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00:00Hi, my name is Damon Wise, and I'm here to talk to the creative team behind Nahwi, which
00:08is Kenya's official entry for Best International Feature.
00:12The film is about a 13-year-old girl called Nahwi who finds out that her father is planning
00:15to sell her as a bride to a much older man for a herd of goats.
00:18But instead of obeying tradition, she chooses to fight her impending marriage and embarks
00:22on a journey to reclaim her dream of going to high school.
00:25With us to discuss the film are two of the film's directors, Tobias Schmutzler and Kevin
00:28Schmutzler.
00:29We also have the film's star, Michelle Lemoye-Ekenyi, and the film's writer, Milka Shorotish.
00:34Now I'm going to start with the writer, Milka.
00:37Tell me what inspired you to write the story, what was the inspiration for writing Nahwi?
00:41So two very special people in my life inspired me to write the story.
00:47One of them is my elder sister, who went through pain, agony, and misery, if I have to use
00:55those words, when she was forced to get married to an old man when she was only 14.
01:04And through the problems, the issues surrounding this incident, she lost her eldest child.
01:14And even though she managed later on to escape this marriage, I feel that she's not living
01:20the life that she would have wanted.
01:23And I say so because when I speak to her, she tells me, Milka, do you know that if I'd
01:29gone to school, I would be a pilot now?
01:32And I surely do not doubt her because she's very smart and very intelligent.
01:36She never stepped a foot in a classroom, but she does mathematics very well.
01:44She can speak some words in English, surprisingly.
01:49She speaks Swahili perfectly, and she didn't go to school.
01:55So I really believe her when she said that she wanted to be, she would have been a pilot.
02:02And even though the incident happened many years ago, she's now around 65 years old,
02:11but there are some things that are happening in her life or the way she behaves that suggest
02:17that whatever happened to her when she was 14, 15, and 16 in that marriage are affecting
02:26her present life.
02:28So the second person who inspired me to write this story is my friend.
02:32When I finished high school, I went to look after my niece, who was a newborn, in the
02:38remote places of my county.
02:42And I met a friend there who was in high school.
02:45She was in Form 2.
02:48And one time we were going to the market, and just from nowhere, men came and then they
02:55took my friend away.
02:57So she was screaming, I was screaming, and this guy said, sticks and whips.
03:04And so my friend was just crying, they're taking her away.
03:08She was looking back at me, but there was nothing I could do.
03:11I tried to run after her, but there were men who were, you know, they were blocking
03:17me from following them.
03:19And they actually threatened me that they are going to hit me if I continue screaming.
03:24There is nothing I could have done.
03:26I just saw my friend being taken away.
03:29When the opportunity to write about a story in our communities came up, I knew it was
03:36now or never.
03:38I knew that I had to write this story about child marriage, because it has been tormenting
03:44me for the longest time possible.
03:46I didn't know if the film crew would be interested with my story, but I just said I'm going to
03:52write it.
03:53Even if they won't be interested, they would have read about child marriage.
03:58And for me, one more person who would learn about child marriage was already a win for
04:04me.
04:05Toby and Kevin, how did you get involved with this project?
04:08It's actually been quite a while.
04:11There is an NGO working in the very region where the film is located.
04:15It's called Tokana, in the northern region of Kenya.
04:22And this NGO approached Toby and me more than seven years ago, because we are social impact
04:28filmmakers, meaning we look for narratives that can spark movements, that can create
04:36change in the real world, adding to the message of the movie, but that can create tangible
04:40impact.
04:41And so this NGO, which is a German Kenyan NGO, reached out to us seven years ago, asking
04:48if we want to try to figure out whether it's possible to do a project in a region like
04:53that, integrating their NGO work, which has an educational purpose.
04:59And that's how we got in.
05:00It's like before COVID, different age, long while back.
05:06And since then, we have been constantly developing, looking for the right story that doesn't come
05:15from a Western perspective, but speaks a Kenyan language, is an original Kenyan story.
05:22We hosted a script writing competition back in 2021, 22.
05:27And the winner of the script writing competition was an entry by Milka Cheretic, by Milka.
05:33And I think we never told you Milka, but it's like everyone on the jury of this writing
05:42competition.
05:43It was Kenyans, it was Europeans, it was Americans, and everyone voted for your story.
05:49After the first journey where we kind of saw some locations and met some people in Turkana
05:55and met the NGO, the Learning Lions, and their students who are also trained in filmmaking,
06:01we said, yeah, definitely, we're going to do this.
06:04Yeah, let's rock this.
06:05And like, as Kevin said, it was 2017.
06:09So until we were able to rock this, there was a lot of effort in finding said right
06:15story.
06:16There was a lot of effort in finding the right cast.
06:19The star, Michelle, we had to do school castings.
06:24So we went to all the schools in Turkana and looked at hundreds and hundreds of girls
06:29and boys for the two lead roles.
06:33And yeah, I did like a semi-professional casting with them, had them interpret like one sentence
06:42and then come back for a whole scene, the better ones.
06:45And that's how we then found our lead actress.
06:50Yeah, so it was a very, very different but very interesting process to make this film.
06:56Michelle, how did you get involved?
06:58Tell us about the audition that you did.
07:01So as Toby has just said, they did school castings of our schools all around Turkana.
07:09Then they came to our school and the teachers asked who can act.
07:16And I didn't know.
07:17I assumed maybe it's a school drama or something.
07:21I didn't actually know it was a movie.
07:24Yeah, I went.
07:26We tried a few lines.
07:29And yeah, I ended up with the act of children, yes.
