In today's episode of The Big 3 Podcast, A. Sherrod Blakely is joined by Jacob Tobey of 9News in Denver, CO following the Celtics loss to the Nuggets. Sherrod and Jacob discuss what stood out to them in this game, its impact on the Celtics going forward, and if Tatum is clutch enough to win a title, and much more!
The Big 3 NBA Podcast with Gary, Sherrod & Kwani is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube as well as all of your go to podcasting apps. Subscribe, and give us the gift that never gets old or moldy- a 5-Star review - before you leave!
This episode of the Big 3 NBA Podcast is brought to you by:
PrizePicks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy!
Football season may be over, but the action on the floor is heating up. Whether it’s Tournament Season or the fight for playoff homecourt, there’s no shortage of high stakes basketball moments this time of year. Quick withdrawals, easy gameplay and an enormous selection of players and stat types are what make PrizePicks the #1 daily fantasy sports app!
The Big 3 NBA Podcast with Gary, Sherrod & Kwani is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube as well as all of your go to podcasting apps. Subscribe, and give us the gift that never gets old or moldy- a 5-Star review - before you leave!
This episode of the Big 3 NBA Podcast is brought to you by:
PrizePicks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy!
Football season may be over, but the action on the floor is heating up. Whether it’s Tournament Season or the fight for playoff homecourt, there’s no shortage of high stakes basketball moments this time of year. Quick withdrawals, easy gameplay and an enormous selection of players and stat types are what make PrizePicks the #1 daily fantasy sports app!
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SportsTranscript
00:00 [CLIP]
00:17 The Big 3 NBA Podcast is powered by PrizePace, the exclusive daily fantasy partner of the
00:23 CLNS Media Network.
00:25 Welcome to another edition of the Big 3 NBA Podcast, I'm your host Sharod Blakely with
00:30 a special guest today, Mr. Jacob Tobey from Nine News in Denver.
00:36 Jacob, how you doing my friend?
00:38 I'm good man.
00:39 Back, I was decent enough to get the call back.
00:42 So the first episode was decent and we're going to build on it and make it better this
00:46 time.
00:47 Exactly, exactly.
00:48 That's what we try to do.
00:49 We try to build these things up.
00:50 Well, we start from a level and then we raise the level as we go on.
00:55 I'd say the same for the Celtics, unfortunately, though.
00:57 They suffer the second loss of the season to the Denver Nuggets, 115-109.
01:03 You were there at the game.
01:05 What were just some of your impressions of the game as you kind of look at it in retrospect?
01:09 Yeah, well, the first thing is that, you know, if people, Boston or New England people haven't
01:13 been to Denver, they would feel very at home.
01:18 There are a ton of Celtic fans in Denver.
01:23 And Denver is one of those cities where it's like a transplant city, so there's not a ton
01:26 of people that live in downtown that are actually from Colorado.
01:29 It's a lot of people from LA, a lot of people from Boston, a lot of people from Chicago.
01:34 So when those teams come into town, it basically feels split down the middle.
01:39 You know, it's almost as loud of a cheer when Jokic scored last night as when Jalen Brown
01:44 was going off or Jason.
01:46 It was pretty wild.
01:48 And so I think the Celtics kind of felt, you know, it wasn't really a home, you know, atmosphere
01:56 for the Nuggets.
01:57 They kind of felt, all right, you know, we got some people in here.
01:59 Let's, you know, and especially like with how their season's going, they just have probably
02:03 acquired more fans throughout the year.
02:07 But it was a fun game for sure.
02:08 I mean, it got down to the wire towards the end a little bit.
02:13 I think the game in Boston was maybe a tad bit more entertaining in the late game, but
02:19 for sure last night was fun.
02:22 And there are a couple, you know, big themes that you take away, like not being able to
02:27 beat the reigning NBA champs, Jason Tatum kind of struggling, Jalen Brown going off,
02:32 like there's a bunch of different stuff in there.
02:36 But you know, the Nuggets kind of got the job done and they weathered the storm and
02:42 they just did what the NBA champs do and they can just play a ton of different ways.
02:48 And they held on and the Celtics, for whatever reason, kind of lost it and just couldn't
02:57 regain it because in the second half, I think it was a 6-0 run by Porzingis to start.
03:01 Malone bangs a timeout.
03:02 You're like, uh-oh, here we go.
03:05 But then it never really built from there.
03:08 So that was kind of, you know, the second half, I think the start of the second half
03:12 was where Boston really could have made their impact and they just kind of didn't.
03:17 Yeah, well, the thing about the Nuggets this year is that, you know, and I've been doing
03:21 this for a while, and this might be one of the more disrespected defending NBA champs
03:27 I've seen.
