• 7 months ago
Transcript
00:00 Asalam o alikum, dear viewers, you are watching the program Kashif Abbasi. Today, we have met the leaders of the Tariq-e-Jadid movement, Mr. Imran Khan, the Chairman of the Tariq-e-Jadid Movement.
00:29 Mr. Rauf Hassan is also with us. Asalam o alikum, Mr. Rauf.
00:32 Wa alikum Assalam, Mr. Kashif. Thank you.
00:35 Sir, how was the meeting with your Chairman today?
00:38 It was a very good meeting. I was there, along with five other people.
00:42 We had a very open conversation. We met for about an hour.
00:46 He seemed very determined, very courageous, and very hopeful.
00:52 He had a very simple message. He said that we have won this struggle, we have won this war.
00:59 And the way we have endured the state dictatorship for the past two years,
01:08 now the people who are standing against us should have the courage to accept their defeat.
01:14 He said that they have nothing left, their feet have crashed.
01:18 Now they are using only delaying tactics.
01:22 And he said with great courage that it is only a matter of a few days that I will come back.
01:27 And after coming back, we will move forward in the struggle. Inshallah.
01:32 Sir, you said that you met in a very good environment.
01:39 You didn't even let me meet you before.
01:42 No, we didn't meet in a good environment today, Kashif.
01:45 Today he had created a new scene.
01:49 Earlier we used to sit on one side and there was a big table in the middle.
01:53 And on the other side of that table, there was Khan Sahib.
01:56 Behind him, two sentinels were posted. Sentinels were posted on the doors as well.
02:01 Today, he has built a glass wall on the roof of the table.
02:09 So, when we used to go with Khan Sahib, I am laughing, what else can I say?
02:15 When we used to go, we used to talk to him, we used to ask him to give us his ear.
02:19 So, we used to go and talk to him in a low voice.
02:22 But my first question was that you were not even meeting me before.
02:26 Once, there was an order from the High Court, you stand outside.
02:29 I remember, Umar Ayub Sahib said that I have an order from the High Court, I am not meeting you.
02:33 He took away the ear of Imran Khan Sahib.
02:39 Now, they don't let you talk in your ear, but at least they let you meet him.
02:41 They let you talk. The time that is fixed for you, you meet him.
02:44 This is not a change. Do you see a change in the situation?
02:48 Kashif sahib, do you see a change?
02:50 No, see, the problem was that he had completely alienated the political leadership.
02:56 For 6-7 months, he did not let anyone meet him.
02:58 He only let the lawyers meet him.
03:00 Either his wife, who used to meet him on the day of the case, once a week,
03:04 or his sister, who was his family, used to meet him.
03:06 Now, through the High Court, he has come to us again today.
03:12 On Fridays, 6 people are allowed to meet.
03:15 We have made a list of the coordinators.
03:20 Out of that, 3 people are present.
03:22 We select the names and give them to meet these 6 people.
03:26 So, the original list today had the name of Azam Sabati,
03:30 and Khawaja sahib, who is from southern Punjab.
03:35 So, at the last minute, he said that these 2 people cannot go.
03:38 We did not allow them to go.
03:41 So, we did not allow them to go, so instead he said that the lawyers should join.
03:45 So, we had to do that.
03:47 We protested, but they also violated the High Court's orders today.
03:51 So, you win some, you lose some.
03:55 Some are giving permission, some are not.
03:57 I think this is what is happening.
03:59 You said that Mr. Baghdakhan will be back in a few days.
04:02 Let's do a little political analysis on this.
04:05 The decision on his case is being made.
04:07 We are seeing that it is going on very well.
04:09 His opponents are also saying that this case is a mess, not even for a day.
04:13 I often hear that the Muslim League Moon people are also saying that
04:16 the way these cases were run,
04:18 whether it was run till midnight or till 12 at night,
04:21 the way these decisions were made,
04:23 they cannot stand like this, and they are also calling it a conspiracy.
