'Fallout' Actor Walton Goggins + Prosthetic Department Head Jake Garber | The Process
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00:00Hello everyone, I'm Walton Goggins, and we're here to discuss the process on deadline for
00:14the show Fallout on Amazon.
00:17So lovely to be here.
00:18I can't...
00:19Hey, buddy.
00:20Hi, Jake.
00:21How are you, man?
00:22Hey, pal.
00:23How you doing?
00:24I'm good.
00:25I'm good.
00:26Tell me, where are you right now?
00:27I'm in Atlanta right now.
00:28We're at least, I think, on the same coast at least.
00:29Well, no.
00:30I actually just landed in Los Angeles, so we're not on the same coast, but we will be
00:34soon enough, man.
00:35Dude.
00:36Yeah.
00:37So, hell.
00:38We're in the same time.
00:39Thank you.
00:40Thank you so much for being here, buddy.
00:41Absolutely.
00:42Yeah.
00:43It's a lovely opportunity to kind of discuss what you and I kind of went through as artists
00:46in this relationship that we had over the course of kind of making this show.
00:52You know, I would like to start with a simple question.
00:57How did you get involved in this process?
01:00What was the first phone call that you received?
01:03The first call was from Jim Scotch DePaul.
01:05I was in London.
01:06He's a very good friend of ours, a mutual friend of ours.
01:09With Quentin, obviously, and all that.
01:11But he had contacted me when I was in London.
01:14And this was before they had even...
01:16I don't know if they've reached out to you yet or not.
01:19They want to check my availability, I think, because Jimmy knew I was a little bit of a
01:23speed freak as far as going quick and all that.
01:26And wanted to check my availability coming up.
01:29And as luck would have it, I was.
01:33And he said that they were talking about having Walton as the ghoul.
01:38And matter of fact, initially, I said I wasn't really interested because they had said something
01:44about a ghoul.
01:45And I had done enough of that stuff on Walking Dead for eight years that I was trying to
01:49cleanse the palate and not kind of repeat myself.
01:52And Jimmy had said, good, that's what we were hoping you were going to say.
01:56So and then they explained to me sort of the, you know, the back story of the ghoul and
02:00all that stuff.
02:01And I was like, OK, all right, yeah, OK.
02:04And Walton's in.
02:05I'm in.
02:06So that was that was kind of how it got started.
02:08And I think I got a call a couple of months later that said they had signed you and got
02:11you going.
02:12And that's that's kind of the beginning of it.
02:15Let me ask you something.
02:16Do you remember the first time that you that you that you read the script and was it did
02:23that?
02:24How did that kind of influence your approach to to this experience?
02:29The scripts didn't go out till quite later.
02:32And I have to say that my involvement kind of hit a gap at some point because I wanted
02:39to have Vincent Van Dyke involved with this.
02:41I was going to ask you about that because Vincent is the person who designed these pieces
02:47and a friend of yours, an old friend of yours and a friend of Jonah's, I'm sure one of the
02:54right now.
02:55Yeah, yeah.
02:56They are now for sure.
02:57And one of the best in the business and and these kind of initial conversations that you
03:02guys had away from us.
03:04And I'll tell you about the conversations that I had with Jonah and Geneva and Graham
03:08and a few minutes and then subsequently with you.
03:11But what was the initial kind of conversation that you had with with Vincent?
03:15We had we had talked.
03:16I kind of told him what they were looking for, sort of a radioactive, you know, thing.
03:20It wasn't going to be anything that looked like, you know, any anything zombie oriented
03:24or anything like that.
03:26And I had not even had any contact with Jonah at that point yet.
03:29So Jimmy had introduced Vincent and Jonah and they started collaborating at that point.
03:36So a lot of the discussions about that design I was away from.
03:41And once they kind of got it narrowed down, I would start to get feedback from Vincent
03:45saying this is what we're thinking about doing.
03:48We had our discussions about what would be the good, you know, the best process or the
03:52best way to work, work forward and all that stuff.
03:56And then the first time that I met Jonah was the day that he came by Vincent's shop when
04:01we did I believe it was the second test, I think.
04:05So that was the first time I'd actually met him.
04:09But yeah, there'd been a lot of conversations via emails and all that sort of stuff about
04:12where this was going.
04:14But yeah, there wasn't any sort of hiccups or anything.
04:16It was actually quite, quite smooth when you really get down to it was like, OK, there's
04:21a point where you stand down, you wait for some feedback, you get it.
04:25On we go.
04:26Yeah.
04:27You know, I'll never forget the first conversation that I had with Zoom call or whatever with
04:33Jonah and Geneva and Graham, and we started discussing this character, the ghoul.
04:39I may be wrong about this.
04:40Maybe the picture came afterwards, but I believe on that phone call that somebody brought up
04:45a picture of the ghoul.
04:48And and I and I getting prepared for this experience right before I got on the phone
04:54call.
04:55I didn't know anything about the game fallout except through my son.
