Can freelancers obtain loans even without a fixed salary? Can they think of regular investments like SIPs or retirement planning along with managing daily expenses?
On this episode of Big Decisions, Roongta Securities' Harshvardhan Roongta discusses why navigating a freelancer's cycle of feast and famine doesn't need to complicated.
On this episode of Big Decisions, Roongta Securities' Harshvardhan Roongta discusses why navigating a freelancer's cycle of feast and famine doesn't need to complicated.
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TVTranscript
00:00The grass is always greener on the other side.
00:09I found that to be true in a lot of cases.
00:12When, for example, you're working for a company and earning a salary, you dream about what
00:17life would be if you were your own boss, if you could choose when to wake up and when
00:23to work.
00:24How amazing does that sound?
00:26You'd be able to wake up whenever you want, like I said.
00:29You'd be able to take days off without having to take permission and also have flexible
00:33working hours.
00:35If on the other side, you're a freelancer, you're dreaming of a regular income as well
00:40as fixed working hours and retirement benefits to say the least, as well as group health
00:46insurance.
00:47This is Big Decisions on NDTV Profit and I'm Alex Mathew.
00:51On today's episode, I'm reaching out to all of the freelancers out there.
00:55If you are a freelancer, we're going to talk about what the challenges are that you face
01:01and how do you overcome them as well as the ways that you should manage your money effectively.
01:06But before we get to that, let's talk about some of the misconceptions out there about
01:12managing money as a freelancer.
01:14As a salaried employee, you might think that the life of a freelancer is all about flexible
01:19work hours, endless coffee and cute co-working places, but it's also a constant battle with
01:25So what have you decided about the future?
01:28Freelancing comes with its fair share of misconceptions.
01:31Some people think we can't get a loan.
01:33Some think we can never make a retirement corpus.
01:36And well, some just think we can never fully manage our expenses on our own.
01:41Most people also believe that we can't do any regular investments like SIPs just because
01:45we don't have a steady income, nor can we have any long term goals.
01:50Another one that I've heard is that we don't need insurance, we need life or health.
01:55But everyone needs a safety net, right?
01:57The most common one I've heard though is freelancing toh theek hai, but what are you really planning
02:03to do?
02:04Are you planning on getting a job or starting your own business?
02:08But the thing is, freelancing doesn't need to be that risky.
02:11Not if you manage your expenses properly.
02:13And that is exactly what we're going to be talking about on this episode of Vick Decisions.
02:18My guest today is Harshvardhan Roomta, co-founder of Roomta Securities.
02:22Harsh, thanks as always for taking the time.
02:24It's always my pleasure, Alex, to be here.
02:26And it's great to have you back on this new avatar of Vick Decisions.
02:31Let's talk about freelancers.
02:33And I must admit that in the mainstream media, we often, shall we say, skirt this group of
02:40individuals in favor of the salaried individual.
02:43Is it very different, the managing of money if you're a freelancer?
02:46Yes, in fact, as you rightly said at the beginning, that if you're a salaried employee, there
02:51are certain benefits that you get.
02:53There are some compromises you have to make.
02:55Now, there are going to be pros and cons of each type of profession that you're pursuing.
02:59If you're working with the corporate, you have certain comforts and at the same time
03:02certain challenges.
03:04If you're a professional freelancer that you're on your own, then you're not going to get
03:07certain flexibilities that you have or certain privileges of being into a corporate sector.
03:12For instance, you have a regular income coming in, in the form of a salary if you're salaried.
03:16Now, that is a great advantage in terms of planning your finances.
03:21You have visibility of your cash flow, so you know, and you can commit yourself to certain,
03:26say an SIP as simple as that, whereas a freelancer would have certain challenges to commit a
03:31maximum amount towards SIP.
03:33So what we would necessarily talk to a freelancer or professional in that context would be that
03:39you commit the smallest amount, okay, as an SIP, so that there is a flow that you know
03:43that on an auto mode, certain amount will get deducted from your bank account every
03:48month.
03:49Over and above that, if you land up saving something in a particular month, then you
03:52do a simple, do a lump sum investment.
03:54So yes, there are going to be pros and cons in each type.
03:56But let's talk about some of the challenges that you might have discussed with people
04:00that have come to you for advice.
04:01Is the irregularity of income the biggest challenge to overcome?
04:06Yes, in fact, you know, as I said, everything is dependent upon how regularly you're going
04:11to get your cash flows.
04:13So all planning essentially would be dependent on this one single factor.