04:26 But on the other hand, there is also an argument that if Mr. Khan comes out,
04:29 then it will be very difficult for Mr. Khan to handle it.
04:32 Mr. Khan will come, a campaign that you are already talking about,
04:35 if Mr. Khan leads it, then the government will be in a lot of trouble.
04:38 It will be very difficult for this government to run or stand.
04:41 In this case, what do you think politically,
04:44 that although the cases are going on,
04:46 will there be bail?
04:48 Will they give more punishments to Mr. Khan?
04:50 What responsibilities will be given to him so that no deal is loosed?
04:53 Look, there is only one case that is going on right now,
04:56 that of Al-Qaeda University.
04:58 And they are delaying it too because there is a bust there too.
05:01 After the statement of the Chief Executive Officer,
05:03 why didn't it remain in the case?
05:05 Because this is a trust, and they are trustees.
05:07 Mr. Khan is a trustee, his wife is a trustee.
05:09 And trustees do not deserve any kind of profit.
05:12 They have no liability, nor do they have any profit.
05:15 So, politically, the foundations of the case have also been destroyed.
05:18 That is why they are now stopping it, delaying it.
05:20 So, all the other cases, the cipher has also been bust.
05:23 Your point in the political context,
05:25 there is definitely a fear.
05:27 Today, the wall of the glass represents that fear,
05:31 reflects that,
05:33 that it is also dangerous for them to talk to Mr. Khan.
05:37 So, we are fine, we have dealt with everything.
05:40 Yes, now when Mr. Khan comes out,
05:42 I say that Mr. Khan was a threat to them,
05:45 and will become a big threat to them.
05:47 Because they will then lead the political movement themselves.
05:51 And Mr. Khan's presence will be a very big factor for them.
05:57 That is why I said, what you are saying,
06:00 or what Mr. Khan is hoping for,
06:02 that he will come out soon.
06:04 If you are there, instead of decision makers,
06:07 you know what the result will be.
06:09 There will be another campaign, and big rallies will start again.
06:14 They will obviously ask for resignation from the government,
06:17 they will ask for resignation from Shahbaz Sharif,
06:19 who is the Prime Minister at the moment.
06:21 Do you think they will let the situation go this way?
06:23 By the way, there must have been some discussion about the analysis,
06:26 when you go in, everyone talks about the cases,
06:28 that the cases will end.
06:30 I am sure there must have been a discussion,
06:32 that it is difficult for you to come.
06:34 Kashif, look, our political protest movement is starting.
06:38 On the 28th, we have a rally in Karachi,
06:41 and from the 30th, we are starting our rally in Lahore.
06:44 Our rallies are in the whole of Punjab.
06:46 Every day, virtually, there is some rally somewhere or the other.
06:51 So, they will not stop.
06:52 But Imran, leading Mr. Khan's rally,
06:54 and leading someone else's rally,
06:56 you know, is very important.
06:58 Yes, of course.
06:59 Mr. Khan's help is very important.
07:00 Of course, of course.
07:01 I was coming to that, actually.
07:02 But the rally is starting,
07:04 and there is no stopping it.
07:06 Even today, they have approved the entire schedule of the rallies,
07:09 and have said that we should start it.
07:11 They are starting it.
07:12 Responsibilities have been given.
07:13 Everything has been done.
07:14 So, people know this.
07:15 But the problem is,
07:16 what else can we do in this kind of situation?
07:19 How long can we stop it?
07:21 Chief Justice?
07:23 Look, we have discussed this with Mr. Khan,
07:26 that they will let you come out,
07:28 or not let you come out,
07:29 or put you in custody for something else,
07:31 or there will be another case.
07:32 I was just looking at Mr. Fawad Chaudhary,
07:34 he has put a complaint,
07:35 he has stolen a mobile phone.
07:37 If such cases can be made,
07:39 then it is possible that if such cases are made,
07:41 they will put you in custody.
07:42 Do you have such arguments with Mr. Khan?
07:48 We do not expect anything good, Mr. Kashif.
