Acharya Prashant interviewed by Kip Andersen (#Seaspiracy) || Religion and animals

Acharya Prashant

‍♂️ Want to meet Acharya Prashant? Be a part of the Live Sessions: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/enquir...   Want to read Acharya Prashant's Books? Get Free Delivery: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/books?...  ~~~~~  Video Information: An interview with Kip Andersen on Veganism, 29.03.2017, Advait Bodhsthal, Noida, India   Context: ~ What are various view of religions? ~ What is veganism? ~ Why should one stop consuming eggs and milk? ~ Why do human cause cruelty and extreme harm to animals? ~ Why non-vegetarianism is prevalent throughout the world? ~ Why should one head towards a vegan lifestyle?  Music Credits: Milind Date  ~~~~~ .

Transcript

00:00Can we discuss how religion and animals come to play and things that you like to talk about

00:11with how animals are treated and things that you like to share with people when you talk

00:17about animals and say religion and things with Hindus. Can you share things?

00:29When you say religions, just for the sake of the conversation, I would want to divide

00:43them into two streams, one the Abrahamic stream and the other, the Indian one. So the

00:56Judeo-Christian view is that God has dominion over man and man has dominion over animals.

01:14Something similar also comes up in the third Abrahamic religion, Islam, which talks about

01:25Allah having created all the animals, fish, insects for the sake of man. And then there

01:39is the view of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, which talk of ahimsa, ekat, which

02:00is non-violence, oneness. But I'm not really convinced that when we use the word religion,

02:22we must really talk of the view that organized religions take of this matter. The moment

02:40religion is organized, it becomes something man-made. So I take your question to mean

02:53that we want to talk about religion, religion as such. Man, animals, man's inner world and

03:08man's relationship with the so-called outer world, including animals. So there is man

03:21and man lives according to himself in this so-called universe, this universe that appears

03:31to him through his senses. There is no other way man perceives the universe. He perceives

03:38it through his senses and he interprets it through his reason, through his intellect

03:48and through his knowledge and memory. Now, how does man relate with the world? How does

04:05man know what to do, how to approach, how to touch, how to live, how to eat, how to

04:18talk, how to connect? That to me is the essence of religion. Man's relationship with himself

04:29and the world. That is religion and that is also the essence of all organized religions.

04:39Hence, I find it more beneficial to talk about religion itself than the various organized

04:47religions. I have named just six in the course of this talk. But as you of course know, there

04:56are hundreds of them and it would be more useful to directly go into the one rather

05:05than the hundreds and get lost in the maze. That's not very useful. So, man's relationship

05:16with the universe. See, how do I look at anything, anybody? Depends on how do I look

05:32at myself. If there is a pool of water and I am playful, then the pool of water is hope

05:48for me. If there is a pool of water and I have a phobia of water, then the pool of water

06:03is danger for me. If there is a pool of water and I am thirsty, then the pool of water is

06:14physical sustenance and survival for me. So, depending on who I am and depending on

06:26what my concept is, self-concept and self-worth, I take a view of the world. Now, if I am someone

06:38who is always feeling incomplete within himself, if I am someone who exists in order to take

06:53something, snatch something, extract something from the universe in order to fulfill himself,

07:02then my view of the universe will be very utilitarian, rather exploitative. So, there is that

07:13little squirrel there. Even as we talk, she is there with her tail up. How do I look at her?

07:22I could look at her as food if hunger is what I most identify with. I could look at her as a

07:34companion. Whatever is the form she takes for me is very, very intimately related to the form

07:48that I have assigned to myself. The squirrel will disappear in a while and she has indeed

07:54disappeared. She is no more there. She is all with herself somewhere. The squirrel will disappear,

08:04but that which I carry as myself will not. I will carry it. I will keep carrying it.

08:15If I am feeling incomplete, that incompletion will remain irrespective of the temporal presence

08:24and disappearance of anything outside of me. If I always feel hollow and hungry, then everything

08:37in the universe is but a resource for me. I will want to exploit the man, the woman, the tree,

08:47the rock, the child, the animal, just everything. The extent to which I can exploit would depend

08:57on my power. And because to me, this exploitation is itself a very important value in life,

09:14so I value myself according to my ability to exploit. The more I can exploit, consume,

09:31plunder and hoard, the more I take myself to be. I am bigger if I can exploit more.

09:46I am higher, I am more worthy, more respectable if I can draw more from the universe.

09:52If everything that I have collected as resources, as usables, are bigger, more numerous,

10:09more in utility. If that is how I value myself and I respect myself, then outside of me also,

10:24I will have value only for that which can exploit. Now to exploit, as a human being,

10:34you require the intellect. Animals outside of me do not have that, at least not in the same way

10:44as human beings have. Their consciousness does not proceed on the same basis of rationale

10:54as a human being's does. Their capacity to exploit is far more limited, even assuming

11:03that they might have an intention to exploit, which as per me, really either does not exist

11:11or is extremely limited. So if I value myself according to my capacity to exploit,

11:19I will not value the one outside me who cannot exploit, who does not have the intellect

11:25or the intention to exploit. So there will be very little respect for the chirping bird.

