• last year
"Is there a difference between the term action in aesthetically preferable actions and the term behavior in universally preferable behaviors? I think of actions and behaviors as being synonyms, so I would think you would pick one term and use it in both cases, but you seem to always be careful to use action in APA and behavior in UPB, so it makes me think the terms action and behavior are not synonyms for you. is there a difference between actions and behaviors in your thinking?

"To put the question differently would there be anything incorrect or different if I referred to aesthetically preferable actions as aesthetically preferable behaviors? Are the terms actions and behaviors interchangeable there or do they not mean the same thing for you? Cause if they mean the same thing I would think it would go be simpler to use one term instead of 2, so to refer to UPB and APB, but you refer to UPB and APA."


"What are the origins of the urge to fail, to waste potential, to drag your feet and do the bare minimum? Hate? Like, I hate you so much I will waste myself rather than blossom in your presence."


"What you said about feeling other people's feelings resonates with me. I know some people have baited me into feeling outraged or passionate about some topics in their place. While we can usually see it when it happens in front of us, how do you differentiate your true feelings from those implanted in your head by others when you're alone?"


"can you please do a full length explanation of what exactly virtue is? I have listened to everything you have put out on the subject but still have a hard time understanding the concept. From what I have gathered listening to your shows, virtue is a relative concept. Is there an objective definition of virtue that isn’t dependent on a particular situation?"


"I have a friend that I mainly meet because of service exchange (doing major car repairs to me for less than a workshops fee), we do get along well on a personal level, but I feel it's unethical of me as the friendship seem more utilitarian than he himself considers it to be. I feel like I'm using people, at times. How do I get past this?"

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Category

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Transcript
00:00Alright, good morning everybody. Hope you're doing well. This is Phil Molyneux from Free Domain.
00:05Great questions from the great crew at freedomain.locals.com.
00:09You can also join a great crew at free... at subscribestar.com slash free domain.
00:15And you can support the show at freedomain.com slash donate. Thank you.
00:19Is there a difference between the term action in aesthetically preferable actions
00:23and the term behavior in universally preferable behaviors?
00:27I think of actions and behaviors as being synonyms.
00:30And I would think you would pick one term and use it in both cases,
00:33but you always seem to be careful to use action in APA and behavior in UPB,
00:37universally preferable behavior.
00:39So, it makes me think that the terms action and behavior are not synonyms for you.
00:44Is there a difference between actions and behaviors in your thinking?
00:47Oh, it's a great... a great point.
00:49And I will tell you that actions are morally neutral, behaviors generally are habits.
00:57Behaviors are things that we learn over time, we tend to repeat over time,
01:02they tend to get easier over time.
01:04So, they tend to be habits, whereas actions tend to be just things that happen,
01:09things that we do that we don't commit in general to repeating.
01:14The word behave has fairly strong moral connotations.
01:19Oh, behave, that's just embarrassing.
01:22But behave well, behave yourself, behave well.
01:25So, behaviors have a moral context,
01:27usually in that behaviors are positive moral habits.
01:32Behave yourself, his behavior was outrageous, and so on.
01:37It tends to have a moral connotation.
01:38Actions tend to be neutral.
01:40I scratched my elbow.
01:42Well, that's an action.
01:43But it's not a habit, it's not something you prefer,
01:45it's not something that you would criticize someone for at any moral level.
01:49So, actions tend to be empty things that we do,
01:52whereas behaviors tend to be repeat behaviors...
01:59Sorry, repeat actions, it's not about a tautology.
02:02Behaviors tend to be repeat actions that become ingrained within us.
02:08A good behavior, he got time off for good behavior.
02:11We don't say he got time off his prison sentence for good actions.
02:16So, behaviors tend to be actions that we repeat for good or for ill.
02:23He's really bad behavior, it's terrible behavior.
02:26We don't say, well, I guess you could say he acted badly,
02:29but action tends to be more specific and less morally concentrated,
02:34and action generally refers to something that is passing,
02:38that is simply a physical movement,
02:40whereas behaviors tend to be habits that we accumulate for good or for ill.
02:46So, that's my general approach to it, and I wanted a different...
02:50I wanted a different word,
02:52that's why it's aesthetically preferable actions
02:55rather than universally preferable behaviors.
02:57I wanted a different word for things that we do that we can't enforce
03:02and things that we do that we can enforce.
03:06So, if my friend and I keep meeting and he keeps showing up late,
03:11well, it's preferable to be on time, but I can't shoot him
03:14because he's not imposing his will on me through violence.
03:19Whereas if someone tries to attack me, he says he's going to kill me,
03:23then I can use violence and self-defense
03:25because he is using violence to impose his will upon me.
03:29So, I needed a different word for that which can be coercively enforced,
03:34such as persons and property, right?
03:37The protection of persons and property can be coercively enforced.
03:40You can use violence to protect your person and your property
03:44versus actions that you cannot enforce,
03:48although we would prefer them, right?
03:51Although we would prefer them.
03:53So, if somebody is continually late or says inappropriate things
03:57or, I don't know, scratches their butt in public and so on,
04:01we would consider that aesthetically negative,
04:03but we can't use force to enforce better behavior
04:07because they're not using force to impose their behavior upon us.
04:10And I find in general, in philosophy, I really, really try not to multi-use words
04:15because if I use the word behavior for good and evil
04:21and I also use the word behavior for appropriate, inappropriate,
04:26nicer, not nicer, diplomatic, rude, and so on,
04:29then I think that the word is doing too much work.
04:33I try not to make the words do too much work
04:36and try to keep them specific to what it is that I'm talking about.
04:40So, that's a great point and I appreciate you bringing it up.
04:43The book had some thought behind it.
04:45All right.
04:46What are the origins of the urge to fail, to waste potential,
04:50to drag your feet, and to do the bare minimum?
04:52Hate?
04:53Like, I hate you so much I will waste myself
04:57rather than blossom in your presence.
04:59Well, we can turn to our good, smoky Russian voice, Ayn Rand,
05:04for an example of this.
