Stefan Molyneux
  • 5 months ago
Freedomain FLASH Live Chat 18 July 2024

In this episode, we discussed the link between shyness and perceived arrogance, highlighting the importance of actively contributing in social interactions. We explored overcoming negative emotions for personal growth, emphasized the impact of anxiety on academic performance, and stressed the need to work on social skills to prevent shyness from hindering interactions. Reflecting on interruptions and resistance in conversations, we emphasized the value of respectful communication and the pursuit of truth.

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Transcript
00:00:00Hey there it's Jeff. I just wanted to let you know this was a flash live stream that we did
00:00:06and it turned into an extremely savage and to some degree off-putting but very instructive debate
00:00:13and so we do the debate and then we do the analysis of it right afterwards so just wanted
00:00:18to mention that up front before you start kicking in much much interesting stuff very worth listening
00:00:23to and thanks again of course everyone for all of your support of the show. So yes hi everybody
00:00:28little flash live stream hope that you're doing well thank you for your support
00:00:33and interest in this magnificent philosophy conversation and I wanted to talk a little
00:00:39bit about something I mentioned yesterday in my grandiose topless show which has yet to be
00:00:45released and it has something to do with this question of shyness of shyness now
00:00:54if something persists in general it is because the opposite belief is held
00:01:10if something persists the opposite belief is held so if you think of someone who's promiscuous
00:01:17right let's just say a woman who's promiscuous well she has some belief that promiscuity is a
00:01:23plus and a positive adds value and of course we act in a way that we hope will make us happy
00:01:32and promiscuity doesn't lead to happiness neither for men nor for women but in particular for women
00:01:42because a man has time later in life to fix these kinds of mistakes right a man later in life can
00:01:49say oh I shouldn't have done that you know when he's 30 or 35 even I mean I really only started
00:01:55my business career when I was 27 or 28 so I was 10 years an adult now I spent a couple years in
00:02:01theater school I spent a couple years doing an English literature degree I spent a couple years
00:02:07doing a history degree I spent a year working I spent a year a little bit more than a year in
00:02:12fact year and a half almost doing a master's degree and so you know was I faffing around a
00:02:18little yeah I'd say so I was trying to find a good place I basically was biding time until I
00:02:24could podcast I was killing time until I could podcast that was really all that was going on
00:02:28sort of in hindsight and so and I didn't get married until I was in my 30s and I'm fine
00:02:37I mean I'm fine would like to have had more kids but overall things are great right so I had time
00:02:44to recover to to hit my traction to get my groove on and to make things work but for women of course
00:02:52you have a much shorter runway you have to be I mean if I'm landing on a really long runway I don't
00:02:56have to be as good a pilot as if I'm landing on an aircraft carrier in a in a high storm right
00:03:02that's a you got to hook the belly of the plane on those stop elastics or whatever they are so
00:03:11for women promiscuity is particularly bad now if a woman says well you know sexual liberation and
00:03:19pleasure and hedonism and being a cool chick like the whole point of propaganda really is to get you
00:03:25to not question your direction and it gives you absolutes of I would say moral positives or the
00:03:37way to live because you know people don't say hedonism is a moral positive they say what they
00:03:43do is they say that people who restrain themselves right we've all seen this a zillion times in all
00:03:52these endless stoner movies but people who restrain themselves and who defer gratification
00:03:58those people are squares they're repressed they're weird they don't know how to have fun
00:04:08and all of that right and so well I don't want to be one of those nerds who doesn't know how to have
00:04:13fun and you just you put pretty people in roles doing cool things and uh looking satisfied and
00:04:20happy and all this like it to sell single I remember seeing this there was an old show
00:04:26called damage with Glenn Close and Glenn Close was a single bitter unmarried childless angry
00:04:35tense explosive lawyer and how do you sell that horrible life to women well she sits in a perfect
00:04:43apartment everything's absolutely clean and she sips a tall glass of blood red wine and smiles
00:04:53to herself that sort of smugness and happiness and all of that tends to be how they sell this
00:05:01stuff so they sell you this is what you have to do to be good or cool or attractive and so on right
00:05:10and then you start down that path
00:05:15and as you start down that path you get the initial happiness which is partly relief okay
00:05:21this is how I'm gonna live I'm gonna be a hedonist or something like that right I'm gonna
00:05:26live this way and live a pleasure gonna live for the clubs gonna live for tinder and bumble and
00:05:32whatever right and then what happens is you begin to feel unhappy right but you see to begin to feel
00:05:44unhappy is to be a square is to be repressed is to be a prude and so you push that away and you
00:05:52just double down and it just goes on and on that way now some people they take the exit ramp right
00:06:01some people break out and they say woof you know this is a bad idea and they self-correct
00:06:09not many not many probably only about 10 to 20 percent of people self-correct
00:06:14most people just double down and they get more and more miserable
00:06:21and they don't want to say to themselves I've been duped into selling my soul right living for pleasure
00:06:27is selling yourself and the reason why that analogy is so powerful and so accurate is because
00:06:34the soul is the analogy if you like if you're not religious the soul is the analogy for our higher
00:06:45rational human consciousness that which separates us from the animals and if you live for pleasure
00:06:53then you are living for the flesh alone
00:06:57and you have given up your soul you've become a highly cunning and calculating animal
00:07:05an NPC. NPCs are soulless in a way of course because they have given up their ability to think
00:07:16and reason and process and they're simply programmed into particular responses right
00:07:25what's this old saying says like if you're arguing with a boomer or a leftist you're actually just
00:07:31you're actually just arguing with the television and the television can't hear what you're saying
00:07:37and doesn't care what you think so if you take this great gift of free will rational consciousness
00:07:46and you devolve it into a sort of pleasure-seeking missile well which actually detonates on your
00:07:53future then you are basically living like an animal you've uncoupled your higher consciousness
00:08:00and you're living for sensation which is what animals do animals live for
00:08:04sensation right the dog wants the treat and so the dog will do the trick the dog doesn't sit there
00:08:10and say well i feel like a bit of a slave here i'm just kind of being programmed and bought and
00:08:14paid for and controlled and i don't really have any free will of my own the dog's like
00:08:18mmm milk bone yummy you want me to sit yeah i'll sit and give me the milk bone right
00:08:25so that's why they talk about that's why the argument is that you lose your soul soul being
00:08:33again if you're secular the analogy for your higher consciousness so people who are hedonistic
00:08:43look like they are having fun and they advertise it like they're having fun
00:08:49fun to me there's often been kind of a brittle annoying shrillness to that pursuit of pleasure
00:08:56you know like the woo girls the girls in the bar who put their hands over their heads in their
00:09:01skimpy tops and woohoo you know the woo girls when i call them right
00:09:04i mean that's just kind of hysterical it's kind of insistent it's uh manic it's kind of manic
00:09:13and so if you pursue a life of hedonism and of course you know the pleasures of the body are
00:09:18important you can't just live for the spirit or the mind you have the pleasures of the body
00:09:23are important because happiness is a satisfaction in the mind but it also manifests in the dopamine
00:09:30from the body right so body pleasures are important and mental free will acuity curiosity
00:09:38and reason are very important that is what defines us as human beings so
00:09:44if you have the wrong answer
00:09:49then the problems continue if you have the wrong answer as to why you're unhappy your unhappiness
00:09:57will continue if you think that sitting around eating cheetos makes you healthy and fit well
00:10:05you don't get healthy and fit right your unhealthiness continues to escalate because
00:10:12because you have the wrong answer and if you look at things in your life this is a sort of
00:10:16very big macro view of your life and one of the most helpful things that philosophy can do as a
00:10:20whole is philosophy will say to you wherever your repetitive problems are so also is the wrong
00:10:32conclusion wherever your repetitive problems are there exists the wrong answer i mean if you
00:10:44if you want to drive to vegas and you're supposed to go north but you instead go south and continue
00:10:48to go south you just get further and further away from vegas because you have the wrong answer
00:10:54we've all met and i'll speak about women here because i'm straight as the horizon which means
00:11:02i guess only slightly bent from a high altitude but we've all met the women who complain about
00:11:10their exes right i i talked many moons ago about meeting a woman and going out for coffee with a
00:11:19woman and she complained that her ex-boyfriend had run up seventeen thousand dollars of bills
00:11:26on her credit card and then taken off and she was outraged at this right and you know just ladies i
00:11:34mean and this is true for for men as well right but it's kind of important right if a blind man
00:11:42compliments your painting does it mean anything to you well no the blind man cannot judge your
00:11:48painting because it's a visual medium right if the deaf man praises your song blah blah right
00:11:57so if you say that you have no judgment it is no compliment to be approved of right if you say well
00:12:06i can't judge anything i like you right so i remember with this woman getting this dismal
00:12:12sense of okay so she chooses to have a relationship with and sleep with a guy
00:12:19who steals seventeen thousand dollars from her and that's even worse than just stealing because
00:12:23then you've got the interest as well right you got to pay your twenty percent pound of flesh
00:12:27to the credit card companies right so it's worse than just stealing to run up credit card debt so
00:12:32this guy is a massive thief who's kind of crippled her i mean that's a i mean in your
00:12:3720s i mean any time right in your 20s in particular 17 000 bucks and this was a long
00:12:42time ago as decades ago so it'd be like 30 40 000 now i mean that's crippling you you will
00:12:48probably be working for 10 years to pay that off especially given the interest rates right
00:12:55so when the woman was complaining to me i was like okay so let's say she likes me well that's
00:13:03just a blind man saying he likes my painting it's no compliment to me as an artist or as a painter
00:13:07or anything like that it's so don't complain about your exes do not complain about your exes
00:13:16if you complain about your exes you're saying i have terrible judgment i can't tell a good guy
00:13:24from a bad guy a good woman from a bad woman so if you're saying you have no judgment how on earth
00:13:31is the woman or the man supposed to feel complimented if you say you like them
00:13:41so yeah don't do don't do that just as a whole and the other thing i also thought at the time
00:13:45was okay so let's say i get involved in a relationship with this woman i'm going to
00:13:50have to transfer or that income is going to come out of our relationship of you know twenty to
00:13:57thirty thousand dollars depending on how quickly she can pay down the principal
00:14:02twenty to thirty thousand dollars is going to come out of this relationship in other words
00:14:06i'm going to have to if we get involved in a relationship or a marriage then i'm going to
00:14:11have to cough up my money to give to her ex-boyfriend oh yuck thank you but but no thank you so
00:14:21so shyness is something that is misunderstood and this is one of the reasons why it continues
00:14:33right sorry right i haven't made the case yet let me try and make the case and see if if this makes
00:14:38sense to you so shy people who are true introverts will just stay home and you don't really know
00:14:48anything about them you know like the boo radley shut-ins you know they just haunt the hallways
00:14:53and you might smell them as they get their mail but they don't really impact upon your consciousness
00:14:57and they don't intrude upon anyone's life so i'm not talking about like the real agoraphobic
00:15:07introverts who don't emerge into society or anything like that lord knows how they make
00:15:11a living probably something online but but they don't do that right so i'm talking about the
00:15:17introverts who enter into society and come to parties and come to dinner parties and engage in
00:15:28interactions and chats and games and they're just kind of shy it's awkward you know they
00:15:35don't really talk and they just kind of warp the conversations around them
00:15:40so why is shyness hard to solve and i say this as i was a very shy kid when i was younger and
00:15:49my daughter went through a shy phase as well and we both uh conquered it at roughly about the same
00:15:58time so probably something genetic in it but i went from shyness to i mean i think fairly
00:16:05i went from shyness to i mean i think fairly outspoken fairly confident fairly direct
00:16:10and so i know a little bit about this it's not proof i'm just saying i have some direct experience
00:16:16so what do we misunderstand about shyness
00:16:22well shyness is the underbelly of arrogance shyness is the underbelly of arrogance
00:16:36so if you look at someone let's call him bob and bob is really shy and bob is like no you know what
00:16:42i'm going to go to this dinner party and bob sits there you know radiating tension and unhappiness
00:16:50and bob doesn't say much and is really awkward in his replies so bob what is bob doing bob
00:17:01bob is putting is making the work more difficult and putting it on other people that's arrogant
00:17:13so if a whole bunch of people you know the thing in your 20s when you have to move you
00:17:18invite a whole bunch of friends over to help you move and in return pizza and beer you know
00:17:26maybe a movie night setting up in a new place and that's what you do now if someone doesn't come
00:17:33they don't help move and they don't get the pizza and beer but what do you think of someone who does
00:17:37come to help you move and doesn't help you move and then wants all the pizza and beer
