The eight year hiatus of The Empire of the Sun is officially over with the dawn of their new era, ‘Ask That God.’ The duo shares their reasoning behind dissolving the band then coming back, the intimate themes of ‘Ask That God,’ their thoughts on Mac Miller sampling their music for “The Spins,” working with PNAU and more!
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00:00So he's going to be on the next record.
00:01We're going to throw that out there, Billboard.
00:03Manifesting that here.
00:04Yep.
00:04It starts right here.
00:05OK.
00:05Paul McCartney listening.
00:07Got some songs for you.
00:09Hello, we're Empire of the Sun, and you're watching
00:11Billboard News.
00:11Very excited to have you here in the studio.
00:17Was it always inevitable that there would be a new Empire
00:19of the Sun album?
00:20It was a little bit touch and go there, I must admit.
00:23No, it was always inevitable.
00:24As to when, that's the question.
00:28OK.
00:29Empire will go on.
00:30It's not like those other empires
00:31before that have all folded.
00:34We will keep going.
00:35Sure.
00:35Why was this the right moment?
00:37We've been working together for 20 years, over 20 years.
00:40So I think we had to get to that point
00:41where we said, enough is enough.
00:43I've had it with you, Nick.
00:44I'll go my own way.
00:46You know, we had to turn all the computers off.
00:49We had to shut everything down.
00:51And even though the pandemic was horrible for the band,
00:55I think it was a bit of a blessing because we got
00:57away, you know, for 20 years.
00:59We built this castle.
01:00And it was time for us to abandon,
01:02kind of abandon the dream, and let it all
01:05get covered in reeds.
01:07To then come back again and realize
01:09what we loved about it so much in the first place, really.
01:12What did abandoning the dream look like?
01:14Was it a formal conversation?
01:15Or is it something that just kind of slowly dissolved?
01:17It's saying to the record company, it's over.
01:20Yeah.
01:21Really?
01:21I think it did sort of fade away for a moment.
01:25Like the whole world faded away in that time.
01:28And probably up until that time, we'd always,
01:31in one way or another, been chipping away at new material.
01:35So it was always top of mind or part of your consciousness.
01:40So to sort of do away with it was obviously very freeing.
01:43I think maybe we foretold this on Two Vines
01:46when we talked about the idea of the plants overtaking
01:50the cities.
01:51And then it sort of did happen to a certain extent
01:55with the whole COVID time.
01:58But I think what brings us back is
02:01like what Edgar Cayce said, who was the first clairvoyant
02:04in the States, right?
02:05That sound is the medicine of the future.
02:08And I think we're seeing that now.
02:10And I think that's what's always binded us together,
02:13is to make things that would live in your hearts.
02:15Was it a formal conversation of the coming back together?
02:18Or sort of what were the sparks of the, let's say,
02:21re-emergence and maybe cutting these vines down of the castle
02:24and putting this thing back together?
02:26I think it's little confirmations, right?
02:28Over time, like phone calls from people.
02:30And it was interesting, the pandemic,
02:32the amount of people that relied on the music.
02:35You know, there was a famous fashion designer friend
02:38who is a good friend of ours now who had cancer.
02:43And through his whole chemotherapy,
02:46all he listened to was Empire.
02:49And then he beat it, so he reached out and said,
02:51you're part of the healing, I'm forever in your debt.
02:55Things like that, when you start to get confirmations
02:59from different stories that how important the music is.
03:03And I think we'd work with other writers and people,
03:07and then it just, again, you start to realize
03:10what you love about, what's so special about the Empire.
03:14You know, and our chemistry, and then you come back
03:15and it's fresh again.
03:17When you came back, did it feel, as you're saying, fresh?
03:19Were there elements of it that felt new, reinvigorated,
03:24and maybe exciting to you in that way?
03:26Yeah, really exciting,
03:27because we've got a lot of respect for each other
03:29and we wanted to show we've got new tricks, you know?
03:31We've got something new to bring to the table, right?
03:33Right, and on that note, new friends.
03:36Luke traveled to Sweden
03:37and worked with some of the great songwriters from Sweden.
03:40Okay.
03:41Went to Paris and worked with some people.
