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Hosh: Waseem Badami
Guest:
- Maleeha Lodhi
- Aizaz Ahmad Chaudhry
- Ali Muhammad Khan
- Hina Rabbani Khar

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Transcript
00:00 [Music]
00:20 Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim, Assalamu Alaikum.
00:22 Happy Eid to all of you.
00:24 Thank you for your appreciation and appreciation of Ramadan.
00:29 I am Wasim Adami and you are watching Arwa News for Programme 11th Hour.
00:32 And there has been such a big development in the global landscape
00:35 that it has somehow somehow taken the whole world in its lap.
00:38 This is the biggest topic in the world at the moment.
00:42 The situation in Gaza was going on, the Israeli occupation was going on,
00:46 barbarism was touching its new levels.
00:49 Every passing day, even the month of Ramadan was no exception.
00:52 Now this situation was going on that a new development was taking place in this period.
00:55 And every country was doing its own reaction and everything through proxies.
00:59 Now this situation was going on that a new development was taking place in this period.
01:02 When Israel attacked the Iranian embassy in Syria.
01:07 Some high profile people were targeted in it.
01:10 And 13 people lost their lives in it.
01:13 After that they said that will Iran answer this?
01:16 And in such an environment when these things were happening
01:18 that will Iran attack Israel?
01:20 Over the weekend, a development took place that
01:23 Israel launched an attack on Israel.
01:26 More than 300 different types of weapons were fired from Iran towards Israel.
01:32 This is the first incident of its kind in recent history.
01:35 A very big development.
01:37 Obviously, Iran has claimed that
01:40 that it has hit targets, especially the air base
01:44 from where Israel had targeted.
01:47 The Iranian embassy in Damascus has also been hit.
01:50 Israel has said that they have failed in most cases.
01:53 But Israel has also officially admitted that
01:55 this attack has been successful in this place or this air base.
01:59 Now this is the background of all this.
02:02 And there are many questions arising from this.
02:05 Which we will try to answer with some people who are related to this.
02:08 So that we can answer this on a general level and on an easy level.
02:11 For example, will Israel answer this?
02:14 If Israel answers this, what will it say?
02:17 Because Iran is saying that you started this attack on Israel.
02:20 And we have ended it.
02:22 If you answer this, we will give a more harsh answer.
02:24 So if Israel answers this, what will Iran do?
02:27 America has said to Israel that we are with you.
02:29 But if you attack Iran, then we will not stand with you.
02:32 So what is the matter?
02:34 Saudi Arabia, which is obvious, we know from the tradition
02:37 that what is the opinion of Iran and then the opinion of America.
02:40 And at this time, when Saudi Minister of Foreign Affairs is talking to you,
02:43 he is present in Pakistan.
02:45 But Saudi Arabia has not expressed its condolences to Iran.
02:49 In fact, there are contacts between the two countries.
02:52 So what can be the role of Pakistan?
02:54 Or Pakistan can get stuck in a strange situation.
02:57 There are many questions arising from this.
03:00 Before we talk to the guests,
03:02 you see, the Salamati Council has been called for a discussion.
03:04 Because our next guest is also a member of the United Nations,
03:07 and is very relevant in this regard.
03:09 The Salamati Council has been called for a discussion.
03:11 What did Iran say? And what did Israel say?
03:13 Please look at each of the pages.
03:15 Let's first look at Iran's position in the Salamati Council.
03:19 To self-defense, as outlined in Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations
03:26 and recognized by international law.
03:29 This concluded action was necessary and proportionate.
03:34 It was precise and only targeted military objectives
03:39 and carried out carefully to minimize the potential for escalation
03:44 and prevent civilian harm.
03:47 We have tried to attack in a calculated manner.
03:51 We have also attacked in a precise and calculated manner.
03:54 We have also given a message that we will respond if you do this.
04:00 But we do not want to increase this.
04:02 But if you respond, then the matter can be increased.
04:05 This is the statement of Iran.
04:08 And Israel has also put its position in the Salamati Council.
04:11 Look at that too.
04:12 Iran arms themselves with intercontinental ballistic missiles, ICBMs.
04:18 Iran and Israel are on the same continent.
04:21 You are next.
04:23 The Ayatollah regime acts like the Nazi regime.
04:28 When the Israeli population is on the rise,
04:33 when the children in Gaza are dying of hunger and thirst,
04:39 and when the Israeli bombardment is going on day and night,
04:42 the representatives of Israel in the Salamati Council say that
04:45 Iran has missiles.
04:47 This is a dangerous thing.
04:48 You can also be targeted.
04:49 You are next.
04:50 Because we all live in the same world.
04:52 Anyway, as I said,
04:54 let's try to find answers to some basic questions in an easy and easy manner.
04:58 Let's start with the former Pakistani representative in the UN,
05:02 Maliha Lodi Sahab,
05:04 and of course, the former ambassador in the United States of America,
05:06 Maliha Lodi Sahab is with us.