04:17So while for a salaried, I mean, we know there is visibility of exact amount of money that
04:22is going to come in.
04:23So you can plan many things accordingly.
04:25Whereas for professionals and freelancers, I mean, there is going to be, you know, phases
04:31where you have no income, you've rendered your services, but the bills are going to
04:33be paid after a couple of months.
04:35Okay, so that could be a kind of a situation, but your expenses on the other side are fixed.
04:40Yes.
04:41Right.
04:42So your income could come in, you know, in lump sum sometime, you know, only in couple
04:46of months in a year, but your expenses are going to be incurred every month.
04:50So then from that perspective, is there any way to get around that?
04:55The obvious way would be to have a certain amount of, I mean, I loosely calling it a
05:02contingency fund or an emergency fund, but could it be a daily needs fund if you can
05:07call it that?
05:08Yes.
05:09So in fact, what we do for freelancers, I'll tell you, so there are two parts to this.
05:12The first one being that six months worth of your expenses, the mandatory expenses,
05:17which are your household day to day living expenses, your food, clothing, shelter, in
05:21fact.
05:22So six months worth of that, you keep it aside in a liquid fund.
05:26So that's essentially only to take care of your living needs, as you rightly mentioned.
05:30It's not a contingency fund.
05:31It's your expenses fund.
05:32Okay.
05:33Okay.
05:34So this is just an employer kind of a situation that you kept it aside saying that every month,
05:37whenever I need money, I will pull out of this particular fund.
05:40Now there's another set of expenses which are annual in nature, okay, which are, which
05:45is not going to come every month, but these are annual commitments that you have.
05:48Right.
05:49Now, these are also mandatory expenses.
05:50Okay.
05:51So our suggestion on that count is like, say, for example, your children's fees.
05:54Sure.
05:55The schools may charge you on a quarterly basis or a half yearly basis.
05:58But that amount is for the full year.
06:00It's for the full year.
06:01Yeah.
06:02So what we recommend in cases such as a school fees or your housing society charges, your
06:05insurance premiums that you have, you'd rather make advance payments for them when you have
06:10the money with you.
06:11Right.
06:12Okay.
06:13So say, for example, you have to pay your children's school fees.
06:15So what do you do is, though the school may ask you to pay quarterly or half yearly, you
06:19can go up to the school and say, look, I want to deposit that annual fee at one shot itself.
06:24At that time when you have the money in your hand.
06:26Okay.
06:27So what that helps you do is that, because your schooling cannot stop, right?
06:30Yeah.
06:31Irrespective of whether your client has paid you or not, you will still need to pay your
06:34fees.
06:35So at least those expenses, you ensure that you've paid off in lump sum.
06:39So that you're not worried about for the next whole year.
06:42Look at it from a life insurance or a health insurance perspective.
06:45I was going to come to that.
06:46But we'll talk about life insurance and health insurance a little down the line.
06:50What I want to ask is, at the start, assuming that somebody's listening, watching this,
06:57and they haven't done any of this, and they want to set their finances in order, Harsh.
07:01What do they prioritize?
07:02Do they look at these expenses first and foremost?
07:06Because that's something that's not going away.
07:08And then after that, once that is put into place, because it's going to take some time
07:12to put those six months together, only then do you look at investments?
07:16Yes, of course.
07:18As much as we say that you should save for your retirement well in advance, etc.
07:22But you'll have to still wait for the right time when you can start investing for it.
07:25Now, in cases of freelancers and professionals, as I said, your priorities are going to be
07:30different.
07:31As I said, first make a list of all those mandatory expenses which you have to incur
07:35in a year.
07:36And there's no choice to it.
07:38So it's school fees, housing society charges, your electricity charges for that matter,
07:42your utility bills for that matter.
07:43Even your rent, I would think.
07:45And your insurance premiums.
07:47So these are expenses, whether or not you're earning, you will have to pay for the year.
07:52So you make first those mandatory expenses that you have, you make a list of them.
07:56Now what you do is, and then of course, you know the six months worth of your living expenses
08:01you need to keep provisions for.
08:04So these two things, you have it in your hand right now?
08:06Yes.
08:07Now, as and when you get paid for your services, you allocate towards them.
08:12What you could do, as I said, is at first keep aside for six months, because if you're
08:16not going to be having some work or freelancing job work, if you don't have that for the next
08:20two or three months, doesn't mean that you're not going to have your food in that period.
08:23It doesn't mean that you don't have to pay electricity bills.
08:25Very true.
08:26Right?