00:17:47i mean that's being a total jerk right i'm not going to help you move but i will take
00:17:54seven slices of pizza and four beers that's one thing now what if though the person who's
00:18:03supposed to come and help you move in return for the pizza and beers not only does that person not
00:18:09help you move but they're constantly in the way they trip people up they they stand on the staircase
00:18:14they make everything more and more and more difficult well that's arrogant that's interfering
00:18:24and so when shy people come to a dinner party bob comes to a dinner party and he's like it won't say
00:18:29anything and he just interferes and he laughs awkwardly and inappropriately everybody else has
00:18:34to bend around bob
00:18:41right everyone has to bend around bob everyone's got to accommodate bob everyone's got to adjust
00:18:50their behavior to deal with bob and everyone becomes kind of a slave to bob
00:18:59everyone has to work on bob's agenda
00:19:02everyone has to deal with accommodate and bend to and is kind of enslaved to bob
00:19:09and that's arrogant that everyone else has to adjust to you and you won't put in the effort
00:19:19to make things easier for people you want to come for the pizza and beer
00:19:23but you don't want to lift any furniture and in fact you just stand in the way
00:19:29and people start snapping at you man get out of the way well you're constantly underfoot go do
00:19:34right you're constantly underfoot go do something productive or go home right
00:19:43and of course it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and
00:19:47arrogance and self-fulfilling prophecies often go hand in hand
00:19:51so to take the analogy of helping someone move bob comes to help a friend move
00:19:58and bob is like well you know i don't i don't know what to do and and i i don't think i'm
00:20:02going to be helpful and people often get annoyed at me in these kinds of situations so he just
00:20:05stands around and fuffs around and knocks things over and stands in the way and accidentally trips
00:20:10people carrying a couch down a spiral staircase right and and then people say bob like what are
00:20:18you doing help or go home right and if bob sticks around after interfering for a couple of hours
00:20:25with the move like being in people's way maybe he carries one lamp you know and he gets in people's
00:20:34way and people are annoyed and they're sweaty and you know men in particular have a very delicate
00:20:39sense and a very accurate sense of who's pulling their weight or not so after that
00:20:48bob helps himself with his fifth beer and his seventh slice of pizza and people really dislike bob
00:21:00because he's arrogant he's coming he's not helping he's in the way and he wants all the resources
00:21:06without providing any of the work and in fact interfering with other people
00:21:11he's in the way of the work getting done he's a net negative to the work getting done but he's
00:21:16taking all the rewards uh as if he'd done the work the pizza and beer now that's arrogant
00:21:26i don't want to help i'm not going to prepare i'm not going to do this i'm not going to do that
00:21:31but i want all the goodies that's aristocratic
00:21:35that's aristocratic
00:21:39that's like being the man or lord with his serfs and everyone's like oh you know well bob's just
00:21:46really shy it's like no bob's not shy he's arrogant and entitled if you want the goodies
00:21:57do the work if you want the pizza lift the table if you want the beer hoist and haul the boxes
00:22:11if you want the benefits of social interaction contribute to it
00:22:18it contribute to it this goes back to dungeons and dragons many many moons ago i've mentioned
00:22:27this on the show before but there was a guy we're all chipping in for pizza and he pulls out a coupon
00:22:36and was he contributing to the pizza his argument was he was reducing the price of the pizza
00:22:40our argument was he wasn't spending any of his own money and nobody else could use that coupon
00:22:45because it was only one and he said nobody else has the coupon and it was an interesting debate
00:22:52is the purpose to reduce the price or is the purpose to contribute
00:22:56and this is a guy and the problem was that he was just cheap like if he'd have said man i'm
00:23:01really broke this week i'm so sorry i the only thing i can contribute is this coupon now if you
00:23:07guys don't want that that's fine i'll do without but yeah sorry but he didn't say that right he
00:23:13was uh we used to make jokes about this guy that you know when he would open his wallet
00:23:19and get this creaking sound you know moths would fly out there'd be some dusty roman denarii
00:23:26uh in the bottom of his his wallet because he hadn't spent money since the fall of rome
00:23:32and yeah it's just he was just cheap as a whole so it's a sort of pattern
00:23:36so people who are shy feel that they're very self-effacing and they're very insecure
00:23:43and they're very doubting of themselves and it's like well then don't show up to move
00:23:49people don't show up to help in a move if you're going to get in the way
00:23:55you know like if i say well you know i'm just so weak and i'm so delicate and i can't really
00:23:59lift things and i'm very uncoordinated blah blah blah blah and i'm just so weak and i'm so
00:24:04blah blah blah blah oh i'm just so i'm so unable to help people move okay then don't show up to
00:24:09help people move but if i know all of this about myself and then i show up don't help people move
00:24:15and in fact get in the way of people who are helping people move and then i want all of the
00:24:21pizza and beer i'm an a-hole i'm an entitled arrogant a-hole who wants something for nothing
00:24:31and this shyness this this shifting of the burden to other people so that they can run the dinner
00:24:41party they can cook the food they can lay out the table they can get the drinks they can invite
00:24:47everyone over they can do all that work they can run the conversation and then you just show up
00:24:53plunk yourself in a corner eat the food and be awkward don't go if you can't contribute
00:25:02right don't go if you can't contribute i remember when i was in the business world and i was first
00:25:06picked to speak at conferences i worked like crazy to make sure i had something of value to offer
00:25:16like like honestly i can't even tell you because i would be giving speeches to people with 20 years
00:25:21experience in a particular industry and i didn't want to be this arrogant idiot who demands their
00:25:26time without having anything of value to add so i worked like crazy to make sure not just because
00:25:32it's not just a speech there's a q a and i didn't want i wanted to make sure that i could add value
00:25:41i mean this is a constant thing in my life where i want to add maximum value
00:25:48you know i've been doing call-ins for like 18 years and i still at the end of call-ins will
00:25:53generally ask people how was the call for you did you have value did it add value and so on right
00:25:57so i want to make sure you know i'm doing these private call-ins now and all the way through the
00:26:01private call-ins i'm like is this is this the most value that can be added is this the best
00:26:06and most helpful thing for you and right because i want to add value in my family uh are you enjoying
00:26:12my company are we doing fun things is there anything else you want to do differently just
00:26:15make sure you add value because i'm not selfish i'm not arrogant
00:26:20i don't assume that i add value by breathing and i don't put
00:26:28the demand on other people to do all my work right you ever had uh somebody i think we've
00:26:37all had this experience at one time another year and you're in some projects right some group
00:26:43project doom right you're in some group project right and in the group project
00:26:54there's almost always at least usually more but there's almost always at least one dud
00:26:59like one guy one girl who doesn't do the work into the work they'll show up they'll drink the
00:27:07pop they might eat the pizza but they haven't read anything they don't contribute and they
00:27:12just sit there now frankly a lot of times it's the pretty people well i've just shown up and
00:27:19i'm pretty so why would i need to do any work right this sort of arrogance right
00:27:23so there's this people who don't contribute and they're annoying as hell because they'll take the
00:27:27marks but they won't contribute i mean i remember when i was in high school i uh was in a theater
00:27:35group and we were supposed to take a play around to teach kids some valuable lesson
00:27:46and we toured other high schools putting on this play
00:27:51and there were i don't know six or seven people in this theater group and we all sort of got
00:27:59together at a friend's place and we were i was about 16 or 17 and we went over some ideas and
00:28:06people you know it'd be cool if we did this but no and so eventually i just had to write the play
00:28:13had to write the play had to write the theme had to write the scenes and all that and everyone
00:28:19else you know the play was very well received and and all of that and i remember the first
00:28:25the first scenes were each character was a kind of archetype in high school and
00:28:33each scene the character woke up to a particular song and that song defined the character i played
00:28:39the preppy guy and i woke up to whams wake me up before you go go right so
00:28:47i did all the work directed it i was in it i wrote it and everyone else got the marks
00:28:54and we got a lot of accolades and you know we toured a whole bunch of high schools and
00:28:58that was fun but i recognized that i was doing the work and other people were
00:29:07you know it was all your group did a great job and it's like yeah all right whatever right i'd
00:29:11rather do the work and share the prize than be that lazy entitled and arrogant to just hitch along
00:29:24so i mean there was a guy in there in that in our play he actually had a car and a driver's license
00:29:32but he never offered to drive us we had to take the bus to get to these various schools to put
00:29:37on this play it's really sad so the shyness stuff
00:29:45is when you recognize a deficiency
00:29:47see you won't fix it and you put all the work on everyone else
00:29:56so if you're shy recognize that there's an arrogance and an entitlement and a kind of
00:30:03bullying in that which is you go to social events and you expect everybody else to do all the work
00:30:15for you and you nom nom nom like pac-man and all the social physical material eating and drinking
00:30:22goodies you just consume consume consume and you won't lift a goddamn finger to help the host out
00:30:29so you know there's an old phrase if you have a really cool story right i don't know you met
00:30:37noel gallagher in his prime or you know and then he he got drunk well it's unusual i guess so there's
00:30:43an old saying it's like wow that guy can he can he can dine out for years on that story
00:30:50right that guy can dine out for years in that story and that's because if you are going
00:30:59to a dinner party and it's not a potluck and you're not being charged of course right so
00:31:07other people are putting in dozens of hours and hundreds and hundreds of dollars
00:31:11to make a good dinner party you are expected to sing for your supper right you don't have to bring
00:31:20food but you better bring some good conversation because you know everybody wants that magical
00:31:28dinner party that everyone i still remember dinner parties i had for many many years ago
00:31:33where everything just clicked together everything was fantastic everything was perfect i mean i had
00:31:38one not even too long ago we had a dinner party and we had you know really hilarious conversation
00:31:45everything clicked the jokes were flowing then we played a game the game the card game called cheat
00:31:50and there were some kids around of course so then we ended up playing charades and the kids had a
00:31:54blast and it was just like a perfect evening it was a perfect evening and i will remember that
00:32:02my whole life and i've got i don't know i can't even tell you i'm pretty good at throwing dinner
00:32:05parties as you can imagine so
00:32:12people can come over now if if everyone came over and was shy and awkward it would be a nightmare
00:32:19like i would hate it and everybody would hate it and everyone would feel annoyed
00:32:25everyone would feel annoyed and rightly so because you're taking
00:32:29without giving it's one-sided it's exploitive it's parasitical almost
00:32:42so of course i know the answer right what is the response that shy people say right what is the
00:32:49response that shy people say well the response that shy people say is they say well it's not
00:32:53my fault i'm socially awkward it's not my issue you know i'm just shy it's just tough for me to
00:32:58it's like okay then don't go if i'm too weak let's say i'm just recovering from the flu right
00:33:05i'm too weak to help my friend move like i can barely get up the stairs because i'm
00:33:12wiped out from the flu right okay so if i'm too tired to help someone move physically weak can't
00:33:22help someone move then what's the point of me showing up clogging up the works getting in the
00:33:26way dropping things knocking things over tripping people up and then wanting all
00:33:32the pizza and beer that's arrogant that's entitled it's greedy it's selfish
00:33:40now am i saying all shy people are like this it doesn't matter it doesn't matter i'm simply
00:33:46examining the behavior everyone takes the principles and immediately in a defensive way
00:33:51tries to apply it to themselves if they're shy or someone else they know oh they're not like that
00:33:54they just know about that well okay but the arguments are irrefutable that shy people come
00:34:04and take social resources while expecting everyone else to do all the work and not just all the work
00:34:09but extra work it's not just that you have to do the work of the shy person right like if there's
00:34:1710 people and one shy person it's not like everyone else has to do 10% more work to make
00:34:25up for the quietness of the shy person everyone else has double or triple the work because they've
00:34:30got to figure out the awkwardness you know people who are good conversationalists tend to be quite
00:34:35sensitive and they can figure out when someone's feeling really awkward and tense and stressed and
00:34:41so then they'll you know it's so much work you have to work work work it's not just like well
00:34:47they're not saying anything therefore we have to do a little bit more conversation it's not like
00:34:52the shy person isn't there they are there and they're completely in the way you know if somebody
00:34:58if you've got 10 people at a dinner party and one person just doesn't show up right the car breaks
00:35:07down or they just can't make it or they get sick or something okay so then you just have one less
00:35:12person that's not what it like that's not what it's like when there's a shy person around you
00:35:16don't have one less person you have someone in the way of good conversation because if everyone's
00:35:27chatting and having a great time and laughing and telling stories and you know all that dopamine
00:35:32laced convivial hobbiton shire stuff of raising your butter beer and eating your canaps well
