Bob Latta Chairs House Energy And Commerce Committee Hearing On FCC FY2025 Budget

2 months ago

On Tuesday, Rep. Bob Latta (R-OH) chaired a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing on the Federal Communications Commissions FY2025 budget request.

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Transcript

00:00:00Good morning.

00:00:15The subcommittee will come to order and the chair recognizes himself for an opening statement.

00:00:20Good morning and welcome to today's oversight hearing of the Federal Communications Commission.

00:00:26This is the third time we've had the FCC before us as Congress, and I'm pleased that we are

00:00:30maintaining a cadence of consistent oversight hearings.

00:00:33I want to first by start, once again, offer our condolences to the chairwoman for the

00:00:40loss and passing of your father.

00:00:43We hope that your memories of him have helped you cope during this very difficult time.

00:00:48And although we can disagree on policy, we can come together to share each other's grief.

00:00:52So on behalf of the committee, once again, we're very sorry about his passing.

00:00:57The last time the FCC was before us, we discussed its role in President Biden's broadband takeover

00:01:02and its over-regulation of the communications industry.

00:01:05Unfortunately, the agency has continued down this path.

00:01:09Earlier this year, the FCC voted to reclassify broadband as a common carrier under Title

00:01:14II of the Communications Act under the guise of net neutrality.

00:01:19This action expands the FCC's authority over broadband along the agency to impose burdensome

00:01:24regulations that will make it harder for providers to deploy broadband.

00:01:30As I have stated before, this action is absolutely unnecessary.

00:01:34In 2017, after the FCC reversed the Obama-FCC's reclassification of broadband, the Democrats

00:01:41told the world that we would get the Internet one word at a time and that the Internet as

00:01:45we knew it would end.

00:01:47As we all know, none of these true fears came true.

00:01:50In fact, the day after the order was going in on rescinding it, I asked my office to

00:01:56keep track of how many of my constituents called in after the repeal to say they'd lost

00:02:01their Internet.

00:02:02And I received zero calls.

00:02:04Instead, broadband networks thrived because of increased investment by private companies

00:02:10that has led to higher speeds and lower prices.

00:02:12Indeed, our networks survived the ultimate test when they withstood increased usage as

00:02:17a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, when almost every aspect of everyday life went online.

00:02:25Contrast what happened in the United States to what happened in Europe, where regulators

00:02:28had to ask websites like YouTube and Netflix to throttle and degrade services to withstand

00:02:34the increased demand.

00:02:36At our last hearing, the Chairwoman attributed our success to states enacting their own net

00:02:40neutrality policies, but that can be further from the truth.

00:02:44The Internet continued to function normally between the repeal and the states enacting

00:02:47their own laws.

00:02:48Only a few states acted, and none enacted anything close to the utility-style regulations

00:02:54that the FCC repealed and is now reimposing.

00:02:57The true source of success for our networks is the light-touch regulatory framework that

00:03:01the FCC just moved away from.

00:03:04This action is just one of the many taken by the FCC to hinder U.S. leadership in technology.

00:03:09The effect of these decisions is that deploying broadband and providing service will be more

00:03:14challenging for providers.

00:03:16These actions cannot come at a worse time.

00:03:18Congress provided $42.5 billion to close the digital divide.

00:03:24The Commission is undermining that effort by imposing regulations that will make it

00:03:28more expensive and more burdensome to deploy when they should be doing the opposite.

00:03:33I urge the FCC to reverse course and restore the light-touch regulatory environment that

00:03:37allowed broadband investment to thrive.

00:03:40I have many questions about the direction the Commission is taking.

00:03:43I thank the Commissioners for being here today, and I look forward to discussing this and

00:03:48these other very important questions that will come before the Commission.

00:03:52And I will yield back the balance of my time and now recognize the ranking member of the

00:03:57subcommittee, my colleague, the General Lady from California's 7th District, for her opening

00:04:02statement.

00:04:03Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:04:04And Madam Chairwoman, I, too, offer my deepest condolences upon your loss.

00:04:09Today's hearing comes at a critical moment as the FCC must tackle challenges with far-reaching

00:04:15impacts on U.S. consumers and competitiveness.

00:04:18I am glad that this FCC has taken needed steps to expand broadband connectivity, deliver

00:04:24on net neutrality, and strengthen cybersecurity, among other urgent priorities.

00:04:30I am especially excited about the FCC's recently announced Cybersecurity Pilot Program for

00:04:35schools and libraries.

00:04:37Cyberattacks on our schools are only growing in frequency and sophistication.

00:04:41From 2016 to 2022 alone, our K-12 schools suffered over 1,600 cyberattacks.

00:04:49According to the GAO, every cyberattack cost school districts tens of thousands and even

00:04:54up to millions of dollars.

00:04:56That's why I introduced the Enhancing K-12 Cybersecurity Act to improve school access

00:05:01to cybersecurity resources and nationwide tracking of K-12 cyberattacks.

00:05:07That's also why I have long urged the FCC to modernize cyber tools for schools.

00:05:12By adopting a pilot program, the FCC has taken a positive step toward improving K-12 cybersecurity

00:05:20and I look forward to continuing to work with you on this issue.

00:05:24Whether it's cybersecurity or other challenges, we know we have more work ahead of us.

00:05:29As a subcommittee, we should be building up the FCC's ability to protect consumers and

00:05:34oversee our networks.

00:05:36The stakes are simply too high for Congress to undermine the FCC's progress.

00:05:42That's why this subcommittee and Congress must push forward on the unfinished work before

00:05:46us and fully empower the FCC to do its job.

00:05:50First, millions of American families are counting on Congress to keep them connected, yet as

00:05:56of last month, the Affordable Connectivity Program ran out of funds.

00:06:01That means more than 23 million households nationwide have lost the support they need

00:06:05to access affordable, high-quality broadband.

00:06:10The end of the ACP puts our low-income families at risk.

00:06:13According to an FCC survey, over two-thirds of ACP households reported having inconsistent

00:06:20or zero connectivity before ACP.

00:06:24We can't afford to take a leap backwards and request to close the digital divide.

00:06:30That is why I and more than half of the House support the ACP Extension Act.

00:06:35Similarly, we can't afford to leave unsecured Chinese gear in our communications networks.

00:06:41Congress must resolve the funding shortfall for the Rip and Replace Program to ensure

00:06:46we can remove every piece of vulnerable equipment from American networks.

00:06:50Earlier this month, the FCC reported that nearly 40 percent of Rip and Replace funding

00:06:56recipients said they can't finish replacement work without full funding for the program.

00:07:04These providers are at risk of shutting down their networks or withdrawing from the Rip

00:07:08and Replace Program.

00:07:10This is unacceptable.

00:07:11We must act to curb this risk to our consumers and national security.

00:07:16I am committed to keeping ACP and Rip and Replace funded.

00:07:20Let's work together to ensure these critical bipartisan programs do not fall by the wayside.

00:07:26And finally, I want to briefly discuss another urgent matter, renewing the FCC's Spectrum

00:07:32Auction Authority.

00:07:33I know I'm not the only member of the subcommittee frustrated by how, more than a year later,

00:07:38the FCC is still hamstrung in its ability to drive innovation through a healthy spectrum

00:07:43pipeline.

00:07:45At a time when the FCC is renewing focus on 6G and other innovative technologies that

00:07:51rely on spectrum, we can't afford delay.

00:07:54We need the FCC fully empowered with auction authority and the federal government working

00:07:59to advance a unified U.S. spectrum position on the global stage.

00:08:04With that, I want to thank the Chairwoman and Commissioners for appearing before us

00:08:08today and I yield the balance of my time.

00:08:12Thank you.

00:08:13I yield back and the Chair now recognizes for five minutes the ranking member, the Chair

00:08:18of the full committee.

00:08:19I'd be the Chair.

00:08:20No, I'm sorry.

00:08:21I'm still the Chair.

00:08:22I was just thinking that I have to recognize the gentlelady from Michigan because the ranking

00:08:27member is not here.

00:08:28I'm sorry about that.

00:08:30But the Chair of the full committee, the gentlelady from Washington for five minutes.

00:08:34Good morning.

00:08:35Thank you, Chairman Latta, Chairwoman, Commissioners, welcome back.

00:08:40Bridging the digital divide is one of this committee's top priorities and it is the FTC's

00:08:45statutory responsibility to assist us in that effort.

00:08:49But unfortunately, the FCC has been failing in its mission.

00:08:54The Commission's recent action to reclassify broadband internet access as a public utility

00:08:59under Title II of the Communications Act, as well as the agency's broad rules on digital

00:09:05discrimination have undermined our efforts to ensure every American has access to broadband.

00:09:11This could not come at a worse time.

00:09:13We're on the verge of closing the digital divide.

00:09:16Congress has dedicated billions of dollars to achieve this effort, including $42 billion

00:09:21for the Broadband Equity Access and Deployment Program at the National Telecommunications

00:09:25and Information Agency.

00:09:27Those efforts are undercut when the Commission then places heavy-handed regulations and micromanages

00:09:34providers, making it harder to encourage participation in these programs, to deploy

00:09:39and operate new networks and get more people connected.

00:09:44As has already been proven once, Title II is a solution in search of a problem.

00:09:50It's a century-old framework designed to address telephone monopolies, whereas today's broadband

00:09:56marketplace is incredibly competitive.

00:09:59These regulations will hurt consumers most, resulting in higher prices and slower internet speeds.

00:10:07The FCC has failed to learn from previous efforts and has no legitimate jurisdiction

00:10:13for these heavy-handed regulations.

00:10:15The talking points that these regulations protect consumers from harmful ISP practices

00:10:20are not rooted in fact and have already been disproven once by the incredible performance

00:10:25of our networks, especially in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic.

00:10:30The facts are that speeds are up, investment in broadband networks is up, and prices for

00:10:37consumers are down.

00:10:40The fast lanes, blocking and throttling of traffic that Democrats warned about never transpired.

00:10:46Our light-touch regulatory environment works, and turning away from this success with unnecessary

00:10:52regulations is wrongful action.

00:10:56Reclassifying broadband under Title II is not only bad policy, it's also unlawful.

00:11:02As the Republicans on this committee and the Senate Commerce Committee wrote to the Commission

00:11:07before its decision, the FCC has no authority to reclassify broadband.

00:11:13That is Congress's job, as the Supreme Court recently confirmed.

00:11:19The FCC doesn't get to just claim something is necessary for American national security

00:11:24in order to do whatever they want.

00:11:27That is for Congress to decide, as it has in numerous instances recently with things

00:11:33like our TikTok legislation, establishing the Rip and Replace program, and passing the

00:11:38Secure Equipment Act.

00:11:41The decision on how to regulate broadband can have significant economic and political

00:11:47consequences and requires the FCC to have clear authorization from Congress in order

00:11:53to act.

00:11:54When it comes to Title II, we have given the Commission no such authority.

00:11:59This is not the first time this FCC has exceeded their authority.

00:12:03Last December, the agency approved rules on data breach notification that mirrors the

00:12:08rules that Congress disapproved of in 2017 through the Congressional Review Act procedures.

00:12:15The CRA forbids the FCC from enacting rules that are substantially the same as those Congress

00:12:22rejected.

00:12:23And now the FCC is circulating an order that would regulate the use of artificial intelligence

00:12:28in political ads, a task that does not fall under the jurisdiction of the Commission,

00:12:34which drew condemnation from the Federal Election Commission, the independent agency who does

00:12:40hold that authority.

00:12:42This pattern of the FCC abusing its authority and ignoring congressional direction is just

00:12:48another example of the Biden administration's efforts to assert more federal control over

00:12:54the American people's lives.

00:12:57This must end.

00:12:58And I look forward to the court stepping in to overturn these unlawful power grabs.

00:13:03This agency is pursuing a partisan agenda that ignores Congress and fails to solve the

00:13:09actual problems impacting Americans, like illegal robocalls, or permitting reform to

00:13:16help deploy broadband faster, or additional ways to secure our networks from the threats

00:13:21posed by our adversaries.

00:13:24Today's hearing presents an opportunity to hold the FCC accountable for its actions.

00:13:29I look forward to our discussion.

00:13:30Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

00:13:31Well, thank you very much.

00:13:32The chair yields back the balance of her time.

00:13:35The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Michigan's 6th District for an opening statement

00:13:40for five minutes.

00:13:42Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:13:43I'm giving the Ranking Member Pallone's opening statement today.

00:13:50We are here today conducting important oversight of the Federal Communications Commission and

00:13:56its budget for the upcoming year.

00:13:59We commend the FCC, under the leadership of Chairwoman Rosenworcel, for putting the American

00:14:06people at the heart of every decision it has made over the last three years.

00:14:12The FCC has consistently prioritized work to protect consumers, promote public safety,

00:14:19and enhance national security in our communications sector, leading the way towards a digital

00:14:25future that is safe and secure for all Americans.

00:14:30Nowhere has this been more apparent than in the FCC's adoption of a net neutrality protection.

00:14:37This action corrected the Trump-era FCC's misguided rollback of common-sense rules for

00:14:43an open Internet.

00:14:45We strongly support the reinstatement of this authority.

00:14:49The agency rectified a massive dereliction of its duty and extended bedrock consumer

00:14:55protections to broadband Internet access that our nation has always applied to communications

00:15:02services.

00:15:03The FCC's actions will result in greater oversight over Internet providers to mitigate network

00:15:09outages, resolve broadband consumer complaints, prevent anti-consumer and anti-competitive

00:15:17practices, and protect our national security.

00:15:22The FCC is also playing a major role in the implementation of the broadband investments

00:15:27President Biden and Congressional Democrats delivered as part of the bipartisan infrastructure

00:15:32law.

00:15:33In May, the FCC released its fourth major update to the National Broadband Map, which

00:15:39serves as the backbone of the historic $42 billion investment to bring high-speed, affordable

00:15:46broadband to communities overlooked for too long.

00:15:51Not one Republican on this subcommittee voted in favor of that bill, and yet they continue

00:15:56to attack it and jeopardize its success at every opportunity.

00:16:00We're also likely to hear today attacks from Republican commissioners against the implementation

00:16:07of the BEAD program.

00:16:09These attacks fail to recognize that this is the largest investment in broadband deployment

00:16:16in our nation's history, and we want to make sure that we get it right.

00:16:21I would think we would all agree with that.

00:16:24These attacks are only going to hurt communities throughout the entire nation that have either

00:16:28been unserved or underserved for too long.

00:16:33As part of the bipartisan infrastructure law, we also created the Affordable Connectivity

00:16:38Program, which has made broadband more affordable for 23 million American families.

00:16:46I commend the FCC for successfully implementing this program and working to get eligible families

00:16:52signed up.

00:16:53Unfortunately, House Republican leadership allowed the program to lapse last month, leaving

00:16:59all of these families with the very difficult decision of paying higher internet bills every

00:17:05month, and many of them can't afford it, pure and simple, can't afford it, or they lose

00:17:12the service altogether.

00:17:14Extending the popular Affordable Connectivity Program should be something that Democrats

00:17:19and Republicans can agree on.

00:17:21After all, it benefits red and blue districts alike, and I look forward someday to us going

00:17:26back to just being Americans, including rural, urban, and suburban communities.

00:17:32I would also like to commend the Chairwoman for recently proposing that any political

00:17:36ads containing content generated using artificial intelligence must disclose that fact.

00:17:44This proposed requirement will help viewers better understand how political campaigns

00:17:48are attempting to influence them.

00:17:51We appreciate the Chairwoman's efforts on this subject and will continue to support

00:17:55efforts to increase transparency around campaign ads and the use of AI.

00:18:01Finally, there is increasing concern about extreme Republican efforts to destroy agencies

00:18:07like the FCC and the important role it plays on behalf of the public in overseeing critical

00:18:13services like our communication networks.

00:18:16These Republican attacks against our federal agencies would be devastating for consumers

00:18:22and would only help powerful companies to increase their profits even more.

00:18:26Trump's Project 2025 plan, authored in part by a Republican commissioner before us today,

00:18:34would exasperate these consumer harms by eliminating expert agencies, gutting the civil service,

00:18:40and consolidating power under the President.

00:18:44This will have serious negative consequences for Americans, leading to higher prices, lower

00:18:50quality services, and decreased safety and security.

00:18:54We simply cannot allow that to happen.

00:18:58So I appreciate the FCC's work in protecting American consumers and thank the commissioners

00:19:03for being here today.

00:19:05Since I have no time, almost no time left, I yield back the balance of it.

00:19:09Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:19:11Thank you.

00:19:12The General Aide's time has expired and this will conclude Member Opening Statements.

00:19:16The Chair reminds Members that pursuant to Committee rules, all Members' Opening Statements

00:19:20will be made part of the record.

00:19:21Again, we want to thank our witnesses for appearing before us today.

00:19:26Our witnesses will have five minutes to provide an Opening Statement, which will be followed

00:19:30by a round of questions from our members.

00:19:33The witnesses here before us today are Jessica Rosenbersel, the Chairman of the FCC, Brendan

00:19:39Carr, the Commissioner, FCC, Jeffrey Starks, Commissioner, FCC, Nathan Symington, Commissioner,

00:19:45FCC, and Anna Gomez, Commissioner, FCC.

00:19:49I know for our witnesses that the timer light on the table will turn yellow when you have

00:19:53one minute remaining and will turn red when your time has expired.

00:19:57Chairwoman Rosenbersel, you are recognized for five minutes for your Opening Statement.

00:20:02Thanks again for being here.

00:20:06Chair Latta, Ranking Member Matsui, and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity

00:20:10to appear before you to discuss our budget, an effort to build a digital future that works

00:20:15for everyone.

00:20:16Since I appeared before you last year, a lot has happened at the FCC.

00:20:20Let me start with this.

00:20:21We won an Emmy.

00:20:23The Academy honored the FCC for its work repurposing broadcast airwaves for new wireless uses.

00:20:29I'm going to bet that makes us unique among agencies in Washington.

00:20:32We are also unique because we get a lot done, so beyond the bright lights and red carpet,

00:20:37let me tell you about it.

00:20:38First, the FCC is working to connect everyone everywhere.

00:20:41We built the Affordable Connectivity Program, the largest broadband affordability effort

00:20:46in our nation's history.

00:20:47Twenty-three million households rely on it.

00:20:50But funding expired in May, and we need Congress to continue it.

00:20:54Second, the FCC is working to protect consumers and enhance competition.

00:20:58In April, we took steps to ensure that the nation's Expert Communications Authority

00:21:02has basic oversight over the most essential communications of our time by reinstating

00:21:07net neutrality because every consumer deserves Internet access that is fast, open, and fair.

00:21:13We introduced new broadband nutrition labels so consumers can compare service plans.

00:21:18We launched the U.S. Cyber Trustmark so consumers have confidence in Internet of Things devices.

00:21:23And next week, we're voting on a proposal to unlock wireless phones because you bought

00:21:27the phone, you should be able to use it with any carrier you choose.

00:21:31Third, the FCC created the National Broadband Map.

00:21:35This map is the most accurate data we have telling us where broadband is and is not.

00:21:40We need funding for the Broadband Data Act to continue because this map is how we ensure

00:21:45accountability for all new broadband spending.

00:21:48Fourth, the FCC is making connectivity more accessible.

00:21:52Last year, we kicked off a proceeding to make video conferencing services accessible to

00:21:56people with disabilities.

00:21:58We also improved wireless emergency alerts, making them available in more than a dozen

00:22:02languages.

00:22:03Fifth, the FCC is working to connect the most vulnerable.

00:22:06We implemented the Safe Connections Act, helping survivors of domestic violence get the secure

00:22:11communications they need.

00:22:14And we proposed to add a new missing and endangered persons code for emergency alerts so we can

00:22:18help save more lives, especially in tribal communities.

00:22:22Sixth, the FCC is connecting families.

00:22:25Next week, we will vote to implement the Martha Wright Reid Just and Reasonable Communications

00:22:29Act, which will significantly lower rates for phone calls for those who are incarcerated

00:22:34and their kin.

00:22:35Seventh, the FCC is securing your communications.

