The Norwegian indie-pop star walks us through the journey to her newfound confidence, teaming up with Sabrina Carpenter on her second record and the pressures of being a queer icon.
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00:26 Like for a very long time, I really didn't, I didn't, I looked down on fun.
00:31 'Cause I was like, that's not smart, that's like, but then it's like, that's exactly what it is.
00:35 It's like, the best part of being alive is just like having fun, laughing.
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00:48 Hi, my name is Alex and I'm here for the latest Enemies in Conversation series.
00:52 We are welcomed today by Girl in Red, otherwise known as Mari. Hey Mari!
00:56 How are you? I'm good, thank you, how are you?
00:58 Feeling good, you know, just in the Sony building, meeting Sony people,
01:03 and doing some label stuff, some music stuff, talking about the music, all the things I want to do, you know?
01:10 There you go. I was wondering, you've joined us today in London,
01:14 is there anything in particular that you always like to do when you come to the city?
01:17 Uh, I like to get good coffee here. It's not always the easiest thing, but, you know,
01:24 there are some great places, and yeah, mostly that's like the most important thing for me, just like, get good coffee.
01:31 Where might one see you frequent some good coffee spots?
01:34 You know, there's this chain called Origin, which is pretty decent, like, it's not the finest of the fine,
01:42 but it's still like, if you want some, like, you just want that decent, flat white with oat milk, you get it there.
01:49 Are you a proper coffee snob as well? Like, do you have all the equipment when you're at home?
01:53 Yes, I am a real coffee snob. I'm very unlikable in that sense, but, you know, that's just how it is sometimes.
01:59 It must be really a nice process, because you get to do everything.
02:03 Yeah, you know, I have like a hand, like, grinder, where I do it, like, manually,
02:07 and I have, like, all the snobby equipment that you can possibly think of,
02:11 but the, I'm actually really bad at making coffee, like, even though I have all the equipment,
02:16 and I have all the facilities to provide with such great coffee, I'm not really,
02:21 I don't have the skills yet to do so.
02:23 Good vibes, bad coffee.
02:25 Yeah, exactly.
02:26 We're already getting off to a really great start, sorry.
02:30 So, let's talk about your new album, which is coming out really soon.
02:34 Yes, April 12th.
02:35 April 12th. It's really exciting. I was wondering, what, tell me about what you were going through
02:41 at the time when you started making this record.
02:43 So, when I started making this album, I was kind of, I was in a new relationship,
02:51 and I was doing so much better than what I had previously.
02:56 I was in a better place mentally, and yeah, I think that's kind of like, what really,
03:02 that was like the catalyst of this album, was just being in a good place,
03:07 and then I started just coming up with some new ideas, like, one does,
03:12 when they start making an album, and yeah, I just collected all the best ideas I had,
03:18 and went into the studio, was touring, went back to the studio, just like,
03:24 try to get this shit done. It took a while though, because it was a long process.
03:28 I wanted to ask, I think across a lot of pop artists, there's this idea that you have to be suffering
03:33 in order to make good music.
03:35 So, now that you're in a good place, did you ever have that fear of not being able to make good music
03:39 because you're not suffering? What did you think?
03:41 Yeah, definitely, there are a lot of fun and happy songs on the album,
03:46 and kind of just like cool vibes all through, and I remember I tried to make those songs
03:52 more sad in a way, because I was trying, I felt like, oh my god,
03:57 this Girl in Red project, it's a lot about mental health, and it's about a lot of these,
04:05 I don't know, sad things.
04:07 But then I think when you talk about mental health, I think a lot of people just,
04:12 having a mental health isn't just having a bad one, you know, when you have a good,
04:16 like, nobody really talks about also having a good mental health.
04:19 When you hear the word mental health, you just think about all the bad stuff,
04:22 but also there is obviously good mental health, which is the healthy one,
04:27 and yeah, I was really struggling actually with accepting that, oh my god, I'm happy,
04:33 what the fuck do I do? It was a whole existential thing.
04:36 And then I realised that I had to stay true to myself, and that being authentic
04:40 and being honest on this new album means writing from something funny,
04:45 and something humorous, and something that's a little bit more light.
04:48 So the way that you use genre on this album, it's very cinematic,
04:52 it's like you use certain genres to evoke certain emotions or images,
04:55 so do you have certain things that you associate with certain genres?