03:28 I mean, when you talk about the Western Conference and you often hear about, you know, the great
03:32 things that OKC is doing and Minnesota is, in Anthony Edwards' words, are doing awesome
03:37 things and here come the Clippers.
03:39 And it's like, oh yeah, the Denver Nuggets, they're playing pretty good too.
03:42 It's like they have sort of, I think, kind of almost embraced that underdog theme, even
03:48 though in theory, they really shouldn't feel that way.
03:51 But it seems like those on the outside kind of perpetuate that a little bit.
03:57 And is it fair to say that they're kind of feeding off of that a little bit?
04:00 Yeah, they felt off.
04:01 They felt off it last year.
04:05 And it's just the way Denver has been perceived for a long time.
04:10 Like, you know, you got your boy Stephen A. Smith out there saying he did not want to
04:14 come here for the finals once again.
04:16 Like, he's trapped in Denver.
04:17 And you know, that carries a little bit of weight when Stephen A. says something and
04:22 people are like, ooh, Denver, like weird.
04:24 But hey, sorry, dog's barking.
04:28 Don't talk about his Stephen A. That's what he said.
04:34 He's barking because you're talking about Stephen A.
04:39 But no, that's just the way that this city has been built.
04:41 It's always been overlooked.
04:42 It's, you know, except when the Broncos were at their peak, it's just been an overlooked
04:47 sports town.
04:49 And they're on their mountaintop right now.
04:53 But you're right, Jamal, I think Jamal for sure is the one that maybe takes it a bit
04:58 more personal than the rest of them, that his team is not being talked about.
05:02 But at the same time, he buys into the Jokic system where it don't even listen.
05:10 It doesn't even matter.
05:11 Let's just keep doing our thing.
05:13 Let's just keep being in this routine of getting the job done.
05:18 And it doesn't seem to bother him too much.
05:20 I would say Murray and probably Coach Malone are the two that maybe get the most irritated
05:26 about not being discussed.
05:29 It's more so Murray with like, or Malone with like maybe Murray not getting the recognition
05:34 of being an all-star or being one of the best players in the world.
05:39 And he surely is.
05:40 He just wasn't healthy for a month this year.
05:42 That's probably why he wasn't in the all-star game.
05:43 So they feed off it 1,000%.
05:47 And I think they got jacked up last night, playing against a team that everybody is pretty
05:52 much in agreement that they're going to win this year.
05:56 But they can't beat Denver right now.
05:59 They can't beat them.
06:01 And it's interesting that you bring that point up because for those who are listening, they
06:07 may not know this, but you are a Massachusetts native.
06:10 Went to Suffolk University.
06:12 Massachusetts is home.
06:14 And so just kind of knowing you and knowing how you have followed the Celtics, how much
06:20 did this loss, how does this impact how you view the Celtics?
06:26 I mean, to the point that you just made a minute ago, they have been the almost ordained
06:31 Eastern Conference champion in the eyes of many.
06:34 Does this second loss to Denver diminish your thoughts on their chances of getting to the
06:40 finals or let alone winning it, but just getting to the finals?
06:45 I wouldn't say getting there.
06:47 Winning it though.
06:49 And it's not like, for me, like last night was like in Boston, like one-offs can happen.
06:55 Like you can lose a close game to an NBA champion and it'd be fine.
06:57 But like when they didn't come out and beat them the second time, I was like, I don't
07:02 know, because this team has a problem with some of their mental capacity with Miami and
07:06 stuff that happened last year and the year before.
07:10 You wonder if that plays a part in it.
07:13 And it wasn't like Tatum played well and the supporting cast just didn't have it.
07:20 It was the opposite.
07:21 The supporting cast was pretty good.
07:24 At least his running mate was pretty good.
07:26 And Brown and Tatum just didn't have it.
07:28 Had a chance to hit a big shot in the corner, wide open three late.
07:32 And it would have put him up by one point at that point.
07:35 Yeah.
07:36 You can't ask for a better look than that, man.
07:39 Right.
07:40 Well, and just, and Jacob, to your point, just the whole setup of that play, that play
07:43 came about because Jaylon Brown got up in Murray, forced the turnover.
07:47 They were able to get on transition.
07:49 They swung the ball around because there were two other guys who had shots that they could
07:53 have in theory taken, but they passed up decent shots for the best shot you could literally
07:58 get in that moment and Tatum whiffed.
08:02 Well, he did.
08:03 He did.
08:04 And so that's what's, you know, that's, what's concerning about it.
08:08 I would say like, if I didn't know the history of like the Miami series and all that, I would
08:12 say it really wouldn't hurt the Celtics, but it just, it's gonna mentally, I think that's
08:16 going to play a big part of it.
08:18 I don't know if they were necessarily like tired from the elevation.
08:21 I didn't, I don't know if I saw that last night.