00:22:39For the first time in history, we have revoked the authorization to provide telecommunications

00:22:44services in the United States for four Chinese companies.

00:22:48This action will soon include broadband and not just voice service.

00:22:52In May, we proposed plans to mitigate Internet routing vulnerabilities identified by DOJ,

00:22:58DHS, and DOD.

00:23:01On top of this, we continue to work to remove Huawei and ZTE equipment in our networks.

00:23:05But without more funding, carriers may not be able to complete the process, threatening

00:23:10national security and risking the shutdown of rural networks.

00:23:13Eighth, the FCC is doubling down on efforts to stop scam robocalls and robotexts.

00:23:19We made clear that AI-generated robocalls are illegal, issued hundreds of millions of

00:23:24dollars in fines, and are now working with 49 state attorneys general to get this junk

00:23:29off the line.

00:23:30But we need more authority from Congress to keep these scam artists at bay.

00:23:34Ninth, the FCC is supporting the growing space economy.

00:23:38There has been a huge increase in the number and complexity of applications for satellite

00:23:42services.

00:23:43In response, we created the Space Bureau, streamlined satellite processing, freed spectrum

00:23:49for commercial space launches, and established a first-of-its-kind-in-the-world framework

00:23:54for the coming convergence of satellite and terrestrial services.

00:23:58We call it the Single Network Future.

00:24:00And last but not least, the FCC is working to free up more spectrum for 5G, 6G, and beyond.

00:24:06But to do this, we need Congress to restore the agency's auction authority.

00:24:10For the first time in three decades, we do not have it.

00:24:14Restoring this authority will provide the United States with the strongest foundation

00:24:18to compete in a global economy, counter our adversaries' technology ambitions, and safeguard

00:24:24our national security.

00:24:26And using this authority, we won an Emmy Award.

00:24:29Bring it back, and let's see what we can do with it next.

00:24:33So those are some of the things that the FCC is doing to build a digital future that works

00:24:37for everyone.

00:24:38I look forward to answering any questions you may have.

00:24:40Well, thank you very much for your testimony.

00:24:43Commissioner O'Connor, you are recognized for five minutes for an opening statement.

00:24:48Chair Latta, Ranking Member Matsui, distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for

00:24:53the invitation to testify.

00:24:56I want to start with the subject of today's hearing, the FCC's 2025 budget request.

00:25:01As I detail in testimony, I do not support the FCC's request for a nearly 15 percent

00:25:09increase in its budget.

00:25:11This significant increase is out of line with agency precedent and out of step with the

00:25:17House's focus on reining in spending.

00:25:21More broadly, though, the FCC's request reflects the Biden administration's misplaced priorities

00:25:27and a massive regulatory overreach.

00:25:32One area where you can see this is the Biden administration's $42 billion internet infrastructure

00:25:38plan known as BEAD, which puts partisan political goals ahead of smart policy.

00:25:44BEAD is the administration's signature plan for extending high-speed internet to millions

00:25:50of Americans, and it is a program that is going off the rails.

00:25:56It's now been 967 days since President Biden signed his $42 billion plan into law.

00:26:05Nine hundred and sixty-seven days later, not one person has been connected to the internet

00:26:11with those dollars.

00:26:13Not even one shovel worth of dirt has been turned in those 967 days.

00:26:19And it gets worse.

00:26:21The administration says that no construction projects will even start until next year at

00:26:26the earliest.

00:26:28This makes President Biden's signature $42 billion initiative the slowest moving broadband

00:26:36deployment program in recent history.

00:26:39The Biden administration's failure to launch is not only predictable.

00:26:43It was predicted.

00:26:45Members of Congress two years ago wrote the administration and explained that its own

00:26:49decisions would create a complex, nine-step, iterative structure and review process that's

00:26:56likely to mire the program in excessive bureaucracy and delay connecting Americans.

00:27:03A year later, members again explained that the administration's rules divert resources

00:27:09away from bringing broadband service to rural America.

00:27:14So what has the Biden administration been doing in those 967 days instead of connecting

00:27:20Americans?

00:27:22It's been layering on red tape and advancing a wish list of progressive policy goals.

00:27:29The administration is using this program to pursue a climate change agenda, DEI requirements,

00:27:35technology biases, price controls, and preferences for government-run networks.

00:27:41None of this has to do with quickly connecting Americans.

00:27:45Now, that's not to say that there aren't broadband builds underway today with dollars

00:27:51the Biden administration has made available.

00:27:54But those other initiatives have their own sets of problems, from lack of coordination

00:28:00to spending dollars on the penny.

00:28:03One example, in 2020, the FCC secured a commitment from Starlink to provide high-speed internet

00:28:10to over 640,000 locations for about $1,300 per location in federal support.

00:28:17But the government revoked that award in 2022.

00:28:22The Biden administration is now spending orders of magnitude more in federal taxpayer dollars

00:28:28to connect locations through its own initiatives.

00:28:31The administration's $42 billion BEAD initiative isn't the only instance of regulatory overreach

00:28:36that merits this subcommittee's attention.

00:28:39There are a growing set of FCC decisions that plainly deviate from the laws you here in

00:28:44Congress have passed.

00:28:46The Supreme Court's decision in Loper-Bright only underscores the need for the FCC to change

00:28:52course in a very fundamental way.

00:28:55That should start with the FCC abandoning its unlawful plan to regulate political speech

00:29:00on the eve of a national election.

00:29:03This effort, which echoes a DNC-backed initiative at the FEC, would impose new regulations on

00:29:09AI-generated political speech just before voters hit the ballot boxes this fall.

00:29:15I oppose it.

00:29:17The FCC should also withdraw its decision to vote on a Wi-Fi hotspot order, as well

00:29:22as its proposal to regulate bulk billing, which could only raise prices for Americans

00:29:30that live in apartments, condos, and public housing.

00:29:33At bottom, the FCC needs to get back to our core mission, closing the digital divide.

00:29:40That means freeing up spectrum and modernizing our infrastructure rules.

00:29:44It's time to correct course.

00:29:47In closing, I want to thank you again for the opportunity to testify.

00:29:50I look forward to your questions.

00:29:53Thank you very much.

00:29:55Commissioner Stark, you're recognized for five minutes.

00:29:58Thank you.

00:30:00Thank you, Chairman Latta, Ranking Member Matsui, members of the subcommittee.

00:30:03Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you here today.

00:30:07One of my highest priorities as a commissioner has been to connect all Americans everywhere

00:30:12to high-quality broadband, regardless of where they live or how much money that they make.

00:30:19On this front, I cannot overstate the importance of the Affordable Connectivity Program.

00:30:24For the over 23 million American households that relied on this program, it offered them

00:30:29a critical opportunity to get and stay connected.

00:30:35I think about Paul, a senior that I met in Illinois in February.

00:30:39He told me that his internet connection was, quote, like air.

00:30:44And that is the reality of how vital broadband is to Americans today.

00:30:50I think about Ron, a veteran who utilized his internet connection to contact the VA

00:30:55hospitals to set up medical appointments, more importantly, to attend virtual meetings

00:30:59where he said he could share his experience with PTSD to help empower other veterans like himself.

00:31:07I think about my visit to Fort Wayne, Indiana, and about the families that I heard from there

00:31:11who relied on ACP to keep their children from falling behind in school.

00:31:17I remember my friend Deborah, who asked me if she was going to have to eat less food

00:31:23when ACP went away because she would still need the internet.

00:31:27It was her link to her family and to her church that was otherwise many hours away.

00:31:34Seniors, veterans, vulnerable families in rural areas, tribal lands, urban spaces, and

00:31:40everything in between, these are the stories of ACP and people that I know.

00:31:46So let me be clear.

00:31:48ACP is the most effective program we've had in helping low-income Americans get online

00:31:53and stay connected.

00:31:54In fact, in my opinion, it's been the most successful program ever in our decades-long

00:32:00bipartisan effort to solve the digital divide.

00:32:03We have made real progress in closing that digital divide through ACP, and we cannot

00:32:09afford to let it slide backwards.

00:32:12And so I look forward to working with those of you on this committee as you reconsider

00:32:16funding this critical program.

00:32:19Making sure that broadband is affordable is just one piece of the puzzle.

00:32:22We also need to make sure that it is safe and secure, and so in April, we reclassified

00:32:27broadband internet access under Title II of the Communications Act, a service that vitally

00:32:32needs oversight.

00:32:35I remain concerned as well about the threats to our nation's networks, but I'm confident

00:32:40that the FCC's recent bipartisan actions will help protect them.

00:32:44Just last month, the Commission unanimously approved a proposal to require ISPs to adopt

00:32:51security risk management plans for their use of Border Gateway Protocol, and this will

00:32:57help Americans' data and make sure it is securely and accurately routed.

00:33:02In addition, we must prioritize fully funding our RIP and Replace program.

00:33:07We've made great progress here, but additional funding is absolutely needed to complete the

00:33:12removal, replacement, and destruction of insecure Chinese equipment and services from

00:33:17our communications networks.

00:33:19Without this funding, providers in rural America, including those that support our military

00:33:25installations, are perilously close to being forced to shut down.

00:33:30While participating in the RIP and Replace program, they cannot update or maintain their

00:33:34legacy networks, and they need our help.

00:33:38Network threats, including from state actors like Russia and China, are not hypothetical.

00:33:45America's ability to lead both abroad and here at home relies on an extension of the

00:33:50FCC's Spectrum Auction Authority, and restoring that authority will provide the United States

00:33:55with the strongest foundation to compete in a global economy, drive growth and investment,

00:34:01enhance competition, and ensure national security.

00:34:06One of the most visible ways we promote safety and security comes by the FCC supporting and

00:34:11improving our emergency alert system today.

00:34:14We're, of course, watching Hurricane Beryl storm through Texas and Arkansas.

00:34:19We've also seen historic flooding in the Midwest.

00:34:22I was in the Midwest a few weeks ago and saw flooding in South Dakota, saw flooding in

00:34:27Iowa.

00:34:28It is essential that Americans receive, understand, and act upon emergency alerts immediately,

00:34:34and that's why we're requiring wireless providers to support alerts in over a dozen languages.

00:34:41One of the agency's chief missions is also protecting consumers.

00:34:45The Cyber Trustmark is a great advancement here, as well as the junk fee initiatives

00:34:50that the agency has undertaken.

00:34:52Thank you for the opportunity to discuss these and more.

00:34:55I look forward to your questions.

00:34:57Thank you for your testimony, and Commissioner Symington, you are recognized for five minutes

00:35:02for your opening statement.

00:35:03Thank you.

00:35:04Chairman Latta, Ranking Member Matsui, and – oh, let's see if this is better, sorry.

00:35:11Chairman Latta, Ranking Member Matsui, and distinguished members of the SUM Committee,

00:35:16it is a privilege to appear before you today.

00:35:19Today I would like to address what I believe is one of the most pressing priorities for

00:35:22the Commission, securing wireless and Internet of Things devices in the face of the accelerating

00:35:27move from a single Internet and technology market toward one fragmented along national

00:35:32borders due to concerns about digital sovereignty, specifically threats to the United States

00:35:37from China.

00:35:39Device security and technology evolution implicates all of the Commission's core functions at

00:35:43a basic level, most specifically its authority over commercial spectrum.

00:35:47However, before I highlight these concerns, I must again express my frustration with the

00:35:52direction that the Commission has taken in dedicating its limited resources to implementation

00:35:57of partisan, unnecessary, and burdensome policy frameworks like the Title II broadband

00:36:02and digital discrimination regulatory regimes.

00:36:05These heavy-handed priorities leave little room for common-sense, urgently needed reforms

00:36:10and soak up invaluable Commission attention.

00:36:13Such reforms include not only a comprehensive framework for securing our networks from foreign

00:36:17threats, which I will address in detail, but also a Universal Service Fund contributions

00:36:22overhaul and a continued focus on space leadership.

00:36:25But now to device security.

00:36:26There was a lot of idealism in the early days of the Internet.

00:36:29It was a universal open network where people from around the world could exchange services

00:36:33and ideas basically without restriction.

00:36:35There were no borders online.

00:36:36If you put up a website in the United States, someone in any other country could access

00:36:41it just as well, perhaps a bit more slowly, but access it just as well as someone in the

00:36:45United States.

00:36:46Across the world, people were using the same devices, running the same software, usually

00:36:50with no more modification than a local translation of the user interface.

00:36:54But today we have seen that there is potential for foreign technology devices and services

00:36:58to be vehicles for espionage and sabotage.

00:37:01We really cannot be sure that any non-trivial device from China, be it a network router,

00:37:06a laptop, a cell phone, can be trusted to not contain backdoors that would allow the

00:37:10Chinese government to exfiltrate data, take control of the device, or render it inoperative.

00:37:15But those same concerns must ultimately extend to any services that store data about Americans

00:37:20in adversary countries or countries and companies that could easily come under the influence

00:37:24of those adversaries.

00:37:26Even the most seemingly benign use of foreign technology can become a security threat.

00:37:30GPS, developed and controlled by the U.S. military, was once the only satellite-based

00:37:34global positioning and precision timing system in the world, but now it faces competition

00:37:39from foreign alternatives like the EU's Galileo, Russia's GLONASS, and China's Beidou.

00:37:44Supporting those systems is sometimes a requirement for device manufacturers wishing to sell in

00:37:48those countries.

00:37:49So between achieving economies of skill for manufacturers in all markets and the fact

00:37:54that these positioning systems currently offer higher precision in some cases than

00:37:57the American GPS system, it appears that many American businesses and consumers are knowingly

00:38:03or unknowingly relying on these foreign systems.

00:38:06And what's worse, American businesses and consumers often make the decision, most likely

00:38:10unknowingly, to buy untrustworthy equipment from a Chinese or other foreign company because

00:38:15the equipment is inexpensive or preselected by a preferred and trusted vendor.

00:38:19Unfortunately, most of these products come from companies that fail to take security

00:38:22seriously and that are careless in their software development practices.

00:38:27Companies like these routinely fail to correct known security vulnerabilities in a timely

00:38:30manner, and many don't even take the most basic precautions to prevent unauthorized

00:38:34access and control of the now millions of wireless and IoT devices they make available

00:38:39to American consumers and businesses.

00:38:41Given all of these increasingly burgeoning threats, I'm very pleased that in March of

00:38:46this year, my Commission colleagues were willing to reach across the aisle and work diligently

00:38:50alongside me to put teeth into the Commission's implementation of the U.S. Cyber TrustMARC

00:38:54program.

00:38:55This voluntary program sets a high bar for the security of wireless devices.

00:38:59If manufacturers want to be eligible for the MARC, they will have to declare that they

00:39:02have taken every reasonable measure to create a secure device.

00:39:05They will have to commit to a support period up front.

00:39:08During that support period, they will have to diligently identify critical vulnerabilities

00:39:12in their products and promptly release updates correcting them.

00:39:15I look forward to continuing to work with colleagues to figure out how to expand this

00:39:19program to computers, smartphones, routers, and other devices.

00:39:23My Commission colleagues also agreed to include a further notice of proposed rulemaking on

00:39:27the issue of how to handle devices that run software developed in hostile countries that

00:39:31will receive updates deployed from or that can be controlled by servers in such countries

00:39:36or that will store user data in those countries.

00:39:39Such devices are at high risk of being weaponized by hostile powers like China.

00:39:43And as a result, there's still so much more work to be done to protect the American public.

00:39:48Chairman Latta, Vice Chair Carter, Ranking Member Matsui, and members of the Subcommittee,

00:39:53I want to thank you again for holding this hearing and for the opportunity to testify

00:39:56and I look forward to answering your questions.

00:39:59Thank you for your testimony and Commissioner Gomez, you are recognized for five minutes

00:40:04for your opening statement.

00:40:06Thank you.

00:40:07Good morning, Chair Latta, Ranking Member Matsui, and members of the Subcommittee.

00:40:11It is an honor to appear before you today.

00:40:14In the past nine months, I've had the privilege of traveling across the country to meet with

00:40:17consumers, industry leaders, advocacy groups, and local elected officials.

00:40:22These meetings highlighted the importance of communication services in daily life and

00:40:27the FCC's mission to ensure these services are accessible to everyone.

00:40:32We know that high-speed Internet service is no longer a luxury but a necessity.

00:40:37During a visit to the Orlando Veterans Affairs Medical Center, I learned that 80% of medical

00:40:42treatments veterans use for recovery requires a broadband connection.

00:40:47A veteran from Paralyzed Veterans of America told me that connectivity is essential for

00:40:53veterans, particularly veterans with disabilities, to obtain health care, job opportunities,

00:40:58and VA benefits.

00:41:00The importance of digital connectivity in the daily lives of Americans is what makes

00:41:04the funding lapse of the bipartisan Affordable Connectivity Program so concerning.

00:41:09As of June 1, when funding lapsed, 23 million households across the United States lost

00:41:14support for the connectivity they need for work, school, and health care.

00:41:19While some Internet service providers have voluntarily stepped up to provide limited,

00:41:24free or lower-cost service, these are temporary salves, and absent action, families will face

00:41:29rising bills and disconnection.

00:41:32I very much empathize because I have lived experience with having to choose between paying

00:41:37rent and paying my phone bill.

00:41:40The ACP is the most successful tool Congress has ever provided to close the digital divide.

00:41:45The ACP benefited every corner of the country, and it connected communities historically

00:41:50on the wrong side of the digital divide.

00:41:53The end of this program threatens the significant progress, and I worry that we risk failing

00:41:59to maximize the billions in bipartisan investment in broadband infrastructure.

00:42:05Beyond connectivity, I would like to highlight a few noteworthy consumer-focused actions

00:42:09that the Commission has taken recently.

00:42:12We now require that wireless emergency alerts reach consumers in 13 languages and American

00:42:17Sign Language.

00:42:18This will help save lives.

00:42:22We also propose to establish a new emergency alert code dedicated to help find missing

00:42:26adults that would not be reported through existing alerts.

00:42:31This can bring comfort to families by helping to find missing loved ones and to address

00:42:35the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous persons, a topic I discussed with the Las

00:42:41Vegas Paiute Tribe recently.

00:42:43We have also implemented Congress's direction in the Safe Connections Act by requiring mobile

00:42:48phone providers to separate the line of a domestic abuse survivor from that of their

00:42:53abuser.

00:42:54We continue to take actions to address unwanted robocalls and robotexts.

00:42:59And the Commission reinstated rules to protect the open Internet.

00:43:04Broadband Internet access is too important, too essential to the safety, economy, health,

00:43:10education, and well-being of this country not to have guardrails in place.

00:43:15From robocalls to spectrum licenses, much of our work domestically is tied to our work

00:43:19internationally.

00:43:21As Commissioner, I have met with multiple counterparts around the world.

00:43:25In these engagements, it is clear that the thirst for wireless innovation is global.

00:43:31We have been global leaders in wireless innovation and made spectrum auctions the gold standard

00:43:35for assigning this finite resource.

00:43:38We must continue to foster innovation to meet our wireless needs, and that requires congressional

00:43:43action to reestablish the FCC's auction authority.

00:43:47The conversations I've had over the last nine months have given me a greater appreciation

00:43:51for the critical role the Commission plays in the lives of Americans.

00:43:55I want to read you a message I received from a young mother.

00:43:59I am writing to you as a mother of two that really depends on having Internet on the ACP

00:44:04to be able to work, to find work, and to educate them.

00:44:08I know it's asking a lot for you to consider keeping this and try to find funding for it.

00:44:14I don't have much to my name.

00:44:16Everything I have is negative standings right now.

00:44:19If you can manage to find a way or maybe change somebody's mind so that the funding

00:44:23doesn't end.

00:44:25When I think about the mission of the FCC, I think about what is at stake for Americans

00:44:29like this young mother.

00:44:30There remains much work to do, and I am honored to have the opportunity to serve the people

00:44:36of the United States.

00:44:37I look forward to collaborating with you, federal partners, state, local, and tribal

00:44:42leaders, and all stakeholders as I continue my service.

00:44:47Thank you.

00:44:48And thank you very much for your statement.

