Dismissed by well-established political parties and leaders in Uttar Pradesh, Bhim Army chief Chandrashekhar Azad 'Ravan' has become the MP from the symbolic Nagina seat. The seat was previously part of Bijnor constituency which sent Mayawati to Parliament. In conversation with Outlook, Azad who is being dubbed the new face of the anti-caste movement in UP after defeating the well established Samajwadi Party, BSP and BJP in Nagina, speaks about the legacy and future of Dalit leadership, need for national Dalit-Bahujan-Muslim consolidation and what's next for Azad Samaj Party.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to Outlook. My name is Rakhi Bose and I am with Chandrashekhar Azad Ravan.
00:05He has just returned to Delhi as an MP. He is Nageena's new MP.
00:09Congratulations, sir. How do you feel? You have come to Delhi this time.
00:14Before this, you had come as a protestor and a protestor. You had come as a revolutionary.
00:18This time, you have come as an MP in Delhi. Do you feel anything different?
00:22Nothing is different. I had responsibilities then and I have responsibilities today as well.
00:26There was a time when I had a responsibility on my shoulders.
00:33When my name was mentioned in the Times magazine that I am the only one in India who is one of the rising leaders.
00:39So, the Indian media made fun of me according to its character.
00:43But we had faith in ourselves and we proved it.
00:47Where all the parties, rich people, 100 years old parties, 50,000 years old parties,
00:52MPs, MLAs, resources, money, wealth,
00:58despite everything, they could not compete with us.
01:02And we won with a strong victory of more than 1.5 lakh votes.
01:05This is the situation that if someone works honestly and the public supports him,
01:10then no one can stop him from succeeding.
01:12In Uttar Pradesh, there have been a lot of shifts in the Delhi courts.
01:16This time, the Socialist Party has got votes.
01:18BSP has not got votes.
01:19In fact, the vote that was going on with BJP has not gone.
01:22Why do you think this shift has come?
01:24And what does the Dalit voter want to say about this?
01:28Look, the first thing is that the Dalit society is a very conscious society.
01:32And not just the Dalit, there has been a big shift in the people of the previous society.
01:35And it was not because of them, but because of the people of the India Alliance.
01:38Because they have been fighting the elections for a long time.
01:40For the past one and a half years, we have seen a very strong struggle among the people.
01:45Whether it is the issue of education, or the issue of need, or the issue of roaster,
01:49or the issue of SSCGD, or the issue of reservation,
01:53or the issue of caste discrimination.
01:55The Ajaad Samaj Party Bheem Army worked together to develop ideological power.
02:01The people of the India Alliance will be with us.
02:03This discussion went on for a long time.
02:05Then they came to us last time and did not support us.
02:08But we still did not get scared.
02:10We fought the first phase of the election.
02:12After that, we helped the opposition in stopping the BJP in all the seats.
02:18They may not have supported us,
02:20but we have fulfilled our responsibility for the protection of the constitution,
02:24and for the protection of democracy.
02:26And the result of that is that there was a very large-scale shift.
02:28This was not done on its own.
02:30The opposition should thank the people of the Ajaad Samaj Party Bheem Army,
02:34the people of our organization,
02:36whose help our organization did,
02:38and because of which the result of the BJP.
02:40And the people of the Alliance themselves agree that they did not believe that so many votes would come.
02:45Do you think this PDA has been successful according to their strategy?
02:49We will find out in the coming elections.
02:51How successful they are, how much people trust them,
02:53we will find out in the coming elections.
02:55I will tell you again,
02:57that the last time, in which Yadav, Patel, Khuswaj, Morya, Sakke,
03:03Aupal, Prajapati, Kassab, Saini,
03:05this is a society.
03:06Now this is an aware society.
03:08With their ideology, Buddha, Kabir, Nanak, Satgur Ravidas, Bhagwan Valmiki,
03:13their great men, Jyotiba Phule,
03:15Sahuji Maharaj, Okrambedkar,
03:17Mahamana Ram Subharma,
03:19Babu Jagadev Prasad Khuswaj, Jannay Kapoor,
03:22these are great men,
03:23Sant Rambi, Prajapati, Babu Sridhar Chaudhary,
03:25they are standing with their ideology.
03:27That is the impact.
03:28That is the reason,
03:29that the power of ideology is being generated in them.
