Ah, it's useful.
00:33:03The healthy life, the love of life.
00:33:07Well, in this monastery there's a legend
00:33:10that says that the spirit or the ghost of an abbot
00:33:14was protecting the monastery because he had buried
00:33:17the sappers of the ancient monks who were adorned,
00:33:21he had buried them.
00:33:23And, in fact, in the place you have to be careful
00:33:25because many treasure hunters,
00:33:27these people who go with their metal detectors,
00:33:29they try to look there.
00:33:31Because they say there are buried treasures.
00:33:33And there we went at night, with an immense cold.
00:33:37I've never been so cold.
00:33:39It was incredible.
00:33:40In fact, as we walked, we broke the frozen ice drops
00:33:43on the plants.
00:33:44It sounded...
00:33:45Incredible.
00:33:46The fact is that when we entered the monastery,
00:33:50abandoned, we were under a large chimney
00:33:53where possibly all the monks ate and so on.
00:33:57And we set up a small research team.
00:34:00Some cameras, some recorders, infrared detectors and so on.
00:34:04And we started the research.
00:34:06After something incredible happened,
00:34:09which I will tell in another program, perhaps.
00:34:11Why?
00:34:12Well, I'll tell you.
00:34:13Tell it briefly, son.
00:34:15We were recording and my wife...
00:34:19We always carry candles for the moon.
00:34:21And my wife took off a glove
00:34:23and went to light one, two, three and four candles
00:34:26that we placed in a place so that it was visible.
00:34:29The fact is that at one point I saw that it began to move,
00:34:33from one side to the other.
00:34:34There were two or three more researchers who were noticing
00:34:37and it made noise and I was recording.
00:34:40Well, the fact is that I was looking for the glove that had been lost.
00:34:43And at one point we were all looking at a central point
00:34:46and the glove...
00:34:47And this I can give faith and testimony
00:34:50because I also have it recorded in audio.
00:34:52The glove appeared in the air and fell to the ground,
00:34:56a meter and a half high.
00:34:58We were witnesses, three or four people who were there
00:35:01and we saw this with our own eyes.
00:35:03I know you think, well, Pedro will be crazy or go crazy.
00:35:06No.
00:35:07I tell what I have seen and I limit myself to saying that.
00:35:09Despite that, my opinion on the subject of the poltergeists,
00:35:13of this type of contribution...
00:35:14What surprises me is that you think...
00:35:17In the unconscious...
00:35:20Maybe a little... I don't want to get too far from the ground
00:35:24because I'm afraid I'm going to fly.
00:35:26We are all supermen or superwomen, potentially,
00:35:30that our mind is able to move a board,
00:35:34that it is able to make a glove or a piano levitate,
00:35:37which in this case is the same, it is exactly the same.
00:35:40But what about the palm of the submachine gun when...
00:35:42Well, here in this same place, after the issue of the glove,
00:35:45things started to get a little tense and serious,
00:35:49with very cold laughs and such.
00:35:52Did you hear the laughs?
00:35:53Yes, yes, but the laughs were ours.
00:35:55A little like that.
00:35:56After this, the batteries of the batteries,
00:35:59the recorders and others began to fall.
00:36:01That happens often too.
00:36:02And, well, we change everything, we put it on,
00:36:06and at one point I was with my pipe, quietly, I was dressed,
00:36:09and I am a nicotine and on top of the chimneys
00:36:12I like to look at the shelf to see if there is something.
00:36:15And I take a flashlight, I raise my hand,
00:36:17and the moment I raise my hand to look with the other hand at the pipe,
00:36:20they hit me with a palm in the hand.
00:36:23Incredible.
00:36:25That's because of the tick.
00:36:26That's because of the tick.
00:36:27The advantages of being recording,
00:36:30of trying to record psychophonies at all times,
00:36:33will allow us to hear that palm.
00:36:36Have you ever recorded the palm?
00:36:37You will hear the sound of a ghostly palm,
00:36:41because there was no physical hand there.
00:36:44However, it was physical because it produced the sound.
00:36:48Let's hear it.
00:37:01And what do you say afterwards?
00:37:03Well, I'd rather not say it because it's a little taco, right?
00:37:08The fact is that I was amazed.
00:37:10And all your colleagues and your wife saw that your hand was moving?
00:37:14I was like this, and bam!
00:37:16In fact, everything went down.
00:37:18Then they looked at me and said, what happened?
