Chris Smith Leads House Foreign Affairs Cmte Hearing On 2024 Annual Trafficking In Persons Report

3 months ago

Rep. Chris Smith (R-NJ) leads a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing to examine the 2024 Annual Trafficking in Persons Report.

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Transcript

00:00:00and international organizations will come to order.

00:00:03Today, we will turn our attention again

00:00:05to the evil of human trafficking

00:00:07and discuss ways the United States government,

00:00:09both Congress and the administration,

00:00:11can combat this abhorrent crime more effectively.

00:00:15This is the 43rd congressional hearing

00:00:17that I've chaired on human trafficking.

00:00:19Unfortunately, there is much more to be done.

00:00:22Around the globe, an estimated 28 million people

00:00:24are enslaved in labor or sex trafficking,

00:00:27with traffickers profiting about $236 billion annually.

00:00:32Today, we will specifically examine

00:00:35the 2024 Annual Trafficking in Persons Report,

00:00:38or TIP Report, which the Department of State

00:00:40released just two weeks ago on June 24th.

00:00:43And I would just note, parenthetically,

00:00:45getting the TIP Report established,

00:00:47because I wrote the original law,

00:00:49was so hard that there were people in the administration

00:00:52who said, just put it into the country reports

00:00:53on human rights practices,

00:00:55make it a Part D or C or a subheading somewhere,

00:00:59and not its own report.

00:01:00And we fought very hard in a bipartisan way

00:01:03to get that enacted, but it was very vigorously opposed,

00:01:06and then finally, thankfully, accepted.

00:01:10As I was indicating, almost 25 years ago,

00:01:12I authored the historic

00:01:15Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000.

00:01:18Once again, the TVBA is up for reauthorization.

00:01:21My good friend and colleague, Ranking Member Wilde and I,

00:01:24have a House-passed bill, H.R. 5856,

00:01:27the Frederick Douglass Trafficking Victims Prevention

00:01:29and Protection Reauthorization Act of 2023.

00:01:32We'll have to change that to 2024,

00:01:35when the Senate, God willing, passes it.

00:01:37It did pass the House this past February

00:01:39by an overwhelming margin of 414 to 11.

00:01:44I do call on my friends and colleagues

00:01:46in the United States Senate to take it up.

00:01:48I have reached out to them continually,

00:01:50respectfully, but continually and urgently.

00:01:53This vital legislation should be enacted without haste

00:01:57to let governments, civil society,

00:02:00the bad guys, the purveyors of this heinous practice,

00:02:04and especially the victims and survivors know

00:02:07that we have not stopped fighting or caring

00:02:09about this vital human rights issue.

00:02:12The reauthorization of key domestic

00:02:13and international programs and funding,

00:02:16including the State Department's Office

00:02:17to Monitor and Combat Trafficking Persons,

00:02:19the role of the Ambassador-at-Large,

00:02:21and the continuation of the Annual TIP Report

00:02:24are all contained in the bill.

00:02:26It is time to get this bill to the President's desk.

00:02:28It should have been there a long time ago,

00:02:30but let's do it now before this session ends

00:02:33and we start all over again in the next session.

00:02:36The DVPA is a whole of government approaches,

00:02:38I think many of you know,

00:02:40to combat sex and labor trafficking

00:02:42in the United States and around the world.

00:02:45It puts forward a comprehensive

00:02:46counter-trafficking in persons strategy

00:02:49that integrated the three Ps,

00:02:50protection for victims of trafficking,

00:02:53prosecution of the traffickers,

00:02:55and prevention of human trafficking in the first place,

00:02:58and sometimes we add a fourth for the partnership

00:03:00since none of us can do it alone.

00:03:02If we want to be successful,

00:03:03we need those friends and allies across civil society

00:03:07and, of course, in other governments.

00:03:09Among the law's many provisions

00:03:11was the creation of an Annual TIP Report.

00:03:13It was written by the Office to Monitor and Combat

00:03:17Trafficking Persons at the State Department

00:03:19and analyzes countries' efforts

00:03:21to meet certain minimum standards

00:03:23for elimination of human trafficking.

00:03:25The tier rankings in the TIP Report

00:03:28is a vital tool for the United States government

00:03:30to fight human trafficking.

00:03:31It's also a great mirror for those,

00:03:33and believe me, I meet with delegations all the time

00:03:36who object to parts of it,

00:03:38and when you really get down to it,

00:03:39they agree that what we're saying often is right,

00:03:43but they don't like to be called out,

00:03:44and it's very important that we be willing

00:03:46to speak truth to power in that way.

00:03:50It is the gold standard for pushing governments

00:03:51to reform their own laws, prosecute criminals,

00:03:55and take strong measures to end trafficking

00:03:57in their countries.

00:03:58TIP Report only works when it judges government

00:04:01strictly based on the minimum standards

00:04:03for fighting human trafficking

00:04:05as laid out in the TVPA as amended.

00:04:08Political considerations cannot seep into the report,

00:04:12and I would note parathetically there,

00:04:13in the past we have had that happen,

00:04:16where there were ambassadors and there were others

00:04:19assistant secretaries and regional

00:04:21who fought hard to keep their country or countries

00:04:25off the tier three rating.

00:04:28That's totally unacceptable.

00:04:29That sells out the victims, as we all know,

00:04:32and I know that the honorable Cindy Dyer

00:04:34knows that so well, and very often there is a fight.

00:04:37Now, differences of opinion are inevitable,

00:04:40but when it's being done for other purposes

00:04:42and other parts of the agenda, absolutely unacceptable.

00:04:45Call it the way it is, and then decide

00:04:47what is the best application of the prescribed sanctions

00:04:51and the like in the bill.

00:04:53I was glad to see this year that the TIP Report,

00:04:57the world's top violators of human rights,

00:04:59countries such as China, Cuba, North Korea,

00:05:01Iran, Belarus, Russia, and Nicaragua,

00:05:04rightfully remain ranked in tier three.

00:05:08I was also glad to see that the TIP Report

00:05:10highlighted Cuba's and China's role

00:05:13in state-sponsored forced labor,

00:05:15but we can still take this a step further

00:05:19by having the tier ratings take into consideration

00:05:23the countries who participate and purchase that forced labor,

00:05:27including from Cuba's foreign medical missions.

00:05:30Likewise, Laos was rightfully downgraded

00:05:33to the tier two watch list,

00:05:34in part due to a human trafficking threat

00:05:37rapidly emerging out of Southeast Asia,

00:05:39where Chinese transnational organized crime syndicates

00:05:43operate scam centers with impunity.

00:05:46Bordering Laos and both Burma and Cambodia

00:05:48remain in the tier three designation.

00:05:52These criminals traffic innocent people

00:05:56from all over the world, luring them to prison compounds

00:05:59with fake job advertisements and offers.

00:06:02Only once these victims arrive at apartment blocks

00:06:06surrounded by armed guards and barbed wire

00:06:08do they realize they're hooked, they can't escape.

00:06:12Victims are forced to work in these compounds,

00:06:14conducting elaborate online cyber currency scams

00:06:18known as pig butchering.

00:06:20Forced by their traffickers to communicate digitally

00:06:22with unsuspecting scam victims,

00:06:24including in the United States,

00:06:26scam center workers attempt to strike up a text

00:06:29through WhatsApp or even through phone conversations

00:06:33to gain trust and build relationships.

00:06:36Victims are then tricked into depositing money

00:06:38into fraudulent so-called crypto investment platforms,

00:06:42controlled by the scam center.

00:06:44Once enough money is deposited, the scammer withdraws

00:06:47the money, deletes the fake account, and disappears.

00:06:50Through the dystopian fraud, innocent Americans

00:06:54are being robbed of their life savings.

00:06:56Estimates of money stolen from Americans

00:06:58through pig butchering scams are now over 3.5 billion.

00:07:03Without a whole of government effort,

00:07:04the problem will likely only get worse.

00:07:08Yet pig butchering is a double crime.

00:07:10It destroys the lives in the U.S.

00:07:12by robbing unsuspecting victims of their life savings,

00:07:16while it also is destroying the lives

00:07:17of the trafficking victims in Southeast Asia

00:07:20through forced labor.

00:07:21Most of these scam centers are in Burma,

00:07:23Laos, and Cambodia.

00:07:25These countries' governments need to act

00:07:27to shut down these vile operations

00:07:31to help free the forced labor victims,

00:07:33over 300,000 of them by 2023,

00:07:36and bring the perpetrators to justice.

00:07:39Neighboring countries such as Thailand,

00:07:41Singapore, and Vietnam also do little

00:07:44to combat the rampant human trafficking

00:07:46occurring on and through their borders,

00:07:49as well as the money laundering occurring

00:07:51through their financial institutions.

00:07:53Unlike the appropriate tier rankings

00:07:55for Laos, Cambodia, and Burma,

00:07:56I would argue that Vietnam,

00:07:58and I've been pushing this for years,

00:08:00I've traveled there, I've met with human rights activists

00:08:03in Vietnam and victims, Vietnam does not warrant

00:08:08an upgrade from tier two watch list to tier two.

00:08:12We cannot reward the Communist Party of Vietnam

00:08:14for repeatedly misleading the U.S.

00:08:17on its weak efforts to combat human trafficking.

00:08:21Civil society organizations have reached out,

00:08:23concerned about Vietnam's sham upgrade to tier two status,

00:08:27due to their lack of transparency and accountability

00:08:30for government officials.

00:08:32That said, I was pleased to see

00:08:35that under the topics of special interest,

00:08:38the mention of trafficking for the purchase

00:08:40of organ removal and forced organ harvesting.

00:08:43I have a bill, H.R. 1154,

00:08:45the Forced Organ Harvesting Act of 2023.

00:08:47It passed the House 413-2 in March,

00:08:51not of this year, of last year.

00:08:53Can't get that out of the Senate either.

00:08:55This bill imposes property, passport,

00:08:57and visa blocking sanctions on persons,

00:08:59individuals, and entities involved

00:09:02in forced organ harvesting,

00:09:03or trafficking in persons for the purpose

00:09:05of organ removal.

00:09:07The Frederick Douglass Bill also contains a provision

00:09:09to permanently include in the TIP Report,

00:09:12information about the trafficking in persons

00:09:14for the purpose of organ removal,

00:09:16including cases and steps governments are undertaking

00:09:20to prevent, identify, and eliminate such trafficking.

00:09:24Before closing, I'd like to mention

00:09:25one more troubling development.

00:09:28Recent years have seen the rise of a disturbing

00:09:30new normalization of so-called sex work,

00:09:34intergenerational sexual partnerships,

00:09:35or transnational, transactional, I should say, sex.

00:09:39These terms are pushed by certain NGOs,

00:09:41international organizations, and government organizations

00:09:43alike, and they advocate for legalized prostitution.

00:09:47Not only do these terms subtly undermine U.S. law

00:09:51in the TVPA, which defines sex trafficking

00:09:54in personal sex acts, they also attempt

00:09:57to normalize sex trafficking and the sexual abuse

00:10:00and exploitation of children.

00:10:03Let's be clear, the TVPA defines the term

00:10:07Commercial Sex Act as any sex act on account

00:10:10of which anything of value, anything,

00:10:12is given to or received by any person.

00:10:15And any commercial sex act in which the person

00:10:18is induced to perform such acts

00:10:21and has not attained the age of 18,

00:10:23it is called sex trafficking under the TVPA.

00:10:26And that was a landmark change we got

00:10:28in the year 2000 when it was signed into law.

00:10:30I was shocked and disturbed to see

00:10:33that Belgium was upgraded to Tier 1

00:10:35after passing a new law in May of 2024

00:10:39on legalizing the role of third parties,

00:10:41including pimps and madams, and treating

00:10:43exploited women as employees and holding them

00:10:46to account for refusing sex acts.

00:10:49Congress must stand with the disturbing,

00:10:52disturbing ideological trend.

00:10:55I agree fully with UN Special Rapporteur

00:10:57on Violence Against Women and Girls,

00:10:58Reem Aslayem, who wrote in June of 2024

00:11:02in her report to the UN Human Rights Council.

00:11:05She said, and I quote, prostitution reduces

00:11:08women and girls to mere commodities

00:11:10and perpetuates the system of discrimination

00:11:14and violence that hinders their ability

00:11:16to achieve true equality.

00:11:18Given the immense harm experienced

00:11:19by women and girls in prostitution,

00:11:21it is important to use terminology

00:11:23that aligns with international human rights law

00:11:25and standards, terms like sex works,

00:11:28sanitize the harmful reality of prostitution.

00:11:31Prostitution is not a liberating job choice.

00:11:35Sex trafficking should not be called sex work.

00:11:38Responsible governments, organizations,

00:11:40and advocates have a duty to fight

00:11:42this disturbing and twisted ideological trend.

00:11:45Today we will hear, and I am deeply grateful

00:11:48to our witnesses, from Ambassador Cindy Dyer,

00:11:51Ambassador-at-Large to Monitor and Combat

00:11:54Trafficking in Persons, and from Jason Towers,

00:11:57Burma Country Director at the United States

00:11:59Institute of Peace and an expert

00:12:01in Southeast Asian Trafficking Scam Centers.