03:43It was sort of a culmination of things,
03:44almost like the reflection of Empire
03:46through their eyes and their ears.
03:48It had been long enough, it had been established enough
03:50that we could invite outsiders in to participate
03:54in this very special and sort of sacred practice
03:58of writing this music.
03:59Was that new for you, of bringing people in?
04:00Yeah, it was the first time.
04:02Okay.
04:03It's always been a pretty close shop for Empire, so.
04:05There's been a couple of moments,
04:06obviously, like Lindsey Buckingham came in
04:10on the album prior to this,
04:12and he has a cut on this one as well.
04:13But yeah, other than that, for the most part,
04:15it has been quite a close shop.
04:17How long did it take to put this whole thing together?
04:19We started this album while we were shooting
04:22one of the videos for The Last Record,
04:23and we were in Tokyo shooting.
04:26You know, it's such a vibrant, different place.
04:28It just felt right that we would go into the studio
04:30for a few days while we were there,
04:31and yeah, that's where the journey began.
04:34And I'm sure we both went in there thinking
04:37that we would have an album by Christmas.
04:39But these albums are not,
04:42although we're very much part of the creation of it,
04:44I think that there is a sort of timeline
04:46that is, you know, possibly divine.
04:50Sure.
04:50That maybe we're not in control of so much.
04:52Well, that reminds me, of course,
04:55of the album title, Ask the God.
04:57Broke that down for me.
04:58We wanted to be inclusive.
05:00We're very inclusive in Empire of the Sun.
05:02We love all of you, and we respect all of you.
05:05And we thought, ask that God,
05:06because everyone has their own personal Jesus,
05:08or Allah, or Buddha, or whatever it may be for that person.
05:13And I think music can be that for you, too.
05:16And it's certainly been that for us.
05:18And that is often the intention when we're creating music,
05:22is to create something that can be a beacon of hope,
05:25that can be a signal of light and levity, you know?
05:29These songs are obviously classically Empire,
05:32and very, very catchy, and beautifully produced.
05:35And they're also very deep lyrically.
05:36It's bigger, the brighter,
05:38when I cry, everything's lighter.
05:42What were the primary themes that you were exploring
05:45through this collection of songs?
05:46I think we're often talking about quite intimate things,
05:51just having a sad moment, or feeling lost,
05:56and wanting to run away from your problems,
05:58or needing to find someone that you can hold or hug.
06:04Music can be that warm hug for you, too.
06:07I think we've always connected on that,
06:09that the warmth of music is sort of so integral to music.
06:14I wanted to talk about the visual element,
06:16because I understand that the videos were shot,
06:18is it correct, entirely in Thailand?
06:20Yeah.
06:21Okay, take me through that, how you got there,
06:23why you decided to do it there.
06:25We spent about a year and a half meeting with,
06:28it was probably a year, but a year and a half sounds better,
06:32meeting with directors, and all this stuff was just,
06:36it all just felt so weird, you know?
06:37It didn't really match what we wanted,
06:39and the label's going, just do a visualiser,
06:41and I was like, I'm not doing a damn visualiser, you know?
06:44So we kept just meeting and meeting people
06:46until we got introduced to a Canadian director
06:48called Michael Maxis, and we had this call,
06:51and instantly he was talking about Zemeckis and Spielberg,
06:54and all these great filmmakers,
06:57and straight away we were like, this is the guy.
07:01We sent him the record, and just said,
07:03go for it, a treatment or a video,
07:05and he came back with five treatments
07:07or five songs, and just blew us away,
07:11and said, let's make a movie.
07:13Just fell into this crazy adventure
07:17that we've always talked about, like the first album.
07:19It was a dream, I mean, it was a fever dream.
07:22Some days there's over 100 people on set,
07:24and it was about 100 degrees most days.
07:27So much so that everyone carries
07:30these sort of smelling salt things with them,
07:32and the crew, I was always watching them,
07:35they're almost passing out,
07:36but they're sniffing this stuff,
07:37it's like a herbal thing.
07:39Apparently it's just what you do in Thailand,
07:41so you don't pass out from the hate,
07:42which is just, it's quite oppressive.
07:44Did you get herbal packs of your own to stay conscious?
