No argument against flesh consumption || Acharya Prashant, in conversation (2021)

Acharya Prashant

‍♂️ Want to meet Acharya Prashant? Be a part of the Live Sessions: https://acharyaprashant.org/hi/enquir...  ⚡ Want Acharya Prashant’s regular updates? Join WhatsApp Channel: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029Va6Z...   Want to read Acharya Prashant's Books? Get Free Delivery: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/books?...   Want to accelerate Acharya Prashant’s work? Contribute: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/contri...   Want to work with Acharya Prashant? Apply to the Foundation here: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/hiring...  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~  Video Information: 07.12.2020, Interview Session, Rishikesh, Uttrakhand  Context: ~ Does killing by a lion and killing by a man a same thing? ~ Does carnivores animal have choice to not to kill? ~ How killing any animal affect human consciousness? ~ Why should one turn vegan?  ~ What is the relationship between veganism and spirituality? ~ How veganism is related to compassion?  Music Credits: Milind Date ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Transcript

00:00 So, since the last 7-8 years I have very actively been involved in animal rescue because I relate

00:10 to their faces and their suffering more than anything else.

00:13 So what is, we all know the condition of animals, how dismal, how torturous.

00:25 We know about Jallikattu, we know about these kind of mad animal spots, brutal spots, dog

00:35 bites and bull fights and stuff.

00:37 So how do we resolve all this?

00:42 How do we resolve this?

00:44 What's your take?

00:50 Because I have been actively been there rescuing and feeding and taking care and stuff.

00:55 And it's a massive juggernaut and sometimes depressing also to see how it is right from

01:05 the slaughter to, you know, I mean everybody in my family is a non-vegetarian except for

01:11 me.

01:12 So, every time they all come over and you know, so there's this debate every time.

01:19 So you know how do we, again I know it does boil down to them.

01:25 It's very simple.

01:30 The way our bodies are, we can take in animal flesh.

01:38 The fact is there is nothing in your body that does not want animal flesh.

01:50 You can bring up a child on 60-70% meat and fish and egg and this kind of diet and the

02:02 child can grow up into a physically strong and mentally active human being.

02:10 It's very possible.

02:13 So Prakriti, this physical nature has no objection to humans eating flesh, just as Prakriti has

02:26 no objection to a lion killing a deer for food.

02:35 We may keep saying, oh it is not good this that, forget it.

02:43 Meat eaters in general you may find are sturdier, taller, all those things.

02:50 Yes, of course, we know that meats are not good for the body.

02:57 We also know the health benefits of veganism.

03:00 We know all those things, but still the majority of the world consumes flesh copiously and

03:11 is still more or less healthy.

03:15 If you look at Nobel Prize winners, more than 90% of them would be flesh eaters.

03:20 So it's not as if they are just doing physically well, they are doing materially and intellectually

03:28 well as well.

03:33 And if you compare non-meat eaters, vegetarians or vegans to flesh eaters, you may even find

03:44 that the flesh eaters are more prosperous.

03:48 The West is more prosperous and the West is largely meat eating.

03:55 So there is no material argument against flesh consumption.

04:02 First of all, let's get that straight.

04:03 You cannot convince someone of health benefits, you cannot convince someone of prosperity,

04:10 you cannot convince someone of mental health, all those arguments have very little weight

04:18 and that's why those arguments have largely failed.

04:22 You go and tell someone that meat eating is not good for you and the doctors say that,

04:28 well that's true.

04:30 In one particular position the doctor will tell you avoid red meat, in another position

04:35 the same doctor will tell you eggs are very good for you, oh this kid is underweight,

04:39 give him chicken soup.

04:41 So medical science is quite equivocal on that.

04:51 You cannot very unambiguously declare that medical science is against flesh consumption

05:01 because it is not.

05:07 What is it then that would make a person quit harassing animals?

05:18 Whether in the form of jelly kattu or a leather belt or a shiny purse or a fur coat or milk

05:31 tea or of course flesh or zoos, or pets or so many other forms of exploitation.

05:45 Or even the things that we do to stray dogs, what would convince a person to not do all

05:54 those things?

05:55 You cannot have, remember, any material argument, yes there are a lot of material arguments,

06:01 of course I know, I have been into this since long, but none of those material arguments

06:08 clinch the day for you, they are not decisive.