08:25 You know, I meant to, we were at shoot around and I meant to ask Derek White, you know,
08:29 you grew up here in this elevation.
08:31 Like is it actually like real, you know, does it actually feel that way now that you've
08:35 stepped away from it and you're coming back?
08:37 I would assume he's, he would say, even though he grew up in it, probably still, yes.
08:41 Like it does obviously have some sort of effect, but I wouldn't say that was the leading factor
08:45 last night while the Celtics were, you know, losing.
08:48 Like it didn't seem too, too tired to me.
08:51 So it's, it's a mental thing.
08:55 And now, you know, these two teams won't meet until, till June.
08:59 If you know, everything goes to the way they want it to.
09:01 So we won't, we won't know again.
09:05 But I think it, it, it showed me a little bit of like, I don't know, you know?
09:11 Yeah, I do.
09:13 I know exactly what you're talking about.
09:15 And even with the loss, even with them now having lost two in a row, which for them is
09:20 for them losing two in a row is like for most teams losing like six, seven, eight in a row,
09:24 because it just doesn't happen, particularly not this season.
09:28 And yet they still have a pretty sizable lead in the Eastern Conference, still have control
09:33 of their own destiny as far as home court advantage throughout the playoffs.
09:37 But there were some disturbing things.
09:40 And we'll talk about Tatum a little bit later, but I wanted to talk a little bit about just
09:44 the bench play.
09:45 And that was one of those things that Boston has been really kind of stressing that they're
09:49 getting better and better at.
09:51 And then you see a guy, Peyton Watson, who the hell is Peyton Watson?
09:56 I tell you, he's the guy that had more points in the entire Southeast bench.
10:00 That's who he is.
10:01 Speak to me a little bit about just the second unit impact.
10:06 And if these two were to meet in the finals, because obviously we know what Yogi can do.
10:10 We know what Jamal can do.
10:11 We know that.
10:13 But it's guys like Peyton Watson who ultimately may determine which way this series goes.
10:19 And so speak to just that second unit, some of those, the guys that people maybe not know
10:23 that much about on that Nuggets roster that can potentially make an impact in the series.
10:29 Yeah, so like I was actually talking about it last night with somebody from the league.
10:35 After the game, we were we were kind of out somewhere and we were kind of talking about
10:39 the benches.
10:40 It was like the starters are very talented on both sides.
10:45 It's the bench that's going to win or lose his finals if this is what it's going to be.
10:52 Watson is probably the only sure thing off the Nuggets bench right now.
10:56 That's the funny part.
10:58 They hit on him, man.
10:59 He was not playing much at UCLA.
11:02 He had three points a game, but his potential was unreal.
11:08 And the Nuggets saw something in it.
11:09 You know, they've done a great job of drafting.
11:12 Yokech obviously was kind of a lucky throwaway pick, but like Murray Watson was like the
11:16 last pick of the first round a couple years ago.
11:19 Yeah, yeah.
11:20 Yeah.
11:21 You know, they obviously drafted Joker, but that was kind of a luck thing.
11:24 But Murray Porter, Christian Brown, you know, these Peyton Watson, like.
11:31 And no one really knew.
11:33 All right, this kid is talented for sure.
11:35 He's got the body type.
11:37 He's got the attitude.
11:39 Confident as heck.
11:41 And I love that as a young guy.
11:43 He is a confident cat.
11:45 And but like what was going to be his game?
11:48 Because he wasn't like a knockdown shooter coming out of college.
11:54 Good defender, like, but wasn't raved about.
11:59 But he's a good defender.
12:00 He is being raved about as a defender now.
12:02 He is blocking shots, mucking things up down low in transition.
12:07 He's fast as heck.
12:09 He gets to the rim.
12:10 He does a bunch of different stuff.
12:13 He'll hit an occasional three.
12:14 I think he was only one for last night, but he'll hit.
12:16 I think the one he hit last night was pretty big in the second half.
12:21 And he just plays with confidence.
12:25 And he's earned Michael Malone's trust, which is hard to do.
12:29 He was asked yesterday pregame, like 20 games left-ish.
12:35 Like how do you see rotation?
12:38 And it was pretty much like Watson's in and still trying to figure it out.
12:43 Is it Reggie Jackson as our backup point guard?
12:44 Is it Justin Holliday?
12:45 Reggie's struggled recently.
12:48 And Holliday played well against the Lakers last Saturday.
12:52 And so there isn't really a lot of knowns off the Nuggets bench as well.
12:57 Like Christian Brown's a good defender.
13:00 He's been up and down this year offensively.
13:02 So Peyton Watson is like the guy.
13:05 And the Nuggets really don't have a ton of big guys off the bench.