00:37:20Damn, they hit me with a palm in the hand.
00:37:23And you didn't run away from there?
00:37:25We didn't.
00:37:26At least you have a point of defense.
00:37:29I think that the other way around is that when you are in the act,
00:37:32and when you are there,
00:37:34you have more desire to stay and see what is happening.
00:37:37For example, I thought, like Pedro,
00:37:39that possibly the human mind was responsible for producing all kinds of phenomena.
00:37:44Until a couple of experiences that I had,
00:37:47I don't know, now I prefer not to think.
00:37:50As Pedro says, you have your feet on the ground,
00:37:52but from what I lived, especially what happened to me in the house of La Vuelta de San Vicente,
00:37:56the summer residence of Félix García Lorca,
00:37:58it was the first time I saw a poltergeist phenomenon,
00:38:00and that impressed me.
00:38:02It was by chance.
00:38:03One day I went to the park with the dog,
00:38:05I met a jury guard,
00:38:07and he told me that in the house I heard noise.
00:38:09I heard noise in the upper floor,
00:38:10as if someone was dragging furniture and someone was running up.
00:38:13And sometimes someone was running to the piano,
00:38:15if it was a couple of hits on the piano,
00:38:17and the guitar fell down.
00:38:18It was Paquita.
00:38:19And it wasn't Paquita, Paquita was in the conservatory.
00:38:21Paquita was teaching Pedro,
00:38:23which I will tell you later,
00:38:24a psychophony that I got the other day.
00:38:26Anyway, I stayed with this man to spend a night
00:38:30in the museum house.
00:38:32I went into the house,
00:38:34and let's say I was skeptical,
00:38:36because I had never seen a poltergeist phenomenon,
00:38:38and a man I knew,
00:38:39after talking to him for 15 minutes,
00:38:41I don't know if this guy was like the Manacas de Machín,
00:38:44or what is happening here.
00:38:46Anyway, I also went with another colleague,
00:38:48the three of us were there,
00:38:49we started walking around the house,
00:38:51and I had read in the parapsychology books
00:38:53that there were electromagnetic alterations
00:38:55where poltergeist phenomenons occur,
00:38:57and I happened to have a compass,
00:38:58a small compass.
00:39:00I started walking around the house,
00:39:02from one side to the other,
00:39:03and suddenly I had the compass in my hand,
00:39:05and I saw that he went crazy,
00:39:06that he started going around,
00:39:08with the guard next to him,
00:39:09with another colleague,
00:39:10and right in front of Federico's painting.
00:39:13I looked at the painting,
00:39:15and I said, well,
00:39:16he must be a little crazy,
00:39:17I'm nervous too,
00:39:18and we kept going around,
00:39:19and the same thing happened,
00:39:20right next to the piano,
00:39:21and on top of a table
00:39:22that was in the dining room.
00:39:24In those places,
00:39:25the compass pointed to the north,
00:39:26and it scared him again.
00:39:27No, no, no,
00:39:28it was spinning,
00:39:29it was spinning,
00:39:30it was going around,
00:39:31it wasn't pointing to the north,
00:39:32but it was going around,
00:39:33both in front of Federico's painting,
00:39:35and next to the piano,
00:39:37and on top of the table
00:39:38in the dining room of the house.
00:39:40That left me a little confused,
00:39:42I kept going around the house,
00:39:45and suddenly I heard a clack,
00:39:48and the priest said to me,
00:39:50the kitchen alarm,
00:39:53let's go down to the kitchen,
00:39:55and indeed,
00:39:56the window had opened,
00:39:58but there was one thing
00:39:59that shocked me a lot,
00:40:00and that is that the two doors,
00:40:01the one on the left
00:40:02was with the latches out,
00:40:04the one on the right
00:40:05had opened,
00:40:06but the lock was still on,
00:40:08as if someone had opened it
00:40:10and closed it again.
00:40:11I even took a photo
00:40:12that was published of that.
00:40:24Sometimes it is the practice
00:40:26of some kind of spiritism,
00:40:28often the Ouija,
00:40:30which seems to open a door
00:40:32to that unknown dimension
00:40:34from which that someone,
00:40:36or that something
00:40:37that we call poltergeist,
00:40:39penetrates this side of reality.
00:40:54That is what happened
00:40:55in a chalet
00:40:56on the outskirts of Albalate de Zorita,
00:40:58in the province of Guadalajara.