05:08 Thank you very much.
05:09 Azaz Ahmed Chaudhry,
05:11 who was a former Pakistani ambassador for America,
05:15 and a former secretary of foreign affairs,
05:17 is also with us.
05:18 Thank you very much.
05:19 Maliha Sahab, Assalamu Alaikum.
05:21 Walaikum Assalam.
05:23 Thank you very much for your time.
05:24 First of all, tell us,
05:26 what do you think Israel will do in response to what has happened?
05:33 And if it does, what will it do?
05:35 Look, right now, Israel is under a lot of pressure from the United States,
05:39 which does not want Israel to take any such step,
05:43 which will obviously,
05:45 Iran has warned that they will definitely respond
05:50 if there is an Israeli attack on their country.
05:53 So, I think that the situation right now is such that
05:56 the international community,
05:58 which does not have any country other than Israel,
06:02 which does not want peace,
06:05 which wants a de-escalation,
06:08 no one wants a further escalation,
06:12 no country wants this war to spread further in the region.
06:17 So, there are dangers of a regional war.
06:20 But I think that America wants this war to spread.
06:25 Iran does not want it either.
06:26 Iran has repeatedly said,
06:27 and you have just heard the speech of their UN permanent representative,
06:32 it is obvious that they said that
06:36 they did not want the situation to escalate from the attack.
06:42 That is why,
06:43 Iran's response was very measured to the Israeli attack.
06:48 And you know the Israeli attack,
06:51 they have been blowing international law for a long time.
06:54 And they acted with impunity.
06:57 They violated the Vienna Convention,
06:59 they violated international law.
07:01 But you see,
07:02 Western countries condemn Iran,
07:05 but they have not condemned the attack that Israel carried out.
07:08 Yes.
07:09 And this is a surprise to Israel,
07:14 who has become accustomed to doing whatever it wants all over the world,
07:17 for which you quoted examples.
07:19 And no retaliatory attack on it,
07:22 no one even said a few words.
07:24 Israel has become accustomed to this.
07:26 For Israel,
07:28 it is a big surprise that a country attacked.
07:32 This has more importance of optics than calculating how many were injured,
07:36 how many died.
07:37 It is very important in terms of optics,
07:39 that a country,
07:40 knowing the position of Israel,
07:42 knowing how America is standing,
07:44 took this initiative and went so far.
07:46 No, Haseeb,
07:48 but it is not just about optics.
07:50 The step that Iran took,
07:52 they have changed the rules of the game in the Middle East.
07:56 They have shown that
07:58 we took a lot of patience,
08:02 because you know that Israel has been involved for so many years.
08:06 Either they kill their nuclear scientists,
08:09 or they assassinate them,
08:10 or they go and attack their interests in other countries as well.
08:14 So Iran never responded in this way.
08:18 In fact,
08:20 you can say that there was a covert war between these two countries.
08:25 But there was never an open war.
08:29 But when Israel did this,
08:31 Iran said that this is our red line,
08:34 and if you cross this red line,
08:36 then you will always get an answer.
08:39 And every time,
08:40 our answer will be bigger.
08:42 That is, we will give a much bigger answer than what we just gave.
08:45 So I think that Israel must have been shaken by this.
08:50 Because many people think that they have made a miscalculation.
08:55 They did not even calculate that Iran can do something like this.
09:00 Then I think that their other calculation is proving to be wrong.
09:04 Although we cannot say anything with so much confidence.
09:07 And that is that the US will not go with them in any military action.
09:12 So they must have thought that if we take action now,
09:16 then the US will also do it with us.
09:18 So if Biden has given an ultimatum in two words to the Israeli Prime Minister,
09:26 that we will not participate,
09:28 and you should act patiently.
09:30 You see, the UN Security Council meeting that you mentioned,
09:34 the word that everyone was repeating,
09:39 what was that? It was restraint.
09:42 Everyone wants de-escalation.
09:46 And everyone wants Israel to stop its hand and not do anything else.
09:52 Because it is also happening that all the attention and focus is being removed from Gaza.
09:58 And that too is a very sad thing.
10:03 Although it is going there.
10:06 I want to stay with you for a while, Mr. Ibrahim Ali.
10:09 I have a basic question for you.
10:12 In your opinion, is this a matter of surprise or surprise for Israel?
10:18 That Israel, which has been used to not going beyond the limits,
10:23 and obviously, the retaliatory attack is on the other side,
10:25 and no one speaks retaliatory sentences.
10:27 There are new rules and rules of the game set there.
10:29 If you go to this extent, then the answer will also come.
10:33 Is this a unique incident in the world's recent history in Israel's view?
10:40 [Ibrahim Ali] Yes, to a large extent.
10:42 I believe Dr. Sahiba that the covert was going on between them.
10:48 Israel has been doing something against Iran, their nuclear facilities,
10:52 their nuclear scientists, their conventional experts.