05:05So, of course, I'm sure you've noticed,
05:07it's not particularly a stunning observation,
05:10that Ayn Rand went on strike
05:13after she wrote the great book about geniuses going on strike.
05:17And one of the reasons she went on strike
05:19was the amount of vitriol and hatred that she received
05:22for the book Atlas Shrugged was quite something.
05:26It was quite something.
05:28And, of course, Christian religious conservatives
05:31have significant issue with an outright atheist
05:35talking about virtues.
05:37And the book was tricky
05:39because it did not solve the problem of good and evil.
05:43Ayn Rand did not solve the problem of morality.
05:46So, Christians responded with the injunction
05:50that we don't give up God and morality
05:55for the sake of improved GDP.
05:58Again, I can't speak for the Christians,
06:00but I would imagine that they viewed a book like Atlas Shrugged
06:04as something like the devil's offer to Jesus
06:07if he gave up virtue, he could inherit the world, right?
06:11And God's Gulch is like Jesus in the desert, right?
06:16Going into the desert.
06:18And then why do they return?
06:20They return to rebuild, not to bring salvation,
06:23not to bring virtue.
06:25And because the Christians deep down understood
06:27that Ayn Rand had not solved the problem of virtue,
06:29but was instead offering them a universe
06:33with only aesthetic prompts towards virtue,
06:36like, well, all the heroes are tall and slender and noble
06:39and get the great checks, right?
06:41That virtue is a reward for a crushing kind of
06:46literally soulless independence that the Ayn Rand heroes have.
06:51I mean, in a very real way,
06:54what was Ayn Rand offering the world?
06:57Well, you'll get hot kinky sex and a lot of money, right?
07:03That you will get the hot girls
07:07and you will be a true captain of industry if you follow me.
07:13But she could not prove ethics,
07:16and so she was selling virtue in a way
07:19with hot, frankly weird sex,
07:23and which, you know, I don't find it hot at all.
07:26It's weird, but for a lot of people, I guess it is.
07:28There's a certainly female approach to sex
07:30where coercion seems to be, well, 50 shades of gray, right?
07:33We can all understand that.
07:35So what was Ayn Rand offering?
07:38Well, you get to be totally cool,
07:40you get to make a lot of money because you're a captain of industry,
07:42you're a Hank Reardon or whatever,
07:44and you get weird women to have bizarre sex with.
07:51It's a little bit demonic, right?
07:53It's a little bit on the...
07:55When you sell virtue based on aesthetics,
07:58then it is a fairly devilish temptation.
08:01Again, I'm talking about it in general from the Christian view.
08:05So, I mean, the woman labored for 13 years, was it, on Atlas Shrugged,
08:11and again, it is a magnificent novel
08:13and it's a great book and she is a total stone genius,
08:17but from the Christian perspective,
08:19she's saying, get rid of God
08:21and we'll replace it with semi-coercive sex
08:25and a whole lot of money.
08:27And that is not a good offer.
08:29I mean, it's not a good offer in general.
08:31It's not a good offer from the Christian perspective
08:34because Ayn Rand was saying,
08:36well, you don't really need community,
08:38you don't really need shared faith,
08:40you don't need God,
08:42but what you get is a really efficient market system
08:46that produces a lot of wealth
08:48and you get a weird sex
08:51and no kids, right?
08:53There are no children in Ayn Rand's novels
08:56and no parents.
08:58Well, I mean, there's the weird single mother of Peter Keating
09:02and, you know, one or two other examples.
09:05So, Ayn Rand poured heart and soul
09:07into what she thought was a great novel
09:10of virtue and freedom and so on,
09:12and, you know, economically, hard to argue,
09:14and the metaphysics, hard to argue,
09:17epistemology, hard to argue,
09:19and, I mean, the fact that she remained a statist
09:23was easy to argue,
09:25but most fundamentally,
09:27the issue was that she did not prove ethics,
09:30she did not prove virtue.
09:32So she was leading people away from Christian ethics
09:35and replacing them with matters of the flesh,
09:38temptations of the flesh,
09:40avarice, greed, lust, sex, and so on.
09:43And so she got a fairly instinctive storm
09:47of rejection and hostility,
09:51and then, after writing the great novel
09:54of geniuses going on strike,
09:56she then went on strike for the rest of her life.
09:581957 until her death in the early 80s,
10:01she barely wrote anything,
10:02didn't do a whole lot,
10:04I mean, had affairs and pursued her own,
10:07well, I mean, to some degree, hedonism and so on,
10:10but it was quite tragic.
10:14So why?
10:16Why do people go on strike?
10:19Well, if we just look at it economically,
10:22which is not a bad place to start,
10:24people go on strike because their suffering is unrecognized.
10:28So if you look at workers who are, in their view,
10:31they're not paid a living wage,
10:32they have terrible conditions,
10:33you know, they're the coal miners in the 1920s and so on.
10:37George Orwell wrote a great book called
10:39Down and Out in Paris and London
10:40about all of this with the plongeurs
10:42and all the people who worked these terrible jobs.
10:45And their suffering is unacknowledged.
10:49And when your suffering is unacknowledged,
10:52your impulse is to go on strike.
10:56And you go on strike so that your value can be ascertained.
11:00So if, let's say, you are doing chores as a teenager around the home,
11:05and let's say you do a fair amount of chores,
11:07nobody ever thanks you, all they do is criticize you,
11:10then people are not seeing the value that you're providing.
11:14And one of the ways to get people to see
11:17the value that you're providing is to go on strike.
11:22Oh, if you don't think I'm doing that much,
11:24see what your life is like when I do nothing.
11:29And then when you go on strike, people will then see your value.
11:33So you think of a scenario where the parents are inattentive
11:38and there's an elder sibling who has to take care of
11:41a handful of younger siblings and the sort of lazy parents
11:46who put her in this position.
11:48The lazy parents are not thankful.
11:51They're not appreciative. All they do is criticize her.
