Why Women Are Striking On The Second Anniversary Of The Dobbs Decision

3 months ago

Rachel O'Leary Carmona, executive director of Women's March, speaks to ForbesWomen editor Maggie McGrath about how women are fighting back on the second anniversary of Roe v. Wade's overturning.

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00:00Hi everyone, I'm Maggie McGrath, editor of Forbes Women.

00:07The second anniversary of the Dobbs decision, which overturned Roe v. Wade, is upon us and

00:13in honor of the occasion, or rather to mark the occasion, women will be going on strike

00:18on June 24th.

00:20Here to explain what we need to know about this strike and all it hopes to accomplish

00:24is the executive director of the Women's March, Rachel O'Leary Carmona.

00:29Rachel, thank you so much for joining us.

00:32Thank you for having me.

00:34Let's start with this strike.

00:35How many women do we expect to strike and what exactly does the strike entail?

00:42We're not really sure.

00:43We're going to find that out together on Monday.

00:45The strike began as a grassroots movement on TikTok actually, and one day Women's March

00:51staff woke up and we found 60-70 marches planned on our map, which is exactly what our tools

00:56are used for for everyday feminists to be able to take action on the issues that matter

00:59to them.

01:00And so it's just been growing ever since.

01:02We have a couple of our own rallies that we are planning for the Dobbs anniversary and

01:07so we'll see how many people strike, how many people attend.

01:11We know right now there are hundreds planned.

01:12There's still a week to go, so we're all going to find out together on Monday the 24th.

01:18Based on activity you've seen in prior marches, what effect do you hope to make or what statement

01:24do you hope to make on Monday?

01:27The way to really understand marches is that this is the way that many people get involved

01:32for the first time.

01:34So about 80% of our march attendees and our march planners, and I say march loosely, it

01:38could be a rally, it could be a strike, it could be another kind of action.

01:41They're new to movement and not just new to Women's March, but new to movement in general.

01:46So what we are seeing is an expansion of the movement, a movement that continues to grow,

01:50continues to add people to its ranks, and I think particularly with this grassroots

01:54initiative, a demonstration of the ways in which women are furious, and I think that

02:00we will continue to see these organic grassroots movements pop up as we get closer and closer

02:04to November.

02:05Earlier, I spoke with a sociologist, Jessica Calarco, who talked about the effect of a

02:11strike that women in Iceland put on in 1975, and it happened unmasked.

02:17Women were responsible for caregiving, had schools shut down, some workplaces found themselves

02:22inundated with kids, and she says that as a result, it led to more women in government,

02:28it led to Iceland's first female president.

02:32Could we see the same type of impact here from a strike and demonstration on June 24th,

02:38or is the fact that it's a mix of strikes and demonstrations a sign that it's perhaps

02:43more of a message-sending moment than a moment for policy change?

02:48I mean, what you're talking about in Iceland and this strike today are kind of apples and

02:53oranges.

02:54You know, a general strike is a completely different scale, takes months and months to

02:59plan and a lot of resources to help folks who, you know, especially in the United States,

03:03might lose their jobs, you know, in right-to-work states or places where it's actually risky.

03:09So we have a completely different landscape.

03:10We're much bigger, we're much less homogenous, and so I guess the impact of that type of

03:18strike would necessitate a multitude of different tactics in the United States and pressure

03:25over time.

03:26So mobilizations are a part of that, but it also requires organizing, deep relational

03:30organizing, lobbying, and inside-outside game.

03:33So there's not an easy kind of, would this, is this replicable?

03:37Well, you know, sure, you know, but we also have to take into account a different time,

03:42a different space, a different political climate, different, you know, incentives that run for

03:47and against organizing and mobilizing in the United States.

03:50It's actually not, it's a pretty hostile environment to protest these days.

03:55So I think that it's important for us to take all that into consideration and say that we

03:59have to continue to fight in all the ways that are available to us, and the only thing

04:03that gets us closer to the win is just keeping that fight up.

04:09You spoke earlier about the anger that women hold, and you have a very unique position

04:13in American society as the head of the Women's March.

04:16So if you don't mind for us, can you take a look back at the past two years?

04:21What are the effects that you have seen of the Dobbs decision and the overturning of

04:27Roe v. Wade on women?

04:30I mean, I guess I'd back that up and say we can talk about the effects of women on women.

04:36Particularly we've seen a lot about women like Kate Cox or, you know, folks who have

04:40been criminalized for, you know, their pregnancy and complications that have arised during

04:46it or the attempts to terminate, you know, and have an abortion.

04:50But I want to actually roll back and talk about abortion as a, as a larger tactic, which

04:54is to say that the ending of abortion, it's not just because the, you know, the Republicans

04:59hate women.

05:00That may be incidental.

05:01It may be a part of it, but this is actually an attack on democracy.

05:05Most of the groups who are aligned around this goal and who are pushing it are pushing

05:10other issues like anti-trans, you know, trying to ban books, you know, and overturning votes.

