Rep. Greg Stanton (D-AZ) joined Maggie McGrath on 'Forbes Newsroom' to discuss Arizona's Supreme Court reinstating a Civil War-era abortion rule.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hi, everyone. I'm Maggie McGrath, the editor of Forbes Women, and today we are talking
00:07about news out of Arizona that affects women's health and women's ability to access healthcare.
00:14We are joined by Congressman Greg Stanton. He represents Arizona's 4th District. Congressman,
00:19thank you so much for joining us. I'm glad to be here.
00:23On Tuesday, the Arizona Supreme Court upheld a law from 1864 that bans nearly all abortions.
00:32I want to start with a very simple but perhaps complicated question. How exactly did this
00:37come to pass?
00:38Well, it is a dark day in Arizona, a dark day that will hurt women across our state.
00:46Women, their lives will be at risk because of this legal decision, but not just a legal
00:52decision, the political decisions that led up to it. So what happened is that Arizona
00:58has had this law on the books since 1864 that is a near total ban on abortion, no exceptions
01:05for rape and incest. When Roe v. Wade was passed by the United States Supreme Court,
01:12when that was the decision of the United States Supreme Court, it put a stay on this 1864
01:16law. Over the years, the Arizona legislature has put some restrictions on access to abortion
01:23services for women across Arizona, but they never, ever repealed the 1864 law. And in
01:31a very cynical move, just a couple of years ago, the legislature passed a 15-week ban
01:37with no exception for rape or incest, but they specifically put in a provision that
01:42said the 1864 law is not preempted. It did so at the request of some very right-wing
01:49organizations that were hoping the Supreme Court would overturn Roe, and therefore the
01:551864 law would still be in place. Sadly and tragically, that's exactly how this played
02:01out. They never preempted the 1864 law. The Supreme Court did issue the Dobbs decision
02:08overruling Roe v. Wade, and therefore this 1864 law went into place. This was challenged
02:16by Planned Parenthood and others saying that the 15-week ban should be the law in Arizona,
02:21but the Arizona Supreme Court just yesterday issued its ruling saying this territorial
02:27law that was passed even before Arizona became a state, at a time when women could not even
02:36vote, when Native Americans were not considered fully human under law in the United States.
02:45A law from that time period is now the law of the land again in the state of Arizona,
02:50and that's why it's a dark day in our state. How soon does this go into effect? Because
02:56there have been reports that the state attorney general has said that she will not enforce it,
03:00she is against this. There's of course the ballot measure that we can talk about
03:05in a little bit, but effectively this news came this week, so do abortions stop immediately,
03:12or do folks have some time? Okay, this is under legal dispute as well. Certainly the
03:17Supreme Court gave I think a 15-day period for the plaintiff organizations to go back
03:23to the trial court and see if the trial court would stay the opinion for any reason. That's
03:2915 days. There was an agreement earlier on in this litigation under a previous attorney general
03:35that would add an additional 45 days after any final decision before we'd go into order. So
03:40most people think 60 days is the time period where this becomes actually in place in the
03:48state of Arizona. And yes, we do have a very important initiative on the ballot in Arizona
03:54that would restore the protections under Roe v. Wade in the Arizona Constitution,
04:01and I support that and I think it's the right thing. I think now the voters of Arizona,
04:06to the extent there was any question, are going to overwhelmingly support this initiative to send
04:13a strong message that when it comes to civil and constitutional rights, including this right to
04:18abortion services, which has been in place for 50 years before the Dobbs decision, it was settled
04:25law in this country. First time in America we've gone backwards on constitutional rights. We're
04:31going to restore that right and send a message that in our country, we go forwards on civil
04:36and constitutional rights, not backwards. We had received an update just the other week from folks
04:42out of Arizona about that ballot initiative. Is that officially on the ballot or are you waiting
04:47for the final few thousand signatures needed to get that officially on the ballot? Well, I'm so
04:52proud of all of the volunteers who have done amazing work. The initiative campaign recently
04:58announced that they passed the 500,000 signature threshold, an amazing accomplishment, but they
05:05still got more time and so they are out collecting even more signatures. I forget what the exact
05:11number of ballot signatures was, 300 and some odd thousand, certainly the highest number
05:18ever in Arizona history needed to get initiative on the ballot because it is a constitutional
05:22amendment. But as I sit here right now, I have a high level of confidence that they will get
05:28the sufficient number of signatures, including the additional buffer necessary in case there's
05:33a challenge, that they will get those signatures and there will be an initiative on this ballot
05:38and people can run to that ballot box and vote in favor of restoring constitutional rights,
05:44including the right to abortion services. So effectively 60-ish days from now, a near total
05:50ban will take place, but in November you're confident for a vote. Let's fast forward those
05:5560 days. What can women and people of Arizona expect the reproductive health landscape to look
06:01like in Arizona? Well, yesterday after I found out about this horrific decision by the Arizona
06:07Supreme Court, I spoke to providers and they told me, number one, their patients are terrified,
06:13terrified of this decision, what it means for their lives, their families' lives. The provider
06:19told me that certainly, you know, some patients that need abortion services will be able to travel
06:25to California, some will have the financial means to do so, but many, many women will not have that
06:32capability and this will have a devastating impact and certainly it will have an impact on
06:37women's health that need these services for their own health and safety. This will put women's lives
06:45at risk as a result of this decision. It's a decision that simply cannot stand. It won't stand.
06:52Not just women, but all Arizonans are going to, I believe, overwhelmingly send a strong message
06:59in saying this decision, this cynical policymaking by anti-choice folks, mostly Republicans,
07:07mostly Republicans, these cynical decisions that led to this, they could have taken care of this.