04:58Yeah.
04:59No, right.
05:00My son's a gamer.
05:01You know, I'm not a gamer.
05:03So I went online and I googled fallout.
05:06And the first article that I came to was this character.
05:09Let's just call him John.
05:12And he was a heroic kind of good looking character in the game and the game's description, whatever
05:18it was.
05:19And he was a ball dweller making his way up.
05:22This is long before we kind of talked about the ghoul.
05:24And I thought, oh, man, I get to play a hero.
05:28Maybe it's John.
05:29Maybe that's who they want me for.
05:31And and it was only like three minutes into the conversation with those guys that I realized,
05:36OK, it's not going to be the ball dweller.
05:39It's going to be something radically different.
05:41Yeah.
05:42And then they brought up the concept of the ghoul and they showed me a picture.
05:46And I I was it was it was exciting, for sure.
05:50But it was also arresting visually.
05:53And then I just wanted to take a nap because I thought, oh, Jake and I are going to these
05:58are going to be long days.
06:00Oh, man, this is going to be this is a lot.
06:02But oh, my word.
06:04And I but and it was.
06:07The first image that that we looked at was so very different than than what we wound
06:13up with, of course, these were just kind of rough sketches right out of the gate.
06:17It's like, yeah, this is a template.
06:20This is kind of how we how we started this where the conversation begins.
06:24Well, well, well, this is an Amish production of the Count of Monte Cristo, just a weird
06:35circle jerk I've ever been invited to.
06:46Welcome back, I'm Huncho, now you don't even know us.
06:51No, I do not.
06:55Oh.
07:08I should shoot him.
07:12You shut the fuck up.
07:14We are.
07:15We got a proposition for a bounty came down a huge one.
07:21enough to be a last call for me and whoever's with me.
07:27Yeah, now somebody may have run
07:32from the Enclave.
07:34Oh, what makes you think I'd give a good goddamn about that?
07:37It ain't where they's running from,
07:39I figured you'd be interested in.
07:41It's where they's running to.
07:44Dead Witch, Moldavian in California.
07:50That's where you from, ain't it?
07:53Originally, I mean.
07:54♪ I don't need a gun... ♪
08:00Now, what the fuck would you know about where I'm from?
08:06Well, that don't sound like gratitude, do it, boys.
08:11How about we put you right back in that hole
08:13so Don Pedro can have his fun with you
08:15for the next 30 years?
08:17♪
08:26Well, I'll tell you what, boys.
08:29Whenever somebody says they're doing one last job,
08:33that usually means their heart's not in it.
08:35It probably never was.
08:40But for me, well,
08:43I do this shit for the love of the game.
08:48♪
08:53Oh!
08:54Oh!
08:56Oh, no!
08:57♪
09:03♪
09:09♪
09:15♪♪
09:25You're right, friend, about one thing.
09:30This right here was your last job.
09:34Our paycheck wasn't quite what you expected,
09:37but, well, you know what they say.
09:40Us cowpokes.
09:42♪♪
09:49We take it as it comes.
09:52♪♪
10:02So then we had these conversations
10:05kind of back and forth, and this went on for months,
10:09really, before we even sat in a chair for the first time.
10:13And I've said this in other interviews,
10:15but the thing that was most important for, I think,
10:19all of us was to not have the audience
10:23kind of repulsed by this experience,
10:26to not have them look away from the experience,
10:28but rather to lean into the roadmap of his face
10:34as almost a journey or a journey, really,
10:39of a person who has been walking an irradiated landscape,
10:43a post-apocalyptic kind of landscape, for 200 years.
10:46And so that's what we were aiming for right out of the gate.
10:51And I think about the e-mail that we got recently from Jonah
10:56that said, mission accomplished,
10:58where there seemed to be a rather high number of females
11:03rather attracted to our ghoulish buddy.
11:07And that was just...
11:08It takes putting me in ghoul makeup for that to happen.
11:10Yeah, and all of a sudden, you know, just say, yeah, no.
11:13And that was definitely a thing because,
11:16and I think that was probably my initial reluctance to take it
11:19was because I didn't want to just, you know, kind of,
11:22you know, I've done that thing,
11:23and I'm proud of the work that I did,
11:25but there's a point where you just kind of, well,
11:27I didn't want to kind of go into the hole of blood covered
11:30you know, look, but it was a unique look.
11:33And yeah, matter of fact...
11:35Did you see it on a, like, when...
11:39The other thing that Vincent and you,
11:42what we all kind of took into consideration,
11:44but I say, you know, the Vincent, the man who built the pieces.
11:47Yes.
11:48It was very important, I think, for all of us,
11:50for it to still be me underneath this, right?
11:53Like not to kind of disappear.
11:55And to capture kind of the subtleties
11:59or nuances of like an emotional journey, if you will,
12:05not to have to exaggerate one's face to communicate.
12:09I don't even know, I don't know how to do that anyway.
12:11I don't think about things like that.
