The Power of Building Relationships and Leading with Value in Business

Entrepreneur

In the fast-paced world of business, success often hinges on more than just skills and expertise. It is the power of relationships and the ability to add value that can truly set individuals apart. Jeff Fenster and Roland Frasier delve into the significance of building relationships, adding value, and seizing opportunities in business.

Transcript

00:00:00 People particularly that have long-term relationships,

00:00:02 those are the people you want to hang around because they're definitely bringing value.

00:00:06 You don't keep relationships if you don't add value consistently.

00:00:10 You make my sword sharper.

00:00:12 I feel like the most selfish, manipulative thing that you can ever do

00:00:15 is to be nice to other people and add value.

00:00:18 Through my life, I have realized that there's always a paid channel of access

00:00:25 and that's the best channel to start with.

00:00:28 That's a mistake I think a lot of people make is that they go into something where they're paying

00:00:32 and then they're looking only at what's in it for them.

00:00:35 And to me, the big value, like if you want to get the most for yourself,

00:00:40 go in giving value, not expecting to take value, even if you paid for it.

00:00:46 And that's why networking events are the worst place to actually meet people

00:00:49 because everyone has their guard up and it's quickly a,

00:00:51 "This is what I am and how cool I am."

00:00:52 Yeah.

00:00:53 Me too.

00:00:53 I am an introvert by nature.

00:00:55 People don't think that, but the thing that is going to get you the most return

00:00:59 is to be a good human being.

00:01:01 Welcome to the show, Roland.

00:01:22 Hey, thank you.

00:01:23 Thanks for having me.

00:01:24 Of course.

00:01:25 This is one of my more fun interviews because of our fun past.

00:01:31 I think it was 12 years ago or 13 years ago we met for the first time.

00:01:34 Email marketing world.

00:01:35 Email marketing world.

00:01:36 Yeah.

00:01:36 It actually had trafficking conversion in like 2012.

00:01:38 Yeah.

00:01:39 And fun fact, that was one of the first stages I ever spoke on relationship capital and raising

00:01:44 money.

00:01:44 I remember.

00:01:45 Yeah.

00:01:45 It was a good talk too.

00:01:46 Everybody loved it.

00:01:46 It was cool because I actually dressed kind of like the way I normally dress with like a backwards hat

00:01:51 and nobody paid me any attention when the show, when the event first started and I was trying to

00:01:55 make friends and then they saw me on stage and they all had that look like, oh my gosh, that was

00:01:59 the guy who I ignored earlier.

00:02:00 Yeah.

00:02:01 So you never know who you're talking to.

00:02:03 Well, that's part of it.

00:02:04 And now it's made it up here onto the screen.

00:02:06 I like it.

00:02:06 Yes.

00:02:07 I think you and me both have built pretty much our career off relationships.

00:02:13 I want to actually go back because one of my favorite stories about you is how you got

00:02:17 involved with Ryan Dice and Digital Marketer.

00:02:20 And I think it's such a valuable lesson.

00:02:22 And I think if I'm correct, it started with Wicked Smart.

00:02:26 Yeah.

00:02:27 Yeah.

00:02:28 So they had a mastermind that, so first, because a lot of people don't know what masterminds are,

00:02:35 they had a group of people that got together that had different kinds of businesses, but mostly it

00:02:40 was online and just sharing the things that work best for them.

00:02:45 And I thought that was really cool.

00:02:47 And they had it that they offered at this big event that they have, a marketing event

00:02:53 called Traffic and Conversion Summit.

00:02:55 And I went, all these guys had these little badges on that were like, you know, War Room

00:03:00 was the name of the mastermind.

00:03:01 I was like, what is that?

00:03:02 You know, and they're like, oh, we get together and it's cool and you should do it.

00:03:04 And I didn't do it.

00:03:05 And I was very frustrated at myself for the next year because I was like, I should have

00:03:09 done that.

00:03:09 You know, so all the smart people with all those cool things.

00:03:12 And but I was like, yeah, I'm going to be too busy.

00:03:14 I don't know if I can make it.

00:03:15 So the next year I went and joined immediately.

00:03:19 And what was your business at this time?

00:03:22 I have a direct mail business that I've had for years and years and years.

00:03:26 And so that was my primary business at that time.

00:03:29 I had practiced law for years and at that point had kind of moved into this as full time.

00:03:35 And so I didn't really know what I wanted to do, right?

