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00:00learning. And how do we learn, even for the sportsmen through the sports hub that you do,
00:06that we build out there, how do they learn to be great sportsmen? We've got great examples of
00:10people who are succeeding in sports. And it's a privilege for DBS to be involved with our Olympians,
00:17starting with actually Joseph, we did sponsor him, and then with Pinxiu, and then now with Max. So
00:22hopefully that track record of supporting them in the gold medal would be something that we'll
00:28be very proud of. I am going to take the opportunity to ask something more personal
00:34before we get into the questions. And I think one of the things that I'll start by, you know,
00:39the theme of collaboration. So you talked a lot about collaboration at the country level,
00:44and what we do as programs. But as an individual, what advice can you give to
00:49our colleagues in the room? You know, they're all saying, how do you translate this whole idea of
00:55bringing people together to collaborate more effectively at a personal level?
01:01What is your advice? Well, I would say, at a personal level,
01:07never be afraid to do something different. Push yourself, push the envelope, and push yourself
01:14with that envelope beyond the boundaries. And today, when we look at how we build an inclusive
01:22society through SG Cares, I'll give you one example. We have, at SG Cares over the last two
01:28years, signed, never before have we done so many MOUs, but we've signed an MOU with people like
01:33the Medical Association, the Institute of Architects, the professional engineers,
01:39even the lawyers, you know, the law society. And we do that because we believe that rather than
01:47just to give in financial resources, it's best to give time of yourself. So we work with the
01:54architects, with the smaller charities. You might say, what are we doing with architects? Why does
02:00a small charity need an architect? But you'd be surprised, because if they have small premises,
02:05they want to build a short extension, it needs a sign-off from a professional person,
02:10that can cost them tens of thousands of dollars. And a small charity doesn't have that.
02:14But to an architect, it's straightforward. It's what he or she does day in, day out. So
02:20that skill set, coming forward, playing your role, doing something that you have an expertise in,
02:26but benefiting charities and society is, to me, the way to go. And as I said, you know,
02:32all of the efforts that you have spent, and I have, we studied the SIP very closely when
02:38we held our NIC meetings, National Integration Council. And we were very impressed with a couple
02:46of the programs. You know, you go down to things like, you know, an employee would partner with
02:52a new employee from overseas. And just now we were chatting and say, you know, what do you do?
02:58And they say, we go for coffee. We teach them how to order coffee, Singapore style.
03:03You know, you must, and that's important because that is one way of fitting in and blending in.
03:08And so go out of what your normal spheres of influence, go beyond what the people you normally
03:16socialize with, and go beyond activities that you're used to doing on a day-to-day basis,
03:22and bring people on board with you. Not be afraid to work with others. Be bold enough to decide,
03:28sometimes it's okay to try something which I might not like, or I might fail in doing,
03:33but push that envelope. That's perhaps the best advice I can give.
03:38Oh, fantastic, fantastic. I think that actually leads on to the next question quite nicely.
03:42When you talk about, let's not be afraid to try, you know, and build some resiliency behind that.
03:48And the question here is really about, as we know, as you know, this week's Future Forward
03:55is about helping our people to learn how to build both career and personal resilience.
04:01So what specific strategies or habits that you developed to build and maintain that resilience?
04:07Share with us some example that you had in your career where your resilience was tested
04:13and how you overcame it. It's a bit personal, but I thought your sharing has been fabulous,
04:18and we will really learn a lot from this. So I graduated from law school in 94,
04:26and I was, I then got qualified in 95. And the first three or four years of my legal career,
04:35I'm not sure I, you know, I think I forgot how my parents looked like.