12:13And so that's what I was most surprised with
12:16when we put it on for the first time.
12:18But my question for you is, did you look at it?
12:22Did he have it assembled on a dummy?
12:25The first...
12:26The very first time on a head, like all the different pieces?
12:28And how many pieces are there?
12:29And why did you decide to cut it up the way that you cut it up?
12:33The first stuff that I see was the conceptual art that was done.
12:37And, you know, like you said,
12:39you saw some different versions of it there.
12:41I think there, you know, there's discussions about,
12:43we like this part of this one, this part of that one,
12:45and just sort of do the assembly.
12:47Then Vincent got into the...
12:49Doing the blocking it out in clay.
12:51Because again, to look at something two-dimensionally
12:53is completely different than three-dimensional.
12:55So you can kind of move around it
12:56and sort of get the gist of the whole thing.
12:59As far as the breakdown of the makeup,
13:02it's just, I don't know, experience,
13:04but Dick Smith had started doing this stuff
13:06when he was doing Little Big Man.
13:08Because the practicality of trying to put a very, you know,
13:12a large piece over an area like that,
13:15you just, you don't have the exactness
13:17that you can with these individual pieces.
13:19As a matter of fact, I think it can even go quicker
13:21by doing it this way rather than fighting this thing.
13:25And as you know, the silicone itself
13:28was very pliant and flexible.
13:30So it's almost like trying to glue
13:32a damp washcloth onto your face.
13:35There's not a structure to hold it in place
13:37as you're putting it on there.
13:39So it would drape a lot.
13:40So the smaller the pieces,
13:42obviously the less issues that were done with that.
13:46So that's kind of the, you know, the issues.
13:48And there's obviously some technical things.
13:50We don't want to have, you know,
13:51a blending edge too close to certain areas.
13:54We don't want to have it intrude into the lip too much.
13:57We want to avoid certain areas.
13:59So there's things.
14:00Matter of fact, when Vincent did the sculpture,
14:03I'm probably giving away a little secret of his,
14:05but you had that little notch in your ear
14:08that was a separate piece.
14:10Vincent has a little notch in his ear.
14:12So that's why he tried to plug
14:14a little bit of him in there.
14:16So that's...
14:17Did he really?
14:18And Jonah talked to him about that.
14:20I think Jonah wanted that little story kind of in there
14:23and where was that?
14:24Who took that chunk out?
14:26I don't know.
14:27It was just one of those synchronicity things
14:29where it's like, oh yes,
14:30I'd be happy to do that sort of thing.
14:32But when all was said and done,
14:34there were nine pieces.
14:36There was the whole kind of whole back of the head piece there,
14:39back of the neck,
14:40and it went down your shoulder blades in the back.
14:42Then there was the front neck piece
14:44that essentially would jawline
14:46down to the middle of your chest.
14:48And you know what?
14:49Take everyone through that
14:51because I'll never forget kind of the first time
14:53when we set out to do it in North Hollywood.
14:58First, it was the skull cap.
15:00That was the first thing,
15:01to get this hair kind of down.
15:03And we couldn't obviously shave my head
15:05or anything like that for Cooper Howard.
15:07And so once we got the skull cap on
15:09and then take us through it,
15:10what was the first piece that you assembled?
15:12First, once the bald cap was on,
15:14then the next thing that I would do
15:16was I had a template.
15:18It was a vacuform template
15:19that I would put on the back of your head
15:21and I would do a marking on it.
15:22So that told me where to put that piece
15:25because that first one was kind of actually the crucial one
15:27because that was-
15:28With a little black line.
15:29Yeah, a little black line
15:30that was not going to be seen.
15:32So that was glued on the whole back there
15:34behind your ear and all that.
15:37The next piece,
15:38I'm trying to remember what the next one we did was.
15:40I think we would probably do the top of the head.
15:43Top of the head was next.
15:45And that just was almost like a yarmulke.
15:47It was just like a little beanie that sat up there.
15:49It was very kind of small.
15:50And then the neck piece came down
15:52and it actually, just under your jawline,
15:55went all the way down,
15:56covered your pecs, all that.
15:58And as I recall, we did the,
16:01we'd do the chin next and then the upper lip.
16:05And then we would have a break at that point.
16:07Then there was the forehead
16:10that actually had covered your brow
16:12and the bridge of your nose right there.
16:14That's right, yeah.
16:16I blocked that out.
16:17I blocked that one out.
16:18Yeah, that one was there.
16:20So, okay.
16:21So then I'm going to insert this question here.
16:23You've worked with a lot of people
16:24over the course of your career.
16:26Some of them are very dear mutual friends of ours.
16:31Everyone's different.
16:32Their tolerance for being still is different.
16:36I'm a mover.
16:37Just as an actor,
16:39I never sit in a chair.
16:40I'm always off doing my own thing.
16:42You know that.
16:43We've been working together for 15 years.
16:45Yeah.