08:27So what you do is, first you ensure that you have enough buffer for your six months cash
08:32flows.
08:33Okay?
08:34Thereafter, if you're left with something surplus, you will think of long term investment.
08:38So two questions here.
08:39Why liquid fund?
08:41Why not just leaving it in your bank account or have your flexi fixed deposit in terms
08:45of your sweep in, sweep out facility?
08:48And the second point is, what happens to the contingency fund?
08:51Because I would think that these individuals would need to have a larger contingency fund.
08:54Or is that a misconception as well?
08:56No.
08:57So contingency fund is a part of the living expenses that we're talking about in this
08:59case.
09:00Okay.
09:01It covers that.
09:02Yeah.
09:03In this particular case.
09:04Sure.
09:05Why?
09:06Because you don't like a salary.
09:07So what do you mean by contingency fund in such a situation?
09:10When you don't have a job.
09:11Right.
09:12Okay.
09:13So contingency fund is equivalent to this.
09:14Right.
09:15So as you rightly kind of pointing out that, what do you do?
09:19So first of course, you need to make sure that your present is pleasant as well.
09:22Right.
09:23Right.
09:24We can't be in a situation where your next month's expenses are, you don't have visibility
09:28of that.
09:29And you're talking about retiring after 10, 20, 30 years.
09:31Yeah.
09:32It's not going to logically make sense to anybody.
09:33But why liquid fund?
09:34Okay.
09:36So either ways, given the sweep-in, sweep-out facility, if you are comfortable with that,
09:40you can most certainly continue with that also.
09:42There is no problem.
09:43Just a small, you know, administrative issue.
09:47If there's a sweep-in, sweep-out account, I mean, there is a TDS implication.
09:50Sure.
09:51Okay.
09:52Because it gets converted into a fixed deposit.
09:53Then every time there is going to be a small, you know, withdrawal.
09:56So there is going to be some kind of TDS and those compliance issues.
10:00Whereas liquid mutual funds, there is deferment of tax.
10:03Exactly.
10:04Whenever you pull money out, you then pay taxes on it.
10:05So that's simpler to calculate.
10:06You don't have to.
10:07It's just simply a long-term, short-term capital gains tax statement that you need.
10:11Where vis-a-vis, when you compare to this, this will be more like an interest payment
10:14to you.
10:15All right.
10:16Now, the next point is about your insurance.
10:18Because you mentioned that.
10:19And this is, I know that you've said this on conversations that we've had in the past,
10:25that you need to have a few things in place before you look at investments.
10:28Correct.
10:29Right?
10:30And your safety net is the most important thing.
10:32A lot of people, be they, you know, employed by someone or working for themselves, they
10:40look at insurance and think, why do I need this?
10:43But why would you say that freelancers absolutely need insurance?
10:48And how much do they need?
10:49So, in fact, Alex, all individuals, whether employed or unemployed, or for that matter
10:56freelancing professionals, I mean, everybody needs insurance.
10:59Okay.
11:00I put it like this, you know, insurance is the best man-made product in this world.
11:05I mean, it is the first step of financial planning.
11:08And I go ahead and say to this extent as well, that in case you have to delay your investments,
11:15you delay your investments if required, but do not delay insurance.
11:18I mean, that's how critical it is as a part of your own financial well-being.
11:23So, health is non-negotiable, term, I would think is negotiable depending on whether you
11:28have financial dependence.
11:30Absolutely.
11:31So, health insurance is something that you are just ensuring that you are accessing good
11:35medical treatment in case you fall ill.
11:37Even if you're maintaining a very good lifestyle and you may think that you're the fittest
11:41and you're consuming the best of food, taking full care of yourself, you know, accidents
11:46happen, you know, there's so much of chemicals that are going into our body, you know, in
11:50terms of pesticides and all those things.
11:52And you never know.
11:53I mean, I've seen the healthiest of people suffering from cancer, all you know.
11:56Yes.
11:57So, it's not just in that sense, maintaining good lifestyle, maintaining good diet, you
12:00know, working out, etc.
12:01But you know, if something like a cancer strikes you, what do you do?
12:04Yeah.
12:05So, you just have to ensure that you have access to good medical treatment.
12:08And given the cost of medical treatment these days, I mean, a treatment of a COVID, during
12:14COVID, an average hospitalization cost was one and a half lakhs.
12:17Yeah.
12:18That was average.
12:19The national average that I'm talking about.
12:20And claims in that time also paid only to the next round of 90,000 rupees.
12:23Yes.
12:24So, there was still some money that you had to pay.