07:47Yeah, yeah, yeah, love them.
07:49Can you kind of tell me the visual identity
07:51of the album, and how it deepens
07:54the Empire of the Sun mythology?
07:56Well, I think we've always been about story,
07:59and this film saw the story expand to a new dimension.
08:03We brought in Luke's son into the films,
08:07who proved to be, actually, quite a natural actor.
08:10She wasn't sure how that was gonna go,
08:13but I think that we've always been about
08:15something a little larger than the other bands.
08:18I mean, that was part of the reason
08:19we started in the first place.
08:21We've looked at the landscape,
08:22and for the most part, we saw shoegazing,
08:24and we wanted to see Bowie.
08:26We wanted to see him with much larger, flamboyant,
08:30that felt true to music, to do something bigger.
08:33I was thinking that on the drive here,
08:34would there be an Empire of the Sun without David Bowie?
08:38Yeah, would probably.
08:40Well, there'd be another David Bowie, then.
08:42There'd be a David Shoey, wouldn't there?
08:44You know?
08:45Yeah, now we draw from, you know,
08:47people always say, where do you get your inspiration?
08:49And it's just kind of from everything, you know?
08:52So, you don't know what touches you.
08:54That's why Jeff Koons, the artist,
08:56like he talks about how it feels to your heart, you know?
09:02Some people stand in front of a Picasso,
09:05and they'll have no emotion,
09:07or someone else will go, oh my God, it's a Picasso.
09:11The things we draw from are kind of our things,
09:15you know, which makes our band special.
09:18What other primary things,
09:20or what other things have you drawn from primarily?
09:23I mean, on this record, we definitely started in Japan,
09:26and I think there was an explosion for us
09:28of Japanese culture.
09:29Luke is always, he's like a Bowerbird,
09:31he's always finding things from all over the planet,
09:33and different ideas, and different threads of things,
09:37from books and films and music.
09:39I don't think we ever limited ourselves in that regard.
09:41What you're saying about peers,
09:43or maybe lack of peers, is interesting.
09:45You said in the beginning you didn't necessarily see
09:48anybody in the landscape that you felt connected to,
09:51or is that, am I interpreting that accurately?
09:53I mean, there's lots of music that we loved,
09:54but I just felt that there was something missing,
09:57and we stepped up.
09:58What do you think you added to the landscape?
09:59Empire of the Sun.
10:01And with that?
10:02And with that, I think we've made a billion friends,
10:06and it's been an unbelievable journey of joy and elation.
10:11In many ways, we are sort of servants to the audience,
10:13and I think that's what we're meant to be.
10:16I understand that stuff from the earlier days
10:19has really found new audiences,
10:21and that the numbers seem to be really impressive,
10:24and just reaching a lot of people
10:26that maybe weren't there for the first time around,
10:28or when this stuff originally came out.
10:30What does it mean to you to be resonating
10:33with younger people,
10:34and people that didn't catch it the first time?
10:36It feels pretty good to be relevant, you know,
10:38because it's better than not being relevant.
10:41It's true, and it's not something you can control either.
10:45It's definitely a privilege to win a new audience over,
10:50but the music speaks for itself.
10:51Like, we can't control that.
10:53I think that's the beauty of it,
10:54that kids went out of their way to sample this thing,
10:59and make this new version that blew up in Germany,
11:01and sort of created this whole other experience,
11:05and then plus the Mac Miller one is just going bananas.
11:08Right.
11:09And it was just one of those magical things
11:13that came through.
11:14It must be fascinating to watch something
11:16that you've created take on a life of its own.
11:18Yeah, I feel that we both always felt that of music,
11:22that when you write something,
11:23it's like writing a letter,
11:25or a message in a bottle, or something.
11:26I mean, they just go out there, don't they?
11:29Once you project something,
11:30in singing, you're projecting.
11:33What does success for this album look like for you?
11:36I guess just moving people, right?
11:40You can't tell how people are gonna feel.
11:43I guess that's what's so fascinating.
11:45They're like little angels that you're dressing up in,
11:48little emperor clothes,
11:49and then you just send them out.
11:51But that's what's so beautiful about music.