10:57 Iran also has proxies in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq.
11:03 So this is going on.
11:05 But the direct attack that Israel did on Iran's embassy,
11:09 I think they had two goals.
11:15 The first goal was to remove the attention from Gaza in such a way
11:20 that the pressure on them was increasing.
11:23 That is, the United States, which has vetoed all the agreements,
11:28 abstained from the last agreement and started talking about the ceasefire.
11:34 That is, the motto of self-defense, that Israel is in self-defense,
11:39 has changed to ceasefire.
11:41 The pressure on Israel was increasing a lot.
11:43 The ICJ was also being raised.
11:45 So, to draw attention, it was better that someone provoke it on Iran,
11:49 that they bring it in the middle.
11:51 But I think they miscalculated here.
11:55 Because if Iran didn't do this kind of work on them,
12:00 they would have become a lion.
12:02 But Iran did it, so now Netanyahu and his company
12:06 are facing a big dilemma in their country.
12:10 If they answer, the matter will increase a lot.
12:14 And America does not want to come to that war on their behalf.
12:17 So what can they do?
12:19 Sir, please explain why America has reacted in this way.
12:23 Obviously, America and Israel are not hiding their friendship from anyone.
12:27 So why did America say that if you do this,
12:31 Iran will not stand with you.
12:33 There is a bipartisan consensus in America.
12:37 That is, there is a complete consensus that Israel should be supported.
12:42 And Iran should be opposed.
12:44 But another consensus has also developed.
12:47 That we will not participate in long-range wars.
12:50 Neither did the Iraq war benefit, nor did the Afghanistan war benefit.
12:54 So America does not want to participate at all.
12:56 But they are also in danger.
12:58 If America gets involved, then Russia will also come from there.
13:01 And it will become a state of world war.
13:04 So that's why I think America has played very safe.
13:10 They said that we should tell Israel beforehand that we do not want to participate in this war.
13:15 This is the reason why I think America is not in a position to participate.
13:17 Mr. Irdaad, do you see the statement of Saudi Arabia in this context?
13:21 Because obviously, there is no secret from this that Saudi Arabia and Iran have their own past.
13:26 And Saudi Arabia and America have their own past.
13:29 Which is positive.
13:30 But in this regard, there is a contact between the two countries.
13:34 Saudi Arabia is not apologizing, but it is also talking about restraint.
13:38 Mr. Irdaad, in what context do you see the Saudi Arabia statement in this position?
13:42 I was saying that no country in the world, except Israel, wants war.
13:48 So even Arab countries do not want war.
13:50 Because so many plans were being made by these people.
13:53 They have initiated an economic transformation.
13:56 Social changes are coming to them.
13:59 They are bringing their capital from the west to the east.
14:03 So much is happening.
14:04 In this context, they do not want war at all.
14:08 Because all their plans will be left in the dust.
14:10 And they also see that Iran has not taken any action.
14:14 Israel has taken this step.
14:16 That is why I think Saudi Arabia and all Arab countries will be against war.
14:21 And do you think Israel will do anything?
14:24 Will it do anything stupid again?
14:27 Yes, it will do a little.
14:29 It will do it for face-saving and for its domestic audience.
14:32 But I don't think it will be that big.
14:35 Because it will be a big miscalculation if it does.
14:38 Because the answer will come from Iran.
14:40 And maybe it will not be able to support it.
14:42 See, Iran is a very big country.
14:44 It has a lot of depth.
14:46 And the US sanctions on Iran for 40-45 years did not do anything.
14:53 So what can Israel do?
14:55 That is why I think Israel may not make this miscalculation.
14:58 But if it does, it will have very bad consequences.
15:02 Surprisingly, Iran has started all its local products after the world sanctions.
15:11 Now, Dr. Bhai, please explain to us how much chance is there in this situation
15:16 that any such situation arises where Pakistan is in a difficult situation with regard to the embassy.
15:20 Because, of course, after all this, the first visit of the Iranian president will be of Pakistan on 22nd.
15:27 And then, of course, we are a neighboring country.
15:29 So can Pakistan get stuck in some mess with all these circumstances?
15:34 No, I don't think there is any such danger.
15:37 But it is certain that if this war spreads in the Middle East,
15:42 which I don't see much chance of, but suppose that war spreads.
15:48 And that war brings Israel to Iran.
15:51 Iran is our neighbor country.
15:53 Then our region will also be destabilized from it.
15:56 And with that destabilization, of course, it will have negative effects on Pakistan.
16:01 And then, there is also an economic dimension.
16:04 There is also an economic factor.
16:06 If there is a long war, or a regional conflict, then the price of oil will rise.
16:16 And then, of course, our economy is already so weak.
16:19 Weak economy.
16:20 So it will have a very bad effect on us.
16:23 So, I mean, economic impact is not only on oil.
16:26 But overall, in that situation, I think, politically and economically,
16:32 the effects on Pakistan will obviously be negative.