04:40I was working a lot, you know, it was hours for long, it was tough, it was challenging. And
04:47actually three years into my career, I decided that I should take a break. I'm going to leave
04:51because it was just too intense. And then I spoke to my boss about it, and he says,
04:58know what, leave, are you crazy? What are you going to do? So I said, not sure, maybe go and
05:03do a master's, take some time off. But he says, look, you know, nothing that you want to achieve
05:09ever comes easy. You know, it's, there's a lot of work goes into it, especially when you're at
05:14the learning phase. And it's, you've got, you know, you've got to start from ground zero,
05:20you've got to learn things the hard way. You've got to come up against people who,
05:24you know, will have you for lunch in court a few times, you'll get it, you know, the judges will
05:30be tough on you, you know, when you're really learning the ropes and finding your feet,
05:33it's going to be tough. And, but you need to persevere. There needs to be a resiliency about
05:39it, you need to overcome it. And you need to tell yourself that if you want to succeed at doing
05:45something, the first initial phases would never be easy in whatever you do. So even if you left
05:51today, which he says you're welcome to do, that spooked me a bit too. He says, wherever you end
05:59up, you will, it will be the same journey again, because if you want to succeed in whatever you
06:03want to do, that starting point from ground zero will have to be reenacted and you've got to start
06:09all over again. So you might as well stay on, carry through and see through. So I thought about
06:15it. I decided to, well, instead of leaving to do my master's, I left on a holiday, a week and a
06:22half was all he could give me. And I thought about it and I said, I think there is a lot of meaning
06:29in really wanting to work hard at something because today, especially today, you know,
06:35attention spans are shorter. The desire from, you know, to get to fruition is much, the patience
06:42is much shorter and the path is supposed to be much shorter. But I think there's really no substitute
06:47for that experience. One of the E's that you have, I think three E's, right? Exposure, experience
06:54and what's the last one? Education. And I think I was told that experience is the hardest. And I
07:00think it's true. Experience is the hardest because it's a lived experience. It's what
07:06you need to go through. You can't read from it. You can't shortcut it. You've got to live it.
07:11And so I would say in answer to Guizhan's question, the one lesson that I picked up was,
07:19you know, there's no free lunch and there's no shortcut, even today. And much as we have
07:27progressed with technology and AI and so on, I think the path to building a career, the path to
07:34building success in the role that you play, whatever you do, is going to be peppered, especially the
07:39early years, with a lot of hard work, a lot of tough experiences, a lot of failures. But if you
07:47overcome this, you'll be much stronger than if you didn't have it. Much more resilient, much wiser.
07:54And, you know, the old sort of somewhat cliche saying, right, that failure is the start of
07:58success. I think it's really true. In my case, I didn't have an easy time in the early part of the
08:05career, but those foundational steps were really crucial in my later years. And I look back
08:11at those experiences, I think I was much stronger, a lot more thick-skinned when I went to court,
08:18you know, getting questions from the judges, faced with difficult opponents, all of that
08:26you need to build up over a period of time. And I think it is the same today. And one sort of
08:33advice for the younger generation is there really isn't a shortcut that you can, you know, apply by
08:39tapping on a button that gives you the AI solution. You might have the answer, but sometimes in
08:45learning, especially in building a career, the process is as important as getting the answer,
08:50because the process is what builds you, strengthens you, gives you that fiber.
08:55And if you can find the answer without going through the process, you lose something. And
09:01it also then teaches you a slightly wrong lesson, which is then you can get a shortcut to something,
09:06which is not always true. So I think for those of you who resonate with what I say and are going
09:12through it, bear with it, because I think it will make you much stronger at the end of the time.
09:18Well said, well said. I hope my, I wish my son was in the crowd. Reason is because he's now one year
09:24after he's starting in a law firm, and he exactly has the same feeling that he had three years down
09:30the road. So he doesn't recognize you now? He does when we go on holiday, just went one recently,
09:35but after that he doesn't. And he does come back once in a while and say, I think I want to quit.
09:41So I said, when I hear that, I'm going to say, try talking to Min Tong if I can get his time,
09:45and he can tell you the experience that he went through. And every single lawyer would probably
09:49tell you that at some point in time, they just want to quit. And then that's a wonderful story.
09:54And it just reminds me of the saying that says, whatever that doesn't break you,
09:58makes you stronger. And that's certainly something that you've gone through. And so,
10:03you know, you have done actually miraculously from that three years later on to where you are,
10:10you went on to become a senior counsel, and then you went on to do different ministries.
10:14So you've actually done quite a lot of multiple career transition.
10:20Again, same question around, you know, when you look at the different transition that you've done,
10:26and clearly in the role that you played in the government, it's quite different
10:30from what you were trained to be as a lawyer and what you went through as a litigator.
10:35What were some of the strategies that you employed or some of the things that you did
10:39to help you transition, you know, from one role to another? What were the things that
10:43you do? And what advice would you give for people when they are really moving from one
10:48to another? As you know, part of what we have exposure is to do different jobs within the bank,
10:53right? And people do move quite a lot. We like to tell people that you can be a job hopper within
10:58the bank, but don't hop outside. Just stay within the bank, but do different jobs.