00:35:40that's great right but if someone is sitting in the middle of that dinner table shy and miserable
00:35:48and and radiating unhappiness and awkwardness and laughing at the wrong times and telling
00:35:52weird stories if they even speak at all it screws it up. Shy people in social gatherings are like
00:36:01people pissing into a pool during a pool party
00:36:11and then when you point this out shy people get all kinds of passive what am i supposed to do i'm
00:36:14supposed to play something i don't know i don't know how to do i'm not good at it i'm just trying
00:36:18to learn nope nope nope nope nope no just learn how to socialize oh it's not easy to learn i know
00:36:29it's not easy to learn how to socialize trust me i grew up in a crazy dysfunctional messed up
00:36:35single mother household on hell street any town in the matriarchal manners in the bottom bowels
00:36:44of the screwed up welfare state i get it i had to do some work i had to do some work
00:36:51so if you want to help your friends move and you want to be included in the great parties where
00:36:55people move then if you're too weak to help people move well then then go to the gym go to
00:37:03the gym get some weights at home lift some weights and figure out how to help people move and if
00:37:11you're too lazy to go to the gym then don't show up drop things trip people get in the way and then
00:37:19demand your pizza and be it don't make extra work for other people because you're too lazy
00:37:28to learn how to socialize better well i i uh my parents kept me isolated okay i sympathize with
00:37:37all of that so for god's sakes you absolutely dishonor your dysfunctional childhood if you
00:37:48make it an excuse for a dysfunctional adulthood because you're in a child right you're when you
00:37:58were a child if you were being isolated and abused and mistreated and you weren't being
00:38:09allowed to learn or punished for learning basic social skills right if that's the case
00:38:13if that's the case what did you do as a child what is your inner child still screaming
00:38:19well what you did as a child what you said okay man we can survive this
00:38:28we can we can we can we can make it through we can make it through
00:38:33we can make it through man we'll get out of this we'll get out of this
00:38:37we'll get out of this like a prisoner unjustly imprisoned for years dreams
00:38:44of running through the fields knowing what the top of wheat feels like on his palm
00:38:54he doesn't survive prison to lock himself up in a tiny room in a free city
00:39:03because hey man that's just what he's used to then what's the point of surviving prison
00:39:08if you just use your prison time as an excuse to lock yourself up you're in a child
00:39:17lonely neglected isolated if that's what happened survived
00:39:24so that you could do everything that was denied to you
00:39:28denied to you so if you were isolated your inner child survived got you through
00:39:37so that you could not be isolated
00:39:47i survived and barely survived by the by i barely survived my family
00:39:55i survived a crazy violent anti-rational person family in order to what why why would i survive
00:40:08that why would i get up every morning and fight like hell to survive that well i survived violence
00:40:17so i could be peaceful i survived silencing so i could speak my mind i survived anti-rationality
00:40:23so i could be rational i survived a terrible childhood so i could spread peaceful parenting
00:40:29and be a peaceful parent myself so you survive in order to do the opposite not to spread your
00:40:37dysfunction i mean you have an immune system
00:40:43you have an immune system so that it recognizes a hostile virus or bacteria or ailment it
00:40:59recognizes a foreign and hostile entity learns to attack it and keeps you safe forever right so your
00:41:07immune system recognizes something dangerous to you adapts to repel it and keeps you safe forever
00:41:12that's the general idea and that's the purpose so your childhood you fight through a bad childhood
00:41:19in order to live the adult opposite otherwise you are absolutely dishonoring
00:41:27the fight that you as a child had to go through in order to survive bad or terrible parenting
00:41:36can you imagine if your inner child could see through the tunnel of time
00:41:40when he got up at the age of four or five or six or ten or twelve or fifteen
00:41:44to fight another fight to survive another day of terrible abusive neglectful parenting
00:41:52if he looked down the tunnel of time to you at the age of 30
00:41:56clogging up and making everyone's social life awkward being resented and disliked and still
00:42:00isolated and still neglected and still avoided people still angry at you although this time
00:42:06with more just reason is that what he was fighting for was for you to just do the same
00:42:12stupid shit over and over and over again was he fighting to survive in order to give you
00:42:18excuses to repeat oh god damn it i'm telling you now it's an absolute dishonor it is an absolute
00:42:28dishonor to your fighting child to reproduce voluntarily everything he fought to save you from
00:42:37you
00:42:41if you were fed bad food as a kid and you said well i have to eat bad food because that's all
00:42:46i'm used to no you're fed bad food as a kid and your kid in a kid survived in order for you to
00:42:52get access to better food i survived crazy people in order to live with sane people
00:43:00i survived manipulators in order to live with honest and direct people
00:43:04i survived corrupt and evil people in order to be surrounded by good and virtuous people
00:43:12i survived the quicksand acidic fog of
00:43:20subjectivism mysticism in order to have a clear rational and empirical connection
00:43:29with absolute reality you fight to get the opposite not to repeat the same
00:43:35to repeat the same and to take your childhood struggles and survivals as an excuse for more
00:43:39of the same is to continue to neglect and abuse your inner child by dishonoring everything that
00:43:46he was fighting for the soldier hopefully fights for the end of war
00:43:55the soldier does not fight so that war can be justified
00:43:59forever and ever amen otherwise there's no point fighting
00:44:07so shy people you say well you know but but i can't help it that i'm awkward it's like yes you
00:44:12can't help it that i'm awkward it's like yes you can yes you can of course you can help when you're
00:44:20awkward you can read books how to win friends and influence people you can join toastmasters
00:44:29and get used to chatting with people you can start off small you can play board games so
00:44:33that you get used to interacting with people you can practice practice practice there are so many
00:44:38books seminars instructional videos how to socialize how to get along with people and yeah
00:44:46will you make mistakes sure yeah absolutely and yeah there'll be times when you will make a mistake
00:44:55and you'll be mortified yeah so what so what who cares you're mortified suck it up and move on
00:45:03i don't know it's for it's wild to me that people use negative emotions as an excuse to stop
00:45:15and that's also parasitical i got to tell you i mean i'm just going to be blunt and
00:45:18frank with everybody today and you can like it or dislike it as you please but these are the facts
00:45:24so don't you look at everything around you your walls
00:45:28your carpeting your office your computer your headphones your windows the roof over your head
00:45:35the plumbing okay understand so all of that stuff was built by people who completed it despite
00:45:43despair everything around you do you think the farmer doesn't feel despair when some
00:45:48bull weevil comes there are even songs about it harry belafonte sings about it and the
00:45:53bull weevil comes and destroys the crop or there's too much rain or too little rain or
00:45:57the birds come or some bad thing happens or the government changes the laws or some
00:46:03geo-engineered or some biologically engineered seeds blow on your crop and then you're sued right
00:46:07all of this crazy stuff happens all of this crazy stuff happens
00:46:15yet your food is on your table anyway
00:46:18not accepting your fear and pushing through anyway is being parasitical because everything
00:46:24that is provided to you is provided to you in the face of fear and failure and horror and problems
00:46:31and injustice and lawsuits and negatives and panic and anxiety and people push through
00:46:39and build your house anyway and deliver your electricity anyway and your water and your
00:46:45and your water and your medicines they build their stores they provide their goods
00:46:53you know everything that you touch was built by someone whose family member was dying of cancer
00:47:01or whose parents were aging out into alzheimer's and they had horror and they had pain and they
00:47:09had difficulties and they make stuff and deliver it anyway because if you allow yourself to be
00:47:19stopped by negative emotions well you're living at the level of an animal which is programmed by
00:47:26its emotions and you are parasitizing of everyone else who pushes ahead anyway
00:47:34would you be happy people speak well i'm sorry
00:47:39are other people allowed to speak or is the monologue to could you could you not type that
00:47:44question in well i don't know so most most people who do well in exams do well in exams because of
00:47:54so-called negative emotions so you're completely missing out on the fact that people who feel
00:48:00positive do less in society so you're attacking people who do more for society because they feel
00:48:06quote-unquote negative emotions negative emotions don't actually exist and number two you're saying
00:48:11okay hold on hold on brother okay first of all you're being incredibly rude just so you know
00:48:17so you asked if it was a monologue hang on hang on hang on i'm talking i'm talking now i'm talking
00:48:22now i'm this is this is how conversations work i guess you're socially awkward and you're triggered
00:48:27i get that so first of all you asked if it was a monologue still talking you asked if it was a
00:48:32monologue did you wait for a response um so you're not answering my question no no i'm i'm asking a
00:48:44question here no no because hang on hang on problem with finnish people okay you're avoiding
00:48:49so this is an example of a shy person who's triggered and is aggressive so he asked me is
00:48:54it a monologue or am i allowed to talk hang on he asked me is it a monologue am i allowed to talk i
00:49:00did not give him an answer and he started lecturing me anyway he did not give me a chance to respond
00:49:05to his points he told me i was wrong he said number one and then he moved on to number two
00:49:09without giving me any chance to respond so this is a rude person now i'm happy to have the
00:49:18conversation with you but if you ask someone am i allowed to interrupt your monologue right
00:49:25interrupting a monologue is a little rude i mean i don't know if you raised your hand james was
00:49:31supposed to track this stuff and let me know so i don't know if you raised your hand to talk
00:49:36but if i'm in the middle of a monologue and you interrupt me and that's not the end of the world
00:49:40that's fine but then if you say is this a monologue or am i allowed to talk and i don't give you an
00:49:47answer and you start talking anyway that's rude right would you agree
00:49:57this is the arrogance i'm talking about i'm going to decide when i want to talk i'm interrupting you
00:50:04and even even if you don't give me permission to speak because i i was actually in the middle of a
00:50:10monologue i was just finishing it up but that's fine i mean it's not the end of the world that
00:50:13you interrupted me but if you say in an annoyed tone if you say well is this just a monologue or
00:50:19am i allowed to talk i was like that's right you're more concerned about home you said you're
00:50:25direct and empirical but you're more concerned about someone's tone which is largely cultural
00:50:30than the actual substance of the conversation so all you want to do is be a victim what
00:50:38no that's pretty funny so what i said was the substance what i said was that when you interrupted
00:50:46me that's a little rude but not the end of the world could be totally fine right so there's a
00:50:51hand raise function in telegram where you raise your hand if you want to talk i assume you can
00:50:56do that so maybe you don't know the architecture you don't know that that's fine but then you said
00:51:02but then you said am i allowed to interrupt your monologue
00:51:06and i didn't give you an answer and then you just went ahead with your thing anyway so you
00:51:10didn't actually ask me if it was okay to interrupt my monologue you just started talking now that's
00:51:14rude i didn't say anything about tone with regards to that so now you're just making up something else
00:51:21you're you're going on about cultural dynamics of conversation and you're spreading christian
00:51:27science nonsense like how to inflict friends and influence people and you're trying to victimize
00:51:34shy people while playing the victim at the same time and you're avoiding the substance of my
00:51:39arguments because you don't actually care about arguments you want to play like a leftist the
00:51:44moral high ground and point out morals which are completely cultural while you know being the victim
00:51:50the whole whole time while moralizing everyone else you avoid the argument and then you're going
00:51:56to cry about being rude you have a you have your conversation it's labeled as a conversation not a
00:52:02monologue that's why i asked and then you give me an indirect false dichotomy dichotomous answer
00:52:08and i just thought well i just contradict what you're saying because you're you're you're
00:52:12spouting nonsense because what you're saying is so-called negative emotions which don't exist
00:52:17are causing people not to work when it's the opposite the data shows that uh fear anxiety
00:52:23cause people to succeed so you're spouting christian science bullshit
00:52:29okay so your perception is that i said negative emotions don't exist
00:52:35no no i'm no that's what you just said listen i listen very well
00:52:39no you just told me that i said that negative emotions don't exist
00:52:43so are you gonna stand by what you said or are you gonna win
00:52:45um you're you're do you have hearing aids i don't understand i said that you said right
00:52:53that negative emotions cause people not to work right i'm not talking about ontology of emotions
00:53:00i for me negative emotions don't exist they don't because emotions are have four four
00:53:06characteristics and they have all sorts of dimensions so they can't be categorized
00:53:11by affect theory as negative positive but you're trying to say as the affect theorists say that
00:53:17negative emotions are bad which are not that's christian science and you're trying to say that
00:53:20causes people not to work but it's not true because the empirical data measured by the five
00:53:26factor theory of personality shows that people high in so-called negative emotions like anxiety
00:53:32and fear actually do more work so you're you're talking you're saying things that are wrong you're
00:53:39you're completely wrong and that's before we get into your philosophy of attacking shy people
00:53:44so you don't like finnish people or something i don't know what's wrong there i don't like what