00:41:01The phenomena
00:41:02that still continue to occur
00:41:04are not excessively violent,
00:41:06and the Palles Sotomayor family
00:41:08lives with them
00:41:09without giving them
00:41:10too much importance,
00:41:12although,
00:41:13as we will see in the report,
00:41:15among those phenomena
00:41:17there is the presence
00:41:19of a pale specter of a woman.
00:41:21We were talking to Pilar Palles,
00:41:23one of the daughters.
00:41:25She and her sister Paz
00:41:27seem to be the ones
00:41:28who suffer the effects
00:41:30of the alleged poltergeist more directly.
00:41:34She is a woman
00:41:36who lives in a chalet
00:41:38in the province of Guadalajara.
00:41:41She is a woman
00:41:42who lives in a chalet
00:41:44in the province of Guadalajara.
00:41:47She is a woman
00:41:48who lives in a chalet
00:41:50in the province of Guadalajara.
00:41:53Yet,
00:41:54they try to get used to the phenomena
00:41:56at times overwhelming
00:41:58and make their life
00:41:59as if nothing were happening.
00:42:02It all began
00:42:03after they performed
00:42:04some spiritism sessions
00:42:06in the main hall of the house.
00:42:14I have a friend
00:42:15whom I have seen
00:42:17doing spiritism
00:42:18It's the demon, the demon inside that reacts like the demon.
00:42:22It tried to kill my brother and his friends.
00:42:25At dawn, too.
00:42:27He was sleeping and he heard the saw sharpening
00:42:32and he heard his sound, as if it were on.
00:42:37My sister came down, but I didn't get to touch her or anything.
00:42:41She must have stayed at the door and when she saw that it was off, well...
00:42:46It was a season when we came very little
00:42:48and you could see changes in his life,
00:42:51from consumption of light to the season we usually come.
00:42:56The bill was more expensive than when we came and we were here.
00:43:00My sister was reading a magazine,
00:43:02she was looking at a magazine and I was already sleeping.
00:43:05And a woman came out of the wardrobe,
00:43:09tall, blonde, with long hair and she was wearing white.
00:43:16It is in that room where, according to Pilar,
00:43:19was the original focus of the phenomena
00:43:22that would then spread to the rest of the house.
00:43:25Object movements, violent noises, shadows.
00:43:31Next to the table that served for those practices of Ouija,
00:43:34she told us what she and her family had been witnessing for several months.
00:43:39Here they do the Ouija, they have always done the Ouija.
00:43:42You can hear the doors moving upstairs,
00:43:45the doors and the lights,
00:43:48we have seen them on and off.
00:43:52You could hear chains dragging and a motorcycle.
00:43:56And that tape disappeared, you don't know where it is.
00:44:00Not far from the house are the remains of a village
00:44:03that was abandoned years ago,
00:44:05without the reasons being clear.
00:44:08The island, in a progressive deterioration,
00:44:11has been a stage for all kinds of practices,
00:44:14many of them also of spiritism.
00:44:17Now few dare to visit it.
00:44:20They assure that strange lights pass through it
00:44:23and that you feel the presence of something ominous.
00:44:26There are even witnesses who claim to have seen
00:44:29how some of the objects scattered there
00:44:32disappeared.
00:44:35Probably exaggerations,
00:44:38but there are those who relate these phenomena
00:44:41to those of the house of the Pallés Sotomayor.
00:44:44In any case, whether or not they originate
00:44:47in the ruinous walls of the abandoned chalet,
00:44:50in Villa Seisipico the events have not been limited
00:44:53to noises, footsteps or objects levitating.
00:44:56In the upper floor, where the sisters
00:44:59of the Pallés Sotomayor live,
00:45:02a ghostly figure of a woman
00:45:05came out of the closet,
00:45:08leaping over the bed of one of them.
00:45:14In this room, what my sister saw and heard
00:45:17was that she was lying here reading a magazine
00:45:20and what she saw was how the doors of the closet opened,
00:45:23how a woman came out of the closet doors
00:45:26and it was a woman who was lying there
00:45:29and she was tall, blonde, with long hair,
00:45:32she was wearing white,
00:45:35and she was approaching the bed
00:45:38and she was doing this with a kind of veil,
00:45:41and my mother reacted like this, covering herself.
00:45:49But it is not only the members of the family
00:45:52who are witnesses to these disturbing events.