07:51 And we know that they will try to involve him in more fabulous cases.
07:55 But I think,
07:56 now this is my understanding,
07:59 which has not been discussed,
08:00 but this is my personal understanding,
08:01 and I have also spoken to some people,
08:03 that the voices that have started to rise from within the judiciary,
08:07 that is a major factor.
08:08 Look, the judge of our anti-terrorism court,
08:12 he has confirmed our bails,
08:14 and against him,
08:15 the PMLN has filed a complaint in the Supreme Judicial Council.
08:18 So this is the level of intolerance.
08:20 But I think,
08:21 and I know a lot of people personally,
08:24 I feel that in the coming times,
08:26 the voices that will come out of the judiciary,
08:28 will have more intensity.
08:30 It will be difficult for them to control these situations.
08:33 Even if they do not want to,
08:34 Mr. Khan will come out at the end of the day.
08:37 You also said something today,
08:39 when you were doing a press conference or a press talk.
08:43 First of all, you said that Mr. Khan will become the Prime Minister.
08:46 So I would like to know,
08:47 how will he become the Prime Minister in a while?
08:49 You said that strong signals are going to come from the institutions.
08:53 What strong signal are you waiting for?
08:56 And from which institutions are you waiting?
08:58 I did not say that we are talking about strong signals.
09:00 We are talking about our analysis,
09:02 our ascertainment,
09:03 on the basis of which we are saying that
09:04 Mr. Khan will not only come out,
09:05 but will become the Prime Minister.
09:07 I have said this.
09:08 I will tell you,
09:09 because I have heard it from the stood out,
09:10 when you talked about strong signals from the institutions.
09:13 Listen,
09:14 if you have talked about bail,
09:17 I want you to listen and tell me,
09:19 from which institutions are you waiting for strong signals?
09:21 Soon you will see that
09:23 positive signals will come from all sides,
09:25 from all institutions.
09:27 Soon you will see that
09:29 Mr. Khan will come out,
09:30 and Mr. Khan will again become the Prime Minister of this country.
09:33 You said that positive signals will come from all institutions.
09:36 What are you expecting?
09:37 I have already mentioned one institution.
09:39 There are already voices in the judiciary.
09:42 Now, the general environment of the people,
09:44 you go to Lahore and Punjab,
09:45 and see that the situation is becoming,
09:47 it is an upsurge.
09:48 The people are coming out,
09:49 it has already started.
09:51 The situation in KP is also very much there.
09:53 You go and see.
09:54 See in Pashin,
09:55 see in Bluchistan.
09:56 See in all other institutions,
09:57 which institutions are there?
09:58 You have a judiciary,
09:59 you have an establishment,
10:03 and the rest are the general institutions.
10:06 So, our association with the judiciary,
10:08 we have joined our hopes with them.
10:11 So, basically, I was referring to that.
10:13 But the most important thing for me is that
10:16 I am seeing a new enthusiasm and passion in the people.
10:19 And you wait for a week,
10:21 when our process of gatherings will start,
10:24 then you will realize what I am talking about.
10:27 But, when the leaders come out,
10:30 Nawaz Sharif sahib came out with a deal.
10:33 We always use the word deal in Pakistan.
10:36 Deal means that the matter is settled,
10:38 and it will be done tomorrow.
10:40 This is the meaning of the word deal.
10:42 So, are you being negotiated?
10:44 We have not had a deal, nor will it be.
10:47 There were a lot of offers,
10:49 there was a lot of pressure too.
10:50 We have resisted it for eight months.
10:53 Mr. Khan says that if I have to resist for eight years,
10:55 I will do it.
10:56 I will not deal.
10:57 I will come out on the basis of the strength of the people,
10:59 on the basis of the strength of the people's vote.
11:02 And God willing, I will become the Prime Minister of this country again.
11:05 So, you are saying that the message has been sent,
11:08 the message has been sent, but Mr. Khan has not made a deal.
11:11 On the other hand, we have not sent a message.