16:35 But only in Pakistan.
16:36 It will be in other countries as well.
16:38 So specifically, I think, there is no such challenge for Pakistan that we will get stuck in something.
16:44 But it is certain that if there is more instability,
16:49 in our very own country, in our neighboring country, then it will have an effect.
16:55 And Mr. Eidat, is this your opinion or your different opinion?
16:58 One is that there will be some effects, which will be global.
17:00 No one will be safe from it.
17:01 That is different.
17:02 But in the view of Afghanistan, Pakistan has become a completely different case study.
17:06 That we are stuck in many different ways.
17:08 If this matter goes ahead, do you see such a situation or do you not understand?
17:12 No, I am not going to see that matter.
17:16 But if, see this is a completely hypothetical situation.
17:19 If this happens, then I agree that Pakistan will be in its own hands.
17:24 All the effects that will be there, will be for the whole region.
17:29 Maybe for the whole world, Pakistan will be there as well.
17:31 But for now, the situation that Pakistan has adopted,
17:35 is that we have always supported the Palestinians.
17:39 This is not the first time, we have always done it.
17:41 And we have not made an embassy in Israel, although we have made an embassy in India.
17:45 So, Pakistan is very clear and we have also expressed this suggestion.
17:49 That we want to escalate.
17:50 So, Pakistan could have done this at this time.
17:53 Maybe Pakistan should not have done more than that.
17:55 And I think there is no need for more than that.
17:58 Towards the end, both of you tell me, starting from you Dr. Sahiba,
18:02 that this is the root of the real matter,
18:04 that is, the whole matter of Gaza and Israel,
18:07 which is also related to all the issues,
18:08 which came out, where it started and where it reached.
18:11 What impact can the current situation of Gaza have on this progress,
18:16 in the last 100 hours,
18:18 from a positive or negative angle, from the angle of Muslim Ummah?
18:22 Look, temporarily, what has happened is that the focus has shifted from there.
18:26 And the focus has shifted to Iran and Israel's confrontation.
18:32 But I think it has another effect,
18:36 you can say, the impact that can happen,
18:39 what I see is that at this time,
18:42 there are so many threats that this war may not spread,
18:47 and other countries may get involved in its mess.
18:50 And as Azad Sahib was also saying,
18:51 that big countries may also get involved in it.
18:54 So, to avoid that, it is possible that the army forces
18:59 go more seriously towards a ceasefire for Gaza.
19:03 So, we will have to see if there is any change in the Security Council
19:08 in which it can call for such a ceasefire,
19:12 and then the US can restrict Israel.
19:15 Because the last ceasefire call was for Ramadan,
19:20 but they did not even act on it.
19:23 Israel has created a mess.
19:25 So, it is possible that to avoid a big war,
19:32 all the influential powers in the world will get together
19:37 and say that there are differences,
19:39 and there are many differences,
19:41 because of which no decision-makers have come.
19:44 One country vetoes,
19:46 and the US vetoed.
19:48 So, it is possible that there will be a more serious effort
19:52 for a ceasefire in Gaza.
19:55 And what do you think,
19:57 what will be the effect of this whole situation on Gaza?
20:00 I also think that Israel is under pressure,
20:03 international pressure is also increasing,
20:06 and Israel's own people are also under pressure.
20:08 You see, when you have bombs and missiles,
20:12 you can see the state of Israel's own people.
20:15 Until now, they were only killing them,
20:17 they were hostages.
20:18 Now, there is a situation where Netanyahu is under tremendous pressure.
20:24 So, I think that will also go towards a ceasefire.
20:27 I also think so.
20:29 And Mr. Tordjian, tell us,
20:31 what would you call this,
20:36 immature approach,
20:38 that they did not get hurt,
20:41 how many fell, how many died.
20:43 This is a big development in itself,
20:45 that Iran launched 300+ different devices on Israel.
20:50 Or should we see it in this perspective,
20:53 how many fell, how many were injured, and what happened?
20:56 No, no, look,
20:57 they did it very carefully,
20:59 the airspace was cleared,
21:01 the planes did not come from there,
21:03 and their purpose was not only this,
21:05 the purpose was that we can answer,
21:07 and we have the ability to answer.
21:09 This was not the purpose,
21:10 otherwise, you know, they did not even drop it on the civilian population.
21:13 I think it was very immature,
21:15 it was a very measured, very proportionate response,
21:18 very mature, very responsible way Iran behaved,
21:22 the message went very loud and clear.
21:24 If you see, first Israel said this,
21:27 and maybe America also said that we have dropped all of them,
21:30 no one reached.
21:31 Then they thought that now we will not have a chance to attack again,
21:35 so then they showed some pictures that they have come to this base,
21:38 so that something can be done.
21:40 I do not think that now they are in this position,
21:44 that they can ignore this,
21:46 that these few missiles came,
21:48 we dropped some, we did not drop some,
21:50 Iran has a very large stockpile of missiles,
21:52 so I think Israel will not do this kind of nonsense.