04:59 I don't think so, actually. I think all kind of by accident, and just like,
05:04 I'm kind of just going with feelings and vibes, so whatever is on the song
05:09 is just something that I felt like enhances the feeling, or initial idea or something.
05:14 And I feel like throughout the whole record, it's really hard to pinpoint
05:19 what genre the album is, because it's a little bit of everything,
05:24 and each song is not fully just one thing either.
05:28 You know, there's a song on the album called 'A Night To Remember',
05:31 which is like a piano kind of pop song-ish, but then it also starts leaning into more,
05:38 there's like an electronic side to it almost, so I think I just do whatever feels right.
05:44 Another thing that I noticed with the album is that you've moved into a slicker pop kind of production,
05:50 whereas before you were known for these very indie, lo-fi songs.
05:53 How did it feel to move on from a sound that defined you so much?
05:57 I actually don't think that my previous sound really defined me, I think, personally,
06:03 but I think it gives off an impression to the world of who I am.
06:07 But, you know, my earlier songs are, they're really old now, like songs like
06:11 'I Wanna Be Your Girlfriend', I think that's like seven years old, you know?
06:15 So, obviously a lot of things have happened, and I feel like even with the first record,
06:19 I really took a step up and away from my kind of smaller indie productions,
06:27 and even my indie productions, smaller indie productions, I can really hear them
06:31 reproduced now and sounding bigger, because I feel like all the songs are,
06:37 they have this strong DNA of being produced like a bigger song.
06:41 But I definitely think this album is a little bit more slicker,
06:45 but also I think that's because I've become much more of a perfectionist than I was previously.
06:49 I've developed as a producer, as a songwriter, you know, as a musician,
06:55 so I think it just makes sense that that's the type of sonics that I prefer now.
07:01 But, you know, it might change, the next one might be like,
07:04 'Oh, I'm bored with that sounding so professional and so high-end,
07:08 I just want to do it completely opposite.'
07:12 I don't know, we don't really know what's going to happen, but yeah.
07:14 No, of course. And I was going to say, because this album is meant to be,
07:19 you said that you were a lot more ambitious, there was a lot more artistic growth,
07:23 so what do you define as artistic growth?
07:26 I mean, that's really hard, because like, but for me I think artistic growth
07:30 has just been like thinking a lot bigger, more holistic,
07:34 and really leaning into the ideas. Obviously I've signed a new record deal
07:37 and there's more budget now, so also having a bigger budget also allows
07:42 me to have greater ideas and bigger ideas.
07:45 So I think artistically the growth has just been letting the ideas really lead.
07:51 The ambition, I feel like I've had really big ideas and then the ambitions
07:55 have just kind of grown after the fact.
07:58 Yeah, but I don't really know what artistic growth is, I guess you just like,
08:02 I think visually it's different, sonically it's different,
08:05 so the growth has definitely happened, but I don't know what the growth is specifically.
08:09 I mean, I'm still in it, so it's a bit difficult to zoom out and see the full picture just yet.
08:13 Yeah, I guess I feel like I'm at the tail end of it, sort of,
08:17 and I want to start going into new stuff soon so that I don't stagnate.
08:22 I definitely, probably in a year's time I'm going to be like,
08:25 "Wow, yeah, that was what it was."
08:28 I think I really detect on the last song of this album,
08:32 whose title I literally can't pronounce because it's just like...
08:35 It's Five Stars, but I think I'm going to do a parentheses thing on Spotify
08:38 where it's called The Factory so people can call it The Factory.
08:42 But I do detect with that song a real concern about what are the people saying,
08:48 what the critics are saying, this real pressurising environment.
08:51 So could you talk to me about the place you were in at the time that you wrote that song?
08:54 I wrote that, that was the last song I wrote for the album,
08:57 and I wrote it very quickly, in like two weeks.
09:00 Yeah, that's pretty much, that's the whole concept for the album,
09:03 is pretty much, has been this journey within of like feeling, having no confidence,
09:10 and then kind of finding some of it back, and then making that music,
09:13 but then realising like, what if it's all really fucking bad?
09:16 And I think a lot of my, like my whole career has been led by a lot of artistic doubt,
09:21 and I think my everyday is led and kind of controlled by artistic doubt.