13:08 Like Zeke Noggi will play a little bit, but he's not--
13:12 I don't think he has the full trust level of the Nuggets coaching staff.
13:16 So you're right.
13:18 The Celtics' Nuggets bench aren't that great.
13:21 So who really is going to step up in these big games?
13:24 And it was Watson.
13:26 When you make an impact on defense, you'll
13:29 win Coach Malone's trust over way easier than you are just putting in buckets.
13:34 Football season may be over, but the action on the floor is heating up.
13:38 Whether it's a tournament season or the fight for a playoff home court,
13:42 there's no shortage of high stakes basketball moments this time of year.
13:47 Get in on the excitement with Prize Picks, America's number one fantasy
13:51 sports app, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash.
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14:29 [MUSIC PLAYING]
14:32 One of the matchups that going into that game that a lot of us
14:36 were looking forward to seeing, and certainly it had its bright spots,
14:40 where it looked really, really good.
14:42 And other times, it looked like it was just a very lopsided affair
14:45 in favor of Denver.
14:47 And I'm speaking about Jokic and Prazingis.
14:49 And just that's a matchup that the Celtics pretty much all season long
14:54 have been able to benefit them.
14:57 As you know, Prazingis, with a seven footer who can score inside, outside,
15:02 pretty good passer, reminds you probably in some respects
15:06 of another guy who's a two-time league MVP who plays in Denver.
15:10 But in that particular matchup, he was able to dominate Prazingis
15:17 when it absolute mattered most down the stretch.
15:20 Speak to how he just has this incredible pulse for what
15:25 the game needs at the right time.
15:27 I mean, speak a little bit about that part of Nicola's game.
15:32 Yeah, he-- it's crazy watching him every night.
15:39 I said that last time I was on here because it's true.
15:43 Well, it was Prazingis.
15:45 Prazingis was 9 of 23 from the field.
15:50 You don't see that too often from him.
15:52 No.
15:52 Nicola is a big, girthy guy.
15:58 He's not taller than Prazingis.
16:02 But he's just big.
16:03 He's hard to move out of the way.
16:06 And he doesn't get the credit of a first or second team
16:11 all-defensive player.
16:12 And he's not bad.
16:13 I'm not saying he's that.
16:15 But he's better than people think he is on defense.
16:18 I mean, he controls it back there.
16:20 He's calling out signals.
16:23 And so defensively, I think he still
16:25 does make an impact of getting up in people's faces
16:28 and banging down low.
16:31 But the way Joker operates on offense--
16:34 and it's-- I looked over at-- or someone looked over at me
16:37 last night in the media section and was like,
16:39 Joker gets the ball at the free throw line
16:41 or below in the paint.
16:43 And they're still coming to double him.
16:46 And he just-- he whizzing it to the corner,
16:49 open through, whizzing it to Aaron Gordon, dunker spot
16:52 down low.
16:54 Aaron Gordon changed the game last night for sure, too.
16:56 Yeah.
16:56 He had some big plays, big plays.
16:59 Big, big, big dunks.
17:01 And teams just don't--
17:06 I don't-- teams have a hard decision.
17:08 Like, if we're going to double him,
17:10 he's still going to make the nicest pass ever.
17:11 If we don't double him, he's going
17:13 to shoot this freaking thing over everyone's head.
17:16 So it's really hard to defend him.
17:20 But yeah, did you hear Shaq last night?
17:23 Latvian lasagna.
17:24 That's what he said about Porzingis.
17:27 Shaq, you're better.
17:28 Shaq's better than that.
17:29 He's got better ones than that.
17:30 I'm going to put--
17:31 I'm going to say, you know, Shaq, try that one again.
17:35 Latvian lasagna.
17:37 That went viral.
17:40 And you know, I don't necessarily
17:41 agree with the way he phrased it.
17:43 But like, yeah, I mean, Porzingis, compared to Jokic,
17:47 is thin, is not as strong as him.
17:52 So on either side of the floor, the matchup
17:56 is in favor of the Nuggets.
17:57 But on any other team, it's Porzingis.
17:59 I mean, he's been killing dudes.
18:02 And we went to shoot around yesterday morning.
18:05 And I'd never seen him in person before,
18:06 because whatever game I've covered,
18:08 it just hasn't been a whatever team.
18:10 He's on Knicks, Navs, Wizards, whatever.
18:13 And he is massive.
18:16 He is a really big guy.
18:19 But he just didn't really enforce it last night.
18:21 Right.
18:22 Right.
18:23 To me, I think that's the beauty about Jokic's game,
18:25 is that he literally gives the game what it needs.
18:27 Because you could see down the stretch,
18:30 as he's backing Porzingis up, the Celtics
18:34 look almost paralyzed.
18:35 Do we double?
18:36 Do we stay with our men?
