During a House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee hearing, Rep. Doug LaMalfa (R-CA) questioned witnesses about the California Air Resources Board's new locomotive regulations.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Mr. Chairman, thank you for this hearing.
00:05You know, Ms. Arreaz, when you talk about early on in your conversation that within
00:13one mile of the tracks is 90% of the emissions, but can't we, don't we have to acknowledge
00:19when towns were first built and settled, they were either along the coast with ports, they
00:26were along rivers, and when, with the advent of railroads across the country, towns located
00:31right next to the railroad, because in any case, they want major sources of transportation
00:37to move freight, people, etc.
00:39And so, kind of implied is what you're saying is that maybe all towns need to be at least
00:43a mile away from railroad tracks to not have emissions.
00:48And then you have to acknowledge too that sometimes the rails were there, sometimes
00:53the airport was there first, that property is cheaper next to those, it's not as desirable,
00:59and so they move homes into those areas that only because they're cheap and people with
01:04lower incomes can afford to move into them.
01:06So, whose fault is it really that people live near these areas, developers or people that
01:12choose to buy homes in these areas?
01:13We have to look at that on the other side.
01:15So, Ms. Arias, when CARB fully acknowledges that people are going to go out of business,
01:25especially short-line railroads, which are an important integral part of what the long
01:29lines can't do and what we don't, you know, what Mr. Moulton was even talking about, do
01:33we want to shift this to trucks?
01:36How can you, in good faith, develop a policy that you fully acknowledge is going to put
01:43an important sector out of business and, at the end of the day, drive up emissions?
01:50How does that work?
01:51Thank you for the question, sir.
01:53As it relates to the analysis that we have in our report, that report does not take into
01:59account any sort of the incentive programs or other opportunities we might be able to
02:03work with the class three railroads.
02:06As mentioned earlier, there has been a significant application pool this year to help the class
02:12threes get to compliant engines.
02:15In addition, we intend to support them and work with them to continue to seek those fundings
02:21as we're moving forward.
02:22Okay.
02:23We're also specifically talking to each of the class lines individually and trying to
02:27determine what is the cheapest and easiest way for them to move through the regulation
02:33as well.
02:34Okay, let me stop you there because maybe there is no way for them to move through the
02:36regulation.
02:37There are small outfits.
02:38They don't make a ton of money in order to change this technology.
02:42Mr. Olvera or Mr. Nobre as well, when they talk about availability of tier four engines,
02:49which my stats here show me that if we're at tier four engines, if you just took a breath
02:56for a minute at CARB and let everybody come up to tier four, you've achieved 85 to 90%
03:02cleaner versus older technology.
03:04That sounds like a win to me, but you're already jumping ahead to five or six or all electric.
03:09And Ms. Arias, you're saying like, well, we can take this diesel engine out of a tier
03:13three or two or whatever and we'll put this newer one in.
03:16You don't say that we're going to put a new diesel engine in.
03:19You're talking about putting an all electric thing that doesn't even exist yet.
03:23How does that work?
03:24Because I want Mr. Nobre and Mr. Olvera to talk about that for a moment.
03:28How is the tier four availability of those engines coming along here?
03:33Can we even replace everything with tier four at this moment?
03:36Ms. Arias said that it was new technology as of about 2015.
03:40That's only a few years ago.
03:42We expect all these things have been changed to tier four by now.
03:45Tier four engines are limited in availability and with locomotives or railroads requiring
03:52their locomotives to all upgrade in an abrupt timeframe, that limited inventory is going
03:57to be taken over very quickly.
04:00So we're jumping past tier four with this mandate, right?
04:04We haven't even filled out tier four availability.
04:07They want five or six or whatever number you want to call it, right?
04:09Yeah.
04:10There's very few locomotives in the short line industry that are at a tier four level.
04:15My railroad was one of the pioneers jumping to tier three engines back in starting in
04:202008.
04:21At the time, that was the best available or highest tier available, but tier four is just
04:27getting started.
04:28Well, it's a lot like the trucks in California that say, hey, get up to this newest tier
04:31from 2011 or newer and you'll be fine for a long time.
04:34Then wham, they change the regs and those trucks are going to have to be phased out
04:38by 2030.
04:39Same with people in good faith trying to do their local ... Mr. Nobert, touch on that
04:43too, please.
04:44With tier four availability and the massive 85, 90% cleaner, if we were just all at tier
04:52four.
04:53Well, as I indicated before, when tier fours were first required, it took a long time to
05:00iron out the operational issues with them.
05:03Only one manufacturer has ever actually been able to produce working tier four locomotives.
05:09Currently?
05:10Currently.
05:11Currently.
05:12When they first came out, then again, there were many problems with them and they kept
05:14breaking down.
05:15For a railroad, at least at BNSF where I used to work, they have to operate in Arizona and
05:22120 degrees in the summer in Montana and minus 50 in the winter on a 24 by seven basis.
05:30If there's a failure, that becomes a significant issue in a network industry.
05:35Reliability is a very important factor, I think.
05:37Thank you.
05:38Here we are jumping past a tier that isn't even ready yet with new regs with non-diesel
05:43engines.
05:44Right?
05:45I don't think that there are.
05:46I mean, again, I'm not a locomotive expert, but I don't think that there are feasible
05:50locomotives that ... I got to reclaim my time, sir.
05:53Thank you.
05:54I'm sorry about that.
05:55Yes.
05:56The gentleman yields.
05:57Thank you so very much.