09:25 So it can be, I can be very doubtful with everything,
09:29 and I think that's like, that last song is kind of wanting something to be received well,
09:34 but also believing in yourself a little bit still, and kind of staying delusional,
09:38 and being like, I just gotta know this is really good,
09:42 like that's the whole kind of concept of the album, with that self-esteem,
09:46 but also the album is called I'm Doing It Again Baby,
09:49 which is me being like, making a better album than the first one,
09:52 like it's, but then towards the very, very end of it, I'm like, can I do it again?
09:56 Kind of ask either, did I do it, or can I get another shot at it,
10:01 because it also feels like the sophomore album is like, if that doesn't go well,
10:04 usually I feel like the tendency is that people's careers kind of drift apart,
10:11 and they kind of, they're just like, I don't know, dissolve a little bit,
10:14 and I just don't want that.
10:15 I was gonna say, because your first album was so like, well-received by critics,
10:20 it got a lot of attention, so did that impact how you wrote the second album?
10:24 I definitely think, you know, getting good critical acclaim impacted me,
10:31 as in like, I trusted myself a little bit more, but also that disappears very quickly,
10:37 like then the doubt starts taking over again,
10:40 so I don't really think that it impacted this album,
10:43 like that I wanted to make something more, kind of, like wanted to make music
10:49 that I think people would like, because I feel like a lot of the songs are songs
10:53 I'm really worried people won't like, because they are a little bit weird,
10:57 or maybe like, there's a song called Phantom Pain, where I do this whole like,
11:01 Disney moment, where I'm like, completely manic, and like, I'm like,
11:05 what if people just think that's fucking weird, and they don't really get the vibe,
11:09 so I don't know, I don't, I definitely feel like getting the critical,
11:14 like good reviews and stuff makes me feel really good, it's like a dopamine hit,
11:18 but also it's, I don't think it affected it long term, because I was still back
11:23 to feeling like shit when I was making the new one.
11:26 I really hear that, but it sounds like with the making of this album,
11:30 you've sort of seemed to found a way to get to a point where you feel a bit more confident,
11:34 so when you did start to feel artistic doubt, who did you turn to,
11:37 or what did you read, or what did you think in order to gain confidence?
11:41 I, you know, I definitely get a lot of confidence from my mom,
11:44 and my collaborator Mattias Telles, who I co-wrote and produced the album with,
11:49 so I definitely did find my confidence, like that's kind of been the whole journey,
11:54 has been to like how, like, I got that high feeling of like, I'm doing it again, baby,
12:00 and then really, throughout the whole process, I felt like I wasn't doing it,
12:04 but then like, it was kind of like overcoming that, like, my writer's block,
12:09 like, I literally have been sitting hours and hours in the studio,
12:12 not writing a single fucking word, definitely it's been that journey of finding that self-esteem again,
12:18 you know, on songs like "Doing It Again Baby", which is like this funny, upbeat song about feeling fucking cool,
12:24 like, that was like such a hard song to write, because I wasn't feeling so cool,
12:29 so I had to like really tune into that, but yeah, mostly I've been turning to my mom,
12:35 and my sister, my girlfriend, Mattias, who I produced it with,
12:38 yeah, just like my best friends, people around me, my creative director Isaac Jensen,
12:42 who also shot the album cover with me, and he's been such an important player in this whole thing.
12:48 And then I also want to go on that song as well, because during that song,
12:52 there is this whole country kind of breakdown that you do, and it's so, it's just really fun,
12:58 so what brought you to use country as that sort of frame?
13:02 Just because it's fun, like, I feel like on this album, I just want to have fun,
13:08 and I just want to do things because they're fun, and not because it's like,
13:11 and also like sonically, I was like, this is fucking cool, it's fucking sick,
13:14 like, I'm just going with my intuition, mostly, like this whole, like I can't read scores or notes,
13:21 or like, I don't know anything musically, other than what I feel,
13:25 and yeah, my intuition was just like, this is fucking sick,
13:29 it's so funny with the fucking banjo coming in, and then the topline being all,
13:34 "I'm loving this new self-esteem", like, it's just like, ballsy, big dick energy, I just fuck with it.
13:40 And also Beyonce just made a country song, so you know, it's like, it's contemporary.