18:37 And they stayed man to man.
18:39 And Jokic did the--
18:42 he doesn't waffle on what he's supposed to do in the moment.
18:48 Like, whatever you're doing defensively,
18:50 he knows what you're doing.
18:51 He knows what you want to do.
18:53 And he's going to make the right basketball
18:55 play to inflict the greatest amount of punishment on you
18:58 as possible.
19:00 And he's doing it with having a dad bod, which is-- which,
19:02 for those of us weekend warriors,
19:05 we love that about him, because he runs up and down the court
19:08 the way we look like we want to run up and down the court.
19:12 He's a little more athletic than us, though.
19:13 I give him that.
19:15 He just makes it look weird.
19:17 But the dude's bringing the ball up the court.
19:19 He's starting the out.
19:20 It's like, he does it all.
19:23 And it's such a luxury for that type of guy
19:26 to be your guy that you revolve everything around.
19:29 Because Murray then-- you know, Murray can play off the ball
19:33 half the game, because Jokic is the point center.
19:39 And it's-- I don't know how you defend it.
19:42 You know, I really don't.
19:43 And I don't know if the Celtics can.
19:46 A few times this season, they haven't.
19:50 Here's the thing that--
19:52 one of the things that I've noticed,
19:53 and this is just really consistent just
19:55 through the ends of time when it comes to playoff basketball,
19:59 is that often teams that make the deepest runs,
20:02 not necessarily because they're the best team,
20:03 but they're the team that got the best matchups so that they
20:06 can be their best version.
20:07 You know, you have a better handle, better pulse
20:10 on teams out West.
20:11 When you look at Oklahoma City, you look at Minnesota,
20:13 you look at the Clippers, which of those teams
20:16 do you think would give Denver the toughest challenge getting
20:20 out of the Western Conference?
20:23 I was talking to--
20:23 I was literally having this conversation with Scal having
20:26 dinner before the game last night.
20:28 Because he was asking me.
20:29 He goes, man, who are y'all going to have problems with?
20:35 And it's tough because Carl Anthony Towns is out.
20:41 That's going to change things a little bit, to say the least.
20:44 He'll probably slide a little bit.
20:46 Scal wasn't too high on them anyway.
20:49 I was a little different.
20:51 Anthony Edwards is a bad dude.
20:52 Did you see that game-winning block last night?
20:54 Yeah, he had a throw-in.
20:55 Anthony Edwards is one of maybe two or three guys in the NBA
20:59 that I would absolutely pay to see,
21:01 simply to see him and him only.
21:04 He hit his head on the backboard with a game-saving block
21:08 last night at the buzzer.
21:10 But you're right.
21:11 Cat out changes it.
21:13 I would say the Clippers, if they're healthy,
21:17 if they're competing.
21:18 I know Russ is out.
21:21 But if their two main guys are healthy,
21:23 I would say the Clippers.
21:27 It might be that year they get to the Western Conference
21:29 Finals.
21:31 And may give Denver some problems.
21:33 But still, I-- and the Lakers are surely not even
21:40 close to that.
21:42 Nuggets have beaten them eight times in a row.
21:43 They are not scared of a run.
21:46 It's been that many times?
21:48 Damn.
21:49 Eight in a row.
21:49 So the sweep last year, three games this year, and then
21:52 a game--
21:53 The year before that.
21:54 --last game of the regular season.
21:57 So eight straight against the Lakers.
21:59 Now, people always-- they'll be dangerous in the playoffs
22:03 that they get in, which I agree with.
22:04 I just don't think it's against the Nuggets.
22:07 I think they'll lose.
22:08 So it's probably the Clippers.
22:10 If they're healthy, Kawhi's playing great,
22:13 and Paul George, too.
22:14 But I still have the Nuggets coming out of the West.
22:18 I do.
22:19 And you should.
22:20 Because here's the thing about all of those teams.
22:22 Even if those teams are healthy, historically,
22:25 those teams don't get it done in the playoffs.
22:29 I mean, the Clippers have been a perennial laughingstock.
22:33 They're a good team now.
22:34 They've got good players.
22:35 They've got good coaching.
22:36 But historically, they've been a joke.
22:39 Minnesota, joke.
22:42 Oklahoma City, very talented but young.
22:44 And you're not really sure.
22:47 Gordon Hayward hasn't had the kind of impact
22:49 I thought he would.
22:49 Maybe he'll pick it up from playoff time.
22:52 But I thought it was a great pickup for them.
22:53 Because they really, I thought, needed someone
22:56 who's kind of been through some semblance of playoff battles
23:00 and wars.
23:01 But they feel like they're a year away
23:04 from being able to seriously contend for a championship,
23:07 even though their records suggest otherwise.