00:53:47people finish people yeah they're shy sorry what does finish people have to do with shyness
00:53:55finnish people are shy they don't speak much they sit in silence on the bus they don't like people
00:53:59talking it's a common stereotype which is actually true oh so that's true but you're avoiding the
00:54:05question you're avoiding the question you're saying that people who feel what you call negative
00:54:11emotions anxiety and stuff like that work less but they don't that's empirically wrong so you're
00:54:17you're talking you're not telling the truth okay so um i guess you missed the part of the
00:54:23conversation which happened right before you interrupted me the part of the conversation
00:54:28that i said was that everything that you have that is of value is delivered by people
00:54:35who persisted in the face of negative emotions right do you remember that part
00:54:41that's not necessarily true because sorry no no no do you remember that you learn to listen
00:54:46right we're trying to have a conversation here so i'm responding to what you said no no don't
00:54:50over talk me that's rude so i'm trying to respond to what you said so in return you have to respond
00:54:56to what i said so do you remember me saying just about five minutes ago right before you
00:55:02interrupted do you remember me saying look around you your computer your roof your water your
00:55:09electricity are all delivered by people who persisted and overcome overcame negative emotions
00:55:15in order to provide you what you wanted do you remember me saying that yeah okay so do you
00:55:23remember me saying that everything that is delivered to you the farmers have to face
00:55:28horror and and problems and laws and and bad weather and pestilence and and disease and
00:55:33right and they persist and they overcome and deliver to you all of these wonderful things
00:55:40right and so if you say to me that i'm arguing that negative emotions make people stop working
00:55:47when i'm saying that everything that is a value around you is provided by people who have
00:55:53persisted in the face of negative emotion how do you get that that means i'm saying that people
00:55:59with negative emotions don't work i'm saying that they push through and they persist and that's of
00:56:04great value well yeah you're dividing two people into two categories people who feel fear and
00:56:09anxiety who don't work and people fear feel fear and anxiety and break through that's not true
00:56:15they work because of the fear and anxiety they do better in exams because they're afraid the fear
00:56:21drives them so overcoming nothing it's actually the fear that makes them work okay do you understand
00:56:26do you understand how do you understand how experiments work like do you understand how
00:56:33these things are put together and how they work because it just takes a moment thought
00:56:37this nonsense that you're saying so what you're saying is sorry let me just finish my point let
00:56:41me just finish my point so what you're saying i'm responding i'm responding to your point this is
00:56:46how it works this is how it works this is how it works people this is how it works i'm not going
00:56:51to let you over talk me i need to finish my point you made a point you made a point let me respond
00:56:55to it right you made a point you made a point let me respond to it you made a point let me respond
00:57:00to it thank you okay so what you're saying is that people who show up to exams and do well
00:57:09people interview them and say well were you worried about this exam were you scared about
00:57:15this exam were you anxious about this exam and the people who do well on the exam report that
00:57:24they experienced more anxiety and fear about the exam and it could be of course that their fear and
00:57:29anxiety drove them to do better is that that's your point right i want to make sure i understand
00:57:32where you're coming from and empirically people who are naturally high and so-called positive
00:57:38emotions do less work because they have no fear sorry you have to listen to what i'm saying and
00:57:44respond to it if you want to have a conversation right so you're trying to characterize your
00:57:50argument directly yeah people the half of it yeah no no this is the part that you've made
00:57:57you haven't made the other part i'm just trying to understand the point that you made which is
00:58:02that people who do better in exams report feeling more anxious about those exams right
00:58:08no no they're high in they're measured by the five factor and they're high in anxiety they're
00:58:14just anxious whatever they do they'll be anxious about it right and that drives them to work yes
00:58:21okay i understand that so the people who do well in exams suffer from high anxiety is that what
00:58:27you're saying what you call negative emotions yeah fear anxiety neuroticism all that i'm sorry
00:58:35but they're negative emotions because we experience them as uncomfortable an orgasm is
00:58:40not a negative emotion appendicitis or passing a kidney stone is a negative emotion i'm not saying
00:58:46that they're bad for us but let's not get hung up on the positive negative thing so your argument is
00:58:53sorry go ahead that's not emotion that's physical pain and second things like anger
00:59:02have four components okay no no hang on i'm sorry i you're right i made a mistake and bring
00:59:08physical sensations in i was trying to make an example so let's go back to the people who take
00:59:12the exam right so the people who take the exam do better if they score higher in anxious or
00:59:20neurotic or generally yeah generally okay yeah okay so how do you measure the people
00:59:26whose anxiety is so great they don't take the course or don't show up for the exam or don't
00:59:32go to university at all how is that data captured of the people whose anxiety is so high they are
00:59:39avoidant rather than meticulous well there if your anxiety is so high it depends what the object of
00:59:49your anxiety is usually the object of their anxiety is a future on an insufferable situation
00:59:59so then obviously the more every every emotion emotions tend to have objects not all do but the
01:00:05emotion that has the object the directive of the future which is causing fear and anxiety
01:00:12which is creating an avoidant behavior then that avoidant behavior is going to make them work no
01:00:18matter how strong the anxiety is it depends on the dynamic because every emotion has four
01:00:23ontological factors and one of them is the object and the object can be in the present or the future
01:00:29and anxiety is 10 tends to be present focused and fear is future focused and these people who are
01:00:34high on anxiety generally are ones who work and it's the anxiety that makes them work not the
01:00:39feelings the positive the so-called positive feeling because you think people experience
01:00:45so-called positive feelings as pleasure that's not true because anger has pleasure and fear in it
01:00:50and it completely depends on the object and the cultural factors that come into it so there is no
01:00:55positive and negative emotions it's nonsense okay i can see why why you're having trouble
01:01:00with this conversation do you remember what my question was you said that uh you're you're
01:01:09trying to confirm what i was saying no you're trying to make me look stupid now i've answered
01:01:14your question no i'm no you didn't know if you've answered my question you should be able to remember
01:01:18what it is so what did i just you were saying an extreme an extreme example you try to uh use an
01:01:27extreme example uh you try to pigeonhole people with extreme anxiety and you try to categorize
01:01:33them as avoidant and i turn around it says depends what they're avoiding do you remember what my
01:01:38question so you're trying to hang on no do you remember what my rather than characterizing what
01:01:42you fantasize that i'm all about emotionally do you remember what my actual words were of my
01:01:47question that's what i remember i was answering that so you don't remember what i'm answering
01:01:53right that's not what i am what did you ask there well do you understand that this is not
01:01:57looking good for you and this is again if you want to engage i'm still talking i'm still talking
01:02:03so if you want to engage in a conversation and to change people's minds and to not look like
01:02:09rude you need to listen to what people are saying right that's reasonable right i mean we can't have
01:02:15a conversation if you don't listen to my questions you can't we can't have a conversation so just to
01:02:21be clear just to be clear now if you could do me a favor i'm really enjoying the conversation
01:02:25but please don't over talk please don't over talk me let me finish my points all right so my question
01:02:31was if you say that the people who take exams who are more anxious do well how does that study
01:02:39capture the people who whose anxiety is so high that they don't take the course or don't take
01:02:46the exam because all you're doing is you're you're you're measuring people who've overcome
01:02:52their anxiety and are doing well but what about the people who don't overcome their anxiety
01:02:57how does the study capture that no i did answer that question i answered that question that's the
01:03:02question i answered so your statement and question were the same thing so you weren't listening or
01:03:07you haven't paired up no how does the study capture the people how does the study capture
01:03:12the people whose anxiety is so high that they don't try and it does the answer is it doesn't
01:03:20if you're just measuring the people who show up to the exam then you can't measure the people
01:03:24who fail to even take the course because they're so anxious so it's a skewed sample
01:03:27you're measuring all the people who overcame still talking still talking you're measuring
01:03:32all the people who showed up to the exam and there's no way to capture the people who didn't
01:03:36show up to the exam is that fair to say well this is the point you don't know number one that it's
01:03:43anxiety that's causing them not to come to the exam no shows you don't know that most of the
01:03:47time it's not yeah yeah so it's not so i'm using i'm using a valid sample that that's that's that's
01:03:57going through statistical statistical significance testing that generally shows because they're not
01:04:02they're not uh they're not all or none uh categories they're general uh prototypical
01:04:07categories there is no um we're not machines so the general uh finding is what i've said
01:04:15and you're trying to say they overcome it but i'm telling you no they don't overcome it
01:04:19the anxiety is they're driving this is the point people who don't go to exams generally feel
01:04:26positive what we call positive happy those people don't give a fuck about exams excuse my french
01:04:31because they're already happy so you're you're slandering people so-called negative people
01:04:37whenever it's so very sensitive slander while calling me stupid and wrong and and in public
01:04:43right you're very sensitive to slander while using slander quite a bit that's just kind of
01:04:47ironic but also kind of typical okay so the short answer is that the study does not capture people
01:04:52who don't show up because they're too anxious and so it's a skewed sample you don't know that
01:04:56no i do know that you don't know if you had that answer you would give it to me you've
01:04:59already studied the study and you don't have an answer it's a representative sample so you're
01:05:05going to have the people who showed up and find one walk one you're going to find one anomaly
01:05:11and then you're making the assumption that these people who haven't shown up you don't know if they
01:05:16have are are so high in anxiety they're not coming up you don't but there is research showing that
01:05:21people high in so-called positive emotions don't work because they're already happy they have no
01:05:25motivation to work because they're happy so are you saying that for instance like a movie star
01:05:33who has more than enough money and fame to last for the rest of his life without working
01:05:39and is enjoying uh being a movie star obviously is enjoyed being paid 10 million dollars a movie
01:05:44that they stop making movies because they're already happy well most of those people in the
01:05:50movie have like extreme neuroticism and they're driven by status and their fear of lots of status
01:05:58not money because money and everything sorry how do you know that have you have you got another
01:06:02study uh that uh everybody oh so you just make your theory okay now do you think it's possible
01:06:10do you think it's possible sorry do you think that it's possible that there are some people
01:06:15whose anxiety levels are so high that they avoid uh anxiety provoking situations such as an exam
01:06:25do you think that the anomaly no no you can't answer a question with a question hang on i'm
01:06:33just asking you a question you just sound manipulative like honestly you're being
01:06:36incredibly manipulative because you're just not answering a direct question do you think it's
01:06:40possible that there are people whose anxiety levels are so high that they won't put themselves
01:06:44into stressful situations like an exam maybe but what does it matter what do you mean maybe
01:06:53what do you mean maybe maybe i don't know okay so you don't know you don't have a clue and you're
01:06:57attacking me see here's the problem my friend i've been doing this publicly for close to 20 years
01:07:04and i have spoken with countless people who have very high levels of anxiety that is causing them
01:07:09to be paralyzed i know people personally who have very high levels of anxiety and it causes them to
01:07:14be paralyzed or they feel paralyzed i have a lot of people who call in who say i have a lot of
01:07:19anxiety i'm not getting anywhere in my life i'm paralyzed with fear i'm avoidant and so i have
01:07:26countless empirical examples and you can look for them in the call-in shows i have countless
01:07:30empirical examples of people who have been and have called me up for help with crippling anxiety
01:07:37now if you don't know that that's fine i mean you don't have to do what i do but the problem is that
01:07:42you're literally holding a ball in front of me and saying it's not a ball because i have talked to
01:07:46many people no there are some people of course who do overcome their anxieties and continue on
01:07:51and that's great and there are some people who don't and that's my point and if you agree with
01:07:55that i'm not sure what we're fighting about you're you've you've retracted into a an extreme example
01:08:05and you're using anecdotal evidence of people who are calling in who like to receive advice
01:08:13from people with social status and they're playing the psychological game of um possessor
01:08:18and victim if you ever read thomas shah's the myth of mental illness you know what you're describing
01:08:24here is a social game of how victims uh retrieve its attention and and uh ego gain or whatever it's
01:08:32called the narcissism from a person pitting out the advice that's all that is just a setup
01:08:37and number two you're using one extreme example but you're avoiding the other examples there's