11:54So then her urge and impulse, because she's unvalued,
11:57her urge and impulse will be to go on strike
12:01so that the parents see how much work she's doing
12:04that is invisible to them.
12:06And then they will say, oh my gosh, we didn't realize
12:09how important it is, what you're doing,
12:13and by gosh, do we ever thank you and we're sorry
12:16that we were taking you for granted, right?
12:18Because they see how much work she's really been doing.
12:23So if you're unvalued, then you go on strike
12:27so that people can see the value that you're providing.
12:32That's one of the brilliant things about Atmosphere Act
12:34is the people at the top go on strike.
12:37And there's an ancient story, Lysistrata or something like that,
12:43where the women want an end to the Peloponnesian War
12:46or something like that, and so they go on sexual strike.
12:50They will not have sex with their husbands
12:53until the war is stopped, right?
12:55So they're on strike.
12:56So the women are saying, well, look at the value
12:58we provide in giving sex, and if we don't give sex,
13:01you'll change your behavior.
13:02That's sort of a form of...
13:04So yeah, and so Atlas Shrugged, the wealthy and the productive
13:08are maligned and attacked and scorned and put down
13:11and ridiculed and stolen from, and then they decide
13:14to go on strike, and then society says, right,
13:17this is the Pareto Principle, right, that if the people who...
13:20It's like there are probably a couple of thousand people
13:25across the whole world that keep the economy running,
13:27and those people are constantly attacked and maligned,
13:29and they're going to get impatient and annoyed,
13:31and at some point they might want to withdraw their services,
13:35and it certainly does happen, for sure.
13:37People retire.
13:38Retirement, to some degree, is annoyance at lack of value, right?
13:44So if you are a worker, and you feel that you should be paid more,
13:49and the boss won't give you more money,
13:51then you go on strike, and then if the boss can't replace you,
13:55except for someone with higher wages, right?
13:57So let's say you make $25 an hour, and you think
14:00you should make $35 an hour, then you go on strike.
14:03Now the boss then, you know, in a free market society,
14:06the boss will try to replace you, but if nobody will work for him
14:09for less than $35 an hour, then he makes a big apology
14:13and gives you your $35 an hour, because you're already trained,
14:16and you know the business, and you can just go back in
14:18and start working, right?
14:20So if your work is taken for granted, then you withdraw your services
14:26so that people see the difference, and then can evaluate
14:29your contributions more vividly.
14:32Now, of course, why would you, in a family situation,
14:37why would you feel unappreciated?
14:39Well, because you're being exploited.
14:41So if you have the lazy parents who demand that the elder daughter
14:44take care of the siblings, you know, for, I don't know,
14:4860 hours a week or whatever, then they're exploiting her.
14:51It's not her job, right? She's not the parent,
14:53and they're exploiting her.
14:55There could be some emergency where, you know, both parents are ill,
15:00and the daughter, you know, they beg the daughter to step up,
15:02they show her great appreciation and thanks,
15:04and she's not going to feel exploited.
15:06She's going to feel like she wants to contribute,
15:08and she's being appreciated.
15:10So the urge to go on strike arises from a deep feeling of being exploited.
15:21A deep feeling of being exploited.
15:24And it's the hope that someone sees your value
15:27when you refuse to provide.
15:30Now, this could have some value.
15:35I mean, let's just talk personally, right?
15:38So if your family's exploiting you, right?
15:40You do all this stuff, you take care of people,
15:42maybe you pay some bills, and, you know,
15:44you're being exploited in that there's a significant amount of work
15:50that your parents demand that you provide,
15:55and they are not appreciative, and in fact, they're just critical.
15:59So they criticize what you do, they criticize you when you don't do it,
16:02but they never give you any appreciation for what you do.
16:05So an example would be in a sort of husband-wife relationship
16:08that the wife works very hard to get the fresh ingredients to make great meals
16:14and so on, and the husband only complains.
16:18And that shows no appreciation for the food,
16:20but only complains when there's a little bit too much salt
16:22or it's not quite warm enough.
16:24Then she's going to feel, of course, unappreciated,
16:27and she is going to feel the urge to go on strike
16:30because he's taking her for granted,
16:32and he's exploiting her, really, in my view.
16:35Now, the same thing can happen on his side if she, you know,
16:40spends the money and never says thank you for going to work,
16:44never says thank you for bringing in an income,
16:46never says thank you for, you know, going on that business trip
16:49when you have a really bad headache and, like, I really appreciate that, right?
16:54So if he's feeling taken for granted,
16:57then he may have the urge to go on strike as well.
17:01So in a family situation, if you are exploited,
17:07which means your services are taken for granted,
17:11your contributions are taken for granted,
17:13and you're either ignored or criticized for everything that you do,
17:17well then, yeah, you're being exploited.
17:19So then you're going to feel the urge to go on strike.
17:21Now, that can work in a family situation, although it's pretty volatile.
17:24It's pretty volatile because the reason why you would be taken for granted
17:28is people lack empathy.
17:30And if you try to, in a sense, force people to show you empathy,
17:36well, one of the reasons they don't have empathy
17:38is that they themselves were forced as children,
17:41so more force may, in a sense, coerce a temporary compliance.
17:45Fine, you're good at what you do. Yeah, is that what you want?
17:48Okay, thank you, thank you for contributing to this family, right?
17:51Or they may even pretend to be more genuine,
17:53but nothing about it is particularly real,
17:56and you're going to face blowback, right?
17:58Because if people exploit you and then you go on strike,
18:01you can force some concessions out of them,
18:03but you'll pay later, right?
18:05They'll just find some other way to undermine you.
18:08But it can happen. It can happen.
18:12There's a positive outcome. Economically, it can happen.
18:15Let's say that, and I was directly involved in this in the business world,
18:19about a couple of dozen of my employees when I was working for a company
18:24came to me and said,
18:25we're underpaid, and here's the market average,
18:27and we're getting better job offers, and so on.
18:30And they said, listen, we like working for you,
18:32we like this job, but we don't like being underpaid.