00:12:05I would like to now yield to my good friend

00:12:06and colleague, Susan Wilde,

00:12:07for any comments you might have.

00:12:09Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.

00:12:11Thank you for convening this.

00:12:12Thank you to our witnesses.

00:12:14I am, as always, appreciative of the opportunity

00:12:17to have this hearing.

00:12:19As I stated in our last hearing on this subject,

00:12:22combating the scourge of human trafficking,

00:12:26especially among children, but not exclusively,

00:12:29should never be a partisan issue.

00:12:31Chairman Smith, I am proud to have worked

00:12:33with you and other members across the aisle

00:12:35on this priority, and I look forward

00:12:37to continuing that work.

00:12:39The release of the 2024 Trafficking in Persons,

00:12:42TIP, report is an opportunity to take stock

00:12:46of the progress we have made and the enormous

00:12:49amount of work that remains to be done.

00:12:53In my view, our priorities remain the same

00:12:54as those I articulated in our last hearing,

00:12:57engaging in robust, principled diplomacy,

00:13:01both bilaterally and in international fora,

00:13:06reporting on countries consistently

00:13:08and without regard to political pressure

00:13:11or geopolitical considerations,

00:13:14and being willing to take on powerful interests,

00:13:18including very profitable corporations

00:13:21that benefit from the appalling reality

00:13:24of child labor.

00:13:26To all the advocates and survivors

00:13:28who may be here today or may be watching this hearing,

00:13:32please know that we stand with you,

00:13:34and we will continue working on your behalf.

00:13:37And with that, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:13:39I yield back.

00:13:41Very much.

00:13:42I'd like to recognize Mr. McCormick.

00:13:46Dr. McCormick.

00:13:48Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:13:49Are we doing questions right now?

00:13:52No, no, just any opening comments?

00:13:52I appreciate you all being here.

00:13:54This is an extremely important topic.

00:13:57I recently got back from Bangladesh

00:13:59for the Cox's Bazar area,

00:14:01which obviously has some issues

00:14:03with the one million people

00:14:04in about a 13 square kilometer area

00:14:07where child labor and human trafficking

00:14:10and child trafficking is a massive problem.

00:14:13But we have our own problems here in the United States,

00:14:15so I'm looking forward to this discussion.

00:14:16Thank you.

00:14:17Thank you.

00:14:22Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:14:24Thank you, Member Wild, as well as my fellow members here.

00:14:28And thank you to the panel for attending today.

00:14:30I appreciate your time in explaining to us

00:14:33a lot of questions that we may have.

00:14:35Being from Guam, I'm very interested in the Indo-Pecan area

00:14:37and will be asking you a few questions.

00:14:39I appreciate your support today.

00:14:40Thank you.

00:14:41Thank you very much.

00:14:44Ambassador Cindy Dyer, and thank you again

00:14:46for being here and for your service,

00:14:48serves as the United States Ambassador-at-Large

00:14:50to Monitor and Combat Trafficking Persons

00:14:52and leads the Department of State's Office

00:14:54to Monitor and Combat Human Trafficking.

00:14:57Ambassador Dyer is a human rights advocate and lawyer

00:14:59with three decades of experience

00:15:01working at the local, national, and international levels

00:15:04to prevent and respond to human trafficking,

00:15:07sexual assault, and domestic violence.

00:15:09In December of 2022, the Senate unanimously confirmed

00:15:12Ambassador Dyer to lead the United States'

00:15:15global engagement in combating human trafficking,

00:15:17and they made a very wise choice.

00:15:19For 12 years, she was the Vice President

00:15:22for Human Rights at Vital Voices Global Partnership,

00:15:25an international NGO advocating

00:15:28and advancing women's leadership,

00:15:30where she worked to assess, improve, and implement policies

00:15:33related to human trafficking and gender-based violence.

00:15:36Prior to joining Vital Voices,

00:15:38she served as a presidential appointment

00:15:42as the Director of the Office of Violence Against Women

00:15:46within the U.S. Department of Justice,

00:15:48where she served as the liaison between DOJ,

00:15:51federal, state, tribal, and international governments

00:15:54on matters involving violence against women.

00:15:57Ambassador Dyer began her career

00:15:59serving as a specialized domestic

00:16:00and sexual violence prosecutor in Dallas, Texas,

00:16:04and did that for more than 13 years.

00:16:07We then will hear from Jason Tower,

00:16:09who is the Burma Country Director

00:16:11of the United States Institute of Peace,

00:16:13and also serves as the Director of USIP's Program

00:16:17on Transnational Crime and Security in Southeast Asia.

00:16:21Mr. Tower joined the USIP in 2019.

00:16:24He has over 20 years of experience

00:16:26working on conflict and security issues in Asia.

00:16:30Since 2020, he has also conducted extensive research

00:16:34and published widely on the rising influence

00:16:36of Chinese origin crime groups across Southeast Asia,

00:16:40particularly in Myanmar.

00:16:42Mr. Tower is one of the first experts

00:16:44to begin documenting the sudden rise

00:16:46of forced labor scamming in mainland Southeast Asia.

00:16:50Since early 2022, he has played a key role

00:16:53in shining light on this poorly understood,

00:16:56but rapidly growing, instance of human trafficking.

00:17:00Thank you for being all here today,

00:17:02and I yield to Ambassador Dyer

00:17:05as such time as she may consume.

00:17:08Thank you.

00:17:09Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Wild,

00:17:10and distinguished members of this subcommittee,

00:17:13thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today

00:17:17to discuss the 2024 Trafficking in Persons Report,

00:17:19or TIP Report, which was released on June 24th,

00:17:23and the Department of State's efforts

00:17:25to monitor and combat human trafficking worldwide.

00:17:27The TIP Report, which my office produces annually,

00:17:30contains narratives detailing global anti-trafficking

00:17:34efforts of 188 countries and territories,

00:17:37including the United States.

00:17:39It is the world's most comprehensive resource

00:17:42of governmental anti-trafficking efforts,

00:17:45including our own, and reflects

00:17:47the U.S. government's commitment to global leadership

00:17:50on this key human rights, law enforcement,

00:17:52and national security issue.

00:17:54This year's TIP Report includes 19 downgrades,

00:17:58with 17 downgrades from Tier 2 to the Tier 2 watch list,

00:18:03including Hong Kong, Laos, Malta, Rwanda, and Uruguay,

00:18:09and two countries, Brunei and Sudan, downgraded to Tier 3.

00:18:14There were 22 countries whose rankings improved,

00:18:17including three, the Republic of Korea, Poland,

00:18:21and Suriname, who were upgraded to Tier 1,

00:18:25and five upgraded from Tier 3.

00:18:29Notable upgrades to Tier 2 include Bolivia, Botswana,

00:18:33Bulgaria, Egypt, Malaysia, South Africa, and Vietnam.

00:18:37The 2024 TIP Report documented several continuing

00:18:41and emerging global trends.

00:18:43First, we continued to track forced labor

00:18:46within Cuba's medical missions across 53 countries,

00:18:51the PRC's Belt and Road Initiative,

00:18:54and other PRC-affiliated projects in 32 countries,

00:19:00and DPRK workers exploited abroad in 19 countries.

00:19:05Second, the department newly documented

00:19:08that Russian authorities, middlemen,

00:19:11private military companies, or Russian-affiliated forces

00:19:15used coercion, deception, and, in some cases, force

00:19:20to recruit foreign nationals,

00:19:22particularly Central and South Asian migrants,

00:19:26as well as citizens from Cuba and Syria,

00:19:30as fighters in support of Russia's

00:19:32war of aggression in Ukraine.

00:19:34And third, the report highlights the continued growth

00:19:38of online scam operations,

00:19:40with centers emerging in new regions,

00:19:42and victims recruited from an expanding list

00:19:45of source countries.

00:19:47While the tier rankings are important,

00:19:49the TIP Report is, above all, the U.S. government's

00:19:53principal diplomatic and diagnostic tool

00:19:56to guide relations with foreign governments

00:19:59on human trafficking, with the narrative

00:20:02and recommendations providing a roadmap to improvement,

00:20:06and the rankings a means to encourage governments

00:20:09to increase and improve their anti-trafficking efforts

00:20:13year after year.

00:20:14In addition to narratives outlining steps

00:20:17governments are proactively undertaking

00:20:21to combat trafficking, the 2024 TIP Report

00:20:25also implicates additional governments

00:20:28in perpetrating the crime itself,

00:20:31with a policy or pattern of trafficking,

00:20:34now including 13 countries, with Belarus

00:20:38added back to the list, and Sudan newly added,

00:20:42alongside 11 countries that have remained on the list,

00:20:45including Cuba, DPRK, PRC, and Russia.

00:20:50This year's TIP Report introduction

00:20:53examines the role of digital technology

00:20:56in the fight against human trafficking.

00:20:58In particular, it highlights how traffickers

00:21:01use digital technology in perpetuating and facilitating

00:21:06human trafficking, but also how digital technology can

00:21:10be used effectively by the anti-trafficking community

00:21:14to monitor and combat this heinous crime.

00:21:17One example of the nexus of human trafficking

00:21:20and digital technology is the phenomenon

00:21:23of online scam operations, often run

00:21:26by local PRC national operated crime syndicates.

00:21:31These scam centers have been predominantly

00:21:34located in Southeast Asia, primarily

00:21:37in Burma, Cambodia, and Laos.

00:21:40The 2024 TIP Report documents the expansion

00:21:44of online scam operations from Southeast Asia

00:21:48to countries in the Western Hemisphere, Europe, Africa,

00:21:52and the Gulf, ensnaring victims from more than 60 countries.

00:21:57But digital technology can also contribute

00:22:01to the solution as well.

00:22:02For example, digital technology can

00:22:05be used to disseminate information

00:22:07to help prevent trafficking and assist victims.

00:22:11It can also empower law enforcement

00:22:13to uncover a digital trail, helping

00:22:16bring perpetrators to justice.

00:22:19Addressing human trafficking in today's world

00:22:21requires an understanding and use of digital technology

00:22:26to uncover evidence of trafficking,

00:22:28protect victims, prosecute perpetrators,

00:22:31and ideally prevent this crime.

00:22:34These efforts will require governments, law enforcement,

00:22:38technology companies, and civil society

00:22:41to work together to develop and utilize

00:22:44innovative technologies and approaches to address today's

00:22:48and tomorrow's challenges.

00:22:51The introduction to this year's TIP Report

00:22:53also addresses other areas of interest,

00:22:56including Cuba's coercive labor export program,

00:23:01in which tens of thousands of workers, the majority of whom

00:23:05are medical professionals, are sent around the world,

00:23:09but often have their wages taken by the Cuban government

00:23:13and are not free to leave the program.

00:23:16Other topics of special interest include forced marriage,

00:23:20trafficking in persons for the purpose of organ removal,

00:23:24the intersection between trafficking and persons

00:23:27with disabilities, and the importance of worker

00:23:30empowerment as a tool in combating labor trafficking.

00:23:34The TIP Office remains committed to listening and centering

00:23:39the voices of those with lived experience of human trafficking,

00:23:43partnering with survivors in meaningful ways,

00:23:47from drafting sections of this year's TIP Report introduction

00:23:51to advising us on our programming

00:23:54is critical to establishing effective victim-centered,

00:23:59trauma-informed, and culturally competent

00:24:02anti-trafficking policies and strategies that

00:24:05address prevention, protection, and prosecution.

00:24:09Survivor input is a central tenet of the federal government's

00:24:13approach to combating human trafficking.

00:24:16As a movement, we must engage survivors early and often

00:24:21in the development of our policies and programs.

00:24:24Allow me to share a few recent examples of State Department

00:24:28survivor engagement.

00:24:30This year, we were honored to have

00:24:32members of the US Advisory Council on Human Trafficking

00:24:36join the US delegation at meetings

00:24:38of the Organization of American States

00:24:41and at the Organization for Security and Cooperation

00:24:45in Europe, delivering remarks on the importance of survivor

00:24:49leadership in anti-trafficking work and other topics,

00:24:53such as prevention strategies.

00:24:55A council member again joined the cabinet officials

00:24:59and other leaders from across the government

00:25:02in the February meeting of the President's Interagency Task

00:25:06Force to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons.

00:25:09The TIP Office has increased funding

00:25:12for locally-based and survivor-led initiatives

00:25:15through its foreign assistance programming.

00:25:18Earlier this year, we invited organizations

00:25:21to submit applications to provide technical assistance

00:25:25to foreign governments, civil society organizations,

00:25:29and public international organizations

00:25:31to establish survivor leadership and partnership structures

00:25:36around the world.

00:25:37While modest in size, our foreign assistance programs,

00:25:41which include bilateral and regional initiatives,

00:25:45child protection compact partnerships,

00:25:48and our research-driven, evidence-based,

00:25:51program-to-end modern slavery projects

00:25:54punch far above their weight in terms of reach and impact.

00:25:58Our multi-year phased approach means

00:26:02that as of the start of this year,

00:26:04we have more than 100 bilateral and regional projects

00:26:09in 84 countries, totaling over $240 million.