01:08:42people with histrionic so-called personality disorder they're too happy they can't do anything
01:08:48so so you're just focusing on anxiety you're saying people with anxiety and shy people
01:08:55are a problem they're they're um what is the word for they're not they're not yeah you're saying
01:09:01that they're not doing their work but there's but you're just focused on the anxious people
01:09:06and the shy people there's people who are histrionic and they're always competing for
01:09:10your attention and they're 10 times worse than shy people because they're like people who come
01:09:16to your house and you're whatever moving a piece of furniture and they come around and they move
01:09:21every piece of furniture and rearrange your whole house and they come up to you and say oh look what
01:09:24i've done can you give me some praise please and then they move everything around and and they never
01:09:29stop and they're always terrorizing your building because they're constantly seeking intellectual
01:09:36gratification from attention and those are the opposite of the shy people why are you not focusing
01:09:41on them okay have you been around since the beginning of the show this the show today no
01:09:47i haven't i haven't but so hang on so just out of curiosity just out of curiosity when did you join
01:09:54the show i don't know five minutes ago ah are you kidding me so you're coming in and you're
01:10:02lecturing me on a show you heard about four percent of that's delightful that is absolutely
01:10:10delightful i appreciate that from the bottom of my soul so at the beginning of the show because i
01:10:15guess you weren't around you're arrogant enough to know the whole show because you heard a couple
01:10:19of minutes of a show that's been going on for an hour 10 or an hour 20 so at the beginning of the
01:10:25show i said i would like to talk about shy people and i'm going to talk about shy people in a very
01:10:30detailed way and that's going to be the topic of this monologue and now you barge in here saying
01:10:36why are you only talking about shy people well my friend the reason i'm talking about shy people
01:10:40is i announced at the beginning of the show that i'm going to be talking about shy people it's like
01:10:45if you go to a lecture where the guy says i'm going to be talking about diabetes and you're
01:10:49saying well what about pulled hamstrings huh why don't you talk about those and it's like
01:10:54that's just arrogant weird and rude
01:10:58yeah well i sort of i give you half that point yeah fair enough i don't see anything with shy
01:11:04here but whatever okay fair point okay so you still haven't answered the other question no hang
01:11:13on hang on hang on so you understand that you're wrong like you're saying why are you talking about
01:11:18shyness when i said at the very beginning of the show this is going to be a show about shyness
01:11:24i'm not wrong because i've answered your question about you giving explanations of shy people like
01:11:32you're talking about shy people who go to parties and then you're and then then you're using extreme
01:11:37examples of so-called people who are extreme anxiety can't do anything go even go to a party
01:11:42those are two different cohorts of people the people you're talking about are the people who
01:11:46in spite of being shy turn up to your party you're not talking about the extreme example you're using
01:11:51the extreme example to try and disprove my general statement about anxious people actually
01:11:56doing more work that's what you're using that for but the point is so how do you know sorry
01:12:02sorry just out of just out of curiosity how do you know that shy people being awkward in social
01:12:09situations is an extreme example and what's your definition of extreme because that's just not
01:12:16an extreme example it's not an extreme example you're you're calling people who want advice
01:12:23they're an extreme example to go against my generalization that anxious people do more work
01:12:29that's what that is but you're talking about shy people as freeloader right instead of them having
01:12:36personality traits so that implies that you think human nature is environmentally sensitive so much
01:12:44so that we can all just mold ourselves into reading christian science books like how to
01:12:49win friends and influence people socialites forever and win all of the attention we can want
01:12:56in spite of problems with your physiology and biology and whatever else that's what you're
01:13:01saying you're sorry this is this is a this is a truly wild example to me honestly i've never
01:13:07quite experienced this and i've been a public philosopher for close to 20 years this is just
01:13:11wild to me and and just so you know i mean there's lots of people listening and this will go out to
01:13:15the world so what you're doing is you're coming in having listened to a few minutes of an hour 10
01:13:21lecture and you're completely confident about everything i said you said what you said you are
01:13:30using a freeloader analogy are you not to talk about shy people being arrogant you have said that
01:13:37well that's one of the many things that i've said
01:13:41you don't reference any of the other things that i said but you can't because you just came in at
01:13:46the end i'm not you you said i can take parts of your argument and focus on parts
01:13:54well yes so are you saying because you're saying that i've said that uh everyone can just easily
01:14:02snap their fingers and change this this was sort of what you were saying if i understand
01:14:06which is not what i said that's what you've been implying yes no no you see you can't just take
01:14:10you can't just take your own fevered imagination and then say well i don't have to quote you i'm
01:14:14going to make up this magic word called implying that's not what i was implying in fact before you
01:14:20showed up to the conversation i had a long section on how difficult it was to change and how much work
01:14:25it was but it's possible so i'm encouraging people to learn social skills and gave a number of
01:14:32specific examples and paths through which people could improve their social skills so your argument
01:14:39is just false and listen i mean i understand this because i am a humble enough man that i don't
01:14:44barge into an hour 20 lecture having listened to a couple of minutes and assume that i know
01:14:48everything that was said because i'm just not that way inclined i have some humility and rationality
01:14:57no you don't because you would understand that people can bring forward direct arguments no
01:15:01matter what you're in the field of philosophy and arguing and you keep bringing in personal
01:15:07arguments and arguments of character and arguments no i brought in a counter example irrelevant you
01:15:13said you said you said stef you're implying that people can just change and and and so on and i'm
01:15:18like no i and that's not what i said right so you missed a whole section of what i said and now you're
01:15:23just saying well that's what i'm implying when it's the direct opposite of what i said so that's
01:15:27just arrogant you said you like that word arguing you said um that you can't entice things right but
01:15:35you know what syllogisms are and and and second you you do understand the definition of intelligence
01:15:41is your is your ability to uh have the abduction of perform the abduction of relations yeah
01:15:48abduction of relations is a fancy word for implication and inference or all the other
01:15:54types of inference as well so actual iq tests are built around your ability to infer and imply
01:16:02information right i know there are slightly different meanings so so things do implicate
01:16:07things an intelligent person reads what's not written that's the point of intelligence and i
01:16:14can't remember what my other point was i was going to say about shine so you're saying that like you're
01:16:20you're offering you've created like the psychological victim hero narrative where
01:16:25everyone's diagnosed with shyness and whatever this would psychologists do i'm not saying you
01:16:30just do that this is what psychologists do you've been to a lot of psychologists
01:16:33right so this is the whole industry of psychology it's like christianity christianity makes you feel
01:16:38you know original sin and here's how you get out of your original sin psychologist
01:16:42oh here's your personality deficiency you have narcissism and here's how to get out of it
01:16:46called behavioral therapy all this nonsense christian science methods turn you into a positive
01:16:51happy happy vacant person that's what psychology is right and you're trying to promise people
01:16:57that they if they work hard enough even in spite of their dna and their you know traits that they
01:17:02can still be sociable you're denying the fact or i don't know if you are denying fact but it sounds
01:17:07like you're denying the fact that there are people out there who just are shy and even if they work
01:17:12on it and they're not going to be socialized and third the hierarchy of socializing and the
01:17:19extreme competitiveness of people nowadays to compete for attention in our attention economy
01:17:24they're going to raise the bar and raise the bar so even the shy people they're they're they're
01:17:29canoeing uphill so their improvements are relative to the people who are naturally gifted at being
01:17:35extroverted sadly we're living in a culture of extroversion that's not very good and they're
01:17:39canoeing uphill against the tidal wave why the other people are are not even going uphill they're
01:17:45going downhill because it's in line with their genetic dna it's in line with who they are so
01:17:51every centimeter gained by the shy person and socializing there's going to be 50 meters gained
01:17:56by the the non-shy person so there's always going to be a relative a gap between them and you're
01:18:01saying that that they can overcome that always and and if they're shy uh either sawed off or
01:18:07working your social skills that's what you're saying yeah i mean i'm enjoying your monologue
01:18:13i don't know who you're talking to because this is not what i was saying but you wouldn't know that
01:18:17because you weren't here so you know you can have your monologue with your fantasy stuff but i i
01:18:22don't know how to respond because you didn't hear what i said and now you're telling me everything i
01:18:26said without even the humility of knowing that you weren't here to hear it i mean this is a wild
01:18:30thing to me and you know if you want to finish your monologue that's great are you are you saying
01:18:35everyone can work on their behavior that they can all be socialized
01:18:41i'm not sure what your question is are you saying that
01:18:44people can work to overcome hang on let me let me make sure i understand what you're saying
01:18:50do i think that people can improve negative or difficult characteristics about their personality
01:18:58well sure right so so everybody there's nobody out there so genetically shy that they can't
01:19:10be uh whatever you want them to be that they can't improve enough to be a socialite
01:19:16sorry i don't know what you mean by socialite here
01:19:20well people who are good at socializing well i may be not using the word in the right way but
01:19:25then what you're advocating for to have social says not be shy
01:19:28well no i i said to improve so to to give you and the audience an analogy
01:19:35everyone who doesn't exercise will likely improve their health by exercising but that doesn't mean
01:19:41that everyone is going to be an olympic athlete because there are some built-in aspects and used
01:19:45to say there's extroversion and introversion and so on right so my point is that if you want to
01:19:52socialize then you should learn some social skills does that mean you're going to be as smooth as
01:19:59butter well probably not so if i move to japan i should learn japanese will i speak it as well as
01:20:06somebody who grew up speaking japanese probably not but it's polite to to learn something about
01:20:13where you're going and to you know it so somebody can learn to improve their social skills they can
01:20:18learn to overcome their anxiety and as you say they can use their anxiety to improve you said
01:20:25people who feel their anxiety work harder to improve well that's great so i'm saying to people
01:20:30don't just accept your anxiety sit there like a lump distorting everybody else's social enjoyment
01:20:37work at figuring out how to socialize better right there's tons of books and and videos and and so on
01:20:43where where people can learn how to socialize better and it is a skill that can be taught i
01:20:47don't know if you've ever been to toastmasters but that is for people who are cripplingly shy
01:20:52at public speaking and at toastmasters people have flourished they have and of course i've
01:21:00seen people who've been really really shy pathologically shy you could say they call in
01:21:04maybe we have a couple of calls over the years and eventually they end up
01:21:09married and in a good community and so on so uh yeah i mean everyone can improve for sure it's
01:21:14like singing lessons right everyone can improve their singing with a couple of singing lessons
01:21:19but that doesn't mean that you're going to be pavarotti right because there is some physical
01:21:23substrate to these kinds of things so uh yeah i don't know what we're disagreeing about yeah
01:21:29okay okay so most people if they practice singing will be unbearable to listen to no
01:21:34matter how much they try because they don't have the ability to hear notes
01:21:38and then you've got problems are you saying that most people are tone deaf
01:21:41and a lot of people are going to be tone deaf yeah they're not going to have no you said most
01:21:46people are tone deaf even sorry did you say sorry sorry i just i'm just let me let me
01:21:51understand what you're saying because you're just using these phrases like i know what you're
01:21:54talking about and i don't are you saying most people are unbearable to listen to sing
01:21:59because they are tone deaf they don't understand notes right that's you're focusing in on a mic
01:22:08trying to understand what you're saying so is your argument that most people in the world
01:22:14cannot differentiate musical notes but you're changing the subject the point of the argument
01:22:20i'm asking for clarification i'm clarifying it i'm telling you the point of the argument here
01:22:27no i want to know the facts before we get if i don't agree with you on the facts what's the
01:22:33point of continuing like if i if you're mathematicians hang on let me just give you an
01:22:37analogy here so you understand how this works so if you're if you and i are both if you and i both
01:22:43hang on let me speak let me speak now let me speak it's my show you called in you are the receiver
01:22:49okay so if we're mathematicians and i say to you okay let's assume that two and two make five and
01:22:55go from there would there be any point continuing um if you can make a point no just answer the
01:23:06question i'm not asking you to agree with me but in this analogy if i say to you as a mathematician
01:23:12let's just assume that two and two make five and go from there would you go from there
01:23:18if he was making an overall point about something and it fitted in with the whole