18:36And so, yeah, I commissioned an independent salary survey
18:39and made the case and calculated the cost of replacing people
18:43based upon the size of the code base and the need for training,
18:46and so on, and I made the case,
18:48and I got people over a million dollars a year extra in wages.
18:55Over time. Was it a million dollars?
18:56Sorry, it was a million dollars over a couple of years.
18:58But yeah, it was, you know, I helped the people who were less well-off,
19:03and so this is why social is kind of annoying.
19:05It's like, just go do that kind of stuff, and you'll really help people,
19:08rather than just nagging and complaining, right?
19:12So, people go on strike because they feel exploited,
19:18and they want their suffering to be seen.
19:21So, that can happen, right?
19:23If you think you're worth $35 an hour, and you go on strike,
19:26and your boss can't replace you for anything less than $35 an hour,
19:30then he's going to have to pay you more, right?
19:32So, it can work in an economic sense.
19:36It can even work, you know, I mean, if someone's really impatient,
19:40like, say, the husband is really distracted,
19:42and the wife finally says, you know what,
19:44all you do is complain about my cooking,
19:46so I'm not going to cook anymore.
19:48What's he going to say?
19:49Oh, sorry, you know what, that was rude.
19:51Like, you know, if he's got half a brain in his head, he'll apologize,
19:54and, oh, that was rude, and I'm sorry, and whatever he's going to say.
19:58So, it can work to sort of startle people out of a sort of selfishness that,
20:02you know, in relationships, sometimes it creeps in,
20:05and you kind of need that reminder, and that's fine.
20:07But here's the problem, though, is that if you have this feeling
20:12with regards to your parents or your teachers,
20:14you're just mad at them, and they never appreciated you,
20:18and all they did was criticize you, and nobody praised you, right?
20:21So then, if you decide to, in a sense, go on strike as an adult,
20:27so that people will see your suffering, well, what's going to happen?
20:33Well, you are going to wreck your life,
20:37and no one's going to see your suffering,
20:41and you're just going to toast yourself.
20:45And when you get to be an adult, honestly, like,
20:48and I hate to say it, but it is one of these things about adulthood,
20:52your friends and family care about your suffering,
20:55but the world and society as a whole doesn't.
20:59And if you want to understand this, just think about
21:03some random person you meet in the street,
21:05do you care about their suffering? Nope.
21:07No, because they're not within your circle of concern.
21:10The circle of concern is the people that you're willing to make sacrifices for
21:14in order to help them, right?
21:16If your neighbor, you know, three doors down has a baby,
21:21it seems unlikely to me that you're going to get up three or four times a night
21:24to feed the baby.
21:26Oh, you know, you just pump your breast milk, I'll sleep on the couch,
21:29I'll, you know, like, that would be a little weird, right?
21:33Go and take care of somebody else's baby, just some neighbor, right?
21:36On the other hand, if you yourself have a baby,
21:39then you are going to get up a couple of times a night
21:42to take care of the baby.
21:43That's your circle of care, right?
21:45So, the people who are on strike are people who have an open wound
21:49of prior exploitation, and they're hoping that by going on strike,
21:52someone's going to notice and care, but the reality is
21:55nobody notices, nobody cares, and you're just wrecking yourself.
22:00Going on strike to express a grievance
22:05doesn't matter if society doesn't care, right?
22:10So, you have to find a way to deal with your grievances
22:16without acting them out, emotional grievances in particular, right?
22:20So, if your parents and teachers or whatever, they took you for granted,
22:23they exploited you, then you've got to deal with that
22:26so that you can liberate your energies and enthusiasms for life.
22:30Because if you go on strike so that your parents understand
22:32that they were bad parents, you're just allowing that bad parenting
22:35to continue to sabotage your adult life,
22:37and you're wrecking everything for the sake of people who won't change.
22:40So, don't do that.
22:42Deal with the pain of having been exploited and ignored.
22:45Recognize that people who didn't see your suffering as a child
22:47will never see your suffering as an adult,
22:49and that society as a whole doesn't care,
22:51just as you don't care that much about other people as a whole,
22:55and find some way to get beautiful things going in your life.
23:00What you said about feeling other people's feelings
23:02as someone else resonates with me.
23:04I know some people have baited me into feeling outraged
23:08or passionate about some topics in their place,
23:10while we can usually see it when it happens in front of us.
23:13How do you differentiate your true feelings from those
23:15implanted in your head by others when you're alone?
23:17Well, just ask yourself, OK, does this serve me?
23:21So, if you have, and I'm not going to talk about myself here,
23:24I think I've dealt with most of this stuff,
23:26but does it serve me, or does it serve somebody else?
23:30How does this thought or feeling or idea in my head,
23:33how does it help me?
23:35So, your immune system has to do this on a daily basis,
23:38because you're constantly getting exposed to bacteria,
23:41and if you're a nail-biter, then you actually get exposed
23:44to a little bit more bacteria.
23:45It actually trains your immune system in a positive way.
23:48So, your body constantly has to say, OK,
23:51is this organism within me positive or negative?
23:56Because there are lots of organisms within you that aren't you
23:58that are hugely positive, like the gut bacteria, right,
24:01that help you digest your food and so on, right?
24:04So, your immune system constantly has to evaluate the presence
24:08of organisms and say, good, bad, positive, negative.
24:13If it's a cancer, you want your immune system to kill it
24:15before it grows.
24:16You want it to attack infectious bacteria,
24:19but not the bacteria in your gut.
24:20It's like it's constantly having to differentiate,
24:22is this good for me or not?
24:24Is this a positive or a negative for me?
24:27And so, when it comes to ideas and thoughts in your head,
24:31you have to go through that evaluation.
24:33OK, let's say that your parents abused you and said
24:38that you were terrible and bad and trash and selfish
24:41and whatever, right?
24:42OK, so those voices are going to come up in your head,
24:44and you have to say, OK, is this beneficial to me
24:47or is this an infection?
24:49Does this serve me or not, right?