00:45:55Occasional visitors who have stopped by the house
00:45:58have also seen ghostly silhouettes, lights.
00:46:01Esther López, a young neighbor
00:46:04who has witnessed some of the phenomena,
00:46:07is not willing to spend the night there again.
00:46:13Whispers, whispers, voices,
00:46:16there is everything in the story
00:46:19of those who visit the house.
00:46:22Despite everything, the family continues to occupy it,
00:46:25dreaming of continuing with their daily life,
00:46:28hoping that sooner or later
00:46:31that uncomfortable and invisible visitor
00:46:34will end up leaving.
00:46:38The story continues.
00:46:52Sometimes extraordinary events
00:46:55occur in isolation,
00:46:58on a single occasion,
00:47:01and its protagonist keeps it a secret,
00:47:04because he considers that it is something intimate
00:47:07that no one else cares about.
00:47:10This case is as concrete and brief in its exposition
00:47:13as it is dramatic and disconcerting.
00:47:16It can be included among Poltergeist phenomena
00:47:19because it is a contribution,
00:47:22of an object that incomprehensibly
00:47:25ceases to be where it should be
00:47:28to materialize elsewhere.
00:47:31The story continues.
00:47:40It should be in this niche of Arnel's cemetery,
00:47:43inside the coffin that contains
00:47:46the body of Mrs. Julia Hernández,
00:47:49who died on December 19, 1996,
00:47:52but it is not here.
00:47:55It is in the house of her daughter,
00:47:58Mrs. Julia Hernández.
00:48:01Well, my mother came in, she had a heart attack,
00:48:04they put her in the ICU,
00:48:07and we were going in to visit her.
00:48:10In fact, this rosary was given to me by a friend,
00:48:13a friend named Julia,
00:48:16very special to me.
00:48:19She came from Lourdes and told me
00:48:22that this was going to help my mother a lot.
00:48:25They didn't let me come in to put it on her,
00:48:28a nurse put it on her,
00:48:31then when I came in I showed my mother the rosary,
00:48:34that she touched it, put it in her hand,
00:48:37spoke to her, told her that this rosary was going to help her a lot.
00:48:40I spoke a lot to her,
00:48:43we told her things and at first she didn't tell us anything,
00:48:46but then she gave us a lot of clues,
00:48:49because we talked to her,
00:48:52and she also made gestures as if she were drinking coffee.
00:48:55She put herself in front of the doctors,
00:48:58and the doctors didn't give her any sign,
00:49:01that is, she rejected them, a little less than she rejected them.
00:49:04I told the doctor that I wanted to take my mother out of the ICU,
00:49:07they told me no, that my mother couldn't hear,
00:49:10that science hadn't advanced yet for my mother to hear us,
00:49:13and, well, to hear us and tell us that my mother
00:49:16hadn't had enough oxygen in her brain
00:49:19and that she couldn't hear us.
00:49:22What was our surprise?
00:49:25A doctor appeared and told us that he believed,
00:49:28but he didn't tell us for sure that he did.
00:49:31And I dare to tell you,
00:49:34because he gave us an opportunity,
00:49:37he took out a machine and saw that really,
00:49:40when we talked to her, she reacted with us,
00:49:43which she didn't do with them.
00:49:46We asked them to take her out of the room
00:49:49because they told us there was no remedy,
00:49:52and I never lost hope, but, well.
00:49:55They took her out, she was in the room for a month,
00:49:58and we were talking to her all day.
00:50:01We talked about everything, like in a normal life,
00:50:04we told her everything we did, what we did with her,
00:50:07we washed her, many times we gave her water,
00:50:10which the doctors told us not to,
00:50:13and we told her that if she was listening to us,
00:50:16bite her a little, and maybe she would bite me.
00:50:19And I told her, mom, don't hurt me.
00:50:22She picked me up and raised her mouth.
00:50:25And many times she laughed at me,
00:50:28she made gestures as if she was laughing.
00:50:31And in fact the nurses were crazy about us,
00:50:34because they also listened and said,
00:50:37we are happy to be with you,
00:50:40it was happening, she was in the room for a month,
00:50:43and then a day came,
00:50:46that I was not going to go that day,
00:50:49but I still went up, and just when my sisters came,
00:50:52I went down to have a coffee,
00:50:55and they came down to call me,
00:50:58and just when I went up, I was breathing.