00:44:51That will conclude our opening statements from our five commissioners, and we will now

00:44:56begin questioning, and I recognize myself for five minutes, but I would like to ask

00:45:00unanimous consent for a point of personal privilege to recognize the former chair of

00:45:05the full committee, Mr. Walden.

00:45:07Good having you back.

00:45:09So, we never forget you.

00:45:12Commissioner Carr, this Democratic commission has unfortunately voted to once again reclassify

00:45:21broadband under Title II.

00:45:24Chairman Morrison-Werzel claims that the internet did not break when Title II was repealed in

00:45:292017 because states stepped in to enact their own net neutrality rules, yet broadband coverage

00:45:35has been expanded, speeds have increased, and cost has decreased throughout the United

00:45:39States, not just in the states that enacted net neutrality rules.

00:45:43What's your response to this claim?

00:45:46The presence of those state laws is not the reason why we didn't see all of the predictions

00:45:51from 2017 come true.

00:45:53For one, the state laws didn't take effect for a number of years.

00:45:57For another, if the potential of state regulation was enough, then that undermines the need

00:46:03for the FCC to step in with heavy-handed rules.

00:46:06The reality is, as we were told, that repealing these rules in 2017 would be the end of the

00:46:11internet as we know it.

00:46:12Since then, speeds are up over fivefold, prices are down in real terms, millions of Americans

00:46:20were brought across the digital divide, and COVID was the ultimate stress test.

00:46:24With our right regulatory framework, our networks performed, whereas those in Europe, which

00:46:29had heavier-handed, utility-style regulations, saw speed slowdowns quite dramatically.

00:46:35In fact, their regulators asked Netflix and YouTube to degrade the quality of the streams

00:46:40to prevent the continent's networks from breaking.

00:46:42So this was ultimately a solution in search of a problem that didn't exist.

00:46:48At our last meeting that we had, I asked you whether the FCC chair provided any briefings

00:46:54to discuss or disclose the national security threat that needed to be addressed by Title

00:46:58II, and you said no.

00:47:00Did you receive any such briefings before the April vote?

00:47:04I've had SCIF-level briefings.

00:47:06None of them have involved either the FBI or the CIA or National Security Agency, just

00:47:10internal officials in the FCC.

00:47:12There's nothing that I've seen in those SCIF-level briefings that indicate that Title II is necessary

00:47:17to address any national security threat.

00:47:19In fact, if you look right now, reports are that Commerce Department is using existing

00:47:23authorities, Part 7 authorities, to look at potential issues involving potentially China

00:47:28Mobile, China Telecom, if the reports are true.

00:47:31Thank you.

00:47:32We'll continue.

00:47:33While the FCC is expanding its authority and imposing heavy-handed regulations on the broadband

00:47:39industry, other federal agencies are about to provide tens of billions of dollars to

00:47:43connect all Americans.

00:47:44How will the reclassification of broadband as Title II service and the FCC's digital

00:47:50discrimination rules affect the success of these other federal programs and our efforts

00:47:54to close the digital divide?

00:47:57This regulatory onslaught from Washington is simply increasing the costs artificially

00:48:04of America's broadband builders that are trying to bridge the digital divide.

00:48:07It is a headwind, not a tailwind.

00:48:10How do we know this?

00:48:11At the very last second in our digital equity proceeding, the Biden administration secured

00:48:15an exemption for its own signature $42 billion bead program, which I take as evidence that

00:48:22those heavy-handed regulations are going to make it harder for broadband initiatives

00:48:27to succeed.

00:48:28Is this the right time to impose these regulations?

00:48:36Right now, broadband builders are seeing a massive spike in their costs, everything from

00:48:40supply chain issues to just purchasing pickup trucks to do the actual building.

00:48:44And so right now, we need to be focused on eliminating artificial costs.

00:48:49That means streamlining permitting, which we're not doing.

00:48:52That means pushing more spectrum out there that we're not doing.

00:48:54But this regulatory onslaught from Washington is only just further increasing costs in an

00:48:59already inflationary environment.

00:49:01So we are a headwind right now to these efforts.

00:49:04Well, Commissioner Symington, do you agree with that?

00:49:08Yes.

00:49:09Thank you.

00:49:11I'm part of a bipartisan, bicameral, universal service fund working group that is looking

00:49:16to reform the USF so that its programs and funding reflect our country's needs moving

00:49:21forward.

00:49:23What reforms do you think Congress needs to make to the USF and to the programs it supports?

00:49:27Well, thanks, Chairman, for your leadership on this.

00:49:30You know, when it comes to universal service, I'm reminded of an old saying from President

00:49:34Reagan that the government oftentimes is like an infant, an insatiable appetite on one end

00:49:39and no sense of responsibility on the other.

00:49:42Right now, the FCC continues to expand our USF initiative in an unlawful way, in my view,

00:49:47including a vote later this month to fund hotspots from schools and libraries.

00:49:53So the first thing we need to do is stick with the statutory terms and not expand the

00:49:59universal service program right now without taking on any responsibility for the fact

00:50:03that the cost of this is being borne by the monthly bills of Americans and that cost keeps

00:50:08going up and up.

00:50:09So I want to commend you for your work.

00:50:11Again, the FCC should stop expanding it and we should take a hard look at how we can put

00:50:16this program on firmer, sounder financial footing.

00:50:20Thank you.

00:50:21My time has expired and I yield back and the Chair recognizes the Ranking Member of the

00:50:26Subcommittee, the gentlelady from California, for five minutes of questions.

00:50:30Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:50:32America's leadership in spectrum policy fuels technological innovation from Wi-Fi to satellite

00:50:37and advanced wireless networks.

00:50:39However, the FCC's spectrum auction authority lapsed over a year ago, undermining America's

00:50:45ability to bring new spectrum to market and advance its spectrum policies in global negotiations.

00:50:51Commissioner Gomez, how is the continued lack of spectrum auction authority impacting our

00:50:56international leadership and the ability of American companies to drive innovation?

00:51:02Thank you for that question, Ranking Member Mitsui.

00:51:05The lack of having our spectrum authority is absolutely putting us behind in terms of

00:51:11being able to advance our U.S. competitiveness, our global competitiveness in wireless innovation,

00:51:19for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that we cannot currently auction

00:51:22spectrum, but we also can't plan for future auctions.

00:51:27We need that authority in order to be able to take the many steps in advance of an auction

00:51:31in order to be able to initiate an auction.

00:51:34It also affects our innovators in equipment manufacturing because they, too, need certainty

00:51:40to know how they should manufacture equipment, develop equipment based on services that we're

00:51:47going to be auctioning.

00:51:48Thank you.

00:51:51We talked about a forwarded connectivity program, the ACP, many times.

00:51:57Chairwoman Rosenwaltz, ACP was a significant resource in addressing disparities in broadband

00:52:03access for underserved communities.

00:52:05With the program now expired, what efforts is the FCC taking to secure the progress made

00:52:11by ACP in closing the digital divide?

00:52:14Thank you for the question.

00:52:15The Affordable Connectivity Program was the largest program in our nation's history to

00:52:20help close the digital divide by helping low-income households in every state in this country

00:52:24get online and stay online.

00:52:26We're proud of the work we did to get it up and running.

00:52:29Now we want to sustain all of those opportunities to keep people connected.

00:52:34Obviously, the first thing we can do is have Congress continue to fund this program.

00:52:39But apart from that, we've done a lot of work to reach out to our outreach partners to make

00:52:42sure that they are aware of alternatives and that they notify those they've been working

00:52:47with about what it means to stay connected.

00:52:49And we are monitoring complaints regarding the Affordable Connectivity Program.

00:52:53And I should add that we've seen a 40 percent increase from consumers on them because they

00:52:57are upset that this program has come to an end.

00:53:00So if you can find a way to continue it, I think that is good for us managing the digital

00:53:04divide.

00:53:05As an original co-sponsor of the Rip and Replace Bill, I believe allowing Huawei and other

00:53:09vulnerable equipment gear to continue operating in American networks is simply unacceptable.

00:53:16But that's exactly what is happening today.

00:53:18For our made progress removing much of it, the ongoing funding shortfall means the job

00:53:23is far from over.

00:53:26Commissioner Starcher did mention the ongoing national security, but what are the limitations

00:53:31that rural carriers face when maintaining or upgrading their networks without full

00:53:35Rip and Replace funding?

00:53:36Yes, thank you for the question and your hard work and leadership here.

00:53:40I've long said network security is national security.

00:53:44With our providers receiving only 40 cents on the dollar, 14 out of 126 applicants have

00:53:50only completed their Rip and Replace work.

00:53:53And so what that really means is that those that are near military installations, we still

00:53:57have vulnerabilities there.

00:53:59Some of these are the only providers in rural areas, so we absolutely need to finish the

00:54:03job.

00:54:04Okay, thank you.

00:54:05Robocalls.

00:54:06Those are sort of the bane of our existence, I think, but predatory robocalls and texts

00:54:11threaten consumer privacy and financial well-being.

00:54:15In 2022 alone, the FTC reported more than $1.13 billion in financial losses to consumers

00:54:22from scammed phone calls and texts.

00:54:24That's why I introduced the Stop Scams and Spam Act to expose the worst illegal robocall

00:54:31and robotext campaigns, and why I introduced the FCC Legal Enforcement Act to further crack

00:54:37down on criminal robocallers.

00:54:40Chairwoman Rosenwalt, so do you believe that increased transparency and enforcement, as

00:54:44provided in my bills, could help protect Americans from scam calls and texts?

00:54:48Yes, I do.

00:54:50Okay, great.

00:54:51Let me just also ask about this, too.

00:54:55We talked about E-Rate many times.

00:54:57The FCC is at the front lines of efforts to close the digital divide, and programs like

00:55:02E-Rate play a crucial role by ensuring education equity and empowering students with essential

00:55:08resources.

00:55:09Chairman Rosenwalt, so this month the FCC plans to vote on a proposal to support Wi-Fi

00:55:14hotspots for off-premise use under the E-Rate program.

00:55:18How would this change impact the digital divide and help close the homework gap?

00:55:22And you've got 10 seconds.

00:55:24Well, you probably remember from the pandemic, kids and people sitting in parking lots and

00:55:28outside of schools just trying to get online.

00:55:31This is an effort to help stop problems like that.

00:55:35We have authority under the law to make it happen.

00:55:37Every library in this country should have wireless hotspots for loan.

00:55:40We can make that baseline in the United States, and we should.

00:55:43Okay, thank you very much.

00:55:49The gentlelady yields back the balance of her time, and the Chair now recognizes the

00:55:54gentleman from Georgia's 1st District.

00:55:56Five minutes for questions.

00:55:58Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank all of you for being here today.

00:56:00We appreciate your presence.

00:56:02Commissioner Carr, I want to ask you, I understand that the courts upheld the FCC's previous

00:56:07rules to streamline the broadband permitting process under Chevron.

00:56:11Now that the Supreme Court has overturned that decision, how important is it that Congress

00:56:16act to codify those provisions?

00:56:19Thanks Congressman for your leadership on this.

00:56:20I think the legislation that you've been leading on, the American Broadband Deployment Act,

00:56:25would codify a lot of really smart ideas that would turn things around in this country and

00:56:30make sure that we can start actually building out broadband in a cost-effective way.

00:56:34So I think, particularly in light of Chevron, as you noted, having Congress step in with

00:56:38clear authorization for this can only help.

00:56:41Commissioner Simington, would you comment on that as well?

00:56:44Yes, absolutely.

00:56:45The past permitting reform at the FCC greatly increased build-out speed, however, in the

00:56:53post-Chevron world, seeing action on this from Congress could only benefit closing the

00:56:58digital divide.

00:56:59Great.

00:57:00Commissioner Carr, does the new digital discrimination regime adopted by the commission's majority

00:57:04put the commission, and by extension, the trial bar, in a position to second-guess deployment

00:57:09decisions made by broadband providers?

00:57:12Yeah, this provision was a one-page provision of law tucked into a thousand-page bill.

00:57:19In the way the FCC read it, it was as if it conveyed more authorities than the entire

00:57:241934 Communications Act in every single statutory provision passed since then.

00:57:28There is no limit under the FCC's reading to its authority now, whether it's Wall Street

00:57:33or Madison Avenue or construction crews or even governments itself are now subject to

00:57:39second-guessing by the FCC here in Washington.

00:57:42So, essentially, how would the need to defend against these challenges likely decrease investment

00:57:48and risk-taking by broadband providers?

00:57:51We now have unlimited liability based on the FCC's digital equity rules.

00:57:54If you take an action, you may be liable.

00:57:56If you don't take an action, because it covers emissions as well, you might be liable, and

00:58:00so it gives no certainty to the capital allocators that need to put, and that we should want,

00:58:05billions of dollars to go into our networks.

00:58:08Let me ask you about Loper Bright and the Supreme Court's decision there.

00:58:12Does that affect the FCC's recent digital discrimination rules?

00:58:16I think the digital equity rules and the Title II rules, in my view, were always going to

00:58:20be subject to the major questions doctrine, not Chevron.

00:58:23But fundamentally, Chevron reinforces the idea that the framers want you here in Congress

00:58:29to make these decisions rather than having the FCC or other agencies take a provision

00:58:35of law that doesn't address an issue or only does so in an ambiguous way and claim expansive

00:58:41authority.

00:58:42So, I think the Supreme Court's decision reinforces the constitutional structure of the people's

00:58:47representatives here making these fundamental decisions about what the federal law should

00:58:51be.

00:58:52What about you, Commissioner Semington?

00:58:54Well, on the merits, I don't know how I would comply with the digital discrimination rules

00:59:00if I were in the position of having to make those decisions in business, and I also don't

00:59:04know how we're going to enforce them.

00:59:05It doesn't seem that there are any real standards, as Commissioner Carr said.

00:59:10Anything that you do or fail to do may be attributed against you.

00:59:13So I agree with his analysis that this would likely come under major questions doctrine

00:59:17and not Chevron.

00:59:18Nonetheless, I also agree with his statement about how the Supreme Court has allocated

00:59:23the balance of responsibilities.

00:59:25Okay.

00:59:26Commissioner Carr, disparate impact.

00:59:30That does not appear in Section 6506 of the IJJA.

00:59:36Given the complete absence of that and the complete absence of the explicit direction

00:59:42by Congress to employ such a standard and rules to prevent digital discrimination, do

00:59:48you believe the commission has erred in adopting such a standard in its new rules?

00:59:52It did.

00:59:53The FCC created a record to look for instances of discrimination in the broadband market,

00:59:58and after two years, the FCC said its record indicated that there were no such instances

01:00:02of discrimination.

01:00:03Nonetheless, the FCC adopted the strong medicine of this disparate impact theory, which means

01:00:10even if you have no intent to discriminate, the courts can come in and second-guess it.

01:00:14What the courts have said is if Congress is going to create a disparate impact theory

01:00:18of liability, it has to use very clear, specific words, again, because it's very strong medicine.

01:00:23Those words were absent from the statute.

01:00:26Commissioner Simenden, do you have anything to add to that?

01:00:30Just that, again, the reach of this also needs to be emphasized.

01:00:34Commissioner Carr mentioned that it reaches construction companies.

01:00:36It reaches anyone who in some way limits access, even if involuntarily or unknowingly.

01:00:42That's a very broad brush.

01:00:43Great.

01:00:44Well, obviously, this committee and this Congress have got a lot of work to do to help you guys,

01:00:49so thank you very much for being here again.

01:00:51I appreciate it, and I yield back.

01:00:53Thank you.

01:00:54We're back to balance of time.

01:00:55The chair now recognizes the gentleman from California's 29th district for five minutes

01:00:59for questions.

01:01:01Thank you very much, Chairman Lara and also Ranking Member Matsui, for holding this important

01:01:05hearing, and I really appreciate the commissioners being here.

01:01:08I appreciate the information that you're sharing with us and certainly agree and disagree with

01:01:14many of your opinions, but here we are.

01:01:18I would love to discuss a few issues with you.

01:01:21I'd like to start with the obvious off the top, and it's a travesty that my Republican

01:01:26colleagues have allowed the funding for the Affordable Connectivity Program to lapse.

01:01:30The ACP was a vital lifeline for millions of Americans and tens of thousands of families

01:01:35in my district who would otherwise struggle to get connected and stay connected to the

01:01:39Internet, a basic necessity in today's world.

01:01:43Allowing funding for this program to expire is negligent on the part of our Republican

01:01:47leadership, and I would like to once again urge my colleagues on the other side of the

01:01:51aisle to work with us to get the ACP up and running again.

01:01:56All of us here on both sides of the aisle have constituents who benefited from this

01:02:00program.

01:02:01This should be a no-brainer for all of us to work together on.

01:02:05I'd like to start with my questions with the FCC's adoption of its $200 million school

01:02:10cybersecurity initiative last month, which I'm happy to see that action.

01:02:15As you all know, it was widely reported that LA Unified School District, one of the largest

01:02:20in the country, suffered a massive cybersecurity attack in 2022 that compromised the records

01:02:26of thousands of students, including data on COVID, test results, driver's licenses, and

01:02:31other personal information.

01:02:33Improved cybersecurity for our students is critical in investing in, and one that hits

01:02:39close to home, not only with my community, but communities across the country are at

01:02:44risk.

01:02:45I'd like to hear from those in Warsaw.

01:02:46What are the Commission's goals for this program, and what would success look like?

01:02:50Thank you so much.

01:02:51As you know, cyberattacks are reaching school districts across the country, big districts

01:02:55like in Los Angeles and small ones like St. Landry Parish in Louisiana, and restoring

01:03:01the networks for learning can take anywhere from three days to three months.

01:03:06So we took a look at the E-Rate program, which has long supported broadband to our nation's

01:03:10schools, and we decided that we would start a pilot program to try to understand this

01:03:14problem and then also understand what partners exist in the solution.

01:03:19And by that, I mean the Department of Education, our colleagues at the Cybersecurity Infrastructure

01:03:23Security Agency, and also state and local officials.

01:03:27Thank you very much.

01:03:28I'd also like to thank the Commission for its efforts to require geo-routing solutions

01:03:32for wireless calls to the 9-8-8 suicide and crisis lifeline.

01:03:36We've made great strides in improving our response to members of our communities who

01:03:40are experiencing a mental health crisis through the 9-8-8 lifeline.

01:03:44However, there's always progress to be made.

01:03:47Currently, when you call 9-8-8, you are routed to a call center based on your area code,

01:03:52as it should be.

01:03:53If I were to call 9-8-8 from Washington, D.C., I would be connected with someone based in

01:03:59L.A., because that's where my phone is from.

01:04:03This is a problem when a call center needs to send a mental health response team to help

01:04:08a caller that may be thousands of miles away.

01:04:11The FCC's 9-8-8 geo-routing proposal would help solve this problem.

01:04:15Chairwoman Rosenworcel, can you talk about the Commission's 9-8-8 geo-routing proposal

01:04:20and the importance of the FCC's efforts to better connect Americans experiencing mental

01:04:24health crisis with location-specific resources?

01:04:28Sure.

01:04:299-8-8 has been around this month for two years, and in that time, 10 million people have reached

01:04:34out in crisis from all across the country to get help.

01:04:39It is a success story, but we can make it better.

01:04:42The way we make it better is making sure that when someone reaches out for help, they get

01:04:46help from someone nearby.

01:04:49What we are doing with geo-routing is just that.

01:04:51Instead of using the area code, we would use the cell tower that is picking up the call

01:04:57to route to a crisis center.

01:04:59We've sent letters to carriers.

01:05:01We've done some testing.

01:05:03We started a rulemaking to make sure we have technical standards.

01:05:06Once we complete that rulemaking, we'll need the Department of Health and Human Services

01:05:09to work with us to put it in the contract, but I believe all of that is possible this

01:05:13year.

01:05:14Thank you very much.

01:05:15Commissioner Starks, can you provide your perspective on how Congress can support your

01:05:19work on this issue?

01:05:21Yes.

01:05:22On 9-8-8, again, this is folks who are calling in a critical part of their life, need help,

01:05:30need it to be done close to where they are.