07:13People are smart. You're not going to pull a fast one on them. They know exactly
07:17who's responsible for this and I think the overwhelming vote is going to go in the other
07:22direction in support of restoring these rights. When you say they know who exactly is responsible
07:28for this, who do you hold responsible for this decision? Well, it really is the Arizona
07:36legislature and the former governor who passed a very cynical law in just a couple years ago
07:44in which they tried to suggest that they were in favor of a 15-week ban as a law in Arizona,
07:50but did not repeal the 1864 law. If they were serious, that they had the courage of their
07:56convictions, they would have repealed this 1864 law so this wouldn't even be an issue in Arizona,
08:03but they wanted to send a message to the extreme right wing that, wink, wink, we're with you still.
08:09You know, we're going to try to have it both ways and so this is, I don't think they really
08:14thought that the Arizona Supreme Court would do this and I've seen my anti-choice friends
08:21who have, were chairing the Dobbs decision, have supported life at conception bills, now twisting
08:29themselves like a pretzel trying to explain why they think this Arizona Supreme Court ruling was
08:36the wrong decision. You can't square that circle. It's impossible and they should have made it clear
08:44if they were going to be on the support of abortion rights, they should have made that clear
08:50previously and they didn't and so people are smart. They know exactly what's going on.
08:55They try to have it both ways. You can't really do that in politics.
08:59Now, obviously, you represent the fourth district in Arizona, but let's just look nationally. If
09:05someone from New York or Pennsylvania or Virginia is watching this interview, why should they care
09:11about something happening in Arizona? Because they could very easily say, well, that's Arizona.
09:16I don't live there. It doesn't affect me. Okay, well, if you want to live naively and think that
09:22it won't affect you eventually, this entire movement, Life Begins at Conception, the anti-IVF
09:28movement, which is real in the United States of America, the desire of these right-wing groups to
09:34try to get a national abortion ban passed, a right-wing Supreme Court, you know, I guess even
09:41the former President Trump tried to disavow this decision. Well, this decision is a result of
09:49the Dobbs decision, which is exactly what he promised he would do as president is put
09:54right-wing judges on the Supreme Court to overturn Roe. There's a direct line between
10:00that Supreme Court decision and what happened in Arizona and if you don't think you're going to
10:05come after mifepristone or contraception, you're fooling yourself. If you don't think they're going
10:13to try to, at the national level, based upon the strong push by these right-wing groups,
10:19go after things that people in the blue states rely on, that families rely on, who would have
10:25thought that even IVF services would somehow become illegal in a state in this country?
10:34So, no one should get comfortable no matter what state you live in. We need to speak loudly in this
10:40upcoming election. Obviously, I support President Biden, who has been a strong supporter, strong,
10:46consistent supporter of abortion rights in this country. That's what I think the voters are going
10:52to support in light of this horrific decision is not Johnny-come-latelys who are trying to take a
10:58safe political position at the last minute. Those who they know have been strong and consistent
11:03supporters of abortion rights here in the United States of America, that's who's going to do well
11:08in this upcoming election. You've been outspoken against this decision even speaking on the House
11:13floor the other night and you came out and you said, I am angry about this. Why was it important
11:18for you to make that statement on the House floor and has anything come of it? Any reactions, any
11:23phone calls you've gotten in response to your statement on the House floor? Well, I said I was
11:29angry on the House floor because that's the nicest thing I could have said. You know, I heard from a
11:36lot of people in Arizona. They are healed. They cannot believe this is happening in our state
11:47and they are angry that political leaders have allowed this to even get to this point and I think
11:56that the initiative that we talked about earlier, it was going to pass already but now it's going to
12:03be supercharged, if you will. You're going to see a surge of support for the initiative and for
12:11elected officials that have been strong and consistent supporters of abortion rights in
12:16intensity that we haven't seen before and intensity matters in elections because that affects voter
12:24turnout, the voter turnout numbers, which there were a lot of stories about those of us who feel
12:30the way I feel about the right abortion rights and the right to an abortion and the fact that it was
12:36ripped away by the Supreme Court, that there was going to be concern about passion in this election.
12:42Well, not anymore. The people who support restoration of constitutional rights, they are
12:50fired up and they are angry and I was trying to express that anger on behalf of the people of
12:55Arizona on the floor of the United States House of Representatives. So a lot coming up, a ballot
13:01initiative, obviously a November election. Anything else? What's next for this issue and for you?
13:08Well, a lot of things. Number one, the initiative in Arizona is very important and it should pass
13:14and we should put these protections into the Arizona Constitution but make no mistake, there
13:22is no substitute for doing this at the federal level because civil and constitutional rights
13:30should not be a state-by-state thing where you have certain constitutional rights in one state
13:36but they can be taken away in another. That's not how it works. We're Americans. If you have a
13:40constitutional right, you have that right in every single state. So we need to pass the Women's Health
13:45Protection Act at the federal level and if any senator thinks that protecting the filibuster
13:52is more important than protecting constitutional rights, just look at the anger in Arizona right
13:58now. I might suggest that your priority should be protecting constitutional rights and not a
14:04Senate rule, an archaic rule from many years ago and you should allow for the political process
14:11to take its course and have the House, the Senate, and President Biden sign the Women's Health
14:16Protection Act so that we can restore Roe v. Wade as the law of the land in Arizona where I think
14:22most people thought that that was the right balancing on this most important issue and
14:27protecting this constitutional right. Representative Greg Stanton, thank you
14:32so much for joining us. We really appreciate your time. Thank you for the good conversation.