11:30For I can respect her only if she has power. Because I respect myself only when I have power.

11:40Some kind of power, power of knowledge, power of wealth, power political, power social,

11:47any kind of power. The bird outside of me appears to have so little power, so it is laughable.

11:56I can go pick her up, do whatever I want to do with her.

12:06If this is how man relates with animals, then man is saying that everything that limits him is valuable.

12:28We are on the issue of religion. So we have to go into that which we call as an immensity, as God.

12:42Now man is proud of his intellect. All exploitation proceeds on that.

12:50And in fact, one of the reasons why animals are taken as fit for exploitation is that

12:59they really are not rational beings. So it is said that we can do as we want to do with them

13:10because they are lesser beings. Having an intellect, does it really make man superior to animals?

13:24Yes, of course, the dog cannot read. Yes, of course, the dog cannot comprehend our books and our knowledge.

13:34But if all reading and all knowledge is for the sake of peace, is for the sake of a great silence,

13:50then please tell me whether man's intellect and knowledge are indeed able to deliver the goods.

14:02Knowledge is limited, intellect is limited, knowledge always consists of objects and every object has a boundary.

14:12If the purpose of life and if the purpose of religion, because we are on the issue of religion,

14:18and if the purpose of religion is to be one with God, then the purpose of religion is to drop all that which is limited because God is unlimited.

14:33As long as you identify with that which is limited, there is no question of unity with God.

14:42Intellect is limited and intellect prevents man from closeness with God.

14:52You cannot intellectualize your way to silence.

14:59I want to now ask, what is closer to goodness and godliness?

15:07Man's intellect or the simple innocence of animals?

15:12Now we have come to a point where we can also look more sharply at the view that man is superior to animals and that man has dominion over animals.

15:25I have repeatedly said this and would repeat once again, is man really superior to animals?

15:39If God stands for innocence, then animals are closer to God.

15:47If God stands for a simple surrender to the flow of life, then animals are closer to God.

15:56If God stands for a basic ability to trust, then animals are closer to God.

16:09If God stands for a relation that is deeper than verbal communication, a heartfelt communion, then again animals are closer to God compared to man.

16:30But man will live in his self-centered consciousness.

16:34Man will say that my greatest asset is my intellect because it helps me do a lot of things with the world.

16:44And if man's greatest asset is his intellect, then man will always look at animals as not only inferior but also just things to be had.

17:02And he will look at not only animals that way, he will look at everything that way.

17:07If you are a man, you will exploit a woman, you will exploit a river, you will exploit everything that you come across.

17:14If it were in your power, you would go and exploit the entire galaxy.

17:20What do you say to people who say that it's similar to take a plant and eat a plant, and it's the same to eat an animal because a plant has a soul, a plant has spirit, and an animal doesn't.

17:48What do you say to people who say that?

18:19We talked about intellect.

18:23Man's basic violence starts from agriculture itself, organized agriculture itself.

18:35When man started utilizing and exploiting plants, it is one thing to be one with a plant, to be a part of its ecosystem and take something from it.

18:53And it is a totally different thing to cultivate a plant. The way a squirrel or a monkey connects to a plant or a tree is very different from the way a farmer connects to his crop.

19:11So someone who does not want to look at the universe as a resource will not want to kill or consume anything.

19:32And when I say consume, I mean consume in a violent way.

19:42There is enough that a tree offers. There is enough that comes to us from plants and trees, even if we do not kill them.

19:56In fact, if you see, when a fruit drops from a tree, the tree in some way wants that the fruit be consumed.

20:14When you pick up the fruit, when you consume it, the seeds actually get spread through you.

20:24You are being one with the plant, you are actually fulfilling the tree's wish.

20:32If you do not pick up the fruit and eat, then it is not a favor to the tree, then it is indifference.

20:43The moment I say this, the question of feeding the 8 billion people of the world immediately crops up.

20:54And hence this view will appear as impractical.

20:58This appears as impractical only if, first of all, you are centered around the view that the earth must have 8 billion people, 8 billion human beings.

21:19These 8 billion human beings exist only because they have taken a path that is not really the path of the heart.

21:37Otherwise, nature knows what is the right number, the right cap on the existence of any species.

21:57This man can exist even without harming trees and plants, let alone animals.

22:13It is possible, but that will be a totally different kind of humanity.

22:21And I am pretty sure that when man lives that way, then to sustain 8 billion people in that way will not be possible.

22:35You may immediately retort that this way is then very very difficult.

22:47I would say it is very valuable.

22:50It is very valuable because as far as life is concerned, it is not the numbers that count.

22:57Something else is far more important than numbers.

23:00That particular silence in being, that particular love in relationships, that particular peace, be it a plant, be it an animal, be it a human being, the exploitative mind is the same.

23:34No part of this recording may be reproduced

23:37without Mooji Media Ltd.'s express consent.

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