00:26:13On the same day we launched the TIP report,

00:26:17we also put out a solicitation for proposals

00:26:20to address recommendations in the report.

00:26:23This includes potential new programming

00:26:26touching priority issues in every region of the world.

00:26:31For example, potential projects focused

00:26:34on online scam operations and reducing the reliance

00:26:38on victim testimony in criminal justice proceedings

00:26:41in the Western Hemisphere, as well as

00:26:45addressing human trafficking

00:26:46in the Belt and Road Initiative.

00:26:48We are also working to establish

00:26:50child protection compact partnerships

00:26:53with several governments, and earlier this year,

00:26:56we launched the Partnership to Prevent Trafficking

00:26:59in Persons with the government of Zambia.

00:27:02This P2P program builds on the partnership model

00:27:06of the CPC program, but expands the anti-trafficking efforts

00:27:11to focus on adults as well as children.

00:27:15As long as there is a profit motive

00:27:16to exploit other human beings for gain,

00:27:20trafficking is at risk of existing.

00:27:23But working together, whether across the aisle

00:27:26or across the ocean, we can work

00:27:28to end this abhorrent practice.

00:27:30So again, thank you for all of your support,

00:27:33and especially Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Wild,

00:27:36and Representatives Salazar, Amada, and Manning,

00:27:40as well as House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman McCall

00:27:44for shepherding the Frederick Douglass

00:27:46Trafficking Victims Prevention and Protection

00:27:49Reauthorization Act of 2023 through the House.

00:27:53I very much hope to see passage

00:27:55of a Trafficking Victims Protection Act

00:27:57reauthorization this Congress.

00:27:59Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

00:28:02Thank you very much, Ambassador,

00:28:03for your testimony and leadership.

00:28:05I'd like to now turn to Mr. Tower.

00:28:11Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Wild,

00:28:13distinguished members of the subcommittee,

00:28:15thank you for the invitation to be here

00:28:17to speak to the growing threat that forced labor scamming

00:28:19represents to the United States and to global security.

00:28:23The United States Institute of Peace

00:28:25is an independent, nonpartisan institute

00:28:27established by the U.S. Congress

00:28:28that works internationally on the prevention

00:28:30and mitigation of violent conflict

00:28:32and to support U.S. national security interests overseas.

00:28:36I'll be speaking today to the findings

00:28:38of a new USIP Senior Study Group report

00:28:40that was published in May of 2024

00:28:43titled Transnational Crime in Southeast Asia,

00:28:45a Growing Threat to Global Peace and Security,

00:28:48as well as to ongoing research undertaken by USIP

00:28:53on issues related to forced labor scamming

00:28:55and the role that especially Chinese origin crime groups

00:28:59play in this new form of crime.

00:29:01Since 2022, a new form of highly sophisticated

00:29:05online scamming known as pig butchering

00:29:07has emerged as a growing threat to U.S. national

00:29:10and global security.

00:29:11And I would say at this point that we really face

00:29:14a global security crisis as a result

00:29:16of this new form of criminality.

00:29:19Pig butchering involves establishing a relationship of trust

00:29:22with a target over an online platform,

00:29:25often this being a romantic relationship

00:29:28through which the perpetrator asserts psychological control

00:29:31over the victim and ultimately the victim is compelled

00:29:35into investing everything that she or he owns

00:29:38into a fraudulent online cryptocurrency platform.

00:29:42The perpetrator then disappears with the funds

00:29:46and in most cases around the world,

00:29:48victims are not only unable to recover

00:29:50their worldly possessions, many of them are often left

00:29:55deeply depressed and we're also seeing growing instances

00:29:58of suicide among those who've been impacted by these scams.

00:30:03This form of scamming is being perpetrated

00:30:05by transnational organized crime groups

00:30:07from the People's Republic of China based in Southeast Asia

00:30:11where they have relocated over the past two decades

00:30:13and where they've established a web of elite influence

00:30:18and in some instances have even taken over control

00:30:21of territories establishing criminal zones

00:30:24from which they can engage in criminal activity and impunity.

00:30:28These PRC origin crime groups have set up thousands

00:30:32of compounds to house these pig butchering scams

00:30:35across the region and they're presently spanning out

00:30:39of the Southeast Asia region into other parts of the world,

00:30:43notably into Dubai and into Africa.

00:30:48The US lost over 3.5 billion US dollars to these scams

00:30:53perpetrated by the Chinese origin crime groups

00:30:56out of Southeast Asia in 2023 and that's only the amount

00:31:00that has been reported, noting that the majority

00:31:03of the cases go unreported.

00:31:05Globally USIP found that these criminal groups steal

00:31:08over 63 billion US dollars per year from people

00:31:12in more than 100 different countries.

00:31:14They have powered these scams using forced labor,

00:31:17tricking hundreds of thousands of people into cyber slavery

00:31:20through online recruitment scams, another form of scamming

00:31:24which involves enticing victims with the promise

00:31:27of high paying jobs only to traffic them

00:31:30into forced labor conditions where they're subjected

00:31:34to torture, often threatened to be sold into slavery

00:31:38and other compounds if they do not successfully scam

00:31:41or meet very aggressive targets

00:31:45by the scam syndicate operators.

00:31:47Nationals of 66 countries including the United States

00:31:51have been trafficked or otherwise tricked

00:31:53into these scam compounds.

00:31:55This is happening on an industrial scale

00:31:57in three countries, Myanmar, Cambodia and in Laos

00:32:01but is also found in the Philippines and again,

00:32:05it's spreading further around the world with evidence

00:32:07of these scam syndicates having been found

00:32:10in several different jurisdictions.

00:32:13The scams depend on the criminal actors maintaining free

00:32:17and open access to a full range of social media platforms

00:32:21and recruitment websites.

00:32:23So many of the victims, both of the scams,

00:32:26the pig butchering scams as well as human trafficking

00:32:29are targeted over common platforms such as Facebook,

00:32:33WhatsApp, WeChat, TikTok or LinkedIn.

00:32:37These criminal groups also maintain deep ties

00:32:39in mainland China with much of the infrastructure

00:32:42that houses these scam syndicates today actually being built

00:32:47by Chinese state-owned enterprises

00:32:49which accepted lucrative contracts

00:32:51from the Chinese crime groups to build the infrastructure

00:32:54where these victims of human trafficking

00:32:57and forced labor scamming are now held.

00:33:00The criminal syndicates have also built deep relationships

00:33:03in almost every country in Southeast Asia

00:33:05where they tap into key cross-border resources

00:33:09needed to fuel the scam centers.

00:33:11This includes using countries such as Thailand and Vietnam

00:33:14as transit countries for victims of human trafficking,

00:33:18using Singapore, the Philippines and Malaysia

00:33:21to launder funds and to develop new financial tools

00:33:25and cryptocurrency products that are used in the scams

00:33:30as well as really targeting every country

00:33:33in the Southeast Asia region with forced labor scamming.

00:33:39And we're seeing that actually the region

00:33:41in the countries of ASEAN

00:33:42are some of the hardest hit countries

00:33:44both in terms of losses to the scams

00:33:46as well as trafficking victims into scam centers.

00:33:52This activity now represents a direct threat

00:33:54to U.S. interests at home and abroad.

00:33:57According to U.S. authorities,

00:33:59Americans are now targeted more than any other group

00:34:01in the world by these scams.

00:34:04This is being accelerated by an aggressive crackdown

00:34:07that the Chinese government has undertaken since 2022

00:34:11on scams that are targeting Chinese nationals.

00:34:14The result is that the Chinese origin crime syndicates

00:34:17are adapting.

00:34:19China reported a 30% decrease in these scams

00:34:21over the past eight months

00:34:23while the U.S. reports unprecedented losses

00:34:26as many of the criminal syndicates

00:34:28have pivoted to targeting more Americans

00:34:31and targeting more of a global population.

00:34:34These trends also undermine years of U.S. investments

00:34:37in countering human trafficking.

00:34:40For the first time, you're seeing countries like Myanmar,

00:34:43Cambodia and Laos become destination countries

00:34:46of human trafficking.

00:34:47And according to a recent report by Interpol,

00:34:51anyone anywhere can now become a victim of trafficking

00:34:54simply by applying for a job online.

00:34:57Another threat to the U.S. stems from China's response

00:35:00to these crimes.

00:35:02With many countries becoming more desperate

00:35:04to find a solution,

00:35:06China is leveraging this issue

00:35:07to strengthen the influence of its police

00:35:10and its authoritarian form of policing around the globe,

00:35:13enhancing also its security influence

00:35:16which threatens U.S. investments in democracy,

00:35:19governance and human rights.

00:35:22Sadly, the response to this phenomenon to present

00:35:24is limited, ad hoc and uncoordinated.

00:35:28Awareness of the pig butchering scams in the U.S.

00:35:30and many other countries around the world remains low.

00:35:34Law enforcement is not tooled with the technologies

00:35:37and skills needed to trace and seize

00:35:39especially cryptocurrency,

00:35:40that is the main form of currency stolen by these scams.

00:35:46Social media companies are not held accountable

00:35:48when their platforms are used to traffic victims

00:35:51or to steal billions of dollars from unsuspecting victims.

00:35:55Resources for victim response are also limited

00:35:59given the new patterns and victims of human trafficking

00:36:01and the traditional organizations that are responding

00:36:06not being tooled with resources needed

00:36:08to support those victims.

00:36:11When it comes to human trafficking into the compounds,

00:36:13efforts are also very ad hoc.

00:36:16Recent cases of victims from Morocco and Uganda

00:36:19that were trafficked into Myanmar

00:36:21required that senior officials from those countries

00:36:25be sent out to the region to engage in weeks of negotiations

00:36:29with criminals and armed groups in Myanmar

00:36:32controlling these compounds

00:36:35with many of the victims being injured

00:36:37or even killed trying to get out.

00:36:39In other cases, families have paid large ransoms

00:36:43to extract their relatives

00:36:45that have been trapped in these centers

00:36:47with there being instances of people paying

00:36:49up to $100,000 to retrieve their relatives

00:36:53from the scam centers.

00:36:55Others have been treated as criminals

00:36:57rather than victims of trafficking when being brought out

00:37:00and this is happening especially

00:37:01in the People's Republic of China

00:37:04but then also across the region more broadly.

00:37:08In our USIP Senior Study Group report on these issues,

00:37:13we identify this as a growing threat

00:37:15to global peace and security

00:37:17and we urge that the US considers

00:37:20a whole of government response to this phenomenon

00:37:23of forced labor trafficking.

00:37:26Potentially, this could be led

00:37:27by the National Security Council

00:37:29which could establish an interagency task force

00:37:32to steer this effort both at home and abroad

00:37:36as well as to assert US leadership

00:37:38on this issue internationally.

00:37:40The report also looks at other options

00:37:43including advancing much more robust

00:37:45international cooperation to systematically constrain

00:37:48the criminal networks that are behind these scams.

00:37:51This may require leveraging sanctions

00:37:54or other punitive measures to target the malign actors

00:37:57that are behind these scams including elites

00:38:00in countries that continue to provide criminal actors

00:38:02with protection in Myanmar, Cambodia,

00:38:05and Laos in particular.

00:38:08The report also looks to increase investments

00:38:13in the gathering and sharing of information

00:38:16on all aspects of the forced labor scamming industry

00:38:19and in the building of the capacity of law enforcement

00:38:22and regulatory agencies to recover funds

00:38:24particularly by enhancing capacities

00:38:27to trace cryptocurrencies.

00:38:29It also suggests engaging

00:38:32in a nationwide public awareness raising program

00:38:36to protect US citizens and also that the US

00:38:40supports similar awareness raising programs internationally.

00:38:45Other recommendations include investments

00:38:48in prevention of new forms

00:38:50of technology-fueled human trafficking,

00:38:53focusing specifically on mobilizing active involvement

00:38:57of the private sector in reversing some of these trends

00:39:00in the social media space.

00:39:02And lastly, we call to hold the PRC accountable

00:39:06given that it was in fact the People's Republic of China

00:39:10that played a significant role

00:39:12in enabling this current crisis.

00:39:15Look at demanding that China share intelligence

00:39:18on these issues and take decisive action

00:39:20to prevent Chinese origin crime groups

00:39:22from harming the United States

00:39:24and maybe a similar manner as to what we've done

00:39:26around the fentanyl crisis.

00:39:28Thank you for inviting me to testify

00:39:30and I look forward to questions.

00:39:32Mr. Tarra, thank you very much

00:39:34and for highlighting a seriously underappreciated

00:39:37and unacknowledged problem that's happening

00:39:40as well as your other work.

00:39:41Thank you for that.

00:39:43I would like to ask a couple of questions

00:39:45and reveal to my colleagues that I have more

00:39:48questions I would like to pose.

00:39:50I'd like to start off with the whole issue.

00:39:52Remember last time, Ambassador Dyer,

00:39:54I asked you about the unaccompanied minors, the 85,000.

00:39:58That was the generally accepted number

00:39:59of those coming across our border

00:40:01who we had lost contact with.