11:02Well, the different roles I had to play, especially in government, is under the,
11:07you know, there was no choice. So, you know, my, yeah, you don't get a choice, right? So let's say
11:17you take 2020, right? So the GE was over. And so Prime Minister is deciding on his new cabinet.
11:26So he calls us all one by one. So my turn, so I walk into his room
11:31and he says, okay, this is what you're doing.
11:40I think a lot of people in the bank says it's quite a common experience here too.
11:47Yeah. So we're not very different. I told you the government is not very different from all
11:50of you guys, right? So here I am. So I said, okay, you know, MCCY, you know, I did sort of
12:00know what MCCY does. So I was quite excited because, you know, those of you who know me well
12:04will know that I'm very much invested in sports. I feel that sports really gives you something that
12:09you can never ever pick up anywhere else in classrooms, in any formal setting, the whole
12:14experience of doing something in sports just completely unique. And I also felt that, you know,
12:20the arts can play a bigger role than what it had been. So I was excited to be in this. Law,
12:27my other role was something that was a constant. I've always been in the law ministry. But then as
12:33I was getting up to reach for the door, he then says, oh, one more thing. And I paused for a while
12:41and I was a bit worried. I don't know whether this happens at DPS.
12:45And then he says, I also want you to hit the Chinese community liaison group.
12:50And so I paused for a while because again, those of you who know me well
12:53will know that my Chinese is, you know, as good as say my Italian,
13:01which is non-existent. And I thought he made a mistake, but of course, you know,
13:09he doesn't make a mistake, right? So I paused and I turned around and for like five seconds,
13:14I was processing in my mind whether I should fess up and say that, you know, I can't do Chinese
13:20community or should I just take it on board? And then I said, you know, like a good boy, I said,
13:28of course. Yeah. So going back to the earlier point about trying something different, I mean,
13:46this time round, of course, I'm trying something different, but it was
13:48tried for me rather than myself volunteering. But in the end, you know, I enjoyed the experience.
13:55It was for the initial period, it was a bit fish out of water. And I think everybody raised an
14:00eyebrow as to what's this fellow who is well known for not doing so well in Chinese, not doing in
14:07this. But I must say that, you know, it allowed me to learn a lot more about the Chinese culture,
14:13the language, the meaning behind why we do certain things and to associate and to relate with
14:19a sector in society that I really would not have seen had it not been for this role. So
14:24the Chinese literary groups, I mean, I can barely speak Chinese, let alone, you know, read Chinese
14:29poetry or history and literature, but I got in touch with them and I can see and appreciated
14:34very much what they did and why they did it. And also in the clans, the different clan
14:40associations. And I feel Singapore is so much more enriched because of the different clans.
14:46Each of them, you know, come from a different part of southern China, whether it's Guangdong,
14:52or Chaozhou, and so on. And now, you know, they bring that special culture into Singapore.
14:57So all of this was something that was completely new to me. So trying something different, as I
15:03said, you know, somewhat falls upon me, but I enjoyed the experience a lot. And so as I made
15:08these transitions, I mean, going back to Kwee John's question, I think the key really is to
15:12have an open mind about where you're headed and what you're doing. You know, Kwee John said,
15:20you know, try something different as long as it's within DBS. Okay, I think that's good.
15:24I think today one value that's really underrated is loyalty, both employer to employee and the
15:31other way around, employee to employer too. Because you want a good career, you want a good
15:35career path, you want a good pay, you want a good system, you want to find fulfillment in your job,
15:42all that I think the employer has to give. But the employee also has to reciprocate.
15:48And I think there is, of course, I spent 25 years with one employer and I never knew
15:53another law firm, I never knew another employer. And that was my experience. And I found that,
15:58look, after a while, there isn't much to choose. If you are in a good place,
16:02don't hanker for the last 5% or for something that might promise you, you know, an easier life.
16:09If you find fulfillment there, keep to it. And I think that loyalty works both ways.
16:15So be open, be prepared to do something completely different, which was my experience.
16:22And be open to suggestions as to how to move different trajectories in the same industry.
