At a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing on Tuesday, Sen. Jerry Moran (R-KS) questioned FBI Director Christopher Wray about funding for the FBI.
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NewsTranscript
00:00and reduced financial support for the FBI in our FY24 budget.
00:06It was really effectively held flat, which is a challenge
00:14in inflationary times.
00:18You request $85.4 million for the restoration
00:22of 270 positions related to national security
00:25and law enforcement.
00:27Is this your highest priority?
00:31The restoration of positions is our highest priority, yes.
00:35And if that was accomplished, if we were capable of doing that,
00:44the benefit of that is just what you described to Senator Reid,
00:47correct?
00:48Right.
00:49The goal would be to allow us to sustain
00:53the pace that was set with the 23 budget,
00:59because what's happened is the net effect of the 24 budget
01:02is to set us back $500 million because of the factors
01:05that you listed.
01:06So the key is to restore our operations
01:11so that we can continue to hum against all the things
01:13that I was listing off that Senator Reid and not
01:16set us backwards.
01:17And if that doesn't happen, then we
01:18start falling even further behind is the problem.
01:21Do you have a significant number
01:22of vacant positions already?
01:25We have some positions that are vacant.
01:27Our fill rate is actually higher than historically
01:31it has been at the FBI, which is a good thing.
01:34That's good news for America.
01:38So we're trying to kind of manage our way
01:40through the 24 cuts through a combination of attrition
01:46and how fast we're filling the vacant positions.
01:48We do have.
01:49But again, if it lasts, if what happened with 24 is replicated,
01:55then we're going to be in a real world of hurt.
01:57Is the FBI workforce, what's the age category?
02:00Is it aging or it's a young, are the people
02:04nearing retirement that work at the FBI?
02:07Well, we're coming off of the heels of a,
02:14you might call it a bit of a retirement bulge
02:16when you just look actuarially.
02:18So in other words, if you went back 20 plus years,
02:21there was a big hiring spree, if you will, post 9-11.
02:27And 18-11s, armed law enforcement agents
02:30in particular, in other words, the way the system works,
02:35if they have 20 years in service and they're 50 years or older,
02:38they're eligible to retire.
02:39So whenever you're looking at retirement age of the workforce,
02:43you've got to go back 20 plus years
02:46and see what was happening then.
02:47And so we're coming off of a bit of a bookend of that group.
02:53So it's starting to level off.
02:54It's the last time I looked at it.
02:57So we're not in a big retirement bulge right now anymore.
03:01So that's part of why it's an issue.
03:03Director, I mentioned in my opening statement
03:05the southern border and the challenges
03:07that we've had at the border.
03:11I mentioned a member of ISIS.
03:13I mentioned a NBC News report about an individual
03:17that was on the terrorist watch list that was released.
03:20I recognize that the primary responsibility implicates
03:23the failures of the Department of Homeland Security.
03:26But the FBI terrorist screening center
03:29is the primary federal entity responsible for national
03:32security screening and for facilitating
03:35the sharing of information across government.
03:38Do these cases reflect a breakdown in our efforts
03:41to ensure that all government partners have
03:43full, actionable information they need to protect
03:47our citizens from terrorism?
03:50So I'm not sure I can discuss specific examples.
03:54But let me try to get at your question this way.
03:58So certainly, we have seen over the last five to six years
04:02an increase in the number of known or suspected terrorists,
04:06in other words, watch-listed subjects attempting
04:10to cross the border.
04:13And that is of concern.
04:15And that's where there's a lash-up between the TSC and CBP
04:20at the border that I think, in general, worked pretty well.
04:23The bigger problem, the bigger problem, in my view,
04:27is twofold.
04:28One, individuals who, when they come in,
04:33are either armed with fake documents
04:37or snuck in in some way or, or, and this
04:39is very important, individuals for whom there's not
04:43enough derogatory information in the intelligence community
04:49to watch-list them yet.
04:52So let me just unpack that a little bit,
04:53because this is an important point,
04:55because it kind of goes to what Senator Collins
04:56was asking me about, and it may relate a little bit
05:00to your other hat on the Senate Intelligence Committee.
05:04So as we collect, collectively, across the intelligence
05:08community and with our partners,
05:09less information about foreign terrorists overseas,
05:13there's less information to be had about who the people
05:16coming into this country are, which then means.
05:18Would you say that sentence again?
05:20I missed the first part of the sentence.
05:22So the way I look at it is, as we have less collection
05:27overseas against foreign terrorism,
05:30there's less sources of information to inform people,
05:34about people coming in.
05:36So in other words, somebody could be coming in
05:38who should be watch-listed, but isn't.
05:40And it's not because of a breakdown between CBP
05:44and the TSC, it's because the information
05:46that should have told everybody that this person
05:49is a threat has not yet been unearthed
05:53by whatever intelligence agency it is out there.
05:56Because it's not just the FBI that puts people
05:58on the watch-list, we're getting information
06:00from lots of other agencies.
06:02So as we pull out of Afghanistan, for example,
06:05you get less and less information about
06:07whether somebody from Afghanistan is actually a threat.
06:11And so some of the cases that I have seen
06:13that concern me are situations where somebody comes
06:15into the United States, it's not because there was
06:17a breakdown between CBP and the TSC,
06:20it's because they weren't watch-listed at the time,
06:24but in hindsight, they should have been watch-listed
06:26because information was later developed
06:28that says, uh-oh, this person is a problem.
06:31You see what I'm saying there?
06:33That's a much bigger concern, in my view.
06:37And so we really need to be focusing
06:39on how we can try to address that
06:41with the rest of the intelligence community,
06:43with our partners, and so forth.
06:45When that happens, when we find somebody
06:47who's here in the United States who we now then know
06:50this person needs to be put on the watch-list,
06:52then we use our Joint Terrorism Task Forces
06:56to go out and try to find the person,
06:58work with our state and local partners,
06:59we have the backstop of 800,000 sworn law enforcement,
07:03et cetera, but that to me is a bigger concern
07:05than the number of KSTs.
07:07Director, just a brief follow-up.
07:08Is there a delay in timing once someone is known,
07:11it's known that they should be on the watch-list,
07:13is there a delay before it's known
07:15across government agencies?
07:18I don't know about delay.
07:19I mean, there's an interagency process.
07:21How long does it take?
07:22I think it varies, is the short answer.
07:24I mean, it's not just the FBI can snap its fingers
07:28and put somebody on the list.
07:29There's an interagency, very rigorous process
07:31to protect civil liberties and other things
07:33to put somebody on the watch-list,
07:35but once they're on the watch-list,
07:37there's pretty much instantaneous notification
07:40to the relevant parties.