00:51:01I asked my sister how it had been,
00:51:04because I had left her well,
00:51:07and my sister started to cry,
00:51:10and she told me, she just started to cry,
00:51:13and I started to name her the names,
00:51:16because here is Lali and all the brothers,
00:51:19and she started to open her eyes,
00:51:22and she started to look for all the children,
00:51:25which in three months she had not moved her head,
00:51:28she started to look for the children,
00:51:31and she started to cry, to cry like a strong child,
00:51:34and she could not stand one more day,
00:51:37that she was the saint of her grandson.
00:51:40I asked them to let me bring her home,
00:51:43they did not let me,
00:51:46I asked them to dress her in a white tunic,
00:51:49and on the day of the burial,
00:51:52just when we were in the cemetery,
00:51:55I asked my brother that he had promised me,
00:51:58that he would see my mother the last day,
00:52:01and we went to open it,
00:52:04and there was a nephew there,
00:52:07we were the children around the box,
00:52:10I went to catch myself,
00:52:13and I saw that my nephew told me,
00:52:16aunt, I'm going to throw this to my grandmother,
00:52:19and I told him, and I, this,
00:52:22they did not see what,
00:52:25and he told me later, my nephew,
00:52:28I'm going to throw this to my grandmother.
00:52:43That rosary was put in the box,
00:52:46that rosary was closed, and that rosary appeared.
00:52:49How did it appear?
00:52:52On the table in the room,
00:52:55under the table,
00:52:58it was between the clothes and the cards of the girls.
00:53:03Well, this is for me,
00:53:06that my mother gives me a clue that
00:53:09I have to have this rosary,
00:53:12because in her day she helped her a lot,
00:53:15and she gives it back to me,
00:53:18so that she can see that she is very well,
00:53:21and that now she will protect me.
00:53:25For some, the phenomena of Poltergeist
00:53:28are nothing more than a sample
00:53:31of the extraordinary capacities of our mind.
00:53:34For most, their origin is not in this world of the living,
00:53:37but in the other, in that of the dead.
00:53:40If so,
00:53:43each of us will be able to verify it at the time.
00:53:55Andrés' question
00:54:15Well, we had in the air
00:54:18Andrés' question.
00:54:21Yes, it is true.
00:54:24If all this happens,
00:54:27and many times in official institutions,
00:54:30people who give testimony,
00:54:33they are jury guards,
00:54:36people who are used to certain things,
00:54:39how is it possible,
00:54:42because I believe you as friends,
00:54:45but how is it possible that someone
00:54:48officially does not investigate,
00:54:51there is a very curious story,
00:54:54where there was a lady who caused five fires in two houses,
00:54:57where she was working,
00:55:00and although she was sentenced to two and a half years in prison,
00:55:03the judge did not fulfill the sentence,
00:55:06because the same sentence collected
00:55:09that the fires were caused in a paranormal way,
00:55:12and that although she unconsciously caused those fires,
00:55:15she was never in the mood to hurt.
00:55:19Indeed.
00:55:30Imagine, Andrés, that you are managing
00:55:33an institution, a center,
00:55:36a delegation of the Ministry of Industry,
00:55:39and strange phenomena begin to happen.
00:55:42What do you do?
00:55:45Of course, you are admitting
00:55:48that this is probably the best way to communicate,
00:55:51and that that institution, that official center,
00:55:54becomes, not in a kind of joke,
00:55:57but in something that is going to be speculated on,
00:56:00in which jokes are going to be made,
00:56:03because this type of phenomenon, as they are so disturbing,
00:56:06immediately provokes the joke and the laughter,
00:56:09which is a defense mechanism that we humans have.
00:56:12I would think about it.
00:56:15I would call a team to investigate, but...
00:56:18But it would be worth it, right?
00:56:21Until all the research is done,
00:56:24for example, I would not divulge it.
00:56:27I do not know.
00:56:30The attitude is, I think it is understandable
00:56:33that we are harmed, right?
00:56:36But in fact they are open,
00:56:39but they do leave...
00:56:42What would be the objectives of those jokers,
00:56:45or toys, as it is?
00:56:48The fact that a drawer comes out flying around,
00:56:51that an apple is pierced...
00:56:54Assuming that it is really about that,
00:56:57about jokers,
00:57:00I do not know the purpose, but they have too much bad milk.
00:57:03I do not know why,
00:57:06but I was researching last year,
00:57:09let's say I focused on the poltergeist phenomenon
00:57:12because of the sociological aspect that it can have.