05:17Many of them are, were associated with January 6th folks or are perpetuating the lie that

05:23the presidency was stolen.

05:25And so these are folks who have a goal of undermining democracy itself.

05:29The only thing that has actually changed public opinion on abortion in the last 50 years has

05:34been Dobbs.

05:35And that moved more to people believing that abortion should, you know, be a right that

05:40is protected and not fewer.

05:42So what is happening is that there are democratically expressed ideas, votes, chosen candidates,

05:46et cetera, who are being undermined and stripped away by this same group of people.

05:51So we need to understand this is not just an attack on women, but an attack on democracy

05:55and an attack on every American.

05:57And I think the outcome of that is disgraceful.

06:02It's a disgraceful period of our history in our country, but also a very dangerous one.

06:06We are slipping towards, you know, autocracy as we see the rise of authoritarians globally

06:12in a year where half of the countries on the globe are inside of election years.

06:18And we see a global rise of authoritarianism, and that's something that is very dangerous

06:23and something that we should all be very alarmed about.

06:27It is very alarming, and you just mentioned a lot of crucial issues there, and I do think

06:31democracy is the overarching one.

06:33But just to dive into some of the other issues that you mentioned, you mentioned anti-trans

06:37bills, you mentioned book banning.

06:40What are the other political issues that you're hearing from women and the constituents that

06:45Women's March serves?

06:46Is it more of fair pay, family leave, or is it climate change policy?

06:53Is it the conflict in Gaza?

06:54Is it all of the above?

06:57I mean, women are a huge block.

06:59I mean, we're half the country, we're more than half of the voters, and so different

07:02things matter to different people just depending on where folks are located, you know.

07:05So generally speaking, we know that our base is very concerned about safety and security,

07:10concerned about political violence.

07:12We know that folks are concerned about the weaponization of abortion bans.

07:15We know that folks are concerned with abortion care.

07:18We know that folks are concerned about what's happening in Gaza.

07:21We know that folks are concerned with what's happening with the economy.

07:24Many women are heads of households.

07:25So I don't think that it's possible to say, like, here are our top three.

07:29I think what is actually true is that most women are in the position of having to care

07:33about all three.

07:34Like, all of the concerns are number one.

07:37You can't, you know, really be thinking about when and how to have a family if you don't

07:41know how to, you're going to pay rent or how you're going to afford gas to go to work,

07:46and if you are going to have electricity because a storm knocked out your electricity in Houston.

07:50You know, all of these things overlap, and they can't be, you know, they can't be separated.

07:55They can't be disaggregated, and that's why, you know, we really believe that a feminist

08:00future is so important, is that we have to understand that all of these pieces are connected,

08:05and that in order to bring forward the future that is necessary, we have to have a lens

08:09that has, that offers the possible solutions and the political vehicle to get to where

08:14we need to be to thrive.

08:17Now to get to where we need to be to thrive, I do have to ask, we have an election coming

08:22up in November.

08:24Obviously, the actions on June 24th are related to Dobbs, but what is the Women's March and

08:29Women's March Network doing to support President Biden in the November election?

08:38Well I think, again, what's really important about our election in 2024 is the bigger landscape

08:44of so many other elections in 2024.

08:47Mexico just had one, Europe just had one, we're having one, and inside of the context

08:52of the rise of authoritarianism, and so when we look at the ballot in 2024, whether you're

08:57looking at a local ballot, whether you're looking at a state ballot, whether you're

09:00looking at the federal ballot, you know, the races, what is on the ballot is freedom or

09:04fascism, and that's it.

09:06It's just that simple.

09:07And so we are fighting towards freedom in all of the different ways that we can.

09:11We have a special emphasis on working in the states where there are ballot initiatives

09:15regarding abortion, because that's where our base is really fired up and ready to go.

09:20And so we're just pushing as many people to what we call knock your block at once.

09:24We focus on getting folks situated to organize the people that they love in their lives,

09:30and that is what our main intervention is going to be moving forward into the election

09:35season.

09:36Now, obviously, the Women's March came into prominence in 2017.

09:40In the aftermath of the 2016 election, we saw thousands upon thousands of women pouring

09:46into the streets around the country, and I know there have been marches since, but for

09:50folks who haven't been following the day-to-day news coming out of Women's March Network,

09:55what do we need to know about the accomplishments the organization has achieved in the last

09:59seven years?

10:01Well, in the last seven years, we've organized over 15,000 actions globally in all 50, globally,

10:08but also in all 50 states.

10:11We've mobilized over 20 million people.

10:14We've been engaged in a number of fights that we pushed and won, including the Supreme Court

10:19race in Wisconsin, including beating back the so-called Sanctuary Cities for the Unborn

10:23Initiative, actually in Amarillo, Texas, where I am located.

10:28And then we followed the Mifflin-Pristone case that was just tossed out of the Supreme

10:32Court from Amarillo all the way up.

10:34So we have picked and won a lot of big battles.

10:37Of course, we were at the front lines of both Trump impeachments and one of the driving

10:44forces through Women's March in getting out the vote and flipping the White House back

10:52to blue.