21:56 Thank you very much.
21:57 Thank you very much.
21:58 Thank you very much.
21:59 Malia Lodi Sahiba and Reza Saudari Sahiba,
22:01 United States, United Nations,
22:03 they were all talking in this context.
22:05 Hinar Abani Khar Sahiba, of course,
22:06 is the Foreign Minister of Pakistan,
22:08 so let us take some opinions from this angle as well.
22:11 We tried to understand from the outside lens,
22:13 Hinar Abani Khar Sahiba, of course,
22:15 her interaction with her position,
22:17 all the external powers,
22:19 but let us try to understand the situation from the lens here.
22:23 Hinar Abani Khar Sahiba is with us.
22:24 Assalamu Alaikum Hinar Sahiba.
22:25 Walaikum Assalam.
22:26 First of all, please tell us,
22:28 if I may say, what would be the answer to Iran,
22:31 in what words, if I may say,
22:33 summarize what would you call Iran's response,
22:36 calculated response, or what,
22:38 what words would you choose?
22:41 Look, I think, almost everything that a country does,
22:47 should be seen from the perspective of precedent setting,
22:51 and should be seen from the perspective that
22:53 it is sending a message to others,
22:55 that what is its threshold,
22:57 beyond which it will not accept anything.
22:59 You may remember, recently,
23:01 Iran attacked Pakistan once,
23:03 on the border of Pakistan,
23:05 so Pakistan did not have any option,
23:07 but to show that, if you come on our border,
23:10 then we also have the capacity to come on your border.
23:13 Right.
23:14 The attack on their consulate in Syria,
23:16 and their generals died in it,
23:20 so that was above the threshold that was acceptable,
23:23 because the proxy war,
23:25 you can see, has been going on for so many years,
23:27 it is happening everywhere,
23:29 but that was above,
23:30 so giving a response to that,
23:32 they understood it as important and necessary.
23:34 But one thing that is very interesting,
23:36 which you can see everywhere in international analysis,
23:38 it is seen that,
23:40 all this is a restrained response,
23:44 what does that mean?
23:46 It means that they gave ample warning,
23:49 ample time to prepare their defence,
23:52 ample time to enhance their defence,
23:56 so that their losses,
24:00 are not so much,
24:02 that they also have to give a big response.
24:04 Right.
24:06 So, this is all calculated risk,
24:08 playing out right now.
24:10 But what is the problem?
24:12 In this calculated risk environment,
24:14 the problem is that,
24:16 you take a risk,
24:18 which has a response,
24:20 which is above your threshold,
24:22 and then you have to go up the escalation ladder.
24:25 Now, who knows where that escalation ladder is going to end?
24:28 Right.
24:30 I am not trying to be overly alarming,
24:34 but if you see World War I, World War II,
24:37 so many skirmishes,
24:39 and one murder,
24:41 and because of that,
24:43 the escalation ladder keeps on moving,
24:45 and it spreads all over the world.
24:47 So, we see that,
24:49 many areas are already involved.
24:51 So, this is obviously a tense time.
24:53 But, I would like to say one more thing,
24:55 Mr. Banani,
24:57 Israel has its own credibility,
24:59 and with that,
25:01 the US has its own credibility.
25:03 When the final resolution was passed in the Security Council,
25:05 you saw that,
25:07 an unprecedented thing happened in the Security Council,
25:09 which was the beginning of the war,
25:11 which showed that the United States,
25:13 at that time,
25:15 as Israel's ally,
25:17 was isolated on the world stage.
25:19 Now, for the most important world leader,
25:21 for hegemonic power,
25:23 to be in such a position,
25:25 is a very unique situation.
25:27 So, we are dealing with a whole set of unique situations right now.
25:33 That's right.
25:35 And, I was coming to the same point that you had explained,
25:41 my next question was,
25:43 do you think that in such a vulnerable situation,
25:45 when the world is in a special environment,
25:47 especially after the Palestine issue,
25:49 where there is a lot of vulnerability,
25:51 can this matter go anywhere?
25:53 I saw that this is the opinion of many investigators,
25:55 that this is a big exaggeration,
25:57 if you say that this will lead to a world war,
25:59 and this is understandable.
26:01 But, isn't this a fact that,
26:03 35 days ago,
26:05 60 days ago,
26:07 did anyone think that this day would come,
26:09 that he would attack the embassy of another country,
26:13 and target the people,
26:15 and Iran would respond?
26:17 This situation was not expected 50-60 days ago,
26:19 and it happened.
26:21 So, is it possible that in the next 60-100 days,
26:23 in 6 months,
26:25 a new scenario will arise,
26:27 which we cannot imagine today?
26:29 You are absolutely right.