23:10 And to me, when the dust settles and you look at who's
23:13 the last team standing, the only team that makes sense
23:15 is the defending champs.
23:17 One, because they've done it before.
23:18 Two, because they have a roster of guys
23:22 who feed off of being the underdog.
23:25 And three, and we talked about this earlier, the what?
23:31 Losing Bruce Brown, you needed someone
23:33 to fill that kind of fill in the gap type of role.
23:37 And he seems to be delivering that.
23:39 And to your point, I watched some of the game.
23:42 And that confidence that you talk about, yeah, it's real.
23:47 I mean, he plays with a different kind of swag
23:50 that you normally don't see from a second year player who
23:54 is not necessarily fully ingrained in what
23:59 the team is about, per se.
24:01 But he still feels he belongs, even
24:03 though he hasn't really done a whole lot to show
24:05 that he belongs.
24:06 Yeah.
24:07 I was trying to find, because I heard this quote last night.
24:11 Yogic was asked about Peyton Watson's maturation.
24:17 And he said, it's like poison.
24:20 He poisons you with his energy.
24:22 And a ton of guys that can, first of all,
24:25 get Nicola to say something like that.
24:29 For Nicola, that's two sentences.
24:31 But that's a lot coming from him.
24:33 Two sentences, that's like getting Kawhi Leonard
24:36 to open up to you.
24:38 Yeah, and I would say Christian Brown probably
24:41 did the same thing last year, poisoned this team
24:44 with his defensive energy and earned the trust right up
24:47 into the playoffs and was playing like a rotation guy
24:52 for a championship team as a rookie.
24:54 And Watson's in his second year.
24:56 And he's injecting this energy into it.
25:02 And like I said last time, and for people
25:04 that didn't listen when I was on the first time,
25:07 confident dude, I was on the championship fire truck
25:11 with that dude.
25:11 And he was having a grand old time.
25:14 But I think at that point, he was happy that obviously
25:19 won the championship.
25:20 But he knew he was going to be a big part of this team
25:23 this year.
25:24 He knew that his role was going to change.
25:27 And he had a great summer.
25:29 He was excited about it.
25:30 He came in.
25:31 He's a strong dude.
25:32 He's ripped.
25:34 And the confidence is key.
25:37 And the one thing that we definitely agree on
25:42 is that Yogi just clutched when you need to be clutched.
25:45 He's proven that time and time again.
25:47 But I look over at the Celtics team.
25:50 And Jason Tatum, even though he is easily,
25:53 I think, in the eyes of everyone pretty much,
25:55 he's their best player overall.
25:57 But is he their best clutch player?
26:00 That has been the question that has been raised
26:03 not only after the Denver game, but really
26:05 throughout this season.
26:06 He's been in those moments.
26:07 And he's been in those positions where he hasn't necessarily
26:11 delivered when they absolutely needed him delivering a clutch.
26:14 And then you look at a guy like Derek White.
26:16 You look at a guy like Porzingis.
26:17 You look at Jalen Brown, who I think had, what, 42 points?
26:20 I think his season high.
26:21 They have shown the ability to come up with some big plays.
26:26 Where do you see Jason Tatum in the whole clutch argument
26:29 at this point?
26:31 You know, I grew up--
26:34 Paul Pierce is my favorite all time.
26:37 I knew it.
26:38 I knew it.
26:38 The truth will always set you free.
26:41 I-- he set me free a bunch of times.
26:44 And I watched--
26:46 I grew up watching him hit daggers,
26:49 and you talk about it post-game.
26:51 All right?
26:51 That's how I grew up.
26:53 All right?
26:53 Right.
26:54 I just don't feel the same confidence level.
27:01 But it's weird because he's a--
27:05 Tatum is more talented than Paul Pierce by 3,000 miles.
27:11 It's not even close.
27:13 And like, I mean, for last night,
27:15 like, wide open three in the corner.
27:18 You can't ask for more than that.
27:20 You can't ask for a better look from your guy.
27:24 And for some reason, when it went-- like,
27:25 when it left his hands, I was like, I don't think it's going--
27:29 and it didn't go in.
27:29 And I'm like--
27:30 I had that same thought.
27:33 And like, that shouldn't-- you know,
27:34 that shouldn't happen with him.
27:36 Right.
27:37 You know, he's hit a couple big shots in the playoffs.
27:40 And actually, Kendrick Perkins was
27:44 talking about this pregame, too, I think,
27:46 or during the day yesterday.
27:48 You know, his clutch efficiency, I think,
27:50 has gone down every year in the regular season.
27:53 I can't remember the numbers exactly, but it's gone down.
27:56 And I just don't get it.
27:59 And he-- I think-- what do you have?
28:01 12 shots last night?
28:02 Something like that.