13:46 But it's funny that you do the cowboy, because I really did think, listening to the song,
13:49 it sounds like a cowboy just riding off into the wind, being his confident cowboy self.
13:53 Right? I mean, that's what it is, it's like, yeah, it's just about fun,
13:57 and like, even that last chorus of that song, it's just like, firework,
14:02 we just sampled a bunch of fireworks to just like, be the big moment,
14:08 and that's so cheesy and just so fun, it's like, I think having fun is like,
14:12 one of the most intelligent things you can do.
14:14 Like, for a very long time, I really didn't, I looked down on fun,
14:18 because I was like, that's not smart, that's like, but then it's like, that's exactly what it is,
14:22 it's like, the best part of being alive is just like, having fun, laughing.
14:26 Why didn't you think it was smart or good to have fun?
14:29 I was young and stupid, I was like, thought I was onto something, but I was so off.
14:35 I know that you took a bit of a break to write this album,
14:39 so what is the importance of living life and just kind of enjoying life for you as a musician?
14:45 I definitely feel like you can kind of hear on the album that I've lived life a little bit more,
14:49 but I think that's number one, like, obviously you've got to collect experiences
14:53 to be able to write something that's authentic.
14:56 It's so, being alive is so exciting, there are so many fun things happening,
15:00 as well as horrible things, unfortunately, but I don't know, I think I was just,
15:04 I'm so overwhelmed and excited by life, so I think I've just like, been really enjoying
15:09 friendships and fun Saturday nights and just like, things that are just like, fun.
15:15 And that sounds really like, trivial maybe, but I used to not allow myself to have fun,
15:22 I used to be like, punishing myself if I wasn't making music a Saturday night,
15:25 and like, I used to say no to all my friends, and I was pushing everyone away
15:29 because I was like, I don't deserve this, or like, I need to work harder,
15:33 but now I'm like, fuck no, I need to work hard, but I also need to have fun.
15:38 Was there something that triggered this for you to start having a bit more fun
15:41 and to let loose a little bit?
15:43 I think, you know, when I moved from my hometown in 2018 to Oslo, it was a bigger city,
15:50 I was very lonely for a very long time, so I think the catalyst for a lot of it
15:55 was just like, actually allowing myself to get to know people, and be like,
15:59 "Oh, I just met this person for like, a photo shoot," and instead of just like,
16:04 being like, "Okay, bye, never see you again," I was like, "We actually had great chemistry,
16:08 we get along so well, let's be friends," started hanging out, I started,
16:11 basically it's just like, I started saying yes to my life, I started saying yes to things.
16:16 I think that was the whole kind of change here, and it all happened right after
16:21 the first album came out. You know, I'm not very famous, but I have, to some level,
16:27 something because someone can recognize me at a store in a town I've never been,
16:31 that has happened, so to some level I have a little bit of fame.
16:35 I think that can very quickly go to your head, and I think also, maybe I haven't,
16:42 for a while I was a little bit high on myself, I think, I was like, "Oh, these people are like,
16:48 they're not really interested in being my friend," so I also realized that's fucking stupid.
16:53 I'll realize if the vibe is off, and then I'll just won't hang out with them,
16:58 but preemptively just going into every single, meeting every single person thinking that
17:03 they think you're cool is also really awkward, and so I just stopped doing that in 2021,
17:10 and yeah, I just became a more open person, and I think I just became more humble and chill and low-key.
17:16 I was also wondering, how does living in Norway impact your understanding of fame?
17:20 That's interesting, because Norway, it's very much like people don't really come up to you,
17:25 they just stare at you, and so I can definitely tell when someone recognizes me,
17:30 plus Norway is a very small country, so it's not very hard to kind of be all over the news there,
17:36 but yeah, I think, I don't know, in a way, it's a very low-key place to be famous.
17:43 I think, let's say if this album did really well, fingers crossed,
17:49 and it brought me to another level of fame, I still think I wouldn't really notice the difference in Norway,
17:55 so I think it's a pretty sheltered, kind of hidden gem.
17:59 Well then, tell me all about what you can do on a Saturday night in Oslo,
18:03 because I've never been before, so you've got to tell me, you're my tour guide now.