01:05:33As we've heard, working with HHS, working with industry, it has been a real collective

01:05:38effort here, as well as some of the resiliency and making sure that we have the right requirements

01:05:44in place has been a real team effort.

01:05:47Thank you very much.

01:05:489-8-8 has yet to become as common around the country as 9-1-1, but it is moving forward

01:05:53fluidly and as it should, and I really appreciate the efforts that the FCC has done.

01:05:58This is life-saving work, and that is critical, and I think that is one of the main reasons

01:06:02why we all run for office, to make sure that our Americans are safe in every situation

01:06:07with every possibility.

01:06:09With my time has expired, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

01:06:11Thank you.

01:06:12The gentleman's time has expired.

01:06:13The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Utah for five minutes for questions.

01:06:19Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:06:21Chairwoman Rosen-Wurzel, the commission has decided to allow speed test submissions as

01:06:26a valid way to challenge claims of mobile service.

01:06:29However, the FCC will not allow consumers to submit speed test data to verify claims

01:06:34of fixed service.

01:06:35Can you explain why the commission would not allow a speed test as a valid individual challenge

01:06:40to the fixed broadband map?

01:06:41Sure.

01:06:42This is a good question and one we're working through, but I want to correct one or two

01:06:45things you've said.

01:06:47With respect to fixed challenges, we do accept speed tests for availability data to prove

01:06:53that service is present or not present.

01:06:57With respect to the actual speeds, it's more complicated because where you place your router

01:07:02in your house has a huge impact on your speeds.

01:07:05We're looking for a statistical way to validate this so that we can use that data more comprehensively

01:07:09going forward.

01:07:10I'd be happy to make sure your office is kept updated.

01:07:13Thank you.

01:07:14Yes, I'd appreciate that.

01:07:15Also, I'd like to talk about mapping.

01:07:17FCC's National Broadband Map Act acts as the base layer of coordination for important broadband

01:07:24funding programs, including the BEAD, ensuring that these maps are accurate and up-to-date

01:07:29will ensure that funds are not wasted and the digital divide is closed quickly and effectively.

01:07:35Part of that process is challenging the serviceability of broadband location.

01:07:39Can you explain how the commission works with CostQuest to review challenge data and why

01:07:44demonstrable on-the-ground proof-of-service might be rejected as a valid bulk challenge

01:07:49to the underlying fabric data?

01:07:51All right.

01:07:52It's a complex process we set up.

01:07:54We did it pursuant to the Broadband Data Act, which is legislation from this committee.

01:07:58And what you said about this map and its data being our accountability program for all these

01:08:03broadband spending dollars, I just want to agree with you, that's spot on.

01:08:07So it's imperative we get it right.

01:08:09And when we get it right, that occurs when we take updates from our vendor, CostQuest,

01:08:13which helps manage our fabric, and also updates from carriers, consumers, and local and state

01:08:19authorities.

01:08:20So we combine all that information and crowdsource it and get the best map possible.

01:08:25It's an iterative process.

01:08:26We take all that data in and update it every six months.

01:08:29And I'd be happy to provide more information about just how we do that if you'd like.

01:08:33Okay.

01:08:34And with the BEAD program set to approve most, if not all, of state proposals by the end

01:08:38of July, the FCC's National Broadband Map, NBM, is a critical component in making those

01:08:44funding decisions.

01:08:46As FCC continues to update and refine the NBM, how does the FCC plan to address providers

01:08:51who overstate their coverage?

01:08:53Well, first, there are providers that overstate their coverage in a willful, malicious, and

01:08:58dishonest way.

01:09:00We send them to enforcement and take action against them.

01:09:03There are incidental overstatements, and we rely on state officials, authorities, and

01:09:08customers to correct them.

01:09:10But in addition to our process of assessing where service is and is not, I know that the

01:09:16BEAD program requires every state to run its own process.

01:09:19And that's important, too, because I really believe local and state officials have a better

01:09:22command of what's going on in their backyard, and that's got to inform where they spend

01:09:26those dollars.

01:09:27Thank you.

01:09:28Also, Commissioner Carr, if you would also weigh in on this.

01:09:32In May, the FCC adopted a notice of proposed rulemaking to strengthen requirements and

01:09:36oversight of telecommunications certified bodies, TCBs.

01:09:40I think this is an important action to strengthen our national security.

01:09:44Can you discuss how the threat posed by TCBs with no ties to our adversaries?

01:09:49Thank you, Congressman, for the question.

01:09:51Thanks for your leadership on all these national security issues.

01:09:54This one is interesting.

01:09:55So over the years, Congress has passed laws that have asked the FCC to stop insecure network

01:10:01gear from getting into our networks.

01:10:04This proposal builds on that, because the idea here is let's make sure that the labs

01:10:09and other certification bodies that are checking for this equipment are themselves trustworthy

01:10:14actors.

01:10:15I really want to thank the chair in particular and her team for the work to move that forward

01:10:19to a proposal.

01:10:20I look forward to trying to get that to an order soon.

01:10:22I think it'd be another piece of our overall national security strategy.

01:10:26Chairwoman, would you like to comment as well?

01:10:30It's really important that we update our telecommunications certification bodies and the labs that give

01:10:35them data.

01:10:36And I've been working with Commissioner Carr on this.

01:10:38I agree with everything he just said.

01:10:40Thank you.

01:10:41Thank you for your succinct answers.

01:10:42Chairman, I yield my time.

01:10:44Thank you.

01:10:45The gentleman used back the balance of his time.

01:10:46The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Michigan's 6th District for five minutes for

01:10:51questions.

01:10:52Thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:10:53And thanks again to everybody for joining us today.

01:10:58I do want to say, as I said in my opening statement, we really do need to fund the Affordable

01:11:03Connectivity Program.

01:11:05There's no question about it.

01:11:07Many people in my state have talked about it.

01:11:10In Michigan, nearly one million households, one in four households in the state of Michigan,

01:11:16have saved money on their Internet bills because of the ACP.

01:11:19We needed to act yesterday.

01:11:21It's crucial for ensuring that all Americans are able to participate in the digital economy,

01:11:27access education and health care resources, and stay connected to essential services.

01:11:32I just urge all of my colleagues to work with us to get this program funded.

01:11:37And as I said in open earmarks, I've had people crying because they can't afford it.

01:11:41It's bad.

01:11:43I am working on legislation to address the threat of domestic abusers exploiting connectivity

01:11:48tools in vehicles to harass and intimidate their partners.

01:11:53This effort would establish a process for survivors to request determination or the

01:11:57disabling of connected vehicle services that abusers could misuse, ensuring their safety

01:12:04and confidentiality without imposing additional burdens on them.

01:12:09This would also allow survivors to maintain access to a vehicle, which is a crucial tool

01:12:14for achieving safety and independence.

01:12:17We have to take proactive measures to address the vulnerabilities in connected vehicles,

01:12:23ensuring that modern vehicle communications contribute to the safety of domestic abuser

01:12:28survivors is essential.

01:12:31Madam Chair, in April, the Commission issued a further notice of proposed rulemaking to

01:12:35support survivors of domestic abuse and sexual violence.

01:12:40Could you provide an update on the Commission's progress?

01:12:44Thank you for that.

01:12:45I think you know right now, cars are like smartphones on wheels.

01:12:49They're very sophisticated.

01:12:52They're very sophisticated.

01:12:53They can track where we go and what we do.

01:12:54And there have been press reports that they have been weaponized for victims of domestic

01:12:59violence.

01:13:00We can fix this.

01:13:01It is within our power.

01:13:02Congress already directed us with the Safe Connections Act to make survivors of domestic

01:13:06violence have more secure communications.

01:13:08We've got to apply similar policies to our vehicles.

01:13:12So I appreciate what you're working on.

01:13:13I'll make sure that what we do at the FCC, we coordinate with you so that we can work

01:13:17in lockstep to solve this problem.

01:13:18I really want to do that.

01:13:19And we will be introducing bipartisan legislation on this because by allowing individuals to

01:13:25disable or terminate access to connected vehicle services that abusers could exploit, we are

01:13:30going to protect them.

01:13:31That's just pure and simple, dating violence, sexual assault, stalking, and sex trafficking.

01:13:36Let me move to robocalls.

01:13:38As I've brought up in previous hearings in front of this committee, we know that bad

01:13:42actors can take advantage of our vulnerable populations through robocalls and robotechs.

01:13:48Often driven by artificial intelligence, scammers can exploit vulnerable consumers by using

01:13:53tactics to deceive them.

01:13:55While AI has the power to make it easier for consumers to give information they're looking

01:14:00for, it unfortunately is also used to trick them.

01:14:04I appreciate the work all the commission's doing on combating robocalls and robotechs,

01:14:08holding these scammers accountable.

01:14:10Again, Madam Chair, what do you most need from Congress to help the FCC stay ahead of

01:14:16these scammers?

01:14:18Would more resources for consumer education help?

01:14:22The answer is yes, but I've got a few things that I think would be really, really helpful.

01:14:27The first is this.

01:14:28It was about a year and a half ago that the Supreme Court issued an opinion that narrowed

01:14:32the definition of auto dialer under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act.

01:14:36It took huge swaths of these calls out from our oversight.

01:14:40It means we get more junk that is now not accountable.

01:14:44I would like to rework with you on the definition of auto dialer, update it so that we can go

01:14:49after more of these bad actors.

01:14:51We also, in the last year and a half, issued $650 million of fines.

01:14:56That's a lot, but every one of those fines I have to turn over to my colleagues at the

01:14:59Department of Justice, and it takes a really long time for them to go enforce them against

01:15:04those scam artists.

01:15:05I would like to have the authority to do it ourself.

01:15:08And separately, I would like access to data from the Bank Secrecy Act.

01:15:12Increasingly, we are identifying that these scam artists are so sophisticated, they'll

01:15:16set up a company, we find them and shut them down, and they set up something else somewhere

01:15:21else using the same bank accounts.

01:15:23The more that we have access to their financial information, the more we'll be able to shut

01:15:27down large enterprises responsible for this junk.

01:15:31Thank you.

01:15:32I don't have a lot of time left, but would any of the other commissioners like to add

01:15:35to that?

01:15:39Thank you, Counselor, for your leadership on this.

01:15:41One issue that came to mind when we were talking about the connectivity in vehicles

01:15:44that I've been starting to focus a bit more on is, particularly as we see this rush of

01:15:48vehicles coming in from China, when you look at the capacity of connectivity and the surveillance

01:15:52capacity of the information that can be pulled in, I think that's something that merits attention.

01:15:56Because again, we're looking at everything from drones to applications to devices themselves.

01:16:01I think we need to continue to scrutinize this issue as well.

01:16:05I'm out of time, so I'll yield back, Mr. Chair, and submit some more questions for the record.

01:16:10Thank you very much.

01:16:11The gentlelady's time has expired.

01:16:12The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Michigan's Fifth District for five minutes

01:16:16for questions.

01:16:17Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to the witnesses for being here today.

01:16:20We appreciate you taking this time.

01:16:25With the recent Supreme Court Chevron deference decision and the scrutiny of administrative

01:16:31enforcement powers and discretion, do you have, Commissioner Carr, do you have concerns

01:16:39with the FCC's enforcement process, which often lacks due process protections that would

01:16:46require additional congressional action?

01:16:48And if so, how would you reform the FCC's process?

01:16:51I think there's been a number of Supreme Court cases recently that really require the FCC

01:16:58to think about correcting course.

01:17:00One of them is a Supreme Court case called Jarsky, which has to do with administrative

01:17:04agencies and enforcement.

01:17:06I think the FCC should start a proceeding to take a look at our existing enforcement

01:17:11mechanisms to make sure that they align with the constitutional parameters outlined by

01:17:16the Supreme Court.

01:17:17Otherwise, we could be taking enforcement actions that end up getting overturned in

01:17:21court.

01:17:22So I think we need to take a refresh our enforcement procedures right now.

01:17:27Thank you.

01:17:28Chair Rosenworcel, again, my condolences as well with my colleagues.

01:17:33Recently, New York's broadband law was allowed to go into effect, mandating that all fixed

01:17:38broadband providers offer qualifying low-income customers a $15 or $20 service at specified

01:17:46speeds.

01:17:48In past hearings, you've told me you opposed rate regulation.

01:17:52In fact, no asterisks, I'll never forget that.

01:17:57And in your recent order, reclassifying broadband under Title II, you specifically forbeared

01:18:04from rate regulation of any kind.

01:18:06So Madam Chair, does your order preempt states from engaging in rate regulation of broadband

01:18:12and do you support the New York law?

01:18:14Well, first things first, we said no rate regulation as a result of our Title II reclassification.

01:18:21I repeatedly said to you I don't support that, either ex post or ex ante, and apparently

01:18:25I said no asterisks as well.

01:18:29That being said, what you're talking about is a state law that a court let go into effect.

01:18:33There is no petition before us, but we did say in our order that state broadband affordability

01:18:38efforts do not per se violate our rules.

01:18:41We will look at any individual cases if a petition is filed before us, and one is not

01:18:45before us right now.

01:18:48Commissioner Carr, would you like to comment on that?

01:18:50The FCC's Title II decision, regardless of what your view as a policy matter is on that,

01:18:57plainly preempts New York state law.

01:19:00It's true that the FCC said that if a program is labeled as a state broadband affordability,

01:19:04it's not necessarily preempted, but you have to look at the substance, and the substance

01:19:08of the New York law is naked rate regulation, and we should step up and be clear that we

01:19:14don't support rate regulation and that that provision of New York law is preempted by

01:19:19operation of the agency's Title II decision.

01:19:21Well, I'd hope you'd hammer that out as a commission, because frankly, with impunity

01:19:31going against what has been put in place by federal standard, it ought to concern us all.

01:19:38Commissioner Carr, both of us have been long-time champions for boosting our telecommunications

01:19:42workforce.

01:19:43You've climbed towers, I've offered to climb towers, but nobody wants an old guy to go

01:19:48up, I guess.

01:19:51So we need young people out there.

01:19:53I still hear from providers all the time about their workforce struggles as they try to connect

01:19:58people across my district.

01:20:01Do you have an update on what the telecommunications workforce looks like now, and what more can

01:20:06be done, if anything?

01:20:09Thanks for the question.

01:20:11I very much look forward to getting up a tower with you.

01:20:13I think that'll be a lot of fun, happy to come to your district for that.

01:20:17Look, there's billions of dollars, as we've talked about, even putting B to the side,

01:20:21that are going to be rolling out to connect communities, and we are barreling towards

01:20:25a workforce shortage.

01:20:26Again, the $42 billion B dollars haven't hit the ground yet, but when they do, that's going

01:20:32to put a real strain on workforce challenges.

01:20:34And so we need to get ahead of that now.

01:20:36We've been looking to community college programs to stand these up, but we need to sort of

01:20:40move a little faster on that effort.

01:20:43Well, we can all join arms together on that, because frankly, this is now and this is the

01:20:49future we can't get behind.

01:20:51So Mr. Chair, I yield back.

01:20:55Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:20:56I yield back.

01:20:57And the chair now recognizes the gentlelady from California's 16th district for five minutes

01:21:01for questions.

01:21:02Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and our Ranking Member Matsui for holding this important oversight

01:21:09hearing.

01:21:10To the chairwoman, distinguished chairwoman, thank you and welcome, and to each commissioner,

01:21:17it's good to see you all.

01:21:20This may be the last time I participate in an FCC oversight hearing, and I want to thank

01:21:26the commission for the work that you are doing, the work that has been done.

01:21:35It's my 32nd year as a member of the House of Representatives, the great privilege of

01:21:42my life, and 30 years as a member of this subcommittee.

01:21:48So while previous commissioners and chairmen are not in the chamber, I still want to salute

01:21:58them for their work.

01:21:59I'm not going to go through all of the marvelous things that the FCC is doing and has done,

01:22:07this FCC commission.

01:22:09The chairwoman did that magnificently.

01:22:12We should all take pride in that.

01:22:16They are not only proposals, but policies that have been put in place, number one, for

01:22:28our national security.

01:22:31When we take our oath of office to protect and defend, that is you as well as us.

01:22:38That's our number one priority.

01:22:41And I'm proud that the commission finally paid attention under your leadership, Madam

01:22:46Chairwoman.

01:22:47I knocked on the door for a long time to raise the specter of what the Chinese government

01:22:56was not only capable of doing, but was already doing.

01:23:00So I salute you for that.

01:23:06Commissioner Ackar, I want to say a few things to you.

01:23:14It's obvious that I don't agree with you on just about everything you've said today.

01:23:20You know, there's an old saying that there are those who know the price of everything

01:23:25but ignore the cost for those who are affected.

01:23:30I ran for Congress to lift people up, to improve the lives of the American people.

01:23:39And the more American people that are lifted up to share in the dream of this country,

01:23:46the better off we all are.

01:23:50The better off we all are.

01:23:52To disparage the BEAT program and other undertakings of the commission that really look after the

01:24:01working stiffs in this country, I think is just dead wrong.

01:24:07When we push people down, we're hurting ourselves.

01:24:14I think that Commissioner Gomez's testimony of who she has met, who has written to her,

01:24:25is one of their great voices of this country.

01:24:29So I regret that, you know, I mean, it was said this morning by the chairwoman of the

01:24:36full committee, really berating the commission, and yet every single Republican of this subcommittee

01:24:45and full committee voted against expanding broadband in our country.

01:24:54When I say I served here, I have served on this subcommittee for 30 years.

01:24:59For over 20 of those years, Republicans and Democrats were wringing their hands to not

01:25:05only have a map, but that we invest in it.

01:25:10And then when it came time for that to be the dream come true for our country, no.

01:25:20Is that hypocrisy?

01:25:21I don't know what it is.

01:25:24The one thing I know what it is, is that I think it's very wrong.

01:25:29Very wrong.

01:25:31Our country is made up of extraordinary, ordinary people.

01:25:38Extraordinary, ordinary people.

01:25:43And when our policies stray from that, we stray away from the core of what this democracy

01:25:55is all about.

01:25:57So I hope that, let me just give Chairwoman Rosenworcel a moment to accuse the, Commissioner

01:26:06Carr accused the FCC of unjustly revoking a contract with Starlink to provide broadband

01:26:12to over 600,000 homes.

01:26:14Do you want to address that?

01:26:16Sure.

01:26:17First, you've been a formidable voice on this committee, and I'm grateful for the role model

01:26:22you've made, making clear that women can speak up without apology.

01:26:28With respect to what you were speaking about earlier, the last administration made distribution

01:26:34decisions under our rural universal service program two weeks before an election.

01:26:40I inherited those decisions.

01:26:42We did a full financial and technical review of every preliminary winning bidder.

01:26:47We found about a dozen of them did not meet financial or technical marks.

01:26:52If the gentlelady could finish up this...

01:26:54Just one second.

01:26:55One of them was a satellite service because they couldn't consistently meet upload and

01:26:58download downlink speeds.

01:27:01In addition, the company you're mentioning had 6,500 census blocks that were already

01:27:09served or traffic medians or airports or downtown Chicago.

01:27:13If you asked them to take their service out, they refused.

01:27:18Thank you.

01:27:19Thank you.

01:27:20I yield back.

01:27:22The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania's 13th district for five minutes

01:27:27for questions.

01:27:28Thank you, Chairman Latta and Ranking Member Matsui, for holding this oversight hearing.

01:27:32I also appreciate the chairman and all the commissioners for taking time to testify today.

01:27:38Pennsylvania's 13th congressional district, as I've emphasized to you in the past, is

01:27:43incredibly rural.

01:27:45It has hills and hollers, nooks and crannies, surrounded by mountains.

01:27:50I appreciate the efforts that the FCC has taken so far to focus on connecting all Americans,

01:27:57specifically the constituents of Pennsylvania 13.

01:28:01With that comes a responsibility to manage large amounts of grants and federal funding.

01:28:07This funding is going out to providers, not only in my district, but over the entirety

01:28:12of this great land.

01:28:14Senator Rosenworcel, last week the FCC announced that it will not provide broadband relief

01:28:19for RDF and CAF II providers that default on their build-out obligations.

01:28:25I applaud that decision.