00:40:03Did not know, I mean, I reached out to Homeland Security

00:40:06as you recommended and we still don't know

00:40:09what happened to those kids.

00:40:11And that number could be far in excess of that now.

00:40:15We don't know.

00:40:16It probably is.

00:40:17And HHS as well, but Homeland Security

00:40:20is what you had recommended.

00:40:21We reached out to both.

00:40:22And I'm wondering, you know, what can be done?

00:40:25Are we trying to track those kids?

00:40:27Find out where they are?

00:40:29I mean, I'm a great advocate of adoption

00:40:31and I know how important home studies are

00:40:33and how important it is to vet those

00:40:36who are going to receive a child

00:40:39and make that child part of their home.

00:40:41Well, when that conveyance of that child

00:40:43is occurring en masse, and that's what has been happening,

00:40:47those kinds of very high bar standards

00:40:50are not even close to being fulfilled.

00:40:53So it would be easy for a scammer

00:40:56to get their hands on a kid

00:40:58to sexually exploit and or labor exploitation.

00:41:02But we still seem to be woefully

00:41:08ill-informed about what about those kids.

00:41:14The plight of the unaccompanied children

00:41:17who have, especially those who have been identified

00:41:21working in completely inappropriate workplace environments

00:41:26that has been reported in the news, it is heartbreaking.

00:41:29I do recall your interest and your passion for this subject

00:41:32and I am happy to report what we have done most recently.

00:41:39In particular, the State Department works closely

00:41:43with our colleagues at DHS and HHS

00:41:47who share responsibility for processing

00:41:51unaccompanied children and caring for them,

00:41:54placing them and discharging them hopefully

00:41:57into loving and appropriate homes.

00:42:01We know that the increase in the reports

00:42:06of child labor violations, especially as we spoke about

00:42:09of migrant children, it is terrible in itself

00:42:13and it is a risk factor for becoming

00:42:16a risk of trafficking persons.

00:42:20This is something that actually we covered

00:42:22fairly significantly in the U.S. narrative

00:42:25of this year's Trafficking in Persons Report.

00:42:29HHS is vetting and assessing sponsors

00:42:33and they have in fact expanded their post-release services

00:42:38and they are committed to expanding

00:42:40those post-release services to all of the children

00:42:44that have been placed with a sponsor.

00:42:47In particular, the Trafficking in Persons Report,

00:42:51as we address this issue globally,

00:42:53we are specifically recommending increased funding

00:42:56so that all children have legal representation.

00:43:01Having access to a legal counsel

00:43:04will provide specific security and safety for them.

00:43:08Additionally, we, and I think this is something

00:43:11that you had brought up, are encouraging

00:43:13and recommending increased in-person wellness checks.

00:43:17As we know, the children that you have spoken about

00:43:21were individuals, they were with a sponsor

00:43:23that did not respond to a phone call.

00:43:25And so our Trafficking in Persons Report

00:43:27is therefore recommending then in-person wellness checks

00:43:31for individuals that don't respond to a phone call.

00:43:34If I can interrupt, is that being done now?

00:43:36That is recommended in the report and I do know that.

00:43:40That doesn't take legislation,

00:43:41that just takes executive action.

00:43:44Why won't they do it?

00:43:44What we know for sure is that HHS has already expanded

00:43:49the post-relief services and they are seeking funding

00:43:53to expand them to all children.

00:43:55I think more specificity, I might need to refer

00:43:59to my colleagues at HHS, but I do know that they have,

00:44:02and this was reported in the Trafficking in Persons Report

00:44:05as a positive development.

00:44:07There was a notable expansion of services,

00:44:11specifically post-release services to children.

00:44:15Has there been any accountability for the 85,000?

00:44:17Have any been discovered to have been exploited?

00:44:20Have they been brought to a safe haven of some kind,

00:44:23whether it be with a family or some government institution?

00:44:27What about those kids?

00:44:28I think that the specific circumstances

00:44:31of the individual children would be something

00:44:34that maybe we would have to refer to my colleagues at HHS.

00:44:39I don't have access to the specific

00:44:41identifying information.

00:44:42Could you make that inquiry?

00:44:43I mean, you are the top tip person.

00:44:45Yes, and as you know-

00:44:46We believe in our own neighborhoods,

00:44:47these kids are being horribly mistreated.

00:44:49We don't know.

00:44:51They're probably very afraid to come forward.

00:44:55And in the FY 2023 amount, 15 million,

00:45:00that was reduced, it was 18 million in 2022.

00:45:04So it looks like there's even less money available for this.

00:45:08So I don't think it's a matter of money.

00:45:09I think it's a matter of prioritization to say,

00:45:11if that were my child, heaven and earth would be moved

00:45:15before I would say, oh, that person is okay,

00:45:17when you have any kind of doubt whatsoever.

00:45:20Again, using the model, if I could, of adoption.

00:45:23I mean, we do vigorous, vigorous vetting with adoption.

00:45:27Even there, there's problems,

00:45:28but they're mitigated because of that vetting process.

00:45:30So if you could get back to us with that,

00:45:32it would be extraordinary.

00:45:33Yes, as you know, we work closely

00:45:35through the Senior Policy Operating Group.

00:45:37And in fact, some of these improvements

00:45:40that were noted in the TIP report

00:45:41were discussed in those meetings,

00:45:44and we are happy to follow up on that.

00:45:45Okay, thank you.

00:45:46You know, you mentioned the Senior Policy Operating Group.

00:45:50COVID taught us that many of these purveyors

00:45:53of harm to children quickly during COVID-19

00:45:58went to using the internet and using it very effectively

00:46:02to recruit, groom, and ECPAT did one report after another

00:46:06and exposed, and we also, you know,

00:46:08like a chorus, called out for more protection

00:46:11for these kids, and I'm just wondering,

00:46:14what do you think needs to be done

00:46:18to further protect kids from that kind

00:46:20of online exploitation where they're groomed?

00:46:23I mean, we saw in one instance,

00:46:25there was a grooming that took place within an hour.

00:46:28You know, the person befriended this vulnerable young girl,

00:46:32and next thing you know, she was being exploited.

00:46:35It equally goes for the boys too,

00:46:36where these people are masters,

00:46:39and very masterful at exploiting people.

00:46:42What are we doing on that front?

00:46:45As the Trafficking in Persons report has noted,

00:46:48and as you have said, we have definitely seen

00:46:50an increase in online sexual exploitation of children,

00:46:54sex trafficking of children,

00:46:56and child sexual abuse material

00:47:00in both the US and other countries post-COVID,

00:47:04and we absolutely acknowledge

00:47:06that social media can be used to allure kids.

00:47:09This is one of the reasons that the TIP report highlighted

00:47:12the introduction focusing on technology

00:47:15and its impact on trafficking,

00:47:17and how it can be used for good and also for bad.

00:47:21Specific to your questions, we recommend

00:47:24that parents, government, tech companies,

00:47:28and media partner, we believe

00:47:31that there should be a prioritization,

00:47:34on education so that children have online safety tools.

00:47:39Additionally, if kids are online,

00:47:41we are suggesting and promoting

00:47:44that perhaps developing and utilizing online tools,

00:47:47and meet them where they are.

00:47:49We also know that technology can be used for good.

00:47:53It can help identify victims.

00:47:55It can help victims self-report,

00:47:58and it can help victims access service

00:48:00and know about service.

00:48:01There are a couple of examples

00:48:03of where technology has been used for good

00:48:06that I will flag.

00:48:07One is the Trafficking in Persons Office

00:48:10has supported the International Center

00:48:12for Missing and Exploited Children,

00:48:14who are using a multilingual virtual training

00:48:19to provide much-needed training

00:48:22on how to use technology in many different languages

00:48:25to thousands of criminal justice professionals.

00:48:28I will also highlight the very successful

00:48:30Child Protection Compact that was focused

00:48:33on Philippines and specifically

00:48:34on online sexual exploitation,

00:48:36which has seen a measurable decrease in that crime.

00:48:39So I think that this is an opportunity

00:48:41for us to be aware of how it can be dangerous,

00:48:45but also utilize how it can be effective.

00:48:48And there are a couple of other notes about this

00:48:51that are noted in the introduction,

00:48:53including IOM has a counter-trafficking data collaborative,

00:48:59which makes data more available.

00:49:01And one other one, which I think is a good example

00:49:03of companies doing good,

00:49:06IBM has a traffic analysis hub,

00:49:10which uses AI data sets

00:49:12to help us better respond to this problem.

00:49:14I appreciate your interest,

00:49:16and that was exactly why we had the technology focus

00:49:19in our introduction this year.

00:49:21I'll just ask two others,

00:49:22and then in the second round,

00:49:23I have some additional questions,

00:49:25because I'm out of deference

00:49:26to my good friend and colleagues,

00:49:27and ask them to take however much time

00:49:29they would like as well.

00:49:32With Cuba, you did mention,

00:49:34and we do know that Cuba is a situation

00:49:36where they forcibly send healthcare workers

00:49:41to other countries,

00:49:42and I'm wondering what those recipient countries

00:49:44are doing to ensure that they're not receiving

00:49:47a forced laborer coming to their shores.

00:49:50I remember years ago,

00:49:52I had a hearing in 2012 with Dr. Oscar Bichette,

00:49:55who was an OB-GYN who was horribly mistreated

00:49:59by Fidel Castro, put in solitary prison.

00:50:02He was an OB-GYN, like I said,

00:50:03and he was just an amazing man.

00:50:06He actually came and testified, not here,

00:50:09but on the island of Cuba,

00:50:10through a clandestine means,

00:50:12that's how brave this man is,

00:50:13and he talked about that,

00:50:15and just how foolish the Western world is,

00:50:18vis-a-vis Cuba, in buying into these false narratives,

00:50:21and I'll give an example myself.

00:50:23I nominated, I was one of many,

00:50:24but I led the effort in the Congress

00:50:25to have Leo Chabot named

00:50:27as the Nobel Peace Prize winner,

00:50:29and he got it, so I was there

00:50:32at the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony,

00:50:34dinner with some of the Nobel Peace Prize

00:50:36members of the parliament to do the actual selection,

00:50:39so I asked them all about Cuba,

00:50:42and they said, oh, they have a great health system,

00:50:44and they export doctors,

00:50:46and I said, do you know those doctors go under duress,

00:50:49and that's putting it mildly,

00:50:51that they do not go voluntarily,

00:50:53they are forced, it's not like some benign,

00:50:56humanitarian initiative on the part of the Cuban government,

00:50:58it's a way of promoting their policies

00:51:02at the expense of these men and women

00:51:05who were forced into that service.

00:51:08I was amazed that they were so ill-informed about that,

00:51:12so what are these other countries doing

00:51:15to say, if you're gonna send us doctors,

00:51:18LPNs, nurses and the like,

00:51:21we wanna make sure they're coming

00:51:22in an absolute voluntary fashion.

00:51:24Secondly, on Vietnam,

00:51:29I've chaired dozens of hearings on Vietnam,

00:51:31gone there many times.

00:51:34I remember when CPC was coming up,

00:51:37Country of Particular Concern,

00:51:39and the Bush administration,

00:51:41in order to carry favor with them

00:51:43to get a trade deal,

00:51:46lifted the Country of Particular Concern,

00:51:48even though the policies were egregious

00:51:51when it came to religious freedom,

00:51:54wiped it all out, gave it to them,

00:51:55and they said, the day that they got

00:51:58the trade agreement,

00:52:01that there will be no linkage whatsoever

00:52:03to human rights, including religious freedom.

00:52:05I couldn't believe how brazen they were,

00:52:07and how unappreciative they were

00:52:09to the kowtowing by George W. Bush,

00:52:11which he did, and I argued with them incessantly.

00:52:14I have been trying ever since to get that back.

00:52:17There's a parallel here, in my humble opinion,

00:52:20with trafficking,

00:52:22because we want to carry favor

00:52:24with the Vietnamese government vis-a-vis China,

00:52:26for example, as maybe like a new China card,

00:52:29going back to the old Soviet Union mentality.

00:52:34We're willing to overlook very serious

00:52:36human rights abuses against journalists,

00:52:38on religious freedom, and torture,

00:52:43and trafficking, and I've been arguing,

00:52:46I have a bill in right now,

00:52:47called the Vietnam Human Rights Act.

00:52:49Zoe Lofgren is the Prince Democrat

00:52:52primary co-sponsor.

00:52:54We really believe it's a bipartisan effort,

00:52:56it's passed three times,

00:52:57gone over to the Senate,

00:52:58and holes get put on it,

00:53:00because we're not gonna tell them

00:53:01what to do on human rights.

00:53:03It's like, if they have a good human rights policy,

00:53:05we want to applaud them, not hold them to account.

00:53:08I can't figure out why Vietnam

00:53:10is not a tier three country.

00:53:13I followed very closely.

00:53:16Forced labor is a problem,

00:53:17sex trafficking is always a problem,

00:53:19but forced labor is a problem,

00:53:21and even the first prosecution under my law,

00:53:24the Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000,

00:53:27was against the Vietnamese government.