18:07 Well, me and my friends, we're kind of like roasting Oslo recently,
18:11 because the nightlife has really deteriorated, but what we're doing really is just,
18:17 we're seeking places that are just fucking weird, that's what we're doing.
18:22 I find it very, I guess I'm a sort of person, I'm kind of in the art world, kind of in the music world,
18:30 and when art and music and culture people kind of just seek those type of bars,
18:36 it becomes very much, it's just a boring environment where you just meet the same people all the time.
18:41 So I feel like it's very, the new trend right now is just to go weird places that are just random and fun,
18:49 and a lot more genuine, so that's kind of, I feel like a Saturday night in Oslo is just like,
18:54 go somewhere, play darts, throw darts, drink lots of beer, go somewhere else, end up at my place,
19:02 smoke a lot of weed inside my apartment, and then, yeah, I don't know, just drink a lot of alcohol.
19:10 I have a big selection of wine, as well as my coffee snobbery, I also am a wine snob,
19:16 and I just keep pouring everyone's glasses. I'm just like this great Gatsby dude.
19:21 Yeah, honestly, I don't know. I don't know what the greatest night of Oslo is, but just like being with friends,
19:26 honestly, any Saturday night is best when you're with your friends.
19:29 That's really beautiful. I also want to, I'm really glad that you brought up your apartment,
19:35 because I noticed that you had a TikTok showing us around the apartment.
19:38 In that TikTok, I noticed you had a painting.
19:41 Two paintings.
19:42 Two paintings by someone with the first name Taylor, last name Swift?
19:46 Correct.
19:47 Correct. How did that happen? Tell us all about it.
19:49 That was right after my first album came out, and she reposted my album and stuff,
19:55 and I was like, "Oh my God, what the hell? That's insane."
19:58 I sent her my album as a thank you, and then she emailed me, being like,
20:03 "Oh my God, you sent me your album. I was just about to order it. That's so kind of you."
20:08 And then she was like, "I want to send you something."
20:10 And then she sent me some paintings and her vinyls, which I already had,
20:14 but still, she's just a gem, and she's a very beautiful person.
20:21 So she made those paintings, and I got them framed, and I got them hung up,
20:25 because her little flowers and my lyrics on there.
20:28 So it's a very cute little thing.
20:31 Did she write the lyrics on there as well?
20:33 Yeah, she wrote the lyrics on there too.
20:34 So it says, "Put me in a field of daisies," and then it's a little daisy and stuff,
20:39 and it says, "Words by Marie, Daisy by Taylor," or something.
20:45 That must feel like such an honor, because I know you're a massive Taylor Swift fan as well, right?
20:49 Yeah, I'm a really big fan. I think she's really fucking cool,
20:53 and she's a great songwriter, great musician. She's great with melodies.
20:58 I feel like there's science that goes into her songs, because she's like a scientist, almost, with songs.
21:03 And same with Jack Antonoff, and I really like their working relationship,
21:07 and Aaron Dessner. All of them are kind of like...
21:10 It's really cool how they're just cooking up music.
21:14 I always call making songs "solving puzzles."
21:17 You are like a scientist. You're researching what works and what doesn't,
21:22 and what's cool and what's not cool, and stuff.
21:25 So she's like a scientist.
21:27 So I know that you've called yourself a bit more of a perfectionist for this album.
21:31 Yeah.
21:32 Talk me through... How much editing are you doing in order to make sure a song is perfect for this album?
21:37 I think I've spent 18 months on the whole album.
21:41 It's been a lot. First of all, just making the songs and making sure they sound perfect.
21:46 And then it's mixing, which took a month and a half.
21:49 And then it's mastering and making sure... And that took even another month.
21:52 So it's just so many months of perfecting and perfectionism.
21:58 But I think when you hear something and it sounds like it could have been on the radio,
22:03 and it sounds like it's radio-ready,
22:05 or if you put it in a playlist of other songs that have made it to Spotify,
22:09 and you're like, "This blends in."
22:11 Not being bland, but it doesn't stand out as an unfinished song.
22:16 I think that's when you know that you've done everything you could.
22:19 No, and this album definitely sounds like, as I say, real slick pop production.
22:23 It sounds proper and genuine, and really professional. Well done, honestly.
22:26 Thank you. Thank you so much.