11:13 Yes, there were a lot of pressures,
11:15 a lot of messages have come,
11:17 which have been resisted.
11:20 There will be no deal.
11:21 There will be no deal of any kind, Mr. Kashyap.
11:23 Take my word on that.
11:24 There will be no deal.
11:25 Okay.
11:26 Well, we will see when the time comes.
11:28 There is still time.
11:30 There is still time.
11:32 There is still a lot of time left.
11:33 Tell me, when are you making Mr. Khan the Prime Minister?
11:35 Because you said that he will become the Prime Minister.
11:37 Now, do you believe these assemblies?
11:39 Will Mr. Khan come and become the Prime Minister from these assemblies?
11:42 What is in your mind?
11:43 What will happen when he comes out?
11:45 There are two options.
11:46 He will become the Prime Minister, Mr. Kashyap.
11:48 There are two options.
11:49 There are two options.
11:51 The powers that be have one option,
11:55 which is to restore our looted mandate.
11:58 Petitions have been moved for this.
12:01 Petitions are in the Election Commission,
12:03 in the tribunals, in the courts.
12:05 If our looted mandate is returned to us,
12:10 then it becomes our two-thirds majority here.
12:13 They have only one option.
12:14 They have another option,
12:16 that if they do not do it on this,
12:18 and if the public polls are strong,
12:21 then they will have to hold new elections.
12:23 Both options will work.
12:24 Sir, Mr. Zabeel Haseeb has talked about fresh elections.
12:27 I want to tell you,
12:29 although he only said that it is a matter of national understanding,
12:32 but for you, let's hear it.
12:35 He said that if the public wants to hold elections for the death penalty,
12:38 then Mr. Humayun should come and play the game.
12:40 He said that he will go to the elections.
12:41 Listen to what he said.
12:42 If you are determined to hold new elections,
12:47 to save the country from the spread of the virus,
12:49 then you should decide the rule of game,
12:51 gather all the communities,
12:53 and come.
12:54 In the name of Allah, we are ready for the election.
12:56 Yes, Mr. Dawood Farsan,
12:58 this advice came to you two days ago.
13:01 And I think that if he gets permission for Mian Nawaz,
13:04 then he is very close to Mian Nawaz.
13:07 His party has launched a special campaign about Javed Latif.
13:12 It has started since yesterday.
13:14 He said that he is Nawaz Sharif's man,
13:16 but there was no response.
13:17 He is Shabaz Sharif's man, but there was no response.
13:20 He said that he is Mariam's man,
13:22 but Mariam does not even talk to him.
13:24 His party has completely divorced him.
13:28 My friend is now jumping alone,
13:32 I don't know how seriously I should take his words.
13:35 Secondly, if you talk about us,
13:37 Mr. Khan has said that you can unite with anyone,
13:40 put anyone on your platform.
13:42 Those who have stolen your mandate,
13:44 you should not talk to them.
13:45 Their political party is also included in that.
13:47 People's Party is also included in MQM.
13:49 This is our mandate, we should get it.
13:51 For this, we will not have to talk to them,
13:53 because this mandate is our right.
13:55 People have voted for us, which is there.
13:57 So, Mr. Javed Latif's sentiments can be appreciated,
14:01 but unfortunately, I don't think
14:03 they will get any response from us.
14:05 Sir, Rana Sinhaullah has also made a statement.
14:07 He was also talking to you,
14:09 he said that he is also in love with you,
14:11 and I hope you will get Mr. Rana divorced from his party.
14:13 Let him also hear this.
14:15 In between political leadership,
14:18 political party, this matter should be settled.
14:21 Election is the basis.
14:23 I think if it had been discussed in 2018,
14:25 it would have been very good.
14:27 It didn't happen at that time.
14:28 It was late, it was right.
14:29 Let's sit down now.
14:30 Let's talk now.
14:31 But now there is only one problem in this,
14:33 that Imran Khan does not believe in sitting down and talking.
14:36 This is bad luck.
14:37 You are ready, he is not ready.