12:25Imagine some claims that have gone to even, you know, 10 lakhs and above.
12:28I have seen cases where claims have gone to even 50 lakhs for COVID kind of a treatment.
12:33Right.
12:34So, how do you access good medical treatment for yourself?
12:36So, whether you're working, not working, unemployed, whether you're a freelancer, illnesses don't
12:42strike you just because you have money.
12:43So, and how much do you need as health insurance?
12:45So, well, if you're in metros, because the cost of treatment is going to be higher there.
12:50Given the current situation, being very conservative, just because I have to give you the minimum
12:54amount, I would say that do not have insurance less than 10 lakhs.
12:57And if you are part of a family, then you should look at top-ups as well.
13:01Yes.
13:02So, in fact, if you're in, you know, middle to affluent family, I mean, make sure that
13:05you have a combination of a base policy and a super top-up going up to, say, a 50 lakh
13:10or a one crore cover.
13:11Wow.
13:12Okay.
13:13That much.
13:14And that is possible with a very nominal premium because of this super top-up concept.
13:15Yeah.
13:16Okay.
13:17So, if you're a middle income or an affluent family, just ensure that you buy an insurance
13:21in combination with a base and super top-up to the extent of at least 50 lakhs or one
13:25crore.
13:26Okay.
13:27Nowadays, we have even options of global cover being included.
13:29You can go for treatment overseas.
13:30Sure.
13:31So, we've covered quite a bit of the cost side of it.
13:33I want to talk about the investments and the savings for goals.
13:36And also a lot of people that tend to want to create a business, I know of a lot of professionals
13:42that say that that's the next logical step.
13:45So, I'd like to talk to you about the pros and the cons and also the pitfalls to avoid.
13:50So, we've spoken about the cost side of things.
13:52But when it comes to the investment side of things, I think a lot of people face this
13:56challenge.
13:57If they're spending so much time and effort and money, setting aside that amount of money
14:02that's going to be taking care of their daily expenses, they're focused on the very near
14:07term.
14:08How do they save for their, you know, 20 years down the line?
14:11You're talking about post-retirement.
14:13Do freelancers ever retire?
14:15So, well, they would not intend to retire, of course.
14:18Yeah.
14:20So, one of the advantages of doing freelancing is that you're offering certain specialized
14:22services.
14:23Yes.
14:24Which is a skill set, essentially.
14:26And that hopefully will not be outdated over a period of time and they would continue to
14:30work as long as they can.
14:31So, you know, this is a very interesting element of saving for long term.
14:35Why?
14:36Because you're so engrossed with managing your cash flows in the present that you lose
14:39sight of what you need after, say, probably 10, 20 years from now.
14:43But you have to somewhere ask yourself, you know, shake yourself up and say, look, one
14:47day if I'm going to struggle for my cash flows in the present, I don't want to be doing
14:53that 10 or 20 years down the line, right, because you never know if your skill sets
14:56are still relevant.
14:57Still relevant, yeah.
14:58And you may not probably at that point in time be able to offer freelancing services.
15:02So, what happens at that point in time?
15:03And you don't have an organized pension or an EPF or an NPS for that matter to take care
15:08of you.
15:09So, what do you do?
15:10So, there's one small side that you'll have to, you know, at the corner of your eye, just
15:13keep, you know, be mindful of the fact that, look, if I am able to set aside a small sum
15:19of money, okay, it need not be a huge, fancy number.
15:23It could be as less as even, say, thousand rupees.
15:25Just giving you an example, need not literally mean a hundred, that doesn't mean a thousand
15:29rupees at all.
15:30It could be as much as you can set aside comfortably.
15:32Set it aside, assuming that you don't have that money, access to that money at all.
15:36As if your client has paid you less to that extent, it could be 10% of their income that
15:40you're generating.
15:41Yeah.
15:42So, 10% or 20% aside.
15:43So, when you're saying it could be a percentage, what according to you is the ideal?
15:48And of course, you have to strive to it, may not be possible, but in your opinion, what
15:52is the ideal amount to set aside?
15:54It's very difficult to generalize because it depends entirely on what stage of freelancing
15:58you're in.
15:59And how much you're getting, yes.
16:00So, if it's, so let's assume.
16:01But even starting out.
16:02Yeah.
16:03So, let's assume that extreme, you know, that you're just starting out, you're trying to
16:05build yourself as a professional or a freelancer, try and set aside 10%.
16:09Sure.
16:10Even if it means a thousand rupees.
16:11Yeah.