26:31 Because, if you see,
26:33 what is happening in Gaza,
26:35 or at the level of Israel,
26:37 where they are doing wrong,
26:39 and international law against humanity,
26:41 and the butchering that is happening there,
26:43 and the whole world,
26:45 in some ways,
26:47 is showing their anger,
26:49 nothing more is happening.
26:51 To do a ceasefire,
26:53 to do a ceasefire in a security council,
26:55 to say that this is a ceasefire,
26:57 this is a ceasefire,
26:59 to say that this is a ceasefire,
27:01 this is almost impossible.
27:03 This is a very unprecedented situation,
27:05 and I think,
27:07 this is entirely possible,
27:09 because when you do your risk assessment,
27:11 and look at the thresholds,
27:13 it is very difficult to assess
27:15 where the threshold is.
27:17 And then, sometimes,
27:19 you can overplay or underplay it.
27:21 And the second thing,
27:23 which is the most important,
27:25 is that the analysts you talk about,
27:27 or the analysts you talk about,
27:29 I think they are assuming that
27:31 we are dealing with rational players.
27:33 That we are dealing with rational,
27:35 pragmatic, logical leaders.
27:37 In my opinion,
27:39 if Netanyahu has shown something,
27:41 if Prime Minister Modi has shown something,
27:43 many other people have shown
27:45 in the region and outside the region,
27:47 that they are neither national,
27:49 rational, nor logical,
27:51 nor will they look after their national interests.
27:53 Correct.
27:55 And if you look at Israel
27:57 and US foreign policy,
27:59 and you know,
28:01 many well-known writers say that
28:03 the US foreign policy towards Israel
28:05 is not in the US's own interest.
28:07 You see,
28:09 children are being thrown out on their streets,
28:11 and the younger generation
28:13 does not accept this.
28:15 And you see,
28:17 people start calling out to the people
28:19 who don't speak English.
28:21 Everywhere, there are people rising against this,
28:23 because this is not acceptable
28:25 at a humanitarian level.
28:27 Forget Muslim, non-Muslim.
28:29 South Africa is not a Muslim country.
28:31 Why did it go to court?
28:33 So it's not a Muslim issue,
28:35 it's a humanitarian issue.
28:37 And the way
28:39 the principles that were taught to us
28:41 about Western democracies,
28:43 liberal order,
28:45 human values,
28:47 human rights,
28:49 all of that has fallen under the bomb in Gaza.
28:51 So a new order has to emerge.
28:53 And what kind of order
28:55 will it be,
28:57 how disorderly it will be,
28:59 and how much disorder we will have to go through
29:01 before we reach that new state of order,
29:03 I think that can be anyone's guess.
29:05 We have no recipe for that.
29:07 We have no precedence for that.
29:09 You can't say, "Yes, this happened in World War II."
29:11 Every time, new things come up,
29:13 new threats come up, new situations arise.
29:15 And don't forget,
29:17 through AI,
29:19 through the use of
29:21 lethal autonomous weapons,
29:23 a new,
29:25 very big,
29:27 new framework
29:29 where the risk threshold
29:31 and the possibility of accidents
29:33 are increased.
29:35 Thank you very much.
29:37 Thank you very much, Mr. Manikhar.
29:39 So, you can talk to all three of your guests
29:41 and make an assessment.
29:43 At least, what can be said
29:45 in a very moderate way is that
29:47 we are currently going through
29:49 an extraordinary situation.
29:51 And to say this
29:53 is very naive.
29:55 "No, sir,
29:57 everything is fine."
29:59 This matter, as I said,
30:01 and Mr. Manikhar agreed,
30:03 that 50-60 days ago,
30:05 if anyone was anticipating this situation,
30:07 everyone knew that Israel had pulled out of Iran.
30:09 Everyone knew that Israel was in Gaza,
30:11 and what it was doing.
30:13 Everyone knew that Iran's full support was with Palestine.
30:15 Everyone knew that
30:17 this was not expected.
30:19 So, you never know.
30:21 But let's hope that sanity prevails
30:23 and that the world's
30:25 advocates,
30:27 the world's
30:29 advocates,
30:31 who are willing to die
30:33 for the sake of a hundred animals,
30:35 will be able to make a statement.
30:37 But those hundred children die,
30:39 and they cannot make a statement.
30:41 They make a statement in a different way.
30:43 So, I hope that the situation
30:45 in Gaza is better.
30:47 Now, I will come back to this topic
30:49 which I spoke about in the most important occasion.
30:51 After the break, we will come back
30:53 and talk about some internal politics.
30:55 [Music]
30:57 [Music]
30:59 We will talk about Pakistan's internal politics.
31:01 And one of the senior advocates of Pakistan's
31:03 Jurisprudence is Mr. Ali Mohammad Khan,
31:05 who is with us.
31:07 Huzoor, Assalam-o-Alaikum and happy Eid.
31:09 Hello, Mr. Badami.
31:11 And to you and to all of your viewers,
31:13 Happy Eid and welcome to Islamabad.
