One Millennial Entrepreneur's Advice For Keeping Young Workers

Forbes

Kate Kennedy, entrepreneur, author and host of "Be There In Five," spoke to Forbes about her new book "One In A Millennial," what lessons are being passed from Millennials to Gen Z about the work force, how technology varies between generations, and what executives need to do to keep their young employees.  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00 (upbeat music)

00:02 - Hello and welcome.

00:04 I'm Sarah Mueller, a reporter with Forbes.

00:07 And today I'm joined by entrepreneur,

00:10 podcast host, best-selling author, Kate Kennedy.

00:14 Thank you so much for joining me, Kate.

00:16 - Thank you for having me.

00:17 I'm so excited to be here.

00:19 - Well, I wanna give a little bit of background

00:21 because not only are you the host of podcast,

00:24 Be There in Five,

00:26 but you also literally wrote the book

00:28 on millennials this year called "One in a Millennial."

00:31 I read it, or I guess listened to it in 24 hours.

00:34 And I want you to know that I am on the cusp

00:37 of being a millennial.

00:38 I'm a zillennial, like I'm a 1996.

00:40 So I was a little worried it wouldn't relate to me,

00:42 but oh my goodness, I kept on saying,

00:45 I was listening to it in my car and I'm thinking,

00:47 yes, yes, thank you, somebody said it.

00:50 So before we get started into like the millennials

00:53 and the workforce,

00:54 which is what I really wanna talk about today,

00:56 let's start with you giving a brief explanation

00:58 about why you wrote this book.

01:00 - Yeah, so as you mentioned,

01:04 I have a podcast, Be There in Five,

01:06 and I've been doing it for six years.

01:07 And over the past six years,

01:09 it's become such a focus group for what women

01:12 in kind of my demo are thinking about or caring about.

01:16 And I kind of have the focus group of a lifetime.

01:18 And I realized that like millennials are such,

01:21 there's such a departure from what we see in headlines

01:25 that we're lazy, entitled, living in our parents' basement.

01:27 No one on the inside identifies with those tropes.

01:30 I think millennials are really misunderstood

01:31 because we grew up in a world that no longer exists.

01:34 And a big part of what I wanted to explore in my book

01:36 was kind of the minutiae and day-to-day and lore

01:39 and nostalgia of being a millennial

01:41 that has nothing to do with the headlines

01:42 about how we killed every major economic sector or industry

01:45 or are these kind of petulant children that never grow up.

01:49 I was like, this is what one millennial's experience

01:52 is like from the inside.

01:53 And that was part of it to provide a more accurate depiction

01:57 of what matters to us.

01:59 But the second piece was kind of more generationally agnostic

02:02 and just themes of girlhood

02:04 and how we go through our millennial existence

02:07 and love all of this pop culture and love the zeitgeist

02:10 and the iconography of a given time.

02:12 But then we're kind of told it's not sophisticated

02:15 or important and we should like certain things

02:17 to be taken seriously, especially as women.

02:19 Women's interests are often mocked and undermined.

02:22 And I kind of wanted to like make it a celebration

02:25 of all of the millennial minutiae like of our lives

02:30 that maybe we wrote off as insignificant

02:33 or memories that we were told we were being dramatic

02:37 and kind of revisit, like I say, be kind and rewind

02:40 and go back through the things that matter to us

02:42 and argue for their importance.

02:44 - There were so many aspects of this book that I loved.

02:48 And as you mentioned, millennials have been blamed

02:50 for destroying cereal and the beer industry

02:54 and the diamond industry and all that.

02:55 So like it kind of is doom and gloom.

02:57 And I also love how you point out that Gen Z is quick

03:00 to make fun of us as well.

03:01 Like this was a quick turnaround

03:03 of the cringe-worthy moments.

03:05 But tell me, is it all doom and gloom for millennials,

03:08 especially in the workforce, especially in the economy?

03:11 - You know, I think what we have to keep in mind

03:14 is every generation's going to, has always, I'm sure,

03:18 and will always have hot takes about the ones ahead of them

03:21 and behind them.

