Bob Ryan and Gary Tanguay tackle all of the biggest stories across the game of basketball including Rajon Rondo calling it a career, the popularity of the NCAA WOmen's tournament and what it could mean for the future of the WNBA, and the passing of Boston sports legend Larry Lucchino. All that, and much more!
EPISODE TIMELINE:
00:44 - Rajon Rondo Retirement
10:27 - PrizePicks
11:25 - Iowa v LSU, Clark v Reese
19:47 - Larry Lucchino
This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy! Football season may be over, but the action on the floor is heating up. Whether it’s Tournament Season or the fight for playoff homecourt, there’s no shortage of high stakes basketball moments this time of year. Quick withdrawals, easy gameplay and an enormous selection of players and stat types are what make PrizePicks the #1 daily fantasy sports app!
When you’re hiring for your small business, you want to find quality professionals that are right for the role. That’s why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs has the tools to help find the right professionals for your team, faster and for free. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/SCRIBE. Terms and conditions apply.
EPISODE TIMELINE:
00:44 - Rajon Rondo Retirement
10:27 - PrizePicks
11:25 - Iowa v LSU, Clark v Reese
19:47 - Larry Lucchino
This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy! Football season may be over, but the action on the floor is heating up. Whether it’s Tournament Season or the fight for playoff homecourt, there’s no shortage of high stakes basketball moments this time of year. Quick withdrawals, easy gameplay and an enormous selection of players and stat types are what make PrizePicks the #1 daily fantasy sports app!
When you’re hiring for your small business, you want to find quality professionals that are right for the role. That’s why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs has the tools to help find the right professionals for your team, faster and for free. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/SCRIBE. Terms and conditions apply.
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SportsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC]
00:10 Hey, it's that time again.
00:24 It's time for Bob Ryan, Jeff Goodman,
00:26 tagging along for the ride, Zoom with Pod.
00:28 Jeff, as we know, is deep into the NCAA season.
00:32 We will see him someday soon.
00:34 Prize picks, our exclusive Daily Fantasy partner
00:38 of CLNers Media.
00:40 Pick more, pick less.
00:41 It's that easy with prize picks.
00:43 Okay, Bob, Rajon Rondo.
00:46 Boy, what a career, what a character,
00:49 so much to talk about.
00:51 After two years of not playing,
00:53 he has finally called it quits.
00:55 Where do you want to begin on Rajon Rondo?
00:59 Start with Doc's insistence when he was here
01:05 that "Rondo's the smartest player I've ever coached."
01:09 Right.
01:10 We all rolled our eyes, and I still kind of do.
01:14 He was an interesting, just an interesting observation
01:16 from Doc, all right?
01:18 Rondo was a very specifically interesting special player,
01:23 one of the two greatest 6'1" rebounders in NBA history,
01:27 the other being Fat Lever.
01:29 And this enabled him to appear among the all-time leaders
01:33 in triple doubles.
01:35 He is number 16 on the all-time list,
01:37 which is, I'm talking about, which is current,
01:40 including active players such as Jokic and Donchik.
01:49 He was electrifying in his peak year.
01:52 He was such a special ingredient with those great teams
01:56 with the big three.
01:58 I remember right from the start, Gary,
02:00 his first year in '06-'07,
02:02 he was playing behind Sebastian Telfair.
02:05 And every time he'd get in, the game would be lit up.
02:08 It was different.
02:10 And I'm sitting there thinking, "I want to see more of this kid."
02:14 And it only took one year.
02:15 The next year, he is the quarterback
02:17 of a championship team.
02:19 And a very important component on those teams.
02:23 And the little brother, though,
02:25 I will always forever think of him as a kid,
02:27 and he's 38 years old now.
02:29 And by the way, he's been retired for two years.
02:31 He's only officially announced his retirement,
02:33 but hasn't played in the league in two years.
02:36 But now he's officially done.
02:39 Did you know that after leaving the Celtics,
02:43 he played for no fewer than eight teams,
02:45 including the Lakers, twice?
02:47 No, I knew he had bounced around,
02:49 but I did not know it was that peripatetic, as we say.