16:46Do you ever take that into consideration?
16:48Like with Sam Jackson?
16:50I mean, you know, like Sam.
16:53Sam is very patient.
16:55Yeah.
16:56And I'm not impatient.
16:57You just know when I need to move
16:59and you're like, we time it out.
17:01Yeah.
17:02You have that in the back of your mind?
17:04Sure.
17:05Matter of fact, when I was talking to Jimmy
17:06and he first mentioned that he wanted to have you,
17:09they were talking about you for the character.
17:11I was like, well, you know,
17:12I remember I said, you know,
17:14Walt's got a lot of rabbit in his blood.
17:16He likes to move around a little bit.
17:20So, you know,
17:21you got to try to figure out how to get this thing streamlined
17:24and all that sort of stuff.
17:25And it wasn't a negative thing.
17:27It was just, you know, it's just, you know,
17:29you like to get active.
17:30And everybody's kind of had their different things.
17:35Like, for example, when I'm working with Sam,
17:37sometimes his management agents will say,
17:40well, we really want to see Sam, you know, on, on camera.
17:44And Sam's got a great answer.
17:45He says, Sam will be at the premiere, the characters,
17:47what's on camera.
17:49So he's willing to go through that sort of process to do that.
17:53And Ron Perlman,
17:54when I've worked with him on the first hell boy, he,
17:58he just considered it part of his day.
18:00It was not anything that was an inconvenience and very much like you
18:04and I, he would have a laptop there.
18:06And I think his is he,
18:08I don't know how many times he watched the Godfather,
18:10but that was the thing.
18:11So everybody has their, you know, their thing.
18:15If it was somebody that was really difficult and I'll keep somebody out of
18:18it, I was asked to do one actor on a show a while back.
18:22And I just knew that this,
18:23this was not somebody that I wanted to be involved with on a work.
18:27Level. It was just, that's not worth the aggravation.
18:31When all was said and done.
18:32And it did end up becoming an issue for some,
18:35some of the people that did get involved with it, but.
18:37It's not easy. It's a, it's a real, it's real. It's, it's,
18:41it's an exercise. And for me, anyway, the, the way,
18:45the very first time that we put this on after the initial meeting where we
18:50took all the measurements of everything and the teeth measurements and,
18:54and even going to the eye doctor, right.
18:59Right. Yeah. And I, if you'll remember, I,
19:02that's what I had more anxiety about really than,
19:05than anything because I've, I've, I've worn those contacts before.
19:08And it was really, it's,
19:09it was impossible for me to think about anything other than what's on my,
19:13on, on my eyeball. And you and I had these, these very,
19:17you dealt with a very anxious person saying, I just can't do this, Jake.
19:21I can't, I don't know how to do this. And, and Jonah was coming over and,
19:25and he was so kind and patient and he said, we just got to,
19:29we got to try it. You know, let's, let's at least try it.
19:31And I remember just shaking, you know,
19:33looking at you leaning back, the woman was there.
19:37She put the contacts in and, and I, and I, and I looked in the mirror and I,
19:42I think I like, you're like a,
19:43like a daddy and a friend and all the rest of it. I looked up at you like,
19:47I can't do this. I hope he said,
19:48I don't know what he's going to say and looked in the mirror.
19:51And I think he just saw all of it. And luckily I think for all of us,
19:57the ghoul was no longer, there was no human left in him.
20:01It was a continuity that carried on with Cooper Howard to,
20:05there was a continuity, you know,
20:07so now all of a sudden we did see the eyes from this person from the,
20:10really was the only thing I didn't never even thought about that.
20:13It was the only thing that carries over from one to the other.
20:16Yeah. And the only remnant that was left in there at all. So, but yeah,
20:20no, I mean, it was, and, and you know,
20:23the numbers that were conveyed early on was like, yes,
20:26the first process took five hours.
20:28Five hours, five hours, mind you,
20:30on the day that I was bit five times by a brown recluse
20:35spriter.
20:36Exactly.
20:37Like literally waking up, getting ready to go early in the morning.
20:41And then had to go to the emergency room and get dealt with.
20:44I have, I have pictures of that day, man.
20:46I forgot about that.
20:47So yeah.
20:48With a huge, it was the very first day.
20:50It was the very first day.
20:51It was the very first day.
20:52I got this.
20:53Oh my God, my whole, my legs are on fire right now.
20:56Just relax into this wall.
20:58Yeah.
20:59Yeah.
21:00My name is Roger.
21:02My name is Roger.
21:04Oh my god, my whole, my legs are on fire right now.
21:07Just, just relax into this, Walton.
21:09Just relax into it.
21:10Yeah, exactly.
21:11So, yeah.
21:12Ah!
21:12Ah!
21:13Ah!
21:14Ah!
21:15Ah!
21:16My name is Roger.
21:17My name is Roger.
21:19My name is Roger.
21:26My name is Roger.
21:27Hey, Raj.
21:29Hey.
21:30Hey.