00:57:15We are getting into the house of people,
00:57:18which is perhaps the most intimate aspect of one.
00:57:21And if aggression occurs there, it can be terrifying.
00:57:24And I remember two specific cases,
00:57:27not the grandfather Cebolleta, rather the grandson Cebolleta,
00:57:30but perhaps the best way to illustrate them are the cases.
00:57:33There was a family,
00:57:36they live with their daughter Ana López,
00:57:39she was 22 years old at that time,
00:57:42and the girl got up in the morning on a staircase
00:57:45that had about 30 cm high,
00:57:48very high, totally rigid on those stairs,
00:57:51and with her body full of blisters.
00:57:54I repeat, if it is the mind, we have a very bad enemy inside,
00:57:57because this type of aggression I think is quite hard.
00:58:00I was telling you that at the foot of the bed
00:58:03I saw a series of entities, of people,
00:58:06dressed in white, of different heights,
00:58:09ranging from 75 cm to 1.70 m,
00:58:12and they were approaching her, at the foot of the bed,
00:58:15we are talking about the alcove,
00:58:18and this girl, when she opened her eyes, saw it.
00:58:21But was she alone or were there other people?
00:58:24That's what I'm getting at, Fernando.
00:58:27There is a limit in which they cannot continue to live in that house,
00:58:30because they are really having a bad time.
00:58:33That house ends up becoming a meeting point for this girl and her friends,
00:58:36so that there is only a sofa, a armchair,
00:58:39in short, the typical thing to have a party.
00:58:42On one occasion, one of the friends was going with his girlfriend,
00:58:45this girl was also going with her boyfriend,
00:58:48at a certain moment, the friends knew absolutely nothing
00:58:51about what had happened in that house.
00:58:54It was a three-story building,
00:58:57the living room was on the second floor,
00:59:00and they began to perceive how, from the staircase that leads to that living room,
00:59:03which is right at the entrance to the street,
00:59:06they began to hear a sound, a sound like a body,
00:59:09they thought it could be robust,
00:59:12by the way it dragged against the wall, how it was rubbing.
00:59:15At that moment, the boy, who had no idea what had happened there,
00:59:18began to call his friend, Felix.
00:59:21Felix was on the top floor.
00:59:24Well, he thought it was a joke.
00:59:27Notice what happens when suddenly those steps cease,
00:59:30that is to say that whatever has arrived has reached the floor where they are,
00:59:33and right at the only exit door of that room
00:59:36appears a robust shadow of 1.80 meters,
00:59:39and what they identify in his hand with the light that enters from the street at 12.30 at night
00:59:42is a knife 30 centimeters long.
00:59:45I just want to tell you to get into the situation
00:59:48to see how that boy...
00:59:51Well, how did that happen?
00:59:54Well, that boy with his girlfriend began to scream,
00:59:57that shadow continued towards the upper room where he was.
01:00:00The knife was material?
01:00:03Yes, yes, yes, they perfectly identified the shine of the blade.
01:00:06Well, they ran down and just when they got down,
01:00:09the friends who were on the top floor came behind,
01:00:12what's going on, what's going on, have you seen? No, we haven't seen anything.
01:00:15He is at the door of the house,
01:00:18at that moment he says that he notices something very strong behind him,
01:00:21he pushes him in such a way that he is going to stop in the middle of the street.
01:00:24Imagine the surprise of the...
01:00:27Until the shot comes out alone.
01:00:30Almost as if it had come out avoiding.
01:00:33This type of aggression is frequent,
01:00:36as the one you received, as the one you comment,
01:00:39and many times there was a house, the house of Gavia, I don't know if you know it.
01:00:42It is the case of a painter,
01:00:45he had multiple fractures in that house,
01:00:48someone invisible, there was no one,
01:00:51the friends were downstairs,
01:00:54he pushed him, he fell down the stairs,
01:00:57it was a bit violent too.
01:01:00They stay in the house, they are not the characters that inhabit it,
01:01:03but the house itself that causes these phenomena.
01:01:06You don't change houses and in that new house nothing happens to you.
01:01:09Or yes.
01:01:12Leave me some way out.
01:01:15I don't think it is the product of the mind,
01:01:18I think that the product of the mind
01:01:21has a lot to do with it,
01:01:24practically a 90%,
01:01:27but a 10% for me is caused by that strange,
01:01:30that unknown, that energy that Fernando alluded to.