02:54 Anyway, he was a special player.
02:57 He wasn't a great outside shooter.
02:59 He could make one every once in a while,
03:01 he'd get a little streak.
03:03 But what an extraordinary ability to go to the basket.
03:06 And of course, he is a three-time assist leader in the league.
03:10 He led the league in assists three times,
03:12 led the league in steals once.
03:16 He wore All-Star games.
03:19 He's not a Hall of Famer,
03:21 but in the Celtic lore, he occupies a special place.
03:26 There was nobody quite like him, you know, stylistically,
03:30 which is true of a lot of guys.
03:32 But you don't -- I don't know how many in the league you compare him to now.
03:37 And the only other guy you could have compared him to at the time was Fat Lever,
03:40 but Fat Lever didn't have the flair that Rondo had.
03:47 You look at some of the numbers he put up, you know, time goes on, you forget.
03:50 Some of the playoff game numbers he put up with not just 13, 10, 11 kind of triple doubles.
03:57 We're talking 28, 17, you know, 13 kind of stuff.
04:01 And it was -- but he was headstrong.
04:06 And you know what happened in Dallas.
04:08 He goes to Dallas and he butts heads with Rick Carlisle, who's the coach,
04:14 and he gets benched, and I'm going to get the details just so I don't misspeak here.
04:19 In the playoffs, he was benched after game two of the first round.
04:24 He didn't play as they lost in five at the rest of the series
04:28 and reportedly was not voted a playoff share by his teammates.
04:33 Now, that's unconfirmed, but it's out there, reportedly, I say.
04:38 And that didn't end well at all.
04:40 And from then on, he went from Dallas to Sacramento, Chicago, New Orleans,
04:46 the Lakers, Atlanta, Clippers, Cleveland, and then sticked another time back in with the Lakers.
04:52 But the summation is he made a valuable contribution to a championship team,
04:59 and we know that team could have won three in a row, and he was very much a part of that.
05:03 It's a shame, you know, that it didn't end the way it should have here.
05:09 But based on the way he bounced around after that, apparently, everybody got tired of him quickly.
05:16 And that was his own fault.
05:19 He was a basketball genius.
05:23 Well, Doc, would certainly agree with you.
05:26 When it comes to genius, there's complications with that.
05:32 Now, I don't know his MENSA score.
05:34 I don't know if I can officially say he was a genius.
05:38 But with the genius ability on the floor, I believe comes complications.
05:45 I fell in love with Rondo the moment I saw him play.
05:50 And we had him in the studio, and we talked to him.
05:54 I remember up at Comcast Sports that we all started to talk,
05:57 because we started to see the same thing you did, and we said, "This guy's the guy."
06:01 We started to see it, you know, because we were coming to Celtics.
06:03 We were there all the time.
06:05 Donnie Marshall would see him in practice.
06:07 We said, "This is the guy."
06:09 And he was very conversational, very easy to deal with.
06:15 But as time went on, that changed.
06:19 And I'll tell you a story.
06:22 It was during the--I can't remember if it was the '08 championship or the 2010--
06:27 No, it was the '08 championship.
06:30 We were at the Beverly--at the Beverly--Team Hotel, whichever one, the Wilshire in Los Angeles.
06:40 I was with my wife, and what a day.
06:43 Sidney Porteg walks by, and, you know, me being a movie buff,
06:46 and I'm sure you feel the same way.
06:47 I'm like, "Oh, my God, that's Sidney Porteg.
06:49 You know, everybody's looking for the Celtics."
06:51 And I'm like, "My God, that's Sidney Porteg."
06:54 And I said hello to him, Mr. Porteg, and then Perk came walking by.
06:58 I was like, "Hey, Perk, what's up?"
07:00 And they had lost that game.
07:01 Maybe that was game three.
07:04 And I said, "What have you been doing?"
07:05 He says, "Rondo and I were up watching the game till 4 a.m."
07:10 Perk was really Rondo's rock.
07:15 When Perk left, my observation, something was missing for Rajan.