00:53:29Of all things, they never paid up,

00:53:31they never did anything.

00:53:32They just looked the other way,

00:53:33and hoisted their finger at us

00:53:35in a very disrespectful way.

00:53:37So I can't get, how do they get off,

00:53:41or how are they not on tier three?

00:53:44Those two questions.

00:53:45I'll answer them in reverse order, sir.

00:53:47With regard to Vietnam,

00:53:49please know that our staff works all year.

00:53:53I know that the TIP report

00:53:54gets a lot of flurry of attention in June,

00:53:57but please know that our staff

00:53:58is working all year long

00:54:00to obtain as much information

00:54:02about countries as we can.

00:54:04We are working here in D.C.,

00:54:05but also our staff in the embassies around the world.

00:54:09And we are working to gather information

00:54:12from not only governments,

00:54:13but also all sources available,

00:54:16including NGOs, international organization,

00:54:19open sources, and media.

00:54:21And then objectively assessing

00:54:23the information that we obtain

00:54:25against the minimum standards in the TVPA,

00:54:28and then specifically comparing

00:54:30that information to the year before.

00:54:33As you very well know,

00:54:34Vietnam was in a situation

00:54:36where they could not stay on the tier two watch list.

00:54:39They had to go up or down this year.

00:54:41Our choice was putting them up to tier two

00:54:45or down to tier three.

00:54:46When we looked at the information

00:54:49that we obtained from every different source

00:54:51throughout the entire year

00:54:52and compared it to how Vietnam did last year,

00:54:57they had improved from how they did last year.

00:55:01Specifically, we noted an increase

00:55:04in investigations, prosecutions, and convictions.

00:55:08But as we know,

00:55:09prosecution alone is not what we look at.

00:55:11We also saw an increase in victim identification

00:55:15and assistance to those victims.

00:55:18So the protection measure had increased.

00:55:21Specifically of particular note

00:55:23is the online scam operations.

00:55:25Vietnam repatriated more than 4,000 victims

00:55:30from online scam operations.

00:55:32And they also consulted with NGOs

00:55:36and international organizations

00:55:37on their amended legislation.

00:55:40Now, they absolutely have a big improvement

00:55:44that they need to do.

00:55:45And this was very critically pointed out in the narrative,

00:55:49specifically regarding concerns about complicity.

00:55:53We noted that they closed the investigation

00:55:56and reinstated a person who was allegedly complicit

00:56:01in very harmful practices.

00:56:03Additionally, we also acknowledge and called out

00:56:06that they did not consistently screen

00:56:09and identify victims who were rescued, so to speak,

00:56:14from those online scam operations.

00:56:17But when we looked at the data that we obtained this year

00:56:21and compared it to last year as required by the TVPA,

00:56:25it was more appropriate to move them up than down

00:56:28when comparing those two years.

00:56:30I would love to turn my attention now

00:56:33to the first question that you asked me regarding Cuba.

00:56:36And I have to say that I had a similar situation

00:56:40as what you described.

00:56:41I had the benefit of meeting with several survivors

00:56:46of individuals specifically from Cuba's medical missions.

00:56:50And I met directly with these amazing heroes.

00:56:54Some of them had left that mission years before.

00:56:58Some of them had left only one or two years.

00:57:01So we had a huge range of age span.

00:57:05And it was really that meeting with them

00:57:07that inspired us to have a special interest box on Cuba

00:57:10and to more vehemently call this out

00:57:13and specifically state that the government of Cuba

00:57:16does profit from forced labor in their export program.

00:57:20It is, in fact, a significant revenue source.

00:57:23Obviously, as you well know,

00:57:25we have been raising these concerns since 2010,

00:57:28and it's been a policy and pattern country for five years.

00:57:32But what we have done this year

00:57:34is take that meeting with participants of this program

00:57:38and worked with them to develop survivor-recommended

00:57:44suggestions and recommendations for countries,

00:57:46for countries who are going to participate in this program

00:57:50despite the severe concerns about forced labor.

00:57:54There are things that these survivors want them to do.

00:57:58And so we have taken that survivor-led recommendation list

00:58:02and shared it with every country that we know of

00:58:05who participates in that program.

00:58:08I'll give you an example of some of the information

00:58:10that's included in there,

00:58:12which means investigating the conditions regularly

00:58:16of these medical professionals,

00:58:18auditing any numbers or reports

00:58:22that the Cuban medical professionals may give you,

00:58:25contracting directly with the doctors

00:58:28rather than with the government of Cuba,

00:58:30making your agreement public,

00:58:32which is currently not done.

00:58:34And then the final thing that I'll say,

00:58:36just to make sure that we were using

00:58:39every opportunity that we had,

00:58:41I spoke personally with the special rapporteur

00:58:46on contemporary forms of slavery, Obokata,

00:58:50and the special rapporteur

00:58:52on trafficking in persons, Maleli,

00:58:54so that we are organizing our efforts

00:58:57and coalescing and really presenting a united front

00:59:03to address this terrible abuse.

00:59:05Thank you so much for asking me about it.

00:59:07I would just point out that Vietnam,

00:59:10there was a June 24th Reuters story,

00:59:13and I'm sure you saw it,

00:59:14and the questions are being raised

00:59:16about Hanoi's accuracy, honesty,

00:59:18in conveying information to us.

00:59:21And when you have a government that is known for abuse

00:59:24in a myriad of areas,

00:59:29there needs to be a sense of skepticism,

00:59:31healthy skepticism, to accept their numbers.

00:59:35And human rights groups have raised that with you,

00:59:37and I hope you take that back.

00:59:39And to compare it to last time,

00:59:41last time they should have been tier three,

00:59:43they should have been tier three for a number of times,

00:59:46because they are,

00:59:47and I worry that geopolitical considerations

00:59:49are crowding out the concern for human rights,

00:59:52and trafficking in particular,

00:59:54because of this other part of our geopolitical strategy

00:59:58for that area vis-a-vis China.

01:00:00So I do thank you for your answer,

01:00:01but if you could just keep that in mind.

01:00:04And Dr. Tong is here, I just want to point out,

01:00:06he's a Boat People SOS that has been a great friend

01:00:09and advocate for the people of Vietnam.

01:00:12And just to give an example,

01:00:13I'm sorry for my colleagues going on,

01:00:16but back when during the Clinton administration

01:00:18they wanted to forcibly repatriate

01:00:20people who were part of the Comprehensive Plan of Action,

01:00:24they were numbers of people deployed all over Asia,

01:00:27including, and I went to different refugee sites,

01:00:31including High Island and in Hong Kong,

01:00:33and we were forcibly sending people back,

01:00:36saying they're not refugees.

01:00:38And he came forward, he being Dr. Tong,

01:00:41with credible, actionable information

01:00:43that there was a corruption rampant

01:00:46in the selection process.

01:00:48I did an amendment on the floor

01:00:50that passed that ensured that we did it,

01:00:52that we didn't have somebody else contracted out,

01:00:55and 20,000 people came over.

01:00:57But I had four hearings on that,

01:00:58and the administration was adamant that,

01:01:00no, these aren't refugees.

01:01:02They have repatriation monitors that are waiting.

01:01:05When they come to Vietnam, no reeducation camp for them.

01:01:08Instead, they will be monitored.

01:01:11So I had a hearing with the monitor, one of them,

01:01:13there were only seven, and I said,

01:01:15who accompanies you when you're in that village

01:01:18or town or whatever it might be?

01:01:20And he said, well, the secret police.

01:01:22So do you think anybody's gonna say,

01:01:24oh, by the way, I'm in for a horrible time here

01:01:28when sitting right next to him

01:01:29is somebody from the secret police?

01:01:30Ain't gonna happen.

01:01:31So, you know, Hanoi has a horrible reputation

01:01:35for dishonesty.

01:01:36I'd like to now yield to Dr. McCormack.

01:01:40Thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:01:44Appreciate you all being here today.

01:01:45This is an incredibly important topic,

01:01:47one of dire consequences for those people who are involved.

01:01:51I think we're all aware of it, and we all care very much so.

01:01:54So I would never accuse anybody of anything other than that.

01:01:56I think everybody here really cares.

01:02:00That's why we're here.

01:02:02With that said, I'd also like to take an opportunity

01:02:05to recognize Governor Kemp in Georgia,

01:02:08and First Lady Marty for their efforts

01:02:10to clean up what we believe is a hub

01:02:13for child trafficking in Atlanta,

01:02:14which we really tried to tackle

01:02:15and take it very seriously in our home state.

01:02:20I think it's interesting, Ms. Ambassador,

01:02:24that we're currently in the Tier 1 category,

01:02:27I believe, correct?

01:02:29Have we been there?

01:02:30Have we ever not been in Tier 1?

01:02:31We have not.

01:02:32Okay.

01:02:33And I think the Tier 2 category,

01:02:38I'm just gonna read off the list

01:02:40of what it's defined as, as far as what we,

01:02:42because we're researching what defines each category.

01:02:45Tier 2 is countries whose governments

01:02:47do not fully meet the Trafficking Victims Protection Act,

01:02:49minimum standards, but are making significant efforts

01:02:52to bring themselves to compliance with those standards,

01:02:55and for which the estimated number of victims

01:02:57of severe forms of trafficking is very significant

01:02:59or significantly increasing,

01:03:01and their country is not taking

01:03:03proportional concrete actions.

01:03:08One thing that disturbs me, and I mentioned before

01:03:10that I had just come back from Bangladesh

01:03:13and Cox's Bazaar, where they have a million people there,

01:03:16and they're in Tier 2, and I'm sure Malaysia's even worse.

01:03:22I didn't see them, or sorry, Myanmar,

01:03:24I didn't even see them on the list,

01:03:25but I'm sure they're not doing well.

01:03:28You have a million people,

01:03:29but each person has strict accountability.

01:03:31We can literally keep track of every single person there.

01:03:33Why?

01:03:34Because they have to subsist on $8 per person per month.

01:03:37So they track that pretty, pretty incredibly strictly,

01:03:40right, so we have good accountability to people.

01:03:42Here in the United States, we lack the same accountability.

01:03:47One thing that disturbs me greatly

01:03:48is we have a southern border.

01:03:50We've had at least 10 million people

01:03:52come across in the last few years.

01:03:54Of that, at least in the 21, 22 era,

01:03:58we had 85,000 children come across,

01:04:01which a significant portion of them

01:04:03were handed over to people.

01:04:04We have no idea who they are

01:04:06in relationship to the children.

01:04:08We stopped the DNA testing.

01:04:11We stopped DNA testing,

01:04:13which we knew at least around 9%

01:04:15were unrelated genetically,

01:04:17so then we stopped it for some reason.

01:04:19Knowing that that's a problem,

01:04:21knowing that the coyotes and traffickers of children

01:04:25would use that against those children,

01:04:27we stopped testing people genetically.

01:04:30Single parents coming across

01:04:32who could be kidnapping their children

01:04:35from the other parent.

01:04:37We don't do anything about that.

01:04:39We have up to 70% of all women being sexually exploited

01:04:43as they come across the southern border,

01:04:44and we have two million that got away.

01:04:46We have no idea anything about them,

01:04:48including the children that get away.

01:04:50They haven't even been addressed.

01:04:52So how is it the United States is doing a good job,

01:04:56and Bangladesh is doing a bad job in comparison?

01:04:59Because it seems a bit hypocritical to me.

01:05:02Thank you, and you actually bring up a really good point

01:05:04that I want to take the opportunity to sort of clarify.

01:05:08The Trafficking in Persons Report

01:05:10compares a government's efforts

01:05:13during the reporting period

01:05:15to how that government did

01:05:17during the previous reporting period.

01:05:19It doesn't actually compare countries to one another.

01:05:23The way that it was wisely set up

01:05:26is that the government is doing a good job

01:05:29and the way that it was wisely set up

01:05:32is that we have metrics and pieces of data

01:05:35that we compare for this reporting period

01:05:37versus how that country did the reporting period before.

01:05:41So addressing that, apples to apples,

01:05:43United States to United States,

01:05:45before we tested people's DNA,

01:05:47before we had a secure border,

01:05:49before people weren't coming over and unaccounted for,

01:05:51before we didn't have 85,000 children

01:05:53coming across with no accountability,

01:05:57how are we not doing worse

01:05:59in our tier comparison to the previous years?

01:06:02That's my question.

01:06:03In this reporting period,

01:06:05I'll tell you some of the specific pieces of data

01:06:09that we did consider in this analysis.

01:06:11One is that more money was spent for services.

01:06:15Another was that the administration

01:06:18deployed the most agents and officials ever.

01:06:22Okay, I'm gonna stop you right there

01:06:23because I hear this all the time.

01:06:25Money spent, how's that doing for schools?

01:06:27Money spent, how's that doing for the border?

01:06:29More border patrol agents to do what?

01:06:32Process people in.

01:06:32That's why they're not undocumented migrants.

01:06:37They're very well-documented illegal invaders,

01:06:39just to make a point.

01:06:41Allow me to give a different number.