01:28:27Providers should be required to fulfill their obligation to the American people.

01:28:32This issue raises an important consideration about the coordination between the FCC and

01:28:38NTIA as the BEAD program is rolled out.

01:28:42How are the two agencies coordinating to ensure that there is not over-building of

01:28:47RDF and CAF build-out locations within the BEAD program?

01:28:53Thank you, Congressman.

01:28:54This is a really important question.

01:28:55We have so many broadband programs.

01:28:57We need to make sure we take those resources and use them in a smart way.

01:29:01We've got two initiatives at the FCC that speak to your question.

01:29:04First, in the last month, I signed again a memorandum of understanding with the Department

01:29:10of Treasury, Department of Agriculture, and Department of Commerce to make sure that we

01:29:13coordinate on all data with our broadband programs.

01:29:17Second, I am producing something called the Broadband Funding Map, and it doesn't get

01:29:21enough attention.

01:29:22It's a map of all of the enforceable commitments under our broadband programs in the United

01:29:27States.

01:29:28We can use that map for accountability, to make sure there's no over-building, and that

01:29:32we make sure we reach everyone.

01:29:34That map is really important, and I encourage every member of this committee to become familiar

01:29:37with it.

01:29:38Thank you.

01:29:40Let me jump right into this discussion.

01:29:41This rollout is going to be the largest investment of a decade, and might be the best chance

01:29:47that we get to connect rural Americans.

01:29:50It is our responsibility to use this opportunity to ensure that my constituents are able to

01:29:55connect to reliable and high-speed Internet.

01:29:59The 5G Fund is another important funding source that enables rural connectivity.

01:30:04It is imperative that the 5G Fund is distributed efficiently, and results in actual 5G wireless

01:30:11services being provided to rural areas.

01:30:14This program is intended to replace portions of current high-cost funds, and millions of

01:30:20rural communities risk losing connectivity if it is not implemented correctly.

01:30:26Commissioner Carr, as written, the 5G Fund uses a minimum of 7-1 speeds.

01:30:32These FCC programs require speed thresholds with higher minimums, reflecting services

01:30:38that consumers want and have come to expect.

01:30:41And 7-1 is clearly low for 5G standards.

01:30:45Are you concerned that lowering the bar on the speed thresholds would degrade the intent

01:30:49of the fund?

01:30:52Thank you, Congressman, for the leadership, and thanks for your work for your district.

01:30:55I've enjoyed the chance to spend some time there with you and a broad roundtable that

01:30:58you organized.

01:31:00With the 5G Fund, I voted previously to move forward with it.

01:31:03I've called for this agency to do it.

01:31:05I think the most important question right now is how do we do so in a way that makes

01:31:08sense with the BEAD program that's underway as well, so that we can align the two programs

01:31:14in a way that makes sense from a timing and other perspective.

01:31:16But you're right, we should be funding services at the end of the day with a 5G Fund that

01:31:21are capable of offering 5G services.

01:31:24Chair Rosenworcel, can it truly be called a 5G Fund if the technical parameters in the

01:31:30current order will not reliably provide 5G services?

01:31:34All right.

01:31:35I want to just acknowledge where we are right now.

01:31:37We have a draft that I put before my colleagues.

01:31:39We are talking about the draft, including service levels, what's viable in different

01:31:43parts of the country, what technologies are going to be used to make sure that we get

01:31:47to everyone.

01:31:48So we're not done with this process yet, and I will make sure that our conversations take

01:31:52what you just said into account.

01:31:53Thank you.

01:31:54We would appreciate that.

01:31:55And if you could make this committee aware as you proceed with that.

01:31:58This must ensure that we are providing federal grants to communities where they are needed.

01:32:03All of us need to be responsible stewards of the taxpayer dollar and providing funds

01:32:08to rural areas, not just large urban centers, where the connectivity will be life-changing

01:32:15and in some cases, truly life-sustaining.

01:32:18I thank all of you for being with us here today and for giving your time, and I yield

01:32:22the balance of my time.

01:32:23Thank you.

01:32:24The gentleman yields back.

01:32:25The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Illinois' 2nd District for 5 minutes for questions.

01:32:31Thank you, Chair Latta and Ranking Member Matsui for holding this important hearing

01:32:34this morning, and I also want to thank the witnesses, commissioners, for their testimony.

01:32:40I know that closing the digital divide in these communities cannot be accomplished without

01:32:44bold, innovative solutions, and that is why I've been supportive of the Affordable Connectivity

01:32:49Program, or ACP, which helps eligible low-income households afford the broadband they needed.

01:32:56The success of this program is undeniable, as nearly 23 million Americans have been enrolled

01:33:02in the program.

01:33:03Similarly, with over 2,000 farms in my district, I am keenly aware of the need to expand broadband

01:33:09connectivity in rural and agricultural areas to ensure farmers can take advantage of the

01:33:15benefits of precision agriculture.

01:33:18Commissioner Starks, can you share how the FCC is working to bring connectivity to our

01:33:22country's agricultural areas, and what role do you see fixed wireless technology playing

01:33:28in helping connect rural America?

01:33:30Yes, thank you so much for the question.

01:33:32I attended the Farm Progress Show in Decatur, Illinois, many years ago, and so I might have

01:33:37met some of the farmers that are in your district there and heard directly from them what they

01:33:43need for their farms, for precision agriculture, what they need to keep family members who

01:33:48and their way of life.

01:33:50And so, so much of what we're doing, I think the 5G Mobility Fund will make a play on how

01:33:54we're going to help get agricultural better connected.

01:33:58Obviously, the RDOF that we've discussed here today also has a real play, but as you pinpointed

01:34:04as well, I think fixed wireless is going to absolutely has grown exponentially.

01:34:08I've seen it as my time as a commissioner, and we'll continue to play a large role.

01:34:12Thank you very much.

01:34:13Shifting gears to the FCC's upcoming July Open Commission meeting, where it was recently

01:34:18announced that the agency would consider the implementation of Martha Wright Reid Act,

01:34:23of the Martha Wright Reid Act, and how to adopt just and reasonable rate caps for incarcerated

01:34:28people's audio and video communication services.

01:34:33Delivering these reforms and ultimately providing relief to incarcerated persons and their families

01:34:38is critical, especially if there have been reports that hundreds of county jails around

01:34:43the U.S. have eliminated in-person visits, making often pricey video calls the only

01:34:48visual connection between detainees and their family.

01:34:52Chairwoman, I am encouraged to see the FCC will be considering rules to implement the

01:34:57bipartisan Martha Wright Reid Act at the agency's July Open meeting.

01:35:01To level set, can you explain the importance of this act, championed in the House by my

01:35:06friend, Representative Bobby Rush, and how incarcerated people, their families, and

01:35:13all of our communities benefit from these rules?

01:35:16It was almost two years ago that a grandmother, Martha Wright, wrote us and complained that

01:35:21she was paying absolutely serious amounts to stay in touch with her grandson who was

01:35:25incarcerated.

01:35:26When the agency looked into it, we found that for a single call, lots of families were paying

01:35:30more than you and I pay for our monthly unlimited plans.

01:35:34That's not right, and it doesn't just harm families of the incarcerated, it harms all

01:35:38of us because regular contact with family and kin reduces recidivism.

01:35:43Now, for years, we've tried to fix this problem.

01:35:46We've gone back and forth with the courts, but finally, former Congressman Rush, along

01:35:50with Senator Duckworth, there's a lot of Illinois here, came forward and said, here's some authority

01:35:56to help you fix that problem.

01:35:57This month, I'm proud to report that I expect our agency to do just that.

01:36:02Thank you so much.

01:36:04I am committed to ensuring that incarcerated people can communicate with their loved ones

01:36:08without having to worry about unfair, exorbitant fees, so please know that my staff plans to

01:36:13follow up with you all to learn more about the agency's work in this space.

01:36:17Lastly, I want to know that there's been quite a lot of discussion recently about the FCC

01:36:22starting a proceeding to consider banning or otherwise limiting bulk billing arrangements

01:36:28in multi-premises environments.

01:36:30From the comments I've received from my district, such an effort could raise concerns.

01:36:35They tell me bulk deals help keep prices low and give them higher performance broadband

01:36:41and ending these deals could eliminate these benefits, but I also understand that there

01:36:45are many variations of what these arrangements could look like, and in some cases, they may

01:36:50be driving consumer frustration.

01:36:52I recognize the FCC has yet to adopt a proposal and seek comment on it, so I will continue

01:36:58to monitor the FCC's efforts on this issue and the comments the agency receives to ensure

01:37:03the agency is putting consumers' interests first.

01:37:06With that, I yield back.

01:37:08Thank you.

01:37:09This generally yields back a balance of your time.

01:37:12The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Florida's 12th District for five minutes for

01:37:16questions.

01:37:17Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:37:18I appreciate it very much.

01:37:20To follow up with Mrs. Kelly, you can see this is a bipartisan issue.

01:37:25Chair Rosenworcel, you recently announced on NPRM that would prevent bulk billing arrangements

01:37:35between broadband providers and housing communities.

01:37:39Since that announcement, I have received letters from 140 constituents unanimously in opposition

01:37:46to the proposal, fearing it would significantly increase costs, so I'm glad that Mrs. Kelly

01:37:52brought this up as well.

01:37:53It's a great concern for our seniors.

01:37:56The vast majority of these messages come from those residing, again, in senior living communities

01:38:02on fixed incomes, particularly now with the inflation being so very high, it's so very

01:38:10difficult for our seniors.

01:38:13An FCC report and order in 2010 aligns with these constituent concerns, stating, and I

01:38:19quote, it would be a disservice to the public interest if, in order to benefit a few residents,

01:38:27we prohibited bulk billing because so doing would result in higher MVPD service charges

01:38:38for the vast majority of multi-dwellings unit residents who are content with such arrangements.

01:38:46And I have a letter from Timber Pines.

01:38:49Timber Pines is an adult community, senior community in my district in Spring Hill, Florida.

01:38:57Many letters from Timber Pines.

01:39:00How is it in the public interest, Commissioner, Chair, to directly cause increased rates for

01:39:07a significant number of Americans under this proposal?

01:39:10Sure.

01:39:11I think we can all agree that broadband is an essential service.

01:39:15We also have policies in place that prevent there from being exclusives in apartment buildings

01:39:20that lock up an apartment building so that folks can't get any other provider and benefit

01:39:25from competition.

01:39:27One-third of the people in this country live in apartment buildings or multi-unit dwellings.

01:39:31That's a lot of people.

01:39:32But what we're finding now is they're bypassing those exclusive prohibitions and just baking

01:39:38it into the rent or assessment fees on each apartment and unit.

01:39:43And so what I've received as the chair of the agency are a lot of complaints from consumers

01:39:48who say, everyone else gets competition.

01:39:50Why don't I get competition?

01:39:51Why do I have to pay for this service if I don't want to use it?

01:39:55So what we've proposed is a rulemaking to ask those questions, mindful that there are

01:39:59some constituents, including folks like the ones you described, who might like these services.

01:40:05But it's been 14 years since we looked at this issue, and 14 years in broadband is a

01:40:09long time.

01:40:10We want everyone to have the benefit of competition.

01:40:13So opening this issue up for public comment, I think, is the right thing to do.

01:40:17Well, keep in mind, again, these seniors are on fixed incomes.

01:40:24I promise you that we will do that as we proceed.

01:40:27Please.

01:40:28Commissioner Carr, what's your take on this proposal?

01:40:31I think the FCC should withdraw this proposal.

01:40:34I think it could only raise the prices for Americans living in these types of buildings.

01:40:40And I think when you think about competition, the building or premises owner have a lot

01:40:45of market power.

01:40:46And in fact, they are competing in a market for services that is very robust.

01:40:50So if you were to prohibit bulk billing, you'd be going from a really frothy competitive

01:40:56environment and force people to get broadband services in a relatively less competitive

01:41:02environment.

01:41:03So it's bad for competition, and it's bad for prices.

01:41:06I don't think right now is the time when we should be saddling Americans with that.

01:41:10The FCC has looked at this issue multiple times over the years and found that they do

01:41:14more good than harm, and I think we should stick with that.

01:41:18Thank you.

01:41:19Thank you, sir.

01:41:20I still have a couple more minutes.

01:41:23Not a couple, but quite a few seconds.

01:41:26Commissioner Carr, we are constantly trying to ensure our international leadership in

01:41:30various industries, including the wireless marketplace.

01:41:35What effect will the FCC's Title II order have on American leadership in wireless technology?

01:41:41Well, I think it's a headwind, right?

01:41:43It only makes it harder to build out and invest.

01:41:46And more broadly, I think if you look at this administration, it's fallen into a real deep

01:41:50malaise when it comes to one of these most important considerations for economic growth,

01:41:55which is wireless.

01:41:57Right now, we have no plan to turn things around.

01:42:01Even though we do have a lapse general spectrum auction authority, we do have authority still

01:42:05to auction spectrum.

01:42:06In fact, just last week, the FCC missed a statutory deadline to auction 30 megahertz

01:42:12of spectrum because the Commerce Department in 2022 failed to meet a 2015-era statutory

01:42:20deadline imposed by Congress for identifying that specific 30 megahertz.

01:42:25So not only do we not have auction authority, but the administration isn't taking the steps

01:42:29that would let us move forward with auctions even when we do still have authority.

01:42:33Thank you very much.

01:42:34And I'll yield back, Mr. Chairman.

01:42:35I appreciate it.

01:42:36Thank you.

01:42:37The Chairman's time has expired.

01:42:38The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from New York's 9th District.

01:42:42Five minutes for questions.

01:42:45Let me thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank our Ranking Member.

01:42:49Thank our commissioners for appearing before us today.

01:42:52Let me thank you for all of your hard work and your dedication.

01:42:57Under the leadership of Chairwoman Rosenworcel, this commission has done critical work to

01:43:02protect consumers and our communications networks, promote innovation, and ensure access to high-speed,

01:43:09affordable Internet connectivity is a reality for all Americans.

01:43:15Due to the work of the Democrats on this committee, the FCC, until recently, responsible for administering

01:43:21one of the most successful programs in bridging the digital divide, the Affordable Connectivity

01:43:26Program, and now awaiting some movement to get this program back in place.

01:43:35As I've noted at countless hearings over the last year, the undeniable success of the ACP

01:43:41brought affordable, high-speed broadband across to more than 23 million households.

01:43:48Unfortunately, House Republican leadership has blocked bipartisan, bicameral legislation

01:43:54to save the ACP from receiving consideration on the floor of the House and funding for

01:44:00the ACP lapsed over a month ago, leaving millions of households forced to choose between paying

01:44:05for broadband or other essentials like food and medication.

01:44:10Despite the continued Republican blockade of critical funding to the ACP, I remain hopeful

01:44:17that we can come together in a bipartisan manner to save this critical program and to

01:44:22close the digital divide once and for all.

01:44:25My first question this morning is on the mechanics of the potential restart of the Affordable

01:44:30Connectivity Program.

01:44:31One concern with allowing ACP funding to lapse, even temporarily, has been the potential cost

01:44:37of re-enrollment.

01:44:39It is essential that we do not lose the sense of urgency regarding ACP funding.

01:44:44If we allow the ACP to remain inactive for more than a few months, we must keep in mind

01:44:50the enormous strain the increased cost of service is having on families and remember

01:44:55that any attempt to restart or refresh the program after a long pause would require a

01:45:01significant undertaking to re-engage skeptical households that previously relied on the ACP

01:45:08before the lapse in funding.

01:45:09So Chair Rosenwasser, with the lapse in ACP funding, are we still within the window of

01:45:15time where restarting the ACP program would not require significant investment in re-enrollment

01:45:21of subscribers?

01:45:22And if so, how much time do we have left?

01:45:25Yes, well thank you for your leadership on this issue and like you, I'm an optimist.

01:45:30We can get this done.

01:45:31We have systems still in place at our administrator.

01:45:33We still know every benefit qualifying individual that signed up for this program and we've

01:45:38got hundreds of outreach partners across the country who are ready to go if Congress finds

01:45:44a way to continue this program.

01:45:46I will keep you posted before we turn any of those systems off.

01:45:49Again, I'm still hopeful that Congress will be able to refund this program because it's

01:45:54been so consequential when it comes to ending the digital divide.

01:45:57Likewise, and thank you so much Chairwoman.

01:46:01In addition to equitable access to broadband services, one of my top priorities for years

01:46:06has been increasing the diversity and independence of the media marketplace.

01:46:11To that end, I was very pleased to see the Commission's May announcement of the NPRM

01:46:16on fostering independent and diverse sources of video programming.

01:46:21The inclusion of unreasonable alternative distribution methods, ADM, and the Most Favored

01:46:27Nation provisions in carriage agreements can prove significant obstacles for independent

01:46:33programmers seeking carriage on both multi-channel video programming distributors, or MVPDs,

01:46:40and online platforms.

01:46:42While innovations in the marketplace have given consumers multiple ways to consume video

01:46:46content, carriage on MVPDs remain critical for networks of all sizes, especially emerging

01:46:55media companies.

01:46:56So Chairwoman, what is the FCC doing, or what can it do, to ensure independent programmers

01:47:02can equitably compete for carriage, and how do you see the marketplace for independent

01:47:08programmers on MVPDs and online video distribution platforms evolving?

01:47:14And Commissioner Starks and Gomez are welcome to offer your thoughts as well.

01:47:19The ways we watch are changing.

01:47:21Every one of us now can bring up what we want when we want it on any piece of glass handy,

01:47:25and yet there are old problems that persist.

01:47:29On traditional channel lineups, new voices, independent programmers can't always get a

01:47:34fair shot.

01:47:35We hear that over and over again.

01:47:37So two months ago, we started a new rulemaking on this to get an updated record to understand

01:47:42what the problem looks like in this new media environment.

01:47:46We can keep you posted as the record develops.

01:47:48Yes, the only thing I would add...

01:47:50Pardon me.

01:47:51About 10 seconds, because the gentleman's time has expired.

01:47:55Yes, sir.

01:47:56The only thing I would add, in the media space, the last time we looked at this was 2016.

01:48:00Any time you're talking about such a long gap, it's worthwhile for us to have a refresh.

01:48:05Very well.

01:48:06And Mr. Chairman, I yield back, but I just wanted to ask Commissioner Gomez, if you have

01:48:11comments, would you send them to us in writing, because my time has elapsed.

01:48:15Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:48:16I yield back.

01:48:17Thank you very much.

01:48:18The gentlelady's time has expired, and the Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Georgia's

01:48:2112th.

01:48:22We're five minutes for questions.

01:48:25Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening this hearing of the FY25 Federal Communications

01:48:31Commission Agency Budget, and I want to thank the Commissioners for being here today.

01:48:36I'd like to start by recognizing the Commission for their unanimous adoption of the declaratory

01:48:45ruling in February, which recognized that calls made with AI-generated voices are artificial

01:48:50under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act.

01:48:54So thank you for that.

01:48:55Yesterday, I introduced my Creating Legal and Ethical AI Recording Voices, or Clear

01:49:02Voices Act.

01:49:03This bill would amend the Communications Act of 1934 to establish technical and procedural

01:49:09standards for artificial or pre-recorded voice systems created through generative artificial

01:49:15intelligence.

01:49:16Consistently, some of the biggest concerns I hear from constituents are regarding the

01:49:21robocalls, scam calls, and texts.

01:49:26With the increasing use of AI in communication, maintaining public trust is crucial, and Clear

01:49:32Voices Act takes great strides in doing that.

01:49:36Chair Rosenworcel, the FCC released a notice of proposed rulemaking to prohibit all early

01:49:43termination fees imposed by cable and direct broadcast service providers.

01:49:50When President Biden's statement, in connection with his junk fees executive order, proposed

01:49:56addressing ETFs only to the extent that they are unjust or unreasonable, which appropriately

01:50:02recognizes the contractual nature of ETFs and the benefits customers receive when opting

01:50:09for term contracts, would not be more appropriate for the FCC to instead address only unjust

01:50:15or unreasonable ETF practices such as failure to fully disclose them and not just implement

01:50:22an outright ban?