07:23 And as we came to learn, when Perk left, a lot was missing emotionally with that team.
07:30 Perk was very important to that locker room.
07:33 He was very important to Rajan Rondo.
07:35 He was able to keep Rondo in line, if you will.
07:41 And then when Garnett left and Pierce left, that's when Rondo kind of lost his way.
07:47 And there was no anchor for Rajan.
07:51 I always felt very sympathetic towards him because, I mean, I observed him a lot.
07:56 I mean, I was there.
07:57 I watched the guy.
07:59 And these are only my observations.
08:03 And I just felt like he was searching for something.
08:05 He was looking for something.
08:07 I felt bad for him.
08:08 Some people became irritated with him.
08:11 But I saw a kid that needed -- he just needed something.
08:16 And he couldn't find it after that team left, especially after Perk left.
08:22 And he was never able to find it again.
08:24 And I really felt bad about that because that led to the behavior we're talking about.
08:29 And this is the genius part of him.
08:32 I believe that Rajan Rondo was probably the worst shooter that could control a floor in the history of the league.
08:38 >> That's very good.
08:40 >> He really could, Bob.
08:41 I mean, it was amazing.
08:43 He could control the other nine guys while having a shot.
08:48 And I felt he could have been the worst shooter to ever make the Hall of Fame if he had continued on the path.
08:54 >> Yeah.
08:57 >> I loved watching him.
08:58 Boy, when he was on, he was something.
09:00 When he was off, and I was there with him when he was off, you know, he had some -- off the record, I can't say, but, you know, he had some moments behind the scenes.
09:08 >> Yeah.
09:09 >> The coaching staff after, and he lost his way.
09:12 And it's just a damn shame.
09:14 I think it's one of the all-time shames of the league because as you just eloquently said so well, he was a master to watch.
09:23 He really was.
09:25 Without a jump shot!
09:28 >> You know, observations I'm curious to get, and that's Brian Scalabrini.
09:33 He was a teammate on that.
09:34 >> Right.
09:35 >> I'm sure he'll be heard from.
09:37 Sadly, you know, he's run up with legal troubles the last couple years.
09:40 I won't go into the details.
09:41 >> Right, right.
09:42 >> Anybody wants to Google it, you can Google it.
09:45 >> Right.
09:46 >> He's had some troubles.
09:47 >> I don't want to dump on him at all in that regard, but there's facts, you know.
09:52 But it's a special career.
09:54 I mean, it is a unique career.
09:57 >> He's an enigma.
09:58 >> His style of play, but boy, at his peak, it was a joy to watch.
10:04 >> Yeah, he really was.
10:05 I mean, he was something else.
10:06 With that group --
10:08 >> And by the way, he is the all-time Celtic playoff assist leader, surpassing Bob Cousy.
10:15 >> Yeah, right, yeah.
10:17 So he should always be remembered, you know, when the discussions of prominent Celtics come up.
10:24 We will make sure we include Rajon Arando.
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11:23 [MUSIC]
11:26 >> Moving on to the big story of the week.
11:30 It's the NCAA as Kaitlyn Clark and Iowa advances to take on UConn.
11:36 And wouldn't it be just like Gina Oriema to spoil the party and come out of nowhere?
11:41 But let's first talk about the LSU-Iowa matchup and her 41 points in that game.
11:46 >> Well, she started off immediately making a three and getting your attention.
11:50 It was a masterpiece game.
11:52 She's at 41 points, 12 assists.
11:55 We're used to those pull-ups.
11:57 She pulls up, really, when she crosses midcourt, you better get your hands up.
12:02 You better get it.
12:03 I mean, it's Steph Curry.
12:04 It's the female Steph Curry.
12:06 Her range is Steph, and it's legitimately Steph Curry range.
12:09 We're not talking about some scaled-down version of basketball.
12:12 Fact of the matter is it's 94 by 50.
12:14 We'll get into that controversy about the three-point lane and the women's and all that nonsense in a minute.
12:19 But she pulls up what they call the logo shot now.