28:03 He had 12 shots, yeah.
28:06 13 shots.
28:07 It's like 5 for 13 or something like that.
28:09 Yeah, 5 for 13.
28:10 Like, didn't inject himself into this game
28:17 when it needed to be.
28:18 Like, all right, you're going to miss the end of the game shot,
28:22 but like, can you get your team, you know,
28:26 on a run to get to that point?
28:28 Like, I just--
28:29 he didn't-- he didn't have it.
28:31 And I think that's--
28:33 now, you know, Jokic is going to win the MVP.
28:35 Like, I don't know if Tatum won--
28:38 you know, I don't know if Tatum lost his MVP last--
28:40 chance last night, but it kind of maybe put a bow on it
28:44 just because, you know, if he had had a big game, they won.
28:48 They waxed the nuggets.
28:50 Like, that would have--
28:52 It's a different conversation.
28:53 It was definitely a different conversation.
28:55 He gains momentum.
28:56 And again, best player on the best team in the world.
29:00 You know, he gained momentum, but 12 shots.
29:04 I didn't feel his energy.
29:06 Like, I felt Jalen Brown in that game.
29:09 I felt him going to the rim.
29:10 Like, he was getting anything he wanted at the rim,
29:13 no doubt about it.
29:14 Missed some free throws, but so, you know,
29:20 so did the whole Celtics team.
29:23 But I just never felt Tatum.
29:24 And that's the one thing is that these--
29:29 you just don't feel him sometimes.
29:31 And you always feel Jokic because if he's not scoring,
29:36 he's passing.
29:39 You always feel, to a certain extent, Jalen
29:43 because he does have that, you know,
29:45 attack mode to go to the rim.
29:47 Now, you know, Jalen loves taking some tough shots too,
29:49 but he goes to the rim.
29:51 You got to give him credit on that.
29:52 Like, he will go to the rim when he needs to.
29:55 And that's still the problem with Tatum
29:56 is that he just doesn't drive.
29:58 Yeah.
29:59 But it raises the question, though,
30:01 and what will end it on this.
30:03 I mean, if-- and we're not saying that Tatum is not
30:07 your clutch guy.
30:08 But if you had to go in a different route for the Celtics
30:12 as far as having that guy you turn to down
30:15 a stretch in a close game, are you turning to Jalen?
30:18 Are you looking at Derek Wyatt?
30:20 Will you go to, you know, Prazingis?
30:22 If you had to pick another player on this team
30:26 to be that clutch guy, that one guy that when the game is tight
30:30 and you need this bucket to force overtime or win the game,
30:33 who are you looking to besides Tatum?
30:35 If you had to pick one guy, not name Jason Tatum.
30:38 Give me D. White.
30:39 Give me D. White.
30:41 Give me him.
30:43 He is-- and I'm going to stand up, you know.
30:46 He's from Colorado.
30:47 He's from Parker, Colorado.
30:49 My girlfriend's from the same high school as him.
30:51 So I got a little bit of--
30:53 I got a little bit extra pride there.
30:56 He's a legend there, a legend Titan, legend high school.
31:01 So, you know, it's not just that shot against the Heat last year.
31:08 I just think the way he controls the game, the way he thinks,
31:14 is amazing.
31:15 And his journey, you know, I know his college coach,
31:20 Tad Boyle, and they produce some good guards.
31:26 You know, Derek White, Andre Roberson, Spencer Dinwiddie.
31:32 You know, Colorado produces good NBA point guards.
31:35 And White's the best of them, for sure,
31:37 other than Chauncey Billups.
31:40 But that was before Tad's time.
31:41 But yeah, like, his ability to play at any pace.
31:49 Like, I love him in transition, but I love him in half court.
31:53 I love him handling the ball.
31:55 I love him off the ball.
31:56 I love him coming off a pick and roll.
31:58 I love him coming off a curl, you know,
31:59 and then driving to the lane.
32:02 So he just does a bunch of different things.
32:04 And yeah, I would--
32:06 because I know he's not going to take a tough shot.
32:07 I worry when Jalen takes a contested 17-footer
32:14 with two guys on him.
32:15 I worry when Jason Tatum steps back, left wing, 35-footer
32:20 with a hand in his face.
32:21 Now, he makes it a bunch of times,
32:23 but he also misses them a ton, too.
32:25 And Derek White won't do that.
32:27 He'll drive.
32:29 He'll get fouled.
32:31 He'll crash the glass at the buzzer and put it in.
32:37 Now, to me, like, you know, they're still going to go Tatum,
32:41 and they should, because he's Tatum.
32:42 But for this argument, I would pick Derek White.
32:46 But--
32:47 Yeah, well, I don't know if you've
32:50 been listening in to the Big 3 NBA podcast,
32:54 but I have been on the D. White train for a while.