01:50:24So we have an open proceeding on this.

01:50:26We haven't made a decision yet.

01:50:27We have lots of consumers who complain about early termination fees.

01:50:30They signed up for a contract, but then they got saddled with some big lump sum they had

01:50:35to pay when they want to get out of it.

01:50:37We're trying to understand what the scope of what is reasonable is there.

01:50:40That's why we have an open proceeding on this subject.

01:50:42I appreciate what you said.

01:50:43We will make sure we take it into consideration.

01:50:46The draft NPRM does not explain how an outright ban of ETFs would be reasonable given the

01:50:52cost savings and other consumer benefits available through term contracts with ETFs and given

01:50:58the month-to-month service options also available to consumers.

01:51:02How do you justify removing customers' options to choose to get a discount in exchange for

01:51:07agreeing to take service for a specified time period?

01:51:11That's why we're having a rulemaking.

01:51:12We're asking to try to identify what is reasonable under the context.

01:51:17That's the purpose of having a rulemaking.

01:51:18That's the purpose of asking the public.

01:51:20I hope we can shape the definition of reasonable as part of that effort.

01:51:24Mr. Carr, the chairwoman has announced plans to move forward with the 5G fund while closing

01:51:29the digital divide that exists in rural America.

01:51:33I'm worried that adding the 5G fund on top of the Rural Digital Opportunity Fund, the

01:51:37Bede Fund, the Capital Projects Fund, and the ReConnect program would lead to wasted

01:51:42funding instead of connectivity.

01:51:44Do you see this overwhelming amount of broadband dollars as a reason for concern as the FCC

01:51:49considers the rules for the 5G fund?

01:51:52Thanks Congressman for the question.

01:51:54I've supported before moving forward with the 5G fund, but you're right.

01:51:57There's been sort of a sea change in the amount of federal support that's out there since

01:52:01then, not just the $42 billion of Bede, but by my count, we've made over $800 billion

01:52:07available that could be used for infrastructure, including broadband infrastructure.

01:52:12So as we proceed with the 5G fund, we have to do so very mindful of all these other programs

01:52:17and how do we make sure we move forward in a smart, coordinated way, and those are still

01:52:22issues I think that need to be worked out.

01:52:24Wouldn't it be wise to wait until the Bede funding is at least partially deployed so

01:52:29that 5G fund is available to fill in the gaps instead of duplicate funding?

01:52:34That's one of the arguments that we're looking at very closely is how do you align this with Bede?

01:52:39There is the argument that if you wait until after Bede, you could potentially have the

01:52:425G fund go further.

01:52:44Others argue that they want to move forward sooner in order to take advantage of the connectivity

01:52:48that will be enabled and that sort of wrestling of those issues is what we're sort of looking

01:52:52at right now.

01:52:53Chair Rosenworcel, with the NTIA Bede funding program set to approve most, if not all, state

01:53:01proposals by the end of July, the FCC's national broadband map is a critical component in making

01:53:06those decisions as the FCC continues to update and refine the NBM.

01:53:11How does the FCC plan to address providers who overstate coverage?

01:53:16If you willfully or maliciously overstate your coverage, we will send you to our Enforcement

01:53:21Bureau and we will take action.

01:53:22We've already done so.

01:53:24We are also using all available processes to make sure that that data is accurate, including

01:53:30challenges from state, local authorities, other carriers, and consumers.

01:53:35We welcome any information that you have from your office and we can incorporate that into

01:53:38our mapping efforts.

01:53:39Good.

01:53:40Thank you.

01:53:41My time is up.

01:53:42I yield back.

01:53:43Thank you.

01:53:44The gentleman's time has expired and the Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from New Hampshire's

01:53:472nd District for five minutes for questions.

01:53:50Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:53:51I want to start by thanking all of the commissioners for being with us today.

01:53:55It's clear the agency has gotten straight to work.

01:53:58From the implementation of the Safe Connections Act, which I helped pass to protect survivors

01:54:03of domestic violence, to its work fighting robocalls and protecting Americans from harmful

01:54:10scams.

01:54:11The FCC also administered, as we've discussed today, the Affordable Connectivity Program,

01:54:16making broadband more affordable for 22 million American households, including nearly 40,000

01:54:22in my district in New Hampshire.

01:54:24But my Republican colleagues continue to refuse to fund this program, leading to millions

01:54:30of Americans losing access to affordable broadband that they rely upon.

01:54:35As Chairwoman of the New Democrat Coalition, I led multiple letters with our members to

01:54:39House and Senate leadership, urging them to put politics aside and fund the ACP.

01:54:46I will continue fighting to fund the ACP.

01:54:48In the 21st century, access to reliable, affordable internet is not a luxury, it is

01:54:54a necessity, including, I might add, for our own defense.

01:54:59When we're talking about recruitment, and we are falling short of our recruitment goals,

01:55:05how the hell would somebody sign up to serve in our military if they did not have access

01:55:12to the internet?

01:55:14From connecting job seekers to employers to accessing telehealth services and education,

01:55:19the ACP has helped millions of hardworking Americans stay connected.

01:55:24As a founder and co-chair of the Bipartisan Mental Health and Substance Use Disorder Task

01:55:29Force, I'm committed to ensuring that individuals in crisis can access the help they need when

01:55:35they need it.

01:55:36The 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is an important first step in these efforts.

01:55:42But while this lifeline may help to connect callers to resources, these resources aren't

01:55:47guaranteed to be local.

01:55:50Currently, if someone calls 988 from the state of New Hampshire, their 603 phone number,

01:55:56their call will be routed to local crisis centers in New Hampshire, even if they find

01:56:00themselves far from the Granite State and in need of local assistance.

01:56:05Commissioner Stark, can you speak to how the FCC is working to address this issue and what

01:56:10more needs to be done?

01:56:11Yes, thank you so much for the question.

01:56:14Thank you for your leadership and hard work on this critical issue.

01:56:18It's been just about two years now that 988 has been up and running, and we've continued

01:56:23to build on that tremendous success, nearly 10 million calls that we've had.

01:56:27We continue to make sure that folks that are dealing with this life crisis have a place

01:56:32that they can call.

01:56:33And so, to your point, making sure that they can interact with a local counselor is something

01:56:39that we've heard from mental health advocates, and that's where we're pushing for our policy

01:56:46making to go.

01:56:47The last thing that I'd say is just, it has been such a cooperative effort between industry,

01:56:52mental health, HHS, SAMHSA, everybody here has been working so hard together for the

01:56:57American people that are in crisis this way.

01:57:00And do you think there's some kind of option where they could say where their location

01:57:05is and it wouldn't just be driven by the area code?

01:57:08It would not be driven by the area code, it would be based upon where the cell phone is

01:57:14pinging off of.

01:57:15Okay, great.

01:57:16That's very helpful.

01:57:17Thank you so much, and we look forward to working with you.

01:57:20Chairwoman Rosenworcel, as Congress works to restore the FCC's spectrum auction authority,

01:57:26can you explain what role the FCC plays in setting technical rules for particular spectrum

01:57:31bans, and are there specific factors that Congress should keep in mind?

01:57:37I think our record on this is extraordinary.

01:57:40We are the first country in the world to auction off airwaves.

01:57:44We are the first country in the world to hold incentive auctions.

01:57:48We are the first country in the world to have creative, dynamic sharing systems to allow

01:57:54for hierarchies of spectrum rights.

01:57:57We are the first country in the world to take garbage unused spectrum and turn it into unlicensed

01:58:02airwaves which are used for Wi-Fi.

01:58:04In other words, the record of the United States and the FCC to take airwaves and put

01:58:08them to market is second to none.

01:58:11The challenge we face going forward is there are more things we are connecting wirelessly,

01:58:15more people, more places, more things.

01:58:18And the reality is we're going to need more spectrum to continue to fuel that.

01:58:22So what we'll need from Congress is renewing that spectrum authority, and we'll need some

01:58:27details on which bans you think we should approach next, and convert perhaps from federal

01:58:33use to new commercial use.

01:58:35Great.

01:58:36Very helpful.

01:58:37Thank you.

01:58:38I'll just close by saying broadband is an essential service in today's digital world,

01:58:42and I appreciate all of the work that you all are doing to make it more accessible and

01:58:48affordable for our constituents.

01:58:50Thank you so much.

01:58:51And with that, I yield back.

01:58:53One second.

01:58:54Thank you.

01:58:55The gentlelady yields back, and the chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Tennessee's

01:58:58First District for five minutes for questions.

01:59:01Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:59:02Thank you, witnesses, for being here today.

01:59:06You know, the First District of Tennessee is home to a large amount of federal lands,

01:59:11specifically the Great Smoky Mountain National Park and Cherokee National Forests, and updating

01:59:16wireless Internet infrastructure on federal lands is currently bogged down in the red

01:59:20tape of NEPA and the National Historic Preservation Act.

01:59:25And I can tell you firsthand, some of the most difficult places in my district to get

01:59:29quality service is going to be the Great Smoky Mountains and Cherokee National Forests,

01:59:34and that's just hurting our communities.

01:59:37In February, I introduced the Wireless Broadband Competition and Efficient Deployment Act,

01:59:44which rolled back the red tape, keeping these communities on federal lands from getting

01:59:49the infrastructure to stay connected.

01:59:53And my question is for you, Commissioner Carr, how important is it for Congress to take an

01:59:58active role in tearing down these barriers to broadband deployment, like overburdened

02:00:03some and sometimes ridiculous permitting requirements?

02:00:07Thanks Congresswoman for your leadership, particularly on federal lands where it simply

02:00:11takes too long and costs too much to build out.

02:00:14I was just on another national park myself last week, Shenandoah, and had virtually no

02:00:19cell phone service.

02:00:20In fact, I had to climb this small little tower to get any service at all, and I ended

02:00:23up climbing that mountain a lot.

02:00:26Fairly addicted to the internet.

02:00:27And so I think we need to move forward with legislation and leadership that you're showing

02:00:31in generally taking a look at permitting reform.

02:00:34Look, we've been spending a lot of money, $800 billion again by my count, $42 billion

02:00:39if you look at BEAD, but we're not streamlining permitting.

02:00:43That's just like stepping on the gas and the brakes at the same time.

02:00:45We've got to get serious about the types of reforms that you've been leading on.

02:00:49Thank you, sir.

02:00:51Let me follow up with another question for you, Commissioner Carr.

02:00:54There's general acceptance of the security risk posed by reliance on China to power U.S.

02:01:02communications.

02:01:03Are you at all concerned that these Chinese-made communication chips may create vulnerabilities

02:01:08or security concerns for the U.S.?

02:01:11Yeah, look, I think when you look at the CCP, they aren't just simply coming at us through

02:01:17one vector, even one technology vector.

02:01:20It is a thousand different things that they are doing to try to prod and exploit vulnerabilities.

02:01:25We've taken action on the device layer, Huawei ZTE, at the carrier level, China Mobile, but

02:01:30there's more to do, including data centers as well.

02:01:34Your point about chips is exactly right, and I think that can help feed into our proposal

02:01:39to look at labs and certification bodies that are going to be reviewing the components to

02:01:44make sure that those labs are themselves trustworthy.

02:01:47We need to play defense across all of these different areas of technology, because we're

02:01:54getting prodded by the CCP across all of them.

02:01:56You don't have to tell me anything, that's nothing new.

02:02:00So I guess another question, you can answer it, Commissioner Carr.

02:02:04What methodologies can the FCC or other federal agencies deploy to ensure that broadband programs

02:02:10are making accessible, connected devices that are verified and can be trusted?

02:02:14Leads into what you just said.

02:02:16One thing we can do is complete our proceeding that's looking at these TCBs and labs.

02:02:21I think another step that I've called for is for the FCC to look at the entities we

02:02:24do regulate and prohibit them from interconnecting with insecure entities, including China Mobile

02:02:31and China Telecom, to the extent that they're not even offering necessarily Title I or Title

02:02:35II services.

02:02:37I think that's one thing that the FCC should be doing.

02:02:39Yeah, no joke.

02:02:41In the past year, the FCC has adopted rules governing broadband labels, digital discrimination,

02:02:47net neutrality, and data breaches, and you're considering more rules in these areas than

02:02:52in other areas, like outage reporting.

02:02:55So my question is, can a company with 20, 30, 50 employees really keep up with all of

02:03:02this without significant burdens to that company?

02:03:06We want them to survive, but how can they do that?

02:03:09I think what people lose sight of is that the broadband builders in this country that

02:03:12are truly bridging the digital divide in rural communities, it's not these large corporate

02:03:17behemoths.

02:03:18In many cases, it's mom-and-pop operations, small 20-person operations, and they are confronting

02:03:23a regulatory onslaught from Washington.

02:03:26We need to sort of decrease that regulation, and that will help unleash their ability to

02:03:30build.

02:03:31Look, they're already dealing with inflation.

02:03:32They're already dealing with high fuel prices, and then on top of that, we're raising the

02:03:37regulatory costs.

02:03:38Again, BEAT, I think, is a perfect example where the Biden administration has been layering

02:03:42on all of these regulatory costs that Congress specifically either prohibited them from doing

02:03:47or didn't authorize them to do, and price controls is a piece of that.

02:03:51Right now, the administration is holding up applications from Tennessee and from other

02:03:56states, but we just got a letter from Tennessee saying that the Biden administration is compelling

02:04:00them to engage in price controls and rate regulation as a condition to getting the money

02:04:05that they're owed through BEAT.

02:04:06That is just unnecessarily slowing things down in addition to being bad policy.

02:04:12You agree, decrease the permitting regulations and just regulations in general.

02:04:17Okay, I agree.

02:04:19With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

02:04:20The general's time has expired, and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas's

02:04:2433rd district for five minutes for questions.

02:04:28Thank you, Chairman Lata, and I want to thank the commissioners for being here again.

02:04:31It probably will not come as a surprise to some of the commissioners on the panel that

02:04:36I want to talk with you today about ACP and about the fact that ACP has lowered internet

02:04:41bills for 23 million American families, which I think is great because I represent a district

02:04:46in the Dallas-Fort Worth area that is largely lower income, and I also think that it's great

02:04:53too for my Republican colleagues because the data shows that in rural areas that they represent

02:04:59that even more people have signed up for ACP.

02:05:03So I think that it has been a win-win for people all around the country, and we all

02:05:10know that the expiration of the ACP is an issue that is really going to hurt these 23

02:05:16million families, and I'm very concerned about that.

02:05:19Also concerned about the fact that Republican leadership hasn't advanced any legislation

02:05:24whatsoever for their rural constituents or the constituents that I represent to make

02:05:30sure that this lifeline doesn't expire, and as a result, funding ran out in June and prices

02:05:38have gone up for nearly about 70,000 people in the district that I represent just in the

02:05:43Dallas-Fort Worth area.

02:05:44So imagine again how that impacts people from all around the country.

02:05:49And so I have a question for Chairwoman Rosenworcel.

02:05:55Has the FCC heard directly from impacted consumers that are having to navigate this

02:06:01new post-ACP world?

02:06:04I was wondering if you could kind of weigh in on that, and Commissioner Starks and Gomez

02:06:09are also welcome to join in.

02:06:11Thank you.

02:06:12Yeah, we've heard from lots and lots of consumers.

02:06:15We've seen a 40% increase in the number of complaints about billing and charges related

02:06:20to ACP.

02:06:22These are people who are angry, upset, and bewildered by the fact this program's come

02:06:26to an end.

02:06:27They're from rural America, urban America, and everything in between.

02:06:30A disproportionate number of them are elderly, single parents, and retired military.

02:06:36We got heartbreaking emails that come to my inbox every day, and I know that Commissioner

02:06:42Starks and Commissioner Gomez spoke eloquently about this in their statement, so I'd love

02:06:45it if they could continue the discussion.

02:06:47Yes, thank you.

02:06:50I agree with all that.

02:06:52The numbers simply show that one in six households in America are enrolled.

02:06:57That's a big number, and that's impacting a lot of folks.

02:06:59One thing that I'd like to highlight for you, Congressman, one of the initiatives that I

02:07:03had was Your Home, Your Internet, making sure that those that were in federal housing assistance,

02:07:10HUD housing, Section 8 housing, that they knew about the program, they automatically

02:07:14were qualified.

02:07:15When I started that initiative, about 500,000 eligible households were enrolled.

02:07:20After the momentum that the FCC gained on it, nearly 2 million at the time of the freeze

02:07:26were enrolled.

02:07:27It is a real number of folks that started to know about the program, see what it could

02:07:32benefit for them, for telehealth, telemedicine, for young learners.

02:07:36I wanted to highlight that in the work that we've done coordinating with HUD, which is

02:07:40extraordinarily important.

02:07:44Thank you, Congressman.

02:07:45By the way, thank you for the call as well.

02:07:47I enjoyed speaking with you very much.

02:07:50I absolutely agree with everything that the Chairwoman and Commissioner Starks have said.

02:07:54We are hearing from consumers heartbreaking emails that we get from them just about every

02:07:59day.

02:08:00In addition, when we go visit localities, we hear from parents who are extremely worried

02:08:05about how they're going to afford connectivity for their children.

02:08:08We hear from seniors who are relying on the ACP in order to maintain connections.

02:08:13We hear from the veterans.

02:08:15This is both urban and rural areas nationwide, so it is a significant problem.

02:08:20As I mentioned earlier, I have lived with not having the resources to pay my bills,

02:08:26having to make the difficult decision between paying for food or paying for a phone bill.

02:08:31This was before connectivity became so crucial to our daily lives.

02:08:36This is a significant issue.

02:08:37Thank you for your leadership.

02:08:38Absolutely.

02:08:39I also wanted to ask you all, if Congress is able to fund the ACP before the end of

02:08:44July, can the program be restarted using possible bridge funding of $7 billion to $8 billion?

02:08:53Do you think it also makes sense to include ACP in an update to the USF?

02:09:01Thank you for that question.

02:09:02First of all, I very much encourage the efforts on updating the USF.

02:09:07We want to make sure that it is sustainable, and putting ACP as part of the USF funding

02:09:14would make it sustainable as well, and then we wouldn't have to have these conversations

02:09:17every few months.

02:09:19To answer your first question, bridge funding would certainly be helpful, and if Congress

02:09:24passed it by the end of July, I would probably come here and do cartwheels.

02:09:28Thank you very much.

02:09:29Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

02:09:30Well, thank you very much, gentlemen.

02:09:32The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Iowa for five minutes for questions.

02:09:38Thank you, Chair Latta and Ranking Member Matsui for holding this hearing today, and

02:09:42I want to also thank the witnesses for testifying before this committee.

02:09:46Hearing some very harsh language from the other side of the aisle, perhaps if we prioritized

02:09:50our spending, we wouldn't be worried about whether or not we get the money, but all I

02:09:54know is rampant $1.9 trillion COVID spending at the beginning of this Biden-Harris administration

02:09:59led to rampant inflation, which has led to 20% cost increases and has led to record high

02:10:05interest rates, which are really challenging everybody.

02:10:09Having grown up in a very humble family, having to decide whether or not I could afford food

02:10:12or something else, very necessary.

02:10:15I know those challenges.

02:10:17Commissioner Carr, in your testimony, you stated that the BEAD initiative is the slowest

02:10:21moving federal broadband deployment program in recent history, specifically $42 billion

02:10:28967 days since it was signed into law.

02:10:31Not one person, home or business has been connected to the internet with these dollars.

02:10:37No construction projects will even start, according to the president, until 2025 and

02:10:44many in 2026.

02:10:46Can you explain how the Biden-Harris administration's decision to add additional red tape is causing

02:10:51unnecessary delays and jeopardizing the program?

02:10:54Thank you for the question.

02:10:55I'll start as well with your point about ACP and spending.

02:10:58Look, the FCC did its own survey and it found that of this $17 billion, only 15% of people

02:11:06said that they would lose internet service if the program expired.

02:11:08So I think as people in Congress focus on ACP, let's focus on the 15% or whatever number

02:11:14really needs it, rather than simply pouring more money into that existing program in its

02:11:19current form.