21:32Fancy seeing you out here.
21:35You out for that bounty, too, huh?
21:38Yep.
21:43Ah!
21:44Ah!
21:45Ah!
21:45Ah!
21:46Ah!
21:47Ah!
21:48Ah, shit!
21:52How you feeling?
21:53Oh!
21:54Oh!
21:55Oh!
21:55Ah!
21:56Ah!
21:57Ah!
21:58Ah!
21:59Ah!
22:00Ah!
22:00Oh!
22:02It's hard out here.
22:05Take some of these can be so unkind.
22:10You think you got a smoothie of your own?
22:12Ah!
22:13Ah!
22:14Ah!
22:15Ah!
22:16Ah!
22:16Ah!
22:17Ah!
22:18Ah!
22:19You're turning.
22:20Yeah.
22:21Yeah.
22:22Yeah, maybe.
22:24Maybe.
22:26Hey, you don't have to have any vials, do you?
22:31Yeah.
22:33Just one little puff and I'll be back on my feet.
22:36You don't look for it.
22:39I'm sorry, Roger.
22:40I'm all out.
22:41It's okay.
22:43It's okay.
22:44No, um, you and your smooth-faced friend,
22:47you, um, might want to clear out
22:52before things get ugly.
22:54Ah!
22:58I did okay.
23:0128 years since I first started showing.
23:04Ah!
23:06Ah!
23:07Ah!
23:08Ah!
23:09Ah!
23:10Ah!
23:10Ah!
23:11Help!
23:12Ah!
23:13Ah!
23:14Ah!
23:15Not as long as you, though.
23:17You felt last to us all.
23:19How long since you first started waistlining?
23:22A long time.
23:25That's a lot of vials.
23:27Well, I've always been good at making money, Roger.
23:35Say,
23:37remember how good food used to taste?
23:39Ah!
23:42Blanco mac and cheese.
23:43Ice cream and apple pie.
23:45Ah!
23:48Hot damn!
23:49Apple pie!
23:51You know, my mom used to...
23:53Ah!
23:58Ah!
24:02But yeah, the first process is always longer,
24:05because it's a learning thing for all of us.
24:07Plus, we're putting on pieces that are not pre-painted,
24:09so they were going on stripped of color,
24:11except for the silicone color itself,
24:14so, or the pre-tinted color.
24:16And then the second time was probably
24:19in and around that range,
24:21maybe about four hours and change,
24:22something like that, four and a half.
24:23And that was when, matter of fact,
24:25I was incorrect earlier.
24:26The first time I did meet Jonah was when he came by
24:28when we were doing the life cast of you.
24:30That was the first time.
24:32But the second, we wanted to do the first test,
24:35just me and Vincent and you, without anybody around.
24:39We just wanted to let, just let us figure it out,
24:42debug it.
24:43I don't want to get anything in anybody's head,
24:45you know, prematurely and all this.
24:48Let's just do a run with us.
24:50And we learned a lot from it.
24:52Yeah, well, and the thing that I learned most from it
24:57was I took an hour and a half
24:58after we put it on for the first time
25:00and went outside with my phone
25:02and just sat and looked, you know,
25:04just kept looking at myself and making movies of it.
25:07And like in the direct sunlight,
25:11even before the camera test, which we did as well,
25:14but just on my own, just to see,
25:16okay, how does this Ferrari,
25:18like how do you get this into gear, right?
25:21When do you need to shift and all the rest of it?
25:23Yeah, yeah, it was very informational.
25:25And again, luckily Vincent had engineered it such that,
25:28you know, and I know it was something that,
25:29you know, you were concerned about it
25:30when we were filming and all that about,
25:32is this conveying?
25:34And I just, I can only say to you
25:36that I'm feeling what you're feeling out there.
25:37And there's nothing that made me kind of go,
25:39you need to embellish this
25:41because you're being limited by the prosthetics.
25:44That was never a conversation.
25:47It's like, I'm just telling you then
25:49what you're projecting is coming out.
25:52I'm getting it.
25:53I'm seeing this.
25:54So I can't, you know, I can't pacify you
25:58until you see the product and you can go, okay.
26:02And there it is, so.
26:04You know, what was the,
26:07I really want to get into this very first day of work
26:11and kind of what that was like.
26:13And I've got a couple of questions to give you
26:16about just your process, all the work that you do
26:19before I even show up in the morning, right?
26:21But the one thing,
26:23the biggest speed bump for me or the biggest impediment,
26:28which I didn't anticipate,
26:31because I just didn't think about it
26:33until that very first day
26:35was the cheapest thing that we made for the ghoul
26:40during this entire process.
26:41You'll know, you know what it is.
26:43It was the molds that I put over my teeth.
26:47The veneers, yes.
26:48The veneers that we put over my teeth.
26:50And I didn't realize how
26:52that was going to affect my speech pattern.
26:55You know?
26:56Your diction, yes, of course.