16:32There are so many different things that can be done. And I think in today's world,
16:35there isn't a fixed criteria for what a job path looks like. Maybe in my days and in my
16:41parents' generation, it was very clear. You had to do something. My mother, by the way,
16:46was a career teacher. From the time she came out of school till the time she retired,
16:50she was always a teacher in MOE. So it was very fixed and very one-dimensional.
16:57But I think today it's very different. Within the same sector, within the same employer,
17:01you can find different peaks of success and different aspirational paths.
17:06Thank you, Minister. I think a lot of the sharing you gave us so far kind of matches
17:12the current campaign that we have, we call Trust Your Spark. And there are many things that you do
17:18so far in your responses come from an inner belief in your values, in your own abilities,
17:27and that openness to try. And I think that's something that we can learn a lot from.
17:31I'm going to shift to something quite fun, because you've been quite known for bringing
17:35Taylor Swift. And there is some question around that asks, not posted here, but this is actually
17:41appointed to Derek. He's dying to know, how did you bring in Taylor Swift? So is there a story
17:47behind that? And it's a bit fun. And then there's a 31 votes by Zach. Thank you, Zach, for putting
17:52your name. In fact, I want to thank everybody who gave their names on the pigeonhole. We got names
17:57on pigeonhole, it's not anonymous. So Zach, thank you for the question, which asks, Minister,
18:01what is your favourite Taylor Swift song, and who's the next big act? So who are you selling to
18:06next? So tell us about how you bring Taylor Swift, what's your best song from Taylor Swift,
18:10you're a fan of it, and then, you know, next big act. Well, Taylor Swift is obviously the number
18:16one performer in the world, right? But go back a couple of years, when we decided to buy back the
18:23sports hub, we wanted the place to really be open to Singaporeans. That was the number one agenda.
18:28So today, you have national school games there. All our kids play their school finals as far as
18:34we can accommodate at the sports hub. And I've gone to a few of these, and you can see on their
18:40face, they can hardly believe it. Rugby finals for schools happens the day after the HSBC sevens,
18:49right, that happens at the sports hub. So the Singapore sevens happens on Sunday, rugby finals
18:54on Monday. And when the boys walk onto the pitch, you can see they can barely believe it,
18:59you know, all the logos are still there, all the different markings on the pitch are still there,
19:04and 8,000 people fill the stadium, whether it's parents or teachers and friends and so on. So
19:11that experience is really unmatchable. We celebrate racial harmony month, just a couple of weeks ago
19:17at the sports hub. We have a whole range of different events. In fact, this morning, I was
19:21at the sports hub because my ministry had a sports day there, and I spent 20 minutes doing
19:25Zumba. But it's now really a place for everyone. That was the main motivation. But along the way,
19:33we also realised that it's not possible to sustain it if we didn't have high quality
19:39acts. And when we look at Singapore's infrastructure, I felt we were ready for
19:43this. We were ready to host these events from a safety security perspective, transport was
19:49good for us, and so on. So we looked around about two and a half years, we completed the
19:55transaction I think in December 2022. But we started thinking about whether we could bring
19:59in someone like Taylor Swift, maybe in early to mid 2022. And at that time, if you remember,
20:06she had not yet announced her Eras tour. Her Eras tour is the biggest tour in history.
20:11Had not yet announced it, we weren't sure that it would succeed. But the brand name of Taylor
20:15Swift was very strong. So we sent out some feelers, asked around. And of course, you know,
20:23this is a major pop artist, so you don't make them come to Singapore for a meeting, right? You don't
20:28say sit down, sit around our table and have some, you know, Jacob's crackers and coffee,
20:34and discuss the concert, right? That's what we normally do in government.
20:38But maybe some roti prata, tehsi.
20:41Yeah, now we are a bit better, but you know, Jacob's crackers still a standard.
20:48And so we said, okay, look, let's go and visit them, right? Let's go there and go to LA and
20:55get a meeting going. And so that's what we did. We decided it was when we left Singapore,
21:01we knew that we were meeting them, but we did not know what her tour schedule would look like.