03:31So they are not becoming religious slaves.
03:33That is why they are using their vote correctly.
03:35The reason is that the BJP had to face a big defeat in many places.
03:40Even the Prime Minister of the country won with very few votes.
03:43Many of his ministers won with more votes than him.
03:45You will see how big a change this is.
03:47So even religious places did not work this time.
03:50And the public voted on their issues.
03:52Unemployment,
03:53inflation,
03:54caste system,
03:55reservation,
03:56all the basic things,
03:57they voted on them.
03:58And the result is that
03:59this time when the Prime Minister of the country came to take an oath,
04:02before that,
04:03when he was talking to his people in the parliament,
04:05he was saluting the Indian constitution.
04:07So is a mandal 2.0 or a new mandal being formed?
04:10And if it is being formed,
04:11then what do you think is its leadership at a national level?
04:14The public is leading, not the opposition.
04:16The public is leading.
04:17The public voted for me.
04:18The public voted for them.
04:19The public is the opposition.
04:20And when the public is the opposition,
04:22there is a witness in India's very old history
04:25that big governments have fallen.
04:26This government was also close to it.
04:28If the alliance had shown a little bit of integrity,
04:30we would have fulfilled our responsibility.
04:32But if they had also fulfilled their responsibility
04:34and had not stopped us,
04:35then the result would have been something else.
04:36The alliance would have won 300,000 seats
04:38and the BJP would have remained below 200 seats.
04:41The BJP line would have died.
04:43There was a time when the entire Dalit community came together
04:46behind Kanchiram.
04:47After that, we saw that the leadership at a national level
04:49came from Mayawati.
04:51Do you think that now you are seeing yourself in a place
04:54where you can consolidate leadership at a national level?
04:58I will be able to consolidate.
05:00I believe in this.
05:01Because there is a very big organization with us.
05:03The Ajaad Samaj Party.
05:05But, Mr. Mayawati Kanchiram is our leader.
05:07She is our leader.
05:08She has worked a lot for the society.
05:11I cannot be like her.
05:12But I am struggling to fulfill her incomplete work.
05:16And I think that we will also succeed in this.
05:20Because the coming time, the society has become sensible.
05:23Take this as an example,
05:24I have also got a very big vote from the employees.
05:28And the conversations I have had with the employees
05:30have helped me a lot.
05:31They have understood my situation and voted for the alliance.
05:35This is a big help.
05:36When education moves on the path of society,
05:38it creates new opportunities.
05:40We are seeing these new opportunities.
05:42And I believe that it will increase in the future.
05:44It will not decrease.
05:45As an MP for Nagina,
05:47or for your area,
05:48what do you think is the first thing to do?
05:50First of all, I will try that in Nagina,
05:53there is a big problem of unemployment.
05:57In Maharashtra, Delhi, Punjab, Haryana,
06:00our people have to go from there.
06:01So I will try to build an industrial area here.
06:04And from there, employment is created.
06:07Along with that, there is Ganga there.
06:09A very big business of tourism can be connected with Ganga.
06:12So I will try to focus the government on that too.
06:16So that the people there can get employment easily.
06:18Secondly, there is no higher centre there.
06:21I will try to build a hospital like AIMS.
06:24So that the people of our area,
06:27when they are sick or have problems,
06:29can get the benefit of every centre.
06:30A lot of people know this.
06:31There is a problem of flood there.
06:33And the entire crop of farmers is destroyed by the flood.
06:35In the name of tourism, it is just a joke.
06:37The whole area, the road to Ganga from Uttarakhand.
06:41So I will try.
06:42Because it is a tourist attraction of Ganga.
06:44So I will try.
06:45For the problem of flood,
06:46the current government that has been formed,
06:48I will keep reminding them again and again.
06:51I will raise my question to them.
06:52So that they understand the pain of the farmers.
06:54And the damage caused by the flood.
06:56So that there is a permanent solution to this problem.
06:59This is a very big problem.
07:01Along with that, there is a problem of farmers.
07:03Which is a problem that has arisen in our area.
07:04Which has taken a lot of attention.
07:05There is a problem of level order.
07:07And there are all kinds of problems.
07:10There is a problem of cleaners in my area.
07:12So they have a bad job.
07:14They don't have a permanent job.
07:15They have to work on the contract.