14:39 I think that Mian Nawaz Shaikh,
14:41 he will be absolutely ready.
14:43 Yes, Mr. Rahul Fasan.
14:46 If you are asked to come and sit on a particular issue,
14:51 and if the role of the establishment is in Pakistan's politics,
14:54 then we will make a collective of all political parties.
14:58 Are you ready for this?
14:59 Look, our position is very candid, very good.
15:02 And Rana Sanaullah is absolutely right that we are not ready.
15:05 And we will not be ready by the time
15:08 when there is no substantive change in the environment.
15:12 What change can come, I cannot predict,
15:14 nor can he.
15:15 But let us see.
15:16 I know the Sharifs very well.
15:18 I know Nawaz Sharif very well.
15:20 And I have known him for 50 years.
15:21 I know him for more than that.
15:22 There is a lot of contradiction in what he says and does, Mr. Kashif.
15:25 I am not criticizing him, but he is.
15:27 He is a politician of the same kind,
15:29 who says something and does something.
15:31 Mr. Khan says what he says and does.
15:33 He never says anything.
15:34 He says it on his own terms.
15:37 He has a political view, so there is a slight difference.
15:40 But there is no contradiction in what he says and does.
15:42 He does what he says.
15:43 If there is a mistake, he also accepts that it is a mistake.
15:46 He does not say that.
15:47 This is a different discussion.
15:48 He does not say anything and does nothing.
15:51 What can I say about Rana Sanaullah?
15:55 I will be very honest with you.
15:58 We do not want any kind of engagement with these three political parties.
16:02 Sir, if you want to give some basic directions to this country,
16:08 you have to sit with everyone.
16:11 If you want to take the government, you can do that.
16:14 You can criticize them.
16:15 You can criticize them.
16:16 But if you want to set the principles of this country,
16:21 you have to set the rules.
16:25 You have to fix the rules.
16:26 You have to set the rules.
16:27 You have to fix the rules.
16:28 You have to set the rules.
16:29 You have to fix the rules.
16:30 You have to set the rules.
16:31 You have to fix the rules.
16:32 You have to set the rules.
16:33 You have to fix the rules.
16:34 You have to set the rules.
16:35 You have to fix the rules.
16:36 You have to set the rules.
16:37 You have to fix the rules.
16:38 You have to set the rules.
16:39 You have to fix the rules.
16:40 You have to set the rules.
16:41 You have to fix the rules.
16:42 You have to set the rules.
16:43 You have to fix the rules.
16:44 You have to set the rules.
16:45 You have to fix the rules.
16:46 You have to set the rules.
16:47 You have to set the rules.
16:48 You have to set the rules.
16:49 You have to set the rules.
16:50 You have to set the rules.
16:51 You have to set the rules.
16:52 You have to set the rules.
16:53 You have to set the rules.
16:54 You have to set the rules.
16:55 You have to set the rules.
16:56 You have to set the rules.
16:57 You have to set the rules.
16:58 You have to set the rules.
16:59 You have to set the rules.
17:00 You have to set the rules.
17:01 You have to set the rules.
17:02 You have to set the rules.
17:03 You have to set the rules.
17:04 You have to set the rules.
17:05 You have to set the rules.
17:06 You have to set the rules.
17:07 You have to set the rules.
17:08 You have to set the rules.
17:09 You have to set the rules.
17:10 You have to set the rules.
17:11 You have to set the rules.
17:12 (speaking in foreign language)
17:15 It's a movement for restoration of the Constitution.
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17:45 The rule of law (speaking in foreign language)
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18:51 Anyways, that being said.
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19:32 There is a relationship of mistrust, basically.
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20:01 On the face of it, on the face of it,
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20:25 They can, you know, the kind of mistrust
20:29 that even now exists between PTI and JUI,
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20:48 So there is a mutual mistrust, element of mutual mistrust.
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21:03 Maybe it takes a couple of years or longer or less,
21:13 but it's what the immediate (speaking in foreign language)
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29:22 We can at least put up a better fight come next election.
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