22:28 I've poured every little tiny bit of energy I've had into it, of all the details and everything.
22:33 And also Matthias and I, we work so well together.
22:36 One person, his birthday is February 8th, mine is 16th.
22:40 Eight plus eight is 16. He was born 10 years before me.
22:44 So in 1989, and I don't know, we're just like...
22:51 We call ourselves twin bodies because we are so in sync.
22:54 We're like the same person, but with 10 years difference.
22:57 And he's a man, but still.
22:59 I was wondering, have you worked with many other producers before,
23:02 and how do they compare to Matthias?
23:05 The only other one I've really worked with is...
23:09 In a studio, it was with Aaron Dessner when I did "My October Passed Me By,"
23:13 which was the sequel to "We Felt Love in October."
23:16 But yeah, I think there's something with Matthias that's so...
23:21 It feels like he is almost an instrument to me, and I think for him also.
23:27 It's like we kind of use each other to push each other, but also we're so in tune.
23:33 So whenever I say something that I want to do this, he's like, "Yeah."
23:37 And it's just like we're each other's limbs, almost.
23:41 So it doesn't even feel like we're two people in there sometimes.
23:46 So you've got a special guest on this album,
23:48 and I didn't notice that you were going to have a special guest because it wasn't in the title,
23:51 but Sabrina Carpenter just comes into the song out of the blue.
23:55 Was it intentional just to slip her in there as a little secret?
23:58 I mean, when it's on Spotify and everything, it's going to say featuring Sabrina Carpenter,
24:03 so it'll be official.
24:05 But yeah, it's my first ever feature.
24:08 I think it's really sick that she was able to do it.
24:11 And she is such a pro, and she's so cool and amazing.
24:15 So I just feel so lucky that she's my first feature.
24:18 I was going to say, the first feature is a really big honor.
24:21 So why did you choose Sabrina, and why did you choose her specifically for the song that she's on?
24:25 When I was making that song, I did that last part myself, and it just wasn't right.
24:31 But I already did an intro.
24:33 I did something like, "Oh, you know, it'd be really fucking cool on this."
24:36 And then I did that whole intro where I kind of introduced myself in a way.
24:41 But I really felt like creatively and sonically I needed another voice here.
24:48 And I just felt like it was the perfect moment of introducing a completely new kind of color to the song.
24:54 And I really admire Sabrina's voice.
24:56 I really admire her whole new artistry.
24:59 I just feel like she's leveling up her stuff too, and I think she's really finding her voice.
25:04 So yeah, I just felt like it's just cool.
25:10 I don't think it's unexpected, because we are kind of operating in maybe two different realms.
25:16 I might be a little bit more indie, and she's a little bit more pop, and kind of American sweetheart maybe.
25:22 But I also think her voice on a production like that is so fucking sick,
25:26 and I really hope that she's going to do something a little bit more like that maybe.
25:29 It was just mostly because it's like ballsy, fun, cool, and also just a little surprise.
25:35 Because I don't think anyone really expected something like that.
25:39 You mentioned your girlfriend though, and I wanted to ask how did you meet her?
25:43 Because she's obviously made such a huge impact to your life.
25:46 I met her at a bar in Oslo Saturday night, you know.
25:49 It actually was a Friday I think.
25:51 But yeah, we met during the pandemic at around 10pm on a Friday night, 11th of June 2021.
26:03 I remember it very specifically because I had gotten a text from my friend,
26:06 and she was like, "You should come here and meet this..."
26:09 And then she sent a picture of her, and I was like, "Okay, I'll come."
26:13 And then the beer and the alcohol sale had just closed, so we took the night a different direction.
26:20 We started going to other people's places and really hit it off.
26:23 That's like phantom pain, and A Night to Remember is all about her and those nights.
26:30 So she has an impact on the record too.
26:32 Okay, that was a lot of information.
26:34 Yeah, it's very specific. I remember the night, I remember everything.
26:39 A Night to Remember is all about that night, which was very much like a long, beautiful summer night
26:45 in Oslo where the sun never went down, because we have almost 24 hours of sunlight in Norway during summer.
26:51 It's so special. Yeah, so that's when I met her, and we're still kicking it.
26:57 Beautiful.
26:58 Of course.