01:01:33A little nuance that I had forgotten in this case,
01:01:36in so many cases of Poltergeist there was an antecedent,
01:01:39in that case they had carried out spiritist practices of Ouija,
01:01:42the so-called game with which Fernando is never in agreement with me.
01:01:45We are with Ouija.
01:01:48Sometimes it is dangerous.
01:01:51I wanted to comment that from my experience,
01:01:54if you look at the books,
01:01:57the books of parapsychology,
01:02:00you see that in 80% of the cases the phenomenon obeys the spirit of the word,
01:02:03and they don't want to do anything,
01:02:06they don't show negative or aggressive reactions.
01:02:09But there is a small percentage where it does.
01:02:12When people call me, when I come into contact with a case,
01:02:15I always say that you don't have to be afraid,
01:02:18that almost nothing ever happens.
01:02:21And how does the family get along with Poltergeist?
01:02:24There is a kind of consensus at the end,
01:02:27you open the drawer, but I sleep, let me sleep all night.
01:02:30Can you establish that kind of dialogue?
01:02:33I have investigated cases where people were...
01:02:36In the case of the girl you told me about, it is scary,
01:02:39but there are cases in which you can...
01:02:42Look, I was studying a case where a lady,
01:02:45her son, according to her testimony,
01:02:48and her father, a very balanced person,
01:02:51had lowered him several times from the ceiling of the room.
01:02:54Personally, when I arrived,
01:02:57they called me on the phone,
01:03:00and he was already downstairs,
01:03:03and the boy was upstairs, and they had to lower him.
01:03:06I always put this in the context of the trial,
01:03:09I mean, I haven't seen it,
01:03:12but they have told me and I tell you.
01:03:15But what I did see was that when they called me,
01:03:18I was going up the stairs,
01:03:21and I heard knocks and noises everywhere.
01:03:24In the kitchen, all the doors were open,
01:03:27the dishes on the floor, and above all,
01:03:30it caught my attention that the woman was telling me
01:03:33that the dishwasher's bowl was squeezing against the floor
01:03:36and it came out, and everything was precisely there.
01:03:39So, this woman was crazy.
01:03:42Generally, according to what I have seen,
01:03:45people who have this kind of thing,
01:03:48what interests them is a solution,
01:03:52and they usually call you for that.
01:03:55They call you because they don't know what to do.
01:03:58Many times, before going to the investigator,
01:04:01they have gone to an exorcist,
01:04:04they have gone to the priest to bless the house
01:04:07and make prayers with holy water and all that.
01:04:10And well, they go to the city of these crazy guys
01:04:13who investigate these issues.
01:04:16Lorenzo and I were in one in Cordoba,
01:04:20we were there on some occasions.
01:04:23It seems that the phenomena have not disappeared,
01:04:26but they have reappeared.
01:04:29But how many times did a fire start
01:04:32because of spontaneous combustion of that house?
01:04:35Like five times. The firemen already knew each other.
01:04:38Yes, yes, but also, even the empty house was on fire
01:04:41to such an extent that on a floor of approximately 75 square meters,
01:04:44there were more than 125 kilos of paint left,
01:04:47it was tremendous.
01:04:50It seems ridiculous to me.
01:04:53I was studying a case of an office where the curtains burned by themselves
01:04:56and it turned out that they had a kind of gas underneath,
01:04:59an escape of gas, I think it's methane,
01:05:02and then when certain sparks were produced in a plug,
01:05:05the curtains burned. And this is a scientific application.
01:05:08If it is an isolated phenomenon, perhaps in this case
01:05:11that was the most striking.
01:05:14Another phenomenon that occurred was that all the little paintings
01:05:17and it was a house, in addition, of a family
01:05:20that liked to put marks and anything,
01:05:23a calendar sheet, whatever it was, that was beautiful,
01:05:26they marked it on the wall.
01:05:29They all appeared on several occasions vertically, these horizontal ones.
01:05:32Like this? Like this.
01:05:35Aggressions, but come on,
01:05:38to go out, paintings violently thrown
01:05:41against people and pass them.
01:05:44I remember the case many years ago of a hairdresser in Madrid,
01:05:47in the neighborhood of Aluche,
01:05:50I was, well, investigating,
01:05:53investigate what these gentlemen do.
01:05:56What Joaquín and I did was to be curious,
01:05:59and we spent a couple of nights there,
01:06:02and well, from the flowers that were spinning alone inside the flower bed
01:06:05to a pair of scissors thrown out
01:06:08on the wall a few centimeters from one of the clients.