02:11:20With respect to BEAD, $42 billion in a promise to connect millions of Americans and 967 days

02:11:27later not even a shovel worth of dirt has been turned.

02:11:30Some people have said we should measure that program by its intention to connect millions

02:11:34of Americans.

02:11:35I think we should measure it based on its results and right now it's off the rails.

02:11:40We are looking at DEI requirements, climate change requirements, price controls.

02:11:45Right now the Biden administration is going back and forth with Virginia that wants the

02:11:48money to move forward saying you didn't put enough of a thumb on the scale for a price

02:11:52control.

02:11:53Please rewrite it this way.

02:11:54The same thing with Tennessee.

02:11:55So rather than staying laser focused on just getting Americans across the digital divide,

02:12:01we're wasting time on things that have nothing to do with connecting them.

02:12:06Do you think the program will be a success, more importantly?

02:12:09And then how do we define success?

02:12:11To me it should be defined by the number of households, the number of businesses that

02:12:15have been connected.

02:12:17I think BEED is a program that's worth fighting for, but it needs a course correction.

02:12:21We can still do it.

02:12:23Let's stop trying to pursue DEI and just bridge the digital divide.

02:12:27Let's stop pushing these climate change agendas and just connect communities.

02:12:30If we can do those things and get rid of the extraneous political improvising, I think

02:12:36this program will get closer to getting back on track.

02:12:40Commissioner Symington, you indicated in your testimony that the Universal Service Fund

02:12:44is in urgent need of reform.

02:12:46How would you reform the USF, both in terms of distribution and contributions?

02:12:51Absolutely.

02:12:52So the Universal Service Fund, of course, dates back to the Telecommunications Act of

02:12:5796 at a time when the landline market was a lot bigger than it is now.

02:13:01Thus, on the front end of contributions, it's very difficult to fund a growing program out

02:13:07of a shrinking base.

02:13:08Now, if you look at what the landline network was supposed to do, Universal Service says

02:13:14it was supposed to connect all Americans in a single network.

02:13:16In fact, it was to be a network that was intercompatible with all the networks worldwide.

02:13:21And thus, it benefited from the network effects of scale.

02:13:24Today, the beneficiaries of the network effects of scale are online companies primarily.

02:13:29So to put it another way, when Comcast gains a customer, it's not just Comcast.

02:13:33It's Google.

02:13:35It's Meta.

02:13:36It's Amazon.

02:13:37These are the companies that benefit even more from universal connectivity than individual

02:13:42network operators who do not have the same advantages of scale.

02:13:46How would you change that?

02:13:47Well, I think by contribution reform, we would say that the main beneficiaries of these network

02:13:52effects should be considered as contributors.

02:13:55Thank you.

02:13:56And lastly, more of a comment, because I think this question has been asked and answered,

02:14:01but in agricultural heavy states like Iowa, the advancement of precision agriculture is

02:14:07essential for our farmers to remain competitive and efficient.

02:14:10Widespread and ubiquitous either broadband or wireless coverage, and I have been in the

02:14:15combine with farmers who are using or use Starlink.

02:14:19I have visited with our manufacturers as well.

02:14:22It is really important for the adoption and implementation of precision agricultural technologies,

02:14:27which would meet some of those sustainability goals that you're trying to implement.

02:14:32And I would just encourage the FCC to expand and enhance wireless availability, as was

02:14:37mentioned earlier, to meet the growing demands, but also to ensure that the BEAD program is

02:14:41put in place and enacted and let the providers get to do the work that they do because they

02:14:46are extraordinarily frustrated in my state.

02:14:49And then a question for the record, Chairman Rosenworcel, answer question for the record.

02:14:55We just like to ask what the FCC's role is in spectrum studies that NTIA is leading.

02:15:00With that, I yield back.

02:15:01Thank you.

02:15:02The gentlelady yields back.

02:15:03The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Florida's Ninth District for five minutes

02:15:05for questions.

02:15:07Thank you, Chairman.

02:15:09We live in a time of incredible technological advances.

02:15:14Autonomous vehicles, artificial intelligence, e-commerce, telehealth, online education,

02:15:20all these things are going through our committee as we speak, and all require high-speed Internet.

02:15:26Connections that we need to make sure every American has to flourish.

02:15:31The $42 billion fund for high-speed Internet, as well as the $14.2 billion Affordable Connectivity

02:15:37Program, both are part of making this access available to everyone, especially in rural

02:15:46areas.

02:15:47I have both urban, suburban, and rural in our district.

02:15:49And the FCC, you all stand at the vanguard of this progress.

02:15:54The only complaints I hear back home from local folks is it's not happening fast enough,

02:15:59and that the Affordable Connectivity Program ran out.

02:16:03Commissioner Gomez, thank you so much for coming to the district, to the Orlando VA,

02:16:09and speaking with local veterans, including many disabled, wounded warriors.

02:16:16And as you mentioned, 80% of medical treatments our veterans are undertaking require broadband

02:16:24connection.

02:16:25And ACP has provided benefits to 79,000 households in my district, and has reduced costs by $37

02:16:33million.

02:16:34And so, can you expand on the importance you think the ACP program plays, especially in

02:16:39health care and for our veterans?

02:16:43Thank you, Congressman, for that question.

02:16:45And thank you again for the visit in Orlando at the Veterans Affairs Medical Center.

02:16:49It was really interesting, and I really appreciated hearing directly from beneficiaries of the

02:16:57Affordable Connectivity Program.

02:16:59As you mentioned, 80% of health care from that medical center requires a connection

02:17:07to broadband.

02:17:08And we heard from so many folks during that visit about the importance of connectivity

02:17:13and the ways that it actually saves costs for these very veterans, particularly veterans

02:17:20with disabilities.

02:17:21If they need to go to a hearing for their benefits, before they had broadband connectivity,

02:17:28they would have to get in a car or a van, drive for hours, get a hotel room for at least

02:17:34a couple of days in order just to be able to attend a hearing.

02:17:38Now they can do it online, and that saves them costs, it saves the government costs.

02:17:43So that is just one example of the things that we heard from when we were visiting with

02:17:48the VA Center.

02:17:50Thank you.

02:17:51Commissioner Stark, as you may know, I filed the Launch Communications Act again.

02:17:55It's passed the House again.

02:17:57We appreciate the Commission's important work on the issue of ensuring greater spectrum

02:18:04for launches.

02:18:06We had 73 last year.

02:18:09We'll have over 100 this year.

02:18:10And the weather doesn't always cooperate.

02:18:12So really important that we continue to streamline this process.

02:18:16Can you please discuss the need to expand the amount of spectrum that is available for

02:18:20commercial space launches and reentries, and the importance of streamlining the process

02:18:25for accessing spectrum for this use?

02:18:29Yes.

02:18:30Thank you for your longstanding work here.

02:18:32It has been extremely important.

02:18:35We are seeing more launches than ever.

02:18:38We need to keep pace with the technology, keep pace with innovation.

02:18:45And we've been able to, with the Space Bureau here, now be able to move quicker, be able

02:18:49to be more nimble.

02:18:50And it's been more important than ever, as we're getting more and more connectivity and

02:18:54more of what satellite is going to look like.

02:18:58Chair Wursel, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss, and welcome back to the committee.

02:19:03I'm excited about the competition we're seeing in the satellite market.

02:19:06We are launching so many of these Starlink satellites, and Kuiper Belt is about to come

02:19:12up as well, to expand both satellite, internet as well, and from low-Earth orbit.

02:19:18What can the Congress do to make sure that the United States continues to lead in building

02:19:22a competitive and dynamic space marketplace?

02:19:25Well, thank you.

02:19:26I know that Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaveral are in your backyard.

02:19:30And I had the privilege of going there last year and meeting with the Artemis II astronauts.

02:19:34And it really is an out-of-this-world experience, what's happening.

02:19:38We've had nationally more than 200 space launches in the last year.

02:19:41It's no longer occasional.

02:19:42We have built the biggest commercial space industry in the world.

02:19:46And to the extent that this is a budget hearing, let me be clear, we need more resources for

02:19:51our Space Bureau.

02:19:52You want us to process this faster and make sure we continue to lead the world?

02:19:57That's part of the ways to do it.

02:19:58I mean, we've got tens of thousands of satellite applications sitting before us right now.

02:20:05Everything we can do to get more engineers, economists, and policy experts to review that,

02:20:09be thoughtful about it, and engage with our global counterparts is valuable.

02:20:13And it's valuable for our geopolitical leadership.

02:20:15And I second that, Madam Chairwoman.

02:20:17I yield back.

02:20:18The gentleman's time has expired.

02:20:20And the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Idaho's 1st District for five minutes

02:20:25for questions.

02:20:26Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

02:20:27Mr. Carr, I paid particular attention to your comments just a few minutes ago regarding

02:20:33the importance and the beneficial aspects of speeding up the process of approval across

02:20:43federal lands with NEPA, National Historic Preservation Act.

02:20:48And I actually have legislation that would do that.

02:20:50And that's in the works.

02:20:51So hopefully that will make some headway with that.

02:20:55But in a previous conversation, you had talked about a federal lands desk, if I recall correctly,

02:21:05and the possibility of a conduit there that might speed things up.

02:21:10And so this was not part of my original line of questioning, but is there anything further?

02:21:16It's been a while since this conversation's taken place.

02:21:19Is there anything further developments on the federal lands desk?

02:21:23Or is this something that we need to take further steps for here?

02:21:26I think we need to continue to move forward.

02:21:28There's a lot of infrastructure ideas that we can do.

02:21:30For instance, we streamlined a lot of rules at the FCC that apply to small cells, which

02:21:34is one type of technology.

02:21:36We need to extend those to more technologies.

02:21:38And the federal lands desk, I think, would help as well, because Congress has taken a

02:21:42lot of stabs at streamlining the permitting process for federal lands.

02:21:45But a lot of these agencies, like Forest and otherwise, they have important day jobs as

02:21:49well, and they just don't get around to this quickly enough.

02:21:51So I think if we had a place at the FCC where folks could come and help dislodge some of

02:21:56those applications, I think it could be helpful.

02:21:58This is particularly pertinent to my state.

02:22:00We've got two-thirds of landmass approximately where that's an issue.

02:22:04I've also heard about backlogs as a concern, specifically within BLM Forest Service.

02:22:13Are you hearing anything like that that might be slowing down the process or the channels?

02:22:20We hear about this constantly.

02:22:21I've visited places all across the West where you'll go to a lay-down yard, an outdoor warehouse,

02:22:27and they'll have multiple antennas sitting there, many, many miles of conduits sitting

02:22:32there.

02:22:33So the hard part of getting all that equipment out there and purchasing it is done, not just

02:22:36sitting there waiting on approvals from the government to get out there and build it.

02:22:40And I think that's a real big problem.

02:22:42The further west you go, the higher percentage of federal lands.

02:22:45If you pick a spot to build and it just happens to be federal lands, it can take you two times

02:22:49longer than if that plot of land happened to be privately owned, and we've got to close

02:22:53that gap.

02:22:54Appreciate that.

02:22:55Chair Rosenworcel, did you want to make a comment on that?

02:22:56Yeah, I just want to acknowledge, this is a good point, across the country about one-third

02:23:00of our land is owned by federal authorities.

02:23:02It is the least built-out land when it comes to communications.

02:23:06And I believe it was in the Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act that Congress

02:23:09required the GSA to set up a uniform form for all of our federal agencies when a provider

02:23:15wants to approach them because they want some construction.

02:23:17I think that form is called Form 299.

02:23:20But the deadlines on that form are long.

02:23:24They can take 270 days to respond.

02:23:27Just to be clear, the FCC's deadlines for states and localities are 90 days and 150

02:23:33days.

02:23:34I think we should expect a faster response time from our federal authorities, and I'd

02:23:37encourage you to look into the status of Form 299.

02:23:40Appreciate that.

02:23:41Appreciate that very much.

02:23:42Thank you.

02:23:43I'd like to shift gears just a little bit.

02:23:44This has been touched on as well, but I hear feedback on it.

02:23:48I want to ask Commissioner Carr if he can expound on this a little bit.

02:23:52This is regarding the effect of the Title II proposal and the impacts on small and rural

02:23:57providers.

02:23:58We have a lot of those in my state, but I'm hearing the possibility of price controls.

02:24:05That's a concern in the industry.

02:24:09And the potential impact on these smaller and rural providers, I want to get your feedback

02:24:15on that.

02:24:16It's a real concern, and what should we be doing about this?

02:24:20Thanks.

02:24:21I think price controls as a policy matter is the absolute wrong direction because we

02:24:27need to be attracting billions of dollars across the country into these networks, and

02:24:30there's a risk out there.

02:24:32The FCC in its digital equity order opens the door to rate regulation at the federal

02:24:36level, even though it disavows it in the separate Title II decision, but you're seeing a number

02:24:40of states, New York being an example, that are trying to impose price controls on their

02:24:45own.

02:24:47Similarly, you see the Commerce Department, the Biden administration, pressuring states,

02:24:50Virginia is one example, Tennessee is another, to adopt price controls, even though the law

02:24:54that you passed here in Congress told Commerce Department no rate regulation.

02:24:59So there certainly is this latent and growing effort to impose it, and it's a policy and

02:25:04legal mistake as well.

02:25:06Thank you for that.

02:25:07Chair Rosenworcel, this has got to be really quick, and I can follow up with a written

02:25:11question as well, but can you speak very quickly to the possibility of improving the

02:25:17process of adding entities to the FCC's covered list?

02:25:23The authority was given by Congress to other agencies.

02:25:28I can follow up with you on that.

02:25:29I'd be happy to work with you.

02:25:30Thank you very much.

02:25:31Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

02:25:32I yield back.

02:25:33Thank you.

02:25:41Thank you so much, Chairman Latta, and thank you, Ranking Member Matsui, for convening

02:25:45today's hearing, and thank you to our commissioners for being here to testify about the FCC and

02:25:51the many important issues under its jurisdiction.

02:25:54And as many of you, I think probably everyone here has seen, Hurricane Beryl hit the Texas

02:25:59Gulf Coast yesterday with my hometown of Houston right in the path of the storm, and when this

02:26:08category one hurricane made landfall yesterday and made it right through Houston and our

02:26:12area.

02:26:13As of last night, there were 2.2 million people without power, including at my own home.

02:26:21And I know that our folks on the ground are working as hard and as quickly as possible

02:26:24to restore power and to restore communications, and I've spoken with a lot of our local communications

02:26:31providers who've established backup power sources to make sure that my constituents

02:26:36don't lose their ability to be in contact with emergency responders, with family, with

02:26:41friends, and to try to make sure that they can get through this storm during this emergency.

02:26:45So, Chairwoman Rosenwessel, I really want to thank you and thank all of your colleagues

02:26:51for the Mandatory Disaster Response Initiative, MDRI, and for those who don't know, these

02:26:56are new rules that took effect in May, just in May, that wireless providers take certain

02:27:02actions to improve and reduce the impact of wireless outages and support faster service

02:27:07restoration during emergencies like this one.

02:27:10It's been absolutely critical that people have been able to be in contact, and one of

02:27:15the actions, of course, is requiring backup power sources for cell sites and infrastructure,

02:27:19and that has proved to be very important, as I really haven't had trouble reaching people

02:27:23other than that they maybe can't keep their devices powered.

02:27:27So those are huge challenges, and I know that in response to Beryl, the FCC announced

02:27:32the activation of the Disaster Information Reporting System, and for the first time,

02:27:38this mandatory initiative.

02:27:39So, Chairwoman Rosenwessel, with the time that we have, can you just talk a little bit

02:27:43about why it was important for the FCC to move this from a voluntary program to a mandatory

02:27:49program, and maybe just explain a little bit about what that will mean for my constituents,

02:27:54what some of the actions are that are required, and how, in moments like this, where we are

02:27:57really in crisis, how your agency is working to help make sure that we have the resources

02:28:02and information that we need to stay in communication.

02:28:05Yeah, thank you.

02:28:06Everyone needs communication, and especially in crisis, and unfortunately, the Texas Gulf

02:28:10Coast has had more than its fair share of weather events, and as a result, we started

02:28:14the disaster system that takes in data about when services are down.

02:28:21We also sent individuals down to the Houston area to work with FEMA on this.

02:28:27We have a lot of people who do that work.

02:28:28They do it quietly.

02:28:29They're real heroes.

02:28:30They go and get some ground truth about the state of communications and help with restoration,

02:28:35and we also have a first test case of our mandatory disaster response initiative, which

02:28:40requires carriers to work with one another and let their customers roam on each other's

02:28:45networks.

02:28:46This was previously a volunteer initiative, but I went with Commissioner Carr after Hurricane

02:28:49Ida to Louisiana.

02:28:50We spoke with a lot of public safety officials, and they convinced us both that this should

02:28:55be required.

02:28:57So after Hurricane Beryl leaves the Houston area, one thing we're going to do is find

02:29:00out how it worked, because we want to make sure it works for everyone going forward.

02:29:05This is both a tragedy, but I think it's also an opportunity.

02:29:08I think you're going to be able to demonstrate to us how our carriers worked with one another

02:29:12and kept people connected.

02:29:13Well, thank you so much for that, and I have a little bit more time, so I also want to

02:29:17One of the challenges we're seeing is, of course, keeping track of outages of all kinds,

02:29:21including the power outages, but also I know that the agency recently issued an order classifying

02:29:29broadband as Title II service that will give the FCC insight into network outages, and

02:29:34that will ultimately, I think, benefit people in my district and across the country.

02:29:38Can you just talk a little bit more about what that will mean?

02:29:41Yeah, when broadband goes out, a community goes down.

02:29:44When it goes out in my house, you know, my children are ready for revolution.

02:29:48It is one of those circumstances that affects everything in modern life.

02:29:53It's why the Federal Communications Commission needs the authority to collect data about

02:29:57outages, not just in the aftermath of weather disasters, but also outages that occur when

02:30:02we least expect them.

02:30:04There was a community in Michigan that lost service during the pandemic for 45 days, but

02:30:09the FCC had no data or information about it.

02:30:13Now that we have Title II authority back, we'll be able to collect information about

02:30:16outages, understand why they occur, and then take action to prevent them from occurring

02:30:20again, which is really, really important for all of us who count on the internet in our

02:30:24day-to-day life.

02:30:25Well, thank you so much for that, and I'm glad to hear about how the commissioners are

02:30:30working together in this instance.

02:30:32I don't have time for another question, but with the 10 seconds I have left, I don't think

02:30:37I can close without mentioning my surprise that FCC officials that are nominated by the

02:30:42President and confirmed by the Senate are listed as contributors to the Project 2025

02:30:46plan, which is really a blueprint for dismantling our government and eviscerating agencies like

02:30:51this one and others, and fundamentally changing our country.

02:30:54So I'm surprised and very disappointed to see that, and with that, I yield back.

02:30:59The gentlelady's time has expired.

02:31:01The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Florida's 3rd District for five minutes for

02:31:05questions.

02:31:06Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

02:31:08Thank you to our commissioners for appearing before us here today.

02:31:11I'll start with you, Chairwoman.

02:31:15In June, the Chairman of the Federal Elections Commission sent you a letter regarding the

02:31:19FCC proposed regulations on AI in political advertisements.

02:31:23Now, in the letter, Chairman Cooksey stated that the FCC lacks the legal authority to

02:31:29promulgate conflicting disclaimers requirements only for political communications.

02:31:33He also stated that it would create confusion and disarray among political campaigns.

02:31:38Now, have you spoken to Chair Cooksey about this proposal, and do you plan to move forward

02:31:43following the FCC's concerns about the authority in political speech?

02:31:48And I apologize, I'm in three conflicting hearings today, so if this has been asked,

02:31:53I appreciate you answering it again.

02:31:55First of all, I believe in transparency.

02:31:57I believe every single consumer should know if AI is being used.

02:32:00I think it is good for truth, honesty, and safety that every single one of us knows if

02:32:06AI is being used.

02:32:07I spoke to the vice chair of the FEC, who thinks that we have complementary authority

02:32:12here because since 1930, the FCC has been requiring campaigns, when they advertise on

02:32:18television and radio, to file with us what ad they put up, when it were in, and how much

02:32:24they paid for it.