32:57 And the thing that I love about him, maybe more than anything
33:01 else, is that no matter what the moment is like,
33:04 his demeanor doesn't change.
33:06 When he scores 8, 9, 10 in a row,
33:09 he doesn't look any different if he's missed
33:11 four or five shots in a row.
33:12 And that level of consistency, I love
33:14 to see, because I know that more times than not,
33:17 it's going to pay off in those late game situations,
33:19 because the process that he goes through
33:21 to be successful previously isn't
33:24 going to change in that moment.
33:26 I am 99.9% sure that if Derek White is in that same corner
33:30 that Tatum was in and has that same shot,
33:33 he's going to make it.
33:34 I have very, very little doubt that he
33:37 will make a wide open corner three
33:39 in a late game situation.
33:41 And like you, Jacob, when I saw that ball leave Tatum's hand,
33:44 I wasn't feeling as though it was going to go down.
33:47 I was feeling immediately like this should go down.
33:50 Not that it's going to go down, but that it should go down.
33:53 In the back of my mind, thinking, it's probably not.
33:56 And that's what happened.
33:58 So every player has areas of growth that they have.
34:02 And I think for Tatum, I think it's pretty clear at this point
34:04 that he needs to become better in those end of game moments.
34:08 It seems like that's the one thing he has not
34:10 been able to really find some degree of success
34:14 with at this point in his career.
34:16 And it's weird because Kobe was that guy.
34:21 Yeah, his hero.
34:23 That's what his hero did.
34:24 Kobe could go 9 for 23, but then you
34:25 look at the actual box score, he made
34:28 three of his last four shots.
34:30 Yeah, it's weird that he idolized him,
34:32 and that's the one thing that's--
34:37 I think that's-- yeah, you're right.
34:38 That's the one thing that collectively the whole league
34:41 is like, dude, if you get this, you are no doubt the guy.
34:45 You are.
34:46 Yeah, you become your idol.
34:48 You become the idol that-- yeah, you become a legend.
34:51 You become that guy.
34:52 And like, Jamal Murray, I think the league knows,
34:59 the players know that he's one of the best players in the world.
35:02 I have no doubt in a late game when Jamal puts up a three
35:05 that it's probably cash, especially if it's open like
35:09 that.
35:09 And for me to say that about him but not Tatum is telling.
35:14 But it's real.
35:15 It's true.
35:16 Jamal has the-- he's got the receipts to back that up.
35:20 He's got lots of receipts.
35:21 Yeah.
35:23 He got a ton of receipts for sure.
35:25 Yeah, exactly.
35:26 And Tatum's kind of got what I call the broke man
35:28 pat down with that.
35:29 It's like, oh, it's in here somewhere.
35:31 I got that receipt somewhere.
35:32 No, you really don't.
35:33 You really don't have that receipt.
35:35 But that's what's like-- you can't teach the fire.
35:39 You can't teach that inside instinct.
35:41 Because like I said, whether he hits the last one or not
35:45 is whatever.
35:47 But if he hits three or four like Kobe would do,
35:50 to get your team in position, are you
35:52 aggressive towards the end?
35:53 That fire inside you, not a ton of people,
35:57 you can't teach that.
35:57 So it's the question we've all been wondering
36:00 for a couple of years now.
36:02 We won't know till--
36:04 now again, it only matters in the playoffs, really.
36:07 Like if he hits a couple game winners
36:09 his playoff run in the Celtics with a championship,
36:11 it's all fixed.
36:12 Right, exactly.
36:13 And that's really what is ultimately going to come down.
36:16 And hopefully, we'll see these Denver Nuggets and the Boston
36:19 Celtics playing for all the miles--
36:20 Get me home.
36:21 Get me home.
36:22 Exactly.
36:22 Get Jacob home.
36:24 Get me a hotel on the seafloor.
36:25 Get me a hotel on the seafloor.
36:27 Come on.
36:27 Absolutely.
36:28 Absolutely.
36:28 We need too many platforms for work.
36:30 So listen, Jacob, this has been awesome.
36:33 Awesome.
36:34 Projects, marketing, it's costing us--
36:37 Really quick, shout out to our sponsors,
36:39 Indeed.com, HelloFresh, and PrizePix,
36:41 the exclusive daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media Network.
36:46 Folks, download this latest episode of the Big 3 NBA
36:48 podcast on all your favorite podcasting apps.
36:52 A. Sharapovic, the host, Jacob Tobey, amazingly awesome guest.
36:56 Jacob, we'll do this again soon, my friend.
36:59 Playoffs.
37:01 Bring me on, baby.
37:01 Let's go.
37:02 Let's go.
37:03 Thanks, Jacob.
37:04 I'll talk to you soon.
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