26:57Yeah, I mean, you have a mouth this big
26:59and this many teeth.
27:00It's hard to get S's out, you know?
27:03See what else we can fit up in there.
27:05Yeah, that's exactly right.
27:06That was the trickiest part for me, like on day one.
27:12But well, okay, day one, take it.
27:15You get these pieces kind of sent to you from Vincent
27:18a week in advance.
27:19You're painting them, right?
27:20So you paint them, all of them.
27:22Pre-painted them based on the,
27:24because we did have one final test at Steiner
27:26before we filmed.
27:27So everybody could just get it on film
27:29and take a look at it and make sure they're happy.
27:31I got some notes from Jonah.
27:33And it's like, okay, so I pre-painted all this stuff.
27:36And then we go up to what was arguably
27:39one of the worst, worst days that we had.
27:42It was a hundred degree weather.
27:44We were shooting in an area where high humidity
27:46and all that.
27:47And it was the first time that you actually worked
27:49with all the components together.
27:52A lot of people had come up to me and says,
27:53well, that makeup must, it's gotta be so hot on.
27:56And I said, honestly, when he's walking around
27:59minus the outfit, it's not that bad,
28:02but you get a combination.
28:03I'm not putting anything on the outfit,
28:05but it's a cumulative effect of everything on there.
28:08And I had some technical stuff that I had go south on me
28:13for brief boredom for the tech heads out there.
28:17When I put the bald cap on, I had it
28:18and I kind of went right behind your ear and all that.
28:21And you were so hot during the day
28:22that it started sliding back.
28:24And we were losing some of the adhesion
28:26around the ear there.
28:27So I had to kind of go in and futz with that
28:29and get that sorted.
28:30But the next day we were able to debug it.
28:34And the other one was, I was able to call it.
28:37It was so hot that I was sweating out of my eyeballs.
28:43I didn't even realize that's what was happening.
28:45And Jonah came up and said, are you crying?
28:50No.
28:51And I mean, are you emotionally,
28:51is this the first day of Pentium?
28:53No, no, no, I'm fine, man.
28:55I'm fine.
28:56He said, because, boom, he touched my eyeball
28:58and all the water came running out.
29:00And I was sitting by myself.
29:02I'm not a complainer.
29:03And I know you would say that about me,
29:06which I am proud of.
29:08But that second day, sitting on the log that day
29:13or whatever, and feeling kind of this peace.
29:16I'll never forget when you came up to me
29:17and you said, okay, I'm getting a cooling suit
29:20flown in tomorrow.
29:21And I said, no, man, come on, we can't do that.
29:23We don't have to do that.
29:24He's like, you don't have an option.
29:26It's gonna be here.
29:27We're gonna put the thing on.
29:28And then we had that, thank God, for day two
29:32when it was 106.
29:34Yeah, exactly.
29:35We needed this.
29:36And like I say, even if it's just a minor temperature change
29:39psychologically, it does a lot for you as well.
29:43And then regarding to the leaking as we went on,
29:45that was something that would happen as we went on.
29:47And I kind of jokingly said one time,
29:49or maybe you said it, I can't remember
29:51that I was like a corner man for a boxer.
29:53It's like, I'm coming in, I'm working on the eyes
29:55and it's like, we're gonna be okay.
29:56You did great on that one.
29:57All right, go out and get them on the next take
29:59and all that sort of stuff.
30:00So just kind of squeegee out the sweat there and move on.
30:04But yeah, so it was-
30:05Do you remember when we were after all of this heat
30:13and kind of going through all of that
30:16in New York and then we went to Namibia
30:18and the very first time we put it on,
30:21nobody realized it was really windy there, very windy,
30:25and it was cold.
30:27And it was the first time during the entire experience
30:32where this is a climate for a reptile.
30:36This I'm happy with.
30:38I'm so comfortable right now
30:40and everybody else was freezing.
30:42It was like, I can film all day.
30:44What do you guys wanna do?
30:45Let's bring some stuff up from season two if we get it.
30:47Let's just make up a scene.
30:49Exactly, yeah.
30:50So, well, matter of fact, I think I'd heard from Leanne
30:55over at Gemstones that there was,
30:57I think Danny wanted to switch the seasons
31:01because I think-
31:01And you're bringing this up really quickly
31:03for everybody else.
31:04Jake also helped me set the look for baby Billy
31:09with McBride and Jay came in
31:12and we just kind of talked about it.
31:13And again, he said,
31:14look, we gotta be able to do this in 45 minutes.
31:16I know him.
31:17And then we did it and we did a test
31:19kind of for HBO the very first time.
31:21Anyway, just contextualizing that for people.
31:24But I remember, Danny's a sweater, as is Goodman.
31:27And I think the season got shifted a little bit more
31:31towards late summer, early fall, as I recall,
31:34because they kind of realized
31:36it's like that sort of temperature for any,
31:38minus for genetics in that sort of climate
31:43is pretty rough, you know?
31:44So, yeah.