07:17And whenever they want, people fire them.
07:19So I will try to get them permanent jobs.
07:21And in any way,
07:23I can bring happiness in their lives.
07:25I can get them a job.
07:27They get an old pension of Rs. 500.
07:29By increasing it, they get Rs. 5000.
07:31There are all kinds of things.
07:33I want to open an inter-college and a degree college for my sisters.
07:35My belief is that a university should be built there.
07:39A sports university should be built there.
07:40In rural areas.
07:41There is no shortage.
07:42But along with that,
07:43there should be a very good college-university.
07:46So that my sisters get a chance to get a good education.
07:49And my brothers too.
07:50And my agenda is to implement equal education all over the country.
07:53Whether it's a farmer's son or a laborer's son.
07:55Whether it's an industrialist's son.
07:56Everyone should get equal education and free education.
07:59So that they can stand on their own two feet.
08:01Education opens doors for you.
08:03And I will try to do all kinds of things.
08:05I will continue to do it.
08:07And at the national level,
08:08I will raise my voice against racism in the name of religion.
08:11For women's empowerment.
08:13And I will work very hard on women's empowerment.
08:16I will meet the officials and workers there.
08:18My sisters and daughters should be welcome there.
08:20If there is any violence in the name of caste or religion.
08:22And I would like to make it clear through your interview.
08:24That I will fight against any criminal of any caste or religion.
08:29If he commits a crime, I will help him get punished.
08:32And I will try to get the help of good officials and workers.
08:36And I will help them.
08:38Just one last question.
08:40We have seen that from time to time,
08:42Dalit Bahujan leadership comes.
08:44Young leaders come.
08:45They get support.
08:46Like Jignesh Mewani.
08:47He becomes a politician.
08:49But his impact is lost at a national level.
08:52So you as a new leader.
08:54As a front runner of this movement.
08:57What do you think?
08:59What should the leadership do?
09:01As you said yourself a while ago.
09:03There is 16% vote in Delhi.
09:05Which is not getting at this point.
09:07So what should we do?
09:08We are at a national level.
09:10We can't bring it to one side.
09:12I would like to touch you.
09:14You should study.
09:152023 Vidhan Sabha Elections of Madhya Pradesh.
09:17You will realize that in Madhya Pradesh.
09:19We lost by very few votes.
09:21Similarly, if you see us in Rajasthan.
09:23Between 5000, 7000, 11000.
09:26We lost many seats.
09:28We were on the 3rd number of 10-12 seats.
09:31We were on the 2nd number of many seats.
09:33And along with that.
09:36We are losing seats by very few margins.
09:38I am telling you this.
09:40Bheem Army's organization.
09:42Which is developing as Azaad Samaj Party.
09:44They are in many states.
09:46This is an example.
09:48That our movement is a national movement.
09:50We don't have a state movement.
09:52We have proven this.
09:54We had a new symbol.
09:56We got 74,000 votes in Rajasthan.
09:58In some places, 2 MLAs are made in 74,000.
10:01That's why I am telling you this.
10:03Azaad Samaj Party is doing a very good job.
10:05Bheem Army's youth.
10:07Missionary people.
10:09They are working very honestly.
10:11We are getting their support.
10:13And the way our educated workers.
10:15And the old missionaries.
10:17Who supported us.
10:19Our religious gurus.
10:21Those who believe in Bhagwan Valmiki.
10:23Those who believe in Ravidasji.
10:25Those who believe in Guru Nanak Devji.
10:27The Agarni of their Panth.
10:29They supported us.
10:31I thank all of them.
10:33With their support.
10:35Unity.
10:37And a new Samikand.
10:39Congress Alliance.
10:41Baspa.
10:43Nota.
10:45Bhajpati.
10:47We will try to make that Samikand.
10:49All over the country.
10:51A broad Samikand.
10:53We will move this movement.
10:55One of the biggest reasons.
10:57Is Nayak Pooja.
10:59We will make Nayak Pooja our movement.
11:01I am an ordinary party worker.
11:03I will work as an ordinary worker.
11:05And I will work hard.
11:07To fight the upcoming elections.
11:09We believe in this formula.
11:11We will succeed with this.
11:13We will see ASP ahead.
11:15Very soon.
11:17You will see ASP in Uttarakhand.
11:19Assembly and UP.
11:21Thank you.