02:32:25In 1974, Congress asked cable authorities to do that.

02:32:29I asked if you spoke with the chair, not the vice chair.

02:32:33I have only spoken to the vice chair, but the truth is we have a long history.

02:32:36So the chair and the vice chair have differing opinions on this.

02:32:38Since 1930, we've been collecting this data in our files.

02:32:42No, I'm not trying to be adversarial, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this.

02:32:46So there's a disconnect between the chair and the vice chair over at the FEC.

02:32:51Yeah, they have a difference of opinion.

02:32:52The vice chair says that clearly we have complementary authority in this area.

02:32:56I agree with that.

02:32:57So what is the plan?

02:32:59Because we are less than five months out from a significant election.

02:33:04I agree with you.

02:33:05All of us being candidates.

02:33:07Let's talk about what I've proposed, because I feel like this conversation isn't about

02:33:11that.

02:33:12What I've proposed is a rulemaking, a proposal that we collect public comment on whether

02:33:18or not advertisements that are run on our televisions and radios should just disclose

02:33:25if they use AI.

02:33:26I think disclosure, I think by and large, I don't think that that requires a whole comment

02:33:36period because by and large, everyone wants transparency, right?

02:33:40It's a matter of does the FCC have authority to do so?

02:33:43So we have, wait a second, can you weigh in on this, please?

02:33:47Hold on, I've got to run out of my time.

02:33:50The proposal that would have the FCC mark a monumental sea change in their

02:33:56regulation of political speech on the eve of a national election is as unlawful as it

02:34:02is misguided.

02:34:04As the chairman of the FEC has made clear, Congress has given them exclusive authority

02:34:08with respect to disclosures involving political ads.

02:34:12Moreover, the FCC can only muddy the waters here.

02:34:15It would have put in place a proposal that applies only to an ad on broadcast TV, but

02:34:19you could see the same ad online or on cable and it wouldn't have the disclosure.

02:34:23That's going to leave consumers less informed, perhaps more confused than they are today.

02:34:29So I think the FCC should abandon this proposal because it could only move forward right on

02:34:33the eve of an election.

02:34:34This is an important debate, the use of AI, no doubt, but that debate should be happening

02:34:38here in Congress and it is happening at the FEC as well.

02:34:42It's just not a job for the FCC right now.

02:34:43I don't know why we're so scared.

02:34:44I'm sorry.

02:34:45I have to, I have to leave my time here.

02:34:46The gentlelady from Florida is asking the questions and has the floor.

02:34:49Chairwoman, I've got to jump to another issue.

02:34:52Thank you, Commissioner Carr, for that, that, that feedback.

02:34:56The 4.9 gigahertz band, as we know, very, very important.

02:35:01First responders, public safety, want to get to a timeline for making a decision on whether

02:35:06this band will be reallocated to FirstNet or it will be auctioned.

02:35:10Do we have that?

02:35:12We have an open docket on that.

02:35:13We're taking in comment from all kinds of public safety authorities right now.

02:35:16To be clear, it is not a question of whether it will go to FirstNet or be auctioned.

02:35:21It's a question of what public safety authorities might be managing this, these airwaves going

02:35:27forward.

02:35:28Timeline?

02:35:29Um, my hope is that we can do this within the next several months, but boy, lots of

02:35:32people are filing a lot of stuff before us, and when it comes at us fast and furious,

02:35:36we have to spend some time looking at it and reading it carefully.

02:35:40There's a lot more that I wish I could get to.

02:35:41I wish you guys could see my notes here, or maybe not.

02:35:44I'm not sure, but I want to leave us in the last 22 seconds with this.

02:35:49I agree with you, Commissioner Carr, that this could severely muddy the waters when

02:35:54we're talking about AI.

02:35:56While I agree wholeheartedly that we need transparency and clarity about the use of

02:36:00AI in political advertisements, the FEC has jurisdiction over this issue, and the fact

02:36:05that there are divided opinions, conflicting opinions within the FCC that you have not

02:36:11spoken to the chair of the FEC is concerning.

02:36:15So with that, my time has expired, and Mr. Chairman, I yield.

02:36:19Thank you.

02:36:20The gentlelady's time has expired, and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from New

02:36:23York who is waving on to the subcommittee who is a member of the full committee.

02:36:28Thank you.

02:36:29Thank you, Chair Lata and Ranking Member Matsui for holding this hearing, and the chair and

02:36:34commissioners for your service in being here today.

02:36:38Before I go on with my questioning, Chair Rosenworcel, I think you wanted to make a

02:36:42statement in response to the AI issue yet.

02:36:46I just think transparency is a good thing, disclosing when AI use is a good thing, and

02:36:50the FCC has authority in this area and has had authority since the 1930s.

02:36:55Thank you.

02:36:56Throughout my tenure in Congress, I have championed efforts to extend broadband access to unserved

02:37:02and underserved areas.

02:37:03Last Congress, I was proud to support the bipartisan infrastructure law, which allocated

02:37:07over $42 billion for high-speed broadband deployment nationwide.

02:37:12With these historic investments, accurate broadband maps are essential for the equitable

02:37:17and effective allocation of federal funds.

02:37:20Chairman Worsel, I appreciated your work on behalf of my district, visiting the district

02:37:25and listening carefully to what my constituents had to say about this issue, and I appreciate

02:37:30your written testimony on the national broadband map and commend the FCC for the substantial

02:37:35progress made in updating these maps over the past few years.

02:37:39However, in the capital region of New York, we are still seeing the effects of unreliable

02:37:43data.

02:37:44Communities often struggle with slow speeds, unreliable connections, or no service, despite

02:37:50being designated as having access.

02:37:52This disparity can hamper economic development and perpetuate systemic inequalities, widening

02:37:58the digital divide.

02:38:00So can you speak, please, Commissioner, Chair, can you speak to how the FCC is incorporating

02:38:06consumer-reported data on broadband availability and quality into its mapping efforts and the

02:38:12role public feedback plays in efforts to refine our broadband maps?

02:38:16Yeah, public feedback is so important.

02:38:20We built maps based on the Broadband Data Act, which was bipartisan work of this committee.

02:38:25Those maps are light years ahead of anything we've ever had before, and they're iterative,

02:38:29they're improving all the time.

02:38:31The primary way that they improve is when consumers and state and local officials go

02:38:35onto that website and register a complaint or a criticism that says, you say there's

02:38:41service here, I'm standing right in that location, and no, there's not.

02:38:45And so I would encourage you to encourage your constituents to work with that map, and

02:38:49I'd be happy to set up times for them to discuss it with our broadband mapping team, because

02:38:53I know feedback from local individuals is the way we get this data right.

02:38:57Thank you so much.

02:38:58And can you discuss how the FCC collaborates with other federal agencies, state governments,

02:39:03and industry stakeholders to streamline broadband mapping efforts and ensure a cohesive approach

02:39:09to improving nationwide broadband access?

02:39:11Yeah, it's a really, really big task, to be candid with you.

02:39:15When I got to the agency and I took over, one of the first things I did was said, okay,

02:39:19we're going to do better maps, and then I studied it, and I instantly understood why

02:39:23nobody had done it before.

02:39:25We had to build a data set of tax records, property records, satellite images that indicated

02:39:30where every single household is in the United States, and then we had to build a system

02:39:34that was capable of taking in data from all of our carriers, and then feedback and crowdsourced

02:39:38information from local, state, tribal, and consumers, all telling us what's going on.

02:39:45The system right now is terrific.

02:39:48We've got 115 million households that we indicate where broadband is.

02:39:52We know that in 6 million of them, it is not present, but it can always be improved.

02:39:57That's why we update it every six months, and coming out this week, in fact, is another

02:40:01rulemaking from the FCC that all my colleagues supported, which asked questions about how

02:40:06we improve this process further to make sure we take into account smarter approaches to

02:40:11things like fixed wireless and technologies that may not have been at the forefront when

02:40:15the Broadband Data Act was passed by this committee.

02:40:18Thank you.

02:40:19Additionally, earlier this year, I was pleased to see your proposal to improve routing for

02:40:23the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.

02:40:25As a co-lead of the bipartisan 988 Lifeline Improvement Act, I am committed to ensuring

02:40:31that callers in crisis receive access to locally relevant mental health resources.

02:40:37In May, the KFF released an analysis of the utilization of 988's Suicide and Crisis Lifeline's

02:40:44LGBTQ service, showing that 10% of all 988 outreach was made via the LGBTQ service, but

02:40:51only 20% of LGBTQ adults were even aware of the 988 service.

02:40:57So, could you discuss any initiatives the FCC is undertaking to raise public awareness

02:41:01about the availability and purpose of 988, especially among vulnerable populations that

02:41:07may benefit most from the service?

02:41:10Yeah, well, first things first, we are seeing substantial increases in the use of 988, this

02:41:15simple three-digit number.

02:41:16More people understand it, more people know about it.

02:41:18We're getting many more calls than we previously did under the 10-digit number that was hard

02:41:23for folks to remember.

02:41:26We're going to have to work on publicizing it with mental health authorities.

02:41:30My colleagues and I have a lot of skills, but we are not mental health experts.

02:41:34So we've been coordinating with the Health and Human Services Department and the Substance

02:41:37Abuse and Mental Health Services Agency there.

02:41:40And going forward, we're going to work with them to make sure that calls are geo-routed.

02:41:44In other words, we get information off the cell tower so that when we send that 988 caller

02:41:50to a help center, they'll be sent to assistance that's nearby.

02:41:54Thank you so much.

02:41:55And Mr. Chair, I yield back.

02:41:57The gentleman yields back.

02:42:00I will recognize myself for five minutes for questions.

02:42:03Chair Rosenworcel, it's very nice to see you again.

02:42:05I'd like to continue a line of questioning that was started by my colleague from Florida,

02:42:09Ms. Kamek, about the FCC's recent actions to put restrictions on the use of AI in political

02:42:16advertising.

02:42:17And to be clear, I don't think anyone disagrees with the importance of putting some guidelines

02:42:24in place.

02:42:25I think everyone is disturbed by the thought that a campaign could run an ad with their

02:42:31opponent saying or doing something that they didn't actually do in the use of AI to make

02:42:35that happen.

02:42:37We want to make sure that we get this done in the appropriate way.

02:42:40And Ms. Kamek highlighted the fact that the chair of the FEC has objected to the FCC's

02:42:50use of your regulatory authority to do this.

02:42:52And so I just wanted to ask a couple questions about that.

02:42:55If the FCC has authority over broadcast television, so ostensibly if you implemented this rule,

02:43:03you could require a disclaimer on ads on broadcast.

02:43:07But could you require that same disclaimer on other channels such as streaming services

02:43:13or social media?

02:43:15To be clear, Congress has given us this authority for broadcast, radio, satellite, and cable.

02:43:21That's a substantial portion of campaign ads.

02:43:24And we've exercised this authority as far back as 1938.

02:43:28So this is a system everyone has used for decades.

02:43:32Every single campaign reports when an ad was run, who paid for it.

02:43:38And on air, they say who's responsible for it.

02:43:40So we're just behind this principle of transparency, which is you should simply say if AI was used.

02:43:47It's nothing more complicated than that.

02:43:48We are proposing transparency.

02:43:51It's very simple.

02:43:52Was AI used?

02:43:53Yes or no?

02:43:54Sure.

02:43:55And I understand that.

02:43:56And separately, though, I want to just make one more point.

02:43:58We have these files for federal, state, local, and issues.

02:44:03In other words, it's a far greater community than what the Federal Election Commission

02:44:07oversees.

02:44:08That's why the vice chair said we have complementary authorities in this area.

02:44:11And I agree.

02:44:12So here's a concern that I have, which is that if the FCC imposes this requirement,

02:44:20but that requirement is not mirrored by requirements on other channels such as social media and

02:44:25streaming services, then the public could become desensitized when they see an ad on

02:44:30one of those other channels that lacks that disclosure, because they assume, they make

02:44:35the assumption that the disclosure applies to all the channels equally.

02:44:39And that's why we want to make sure that we get this right.

02:44:42This is actually an issue that the Artificial Intelligence Task Force here in the House

02:44:46has discussed.

02:44:47And I can tell you that the implementation of it is more complicated than merely requiring

02:44:52a disclosure.

02:44:54You have to talk about what AI is and what it isn't, what it's been used for and what

02:44:59it hasn't.

02:45:00And the example you and I were talking about, absolutely 100% is something that not only

02:45:04should require disclosure, should not be allowed, in my opinion.

02:45:07But the use of AI, I mean, to choose the opposite end of the extreme, to clean up the audio

02:45:12of a candidate in a speech, which also occurs, is something that is completely benign and

02:45:17might not even require disclosure.

02:45:18So the devil's in the details.

02:45:20I completely agree with you.

02:45:21This is complicated.

02:45:23I would be very happy to have a conversation about that.

02:45:25But it is very clear that transparency is a good thing.

02:45:28We have authority here.

02:45:30And also that you've got to start somewhere.

02:45:32Our proposal is just a request for public comment.

02:45:35And when you think about AI and the confusion involved and the complexities of these issues,

02:45:40asking for public comment about an issue of transparency is a good thing.

02:45:43Right.

02:45:44I would agree.

02:45:45And let's work together to make sure that this happens.

02:45:48We want to make sure it happens in a way that solves the problem completely.

02:45:53So it applies to all the channels of communication and solves the problem comprehensively in

02:45:57a way that doesn't devolve into different agencies arguing over, does the FCC have the

02:46:02authority?

02:46:03Is the FEC?

02:46:04Has Congress delegated this authority?

02:46:06Let's get the problem solved by working together.

02:46:08And listen, I think our notice of proposed rulemaking that I propose can open up a dialogue

02:46:13for just that.

02:46:15We can, in public, discuss these issues, try to refine the kind of definitions that you

02:46:18just described, understand what applies to federal elections, state elections, local

02:46:23elections, issue campaigns, and make sure that we come up with something that is simple

02:46:27and that people can trust and just puts transparency front and center for the American public.

02:46:32I think we are all capable of doing that, and I think that's what our proposal is designed

02:46:36to do.

02:46:37Well, let's work together on that.

02:46:38Yeah, this is not something that we should be rushing through on the eve of an election.

02:46:41As you noted, it's complex.

02:46:42You've got deceptive defects on the one hand, you've got the use of chat GPT to run scripts

02:46:48for ads on the other end.

02:46:49This is something that Congress is taking a serious look at.

02:46:52It's complicated.

02:46:53We shouldn't be rushing this through before an election.

02:46:55Commissioner Carr, I appreciate your engagement on that.

02:46:58My point about the different channels I stole from your testimony, so thank you very much

02:47:04for being engaged on that.

02:47:05My time has expired.

02:47:07Seeing no further members waiting to be recognized, I'd like to thank our witnesses for being

02:47:11here today.

02:47:12I think this has been a very useful exercise in not only the separation of powers, but

02:47:17our ability to work together, and it means a lot to me that you're willing to come here

02:47:21and testify.

02:47:22I'd ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the documents included in the staff

02:47:26hearing documents list.

02:47:27Without objection, that will be the order.

02:47:30I remind members that they have 10 business days to submit questions for the record, and

02:47:34I ask the witnesses to respond to the questions promptly, and I know you will.

02:47:37Members should submit their questions by the close of business on Tuesday, July the 23rd.

02:47:42Without objection, the subcommittee is now adjourned.

02:50:18Here we go.

02:50:19Thank you, Chairman Guthrie.

02:50:20Good morning, everyone.

02:50:21Thank you to Dr. Fowler for being here today.

02:50:24The Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation was created to help improve how Medicare and

02:50:29Medicaid pay for healthcare, and to be an engine in our drive towards value-based care.

02:50:36CMMI was given a 10-year, $10 billion budget, and an extremely wide-ranging authorities

02:50:44with limited built-in congressional oversight.

02:50:47The only directives Congress gave CMMI were to achieve two goals, lowering the cost of

02:50:54delivering care and improved patient outcomes.

02:50:58Over the last decade and a half, CMMI has tested over 50 models.

02:51:02Only two accomplished both those goals.

02:51:06When CMMI was created, the savings it was projected to generate were used, were to be

02:51:12used to offset spending by the Affordable Care Act.

02:51:15Originally, CBO estimated that CMMI would save $1.3 billion over its first decade of

02:51:21operation.

02:51:22That same model also projected CMMI would save as much as $77.5 billion in its second

02:51:29decade, from 2020 to 2023.

02:51:32However, when CBO looked at the actual results in a September 2023 report, the disparity

02:51:40between those expectations and the reality proved to be staggering.

02:51:45Instead of reducing spending by $1.3 billion in the first decade, CMMI increased spending

02:51:52by $5.4 billion.

02:51:54For the second decade, instead of saving $77.5 billion, CBO is now projecting CMMI to increase

02:52:04spending by $1.3 billion.

02:52:07I have a hard time believing any objective observer could look at the results thus far

02:52:12and describe CMMI as a success.

02:52:16So how do we move forward?

02:52:17Today, we're joined by Dr. Elizabeth Fowler, the current director of CMMI, to discuss the

02:52:23center's work and understand why it has failed to live up to the intended purpose thus far.

02:52:29I will note, Dr. Fowler has not been with CMMI throughout its entire existence.

02:52:33In fact, CMMI has had multiple directors across multiple administrations, but you are at the

02:52:40helm now and responsible for correcting this program's trajectory.

02:52:45And while there are still some reasons for optimism, a lot of what I've seen is concerning.

02:52:51I've been disappointed to see CMMI devalue drugs approved through the FDA's accelerated

02:52:57approval pathway, which FDA leadership confirmed meet the agency's gold standard just a few

02:53:04weeks ago in front of this committee.

02:53:07This pathway was designed to build on precision medicine, encourage innovation, and allow

02:53:11patients to access needed cures sooner.

02:53:15But CMMI's decision to cut reimbursements unilaterally for drugs approved via accelerated

02:53:21approval undercuts this mission.

02:53:24In addition, when Congress passed MACRA, thanks in large part to the work of this committee,

02:53:31CMMI was given a central role in driving Medicare's transition to value-based care.

02:53:37While CMMI has developed and tested some new models, largely for primary care physicians,

02:53:43too many clinicians have been left without a pathway to participate in APMs.

02:53:49I'm concerned that instead of focusing on fulfilling the role Congress gave CMMI in

02:53:54MACRA and working on developing new APMs, CMMI's focus has shifted to collecting information

02:54:00on patients' food insecurity and housing needs and requiring providers to waste time writing

02:54:08ridiculous health equity plans.

02:54:11While I have concerns on the overall direction and lack of results with CMMI, there have

02:54:16been a few positive outcomes that deserve to be recognized.

02:54:20Looking at CMMI's most recent work, I'm glad that you're continuing to build an accountable

02:54:25care organization model.

02:54:27While joining an ACO should not be the only pathway for providers to be able to participate

02:54:32in value-based care, these models are among the few that have actually managed to reduce

02:54:37overall spending and should not be abandoned.

02:54:39I was also encouraged to see CMMI work on trying to improve the care for Alzheimer's

02:54:44and dementia patients.

02:54:47Sadly, most people know someone who has suffered from this terrible disease.

02:54:51And I hope that this model is successful in improving community-based care for those patients.

02:54:56Lowering the cost of healthcare in this country has been the primary mission of this committee,

02:55:00this Congress.

02:55:01And we're on an unsustainable path and must continue to find ways to reverse the current

02:55:05trend.

02:55:06It makes it all the more important that CMMI carries out its intended mission and advocates

02:55:12pursuing an alternative agenda and avoids, I'm sorry, and avoids pursuing an alternative

02:55:20agenda.

02:55:22I'm grateful you're here today, Dr. Fowler, to share your expertise and eager to learn

02:55:26what lessons CMMI has learned and how we can get back on track with the mission and the

02:55:32directive that has come from Congress to CMMI.

02:55:36Thank you and I yield back.

02:55:38Thank you.

02:55:39The chair yields back.

Bob Latta Chairs House Energy And Commerce Committee Hearing On FCC FY2025 Budget

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