06:12 They can make you think, but they will not force you into submission.

06:19 You cannot have a final argument that you present to a flesh eater and he will turn

06:26 vegetarian in a flash, that is not going to happen.

06:31 They have such creative ways of arguments.

06:34 And many of their arguments are factually not misplaced when they say those things,

06:41 they are factually not misplaced.

06:46 So what is it that makes a person just do away with all this nonsense and violence?

07:01 The argument cannot be material, the argument has to be related to your identity as a suffering

07:15 consciousness.

07:18 When you realize who you are, then you will not do things that hurt you.

07:33 I am suffering and I am suffering because I do not love myself enough, had I loved myself

07:38 enough I would have taken care of myself.

07:42 I am suffering in the inner way, the inner way, that animal is so much like me, that

07:52 animal is conscious, so much like me, so much like me.

07:59 If I can exploit that animal, if I can wreck suffering on that animal, I can do the same

08:08 to myself.

08:11 The more I am violent towards that animal, the more I am violent towards consciousness

08:21 itself, because remember, it is a mark of low consciousness to consider consciousness

08:31 as fragmented.

08:33 Please get the flow of the whole thing.

08:38 I am suffering because my consciousness is lowly, it is a characteristic of lowly consciousness

08:46 to think that my consciousness is different from your consciousness.

08:54 The very otherness is a characteristic of low consciousness.

09:00 So I am already suffering because my consciousness is low, that is making me live in hell and

09:08 because of my low consciousness I think that that dog or that goat or that chicken is a

09:16 separate, totally isolated, totally entity that I can slaughter without any repercussions

09:24 on my own well-being.

09:25 It is a mark of my own lowness.

09:30 Now if I slaughter that, I am just extending, reinforcing my lowness, therefore my suffering.

09:40 It is a mark of high consciousness to understand that consciousness is not fragmented.

09:49 The thing within that bird is the same as the thing within me.

09:53 Not only the same, it is one, therefore if I hurt the thing within the bird, I am hurting

10:00 the thing within me.

10:01 I don't want to hurt myself, therefore I am not going to hurt the bird.

10:06 Very good.

10:08 So only when you are greatly interested in your own inner well-being, will you quit flesh

10:15 consumption or animal harassment or cruelty.

10:20 Otherwise you will continue and you will have a thousand reasons, several of them very difficult

10:27 to argue against.

10:34 Realization of one's own true identity and depth in wisdom, this is the only way.

10:47 Recognition of environment and cruelty towards all living forms is going to stop or reduced.

10:57 Otherwise it's going to continue.

11:02 What is bad is that even those who are vegetarian are usually vegetarian for very flimsy reasons.

11:09 I am born in a Brahmin family or a Jain family or some other reason, therefore I don't take

11:15 to eat meat.

11:16 Now this is such a shallow reason, it will just yield any time, yield to pressures, yield

11:23 to circumstances, yield to company.

11:31 I am a college going boy and it's a thing in my modern circle to be vegan, therefore

11:41 I am vegan.

11:43 Without having any spiritual core, I am vegan.

11:45 This kind of veganism is going to be very short-lived, it's not going to work, plus

11:50 that fellow is going to remain violent in spite of being vegan and if you are violent,

11:57 then that violent is going to seep into your relationship with animals in some way or the

12:04 other.

12:05 You may not be an active flesh consumer, but you would still be contributing to animal

12:09 cruelty in some way or the other because the violence within you has not abated.

12:15 So the only way we can address this violence in the relationship between man and animals

12:25 or man and woman, man and man, this entire issue of relationship is by addressing the

12:34 question of identity, unless we realize who we are, if we think of ourselves as men, women,

12:41 rich, poor, young, old, we will stay very distant from the truth.

12:50 Doesn't matter what your gender is, how much money you have, which caste you come from,

12:57 you and I are the same because you have sleepless nights, I have sleepless nights, you have

13:04 nightmares, I have nightmares, you do not know what you want, I do not know what I want,

13:13 unless we realize we are all one in our suffering, unless we look into a dog's eyes and see our

13:22 own pain, it will be very difficult to stop us from hurling a stone at that dog.

13:36 You have got this chicken and you have the knife in your hand, look at the chicken and

13:42 if you cannot see something that's just from within you, you just cannot see almost your

13:55 own face there, if you cannot see that that being is as much afraid of death as you are,

14:11 you will slaughter, you will slaughter.