16:12So, just form that habit, create a corpus, create a fund rather, you know, to say that,
16:16look, I'm setting this money aside for a time, say 20 years from now.
16:20Yeah.
16:21It's as good as TDS.
16:22Say for example, a client is a deducted TDS.
16:24Tax deducted as source.
16:25Yeah.
16:26So, you feel that, you know, there's another 10% deducted as a retirement fund for you.
16:28Yeah.
16:29If you were in employment, even then there was a deduction from your salary, right?
16:32So, why don't you behave as if you're employed and doing this for your own self?
16:36So, put a 10% aside.
16:39And as and when your income keeps going up, that 10% will obviously incrementally go up.
16:43Sure.
16:44Alternatively, what you do is that whenever you have, you know, some surplus left at some
16:47point in time, then park it lock, stock and barrel.
16:50So, lump sum investments whenever you get the chance.
16:52I think there's another way because if you have irregularity of income or no visibility
16:58of a smooth regular income every month, then as and when you get money, you will have to
17:02park it aside.
17:03Right.
17:04Now, it does not mean that you need to put a lump sum.
17:05If you have few lakhs coming in, you don't need to put that entirely into equity.
17:09Sure.
17:10At one shot.
17:11If you're not comfortable with investing lump sum, you could do an STP, you know, so you
17:13invest it into a debt fund.
17:15Systematic transfer plan.
17:16Transfer plan.
17:17So, you put it in a liquid fund, which you're doing already for your daily expenses.
17:20Correct.
17:21You can maybe have another liquid fund and from that fund, you can do a systematic transfer
17:25plan.
17:26Correct.
17:27To a couple of or two or three mutual funds.
17:28Exactly.
17:29So, in case you're not comfortable investing lump sum in equities.
17:31Sure.
17:32So, if you have received a lump sum, which you don't need in the next two, three months.
17:35Yeah.
17:36So, why not put it aside for something that you may need after 10, 20 years from now.
17:39Okay.
17:40So, what you're essentially saying is that SIPs may not work obviously because you don't
17:44know when you're getting money.
17:45No.
17:46One thing you could do over here is for the SIP part of it, that you commit the lowest
17:49amount that you believe that you will have in any case.
17:51Sure.
17:52Right.
17:53So, suppose your total potential to invest every month is 20,000 rupees, say the best
17:56case scenario.
17:57Commitment, you can also take for 2,000 rupees, no?
18:00Yeah.
18:01So, let's say that 2,000 rupees will go with that.
18:02Whatever I'm comfortable with.
18:03Whatever you're comfortable with.
18:04Yeah.
18:051,000, 2,000, 5,000, whatever you're comfortable with.
18:06So, let there always be one amount which is auto debited.
18:09Okay.
18:10So, that has to continue.
18:11Now, as and when you receive a lump sum and you don't need it in the next two, three months,
18:16then you can just put it as a lump sum in the same fund, plus that SIP continues.
18:20Why am I saying that minimum amount at least you should commit?
18:22Because unless you commit, irrespective of the amount, you will not have it in the system,
18:27in your scheme of things to do.
18:28In your experience, is it tougher to get a loan as a freelancer?
18:32See, if you have some kind of income, it need not be every month, but you have regularity
18:37or some kind of a pattern in your income for the last three years.
18:40Okay.
18:41Not as a start, as just starting off, but if you have certain kind of, you know, a history
18:46of three years of some pattern of income, then it's not very difficult to get a loan.
18:49And if you, so for example, one of the biggest loans that you would take is a home loan.
18:54And there are risks associated with that, of course.
18:57You've said this before, but I will reiterate it.
18:59You should ideally have term insurance if you're buying a house and if you have dependents.
19:04But having said that, are there any pitfalls that you should be aware of before you go
19:08and buy a house as a freelancer?
19:09So see, house is a very long term commitment.
19:12Yes.
19:13Okay.
19:14You don't want a situation that you've paid 25 or 50% of it, some amount of it you have
19:17to pay down payment, which is approximately 20%.
19:19Right.
19:20So that much you're already committed to the property.
19:21Thereafter, you're also committing a fixed payout every month in the form of an EMI.
19:27And you don't know how much income you're going to generate.
19:29If you're in that stage, there are many freelancers who are doing very well for themselves.
19:34And then I'm not talking about those people.
19:35I don't think we are addressing to those people.
19:37No, we're not.
19:38So we're talking about people who are in that zone where they're just in the process of
19:41setting themselves up with irregular cash flows.