03:22 And I think the wars are a bit overblown for clickbait, one.

03:26 But two, I think that millennials are in a unique position

03:30 because I think we're marked by two things,

03:32 being behind and being the first online.

03:34 And yeah, it is a little weird

03:35 that we built these social networks

03:37 that Gen Z got logged into and made fun of us on

03:40 'cause we were the first people to experiment

03:43 with even creating an online identity.

03:45 And I think that having access at our fingertips

03:48 to the information age created this world

03:51 where it's very different from the one we grew up in.

03:54 We planned our dreams and our lives

03:56 before we had access to all of this information.

03:58 My job didn't exist when I was planning my dreams.

04:00 So I think that millennials seem disconnected

04:02 and a lot of the tropey things about us

04:04 have more to do with growing up

04:05 in a world that no longer exists

04:06 and having all these opportunities

04:10 that came along with the internet,

04:11 which we kind of pioneered with our adolescence.

04:15 And I think that that's created kind of,

04:18 well, there's a lot of different things I could focus on,

04:20 but I think one thing that is so very millennial

04:23 is find a job you love, you'll never work another day.

04:27 There's less of a focus on duty and commitment and loyalty

04:32 because we don't have pensions.

04:33 We don't have the employee benefits

04:36 that warrant that loyalty.

04:37 So you can call us a job hopper all you want,

04:39 but why would I be loyal to a company

04:40 that has no incentive to be loyal to me?

04:43 We graduated during the worst financial crisis

04:45 since the great depression.

04:46 Most millennials' point of entry into the workforce

04:48 was not finding a job, massive layoffs.

04:51 Then there was the boom of the gig economy

04:55 and we could monetize our hobbies.

04:57 We could make ad hoc income.

04:59 We kind of took advantage of opportunities, I think,

05:03 that are unique to our generation

05:04 and paired with us not really having the company loyalty

05:07 or benefits of prior generations.

05:09 I think it makes sense why we come across

05:10 a bit more flaky or job hoppy.

05:12 And it's not all doom and gloom, it's just different.

05:14 And I think different makes people uncomfortable.

05:17 - Absolutely.

05:18 I'm glad you brought up the financial crisis of '08

05:20 because when I talked to my sister who graduated in 2007

05:25 and entered right during that time,

05:27 that was setting the tone for an entire generation

05:32 of how they were going to interact with the workforce.

05:34 And so now that we look at Gen Z,

05:38 especially flipping from what millennials experience

05:42 into Gen Z, what do you think we're maybe passing down

05:46 to the generation below us?

05:48 - I think we created a lot of platforms

05:53 that democratize fame and influence

05:57 that has created a whole new career category

06:00 that is still at a point of nascence

06:03 that I don't even think we know what it looks like long-term.

06:05 I don't know what my own job looks like in 10 years.

06:07 So it's kind of interesting

06:09 where there's never been more opportunities

06:11 at a younger age to go a non-traditional route.

06:14 And I think we pioneered this,

06:18 but I don't know what it looks like now

06:19 if you're in high school and you're like,

06:20 well, I don't wanna go to college,

06:21 I wanna be a YouTube star.

06:23 It's almost like the options are ever expanding

06:26 by nature of the internet and social media.

06:29 I just hope what we pass down is like,

06:34 I think we're all getting older

06:35 and realizing the immortality of the internet.

06:38 So while you may want to be authentic

06:39 when you're 15 online,

06:41 do you really want that immortalized

06:43 and revisiting it when you're in your 40s?

06:45 I don't know.

06:46 I think we, the crew with the point and shoots

06:49 in the frat basements,

06:51 uploading everything we ever did to Facebook,

06:52 had to learn that the hard way.

06:54 - Absolutely.

06:55 And I just wanna piggyback off of that just a second,

06:58 because obviously one of the big things

07:00 that we talk about nowadays

07:01 is what can come back and burn you,

07:03 especially when you are employed

07:06 and maybe what you've done on the internet

07:08 does not align with the company values.

07:10 What do you think is kind of the lesson being learned

07:14 with the immortality of the internet?