24:53And if people are serving their own interests
24:55by attacking and insulting you, then, you know,
24:58it's not personal.
24:59You know, one of the great mistakes of being abused as a child
25:05is to take it personally, like it's got something to do with you.
25:08It doesn't.
25:10Child abuse doesn't have anything to do with you.
25:13People who abuse children, you know, are cruel and sadistic,
25:16and any and every victim is interchangeable.
25:20And if you have child abusers who treat one child better
25:24or who treat other children better,
25:26they're just doing that to further hurt you
25:29and make you blame yourself more for these people
25:31who can obviously be nice, but they discount to you
25:34because you're so terrible.
25:35But it's not personal.
25:37It's not personal.
25:39And there are not a lot, let's just put it this way,
25:44let's be as nice as possible.
25:46The world is not precisely overflowing with people
25:49who objectively and without ego evaluate others, right?
25:54Most people evaluate others with regards to cost-benefit.
25:59So your parents, if they were cruel and abusive,
26:03they evaluated you according to their own needs and preferences.
26:06Will I feel better if I indulge myself and yell at or kick or hit
26:11or abuse this child?
26:13They're not evaluating you.
26:15They're evaluating how you serve their needs, right?
26:21If you are having a big bowl of soup, right?
26:25And you open the drawer, right?
26:29You open the drawer, the cutlery drawer,
26:31and there are teaspoons and tablespoons.
26:33What are you going to choose?
26:35You're going to choose a tablespoon
26:36because the tablespoon better serves your needs of eating soup.
26:41You're not evaluating or judging the tablespoons
26:46in sort of morality or overall fitness or, you know,
26:49these teaspoons are trash, they can't hold any soup at all, right?
26:53Whereas if you want to stir your tea and you don't want it to slop,
26:57you're going to choose a teaspoon or, you know, something like that, right?
27:00If you're baking and it says one tablespoon,
27:02you'll measure out a tablespoon.
27:04If it says one teaspoon, you'll measure out a teaspoon
27:06using either a teaspoon, tablespoon,
27:08or some container that approximates that shape.
27:10It's just not personal.
27:12You're not evaluating or judging the teaspoon.
27:15You're just using that which serves your needs.
27:18You're just using that which serves your needs.
27:20It's not personal.
27:21I really can't, I cannot empathize this too much.
27:24It's not personal.
27:26You know, when my mother said, I hate you,
27:28she's not evaluating me based upon some objective standard
27:32that I'm found wanting.
27:33I mean, for heaven's sakes, I was like five years old or whatever, right?
27:36So it's not personal.
27:37She just felt better in the moment by discharging her hatred.
27:42Her hatred was not of me.
27:44It was not objective.
27:45It was not a judgment.
27:47She would have just said it to anyone she had power over, right?
27:51I mean, there was a boy who was kidnapped
27:56by an older male sexual predator
28:01and he was held hostage by this sexual predator for many years.
28:07And at one point, the sexual predator said something like,
28:10hey, you know, sorry kid, it's nothing personal.
28:12You just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
28:15It's not personal.
28:17Predation is not personal.
28:18The lion does not eat a particular zebra
28:21because he just finds that particular zebra morally objectionable
28:26and that particular zebra is selfish and mean
28:28and doesn't take care of her own foal
28:30and grazes too much grass and doesn't share.
28:33And so he's going to act as the hammer of Thor
28:35and bloody moral vengeance upon this evil zebra.
28:39Like, it's just, oh, okay, that zebra is the closest
28:42and that's the one I can catch.
28:44It's not personal.
28:45Predation is not personal.
28:47I mean, just think about this.
28:48You order a hamburger.
28:50Do you bite into it saying, oh, that cow, that cow was a real jerk.
28:55That cow was so terrible.
28:57I hate that cow.
28:58I'm enjoying eating this cow because this is the punishment.
29:00It's like, come on, right?
29:02That's not how things work, right?
29:04If there's a mosquito on your arm and you slap the mosquito,
29:08you're not hating the mosquito as an individual.
29:11You're hating the effects of the mosquitoes
29:13or you're having a problem with the effects the mosquito is going to have on you, right?
29:17It's not personal.
29:18Predation is not personal.
29:20Abuse is not personal.
29:21Now, I mean, don't get me wrong.
29:23I understand why people think that way
29:25because one of the ways that abuse is enacted
29:28is to make you feel like it's personal, right?
29:32I mean, the poor who use the power of the state to get money from the wealthy,
29:36they don't hate the wealthy.
29:38They don't evaluate the moral character of the wealthy
29:41and have these great moral judgments
29:44and, you know, they're just exploiters.
29:46None of that's the case.
29:48They just want the money.
29:50A guy who robs you in an alley, right,
29:53he doesn't hate you as a person,
29:55he hasn't evaluated you from some moral standpoint
30:00and he's enacting some Robin Hood vengeance.
30:03It's like, no, he just wants your money
30:05because he's got a drug habit or something.
30:07Like, you're just a means to an end.
30:09And if you're just a means to an end
30:11and you take things personally,
30:13you are not correctly evaluating the situation.
30:16I absolutely beg and promise you
30:18to take on this, this truth.
30:21To take on this truth.
30:24You know, if you were to run for office
30:27on the platform of reducing the welfare state or whatever, right,
30:30you would be attacked and you'd be called all these terrible names
30:34and you're a baby killer and you just want people to die in the streets
30:37and you're cold and heartless and a fascist and whatever, right?
30:40Okay, I mean, but it's not personal.
30:42They haven't evaluated you.
30:44You're just standing between them and the money they want.
30:48Right? They want the money for the welfare state
30:51and if you interfere with that, they will attack you.
30:53But it's not personal. It's not personal.
30:56And if you think it's personal, then,
31:00I mean, I sort of hate to say, but that's a little selfish, right?
31:04Thinking it's about you when it's not,
31:06you know, like if you have an issue with your mother
31:08and then she makes it all about her,
31:10that's kind of annoying, right? Seems a little narcissistic.