14:19 Morality and idealism are too small to work against ignorance, ignorance is a mighty thing,

14:31 the only thing mightier than ignorance is the light of truth, Maya is no lightweight,

14:39 she trumps everything except the truth, the reality, if we want to counter Maya through

14:49 moralistic arguments and these modern ideologies and such things, we will fail.

15:05 The person is a vegan but he wants a big house for himself, the person is a vegan and he

15:12 wants a big house for himself and of course in the house there is going to be no leather,

15:17 no fur and the house is big, hello sir, how are you vegan, where is all the electricity

15:24 going to come from, don't you know what causes the destruction of forests, you are indirectly

15:31 contributing to the destruction of forests and you call yourself vegan, how?

15:39 The fellow is a vegan but believes that climate change is a hoax, what kind of veganism is

15:48 this?

16:00 We will remain cruel because there is nothing in our physical nature that forbids cruelty,

16:11 in fact whenever I speak about animal cruelty, people retort by saying that, but even the

16:21 lion kills the deer and that's quite a revelation because that fellow is equating himself with

16:31 the animal, with the predator, in Prakriti we all are predators, even the deer is a predator,

16:40 even the deer is a predator.

16:43 So the fellow is saying, I am not a conscious being, I am an animal being, I am just like

16:51 the lion and if the lion can kill, I too can kill, as long as your identity is that of

16:56 the physical being which is the animal being, you will kill, only when you realize that

17:03 you are not going to be satisfied remaining the animal being, will you acknowledge that

17:11 you are the conscious being beyond the animal, then you will say I will not do what the animal

17:18 does, because doing what the animal does is not going to satisfy me, what the animal does

17:24 is for the animal, I am not the animal, therefore I cannot follow the ways of the animal, I

17:30 will do what a suffering consciousness must do and a suffering consciousness can hardly

17:37 kill and expect freedom from suffering, I am suffering, I am waiting outside the doctor's

17:47 cabin and what do I do there, I shoot lizards, the doctor is not going to be happy with that,

18:00 so if we are all a part of the same consciousness, so when Ramana Maharshi says that there are

18:14 no others or when Osho says, "Man ki aakanshaon ka vistaar hi sansaar hai", how do we, I

18:25 understand that all you can do is be a good human and try to inculcate all the facts of

18:37 consciousness into your being and around wherever you are, how do you reconcile when these two

18:44 stalwarts say these kind of things, I mean if I have to tell it to a 5 year old, I will

18:55 say, the 5 year old probably already understands it intuitively.

19:02 Or say an 11 year old.

19:05 Depends on how badly distorted the 11 year old is, so it's not difficult to help them

19:14 see that thing, they talk to dogs, they play with rabbits.

19:23 They are living it, they are already living it.

19:27 They don't go to the rabbit and wriggle their necks, you wouldn't have seen a 5 or 11 year

19:34 old doing that, because there is already an innate realization that the stuff and me are

19:43 the same, in fact in children's shows or comics or cartoons, you will always find animals

19:50 talking, this anthropomorphization itself suggests that kids see the same consciousness

20:05 in animals as they do in themselves.

20:07 Or nature or anywhere else.

20:09 Or in nature, even trees have names, even toys have names.

20:16 So it's not that difficult to see, it's just that when your mind is dominated by greed

20:24 and lust and hunger, then you choose not to see these obvious things.

20:30 I want to kill that goat because of my ideology or hunger or religious values, whatever, some

20:37 nonsense, I will choose not to see what's there in the goat's eyes.

20:43 It's a choice made, it's a deliberate choice towards self-delusion.

20:50 If I look into the goat's eyes, I cannot slaughter the goat, therefore I will look elsewhere

20:54 and just.

20:55 That's why many of my relatives also say that I can't see while cutting, but when I don't

21:04 see while cutting, I eat it.

21:06 This is, you see this, this is, you are cheating yourself in the worst possible way and you

21:19 expect life to be kind to you, you expect not to be cheated by others.

21:25 If you have grown such expertise in deception, be prepared to be deceived now.

21:34 Talking about these random happenings, as you said that, you know, "ja kahan gala tum

21:44 kaati ho, fir wo kaate tumhaar", Kabir said it very rightly.

21:48 [MUSIC PLAYING]

21:51 [music]

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