07:18 - You know, it's kind of hard to say

07:21 because it's like, it's good that in recent years,

07:25 there's been a pivot to honesty, to authenticity,

07:29 sometimes at the expense of curated vulnerability,

07:31 I'd say.

07:31 But, you know, one of the things

07:33 that was hard about being a millennial is like,

07:35 I don't think we grew up with a lot of tools

07:36 or information about mental health.

07:38 And I think the way we grew up and first used the internet,

07:41 it was all a show, it was all,

07:44 let me show everybody how great I'm doing,

07:45 the goal was like popularity and visibility and brand names

07:48 and uniqueness was not valued in the way it is now.

07:51 And what I hope comes from this shift

07:55 to authenticity over aspiration

07:58 is that at the very least people are out there being honest

08:01 and that'll hopefully stand the test of time,

08:04 even if they change as people.

08:07 I think that we were kind of doing a lot of stuff for show

08:09 or being more snarky for sport,

08:11 thinking it was comedic or sharp,

08:13 but people are just out here being honest

08:16 and sharing about their struggles,

08:18 which is really powerful, especially when you're young.

08:21 So it's like, I would never wanna discourage people

08:23 to do that because I think that's a beautiful part

08:25 about the internet, but no, I don't know how it will feel

08:28 when you have all that still out there later on.

08:31 But I do think this is something Stephanie McNeil,

08:34 a reporter at Glamour told me when she was like,

08:36 it's almost like if everyone's on the internet, nobody is.

08:39 Because we were the first to do it,

08:42 we kind of stand out as these irresponsible people

08:45 with all these crazy Facebook albums titled

08:47 after OTT's top 40 songs.

08:49 But now if everyone's on the internet,

08:51 is anyone really standing out?

08:52 Is everyone gonna have so many problems

08:54 with their past behavior?

08:55 Like, will it really matter?

08:56 Like, I ultimately hope we just accept

08:58 that people are allowed to evolve, honestly.

09:01 - I love in the book, you describe kind

09:03 of the technological advancements as yes,

09:06 millennials grew up with the internet,

09:09 but we grew up with a clunky version of the internet.

09:11 Whereas, you know, Gen Z kind of got a more polished version.

09:16 How do you think that differentiates Gen Z from millennials,

09:20 especially in the eyes of maybe an employer or skill sets?

09:24 - Okay, I think we are so resourceful and scrappy

09:28 because of the character building.

09:30 Like, I think the millennial, you know,

09:31 in my day, I walked miles in the snow,

09:33 is like, your skin just gets tougher

09:35 when a CD takes eight hours to buffer.

09:37 Like, the way we waited full work days

09:41 to burn one playlist,

09:44 it really is a level of character building.

09:45 The streamers will simply never understand

09:47 that I think we should be really proud of ourselves for.

09:50 And I think that Gen Z can be critical of millennials

09:54 in terms of like, you know, we like taking Buzzfeed quizzes

09:56 or saying what our Hogwarts house is,

09:58 or we like personality type stuff that groups us

10:01 and puts us in boxes.

10:02 But I think a lot of times our pop cultural obsession

10:05 stem from that time period where we had to be so devoted

10:08 to the things we like to enjoy them, not live.

10:12 So whether it was taping shows on VHS

10:14 and going out of our way,

10:15 sitting there waiting for that CD to buffer,

10:18 going, you know, through great lengths

10:19 to curate the perfect songs on an iPod to play at a party,

10:22 like, the less options you have,

10:25 the more creative you are in pursuing those interests.

10:28 So I think a lot of the reason

10:29 I have such strong pop cultural memories

10:31 is because the difficulty of access,

10:33 like going to a blockbuster with a sleepover crew in tow

10:36 and trying to achieve consensus in the new release VHS aisle,

10:40 it was a rite of passage.

10:41 It was not pretty.

10:42 It was Real Housewives knock down drag out.

10:44 But eventually we had to figure it out.

10:46 Now you can just stream whatever the hell it is you like.

10:48 People can go in different rooms.

10:49 We had to problem solve,

10:50 and I think we're resourceful for it.