01:06:42We had an increase in the number of federal prosecutions

01:06:48and an increase in the number of convictions

01:06:50for both sex trafficking and labor trafficking

01:06:54as compared to the year before.

01:06:56We also did-

01:06:58How many by numeric standards did you have an increase in?

01:07:01How many more prosecutions, numerically?

01:07:04I do not have that figure in front of me,

01:07:07but I'm happy to follow up with you.

01:07:07Okay, so I'm just gonna make another point.

01:07:09When you have 10 million people come across the border,

01:07:12you have no genetic testing,

01:07:13you know that people are being sexually exploited,

01:07:16you don't know which children belong to who,

01:07:19I think that's a severe lack of accountability.

01:07:21I think it's hypocritical,

01:07:22and I think we need to stop with the cooking of the books.

01:07:25We need to have accountability.

01:07:27We should go back to genetic testing.

01:07:29We should not be encouraging people

01:07:30to come across the border massed by coyotes

01:07:33who basically exploit child trafficking,

01:07:35human trafficking, illegal drug trafficking.

01:07:38This is a catastrophe of the southern border

01:07:40that is absolutely undeniably affecting children

01:07:45in the most negative and egregious ways

01:07:47we should be ashamed of ourselves.

01:07:48And I don't think you're understanding my point

01:07:52when I'm saying we are not doing our job.

01:07:54As a tier one nation who's supposed to be leading the way,

01:07:57the United States with all the technologies,

01:08:00all the things we say we stand for,

01:08:02not giving children the right representation

01:08:05when it comes to accountability

01:08:06and making sure they are not raped and trafficked

01:08:10and taken away from their families

01:08:12because we just don't know, and that's the truth.

01:08:15And that's what I wanna leave you with.

01:08:16I think unless you can explain

01:08:19how we have better accountability

01:08:20than we did four years ago,

01:08:23I just don't think it's worth the conversation

01:08:24until we can actually get back to that point.

01:08:26I think that one of the things

01:08:27is that the president independently issued a proclamation

01:08:31which suspended irregular entry

01:08:34until the numbers of unlawful crossings had dropped.

01:08:38And he did this independently.

01:08:39And that is something that happened

01:08:41during this past reporting period,

01:08:43which was an improvement from the year before.

01:08:45So he suspended what?

01:08:47He suspended all irregular entries.

01:08:52So there's no, what is a regular versus an irregular entry?

01:08:56The border, in an effort to have a safe

01:09:02and humane and protected border,

01:09:04there is a requirement that if you want to present

01:09:07for seeking asylum or for some other reason,

01:09:11you have to utilize the CBP-1 app

01:09:14and use it at a particular entry.

01:09:16And they are funneling in an effort

01:09:18to do really what you're saying

01:09:20so that you have a better idea of who is coming in

01:09:23so that people are not coming in

01:09:24without us knowing who they are.

01:09:26So there were efforts made.

01:09:27But I will also point out that this is also,

01:09:31we get our information about the government efforts,

01:09:34not just from what the government gives to us.

01:09:36We receive information from civil society organizations,

01:09:40NGOs, service providers.

01:09:42I've been to the border.

01:09:43I've seen it.

01:09:44And I'm just gonna interrupt you for a second

01:09:46because we're kind of out of time.

01:09:47I wanna respect Mr. Moylan's time.

01:09:49But let's get real.

01:09:51Because you filled out an app,

01:09:53because you said the child belongs to me,

01:09:56because you're a coyote or you're whomever,

01:09:59and you're maybe or maybe not related to a child,

01:10:02doesn't give me any confidence

01:10:04that we've improved accountability.

01:10:06I think it's all talk.

01:10:07It's all paperwork.

01:10:09It can all be absolutely cheated on.

01:10:11We have no better accountability.

01:10:12We don't know who these children are with.

01:10:13We don't know if they're related to them.

01:10:15I think we've been absolutely supporting a farce

01:10:18when it comes to accountability.

01:10:19It needs to stop now, and I'm gonna end with that.

01:10:20Thank you.

01:10:25Mr. Moylan.

01:10:26Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:10:28Mr. Dreyer, obviously, as my colleagues,

01:10:30and the chairman has been discussing,

01:10:31these transnational criminal organizations,

01:10:33these TCOs present big challenges for us, of course,

01:10:38and most countries just can't adopt to it,

01:10:41and especially in the Indo-Pacific area,

01:10:43which is my greatest concern.

01:10:45These groups are indifferent to national borders,

01:10:49as stated by my colleague here,

01:10:50and in groups like the Yakuza and the Chinese Triad

01:10:53and Southeast Asia criminal and terrorist groups.

01:10:57They just exploit international law to do their operation.

01:11:02They don't care.

01:11:03They really don't care.

01:11:05So, Mr. Dreyer, how can we, as the United States,

01:11:09better leverage these resources that we have

01:11:12and coordinate better with global partners

01:11:16and adversaries, if we have to,

01:11:17within the Indo-Pacific on these common issues?

01:11:23I think that there are a number of things

01:11:25that we can do to improve the situation

01:11:28that you have spoken about.

01:11:30One is through the information

01:11:33in the Trafficking in Persons Report.

01:11:35That report attempts to highlight the challenges

01:11:39and the problems that you have laid out.

01:11:42As one example, knowing that the PRC

01:11:47is behind some of these transnational organizations,

01:11:51we have specifically called out their treatment of Uyghurs

01:11:55and other Tibetans, other minorities.

01:11:58Additionally, we have highlighted in the report

01:12:02the treatment of PRC nationals

01:12:04in the Belt and Road Initiative.

01:12:07And of course, we have highlighted

01:12:09the online scam traffickers,

01:12:11the online scam operation traffickers

01:12:13often have links to the PRC.

01:12:16But some of the things that we're doing to address this

01:12:19and actually try to create an improvement

01:12:22is exactly what you're talking about,

01:12:24which is regional cooperation.

01:12:26One of the things that I did when I was traveling,

01:12:28in my travels, which I heavily focused on the region

01:12:32that was impacted by the online scam operations.

01:12:34Last year, I actually traveled to Thailand

01:12:38where I had the opportunity to meet with Mr. Tower,

01:12:40Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, and Singapore.

01:12:43But in Singapore, I gave the keynote address

01:12:46to the ASEAN governments.

01:12:48All ASEAN governments were represented.

01:12:50And I spoke about the issue of the online scam operations

01:12:54and the need to have greater regional cooperation.

01:12:57This is not something that we're gonna be able

01:12:59to solve in a silo.

01:13:00It is definitely expanding.

01:13:02And we've got to have greater regional cooperation.

01:13:06One additional thing, in addition to speaking to that group,

01:13:08I have brought this issue up in my bilateral meetings

01:13:12and multilateral meetings,

01:13:13including with the Organization for Security and Cooperation

01:13:17and the Organization for American States.

01:13:20But one thing that I, we also listen to experts

01:13:23and we try our best to do what they recommend.

01:13:27Experts like Mr. Tower,

01:13:29and I'm gonna give you just four examples

01:13:30of things that we're doing to specifically address

01:13:33some of the online scam operations

01:13:35in these transnational criminal organizations.

01:13:38One, in Thailand, we're investing by assisting investigators

01:13:43to better utilize technology

01:13:46so that they can actually hold perpetrators accountable,

01:13:49but also to help with regional cooperation.

01:13:53In Laos, we are providing services for victims

01:13:57who are repatriated,

01:13:58who have come back from these online scam operations,

01:14:00and specifically training immigration officials in Laos

01:14:04to try to prevent victims from going

01:14:07and falling prey to these operations.

01:14:10Another regional effort that we are doing

01:14:12is focused on the Southeast Asia region,

01:14:15and it is focused on creating coordination

01:14:18and cooperation between criminal justice professionals

01:14:21so that better identification and referral of victims.

01:14:24And then the last thing,

01:14:25which is something that I was so happy

01:14:27to hear Mr. Tower mention it,

01:14:28we know that if the traffickers

01:14:31are using social media platforms

01:14:33and online digital technology, then so should we.

01:14:36And so we have a program specifically to raise awareness

01:14:39on social media platforms that the traffickers are using

01:14:43to fraudulently recruit,

01:14:45to put correct information out there,

01:14:47to flag fraudulent ads,

01:14:49to try to use the sources

01:14:51that the traffickers are using themselves.

01:14:53Because you're so right, sir,

01:14:55it's gonna take all of us working together on this issue.

01:14:58Appreciate that.

01:14:59And Mr. Tower, she just handed it over to you,

01:15:03but I have a specific question for you, by the way.

01:15:05So more likely than not,

01:15:07we have our national instability directly leads

01:15:11to an increase in domestic and transnational crime.

01:15:15So in relations to Myanmar,

01:15:19Mr. Tower, what does the current situation mean

01:15:23for border nations like China,

01:15:26as well as the Indo-Pacific at large for human trafficking

01:15:32and other illicit smuggling?

01:15:36Thank you for the question.

01:15:38I think it's important to recognize

01:15:40that the February 1st, 2020 military coup

01:15:43perpetrated by the Myanmar army

01:15:45has been a key factor in enabling a lot of this rise

01:15:50in criminal activity that you're seeing in Myanmar,

01:15:52but also really reverberating across the region.

01:15:56You saw where before the coup,

01:15:58the democratically elected government,

01:16:02the NLD was on a trajectory to really crack down

01:16:05on some of this criminal activity.

01:16:06So many of the casino cities,

01:16:09which were the precursors to the scam compounds

01:16:12that now line Myanmar's borders,

01:16:14they were under significant pressure

01:16:16from the democratically elected government.

01:16:19And the NLD government also had called out

01:16:22the role that Chinese criminal groups were playing,

01:16:26trying to advance some of these large scale

01:16:30criminal enclaves as a part

01:16:32of China's Belt and Road Initiative.

01:16:34So they actually pushed back.

01:16:37By August of 2020, you saw where the PRC

01:16:40actually openly disassociated the BRI

01:16:43from some of this criminal activity

01:16:45in response to the NLD's efforts.

01:16:49Following the coup, all of that really was undone.

01:16:54And you've seen where in Myanmar,

01:16:57these casino cities have turned

01:16:58into some of the largest places in the region

01:17:02where you have really criminal actors

01:17:07perpetrating these online scams

01:17:08using forced labor and impunity.

01:17:11The China border was completely lined

01:17:13with these scam syndicates.

01:17:14The Thai border, you've seen where they've continued

01:17:17to grow because of the conditions following the coup

01:17:21where the Myanmar military has deployed

01:17:23the country's police to coerce the Myanmar people.

01:17:29It's really focused all of the country's resources

01:17:31on fighting a war against the population.

01:17:34And so that has played to the advantage

01:17:37of the criminal groups in that country.

01:17:40And in fact, the only way in which you've seen

01:17:43a crackdown on some of this criminal activity

01:17:45is when in the northern part of the country,

01:17:48some of the ethnic armed organizations

01:17:50actually decided to launch a armed operation

01:17:54referred to as Operation 1027.

01:17:57This happened up on the China border in October of last year.

01:18:01These ethnic armed organizations claim they had two goals.

01:18:04One was to eradicate scam centers

01:18:06and the other was to eradicate

01:18:08the Myanmar military dictatorship.

01:18:10And they managed to disrupt roughly 300

01:18:13of these scam centers in northern Myanmar.

01:18:15Unfortunately, most of the kingpins got away

01:18:18and relocated to the Myanmar-Thai border

01:18:21or pivoted to Cambodia or pivoted to Laos.

01:18:24And I think that that illustrates both the challenges

01:18:28of dealing with these issues in Myanmar

01:18:29under the current conditions

01:18:31that have been created by the Myanmar military,

01:18:33as well as the ability of these criminal actors

01:18:35to pivot between different countries.

01:18:37So if you have these sort of bilateral types of crackdowns

01:18:42or if you have a crackdown that really only touches on

01:18:45compounds in one particular part of the region,

01:18:47they're gonna end up relocating in other areas.

01:18:50Appreciate that.

01:18:52Just a final question for Mr. Iyer.

01:18:55So for my district of Guam, our proximity to countries

01:18:58with higher numbers of human trafficking cases

01:19:02represents a hidden threat.

01:19:04And with an increase in fentanyl,

01:19:07which we have a big increase on Guam,

01:19:09and illegal entries to the U.S. territories

01:19:12and bases in the Pacific,

01:19:14these TCOs' influence is just bound to follow.

01:19:19So, Mr. Iyer, what programs are in place to mitigate

01:19:22against Pacific TCO influence

01:19:25before they reach the shores of Guam, USA

01:19:28and the Northern Mariana Islands of the United States?

01:19:34With regard to the PRC influence,

01:19:38I think that we have a number of things in place

01:19:42that we are using where the Department of State

01:19:45participates with the interagency.

01:19:47For example, the Forced Labor Enforcement Task Force.

01:19:50We have the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act.

01:19:53I think if your question is pertaining,

01:19:55and there may be specific resources or support

01:19:59to the Northern Mariana Islands or to Samoa,

01:20:02that would probably come from the Department of Justice

01:20:04or through the Office of Victims of Crime.