31:13And so, one of the ways that this kind of narcissism,
31:17just using the term from an amateur context, of course,
31:19but one of the ways in which this narcissism transmits
31:23is your parents say you're bad
31:27because saying you're bad serves their own immediate needs
31:30of avoidance of pain or pursuit of pleasure.
31:33And then you, because they're being selfish, right?
31:35They're being narcissistic.
31:36They're hurting you for the sake of pleasing themselves
31:40and the hurt of you doesn't really go into the calculation.
31:44The only thing that goes into the calculation
31:46is the pleasing of themselves,
31:47like the primitive predator mentality.
31:50The lion does not think of how painful it is for the zebra
31:54when the lion chews on the ass of the zebra.
31:57Now, can you imagine the zebra in his mind saying,
32:00I can't believe, why does that lion hate me so much?
32:02Why has that lion got it in for me?
32:04Why does that lion judge me so harshly?
32:06Why does that lion think I'm so bad?
32:08It's like, no, lion's just hungry
32:10and it's just doing what lions do.
32:12And if you're abused, your abusers are just assholes
32:16who are doing what assholes do,
32:18which is to hurt other people
32:19for the sake of their own immediate gratification.
32:22No empathy, just cruelty.
32:23It's not about you.
32:25You're just a spoon
32:26and they have a big bowl of bloody soup.
32:29They're just using you like you would use an implement.
32:31It's not personal.
32:33And that's when you free yourself from the abuse
32:37is when you say, right,
32:39this is the most fundamental liberating thing about all of this,
32:42is you say, could have been anyone.
32:45Could have been anyone.
32:47Could have been anyone, right?
32:50There is no child,
32:52and it's like, it's really important,
32:53really, really important.
32:55There is no child to whom my mother
32:59would have been a good mother.
33:02Do you follow?
33:04Therefore, it's not personal.
33:08There is no child to whom my mother
33:12would have been a good mother.
33:15I need to just kind of net this into your bone marrow.
33:17If you look at your own thing,
33:18if you were abused,
33:19my sympathies, of course, right?
33:21If you were abused as a child,
33:23you simply have to look at the other children
33:25in your parent's orbit.
33:28Were they good,
33:30really great and wonderful,
33:32good, thoughtful, kind,
33:33and sympathetic to other children?
33:36Well, of course not.
33:38And even if they appeared to be that way,
33:40the fact that they were cruel to you
33:41while being kind to others is part of the abuse.
33:44And then you can look at their relationships at work,
33:46you can look at their relationships in romance,
33:49you can look at their friendships,
33:51you can look at the arc of their life.
33:53You know, my mother went, in my view,
33:55from being cruel to her children,
33:56to being cruel to her friends,
33:57to being cruel to boyfriends,
33:58to being cruel to her doctors,
34:01to being cruel, like just,
34:02it's not personal.
34:05Because one of the ways that parents harm you
34:07if they're abusive,
34:08is they say,
34:10I'd love you if you were better.
34:12That's part of the cruelty, right?
34:14I'd love you if you were better,
34:15if you just listened,
34:16if you didn't talk back,
34:17if you just did your chores,
34:18if you just did the right thing,
34:19if you just obeyed,
34:21if you just showed me respect,
34:22if you just did your duty,
34:25if you're just a better kid, right?
34:27Then I'd love you, right?
34:28And of course that's nonsense.
34:29It's nonsense.
34:30It is through being loved.
34:32Being loved is the easiest way to become good.
34:34Being loved is the easiest way to become good.
34:37And so saying,
34:38I withhold love until you're better,
34:41is like saying to a starving athlete,
34:44well, you'll get food when you win the race.
34:47But of course the athlete can't win the race without food,
34:51because he's starving.
34:52He has no energy.
34:53Well, you're starving,
34:54but when you win that gold medal,
34:56you'll get some food.
34:57It's like, no,
34:58the best way to get the gold medal
35:00is to have adequate nutrition, right?
35:03Good, healthy food.
35:04So,
35:06and it's really like realizing that you're just
35:10a spoon in a drawer.
35:12Right?
35:13You're just a spoon in a drawer.
35:15That is not personal.
35:16It was never about judging you.
35:18It was just about saying,
35:20whatever could be said
35:22in order to transfer pain
35:25from the abuser to the victim
35:26for the temporary relief of the abuser,
35:29that's all about.
35:30You're just a vehicle, right?
35:32If you need to throw up
35:34and you just grab a bowl
35:35and vomit into the bowl,
35:36do you hate the bowl?
35:37Are you vomiting in the bowl
35:38as punishment for the bowl's immorality
35:40and lack of respect and selfish?
35:42It's like, no,
35:43it's just that's the closest bowl
35:44and I need to throw up.
35:45So, when you're around,
35:46you're the closest powerless victim
35:48and your parents,
35:49if they're abusive,
35:50need to discharge their aggression,
35:52need to discharge their helplessness,
35:53need to exercise control over someone
35:55so they don't feel as much out of control
35:58in the moment, right?
35:59It's not personal.
36:01You're a bowl.
36:02You're a spoon.
36:03You're a zebra.
36:04It's not personal.
36:05It has no substance or landing
36:08or effect or stickiness
36:10to you and your personality
36:12in any way, shape or form whatsoever
36:15at all.
36:16I suppose that's clear enough.
36:17But yeah, meditate on that.
36:18It's not about me.
36:19It was not about me.
36:20It's not about me.
36:22My, quote, friends when I was younger
36:24who were pretty hostile
36:26to me getting into philosophy
36:27and never really wanted to hear about it
36:29and would in fact oppose me talking about it,
36:31was that personal?
36:32Nope.
36:33Now, you know,
36:34they would sometimes apply negative labels to me
36:36for my interest in philosophy,
36:38but it was because philosophy
36:40would have harmed their interests.
36:42It's not personal to me.
36:43They didn't think I was doing anything wrong.
36:45They didn't judge me.
36:47See, narcissistic people can't judge you.