12:24 And apparently now in Iowa at Carver-Hawkeye Arena, they've got a marker now where she made the basket that broke the record, which was from about 30 feet.
12:33 So anyway, it was a virtuoso performance when most needed in an important game.
12:39 But they did have the help that Yogi Zorui helped she needed.
12:42 Kate Martin and others stepped up and had good games as we learned this team.
12:49 I've seen this team play, though, how many times this year?
12:52 You know, it's just amazing.
12:54 I asked yesterday, by the way, Garrett, I have had more casual conversations about women's basketball in the last week just moving around town than I've had in the last 50 years combined.
13:06 I mean, you go into a store, hey, did you see the game?
13:11 You go into the deli counter, hey, did you see the game?
13:13 And that game was the game, was the Iowa.
13:15 It turns out it was the most watched women's game ever, 12 million people.
13:19 And it was a high level game.
13:24 And now one thing I must give full credit, I mean, so there was an asterisk attached, Angel Reese got hurt.
13:31 She guts it out and came back.
13:33 But she was two for 12 after she came back.
13:36 And she still got her share of rebounds, what she had 19 rebounds.
13:40 She's very good, strong inside presence.
13:43 You don't know it at full strength, you know how she would have played.
13:46 That's a shame, I feel bad about it.
13:49 I hate that, what I call the loose ends.
13:51 It's kind of a loose end in that game, you know, what would have happened if Angel had stayed in.
13:55 Anyway, it was a high level game and it was an excellent basketball game.
14:01 And Caitlin, the thing, the caravan, the circus, whatever you want to call it, the show moves on.
14:07 Now it moves on to Cleveland.
14:09 And the semifinal game, which is what we would like to, we wish were the championship game, frankly, you know, is going to be UConn.
14:17 And it's a different UConn team.
14:19 Gino has never taken a team like this going back to 1995 when he had his first one championship.
14:25 So battered.
14:26 And he's only suiting up eight people, apparently.
14:30 And the starters get heavy minutes.
14:34 And it's all about Paige Becker's now.
14:37 She's back.
14:38 After missing a whole season.
14:40 And the idea that these two glamorous players are going to be battling one-on-one, and it will be a subplot, and they will end up parting each other at times, I'm certain.
14:53 And it's going to be great to watch.
14:55 But Paige Becker's is reminding everybody, hey, hey, I was the best player two years ago.
15:00 And of course, you know, and this is so good for women's basketball.
15:05 It just is.
15:06 And it's not just those two, too.
15:08 You know, we got Juju Watkins at SC, and we've got Hannah Hidalgo at Notre Dame.
15:15 We've got up and comers all over the place.
15:17 So this sport is really booming.
15:20 >> Does it continue with Kaitlin leaving?
15:22 >> Well, I hope so.
15:23 I think it's going to be interesting.
15:26 But the attention is focused.
15:28 And, yeah, I think there's going to be some residual.
15:31 But she's special.
15:32 Of course she's special.
15:34 But there's no reason why we can't have high-level players.
15:37 >> I think it will continue because of -- and we've discussed this with Kaitlin -- because of the ability to make money in the marketing with sports.
15:46 You know, where you have, you know, commercials, films, movies, there's other ways for players in the women's game to be put out to the public.
15:58 And I think that that's huge.
16:00 You know?
16:01 And I think that they'll benefit from it greatly.
16:04 And there's something, Bob, you know, there's something about being a fan about -- it's kind of lost a little bit.
16:11 It's very hard.
16:15 You know, I guess you could go back to like -- well, it's not really David Stern.
16:19 It's to the point now in sports where you become a fan of the individual as opposed to the team because of player movement, certainly because of the men's game, the way players have moved in the portal and so forth.
16:33 So you become a fan.
16:35 You know, in the college game, you'll look at Kaitlin Clark.
16:38 It's four years at Iowa.
16:40 You know?
16:41 You've had a chance.
16:42 You have a bond.
16:43 I'm a Hawkeye fan.
16:45 That's it.
16:46 I'm with this team.
16:48 I'm a Hawkeye fan.
16:49 And in college basketball, you just don't have that for men.