31:15 Sorry, I could not
31:17 welcome you properly, but welcome to Islamabad.
31:19 I am very grateful to you.
31:21 Thank you very much.
31:23 I will talk about internal politics briefly,
31:25 but this global scenario is so
31:27 moving that I think we should
31:29 definitely talk about it.
31:31 So, you tell me, do you think
31:33 that obviously, everyone knows about the special
31:35 environment in Pakistan in terms of politics,
31:37 but despite this, it is very important
31:39 that the international community
31:41 should get a clear message
31:43 from the entire nation,
31:45 from the entire political leadership,
31:47 from all institutions,
31:49 that the entire nation and its leadership
31:51 are in a state of chaos.
31:53 And the way the movement is moving
31:55 in Gaza, and the way it is attacking
31:57 the embassy in Syria, and killing
31:59 children in Gaza, and killing children
32:01 out of hunger, we should at least
32:03 try to send a message to the world
32:05 that this nation, which is called
32:07 the nation of Israel, should be united
32:09 in this matter by all its people
32:11 and its leadership, by all its people
32:13 and its people should unite in this matter
32:15 by all its differences.
32:17 We are with the oppressor,
32:19 we are against the oppressor,
32:21 we are with the oppressed.
32:23 I can't agree more, Mr. Badami.
32:25 There has been a lot of oppression,
32:27 especially on the day of Eid,
32:29 which they did in Gaza.
32:31 You must have seen the clouds of smoke,
32:33 the flames rising to the sky.
32:35 Look, one is oppression,
32:37 and the other is to do oppression
32:39 and to make fun of it.
32:41 As you must have seen in every Ramadan,
32:43 that they attack the Qibla-e-Awal.
32:45 Some of the things in my life
32:47 that can never be erased from my mind,
32:49 can never be forgotten,
32:51 one of them is that a couple of years ago,
32:53 when they attacked the Holy House,
32:55 and when I talk about it,
32:57 you will remember,
32:59 your viewers will also remember,
33:01 that the flames of fire
33:03 are rising from the Holy House,
33:05 and outside,
33:07 not the Jews,
33:09 we are not against Jews,
33:11 but the Zionists,
33:13 that is, it is a religion,
33:15 Jews, they also have the right to live,
33:17 but where there is oppression,
33:19 we are against it.
33:21 The Zionists are dancing on the drums outside,
33:23 inside the mosque, the Aqsa is burning.
33:25 This was the slap
33:27 on the face of the entire Muslim Ummah.
33:29 So Iran has retaliated,
33:31 and has responded.
33:33 Today, I also spoke at another place,
33:35 maybe in the program of
33:37 Mr. Ahmed Mir and in your program,
33:39 I am saying, see, this is our
33:41 brother Islamic country, Iran,
33:43 it is also our neighbor,
33:45 even if we have a worst enemy,
33:47 and he is standing with Palestine,
33:49 and is against Israel,
33:51 we should support him.
33:53 We should fully support Iran,
33:55 and we should not leave them alone in the world.
33:57 Other things keep happening,
33:59 diplomacy also keeps happening,
34:01 Henry Kissinger has also written big books on this,
34:03 and we will talk about all kinds of
34:05 diplomats from all over the world,
34:07 but this is also a humanitarian crisis,
34:09 but I want to add one thing to this.
34:11 This is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza,
34:15 but they are being attacked
34:17 because they are Palestinians,
34:19 they are Muslims.
34:21 After 9/11,
34:23 Iraq, Libya,
34:25 Iran,
34:27 Palestine, Pakistan,
34:29 Afghanistan, you name it and you have it.
34:31 No one,
34:33 God forbid,
34:35 I am not saying that you should attack
34:37 a Christian or any other religious country,
34:39 no big power,
34:41 but only the Muslim Ummah,
34:43 Muslim countries are being targeted,
34:45 and this is a personal matter,
34:47 anyway, I think that the way you spoke
34:49 in the beginning,
34:51 I agree with it 1000%,
34:53 on this issue,
34:55 we should keep Pakistan's position
34:57 the same as the Qaid-e-Azam's position
34:59 on the matter of Israel,
35:01 and we will all support the government
35:03 if the government takes a strong stand,
35:05 even if the government
35:07 does not translate our sentiments,
35:09 does not translate the Muslim Ummah,
35:11 the traditional position of Pakistan
35:13 against Israel and the Palestinians,
35:15 if it is standing on it,
35:17 then we will stand with the government.
35:19 Absolutely right,
35:21 this is a very good point,
35:23 and we have come to a very special issue,
35:25 as a whole, tell us,
35:27 Zardari Sahib,
35:29 Bhutto Sahib's Barsi,
35:31 yesterday he was talking about
35:33 the President of Pakistan,
35:35 not the head of the party,
35:37 he was talking about the country,
35:39 and Bilawal Sahib also said the same,
35:41 tell us your opinion on that,
35:43 Zardari Sahib,
35:45 what is your opinion on the
35:47 President's opinion on the
35:49 senior Ahmad Pakistan Dairy's justice?