01:23:24the forest then i would listen to it yes so you would continue an argument in mathematics
01:23:32on the premise that two and two make five
01:23:38not directly in maths but if he was using the maths as an analogy you like analogies analogies
01:23:44are not focused on truth so the point is i'll re-say what i'm saying lots of people are tone
01:23:51right no you said it's a slip of the tongue lots of people aren't it's important you can't you can't
01:24:00just make a statement and then challenge say oh it's just a slip of the tongue because if you're
01:24:05not careful about your statements how am i supposed to believe anything because it's irrelevant to the
01:24:10point the point is whether they're tone deaf or not whether every single person is tone deaf
01:24:16or whether no one is tone deaf most people empirically even when they try cannot sing
01:24:22and when we know that because we just listen to them and when they sing you want to shut them up
01:24:28and it's the same with everything the man who wants to learn japanese with a 65
01:24:32ir 60 iq has no chance there are people out there who just aren't capable and it's the same in the
01:24:39avenue of personality and this is even before we get into the fact that we are animals in a jungle
01:24:47and a zoo and a very destructive zoo at that right we are you're putting the responsibility
01:24:54on the people right we're living in an excessively extroverted culture of an attention economy
01:25:00right and and and you're saying that the problem is that the shy people and shyness has an
01:25:06evolutionary reason and purpose yeah all of the emotions are evolved and serve a purpose so so
01:25:16there's a reason to be shy there's a time to be shy there's a reason to be neurotic there's a
01:25:20reason for them all i'm not going to betray all that right but we're living in a very um
01:25:25strange system at the minute that only seems to value fast life history strategy personalities
01:25:32which is having low impulse control and be an extroverted and you're you're using this current
01:25:37system to diagnose shy people who have a very good function in this world especially if they
01:25:42evolved in an orphan hemisphere this is why finnish people are so shy right
01:25:51so uh the number of people who are tone deaf is very small just just so you know and it's
01:25:55funny thing is you you uh so you're saying most people know most people can sing i mean if you
01:26:00hear people humming i mean they don't sing particularly pleasantly they don't have a
01:26:03lovely tone they don't have great pitch in terms of of hitting the notes but most people if you
01:26:09listen to them hum or they sing happy birthday most people can carry a tune roughly and singing
01:26:15lessons will help with that or again you still need the physical substrate now with regards to
01:26:20shy people uh yes of course shy people can be perfectly functional and and great people and so
01:26:25on my issue is not with people being shy do you know what my issue is because you know what i'm
01:26:30saying right so what is my issue that i'm discussing in this live stream your issue is
01:26:38there are free loaders from what i gather and and that you're because you're extroverted or because
01:26:43you've read uh some christian science secular bishop science books about and appeasing people
01:26:50and being a i like to ask that you're somehow magical and doing all the work in a social setting
01:26:57okay so do you you you view me as an extrovert is that right
01:27:04i am i would say you're not naturally you seem like you're not a natural expert you've worked
01:27:09on it okay fantastic so as i said at the beginning of the broadcast which you weren't here for
01:27:15i was shy as a child and worked to overcome it and i was nervous in public speaking and worked
01:27:21to overcome it and so yes you can work to overcome these things and now maybe people don't end up
01:27:27as social as me that's fine but you can still work to improve my issue is with people who won't lift
01:27:34a finger to deal with their shyness but plunk themselves in the middle of social engagements
01:27:38and distort it and make it awkward and annoying for everyone else that is rude and people should
01:27:43work on their shyness and i don't think of this sort of batting eye shyness i think that is playing
01:27:47a victim and i think people have a lot more power to control how they manifest themselves in the
01:27:53world that they can in fact work to overcome shyness that doesn't necessarily mean that
01:27:57they'll become some massive extrovert or or whatever but you can at least learn the basics
01:28:03of how to interact if you want to engage in society if you want to have dinner parties and
01:28:08you want to get social engagements and you want people to invite you over then you need to make
01:28:14your presence comfortable and enjoyable for people of course right i mean if people don't find your
01:28:19presence enjoyable and comfortable then you won't be invited over now of course i did say of the
01:28:25people who are really shy and just work at home and stay in the rooms and don't particularly
01:28:30socialize that's fine that's not who i'm talking about i'm talking about and again you weren't here
01:28:33for this but you could have asked i suppose rather than jumping to conclusions i'm talking about the
01:28:39people who want to be invited places and want to partake in social good goodies but don't want to
01:28:47do the work to make their presence enjoyable for people but instead clog up the works make people
01:28:53feel awkward interfere with conversations and don't lift a finger to improve their social skills
01:28:58and i said of course i massively sympathize with people who've grown up that way because a lot of
01:29:03times it has to do with neglect or abuse and so on as children but my particular issue is with the
01:29:09people who want all of the goodness of social life but aren't willing to lift a finger to work at
01:29:15improving their social skills with all due sympathy for their childhoods but that is uh
01:29:21exploitive it's it's asking other people to do much more work right so if you have 10 people
01:29:27at a dinner party and this is something i mentioned right so if you have 10 people at a dinner party
01:29:32and one person doesn't show up it's pretty much okay if nine people don't show up it's kind of
01:29:38awkward right but if one person shows up who's really socially awkward laughs at the wrong things
01:29:44tells inappropriate jokes sits there you know half choked up with misery and stress and tension
01:29:48it messes up the entire dinner party and that's rude right so if you have a lack of social skills
01:29:54uh don't play the victim don't just say well i'm shy and that's just all i have to deal with but
01:29:58if you and if you if you are so cripplingly shy then stay home but if you want to go and
01:30:02partake in social events learn some social skills and there's a lot that you can do to improve
01:30:08now what in that what in that what in what i said do you disagree with
01:30:14um i mean it's hard to disagree with someone who's going to what there's what you're getting
01:30:21disagreement because you're using the word shy which is elastic and we all know shy people we
01:30:28like right so maybe you would be better to get rid of this agreement uh in saying that
01:30:35it's not shy people it's it's pathologically shy people or something but that doesn't really matter
01:30:40okay so hang on hang on you're saying hang on hang on so you're saying that you disagree
01:30:48with my use of the word shy and would prefer that i say pathologically shy
01:30:53no you say what you want i'm just saying i said you would prefer you disagree with the fact that
01:30:58it didn't insert the word pathologically in front of the word shy is that right not me personally
01:31:05i'm saying if you want less disagreement you're you're going to get less pushback if you if you
01:31:10say pathologically yeah well no i don't care what you say i'm talking to you i'm not talking to some
01:31:15vague abstract concept called disagreement so i'm just you know tell you how to have people enjoy
01:31:22conversing with you would be if you call in or you interrupt my my speech which again is fine
01:31:30so if you interrupt my speech and you don't know exactly how i'm using the word shy
01:31:36what do you think you might do instead of just going at me what do you think you might do if
01:31:41you're not sure how i'm using the word shy you're trying to put the responsibility on i'm asking i'm
01:31:48trying to help you here have a more positive interaction with people so i'm trying to help
01:31:52you how is it how is it okay so you're not going to answer the question so i'll answer it for you
01:31:57because i have really good social skills i'm answering it no i'm answering it okay you're
01:32:01treating this as some sort of seminar in university a left-wing seminar at that where people define
01:32:08concepts in terms like we're some uh you know magician with the ability to re-coin basic words
01:32:15we use in everyday speech you're using an everyday a colloquial word in a philosophical term
01:32:22and so anybody who's going to do that is is in without and expect not to be a disagree with
01:32:29is just i don't know there's no better word for it than silly because you're going to get
01:32:34disagreement if you're using basic words in this a very refined way then and that's why if you want
01:32:41to not let this agreement not me you're fantastic because i don't i don't know no i'm sorry i'm
01:32:47going to overtalk you because this is all nonsense okay so just so you because this this would be
01:32:52some basic humility and and rationality and i'm just going to be rude here because i'm tired of
01:32:56being polite you're a complete jerk and i'll tell you why because i very specifically defined what
01:33:02i was talking about with regards to shyness at the beginning of the goddamn broadcast
01:33:07you weren't here for it you didn't listen to how carefully i defined exactly the kind of shyness
01:33:15that i was talking about and then you have the unbelievable pig-headed immature arrogance
01:33:21to come into me and say the problem is that i haven't defined my terms when you didn't even
01:33:26show up to listen to the terms being defined now a nice person a reasonable person a person
01:33:32with a modicum of social skills would call me up and say Steph i'm so sorry man i wasn't here for
01:33:38the beginning of this lecture this monologue this philosophical examination i wasn't here
01:33:45for the beginning i'm confused can you tell me what you mean by shy right and then i would have
01:33:51been happy to go over what i meant by shy instead you come in and carpet bomb my broadcast with
01:33:57insults and gaslighting and nonsense without even saying huh maybe i shouldn't be a total jerk
01:34:05because i didn't show up for the definitions and then claim that Steph is not defined his terms
01:34:11i don't show up to the end of a movie and say this movie's bullshit because i don't know what's going
01:34:16on why because i have some social skills and if i don't show up until the last four percent of a
01:34:23lecture i don't then castigate people for not defining their terms without ever asking if maybe
01:34:29i missed something at the beginning where they did define their terms now i know you're not going to
01:34:34listen to this this is more for the audience as a whole but that's just fantastic like honestly that
01:34:40is like the fact that you'd be triggered when i was talking about people being rude is obviously
01:34:45i mean to everyone but you it's it's blindingly obvious and i really really do thank you for
01:34:51coming in to the conversation because that is just an example of just how arrogant and pig-headed
01:34:57and rude and obnoxious some people can be now the fact that you're triggered has to do with your
01:35:01childhood the fact that i don't know if you were beaten to death with christian science books or
01:35:04something you seem to have a hard-on for hating that book you repeated it like half a dozen times
01:35:10but you know you probably want to look into your own childhood and figure out why you react in
01:35:14these kinds of way and why you're so unpleasant enough putting to anybody with half a modicum
01:35:19of common sense so i'm going to not continue the conversation but i really do thank you
01:35:23for coming by it really was instructive and i was really hoping to get into a good
01:35:27debate but there was just too much uh immaturity and uh arrogance going on and it's a real shame
01:35:34it's a real shame it could have been a lot of fun all right well thanks everybody i am going to grab
01:35:38myself a little bit of a lunch i really do appreciate people coming by and i very much
01:35:42appreciate these flash live streams have yourself an absolutely wonderful wonderful day i will speak
01:35:47to you tomorrow night uh friday night live 7 p.m eastern you can join that at freedom.locals.com
01:35:54thanks everybody so much have a wonderful time bye yeah yeah i just wanted if anybody wanted a detox
01:36:02for this guy in particular he came in he could raise his hand and i did say allow to speak and
01:36:08then he comes in unmuted but there were like half a dozen people in the chat who were who didn't
01:36:13come in with that and they weren't interrupting you they were listening and so i didn't expect
01:36:17him and this is my failure i suppose i didn't expect him to unmute and interrupt you and just
01:36:22like come in blasting with that so that was fine it was fine yeah yeah yeah it was fine it was fine
01:36:29now i was just wondering if uh anybody else had any sort of comments or experiences that was a
01:36:34bit of a ugly flyby and i just wanted to make sure uh how everyone was doing and and all of that it
01:36:40was a bit of a heart pounder for me because uh he was uh he he reminded me of people in the past
01:36:46i'm afraid so i just wanted to see maybe it's just me but uh how how how was everybody else's
01:36:51experience of that little chitty chatty bang bang and don't forget to that's a very good way
01:36:57very good way to put chitty chatty bang bang it's a really great way of putting it
01:37:01oh my lord um yeah i mean i definitely had my heart pounding as well listening to that um
01:37:08it's just uh what a wild a wild sort of interrupt in this like and and this like
01:37:16no no no like as you're trying to speak it's a tone right i mean from the moment he opened his
01:37:21mouth it's just just a monologue are you gonna allow other people to speak and and you could
01:37:25feel that that uh temper right that that uh i wouldn't say rage but you could feel that that
01:37:31tension like from the very beginning right and it's just true how people they tell you who they
01:37:36are right away and based upon how it started it went exactly as i was expecting right right
01:37:49but yeah it is uh it was a wild thing and don't so to me there was some interesting
01:37:53things about it and i don't want to you know that this is here for you guys to talk if there's
01:37:57anything else that people wanted to mention about what they thought or experienced or
01:38:02or you know maybe how i handled it or you know i'm so obviously happy to get feedback about
01:38:05things i can do better or differently my my question would be i guess since you were in