16:53 And, you know, you have it with the NFL because player movement isn't as -- you know, like Patrick Mahomes isn't going anywhere.
17:02 I just think it's -- one of the benefits of following NCAA women's basketball is if you fall in love with -- if you like a player, they're going to be there a while.
17:11 There are transfers, but it's not at the level of the men's, and you're absolutely right.
17:15 And in this case, this is the ultimate example of it.
17:17 And in both cases, both Kaitlin Clark and Paige Becker's.
17:23 No, it's great.
17:24 So this is a big moment in women's -- not just women's college basketball in history, but women's sports history in general.
17:34 The tension is being focused.
17:36 And it's just amusing to think these conversations that I just alluded to a few minutes ago were not possible even two years ago, let alone 10 or 20 or 30.
17:46 You know, just weren't.
17:48 And so -- and I've had fun next to -- with people, sparring with people about this and pointing out that though these players are great and we love them, that I still have not seen a better pure point guard in the women's game than Dawn Stamford.
18:05 And I know I have not seen a better host player than Lisa Leslie.
18:10 And as good as Angel Reese is, she would benefit by taking some lessons from Lisa Leslie.
18:15 She's a great rebounder, but she's not the scorer that Lisa Leslie was.
18:19 And I just want people to remember these players that have existed.
18:22 And everybody's saying Cheryl Miller.
18:24 Yes, of course Cheryl Miller.
18:26 Diana Taurasi, who's still with us, you know, and all that.
18:29 Sue Bird, yeah, better than Dawn Staley.
18:31 And I'm saying we're having arguments about women's basketball?
18:34 How great is that?
18:35 Right, right.
18:36 I mean, that's the coolest thing, that we were having these discussions.
18:40 So this is just a great time, and I just hope they can take proper advantage of what's happening.
18:47 It'll be interesting to see if it translates to the WNBA.
18:50 Oh, well, bingo, because thus far it flies so far under the radar.
18:55 You know, people can't tell you who won the championship.
18:57 I forget who won the championship.
18:59 And it's off season, though, too, right?
19:01 Las Vegas, I think.
19:02 But yeah, yeah, it is.
19:04 And it's competing with baseball and football, which never goes away now.
19:08 You know, football is 12 months a year.
19:10 We're getting ready for the OTAs, followed by the mini camp, followed by training camp.
19:14 It ain't that far away, folks.
19:16 And, you know, the draft first.
19:18 The draft was just one of the great conversational topics in American sport now.
19:24 Did they trade number three or not?
19:26 Yeah.
19:27 Oh, my God.
19:28 And we got a lot -- this tastes -- we still have two weeks to go, plus before that draft takes place.
19:34 We're over two weeks away.
19:36 But it's been the dominant topic of conversation for two months already, and it's got another couple of weeks to go.
19:41 Anyway, so, yeah, the WNBA, that's -- will it translate into that?
19:46 We'll see.
19:47 You know, we'll see.
19:49 We lost a very important person in Boston sports history in Larry Lucchino.
19:58 I really liked Larry.
20:00 I did not have battles with Larry.
20:02 Like, I'm waiting -- when Dan feels better, I'm waiting to see if Shaughnessy, I'm sure, will have something to say, because Larry was -- he was the best.
20:13 And I just want to start by saying when these carpetbaggers first came in to buy the Red Sox, you know, we were all -- we were apoplectic.
20:25 There were air quotes on that line, folks, air quotes.
20:28 Okay, go ahead.
20:29 There were what?
20:30 Air quotes.
20:31 Yes.
20:32 Oh, yeah, air quotes.
20:33 Folks, there were air quotes on that line.
20:34 Yeah, air quotes.
20:35 I just want you to know that.
20:36 Okay.
20:37 Yeah.
20:38 But, yes, thank you, Cook, for the podcast.
20:41 You know, I mean, Warner was a Hollywood guy.
20:44 Larry was out with the Padres.
20:47 You know, John Henry had owned the Marlins.
20:49 What are they doing coming in buying the Red Sox?