10:53 - I have to ask you because TikTok

10:54 is such a massive conversation right now,

10:56 especially facing a ban.

10:58 What do you see the future of technology being

11:01 if this is how we're gonna move forward

11:04 with regulations facing social media

11:07 as the generation who,

11:08 we didn't have much restrictions on anything.

11:11 I mean, community guidelines, who?

11:14 But what do you think the future of,

11:16 especially the creator economy,

11:17 as we look down the line here with TikTok

11:20 possibly being removed from the United States?

11:25 - You know, TikTok for me personally would be such a loss.

11:28 I think that it is the first platform

11:32 that was content focused and not people focused.

11:37 So you're following what people think and what they say.

11:41 You don't have to know about a person and follow them

11:43 to have access to those things they think and say.

11:46 And I think that the world changed a lot

11:48 in having that content pushed out to us over the years,

11:52 especially during such a critical time like the pandemic.

11:55 Going forward, at least from the creator side,

11:57 so I think it's net positive largely on the consumer side.

12:02 On the creator side, I think the volatility of TikTok

12:07 in terms of us not really ever knowing

12:09 if the ban's actually gonna go through

12:11 and it being on the floor so many times,

12:13 is people are going to,

12:15 creators are going to flock to mediums

12:17 where they have ownership over their content,

12:19 over their audience,

12:21 and where they don't have to rely on the whims

12:23 of a platform's algorithm to perform and thus get paid.

12:28 So a big reason why I've doubled down on my podcast

12:32 or people start newsletters is you want

12:35 to own your audience,

12:35 you wanna have access to your audience

12:37 even if it's the third party folds.

12:38 And I think the algorithmic changes

12:40 a lot of these platforms have exhibited

12:43 in recent years are so unfavorable to the creators

12:45 that are the backbone of their business model

12:47 that it's kind of disheartening.

12:49 So I feel two ways.

12:50 I think there need to be a lot of changes

12:52 as a creator to feel fairly compensated

12:54 and feel supported by these algorithms.

12:56 And I think as a consumer,

12:57 the democratization of ideas is ultimately a positive thing.

13:00 - You know, your journey, as I read in the book,

13:04 was very unique as how you got here in your career.

13:08 You kind of started in corporate America, if I'm correct,

13:11 and then you moved on and decided to do a doormat business,

13:16 if I'm correct.

13:16 And then obviously opportunities sprouted from there.

13:20 You've had an untraditional route.

13:22 And earlier in this conversation,

13:23 we talked a little bit about millennials wanting to,

13:26 or even Gen Z wanting to create

13:29 or monetize off of their hobbies.

13:32 And so as we watch a lot of businesses try

13:35 and negotiate ways to work with creators,

13:39 whether that's social media creators,

13:41 whether that's streaming creators or podcast creators,

13:46 what do you have to say to those corporations

13:49 or businesses or executives about working with creators

13:52 in the creator economy?

13:54 - I think that anytime I've done brand deals

14:00 or worked with companies,

14:03 I've always felt like they need to trust the creators more,

14:06 that they know their audience

14:07 and they can make content that's suitable for their audience.

14:09 And I think that creatively,

14:13 brands get in their own way,

14:14 demanding something falls within the parameters

14:17 of a certain scope of work or a certain project.

14:20 And it completely flops

14:21 because it's not authentic to the creator.

14:24 Like you have to leverage why people love

14:26 and follow that person

14:28 and kind of abandon your blanket messaging for the campaign,

14:31 I think, to make a really successful

14:33 influencer marketing campaign.

14:35 And I think that like,

14:36 we've seen a lot of the very millennial D to C companies

14:39 really support nontraditional mediums like podcasting

14:42 or like influencers and get really creative

14:44 with their ads.

14:45 But I think some of the bigger brands,

14:46 the bigger CPG companies,

14:47 like the heavy hitters in the TV and radio

14:50 and online ad world are hesitant

14:52 to kind of take the red tape down

14:55 to not be optimizing everything cross campaign,

14:58 cross platform so much.

15:00 And I just really think they need to be comfortable

15:03 trusting their creators a bit more

15:04 because it shows if you have fun with it.