36:50Selfish people cannot judge you.
36:53Selfish people cannot judge you.
36:57The only thing that selfish and narcissistic people can do
37:00is judge your utility to them in the moment
37:04which is independent of you as a person.
37:08Selfish people can only judge your utility to them
37:11in the moment
37:12which has nothing to do with you as a person.
37:15If you are feeling helpless
37:17and you're losing your temper,
37:19you can smack your kids and yell at them
37:21because you can't
37:24because they're your kids
37:26and you have power and control over them.
37:28So you can exercise that power and control
37:30because they are in the category called children
37:33or dependents or helpless,
37:35not because of you as an individual.
37:39It's not personal.
37:40Now, I know we try to create this bond
37:43with abusive parents and think it's personal
37:46and that there's some connection
37:47and they've evaluated us and they care about us.
37:49It's like, yeah, I'm sorry.
37:50That's just not the case.
37:52It's not the case.
37:53And this is why, you know,
37:54if you have abusive parents,
37:55you had abusive parents,
37:56go talk to them
37:57and see what it's like
37:58when you're an independent adult
37:59and you come to them with a need.
38:00I need you to tell the truth.
38:01I need to talk about this.
38:02This is what I want.
38:03This is what I need.
38:04Come to them with your own needs
38:06that go against their immediate preferences
38:08and see what happens.
38:09And that way you can very quickly find out
38:11it has nothing to do with you.
38:14Hi, Steph, says somebody else.
38:15Can you please do a full-length explanation
38:17as to what exactly virtue is?
38:18I've listened to everything you've put out
38:20on the subject
38:21but still have a hard time understanding the concept.
38:23From what I've gathered,
38:24listening to shows,
38:25virtue is a relative concept.
38:27Is there an objective definition of virtue
38:29that isn't dependent on a particular situation?
38:32So, virtue is the consistent following
38:35of the moral rules you claim.
38:37Virtue is the consistent following
38:39of the moral rules you claim.
38:42Well, sorry, let me put it this way.
38:44Let me sort of reframe that.
38:46My apologies.
38:47Integrity is following the moral rules
38:50that you claim.
38:51Virtue is when those moral rules are UPB.
38:55So, honor is loyalty
38:57and honor among thieves, right?
38:58I mean, the honor among the
39:00Cosa Nostra, right?
39:01The Mafia, whatever, right?
39:02So, there can be honor among thieves
39:03and, you know, some people can
39:05go to jail for a long time
39:06to not rat out their criminal companions
39:08and so on.
39:09They can be honor.
39:10They can be integrity to a thief's code
39:12or a criminal's code
39:13or something like that.
39:14So, integrity is when you
39:16are consistent with the moral virtues you claim
39:19or the values that you claim
39:21and virtue is when
39:23those values are UPB, right?
39:26So, I'll sort of give you an example, right?
39:29So, with my mother,
39:32she would hit me when I was younger
39:33and then when I fought back
39:35when I got to be in my early teens
39:37and got bigger,
39:38I was a fairly smallish kid
39:40and then I got above average
39:42in height and weight
39:43as I got into my teens.
39:44So, violence was perfectly acceptable
39:47when my mother was bigger than me
39:50and stronger than me
39:51and could enact violence against me
39:53but then violence, you see,
39:55was absolutely unacceptable
39:56when I got bigger and stronger than her, right?
39:59And I never used violence against her.
40:03Like, I never beat her up
40:04or anything like that
40:05but I would use violence
40:06to prevent her from...
40:07I would use strength,
40:08size and strength
40:09to prevent her from hitting me
40:10which was appalling, right?
40:11Just appalling.
40:12So, that's hypocrisy, right?
40:15That's hypocrisy.
40:17So, parents who say
40:20we should not use violence
40:21to get her away
40:23and then approve a system
40:25which is significantly coercive
40:27or hit their children
40:28or whatever it is, right?
40:30That is hypocrisy, right?
40:32So, virtue is when you're...
40:35when you act in accordance
40:36with rational morality.
40:38That's virtue.
40:39I mean, you can have integrity as well
40:41if you say, as a Christian,
40:44I must love my enemies
40:45and then you gossip about
40:47and attempt to destroy
40:48someone who you disagree with
40:50then that's hypocrisy.
40:52And so, the first step is integrity.
40:55The second step is virtue.
40:57So, if somebody has a moral standard, right?
41:01Then you should say
41:03live by that moral standard.
41:05If they can't live by that moral standard
41:06then they'll be interested
41:07in exploring other morals.
41:09But if somebody makes a claim...
41:10Like, somebody makes a claim
41:11oh, I value free speech, right?
41:13And they want to cancel someone
41:15and they want laws put in place
41:17to prevent people from speaking
41:18and they want violence to be used
41:20against people who say things
41:21they disagree with
41:22then that's a corrupt person
41:24because they're making a claim
41:25to a virtue
41:26and then they are living in violation
41:29and advocating for complete violations
41:31of that virtue.
41:32So, virtue is integrity
41:35to rational morality.
41:37All right.
41:38Let's see here.
41:39Let's do one more.
41:41I have a friend that I mainly meet
41:42because of service exchange
41:44doing major car repairs to me
41:46for less than a workshop fee.
41:48We do get along well on a personal level
41:49but I feel it's unethical of me
41:51as the friendship seems more utilitarian
41:53than he himself considers it to be.
41:55I feel like I'm using people at times.
41:56How do I get past this?
41:58Now, I can't quite follow this question.
42:02I'm sorry if I'm missing something.
42:05So, you're saying
42:07with all primeval Adam and Eve innocence
42:10you're saying,
42:11Hey, Steph, my friend
42:14does a lot more favors for me
42:16than I do for him.
42:18How can this possibly be solved?
42:20Right? You can't.
42:21I mean, are you really asking me this question?
42:23I'm a little baffled.
42:25I mean, you understand the problem, right?
42:29My friend does 10 favors for me a year
42:32and I do no favors for him.
42:35What could possibly be the solution?