20:52 You can make the statement that off the field, Larry Lucchino was the best thing that ever happened in the Boston Red Sox.
20:59 Well, in the 21st century, that's for sure, starting with the ballpark, but also starting with importing a young lad, a young whippersnapper, up-and-coming executive named Theo Epstein, because that's -- Theo is his protege.
21:13 And he brought him in from San Diego and hired him out there to start with, the Yale kid.
21:18 Absolutely.
21:19 Larry Lucchino, first of all, was an athlete.
21:25 He was a standout high school baseball player and a standout high school basketball player, was the backup point guard of the 1965 NCAA third place team, Princeton University, Bill Bradley's team.
21:39 He was already Highland's backup.
21:42 He was an attorney, a graduate of Yale Law. His entree was he was hired by the law firm in Washington headed by the legendary Edward Bennett Williams, whose autobiography -- his biography is entitled "The Man to See."
21:58 He was the power broker of the whole Democratic Party establishment and in the downtown in Washington.
22:05 And he was -- became very much Edward Williams, Bennett Williams' protege.
22:09 And when Edward Bennett Williams bought into the Redskins, Larry got his entree into professional sport.
22:16 So he now is the only person in the world that had an NFL championship ring, a baseball championship ring, and a Final Four watch or ring, whatever they give him.
22:30 Then when Edward Bennett Williams bought the Orioles, or got, you know, he brought Larry with him and that was Larry's entry into baseball.
22:39 And from then on he went to San Diego and to Boston.
22:42 He was a visionary. And one of the visions he had was what a ballpark should look like.
22:47 Camden Yards was a revolutionary park that was the first of the new wave of ballparks was built.
22:54 And he had -- however he knew -- had the foresight to hire this woman architect -- I shouldn't -- named Janet Marie Smith, who should be in the Hall of Fame herself, by the way.
23:05 I'm not -- I'm hardly alone in saying that -- to design this new ballpark. And it was revolutionary.
23:12 And it changed the whole idea of how -- what ballpark construction would be for the rest of time.
23:17 And that's how he made his initial name there.
23:21 But he was -- there's all kinds of great stuff out there for him now.
23:26 You've got to read it.
23:28 Tough negotiator, but a very witty, charming guy, but driven, yes, but he just got it, folks.
23:39 He just got it. And he proved it in three different places.
23:43 And four of you go to Worcester.
23:46 Oh, he did a great job.
23:48 And that ballpark, by the way, once again, is a state of the art treasure, that new Polar Park.
23:54 Right.
23:55 It's a wonderful place to go to a baseball game.
23:57 From Dan Shaughnessy's book with Tito Francona, which, by the way, if anybody hasn't read it, it's a must-read.
24:05 After the Red Sox reverse the curse and they win the World Series, right, and they're going to have the whole thing at Fenway Park,
24:13 and Tito is -- Terry Francona is like sky high, Larry comes coming in with a box of sweatshirts.
24:20 Tito, you've got to have the players wear their sweatshirts.
24:22 We're selling them online.
24:24 You know, that type of thing, which is, you know, Larry's the business guy.
24:27 Business.
24:28 Business. This is it. This is cash flow.
24:31 And Terry's like, God, Larry, come on, man.
24:35 It's a 2004 World Series champs, Boston Red Sox.
24:39 I want every player wearing them.
24:40 I want them out there.
24:41 You know, we've got to sell these things.
24:44 And like Francona was like, I don't want to deal with this.
24:46 But I never thought you could make Fenway an attraction the way they have.
24:53 It's amazing.
24:55 From the bleacher seats to the right field.
24:58 Now, the seats are always going to be small.
25:00 That's just the way it is.
25:02 But what they -- what Larry did with that ballpark was amazing.
25:06 >> You know, the theme, Larry and Janet Marie Smith, once again, she's executed this.
25:12 And she -- I remember, Larry, his mantra was do no harm.
25:18 Do no harm.
25:19 Make sure that whatever you do, you do no harm.
25:21 I objected to the monster seats.
25:25 Thought it was silly.
25:26 You know, I still think, by the way, people, if they want to sit there, fine.