01:20:08My organization, as far as our programming money,

01:20:11can only go to countries outside of the U.S.

01:20:15And so we don't have programming in your area,

01:20:18but we do have programming in nearby areas.

01:20:20For example, the Philippines

01:20:22that have been really successful.

01:20:24And we do have some regional programmings

01:20:27that could be of support for you and your compatriots.

01:20:33Perfect.

01:20:34Thank you for that.

01:20:34Thank you, Mr. Tower, as well.

01:20:35Mr. Chairman, that concludes my questions.

01:20:37Thank you very much.

01:20:40So good to see you.

01:20:41Just some final questions.

01:20:43First, starting with China.

01:20:46I currently, and I've done this in the past for years,

01:20:48I chair the Congressional Executive Chinese Commission.

01:20:51It's a bicameral.

01:20:52It includes executive branch individuals.

01:20:55It's a very robust, very focused on getting to the bottom

01:21:00of human rights abuse of all kinds in China.

01:21:03And we've had numerous hearings,

01:21:05and one of them was recently in October.

01:21:09It was a hearing on how forced labor

01:21:12on Chinese fishing vessels

01:21:14and in fish processing facilities

01:21:16taints America's seafood supply chain.

01:21:19Among our witnesses was Ian Urbina,

01:21:22who has done some amazing reporting

01:21:26that was carried by The New Yorker,

01:21:27and I'm sure you know and have read his stories,

01:21:30on China's deep sea fishing fleet

01:21:32and its human trafficking violations.

01:21:34One of the most shocking things our hearing revealed

01:21:37was the role of the U.S. government

01:21:39in subsidizing China's egregious labor rights abuses,

01:21:43primarily through procurement by DOD

01:21:45and also Department of Agriculture of tainted seafood.

01:21:50On U.S. military bases and federal prisons

01:21:53and via the National School Lunch Program,

01:21:55fish tainted by forced labor

01:21:57is being bought with U.S. taxpayer dollars.

01:22:00If you ask these government procurers

01:22:02why they would do that, they point to price.

01:22:05There is an exception to the Buy America purchasing policy

01:22:10if prices are deemed unreasonable,

01:22:12and sure enough, when you are competing with seafood caught

01:22:15and processed by saved labor,

01:22:17you will be underbid every time.

01:22:21So in a sensibly complying with, quote, the law,

01:22:24our DOD, USDA, and others violate three laws

01:22:28that I can think of.

01:22:29Section 301 of the Trade Act,

01:22:31the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act,

01:22:34and Encountering America's Adversaries

01:22:36Through Sanctions Act, not to mention the letter,

01:22:39if not the spirit of the law,

01:22:41of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act.

01:22:43My question for you, and we wrote, I wrote,

01:22:45and I was joined by Senator Merkley, who's my co-chair.

01:22:48I am the chairman, he's the co-chair,

01:22:50and we switch every two years

01:22:52with regards to who is the lead.

01:22:54I'm the lead in this Congress.

01:22:56And we jointly did a letter to all the agencies

01:22:59asking why aren't you stopping this?

01:23:02Why aren't you applying the law?

01:23:03And we've got crickets back,

01:23:04and no response of any meaningful fashion.

01:23:07I mean, I'm shocked by it.

01:23:09And I'm shocked.

01:23:12My question is, what can you do with your office,

01:23:16particularly in these interagency meetings?

01:23:18I mean, our supply chain should be untainted by,

01:23:22and again, Ian did an amazing job,

01:23:25at great risk to his investigators

01:23:27over the course of several years.

01:23:28They had them deployed to these ships any day, night.

01:23:32They could have been thrown overboard doing this reporting,

01:23:35and they found that the abuse was overwhelming to these,

01:23:40and it's all forced, they have no choice.

01:23:42Some of them are Uyghurs,

01:23:44and others are people from North Korea.

01:23:47Will the president consider signing an executive order,

01:23:50for example, banning the purchase of tainted seafood

01:23:54and applying U.S. law?

01:23:57Thank you so much for bringing this up.

01:23:59I find the plight of fishermen,

01:24:01especially those that are on these distant water fishing vessels,

01:24:05to be particularly heartbreaking.

01:24:08They have, as you know better than anybody,

01:24:11they have often no access to fresh drinking water.

01:24:15They are subject to transfers at sea.

01:24:18They spend years and years away from land,

01:24:20and it is rife with opportunities for abuse.

01:24:23I too am a big fan of the Outlaw Ocean Project

01:24:27and have had the opportunity to speak with Ian Urbina

01:24:31and learn from his wise counsel.

01:24:33I'll tell you a few things that the Trafficking in Persons Office

01:24:36is doing to address the forced labour in the fishing industry.

01:24:43One is we do call it out in the Trafficking in Persons Report.

01:24:47There are several countries that we are specifically

01:24:50not only identifying where it is occurring,

01:24:52but also making specific recommendations.

01:24:55For example, sometimes we are specifically recommending

01:24:58that countries do not allow transfers at sea,

01:25:00that make those individuals come back

01:25:02so that they have an opportunity to seek care if they need it.

01:25:05We are also active participants

01:25:07in the Forced Labour Enforcement Task Force

01:25:10and in implementing the Uyghur Forced Labour Prevention Act.

01:25:15As you know, we have put many new entities on that,

01:25:21the UFLPA entity list,

01:25:23and I'm happy to tell you that just earlier, in late June,

01:25:27we included a seafood processing company specifically from China,

01:25:32recognising your excellent point that there is abuse in the system.

01:25:36Many of these individuals are, as you said, Uyghurs.

01:25:39I know that I believe Ian Urbina has also pointed out

01:25:41the abuse of individuals from the DPRK

01:25:44in some of these seafood processing companies as well.

01:25:47So we are utilising the law that Congress gave us.

01:25:51And we have seen that it is working.

01:25:54In fact, the UFLPA is causing countries,

01:25:56they are afraid of being put on that entity list.

01:25:59It's enough that I've even recommended

01:26:01when I'm engaging with multilateral or bilateral folks at the OSCE,

01:26:06I'm saying you better do this because it's working

01:26:09and you don't want to be a dumping ground

01:26:11for things that we're not going to take.

01:26:13We're also, of course, not exclusively utilising the UFLPA.

01:26:17Also, of course, the withhold release orders.

01:26:20Thank you for mentioning the federal acquisition regulations,

01:26:23which are designed to prevent the import of goods made with forced labour.

01:26:31I know that this has come up

01:26:33in some of our forced labour enforcement task forces.

01:26:36There is now training for individuals in order to get certified

01:26:41to be an official under the FAR.

01:26:44You have to have training on a regular basis about trafficking in persons.

01:26:49I also acknowledge that more needs to be done.

01:26:52This is an area, it is difficult to regulate the open seas.

01:26:55We are really working on coming up with a concise list of recommendations

01:27:03to give to countries the way that we have done,

01:27:05like those that are accepting individuals from the Cuban medical missions.

01:27:10We need to do a better job.

01:27:12We're certainly calling it out,

01:27:13but it is a challenge to regulate the open seas.

01:27:16And we are grateful for the tools that Congress has given us

01:27:19and certainly trying to use all that we have.

01:27:22You know, just on the Uyghur Forced Labour Act,

01:27:24I'm one of the four co-authors of it.

01:27:28Totally bipartisan.

01:27:30I've done a number of oversight hearings

01:27:32and we're finding we have flaws in the very bill that we did.

01:27:35One of them is the de minimis amount of $800,

01:27:38where things coming out of Xinjiang, everything's under $800.

01:27:43And it's not, but there's no real effective capability.

01:27:48So we're looking at lowering or getting rid of that very de minimis standard,

01:27:53which again, you learn as you write laws.

01:27:56The other point that I'd like to, with regards to fishing,

01:28:02and one of the heroes recognized by TIP has pointed out

01:28:10in amendments to the Thai fisheries law,

01:28:14STF issued an open letter on June 25th,

01:28:18just a few weeks ago.

01:28:20And it basically talks about, it's, you know,

01:28:25they say how they want to work with the Thai government,

01:28:27but they also want to be very clear because some of the recommendations

01:28:30that are coming forward by the Thai government look like they're going

01:28:33to be counter to protecting workers' rights.

01:28:38Allowing for the return of at-sea transshipment of catch

01:28:41and at-sea crew transfers.

01:28:44Allowing children under the age of 18 to work on these ships.

01:28:49And there's a whole list, I'm sure you're familiar with it,

01:28:52but I'm wondering, you know, what the response might have been

01:28:55from the Thai government on this,

01:28:56especially since one of the TIP stars brought this out

01:29:00and has spoken about it so strongly.

01:29:03I had an opportunity to meet that hero when I was traveling this past,

01:29:08this past September, and she, the woman I met was just truly inspiring.

01:29:13I think that I am tracking with your question.

01:29:15We know that Thailand had actually put into place some of the strict,

01:29:22some more strict laws as the result of sort of outrage

01:29:25and scrutiny that they had.

01:29:27We understand that they are concerned that their laws are stricter

01:29:31and therefore they are, it's impeding their business.

01:29:35And so we understand from our NGO colleagues and CSO colleagues

01:29:39that there is a consideration of rolling back some of the restrictions

01:29:42that they had put into place.

01:29:44I can, ironically, I actually met with the new U.S.,

01:29:48the new ambassador from Thailand to the U.S. and brought

01:29:51up this very issue in our bilateral engagements and just flagged it

01:29:55for him because I know that it is of top of mind

01:29:57for our civil society organizations and certainly something,

01:30:01these types of changes in laws are certainly things that we track

01:30:05and comment on in the Trafficking in Persons Report as well.

01:30:08Where is the administration on the sex worker?

01:30:12You know, when the woman who heads up the United Nations Special Rapporteur

01:30:17on Violence Against Women makes such a strong statement,

01:30:20which I completely agree with, prostitution results in grave

01:30:23and multiple human rights violations such as torture, inhumane

01:30:27and degrading treatment and violates the right of safety, dignity

01:30:30and privacy, the highest standards of health, freedom of movement

01:30:33and family, and she talks about that artificial distinction

01:30:37and I've been talking about this ever

01:30:38since we did the original TVPA back in the 1990s.

01:30:42You know, the line of demarcation between somebody

01:30:44who voluntarily is doing this versus a woman

01:30:47who was forced for the coercion or has not attained the age of 18,

01:30:50that's simple, that's based on age.

01:30:52But the other is often absolutely blurred and she makes that very point

01:30:56in her statement and she says that terms

01:31:00like sex work sanitize the harmful reality of prostitution.

01:31:05What say you?

01:31:07Like you, I am aware that there are some hard felt feelings on both sides

01:31:13of the use of that term as far as the United States

01:31:17and in my office we do not use it.

01:31:19It is not found in our Trafficking in Persons Report.

01:31:21I will point to one of the things that I read when I first had the opportunity

01:31:25to come on was the Advisory Council's annual report from I think 2020

01:31:30where it gave a discussion about terms

01:31:33and which terms survivors preferred to use

01:31:36and they also gave a really thoughtful discussion about why I try to abide

01:31:41by the wise counsel of survivors and so we have done that here.

01:31:45Of course, additionally in the United States we have

01:31:48in place National Security Directive 22 which is still in place

01:31:51which says that the United States government opposes prostitution,

01:31:54that it is not a legitimate form of work and it is inherently harmful

01:31:59and dehumanizing and contributes to trafficking in persons.

01:32:02That's the USG National Security Directive.

01:32:06You and I both know that a lot of these laws are done

01:32:10at the local, at the state level.

01:32:13They're, you know, as far as prostitution laws or terms

01:32:17that they use some of it is done at the state level

01:32:19but that's the position from the US government.

01:32:20Can I just ask you, Belgium's decriminalization,

01:32:23what impact, if any, did that have on their tier rating?

01:32:26The Belgium passed that law outside of the reporting period.

01:32:31That law passed on May the 24th.

01:32:33Our reporting period ended on March 31st and so that law and any impact

01:32:42that that law may have would be assessed in next year's report

01:32:45because it falls within that reporting period.

01:32:48Please, thank you and that's, please assess it very vigorously.

01:32:51I mean, I, when the World Cup was in Germany, I did a series of hearings

01:32:55about prostitution where it is legalized in Germany

01:32:59and frankly I was shocked how, again, that line of demarcation

01:33:02between a voluntary so-called, and I have to say so-called prostitute

01:33:07because there's no such thing in my opinion,

01:33:08certainly not an underage, they don't exist.

01:33:10It is a form of sex trafficking, an egregious form.

01:33:14And the justifications that came

01:33:16from the German government were outrageous in my opinion.

01:33:19And I actually had women, when we were trying to get the TVBA passed,

01:33:23going way back, I had met a number of women

01:33:26in St. Petersburg, Russia with my wife.

01:33:28I brought a resolution up at the OSCEPA, you know, in 1989 this was.

01:33:35So we had all these women who had been trafficked

01:33:37and Miramed had rescued them and helped them, an NGO.

01:33:41And many of them went to Germany and they told their stories

01:33:45and I was, through tears they told their stories.