15:06 And I don't know,

15:07 I think the ads can be a little bit Dale and stringent

15:10 if they aren't true to the creator's voice.

15:14 - Now, we talked about this a little bit earlier

15:16 in the conversation as well,

15:17 which is that, how do you get an employee,

15:21 especially around our age to stay loyal to a company?

15:24 I've worked for companies where people will stay there

15:27 for 20 years,

15:28 almost their whole career sometimes.

15:31 And so what is your message to executives

15:34 who are looking to keep employees who are our age

15:37 or Gen Z for more than just two to three years?

15:43 - You know, I think for the brilliant work

15:46 of Anne Helen Peterson,

15:47 millennial burnout is very, very real.

15:49 And we kind of entered the workforce in a time

15:51 that's like, you're lucky to have a job,

15:52 you're lucky to be here.

15:54 And I think that we worked many years

15:56 kind of exhaustively trying to make up for that time

15:58 that many of us were very affected by the economic changes

16:01 and or if you monetize one of your passions,

16:05 there's a level of burnout where

16:07 I think the most attractive thing now

16:09 to a lot of millennials is to be treated as a whole person,

16:12 to not be a workhorse, to not just be an employee,

16:15 but things like paid family leave,

16:18 encouraging people to take their vacation days,

16:20 like allowing people to go offline at night.

16:22 These are things that should be the norm,

16:24 but I think in rise and grind,

16:26 like hustle, girl boss America,

16:28 we all got very distorted

16:30 and what it means to work hard and be loyal.

16:33 And I think that the ultimate display of like,

16:35 I value you as an employee is saying,

16:38 I see you as a whole person who needs a balanced life.

16:41 And that's ultimately what will make you show up

16:43 as your best self to work.

16:44 Do I think that's realistic?

16:45 Probably not.

16:46 But I do think that there's an ethical way

16:48 we can do this under capitalism.

16:49 And some companies are really getting it right.

16:53 And as a new mom, especially,

16:54 I just so see the value of paid leave

16:56 and wish that was a more regular thing

16:59 happening in this country.

17:01 - Now, before I let you go,

17:02 I wanna flip the script a little bit.

17:04 What is the one thing you want millennials

17:07 or even Gen Z to take out of your book,

17:10 a one in a millennial?

17:11 - I kind of end the book,

17:14 in the book I talk about something called

17:15 the love marriage baby carriage pipeline.

17:16 And this is maybe more specific to women

17:18 than millennials overall.

17:20 But I think we're talked to our whole lives,

17:23 young women are like about who you'll marry

17:26 and about having kids

17:26 and about nothing to do with your identity.

17:28 These are things that involve who you are to somebody else.

17:32 And I kind of end the book by saying like,

17:35 who you are as one millennial without a plus ahead of it,

17:38 or just you on your own as one millennial are enough.

17:43 Because we really like think we can gamify life

17:47 and have it be formulaic.

17:49 And I think we grew up thinking,

17:51 okay, I'll get this job and then I'll get married

17:53 and I'll have kids.

17:54 And then you've realized that these are all functions

17:56 of your choices and chances

17:58 and we can't control these things.

17:59 Yet we often feel such shame for when we,

18:02 life hasn't turned out exactly as we expected.

18:04 And I wanted people to go easy on themselves,

18:06 understanding what the pop cultural backdrop was,

18:09 what roadblocks millennials have been up against

18:11 and all of these different things that like,

18:13 you should leverage to go easier on yourself

18:15 because a lot of the reasons

18:16 we're a little bit behind relative to other generations,

18:19 whether it's in childbearing

18:20 and average age of marriage or in wealth building,

18:25 there are good reasons for it.

18:26 We're not lazy and entitled and terrible,

18:29 we're just a product of our time.

18:31 And I wanted people to be proud of who they were

18:33 and how far they've come independent

18:35 of who they are to somebody else.

18:37 - Kate Kennedy, thank you so much for your time.

18:39 I appreciate it.

18:41 - Thank you, this was so fun.

18:42 (upbeat music)

18:45 (upbeat music)

18:47 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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