11:54The songs, pack their bags,
11:56and then you let them go,
11:58and you just don't know what's gonna happen.
12:02Years ago, we ended up doing a show in Lithuania,
12:04and it was 15,000 people singing every word,
12:08and it was like, wow.
12:11It made it all the way to Lithuania.
12:13It's amazing.
12:14Yeah, we just are duty-less here
12:16to just honor the song,
12:18and make it the best it can be.
12:20It's up to you guys to love it.
12:22It sounds like everyone's fulfilling their task on that album,
12:26but obviously there's more opportunity to do so
12:28when these songs are performed live.
12:30I'm curious about what these songs look like
12:33in terms of live production and what the show will be,
12:36because your shows have always been kind of fantastic.
12:38I'll tell you about it in about six months, maybe.
12:40We'll do another eight.
12:41Is it a work in progress?
12:42Yeah, well, now, you know,
12:44we take quite a while building the show,
12:46building the set and the whole story
12:48and narrative of the show.
12:50When I'm going to go down in the crowd and say,
12:52you sing this bit and all that kind of stuff.
12:54So we'll come back on air and we'll do another thing
12:56and you can tell me what you think about it.
12:58Okay, that sounds perfect.
12:59We're doing the Hollywood Bowl down the road.
13:01I know, it's a huge show.
13:02We'll get the billboard team a box there
13:04and we'll have a great night.
13:06That sounds good to me.
13:07But it's exciting, you know,
13:08we've sort of had the pandemic
13:09and we did some shows after that,
13:11but this is going to be good to get back for a proper tour.
13:14How much rehearsal,
13:15especially knowing that you haven't been on the road for a while,
13:18how much rehearsal and practice goes into performing,
13:21doing a show like the Hollywood Bowl?
13:23Quite a bit.
13:24And as well as the bowl show,
13:26we're actually playing with Paul McCartney in Mexico.
13:28Wow.
13:29So a lot of rehearsing.
13:30So he listened to your album.
13:32More rehearsing.
13:33Yes, more than normal.
13:34Actually, no more interviews in six months
13:36because we're going to be rehearsing.
13:37Well, we're honored to have you here.
13:39Yeah, thank you.
13:40Yes.
13:41So AEI OU.
13:49The first song that's a collaboration
13:52between Empire of the Sun and Peniel,
13:54which is, of course, your longstanding act.
13:56Both of these projects have been around for a long time.
13:59Why is this the right time to join forces?
14:02Peniel was always a fledgling act
14:04until it had this behemoth record called Cold Heart.
14:14And then I felt like,
14:15oh, well now Empire and Peniel feel like they could collaborate
14:20and it would make sense.
14:21It wouldn't just be like big brother going,
14:23come on little brother, I'll give you a go.
14:26So that's kind of how it felt.
14:28Okay.
14:29And the song just felt like something
14:32that would be right for that.
14:34Peniel's just such a hot electronic act
14:37and they do something with the kick and the bass,
14:40which I don't know what it is you guys do that does.
14:42Because Empire, we have our thing,
14:44you guys have this thing that just...
14:46Yeah, but I loved that track straight away
14:48because after I heard that song,
14:50A, B, C, D, E, F, U, you know,
14:53then I thought, a vowel song.
14:55And we've always talked about a vowel song.
14:57So bringing that in was just a stroke of genius.
15:00I wanted to talk about music on the radio too
15:02and just how literal these lyrics are.
15:06I like the music on the radio
15:10It opens my soul
15:12And the record company took that seriously.
15:14They were saying, it can't be second single
15:16because we're going to offend the radio.
15:18Is that a world we want to live in, Katie?
15:20Really?
15:22So not literal?
15:24Yeah, no.
15:25It's a record for the underground
15:27and I think it's pretty sane
15:29compared to some of the things out there on the radio, right?
15:32Yeah, yeah.
15:33I mean, it really was.
15:34I was trying to talk about all the bands
15:36that don't get played on the radio
15:38whilst being played on the radio.
15:40In terms of the length of this project,
15:4220 years is a long time,
15:44how are you both different
15:46and what are you both bringing to the table now
15:48that you weren't when the project started?
15:50I'm listening more, for sure.
