TENSE: Ted Cruz Relentlessly Grills Judicial Nominee About 'Implicit Bias'

last year

At today's Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) questioned Kevin Gafford Ritz, nominee to be United States Circuit Judge for the Sixth Circuit, about his record.

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Transcript

00:00 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:11 In your 2023 U.S. Attorney Investigator's speech, you highlighted the challenges you

00:16 believe America faces and what justice means.

00:19 You said, quote, "We're experiencing a long overdue reckoning with racism in the criminal

00:25 justice system."

00:29 Mr. Ritz, what part of the criminal justice system needs a long overdue reckoning?

00:35 Senator, what I was describing were a number of things that have happened in recent years

00:40 in this country that framed, I would say, in some ways, the work that we do in the U.S.

00:45 Attorney's Office.

00:47 Is the American justice system systematically racist?

00:51 That is not a sentiment that I hold, to the degree there is a definition of what being

00:56 systematically racist means.

01:00 I understand some individuals have pointed to disparities in sentencing and that type

01:06 of thing, but that's not a view that I have.

01:09 So that's not a view that you have.

01:10 That was your testimony.

01:12 Well, you also said, quote, "There cannot be one rule of law for people who look like

01:17 me and another for people of color."

01:20 That sure sounds like the view you just said you didn't have.

01:24 You believe that's our system, that our justice system has one rule of law for people that

01:29 look like you and a different rule of law for people of color?

01:32 No, what I said is that absolutely we cannot have one rule of law for people who look like

01:37 me and another for people of color.

01:39 We cannot have one rule of law for the powerless and another for the—there's just one rule

01:43 of law.

01:44 That's what I said.

01:47 You also said, when asked if the criminal justice system is systematically racist, you

01:51 said, quote, "There are structural barriers and disparate outcomes that communities of

01:56 color experience in our society, separate and apart from any individual's views or intentions."

02:01 Now, that again seems to be saying the same thing that you're saying you weren't saying.

02:06 I'm just trying to understand what your views are.

02:09 And Senator, that was my attempt in that written question to grapple with again what was being

02:14 asked by systematic racism.

02:17 I understand some have pointed to structural barriers and disparate outcomes.

02:22 So what are the barriers and outcomes you're referring to?

02:24 I can think of one prominent example that I've had some experience with, which is the

02:29 disparity in cocaine sentencing between crack sentencing and powder sentencing.

02:34 This body has addressed those disparities on multiple occasions, and that has been,

02:40 as I understand it, something that people have addressed as a result of disparities.

02:49 You also said, in responses to questions for the record, that as the attorney general has

02:54 explained, everyone has implicit biases.

02:58 So what are your implicit biases?

03:00 Senator, I understand implicit bias to refer to unconscious bias that exists below the

03:06 level of consciousness, and so to the degree I have implicit biases, I think we all do.

03:13 I think that's partly the point.

03:15 Everyone's a racist, whether they know it or not?

03:17 I would say that everyone might have implicit biases, and I don't know what...

03:22 So what's the difference between bias and prejudice?

03:25 I think there can be a lot of overlap in those things.

03:29 It depends, I think, on the context.

03:31 So you're saying everyone is prejudiced?

03:34 That's not what I said, Senator.

03:35 You said everyone has implicit biases, and you said that bias and prejudice, I think

03:38 your words were, there's a lot of overlap.

03:40 I think that's right, and I understand implicit bias, and I'm not an expert on the subject,

03:45 to refer to a set of biases that may exist under a conscious level.

03:52 So since you talk about these implicit bias issues, have you taken a so-called implicit

03:59 bias test?

04:01 We received training that was put on during the last administration in our office on implicit

04:06 bias.

04:07 I attended that training in our office.

04:09 And did you take a test?

04:11 I don't believe there was a test associated with that, Senator.

04:15 Okay, you also said, "But you should know that for justice, for me, is about more than

04:22 putting people in prison.

04:23 For me, it's also about who votes and how hard it is to cast that vote.

04:27 It's about where pipelines or bus routes go.

04:31 This is about whether people in all zip codes can get a loan, whether women have access

04:34 to health care."

04:39 That's an interesting statement, and in reading it, what's striking is that that's deemphasizing

04:46 the core role of a U.S. attorney.

04:48 The last I checked, a U.S. attorney is not in the policy business of deciding where pipelines

04:54 go.

04:55 That's the role of environmental activists and left-wing activists, but is not supposed

05:00 to be a U.S. attorney.

05:05 Why was your focus elsewhere?

05:07 Senator, and the very next thing I said was that those are not issues that we deal with

05:12 on a day-to-day basis in the U.S. Attorney's Office, where we are primarily focused on

05:16 enforcing criminal laws.

05:18 I was seeking to place justice as a broad concept at the center of, you know, to place

05:25 our work within justice as a broad concept.

05:29 Do you agree that Memphis is one of the most dangerous cities in the nation?

05:32 It is.

05:33 We have an intolerable amount of violent crime, and that's why there's no higher priority

05:37 for us in our office.

05:40 Well, there's no higher priority except for pipelines, except for bus routes, except for

05:51 bank loans, except for implicit bias, except for the fact that everyone is prejudiced,

05:56 all of those other things are what you're focused on talking about instead of actually

06:02 locking up bad guys who are murdering and raping and hurting people.

06:06 In those same comments, Senator, I said that we don't apologize for seeking significant

06:11 prison sentences, and that's at the core of what we do.

06:15 When we have serious violent crime, we seek serious sentences and consequences.

06:21 Thank you.

06:22 Thank you, Senator Cruz, and thank you, Mr. Ritz.

06:25 We appreciate your being here.

06:26 We may receive some questions in writing.

06:28 If you'll respond in a prompt fashion, we'd appreciate it very much.

06:31 Thank you.

06:32 We now make room for the second panel.

06:41 Thank you.

06:55 [BLANK_AUDIO]

TENSE: Ted Cruz Relentlessly Grills Judicial Nominee About 'Implicit Bias'

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