01:38:12the middle of the monologue and i see someone come in like that uh who unmutes you know because
01:38:16they've been given permission hey he's interrupting shut down so it is your show and you're in the
01:38:21middle of the monologue and i could have definitely done that i'm just curious in terms of that oh
01:38:24like why i allowed him to no well no from my from my perspective i could have if i wanted to
01:38:31mute him immediately right and i didn't right so i'm just i'm just wondering you know it would
01:38:37that i'm sorry you not know why people buy tickets to mma okay okay okay i mean weren't you probably
01:38:45a little curious to see how this was gonna go fair enough fair enough um and and you did say
01:38:52at one point you were enjoying the conversation um i did yeah no it was really yeah it's really
01:38:56fun i mean i found it obviously i i got the rage that i experienced from the guy
01:39:03i got the intransigence i got the dysfunction right i got severe dysfunction and you know that
01:39:10level of punchiness like i could understand if i was talking about something really controversial
01:39:15but that level of punchiness over this kind of topic is really something so um the moment that
01:39:21he came in with this oh is this going to be a monologue or are you going to allow other people
01:39:26to speak i mean this is really uh quite aggressive right and i assumed of course because i'd asked you
01:39:32to let me know if people wanted to speak and i hadn't heard from you so i assumed that people
01:39:35were enjoying the speech which is fine but yeah if he wants to come in come in hot come in flaming
01:39:40uh let's let's do it and you know i do think it's nice for people to see how these kinds of
01:39:46conversations can go and also that people don't really change because he was complaining that
01:39:52people don't change and he wouldn't take any coaching right and people are just genetic and
01:39:58they are who they are what that means is he doesn't have any need or desire to improve in fact
01:40:02he would view improvement i assume is kind of insulting he also complained that i was using
01:40:05extreme examples and then he said well what about somebody with an iq of 60 who's trying to learn
01:40:11japanese i'm like oh that's not an extreme example 0.01 of the population or whatever it is right
01:40:17so no i thought i thought it was interesting and to me it's like let people talk you know clearly
01:40:22he was getting stuff off his chest and i loved his justification this was this was honestly it
01:40:28was delightful his justification as to why he could say i was implying things i don't know if
01:40:37you remember that it was really something so he missed most of the lecture he hallucinated a whole
01:40:43bunch of stuff he said and then he said well if you won't allow me to use use the magical word
01:40:48implying i'm going to use the magical word inference right so yes you can you can gather
01:40:56information from trends and statistics right for sure i get that i mean i've written a whole book
01:41:01on this called the art of the argument art the argument.com but you cannot assume facts not in
01:41:07evidence right so he can say well based upon what you're saying this would be a conclusion now first
01:41:15first of all of course inference is not proof right uh deductive reasoning is proof right
01:41:24all men are mortal socrates is a man therefore socrates is mortal that's 100 but inference
01:41:32is uh you know i uh for the last couple of years i've been really sad on my birthday
01:41:38i'll probably be sad this year well it's not proof it's just looking for trend so
01:41:44he tried to say that he could infer from my statements things that i hadn't said and therefore
01:41:53he could hallucinate and believe things at will now when i cut when i when i said well you can't
01:41:59just say in if that's an inference or you can't just say sorry what was the word he used imply
01:42:04yeah imply is like no what did i actually say right right so then he said well no but i can
01:42:10logically deduce from what you're saying your conclusions and that is not true like you can't do
01:42:18that in debates you can't just say well i'm going to take an inference based on incomplete information
01:42:30and assume it's absolutely true because it's not 100 proof but he took them as absolutely true
01:42:38and even if there was some kind of inference that could be made out of what i'm saying
01:42:42you still need to confirm right so if somebody makes an inference or somebody makes a statement
01:42:48and you want to infer something from it right then if somebody says capitalists are evil right
01:42:56okay is that a general statement or is that an absolute statement so you have to ask what
01:43:01meant by capitalists and what is meant by evil and is it 100 or just most people right
01:43:06so you need to find out what the parameters are right and if he says everyone who owns a business
01:43:14is evil okay then that's 100 i guess of people who own businesses are evil and then you can go
01:43:20from there but you can't you can't just say if somebody says capitalists are evil and you say
01:43:26oh so what you're saying is that every single person who owns a business is evil right so you
01:43:32can't just jump straight to the absolute certainty of deductive reasoning with in with uh inductive
01:43:39reasoning with probabilities right so it's the old thing of like uh if you had to bet
01:43:46you're sitting in a cafe right and you had to bet on whether the next male female couple
01:43:54that walked into the cafe you had to bet on whether the man was taller than the woman
01:43:58you would probably bet that the man would be taller than the woman right
01:44:02but that's not proof the only proof is when they walk through the door
01:44:06so when people get to certainty from inductive reasoning it's almost always a hallucination
01:44:13especially if they don't check with you first so he just went on these rambling monologues
01:44:19making all of these sort of wild or outrageous claims and then he said but you were implying this
01:44:25but he didn't check with me right and that's when i you know and that's why i said hey you just keep
01:44:30talking you're obviously having a conversation with yourself because it's not referencing anything
01:44:34i've said and so on so that's sort of one thing that i got out of it is to if people and then the
01:44:39thing is is like well you know i spent you know probably five or ten minutes at the beginning
01:44:43talking about exactly the kind of shyness that i was talking about and then he said well you
01:44:47didn't define the word shy with no consciousness i mean that's that's a wild thing to me and i
01:44:52don't understand this personality structure i really don't understand this personality structure
01:44:56and i'll get you to the wild thing at the end here the personality structure that says i missed
01:45:0195 of the lecture and i'm going to harangue the lecturer like that's wild right now what but what
01:45:09to me was even wilder though was this fellow said sounded scottish a little bit i don't know
01:45:16but this fellow said people who are anxious perform better right that was a big thing that
01:45:22he said i i remember that fairly clearly do i can i get a verification on that he said
01:45:27people who are anxious perform better and people who are confident perform worse
01:45:36do i do i get that i think what he said is it was people who are having sorry go ahead i think what
01:45:42he said is that the anxiety anxiety motivates people to do better i think that's okay so i
01:45:50think that's good yeah i appreciate it's good to be precise i think and and people who people
01:45:54who have but don't have the anxiety or have positive emotions or whatever exactly he was
01:45:57saying uh aren't motivated or something like that you know happy or whatever so he's saying
01:46:03that anxiety which is doubt anxiety makes people produce perform better right and he came in
01:46:12completely certain of everything that i'd said even though he'd only listened to four or five
01:46:18percent of the lecture so do you see how ironic that is he had no anxiety about being wrong about
01:46:26anything that i'd said and he says that anxiety makes people perform better but he didn't come
01:46:33in saying oh you know i i want to be certain about this i want to make sure i understand
01:46:36your definition so he came in with no anxiety and performed really badly and then says that anxiety
01:46:45makes people perform better do you see how disconnected that all is he's saying doubt
01:46:52makes people perform better and i'm absolutely certain of the contents of a lecture i only
01:46:58listened to four or five percent off i'm not sure if i'm getting this across because i can't see
01:47:04anyone but does that sort of make sense how completely disconnected that is
01:47:07is yeah because people do better on exams because they think they might fail right
01:47:15and he comes in having listened to only four percent of the lecture or five percent of the
01:47:21lecture and is completely certain that he's absolutely right about everything
01:47:26i'm sorry i'm getting a lot of background noise here on
01:47:31who's it from you know no that's no that's not sorry that's just me i've got another app that's
01:47:35just and because i'm recording the old system audio i'm just getting endless amounts of noise
01:47:39here it's nobody's fault but let me just make sure i find this app and get rid of it because
01:47:43it's bib dinking and those are tough to get rid of afterwards plus there's that
01:47:49so so that's to me wild so if he because if he genuinely believes that anxiety
01:47:55makes people perform better then he should be anxious about getting
01:48:01a lecture that he missed most of wrong does that make sense
01:48:06yeah yeah and i don't want to rush ahead no no go ahead more yeah so so he comes in
01:48:13being all kinds of certain which according to his theory means that he's going to fan
01:48:16right right he's definitely happy with his definitions he had no problems with his definition
01:48:20he was perfectly happy with his definitions which by his own definitions means he's wrong
01:48:26he's not putting the work in right and he's going to screw up isn't that wild that is amazing
01:48:33and that's the level of disconnect and that's why you just can't get anything across right
01:48:41this guy is a reason i don't go to parties very often so here's the thing too he also
01:48:47was of course triggered by me saying that you can improve your social skills right
01:48:52and i did strive to the best of my ability which you know i don't consider too bad a set of ability
01:48:57but basically uh i couldn't get across to him and it really was for the audience right
01:49:01and i said look i'm i'm trying to help you have people have a more positive experience
01:49:07of debating which is if you're not sure how i'm using a term you can ask me to define the term
01:49:14right so you would come in and you could say i'm not sure how you're using the word shy
01:49:21so can you define the word shy for me because i'm uncertain i'm anxious that i could be wrong
01:49:25but he wasn't anxious he was absolutely certain and very happy with his own projection which by
01:49:29his own i mean this is the wild thing i don't know why people don't notice this about themselves
01:49:33but it's pretty blindingly obvious on the outside i mean let me ask you this because
01:49:37maybe there's some people who was like yeah you get that stuff and i can understand that a little
01:49:41bit but was there anybody on the call who enjoyed his presence debates arguments and approaches
01:49:51in the conversation no of course not well and i was really you know he obviously is a punchy guy
01:49:59and and likes to debate and i think that's i mean i've no problem with that but i'm trying to sort
01:50:04of coach him a little bit on how to improve right and he's saying well some people are just this way
01:50:10genetically and they can't improve and you understand that this is not a theory everyone
01:50:14thinks these are things are theories this is not a theory this is his life so he says well
01:50:21personality characteristics i'm paraphrasing to some degree right some people can't improve
01:50:25and and they just can't get better and it's just they're hardwiring their genetics right
01:50:30so the funny thing of course is that he's trying to get me to improve right while saying people
01:50:36can't really improve but because he believes that i believe people can improve so i'm happy to have
01:50:41the conversation he doesn't believe people can improve or at least there's some people who can't
01:50:46improve and he's one of them so he says shy people can't improve their social skills and or some
01:50:54people can't improve their social skills and he's you know a belligerent uh gaslighting derisive
01:51:01insulting uh debater right attacker right it really wasn't a debate it was just
01:51:06verbal insults masquerading as well psychological damage masquerading as verbal insults masquerading
01:51:12as a debate so i'm trying to tell him here's how you can have more enjoyable engaging debates
01:51:17because there's nobody who debates with that guy who wants to debate him again right and so he's
01:51:22not getting what he wants which is people to debate with and i was sort of trying to help him
01:51:27get that could have been a great conversation but um when i when i rephrase so there's two
01:51:33things one is that when i said what was my question so the reason i asked that i'm not
01:51:37trying to humiliate anyone it's just that when you ask someone a direct question and i think
01:51:42the question was because he was saying all the people who are anxious do better in exams like
01:51:46yeah i get that of course that makes sense to me because if you're anxious you'll study more
01:51:52and therefore you'll probably do better on the exam i'm yeah anxiety and and nervousness and
01:51:56so on can be an absolute boon to uh to stressful tasks because it has you prepare i mean i've said
01:52:03this i've been a public speaker for a long time off and on i guess more often on these days and
01:52:10even when i have like a 10 or 15 minute speech i'll rehearse it for days days
01:52:18now is that anxiety yeah to some degree right i i sort of mentioned this a while ago i made
01:52:25a choice to sing in public to an audience and i worked on that song for weeks weeks
01:52:34because you know you just the anxiety is you come in at the wrong time you hit the wrong note you
01:52:38just get screwed up and you know that's bad right so i just wanted to make sure it was so automatic
01:52:43in me that i could do it in my sleep and it went off well and it all worked out so i i fully
01:52:50understand that anxiety helps you improve for sure but it doesn't so the so i asked him how
01:52:58does the study capture people who were so anxious they don't show up right because you're by
01:53:05definition if you're measuring people on an exam who are anxious so by definition if you're if
01:53:11you're asking people who've taken an exam how anxious were you you're capturing the people
01:53:17to whom their anxiety has been a benefit so then saying to people saying well this study shows that
01:53:23anxiety is a benefit when you only test the people for whom it is a benefit is not a full