15:52Trying to listen more.
15:54I think that's my main role.
15:56And I think at the start,
15:58I didn't really realise that I was working
16:00with the voice of a generation.
16:03And over the course of the time,
16:05that's obviously proven to be so.
16:07But I think art movements,
16:09if you think of Surrealism or Dada,
16:11they didn't name those until after the movement had finished.
16:14And I think this band has been around long enough
16:17that I've come to be more humble
16:19and realise what a privilege it is
16:21and how special it is.
16:22You feel like you're part of a movement.
16:24Yeah, I mean, I think it's a real privilege
16:27to be a part of this.
16:29It's very special.
16:31Do you feel like the voice of a generation?
16:33Yeah, yeah.
16:36Thanks, man.
16:38That's really sweet.
16:40Where's my Pepsi right there?
16:42Yeah, no, what Nick said,
16:44I think we've realised
16:46how much love we have for this project
16:48and respect for each other
16:50and how special and unique this chemistry is.
16:52I love this band so much.
16:54We come in the room,
16:56we talk about our families for a second,
16:58but then we know what the mission is
17:00and what the job's at hand.
17:02And I love that and I love how hungry it still is.
17:06This guy, you know,
17:08best producer in the world
17:10who works endlessly.
17:12The other day you were in New York,
17:14uptown recording a Brazilian guitarist.
17:16The next day he's in with a six-piece choir.
17:18Two days later he's in Los Angeles,
17:21down in what, Burbank,
17:22in some guy's house with old 70s keyboards.
17:25In the basement of someone's house.
17:27He has all this crazy stuff.
17:29You've got to go to some of those places
17:31to find those sounds.
17:33There's some interesting characters along the way.
17:35But I think we're still seeking,
17:37we're still searching.
17:39And I don't see that resting anytime soon.
17:42Do you know exactly what you're searching for?
17:44I'm going to say enlightenment, really.
17:46I think that's what we should all be searching for.
17:48I do think that music could bring us there.
17:51I do think that Edgar Cayce was right.
17:53I think sound is the medicine of the future.
17:56Considering that the search for enlightenment
17:58is just a lifelong project,
17:59is it fair to say that this project will continue
18:01in perpetuity?
18:02Yeah, well now the kids are involved,
18:04so it doesn't really end, does it?
18:06It's going to just keep going.
18:08It's such a beautiful thing.
18:10There doesn't seem to be any need for it to end.
18:12Sure.
18:13There are enough things in this life that end
18:15that shouldn't have.
18:16And enough things that keep going that should end.
18:20So let's keep some of the good ones going.
18:22Sure.
18:23This album landing at this particular moment in time,
18:25do you feel like it has,
18:27does society need this medicine in this particular moment?
18:29And is that why you're releasing it now?
18:31I think so.
18:32We always talk about timing, God's timing.
18:35There were so many years where we wanted it to happen
18:39and we just kept trying to make it happen.
18:42But when the spirit's not there,
18:44it just sounds like invisible music.
18:46You play it on the speaker and people just sit there
18:49and they go,
18:50when are you going to start playing the song?
18:51And you're like, it's playing now.
18:53It just sounds like nothing.
18:56It has to be God-given and have spirit to it.
18:59The record company hates us because it's like
19:01another year rolls by and another year
19:04and we're just sort of like,
19:06but that's when things are eternal and endless
19:11and that's when your great body of work,
19:13when it happens at the right time and you wait for that
19:15and you have the fortune favours the brave
19:18when you can say to the massive record company,
19:21hold the line, just wait for us.
19:24And they did, they were very patient.
19:26It does, everything feels like the right time.
19:29There's a tremendous amount of joy and brightness
19:33and depth and intelligence and fun
19:36and intimacy in this album.
19:38That's what I hear and it feels really good.
19:40It's really a beautiful album.
19:41Awesome, thank you.
19:42That's very kind.
19:43Is there anything else you'd like to say about it?
19:45I just want to say thank you, Billboard.
19:47See you in six months for a follow-up, right?
19:49Yeah, thank you so much.
19:50At the Hollywood Bowl.
19:52Thank you both gentlemen.
19:53All right, thank you.
19:54Yes, pleasure.