21:07We just knew that she had announced some dates in the US. And so it was really a shot in the
21:12dark. And we said, let's go back and let's go there and see what we can do. We went there
21:17and we spent one day just listening to them and getting to know them. And then we realised that
21:24they were already thinking about what to do beyond the US. And so that's when we said,
21:28okay, look, come to Singapore, right? Make them an offer, come to Singapore. Yes, we did say,
21:34don't go anywhere else in Southeast Asia, but that's because they were talking to us about
21:42multiple nights. They wanted to come to Singapore and set up for multiple nights. And I mean, look,
21:49it's not possible for us to stage it multiple nights if there were also multiple nights in
21:53many other cities. So for us to make it work, we had to make it only Singapore. And so yeah,
22:00I know some of our neighbours were not so happy, but the reality is we had to look at what would
22:06work for Singapore and how we can benefit Singapore. So we said, okay, come, you know,
22:11multiple nights and not anywhere else in Southeast Asia. And so we then had tourists come in and that
22:19was very successful. We also said, can you make Singapore the last stop of a particular link?
22:26And she agreed. And the reason we wanted that was because if you were successful in the first
22:32couple of days shows, tickets-wise, we can then extend. If you were sandwiched in between two
22:39acts, you don't have the ability to extend. So that's why you see her tour schedule. She goes
22:44from, I think it was Europe, then Japan, Tokyo, I think she was in Tokyo. Then she bypassed Singapore.
22:53She went to Melbourne and I think Sydney, and then came back to Singapore. And then she
23:00announced, I think two nights or three nights first. And then when we saw that it was crazy,
23:04we then said, okay, look, we'll extend. So that's how we managed to get her into Singapore for two
23:10weeks. What a great story. So what's your favourite song? Actually, I must confess that I wasn't a big
23:18fan. One of my daughters is a crazy fan. It's like she's mad. And she made me listen to it. She
23:31said, you can't go and talk to Taylor Swift's team and you don't know her songs. You'll be
23:38the embarrassment. So she made me listen to it in the car. She played it endlessly in the car.
23:42And after a while, I must say it grew on me. So I am now quite a fan. And so actually I'm
23:50quite a big fan of the new album, the Tortured Poets Department. And my favourite song from that
23:55album is, well, it's changed a little bit, but today it is So Long London. I don't know whether
24:04you all know the song. But the popular one, I like all the popular ones. I love the 22 because
24:09of the hat. I love Cruel Summer. I mean, it was a fantastic opening. How many of you went to the
24:16concert? A few did. The rest tried really hard. So the next big act, right? Next big act. So what
24:26we're doing is, first, we are going to be building a new indoor arena. We've decided that the current
24:33indoor arena doesn't quite work. So a couple of months ago at the budget, I announced that we're
24:37going to be building a new indoor arena. We're going to make it bigger than the current one
24:41and purpose build it so that it'll be easy to turn from sports to concerts and to lifestyle
24:47and to Disney on Ice and so on easily. One of the current limitations is it takes us a long time
24:52in the current indoor stadium configuration to move from sports to arts to concerts and to family
25:00entertainment. So it then allows us to maximise the number of days. So we're going to be rebuilding
25:05at the site of the current indoor stadium so that the current indoor stadium will run
25:09until the time is ready to cut over. Then we will just stop the old one and move to the new one.
25:16We will have capacity for big concerts like the 60,000 at the stadiums and also about the 16,000,
25:2318,000 at the indoor stadium. We have a number of good Asian acts coming. Andy Lau is coming,
25:28those of you interested from that generation. Jackie Chung spent 11 nights last year and he's
25:35thinking of coming back again. We have Dua Lipa, you all know Dua Lipa? She's quite popular. I
25:43think she's Albanian, if I'm not wrong, but she sings in English and she has a major act with,
25:49major duet with Andrea Bocelli, which is very popular. So she's coming. Oliver Rodrigo is
25:55coming. She was huge demand-wise when we opened for ticket sales. The ticket sales were like 15
26:02times the capacity that we had. So it shows you that there's a demand. It shows you that
26:07people in Singapore, as well as maybe in the region, are interested in coming to Singapore,
26:11and I think that that bodes well for us. So we will continue to do this. We will continue to
26:16bring all these quality acts to Singapore so that we can enjoy it right here.
26:20Thank you, thank you. I've actually got a lot of other questions, but I'm going to
26:23call it a time here, because we've got a lot of booths outside for you to also visit,
26:28and I know you have a hard stop at 2.30. So thank you for sharing so much with us,
26:34and may we have a round of applause for Mr Spruce. Thank you very much.