31:47You know, how about this?
31:50I wanna take people through like the day, right?
31:55And started getting there first thing in the morning,
31:58you painted the pieces, everything is ready.
31:59You're in your head.
32:00Yeah.
32:01Meditate, doing your version of your meditation
32:03to get ready for your process
32:05because you're the one who's working.
32:07I'm the one who's having the work being done to me.
32:09I'm not doing anything.
32:10I'm just practicing patience
32:12and trying to be as in as possible.
32:15You're the one for, I mean,
32:17we got it down to an hour, 45 minutes, I think was,
32:20which was incredible.
32:22Like it's just, that would never happen with anyone else.
32:25But you're running, you're going for an hour, two hours,
32:31very intense, precise, precision kind of work.
32:34And we would listen to music.
32:36We'd have a cup of coffee outside, right?
32:38First thing, and then go in
32:41and then this big exhale, get the music ready,
32:45start some music first, and then let's go.
32:48We would listen to music for 20 minutes,
32:51go all over the map, and then we would start a movie.
32:53We'd start a Western every single day.
32:55Yep, and you would get going on that.
32:57And I would come in about usually a half an hour
33:01before you were, or maybe even a little bit more
33:03before you were scheduled in the chair.
33:04But the days that you had off,
33:06I would get multiple sets from Vincent.
33:09So I would pre-paint all of those to almost like 95%.
33:13So I would pull out a set
33:15and have them all prepped in the trailer.
33:18And I work solo.
33:20I, you know, I've had some people ask me about,
33:23wouldn't it go quicker with other people there?
33:25And it doesn't seem to work for me for some reason.
33:28One, I'm a big guy, but there's, I think there's,
33:31I've seen it too many times where,
33:34unless you've got a very choreographed dance
33:36with this thing, it's, you just kind of bump
33:38into each other.
33:38And once I kind of get in a groove, it's just,
33:41let's go, let's go, let's go.
33:43And there's a continuity with it that works out.
33:45So all the pieces are prepped.
33:47And when you come in there, it's just,
33:49I kind of go on autopilot because once,
33:52and I kind of found this out when I was doing Perlman
33:54on Hellboy was that, and I did him,
33:56I think 86 times in that makeup.
33:58And once, and I feel this is true for any makeup
34:03that you're doing for, you know, extended times,
34:05you really can, you really get it debugged
34:07by about the 15th to 20th application,
34:10because you've now figured out every shortcuts.
34:12We kept doing shortcuts for a long time.
34:15You know, you were saying, can we avoid doing this?
34:17Okay, let's try it.
34:18The weather's okay.
34:19You know, I would get paranoid if the weather was hot.
34:21And it's true this.
34:22So we would collaborate.
34:25And so, you know, we'd just start nibbling.
34:28But once you get it down to that thing there,
34:29then it's just a matter of, I don't want to say
34:33self amusement or a self challenge to say,
34:35let me see if I can knock off two minutes off of this one
34:37or three or five.
34:39Yeah.
34:40And it works, you know, if it needs to go faster.
34:43You know, one of the biggest,
34:45one of the biggest and one of the things that was,
34:46and I'm gonna go take us into another realm here
34:49in just a second.
34:50But one of the biggest things early on
34:52that I also didn't anticipate was,
34:55got it on, the piece is on,
34:56the piece went all the way to the shoulder on both sides
34:59and down below my chest and deep on my back.
35:02And I went in and put my costume on for the first time.
35:06And I thought something was going on with my head.
35:09I felt like I was having some kind of a mental breakdown
35:12because I couldn't feel my shirt,
35:14things that you take for granted,
35:15like, and how it sits on your shoulder.
35:18And I couldn't, and I was like, what's,
35:19I don't understand what's happening to me.
35:21And looking in the mirror,
35:22I could see that I had my shirt on, obviously,
35:25but I couldn't feel it.
35:26And then I, oh my God,
35:27because this is going all the way over.
35:28I can't have that because I'm just,
35:30that's all I am consumed with this thought.
35:32Like I have to feel the shirt on my shoulder.
35:35And then we just cut the piece.
35:38Yeah, we started cutting it,
35:39which took off probably a few pounds.
35:42Yeah, usually left it in the front there.
35:44And what I would do was I'd use some of this stuff
35:47called Opsite and I would just kind of tape it down.
35:49So we would cut the shoulder pads off basically.
35:52Yeah.
35:53And have that, you don't want to get,
35:54tempt fate and get too close there
35:56because if you're really actively moving,
35:58you run the risk of it kind of popping away
35:59or the wardrobe pulls wide or something like that.
36:01We want to make sure we're not going to reveal anything.
36:04But yeah, I mean, even the first test,
36:07we did a glue down.
36:08We glued everything down to the bottom right there.
36:11And then towards the end there,
36:13I would stop at the collarbone on you.
36:15That was the end of it right there.
36:17And then the rest of it would just be loose down there.