25:30 It's a glorified beacher seat, but you're sitting over the wall, and that matters to people because I'm sitting over the wall.
25:35 Period.
25:36 You know, but --
25:38 >> It's kind of a bucket list thing, Bob, believe it or not.
25:41 >> I know.
25:42 The first year of the seats, they had no idea what to charge.
25:45 They didn't know it was going to be as popular as it was.
25:48 I think they were like 15 bucks or something.
25:50 I don't know what they are now, but you get charged by the tier, first row, second row, third row.
25:54 Anyway, I was wrong.
25:57 Totally wrong.
25:58 Why?
25:59 It was an instant hit.
26:01 And that was -- Larry wanted that.
26:03 There's so many specifics we could, you know, go into with the things.
26:07 But, you know, he butted heads with people.
26:09 He butted heads with Theo.
26:11 His protege, they wound up having a dispute.
26:14 Theo left, but he did come back, and then they had six years of, I would say, getting along rather than, you know --
26:22 >> Well, you know, Larry also realized, and I think this is -- I don't know if it's part of the debate with baseball today.
26:31 Larry realized that, yes, you had the Saber metrics, and, you know, definitely the '07 team was more of a Theo personality than the '04 team.
26:41 But Larry realized you had to spend some money.
26:43 We had to get some names in here.
26:45 You know, we had to -- you know, so it was a combination of, you know -- well, Ortiz wasn't -- that kind of fell into their lap.
26:52 But, you know, you needed the big names, too.
26:55 You needed the Manny Ramirez and the Ortiz and the Becketts to go along with the Papabonds and Lesters, who eventually became stars.
27:03 You know, so that's what I remember about Larry was, you know, we still need to give -- we need some big names here to give people a reason to come to the ballpark.
27:12 >> Yeah, this -- he just got it all there, and it was remarkable.
27:19 >> Maybe the one swing and the miss was probably Bobby Valentine.
27:23 >> Yeah, that was a mistake.
27:25 >> That didn't work.
27:26 >> No, no question.
27:27 That was terrible.
27:28 We -- he's the man who memorably labeled our competitors down to the south as the evil empire.
27:35 >> Terrific.
27:36 >> Which drove Steinbrenner.
27:37 Steinbrenner hated it.
27:38 That was great.
27:39 He made a wonderful enemy in George Steinbrenner.
27:42 Now, I note that among the tributes that he's received today is from Randy Levine of the Yankees, who cited -- commended Larry as a very worthy adversary and enjoyed the competition with Larry.
27:56 He had the French read the -- you know, played the Red Sox on a level with the Yankees, and so in the 21st century, they've been better than the Yankees overall.
28:05 So, yeah, the tributes are going to be coming from everywhere.
28:10 >> Yeah, he was brilliant.
28:11 I mean, I thought he was going to be commissioner at one point, but maybe -- I don't know.
28:14 He might have been too opinionated to be commissioner.
28:17 But, you know, Larry was like -- he was a PT Barnum because it took somebody from Baltimore to call the Yankees the evil empire.
28:25 You know, we were -- I mean, think about it, Bob.
28:28 I mean, you're a Bostonian.
28:29 You came here.
28:30 You went to B.C.
28:31 I mean, I lived here all my life.
28:33 You've been here for pretty much all your life.
28:36 And he had this inferiority complex with the Yankees.
28:41 >> Oh, yeah.
28:42 >> I mean, just couldn't get over it.
28:44 >> Sure.
28:45 >> You know, just couldn't -- and here this guy comes in from Baltimore/San Diego, and he's the guy to call them the evil empire and finally stand up to them and is part of the reason that we finally beat the Yankees.
28:59 It's crazy.
29:00 The evil empire thing is great.
29:02 I mean, that's -- that's legendary.
29:07 >> I've got to tell you -- >> Yeah, go ahead.
29:09 >> A little story.
29:11 So when I had a podcast of my own, Bob Ryan Boston podcast a number of years ago, 2017 to be precise, and '18, I had Larry Lachino one day.
29:21 And it was down at the Boston Public Library.