01:53:30sample so i said well how does it capture the people who were too anxious to even take the
01:53:33course to show up and the answer is of course it can't now what you could do maybe if you wanted
01:53:40to do a study like that is you could capture all the people say who started a course and then you
01:53:49know in some engineering and physics courses like half or even two-thirds of the course drop of the
01:53:54class drops out and you could say to people why did you drop out and some of them would say i i
01:54:02was stressed i was anxious i couldn't sleep and it was horrible right and so their stress would
01:54:07cause them to drop out and that would be a way of capturing the people to whom stress so i mean
01:54:12that's just an interesting question right how do you capture people who fail to thrive because of
01:54:16anxiety rather than just capturing the people who excel because of anxiety and because anxiety
01:54:21exists on a bell curve right i mean too little is the aristotelian mean too little anxiety and
01:54:25you're this guy too much anxiety and you're paralyzed right so you want to find the sweet
01:54:30spot and i was just asking people to move up move down their anxiety so that they can socialize
01:54:35better so the reason i ask him is that i obviously because he was over talking me so much
01:54:42i was concerned that he was just there to kind of spur again his emotional upset or whatever right
01:54:48and so when i ask him a question and he goes off on a tangent and i do this in call-in shows too
01:54:55to try and figure out how dissociated people are right so i said do you remember the question i
01:55:00asked you when he's like well i'm answering it i'm like okay well if you're answering it you
01:55:04should remember what it is right and i and it's like oh now you're trying to humiliate me and it's
01:55:08like no i'm just want to check that you remember because if somebody's really triggered and
01:55:13dissociated they won't even remember your question they're so upset and i think he was upset very
01:55:20upset and wasn't aware of it was sort of self-righteous in this kind of way and of
01:55:26course i can sympathize with the kind of childhood that would lead someone to be like that but of
01:55:30course i have less sympathy when they acted out in public against the innocent i mean i've never
01:55:34harmed the guy and here he is saying that i'm slandering people and lying and you know whatever
01:55:38uh egregiously wrong and i don't know whatever happened with that christian science thing but
01:55:44yeah so i ask people to find out how dissociated they are are they present in the conversation
01:55:51are they listening or are they triggered now if people are triggered they can't remember your
01:55:58question and that's it's important to gauge that in just about any kind of conversation
01:56:06it's important to gauge is somebody actually listening to you and of course i think it was
01:56:10pretty clear that he was running his own agenda and he was wanting to be right and he was triggered
01:56:15by something and you know obviously had some bad experiences in life and i'm not sure anybody
01:56:20particularly enjoys his company so i think i think also what happened was when i talk about
01:56:27improvement right so if you can think of somebody who's you know they've allowed themselves to get
01:56:33to be like 400 pounds right and then i talk about preventing weight gain and dealing with weight and
01:56:38so on they're going to get triggered right they're going to be angry and upset because they know they
01:56:42fail to do what they need to do to be healthy and so if somebody's acting in a situation like they
01:56:48have no free will and you start reminding them of free will they're going to get triggered and
01:56:51aggressive to put it in a even deeper and more precise way and this is purely theory i don't
01:56:56know the guy of course but what would fit the facts would be that he had very abusive parents
01:57:03and his abusive parents don't want people to like him because that way he stays isolated and doesn't
01:57:09have allies against their abuse who can point out how abusive they are so they've filled him full of
01:57:14all his vitriol so that he keeps people at a distance so he remains isolated and so nobody
01:57:22sympathizes with him and thus exposes whatever appalling acts his parents inflicted upon him
01:57:29that would be sort of the most precise way to put it and again i don't know it would fit the facts
01:57:34because i mean nobody wakes up in the morning and says i'm just going to be horrible today
01:57:42i'm just going to be nasty i'm going to interrupt someone i'm going to insult him
01:57:45i'm going to not listen i'm going to gaslight i'm going to avoid the topic right
01:57:50he is mined there's a moat around this kind of personality which is you can't get close
01:57:58because the people who've abused this guy as a kid don't want anyone to get close
01:58:04so that their corruption immorality is not revealed and the more the corruption and immorality
01:58:14corruption and immorality the more people are mined against contact towards others
01:58:22and the more bad habits are inflicted on them and that they indulge because someone like this you
01:58:29know i mean you can't get close to someone like that because they're just going to twist and change
01:58:33and redirect and gaslight and redefine and project and like this it is like trying to dance with fog
01:58:39you can't so then the question is given that connection and intimacy is a great and deep
01:58:44pleasure in life why would somebody choose this well of course the answer is nobody would choose
01:58:48that nobody would choose to be that difficult and unpleasant to deal with so it doesn't benefit him
01:58:57as a human being to be like that you know i mean it's funny because you know people have these
01:59:02kinds of interactions and they come across occasionally right and i i don't mind them i
01:59:06think they're great right but and then you know i go back to my you know loving family and my great
01:59:11job and my my good friends and you know it's like a minor stain on the day that was actually quite
01:59:16instructive and i don't know what do they go back to right so if it doesn't benefit him to be this
01:59:22unpleasant and difficult who does it benefit well it must benefit someone else and so why would
01:59:28people want to keep this guy away from everyone else well because there are crimes to be uncovered
01:59:37and if he gets close to people they might be uncovered so this is a lot of storm and fury
01:59:42to cover up parental crimes i mean just so everyone knows what's going on deep down he's not
01:59:48in control of his own personality he is possessed or inhabited by highly abusive parents who don't
01:59:56want him to get close to anyone and so when i'm talking about improving your social skills
02:00:01and i'm talking about getting close to people then this triggers the parental alter egos
02:00:08to attack and to ridicule and to drive people away from this direction because as a collective it's
02:00:15not just individual there's a collective abusive parents work very hard on the consciousness of
02:00:20humanity to make sure that people experience negative things and and difficulties and and so
02:00:25on so yeah i mean i just basically view him as a puppet of people who probably committed some
02:00:29pretty egregious crimes against him as a child and that's just him keeping her back now of course
02:00:34people will say well that's just psychologizing and so on it's like but there's nothing else to
02:00:37do because there was no substantive points that were this is what i said to him after i defined
02:00:41my terms i said what do we disagree with what do we disagree on right and then it was silly things
02:00:47like most you know people can improve their singing if they take singing lessons right and
02:00:52he's like well there are some people who are tone deaf and it's like what that's very rare
02:00:58that's very rare for people to be tone deaf and uh and and it's sort of like saying and i said most
02:01:04people can improve with exercise it's like well what about someone in a coma it's like well even
02:01:08they improve from having their limbs moved and i think that's kind of what they have to do
02:01:11so um this is another way that you know that people are triggered is that any general statement
02:01:21they make any general statement you make they will find an exception
02:01:24and think that they've disproven something right now when it comes to
02:01:30uh deductive reasoning you you have right so all men are mortal okay if you find one
02:01:36man who's immortal then that is proven false right so so then so so then what you do is you
02:01:44treat inductive reasoning the same as deductive reasoning and you see this all the time on the
02:01:48internet i found a counterexample right and this is why there used to be something called it's the
02:01:52exception that proves the rule right it's like yeah i know a couple where the woman is six inches
02:01:59taller than the guy and it's like well yeah you remember that and it stands out because it's such
02:02:02an exception you remember it it's the exception that proves the rule you remember it because it
02:02:06is so unusual and so what happens is they any general statement you make they will find one
02:02:14counterexample and think they've disproven it and then when you met when they make a general statement
02:02:23and you say when he says most people are tone deaf and that's just false i mean that's just
02:02:30most people are not tone deaf so then he says well i just misspoke right but that's important
02:02:36because then then it's like well you're just nitpicking and it's like well no if you make a
02:02:40statement that's false and i point that out the reason i point that out is because it is a false
02:02:47statement to say that most people cannot recognize different notes that's a specific brain disorder
02:02:51actually so most people cannot recognize specific notes is a very tiny minority of people otherwise
02:02:57there wouldn't be a music industry really right so so if he says most people can't recognize notes
02:03:05that's a false statement right and and if he's not careful about his statements in other words
02:03:11if he'll say something that's false and doesn't even notice that it's false and then gets annoyed
02:03:16at me when i point out that his statement is false it means he has no commitment to the truth right
02:03:22and knowing people is he committed to winning is he committed to victory is he committed to
02:03:28spurging on his emotions or is he committed to getting to the truth
02:03:34now if if someone says most people are tone deaf which is a false statement if somebody says that
02:03:42and i say wait sorry you're saying that most people are tone deaf then he would say oh you
02:03:47know what i completely misspoke thank you that's completely false i'll withdraw that sorry about
02:03:51that right as opposed to oh you're just nitpicking or i misspoke or like getting aggressive about it
02:03:56so if somebody says something that's false and you point it out and they get annoyed
02:03:59then they're not interested in the truth right didn't know interest in the truth and finding
02:04:03people who are willing to put ego aside and and pursue the truth no matter where it leads is very
02:04:07rare and i mean obviously this wasn't one of those people and again i have a lot of sympathy for what
02:04:14happened to him as a kid i think he's not acting he's not acting in the best way possible given
02:04:19whatever happened to him as a kid and you know if he ever hears this he's certainly welcome to have
02:04:22a call-in show and sort of get to the bottom of what's going on but uh yeah and and you know then
02:04:27he's insulting me he's insulting my monologue he's insulting all my callers by saying oh they're just
02:04:32playing the victim and like it's just wild this this scattershot is another example of some pretty
02:04:37chaotic levels of aggression that's just that there's like nothing you won't stoop to to win
02:04:41and nobody you won't insult and then you claim to be this is very typical too right people who
02:04:46verbally abuse others or verbally attack others uh then say that well i'm just slandering all shy
02:04:52people like and i did point this out it's like oh you're kind of insulting everyone and now you're
02:04:56very very sensitive to slander it's almost inevitable in a way right so so yeah i was uh
02:05:02i appreciated the convo i thought it was a good workout i was having a nice hike and i got a
02:05:06little extra cardio in from from this guy but uh yeah i mean those they are pretty dangerous people
02:05:12in the world and not dangerous because they're unpleasant to debate with but because um they can
02:05:17be quite aggressive and it's hard to know whether aggression can end all right is there anything
02:05:22else that anybody wanted to say yeah you can just put this guy in a scenario so you're throwing the
02:05:28party you finally have the shy guy there and then this guy jumps into the conversation and pushes
02:05:34the shy guy back home oh and you're done well yeah he was saying he was saying about how
02:05:40how there were histrionics who just jumped in and dominated the conversation
02:05:45i'm like really how bad is that do you think you want to grab a mirror and see if you can find one
02:05:53all right anything else uh yeah i just uh i think well one thing i'm right two things but uh
02:06:01yeah just in terms of like self-improvement and uh you know when you've had pretty serious abuse i
02:06:06think i have mentioned this uh before i think i mentioned live stream when i was looking to lose
02:06:11the weight you know there was a lot of pushback internally because you know my parents want you
02:06:16know would want me to not you know be healthy to not find people to be insecure about they don't
02:06:23want you to have someone in your life who cares about you because then they'll cast some squinty
02:06:27eyes at your parents right yeah exactly exactly yeah so i was like yep i've definitely experienced
02:06:33that and it's it's tough but you do it because what's the alternative you as you said um in the
02:06:38live stream last night you dishonor the uh the i'm sorry did you say today i was today was
02:06:45dishonoring the inner child by using their suffering as your excuse yeah that was and that
02:06:50was fantastic i just want to say that was also really fantastic yes it was wasn't it i'm going
02:06:54to agree with you yes sometimes the lady strikes the spinal cord and that was one of those times
02:06:59yeah yeah yeah and i thought i had a second thing but that's okay it's it's important i'll come up
02:07:06good good well i'm glad the guy came by i always wonder how how people get like who how people who
02:07:12would like this end up coming in and i don't know it's wild it was a really wild interaction and
02:07:17there's a lot to unpack and i'm glad we got a chance to chat about it afterwards because sometimes
02:07:22if you don't unpack it it can leave a bit of a lingering sour taste so all right well listen i'll
02:07:27get back to regularly scheduled fdr work and i really do appreciate everyone dropping by today
02:07:31it was a great pleasure james thanks so much for taking some time and uh managing and shepherding
02:07:36this stuff and i guess i'll talk to everyone tomorrow night take care bye