36:21And I'd tape it here and here.
36:23I would leave this alone because that was usually okay
36:26unless something presented itself
36:28and I'd go in there and contend with it.
36:30But usually it was fine, but that not.
36:32You know, and the one thing we haven't really talked about,
36:35cause I know we're getting close
36:36to the end of our time here,
36:37but there's just two things I want to bring up.
36:40One being the days that were so hot
36:48and once we were really comfortable with everything
36:51and Jonah said, okay, when you're, you have it down,
36:56we have all of your stuff is in the can.
36:58And now we're turning back around on somebody else.
37:01You can start ripping it off.
37:03By that point it was saturated, right?
37:06I mean, it was, it was really, really wet.
37:08And then I would just take chunks of it and pull it off.
37:13Like we could never get it up here, right?
37:15I never, I always said I could just be careful
37:17around the eyes.
37:18That was the only thing.
37:19Here's kind of a tougher area, but yeah, you'd see that.
37:21I think I've got some pictures of it somewhere,
37:23but yeah, you just get that off right there
37:25and start nibbling away at it right there.
37:28And I said, don't go too far.
37:29We might catch this on a grazing shot
37:31or something like that.
37:32But yeah, once you got that done,
37:34then you were out of your head
37:35for a little bit right there.
37:37But also you had, you kind of clocked yourself
37:40at that point too, where it was like,
37:41you realized that 10 hours was the optimum working time
37:46for the ghoul, including the application,
37:48because after that, if they're not making good use
37:52of their time by shooting you out
37:55and there's a lot of idle time in between stuff,
37:58it's a tough one to just sit there with that on.
38:02Yeah.
38:03Yeah, and then you, I mean,
38:04because we've worked together for so long
38:06and everybody has their process and you know me,
38:08like depending on what we're shooting on that day,
38:10like I'm social or I'm antisocial is an understatement.
38:17And I would get quiet and get in my head.
38:19And then at the end of the day,
38:22the best part of it was coming back in
38:25and what took, what we got to two hours and 15 minutes,
38:28an hour, 45 minutes, it took us about 20 minutes,
38:3125 minutes to kind of get everything on.
38:34Yeah, yeah.
38:34And the D-Tap and all the rest of it on the face.
38:37And you remember, I won't forget this,
38:42how when I say it was emotional,
38:45like the last day that we did it.
38:50Yeah.
38:51That was for the, one of the publicity shots, as I recall.
38:55Well, that's, oh my God.
38:56Okay, the last day of work, absolutely.
38:59But then the last day of the, yeah, the photo shoot.
39:02Last day of filming, yeah.
39:03Yeah, the last day of filming, it was like,
39:06we looked at each other and said,
39:07man, we've come a long way, haven't we, buddy?
39:09Yeah, it started.
39:11We've seen a lot of movies.
39:12We've listened to a lot of music.
39:14Yeah.
39:15Had a number of glasses of wine after work.
39:17Man, this is like, I am grateful for this experience,
39:21but I'll be happy to kind of lay this down
39:23for a little while.
39:24My skin will be happy to lay this down.
39:25Absolutely.
39:26And now you're getting it nice and toasty down in Thailand
39:29and you look fantastic.
39:30I'm digging the hair, actually.
39:31I'm trying to get up to you, buddy.
39:35Anyway, I just can't tell you,
39:38I look back on this experience,
39:41on a number of experiences that we've had together
39:43and always one of the greatest parts of any experiences
39:47is getting the opportunity to work with you
39:49and more importantly, just our friendship, you know?
39:52And I just adore you.
39:53And I couldn't have done this without you being there,
39:58mentally, as much as just the physical application of it.
40:01And I love you, buddy.
40:03And I'm just, I'm so proud of you.
40:05And I'm just so grateful that we get to do it again.
40:09And then we'll get to do it again after at some point
40:12for the rest of our lives.
40:14There's a point where it's just going to be,
40:15okay, I'll pass the torch.
40:17But yeah, but it's been a treat.
40:19And honestly, I think somebody was asking me
40:21in an interview earlier about what was the high point.
40:23And he's like, well, I found out you were on it.
40:25I've always had a wonderful time
40:27when I've been on location with you
40:28or sets and just social stuff.
40:30So to me, it really doesn't even kind of fall
40:34into a work mode almost.
40:36It just kind of, I get to have some good time to hang out
40:38and just happen to be getting paid for it at the same time
40:40and putting some stuff on camera
40:42for what ended up being 65 million.
40:47It works out, it worked out.
40:49All good.
40:50All right, buddy.
40:51Well, I miss you and I thank you so much
40:53for having this conversation with me.
40:55And thank you Deadline for letting us talk
40:59about the process of making The Ghoul on Fallout
41:04on Amazon Prime.
41:07And I'll see you down the road, buddy.
41:09I'll see you really soon.
41:10Have a good time in Atlanta.
41:12Tell Sam I said hello.
41:13Will do, buddy.