42:38So, when I put it like that,
42:40I mean, the answer, I assume, is
42:42pretty obvious, which is
42:44start doing some favors for your friends.
42:47Right?
42:48You know, my friend
42:50keeps lending me money when I'm in need.
42:52I never lend him any money when he's in need
42:55and I want to equalize the situation.
42:57What could the answer, Steph, possibly be?
43:01That's hard to take seriously.
43:03I mean, maybe you're trolling
43:04but it seems hard to take seriously
43:05is the real question.
43:06If you feel like you're exploiting
43:08someone's friendship and friendliness
43:10and goodwill towards you,
43:12then the simple answer is
43:14A. Stop exploiting him
43:15or B. Start returning the favors.
43:17Right?
43:18So, if for whatever reason
43:20you can't provide any value to this guy,
43:22right,
43:23then you have to stop accepting favors from him
43:26because it's kind of exploitive, right?
43:29And, you know, guaranteed,
43:30this mechanic or whatever he is
43:32comes from a social
43:34or probably a familial environment
43:36where he's being exploited
43:37and he doesn't think he's worth very much
43:39and so he does all these favors
43:40for people in the desperate hope
43:41that they'll like him
43:42and you're just playing right along with that.
43:44You're stepping into the shoes
43:45of exploited parents or girlfriends
43:47or whoever, right,
43:48who's exploited him
43:49and you're pillaging, in a sense,
43:51his prior exploitation
43:53because he's used to
43:55being a one-sided provider of value
43:57in a, quote, relationship.
43:58So, you're stepping into the shoes
44:00left by exploitive people in his past
44:02and continuing to exploit him
44:04and you're saying
44:05you have no idea how to solve this.
44:07Give him some value back.
44:09There must be something
44:10that you can do
44:11that he would appreciate, right?
44:13Maybe he's a big fan of some sports team.
44:16Buy him some tickets
44:17for the game.
44:19You know,
44:20I mean, maybe he,
44:21you know, you can say
44:22let's go for a coffee.
44:23You can ask him about his life.
44:24Maybe he's kind of lonely.
44:25Maybe he needs some,
44:26someone to show some interest, right?
44:29Now, if you say,
44:30well, I don't want to do any of that.
44:31I mean, the guy saved me $1,000
44:33in car repair bills.
44:35Why would I bother
44:36giving some of that money back?
44:38Because then it's not even a value to me.
44:39Okay, then it's just material
44:40and then you're just kind of exploiting him.
44:43And I'm not saying that this is, like,
44:45deeply immoral or evil
44:47or anything like that.
44:48It's all voluntary.
44:49It's no falsehood or coercion involved.
44:51But it's kind of like
44:53if you meet a woman
44:55who is so desperate for affection
44:56and has so little self-esteem
44:58that she'll just have sex with you
45:00on the first date
45:01and you go ahead with that,
45:02you're not having sex,
45:05in a sense, with her vagina
45:06but with her wound, right?
45:08Is there coercion involved?
45:09Nope.
45:10But there almost certainly
45:11was prior coercion involved
45:13in terms of how she was abused as a child.
45:16It could be sexually.
45:17It could be in any other ways.
45:18But you are, you know,
45:21you're pressing on a wound
45:22made by others
45:23in order to get what you want.
45:25And I generally think
45:26that's not a good plan
45:28because it's, you know,
45:29it's not going to make you feel
45:30all kinds of great about yourself, right?
45:32If I give somebody
45:35a firm handshake,
45:36that's not immoral.
45:37But if I know
45:38that their fingers are broken
45:40and I give them a firm handshake,
45:42suddenly that becomes bad, right?
45:44The exact same action.
45:46If there's no wound, it's fine.
45:48If there is a wound,
45:49it's pretty bad
45:50because I'm now causing
45:51that person massive pain.
45:54And I see them, right?
45:55I see they've got splints
45:56on their hands
45:57and I reach, I grab their hand,
45:58give them a firm handshake
45:59and they scream out in agony
46:01because I'm hurting
46:02their broken fingers.
46:04It's the same action, right?
46:06Sleeping with a woman,
46:07you know, you're committed,
46:08you're in love,
46:09hopefully you're married
46:10or whatever,
46:11it's a great thing.
46:12Sleeping with a woman
46:13who's been sexually exploited
46:16or abused as a child
46:17and is desperate
46:18for any kind of affection
46:19and doesn't know
46:20how to approach the world
46:22without offering up sex,
46:23it's the same action,
46:25but it's a totally different
46:26set of ethics.
46:27And again, you know,
46:28these are extreme examples
46:29and this is just a guy
46:30who gives you some breaks
46:31on your car bills,
46:34but in general,
46:36you have to look at where,
46:38like why is this,
46:39if this is a serious question,
46:40why is this a serious question, right?
46:42Why is this a question
46:43that needs a lot of examination?
46:45Because when I pointed out
46:46that if someone's doing favors for you
46:47and you feel like
46:48you're exploiting that person,
46:49you either stop taking the favors
46:51or you give them favors back.
46:52And even if you stop
46:53giving the favors,
46:54you should give at least
46:55one favor back, right?
46:57Or a couple of favors back
46:58because you've already
46:59taken some favors,
47:00so you're in some kind
47:01of obligation,
47:02some situation of obligation, right?
47:04So, yeah,
47:06listen to these crows,
47:07I don't know if you can hear them,
47:08but yeah,
47:09so just stop exploiting people
47:11and stop working the wounds
47:14in people left by others
47:16and work to try and heal
47:17those wounds if you can
47:18or at least don't make them worse
47:20if you don't want to or can't.
47:22I hope that helps.
47:23Freedomain.com slash donate.
47:24Great questions.
47:25I do appreciate the brain tickles
47:27and it's a great way to start the day.
47:29So have yourself a wonderful,
47:31wonderful day.
47:32I will talk to you soon.
47:33Freedomain.com slash donate
47:34to help out the show.
47:35Lots of love from up here.
47:36I'll talk to you soon.
47:37Bye.