29:23 And in preparation for it, I wanted to -- I started off by referencing the 1965 Providence/Princeton game in the Eastern Regional Final.
29:37 Final score, Princeton 109, Providence 69.
29:40 And, of course, as a BC guy, I hated Providence at the time and feared them.
29:45 And Larry was on that team, of course.
29:49 So I started off by, you know, referencing that.
29:55 Getting the interview off to a wonderful start.
30:00 He was so happy, beaming about that way.
30:03 We got up to that.
30:05 So that's all.
30:06 It's available out there, folks.
30:08 You can go find it, the Bob Ryan Boston podcast with Larry Lachino.
30:12 It was fun.
30:13 I'm proud of that.
30:14 >> Yeah, he feared no one.
30:16 He really did.
30:17 Very important.
30:18 I mean, I wrote a friend, Jerry Callahan, he had battles with Dennis Callahan on the radio show.
30:25 He didn't back down from anybody.
30:27 Very, very, very, like you said, brought in Theo.
30:32 I mean, changed the culture.
30:34 Changed the culture here in Boston.
30:36 All right, Robert, anything else on your mind?
30:38 >> Yeah, we got a very -- as we speak, we are speaking on a Wednesday morning at the moment.
30:43 And there was a very interesting game, the Celtics.
30:46 Finally back home after a six-game road trip.
30:49 And they're playing the Oklahoma City Thunder, who are in a torrid Western Conference race.
30:55 They are tied with Minnesota two games behind the Nuggets.
31:01 And this is a visit bringing MVP candidate Shea Gilgis Alexander to us, and SGA, as he's popularly known.
31:11 And we're going to get to look at Chet Holmgren.
31:15 Who is falling a bit behind Victor Wimbyana in the rookie of the year thing now, after he was definitely in the lead at Thanksgiving, or Christmas anyway.
31:24 But giving us a solid 16.7 rebounds, three assists game.
31:29 The string bean from the state of Minnesota.
31:33 And so it's going to be a game I'm looking forward to.
31:37 And to see, you know, how they're going to react and how the Celtics are going to react.
31:41 But it's good that this franchise, which is so in my opinion, ought to be in Seattle.
31:47 But that's not that's another story.
31:49 It's been well received by the people.
31:51 They did. They, they, they. And I'm happy for the Oklahoma City fan.
31:55 They've been greatly supportive of this franchise. And I hope they're enjoying the season this team is giving them.
32:02 I don't know, Bob. I just started this with the Celtics. Do you think their confidence is shaken at all?
32:09 I know. I think they.
32:13 I mean, I don't know for sure, but no, I know as an observer. I mean, you know, I mean, no, I don't.
32:18 I think they're you know, I think the coach, his attitude towards these two things, the big losses, I mean, the big lead blowns and the final two minutes.
32:34 I think he thinks he's in control. And I think he's transmitted that.
32:38 But I don't think so. And I certainly don't think Jalen Brown has lost any confidence in any way.
32:42 That's for sure. You know, and I wouldn't think that holiday or white or adjacent shouldn't, you know, but the pressures on Jason, you know, he's he's ultimately he's got to play an MVP level for them to to get this job done.
32:57 I mean, all the time, not just, you know, some of the time.
33:01 I don't think so. But I think the guy there that can keep them honest is this is Jalen Brown.
33:08 I think he's an eternal, you know, fourth rate person. So, oh, that's all. I'm not too worried about. And then his big brother, big brother out.
33:17 I'm glad to have him around to write. Exactly. All right, Bob. Enjoy Phoenix.
33:23 Yes, thank you. I'm looking forward to it, of course. And, you know, the just the men's tournament, you know, it's still going on to, you know, folks.
33:36 Yeah. Oh, by the way, which everybody thinks it's you kind of foregone conclusion. So we'll see. Yeah. All right, Bob. Brought to you by Price Prize Picks, the exclusive daily fitness and partner of CNS Media.
33:47 It's that easy with Prize Picks. Until next time, Bob Ryan of Gary Tornow.
33:53 And I'm out.