35:51 Look,
35:53 any Pakistani,
35:55 even if he is a political activist,
35:57 he never goes against the dialogue,
35:59 but,
36:01 we have to look at two things,
36:03 what are the TORs of dialogue,
36:05 and the one who is saying,
36:07 let's leave aside his past,
36:09 the past also points out
36:11 that he believes in what he is saying,
36:13 I will come to the first point,
36:15 look,
36:17 if the government,
36:19 don't distance yourself from the government,
36:21 he was with us for 16 months,
36:23 he is the President of the country,
36:25 and he became the President
36:27 with the support of the Muslim League,
36:29 and with the support of some other people,
36:31 which is not very important to talk about,
36:33 so,
36:35 the President of the country,
36:37 or Asif Ali Zardari Sahib,
36:39 the agreement he has made,
36:41 it is important for him to create an environment,
36:43 to remove the former Prime Minister,
36:45 and the country's biggest leader,
36:47 and put a person in a death cell,
36:49 or a dungeon,
36:51 what is the point of this?
36:53 Secondly, what about the mandate?
36:55 Even today,
36:57 like my younger sister,
36:59 and the political workers,
37:01 we are happy if they fight the elections properly,
37:03 Asifa Bibi,
37:05 because she is the daughter of a martyr,
37:07 but,
37:09 the way our candidate,
37:11 Tariq Insaad,
37:13 was not allowed to fight the elections,
37:15 because of the illness of this party,
37:17 since 1977,
37:19 because of which,
37:21 Bilawal Sahib has said,
37:23 that this is the second part of
37:25 the 9 star method,
37:27 so, I would like to remind Bilawal Sahib,
37:29 that you are doing the same,
37:31 50-60 years later,
37:33 your grandfather, who is respectable for us,
37:35 but will have political differences,
37:37 whatever he did, he would have won anyway,
37:39 he would have won anyway,
37:41 he was popular,
37:43 he was loyal to the Shah,
37:45 and he was un-elected,
37:47 and everyone said,
37:49 if Bhutto Sahib is going to be elected,
37:51 then I will also be elected,
37:53 when everyone was un-elected,
37:55 then the PNA movement was formed,
37:57 against Danli,
37:59 so, this is the last point,
38:01 and I will come to the second point,
38:03 meanwhile,
38:05 I will announce to the people,
38:07 that the price of petroleum,
38:09 meanwhile, Ali Bhai,
38:11 has increased by 1.5 litres,
38:13 and Rs. 8.14 has been increased,
38:15 in the price of high-speed diesel,
38:17 so, the price of petrol,
38:19 will be Rs. 290,
38:21 and the price of petrol,
38:23 will also be Rs. 293.94,
38:25 which is Rs. 294,
38:27 there are 6 runs left,
38:29 in Rs. 300,
38:31 of petrol,
38:33 and Rs. 8.14 has been increased,
38:35 in the price of diesel,
38:37 and petrol has increased,
38:39 so, I said,
38:41 I will announce this news to the people,
38:43 when the people hear this news,
38:45 I know what they will say,
38:47 but I have to announce this news,
38:49 this is the first triple century,
38:51 which we don't want to see,
38:53 may Allah make it 300,
38:55 as a cricket lover,
38:57 any player who scores 300,
38:59 has the courage to do it,
39:01 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:03 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:05 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:07 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:09 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:11 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:13 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:15 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:17 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:19 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:21 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:23 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:25 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:27 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:29 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:31 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:33 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:35 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:37 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:39 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:41 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:43 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:45 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:47 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:49 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:51 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:53 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:55 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:57 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
39:59 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:01 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:03 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:05 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:07 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:09 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:11 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:13 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:15 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:17 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:19 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:21 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:23 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:25 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:27 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:29 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:31 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:33 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:35 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:37 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:39 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:41 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:43 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:45 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:47 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:49 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:51 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:53 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:55 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:57 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
40:59 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:01 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:03 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:05 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:07 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:09 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:11 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:13 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:15 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:17 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:19 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:21 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:23 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:25 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:27 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:29 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:31 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:33 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:35 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:37 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:39 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:41 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:43 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:45 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:47 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:49 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:51 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:53 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:55 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:57 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
41:59 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:01 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:03 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:05 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:07 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:09 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:11 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:13 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:15 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:17 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:19 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:21 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:23 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:25 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:27 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:29 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:31 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:33 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:35 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:37 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:39 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:41 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:43 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:45 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:47 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:49 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:51 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:53 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:55 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:57 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
42:59 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:01 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:03 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:05 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:07 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:09 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:11 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:13 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:15 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:17 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:19 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:21 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:23 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:25 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:27 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:29 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:31 but this 300, may Allah make it back,
43:33 but this 300, may Allah make it back,

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