07:34Toby and Kevin, obviously this is not your world.
07:38How did you find your way through this community?
07:41So, of course, we knew we needed help.
07:44So you can't put two German guys in Kenya and just make an authentic movie.
07:50It just doesn't work.
07:51It's not the right way.
07:52So through that NGO, again, we found ourselves co-directors, Apu Marine and Valentine Chelogat,
08:02who helped to dive in culturally, who helped to get everything captured authentically
08:09and who also, funnily enough, Apu is working in an outreach program for exactly those communities.
08:15So she knows the elders.
08:17She knows the men.
08:18She knows how it's done and how to approach them.
08:20And she kind of opened up the people for the idea of this movie,
08:25because in Turkana there has never been shot a movie like this.
08:29So you start explaining why this is important, why we need to do this.
08:34What's the end goal?
08:37Without Apu and Valentine, we could never have done that.
08:41And even on set, because the movie is in English, but also in Swahili,
08:47and we speak very little Swahili by now,
08:51but even the dialogue coaching and making sure actors were sticking to the script.
08:59So we definitely needed our Kenyan better halves to be able to realize this.
09:05And then obviously it's not common that there are four directors in a movie.
09:09I actually don't know if there are more than a handful of movies who have that.
09:14But in our particular case, it actually worked pretty nicely,
09:19because it was very clear.
09:22It was not like we had super strict roles,
09:25but it was very clear that there is a fluent process
09:28and that when it comes to questions of cinematography,
09:31it's maybe more our feeling that guides the way.
09:37And when it comes to cultural and topics that directly touch the issue,
09:44then it's more Apu's voice that counts.
09:47And so it was always interesting, because from scene to scene, from day to day,
09:53the roles were very fluid.
09:55And obviously sometimes there was like, how are we going to do this?
09:59And we had to discuss.
10:02Sometimes we discussed longer, but most of the times we kept the discussions away from set.
10:07And then on set, our goal was to speak with one voice
10:13and to guide the process from day to day.
10:16And as I said, it was different every day.
10:18But shooting in that region, it's different any day anyway.
10:23So every day had its challenges.
10:27Every day was completely different.
10:29It's not like going to the studio in the morning and going to bed at night.
10:33It's like, it starts with how does the crew get water to where are the goats
10:42and where's the goat herder.
10:45You can't imagine what happens on a daily basis,
10:49like on an hourly basis even, when you shoot so remotely.
10:55But that's where the great benefit was of working with people who live there,
10:59because we as foreigners, we just adapt their way of calmness
11:06and of dealing with the things, because it's going to work in the end.
11:11And that's what particularly we had to learn in the process, I think,
11:15like trust in everything, trust in the surrounding, trust in everyone
11:21and just rely on the strength and move forward whatever happens.
11:29How many professional actors were on the set?
11:31Was it all non-professionals?
11:33Yeah, so our goal in the casting, maybe let me jump in on that quickly,
11:38was especially the Kenyan producers and directors were like,
11:44okay, we need to find the talent, the key talent, the lead roles in the region,
11:49because they have to be familiar with the topic,
11:51because it's hard for a child to act that if they don't know what happens.
11:56So we needed to make sure to find the roles for Naui, Joel, Hope.
12:04I won't go into detail, because we don't want to spoil
12:06in case you guys watch the movie later.
12:10We need to find those key roles in the region,
12:15but then we decided for the supporting cast that surrounds them
12:21to find established actors from Nairobi who the kids could lean onto in the scenes,
12:29so that they would have someone who would guide the scene
12:32and that they could just follow along and fill it with life.
12:35And I think everyone leaned on Michelle in the scenes.
12:40But I think it kind of worked to have this mix out of first-time actors
12:46and experienced actors and actresses.
12:51That kind of keeps the authentic,
12:54or that's for Germans always like a super hard word, you know what I mean?
12:58It keeps it authentic and at the same time makes sure
13:03that the level of acting is always there and is always on point,
13:06which is important.
13:08I mean, especially to us as directors,
13:10it was important to know what we get for some of the roles.
13:17A question for Milka.
13:18What is the impact you hope this film will have moving forward?
13:22The impact that I really hope for is that by the end of the film,
13:26we all acknowledge that child marriage is a major social problem
13:30that requires very urgent change and that each one of us,
13:35regardless of our careers, regardless of our background,
13:38we can collectively come together, collaborate,
13:42and always condemn and speak against child marriage
13:45because these practices thrive in silence.
13:49I'm also hoping that the film can inspire change
13:53so that strict and stringent measures and policies are put up in place
13:59that can safeguard the interests of young girls
14:03so that they can enjoy their human rights and live to their full potential.
14:08So, Michelle, what has this film done for you?
14:11Has it changed your life?
14:12And how would you like people to see this movie?
14:15What would you like people to take away from this film?
14:17Oh, yes.
14:18Of course, the film has changed my life in so many ways.
14:23And I would just like people to know,
14:27okay, I would love the people to know that,
14:31okay, we, the people, not to blame them,
14:35like fully blame them for what they're doing
14:38because, yeah, that's what they've been doing all along.
14:42That's what they've learned is right.
14:44That's what they've been raised knowing is right.
14:48And I love how the film is,
14:51okay, bringing this matter and educating against it
14:56in a nice way, in a polite way,
14:58and not telling them straight in the eye,
15:02this is wrong, you should be arrested for this.
15:07I like the way the film is also entertaining.
15:11I'm afraid that's all we have time for.
15:13Thank you so much, Toby, Kevin, Milka, and Michelle.