19:44So while house is a very big commitment to make at that point in time, you're just putting
19:47undue pressure on yourself at this juncture to say that, look, my payments are going to
19:51be fixed.
19:52What if I don't pay?
19:53Then what happens?
19:54So wait till you have a little bit of stability.
19:56You have larger amount of income coming in and then you can take that call and save till
19:59that point.
20:00Absolutely.
20:01So instead of 25% down payment, you could well do 40%.
20:04And because house is something that you can also take on rent.
20:07Sure.
20:08It's not that if you don't have a house, you have nowhere to stay.
20:12So then it doesn't fall into the mandatory category at this juncture.
20:15So then the last question, and that has to do with those individuals that are looking
20:18to take the plunge and set up their own business.
20:21In a lot of cases, they're doing things that are allied and that would lend themselves
20:26to setting up a business.
20:27Is there a distinct advantage to setting up a business?
20:30So setting up a business or doing freelancing is more or less in the same category.
20:35Just that when you're setting up a business, you know, it could see freelancing would essentially
20:38mean giving your services.
20:39Sure.
20:40Okay.
20:41Business could be, you can put up something which requires a lot of capital to be fused
20:44into in the form of an infrastructure that you need to set up.
20:46The kind of people that you will need to run the business.
20:48So that's a different equation in that context.
20:50Yeah.
20:51Working with more people.
20:52Correct.
20:53So freelancing would be you're rendering your own personal services for some, you know,
20:57just doing something which is only to do with you.
20:59You don't have a large infrastructure, you could do it from home.
21:01Sure.
21:02So but when you're doing a business, then of course, there is going to be some goods
21:05or services that you're going to produce in that sense to offer it to your clients.
21:09So which will entail an infrastructure.
21:11So all those people who've been into corporate life for a certain number of years, and then
21:14they accumulate that kind of corpus, build that regularity of income through that investment
21:19and then plunge into business is a different scenario altogether.
21:21Now, if you don't have that corpus in a plunging into business, then your primary objective
21:26is to make the business work.
21:27Yes.
21:28And at that time, if I was to, you know, land up in somebody's office and then look, don't
21:32worry about your business, say for something 20 years from now, you're not going to be
21:36thinking about that.
21:37And also, I would think that if you are setting up your business, the biggest investment that
21:40you can make is in that business.
21:42Exactly.
21:43And the kind of returns that a business gives, probably an investment will not give.
21:47So if your business is successful, I mean, your retirement is taken care of in that
21:51context.
21:52So you so setting up a business has got a different connotation.
21:55Yeah.
21:56So but the bottom line that I'm taking from this conversation that it's not terribly difficult.
22:01Of course, there are challenges, especially in the early days.
22:05But the other advantage is to push the envelope just a little bit more in a salary job, you
22:11only get a certain amount of salary.
22:13Whereas I would think that with a free, I've never done it.
22:16But I would think that as a freelancer, you can maybe take one more gig and push the envelope
22:20a little bit more.
22:21So maybe you earn a little bit more in those.
22:23Absolutely.
22:24So so that says popularly said, I mean, in a job, you know exactly what you will gain
22:28and what you will earn the maximum, right?
22:31That's the most you can do whatever you want.
22:32That's the most you learn in a business or a freelancing that you know, the minimum amount
22:36that you can earn and the ceiling is endless, the you know, the top is the I mean, you can
22:40just go as much as you can.
22:42So and as you rightly said, it's not see, it's not it's not terribly difficult.
22:47It's just about how whether you're able to manage your I mean, I'd rather you spread
22:51your legs as much as you have, you know, as much as you can tolerate.
22:55I mean, exactly.
22:59So the point is, you can survive for sure.
23:02It's just that you need to be within your means.
23:03Yes.
23:04And you need to plan.
23:05Okay, you just need to be clear in what you're doing.
23:08So as I said, we've been discussing what should they plan for is that you make a list of your
23:12fixed expenses provide for them, then you're free to do what you want to do, right?
23:16Absolutely.
23:17So those fixed expenses need to be provided for and if you've done that, well, then I
23:20think then you're you're a free bird to do whatever you want.
23:22And then you're not worried about your expenses.
23:25And that's exactly what I wanted to have communicated.
23:28Harsh, thanks so much for joining us on Big Decisions viewers, listeners.
23:32It's been an absolute pleasure bringing you this episode.
23:35Do write to us if you've got any specific questions and we'll try and address them in
23:39future episodes to stay tuned.
23:41This is NDTV Profit.