10:54We've been out there working, and like many women, the stories are typically about the

10:59big marches and everything, but the actual work of building a movement is the envelope

11:06stuffing and the hauling of T-shirts and boxes and talking to your neighbors and talking

11:12to your friends.

11:13So much of activist work is very much like women's work, underappreciated, unseen, underpaid,

11:19undervalued.

11:20And so shout out to all the women inside of the Women's March's overall network who are

11:26just groups of women who, when the time came for work to be assigned, they just raised

11:31their hands.

11:32Very new to activism and the folks who are really growing the movement and making it

11:38swell to be able to have the biggest week possible so that we can win and also defend

11:42those wins over time.

11:45It's the day-to-day work.

11:46Now, what's interesting about the big movement that you've just described is that women are

11:49not a monolith.

11:50And I know a number of women's organizations, including Women's March, has in the past struggled

11:55with questions about intersectionality or differing views on issues, most notably the

12:02conflict in Gaza.

12:03How do you navigate those issues internally in your organization?

12:09I mean, I think that our organization will be clear about the conflict in Gaza.

12:16As of last year, we had a statement and a petition that tens of thousands of people

12:20signed calling for ceasefire.

12:22So I actually don't think that those pieces are difficult.

12:27I think what is difficult is doing the political work and the organizing work to actually have

12:32alignment around a set of politics at first, and that just takes time.

12:36Women's March itself, kind of like the strike, was an organic movement that became harnessed

12:43into multiple actions and then into an organization, and that there were growing periods associated

12:50with that.

12:51And I think the way that we navigated that growth from a moment to a movement to an organization

12:58is just to really focus on the people on the base and say, what is it that we're trying

13:02to do?

13:03What are our political goals?

13:04And our political goals have always been very clear and have gotten clearer and clearer

13:10as the stakes have gotten higher and higher.

13:13Because one of the things I think that I think a lot of people who don't engage with politics

13:20every day get frustrated, and they say, well, you told me in 2016 that it was the most important

13:25election of my lifetime.

13:26And then you said the same thing in 2018, and then 2020, and 2022, and now you're saying

13:30the same in 2024.

13:31And the frustrating truth about that is, is that it's been true every time.

13:36It's not that it hasn't a lie.

13:38Each time, the election landscape has shifted and become more and more critical, and frankly

13:45dire.

13:46We're at a place where we really are choosing if we're going to continue to be a democracy

13:49in the way that we understand it.

13:51And I think that our movement has matured along with that and gotten a very clear political

13:56analysis necessarily along the journey.

13:59I think it's interesting that you talk about democracy being on the ballot, not just in

14:02the U.S., but in the world writ large.

14:05You've spoken to cybersecurity experts here at Forbes in the past talking about the world's

14:09elections.

14:10So I have to ask, are there Women's March representatives around the world?

14:14Are there international chapters?

14:15And if not, is that in the future?

14:19There was, at the very beginning, a Women's March global.

14:23And I think over time, the momentum, I guess the political home for that was in question.

14:28I think the thing that any ongoing movement has to be clear about is who is your base.

14:34And I think the question was, is the global base American expats or is there space for

14:40a global, a Women's March that is global?

14:43Now, what I will say is that it is not Women's March, but one of the groups that is winning

14:48very clearly and is an inspiration to me personally is the Green Wave, which is the collection

14:55of feminist groups in Latin America who have been winning for abortion rights and fighting

15:00femicide in many different countries, including Mexico and Argentina.

15:05And so I think that while there may not be Women's March, there are legible feminist

15:12movements who are, in fact, the global leaders in terms of making wins for women.

15:18And I think that we have a lot to learn from folks like that.

15:24A lot to learn and a lot coming up.

15:25So June 24th, Women's Marches and Strikes election in November.

15:31What are the one, two or three things that you're looking ahead to in the coming six

15:36months that we should have our eye on?

15:38Is it certain states with abortion initiatives?

15:40Is it the marches and strikes on the 24th?

15:43Is it all of the above?

15:46I mean, the first thing that I'd say is that everything that I'm going to look towards

15:50is going to be on Women's March dot com.

15:52So that's like the first thing.

15:54The second thing that I would say is I'm really looking at the states with abortion like abortion

16:01related ballot initiatives.

16:04And then the third thing that I would say is that we are really looking for the overperformance

16:10of women again.

16:11And so as we launch all of our initiatives, our knock your block initiative, as we look

16:15to a mobilization before the election, a national mobilization before the election, I think

16:22we're looking to see, you know, I'm I'm I'm betting on women.

16:27And every time I do, I haven't been let down.

16:30And so that that's where my attention is.

16:32That's where my hope is.

16:34And that's where I that's where I suggest other people go to.

16:38Rachel O'Leary Carmona, executive director of Women's March.

16:42Thank you so much for joining us.

16:44And please stay in touch.

16:45You have a lot of insights to share.

16:47Thank you for having me.

Why Women Are Striking On The Second Anniversary Of The Dobbs Decision

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