01:33:49When we were having trouble with our legislation, two of them came here

01:33:54and told their stories before one of my, before my committee.

01:33:57You could have heard a pin drop.

01:33:59So anyone who has this fanciful, foolish view that somehow that is some kind

01:34:05of liberation, it is anything but.

01:34:07It's polar opposite.

01:34:08And those women made it very clear.

01:34:10So please be very vigorous in looking

01:34:11at Belgium during this next reporting period.

01:34:14And Mr. Tara, thank you for your testimony.

01:34:17Sorry that I haven't had a whole lot of questions for you,

01:34:19but you're doing a great job.

01:34:20What is the China's complicity in the scam situation?

01:34:25If you could speak to that.

01:34:27Yeah, so there are several different factors at play here.

01:34:31One is that the infrastructure where all

01:34:34of these scams are taking place inside of.

01:34:37You've seen where over the past two decades many

01:34:41of these transnational criminal groups,

01:34:43they've actually built very close relationships

01:34:46with many elements of the Chinese state.

01:34:48This includes with Chinese state-owned enterprises.

01:34:51And I can cite many examples of this.

01:34:53But there are, just to pick one, in the Myanmar-Thai border,

01:35:00starting from 2017, you had a Chinese crime group that was headed

01:35:06by a wanted criminal from China that was openly associating

01:35:10with China's Belt and Road Initiative.

01:35:12And that gave a $350 million contract to a Chinese state-owned enterprise.

01:35:17And that is, that infrastructure that was built between 2017

01:35:21and to 2019 is now one of the largest scam centers in the region.

01:35:25There are tens of thousands of people inside

01:35:27of this particular scam center.

01:35:29It was similar across the board where many

01:35:31of these criminal actors, they masqueraded under China's BRI.

01:35:36They built close relationships with Chinese state-owned enterprises.

01:35:39In some cases, they even built relationships

01:35:42with Chinese planning bodies and with think tanks

01:35:44under those planning bodies who designed high-level plans for projects

01:35:49that even under China's own laws should be illegal.

01:35:51It's illegal for Chinese companies under Chinese laws to invest

01:35:54in casino cities overseas, for example.

01:35:56And yet, that was happening

01:35:58with Chinese state-owned enterprises providing the infrastructure for it.

01:36:02And with some of these planning bodies in China playing a direct role

01:36:06in enabling all of this criminal activity.

01:36:09So in many ways, what you saw happen is

01:36:11that China created a Frankenstein monster.

01:36:13It empowered many of these criminal actors.

01:36:17It openly collaborated with them.

01:36:19And it enabled them to build this web of influence across the region

01:36:24such that the criminal actors now have been able to begin, you know,

01:36:29even stealing money from across China.

01:36:32In addition to the U.S. now being one of the largest sources,

01:36:35or largest countries targeted by scammers, you had many people

01:36:39from across China also targeted by the same scams.

01:36:42This continues today with many of the criminal kingpins

01:36:46that are behind these various networks operating scam centers

01:36:52in Southeast Asia, but then also openly, you know, putting information

01:36:57about those scam centers onto platforms like TikTok.

01:37:01And here I would highlight the example of Wong Kok Koi,

01:37:04also known as Broken Tooth, who is a convicted triad leader

01:37:09who in 2020 initiated another of the large scam centers in Myanmar.

01:37:16This individual lives in China.

01:37:18He seems to launder his funds back into China.

01:37:21The U.S. government has actually placed sanctions on this individual,

01:37:26and yet he is still openly, you know, he kind of operates as something

01:37:31of a criminal influencer on TikTok, very active on that platform.

01:37:35So this illustrates another way in which the PRC continues

01:37:40to enable some of this activity.

01:37:42And then lastly, you see where the Chinese law enforcement's approach

01:37:46to this, the crackdown to this,

01:37:47it's targeting individual scammers who scam in China.

01:37:52And this creates incentives

01:37:53where the scam syndicates are targeting Chinese nationals less,

01:37:57and they're pivoting to target others around the world,

01:38:01which is harmful for the U.S., it's harmful for the rest of the globe.

01:38:04And this is another, I think, way in which China's approach

01:38:07to this is causing harm to other countries.

01:38:12Ambassador Dyer, just two things, final.

01:38:17Going back for decades and then most recently, I've chaired hearings

01:38:21on people who investigate on behalf of a company in China,

01:38:27their workplace operation to determine whether or not,

01:38:31it may not be ILO standards, but whether or not abuse is occurring,

01:38:35whether or not arrearages are occurring in terms of paying salaries,

01:38:40workplace occupational hazards and the like.

01:38:43And it turns out that much of it is a big fat scam.

01:38:47These people go in, they talk to someone, hey, you over there,

01:38:50you over there, tell me, how's it going?

01:38:52You think they're going to talk, again, with management,

01:38:56which could be very illogical, which probably is, you know,

01:39:00Chinese Communist Party directed.

01:39:03They're not going to be forthcoming because there's no job protection

01:39:05when that investigator walks out.

01:39:08So we did a hearing on it.

01:39:09I did one years ago.

01:39:10We looked at Apple and some of these other companies,

01:39:13and it's one big fat scam.

01:39:14And I just can't believe that's not being discussed more.

01:39:17I would encourage you because that's a form of human trafficking

01:39:20of a very high order.

01:39:22When all of these products are being made, so many, not all,

01:39:25coming here to our shores, and they're being done

01:39:28at slave labor type situations.

01:39:32And these auditors sit there and go, okay, okay.

01:39:37And I've read several auditors' reports, and frankly, I was shocked at how,

01:39:40you know, I asked questions about it,

01:39:42and then we had the hearing on it just recently.

01:39:44So please take a good strong look at that,

01:39:46especially with regards to the PRC.

01:39:48Any new sanctions coming towards China?

01:39:51Because it's sanctions time now.

01:39:53You got the report.

01:39:55I'm glad you asked about sanctions.

01:39:57As a former prosecutor, I love a powerful accountability tool,

01:40:00and we know that this is a powerful tool

01:40:02to promote both human rights and accountability.

01:40:05I will tell you that we are looking to support its use where appropriate.

01:40:09We even have now on staff in the Trafficking in Persons Office,

01:40:13a senior sanctions policy advisor who is looking at various authorities

01:40:20to target individuals and entities.

01:40:23Currently, that individual has identified

01:40:27and is examining several priority sectors

01:40:31to potentially use this authorization.

01:40:33I will look forward to giving you more information.

01:40:35Who is that?

01:40:37It's a senior.

01:40:38No, but who is it?

01:40:39Oh, his name is Patrick Reed.

01:40:42I'd love to meet with him, if that's possible.

01:40:43Yes, he is so smart.

01:40:45You would love to meet with him.

01:40:46He is so smart.

01:40:47We are really working aggressively on this,

01:40:50have identified several priority sectors,

01:40:54and would be happy to give you further information

01:40:56in a different setting at a later time.

01:41:00Thank you.

01:41:01And the trafficking report, for decades,

01:41:05it has been printed in a very presentable fashion.

01:41:09I give it out to every delegation I meet with.

01:41:11I encourage my colleagues to do the same.

01:41:14As Special Representative for the OSC Parliamentary Assembly,

01:41:17I bring hundreds of copies when I go and hand them out.

01:41:21And it not just singles out the country

01:41:23of the participant you're talking to.

01:41:25You're from Germany, you're in here too, so are we.

01:41:28But it gives them an idea of just the scope

01:41:30and the breadth of the work that's being done here,

01:41:33that there is an accountability factor.

01:41:36And when it's just online,

01:41:38or in a much more truncated version like this one,

01:41:41I mean, the other one is four times thicker

01:41:45with lots of very good narrative and information.

01:41:49I encourage you to please go back to the other format.

01:41:52You know, cost may be something,

01:41:54please tell us exactly what it is,

01:41:55we'll try to get the appropriators to put in a line item

01:41:58if it's necessary.

01:41:59But it is a very useful tool, you know.

01:42:02People don't necessarily go online.

01:42:04I do, for this, because it's not sitting in a book

01:42:07the way it used to be.

01:42:08But it's a great source.

01:42:09And again, when somebody's talking to somebody who says,

01:42:11look, even when Thailand was very upset with Myanmar,

01:42:17not Myanmar, with Burma.

01:42:20No, not Burma, they'll come.

01:42:22Because on the fishing industry,

01:42:26they were getting a very, Thailand, a bad mark,

01:42:30and the other wasn't.

01:42:31They were getting red-carded by the European Union

01:42:33for all of this.

01:42:35But it was for one reason, geopolitical again.

01:42:38It was because of the trade partnership agreement.

01:42:43And you can't be on the list if you,

01:42:46Malaysia is the one I'm talking about.

01:42:48And it was just very discouraging.

01:42:50But what did they do?

01:42:51They looked through the book.

01:42:52Yeah, they could do it online too.

01:42:54But they're going back and forth.

01:42:56Please, go back to printing it.

01:43:01Do I hear a needless?

01:43:02I hate making decisions that you don't like, sir.

01:43:05As I think that, as part of the department's

01:43:09modernization efforts, as well as just the trend

01:43:12across government that has been going on since 2011,

01:43:16there was an executive order that told us,

01:43:18print less and presume it's all gonna be online.

01:43:22As you said, we experimented last year with,

01:43:25the last year that was fully printed was 2022,

01:43:28that had the one that you liked,

01:43:29with all of the country narratives.

01:43:31We experimented last year with just printing

01:43:33the introduction, and we still suffered

01:43:37with significant delays in the printing.

01:43:39And it is a partially the cost.

01:43:42It's a new printer.

01:43:43But it is, the length and the delays

01:43:46have made it super frustrating for us.

01:43:49And right now we stand out as an outlier.

01:43:51We are the only congressionally mandated report

01:43:55that the State Department still has done in a print form.

01:43:59And in truth, I know that you use it,

01:44:04truly use it and like it.

01:44:05And I think a lot of people certainly do,

01:44:08but the demand just isn't there for printed reports

01:44:12as it used to be.

01:44:13People don't want to have a heavy book

01:44:15that they have to take on the plane

01:44:16when it's available online.

01:44:17And we are trying to make the online version

01:44:20more accessible.

01:44:22It's searchable.

01:44:23We'll have a PDF up there so you can search Cuban export

01:44:27or whatever it is that you're interested in.

01:44:29And so we are trying to, while taking away something

01:44:32that I know that you love, hoping to replace it

01:44:34with something that you will come to love.

01:44:37And I appreciate it.

01:44:38PDF isn't available now, is it?

01:44:40It will be if it's not already.

01:44:42It takes a little longer to get it formatted.

01:44:44And so if it's not up yet, it will be.

01:44:48Thank you, sir.

01:44:49Anything else you want to add before we conclude the hearing?

01:44:54Oh, sanctions, new sanctions.

01:44:56I shared with you the information

01:44:59about the sanctions that I have.

01:45:00Oh, so sorry.

01:45:02I didn't look at you and talk about it.

01:45:04Do you think we should do new sanctions vis-a-vis China?

01:45:09Jesse with the Treasury Department.

01:45:11I think one thing that I've observed

01:45:13is that if you go back to December of last year,

01:45:17there was an announcement made

01:45:20to have some coordinated sanctions

01:45:23that involved the US, the UK, and Canada,

01:45:30targeting some of the perpetrators

01:45:32that were behind the forced labor scamming

01:45:35across Southeast Asia.

01:45:38The UK actually did place sanctions

01:45:40on some of the representatives

01:45:44of some of these Chinese origin crime groups,

01:45:46as well as representatives

01:45:48of the Myanmar Army's border guard force,

01:45:50as well as some of the other elites across Southeast Asia,

01:45:54including in Cambodia,

01:45:55that are responsible for the forced labor scam syndicates.

01:45:59I think you've not yet seen sanctions put out

01:46:04in quite the same way by the US,

01:46:06although I would note that there were

01:46:07some of the same individuals that are involved

01:46:10that are targeted by earlier sanctions for other crimes.

01:46:12So for example, in Laos,

01:46:15Zhaowei has been sanctioned by the US,

01:46:17or I mentioned earlier the sanctions on Broken Tooth,

01:46:20who's another key Chinese criminal involved in this.

01:46:22But there are many additional targets,

01:46:24I think, that are there that,

01:46:26for example, now the UK has targeted,

01:46:28including some of these individuals deeply involved

01:46:31in Myanmar and in Cambodia and other parts of the region,

01:46:35as well as many of the Chinese criminals

01:46:38and other enablers behind these crimes.

01:46:40So it would seem that sanctions could be one tool

01:46:43whereby which additional pressure could be placed

01:46:46on some of those involved in perpetrating the crimes,

01:46:49and which could also potentially have done

01:46:52in coordination with allies and partners

01:46:55could really, I think,

01:46:56put more pressure on this broader criminal industry

01:47:00that is increasingly causing so much harm around the globe.

01:47:04Okay, well, again, thank you both,

01:47:07and the hearing is adjourned.

Chris Smith Leads House Foreign Affairs Cmte Hearing On 2024 Annual Trafficking In Persons Report

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