01:06:11That is, deaths that I know of, there are none
01:06:14that have been produced by Poltergeist phenomena,
01:06:17but such unpleasant scares are not so exceptional.
01:06:20Do you think it is intended to say that they do not kill,
01:06:23but if they want to bother a lot or throw out the invaders
01:06:26of their territory?
01:06:29The case that impressed me the most, and I did not live it,
01:06:32were the witnesses, the case of deputation in Granada,
01:06:35where six people got into the building,
01:06:38two in the lower part, two in the basement,
01:06:41two on the first floor, two on the second floor.
01:06:44And it is curious, because only the two who were on the first floor had experience,
01:06:47those two gentlemen.
01:06:50One of them was a doctor, quite well known,
01:06:53I want to continue in anonymity,
01:06:56but what he told me left me speechless.
01:06:59It turns out that two people were going and one was carrying a Geiger counter,
01:07:02according to this man,
01:07:05the one who was in front with the Geiger,
01:07:08he shouts, he releases it and has in his hand
01:07:11the bite of a small child.
01:07:14And he introduces a man who is fed up with bites,
01:07:17who is fed up with surgeries,
01:07:20and then he says that he sees a mist,
01:07:23or later a mist, or even small lights that are moving
01:07:26inside the courtyard.
01:07:29And then he starts to inquire about the building,
01:07:32and there are even things related to deputation.
01:07:35For example, the man who sold the building to World War,
01:07:38that man committed suicide, that has never been published,
01:07:41that kind of very strange details.
01:07:44But the curious thing is that in the Middle Ages,
01:07:47when it was a convent, it turns out that people bought the building
01:07:50to make the great warehouse.
01:07:53When they threw the tabiques, they took fetuses in pairs.
01:07:56I mean, look at the relationship there is.
01:07:59It was not the mouth of a dog, of a cat,
01:08:02of a small child.
01:08:05There is no oral communication.
01:08:08Well, psychophony, yes, you told me.
01:08:11But they are related to what happens.
01:08:14For example, there you would hear the voice of that child.
01:08:17Sometimes they have been heard in places where things have happened.
01:08:20Some echoes, very strange.
01:08:23It was in the palm tree.
01:08:26I think you commented.
01:08:29We just needed the light to go out.
01:08:32No, that was in the board, and it went out.
01:08:35We had flashlights and immediately...
01:08:38As if something in those places...
01:08:41It has happened to us when we have filmed out there,
01:08:44in places that traditionally had a reputation.
01:08:47Not sinister, but had been centers of worship, of sacrifice.
01:08:50Pre-Columbians, it was very common
01:08:53within the Great Pyramid,
01:08:56as if you sucked the energy of the batteries
01:08:59and they last practically nothing.
01:09:02In the castle of Kukulkan, in Chichen Itza,
01:09:05this happened recently,
01:09:08and the watchmen could not communicate with the walkitalkis
01:09:11at a distance of 100 meters, in one point.
01:09:14We are talking about phenomena in which everything is mixed.
01:09:17The fundamental piece of analysis,
01:09:20of study, is the testimony of the people
01:09:23who play it.
01:09:26The problem is that they are not phenomena that can be taken to the laboratory.
01:09:29They are spontaneous, uncontrollable phenomena.
01:09:32Unless the researcher is there
01:09:35and has a video camera ready,
01:09:38and has a series of elements that can target the phenomenon,
01:09:41which is not frequent,
01:09:44they remain there, in doubt.
01:09:47It is always preferable to doubt to certainty,
01:09:50in this case, right, Andrés?
01:09:53Well, unless the researcher is there
01:09:56and sees that there is not a child biting your hand,
01:09:59because for a long time you have been ...
01:10:02I understand Pedro, and I think it is better to lean
01:10:05for the paranormal hypothesis than for the other,
01:10:08which would be to be a little less than inert
01:10:11in a world that we do not see, of creatures, of entities
01:10:14that get into ours and that not only make us jokes,
01:10:17but sometimes very bitter jokes.
01:10:20Well, let's leave the subject here,
01:10:23which is, as you have seen, very interesting.
01:10:26We will probably return to it in one way or another,
01:10:29and just wish you that nothing happens to you at home tonight
01:10:32and that everything remains calm.
01:10:35Until next time.
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