26:59 But I was wondering, because you're known for being really honest and upfront,
27:02 both in your music and just as a person, how did it feel documenting your new love for your girlfriend on this new album?
27:10 I mean, I think it might feel a little bit weird for her, but I'm not going to speak on her behalf.
27:15 But for me, it's very natural.
27:20 The initial feeling, kind of idea, might be from something that has its roots in real life,
27:27 but then it's also a story and it's a song, and I'm exaggerating, I'm being dramatic.
27:31 So in a way, things have their origin from the real world, but then it's also fiction because it's a song.
27:42 So I don't know. For me, it hasn't really been that weird.
27:46 It's been very just like, of course, this is what I do.
27:49 And from the outside, it always seems like your honesty is just so effortless and easy.
27:54 But is there anything that you do struggle to be honest about in general?
27:58 In my relationship, I think definitely I'm really bad with confrontations.
28:05 So I definitely have a lot of emotional growth that needs to be growing a little bit more.
28:11 But I'm taking the right steps for all of that.
28:16 And I think the most important thing is just like you want to change and you want to grow.
28:20 I don't know. I think I'm a very honest person.
28:22 And like I said, I think other people are honest. I like to think that I'm honest.
28:28 That's kind of the way I go about things.
28:31 So I don't think I struggle with honesty that much, even though I don't like confrontation.
28:37 That's like my thing. I'm really bad at saying that hurt my feelings.
28:43 So I need to work on my communication skills. That's for sure.
28:47 That's a very odd pairing to have because you would think if you're honest,
28:50 you're like, well, I would think if you're honest, you kind of would have no problem with conflict.
28:53 I guess it kind of makes sense, doesn't it?
28:55 Well, I think, you know, I think you can be honest and you can also struggle with things.
28:59 I think you can be two things at once.
29:01 And so I think that I can be honest with strangers about my life.
29:06 But when it's when it comes to being with that one person, I'm still honest with my girlfriend.
29:12 But it doesn't mean it's we don't, you know, like difficult conversations.
29:16 No, but we're still honest, but still, it's still, you know, the feeling I have is that it's hard, but I'm still doing it, you know.
29:22 So the one thing I did want to ask you is on your first album, you were heralded as this queer icon.
29:28 Looking back on it now, how did it feel to be put on such a high pedestal at such a young age?
29:32 I think at the time I was like, oh, this is a lot.
29:35 But now I'm like, it's really it's really such an honor to be able to have impacted young people's lives or old people's lives.
29:43 Honestly, I don't know the specific age, but I honestly think it's such an honor.
29:48 But obviously, this also can freak me out a little bit.
29:50 Like, you know, when you asked me about Central City, I'm like, I don't know what's right.
29:54 You know, maybe it offended somebody.
29:56 Didn't offend me.
29:57 There was also like no right or wrong.
29:59 But so it can be a little bit intimidating because I mean well with everything I do.
30:03 But also people are so picky on whatever might hurt their feelings and stuff.
30:09 So I'm like I'm like a little bit nervous also.
30:12 But, you know, I like I said, I choose to think that I'm an OK person.
30:17 So now thinking of it, I just think it's an honor to be able to impact people's lives through music and live performances and kind of just like.
30:29 I don't know, it's really just it's just it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to be able to do the thing I love the most.
30:36 And if people look up to me that way, then that's great.
30:40 And also take everything you see in the world with a pinch of salt.
30:43 That's my little tip from your icon in red here.
30:46 Your icon in red.
30:48 Well, thank you very much, Mari.
30:49 I really appreciate you coming in to see us today.
30:51 I've had a really good conversation.
30:52 So thank you.
30:53 Thank you so much.
30:54 I hope everyone in the cameras and behind the cameras and you, everyone had a great time.
30:58 I did for sure.
30:59 So like it's probably one of the better interviews I've done for this whole album because I was seated very eloquently.
31:04 So I feel like my words came out a lot better.
31:06 You do look very professional.
31:07 You do look very, you know.
31:09 That's great.
31:10 That's my style of recently.
31:11 It's professionalism.
31:12 Do you want to make an important statement just to.
31:15 Thank you.
31:19 That's my statement.
31:20 Thank you.
31:21 It's all in the eyes.
31:22 It's really nice to meet you.
31:24 [Music]
31:28 [BLANK_AUDIO]