00:03:38 I was kind of, I've got a business that makes money and it was actually four businesses.

00:03:43 And but they were all similar.

00:03:45 And I was like, I don't know.

00:03:47 I don't know if I want to take this online, but the online stuff is interesting to me.

00:03:50 And I'd done some of that.

00:03:51 So so I went, I joined the Mastermind and they have a thing that I was like, well, number

00:03:58 one, I'm very intentional.

00:04:00 So I went into that saying, how can I get closer to the principles of that?

00:04:07 And through my life, I have realized that there's always a paid channel of access.

00:04:13 And that's the best channel to start with, because if you start there, you start as a

00:04:19 customer that they are there to serve.

00:04:22 You're going through a way that they've designated as this is how you get in touch with this

00:04:26 person.

00:04:27 I see so many people that kind of like rush up to people after an event and try to, you

00:04:31 know, try to pitch them on their idea or talk to them or have a relationship or they cold

00:04:37 email them or call them or whatever.

00:04:38 And it's like, or DM and say, can I buy you a cup of coffee?

00:04:41 Can I buy you lunch?

00:04:41 Like, I'm kind of busy.

00:04:43 I'm good for my lunches.

00:04:45 You know, people that are busy are busy.

00:04:47 And so when people that are busy create a paid channel of access, they're saying, this

00:04:51 is how you work with me.

00:04:53 So I've throughout my life, I've like, is there one for somebody I want to get to know?

00:04:58 So for them, it was this Mastermind.

00:05:00 So I joined the Mastermind because I wanted to get to know them.

00:05:03 I wanted to get to know them because I thought that there was going to be a good opportunity

00:05:07 to potentially do some deals together because I thought I had good skills that complemented

00:05:12 the skills that they had.

00:05:14 So I joined the thing and now I'm like, okay, I have to stand out because you can't just

00:05:20 be another customer.

00:05:22 You need to bring value.

00:05:24 So like that's a mistake I think a lot of people make is that they go into something

00:05:28 where they're paying and then they're looking only at what's in it for them.

00:05:33 And to me, the big value, like if you want to get the most for yourself, go in giving

00:05:39 value, not expecting to take value, even if you paid for it.

00:05:43 So I went in there and I was like, okay, I've got to stand out.

00:05:45 I've got to figure out how do I get them?

00:05:47 How can I do that?

00:05:48 Well, they had a contest called Wicked Smart where you, everybody that's in the room submits

00:05:55 something cool they've done.

00:05:56 Not an idea, something that they've actually done that had a tremendously cool result.

00:06:00 And I was like, I got to win that.

00:06:02 And I'm like, well, how am I going to win that?

00:06:04 Because all these people that are in there are all these online smart people and they've

00:06:07 been in there by the way, I'm a new guy.

00:06:09 So I just, I looked for what were the biggest challenges that people were having in the

00:06:18 online space and basically came up with three things that I thought would be good problems

00:06:27 to solve.

00:06:28 And then I just worked my butt off until I got solutions to those problems.

00:06:32 And so I went in loaded for bear, not with one, but with three things.

00:06:38 You remember the three?

00:06:39 I remember one of them was, how do you get, at the time that people were trying to figure

00:06:45 out, how do you get the names of people that are on Facebook and emails into a place where

00:06:54 you can actually contact them directly?

00:06:57 Because you could do it through Google, but you could only get 200.

00:07:02 So if you had 5,000, which was the cap, I think at the time, you wouldn't be able to

00:07:06 get that.

00:07:06 Why I found that Skype had a contact integration with Facebook and basically I saw that it

00:07:18 wouldn't give them to you, but it was actually sucking the name.

00:07:22 You could actually see all of the people's emails and everything as it was doing its

00:07:26 little thing.

00:07:27 And so I basically got with the person and figured out how to hack into that and suck

00:07:31 all those names out.

00:07:32 And so I was like, you can do it this way.

00:07:35 And another one was basically kind of Insta-ranking automatically for sites on Google using SEO.

00:07:44 So basically auto-generating content that would populate a blog network, private blog

00:07:48 network, and then rank sites with cross-links to basically drive authority to them to get

00:07:54 things ranked super quickly.

00:07:55 I don't remember what the third one was, but they liked them.

00:08:00 And so one of the guys came over to me after the thing that first off, they were like at

00:08:06 the front of the room, kind of not paying attention, you know, ish to everybody like

00:08:09 you are when you're busy.

00:08:10 And then they were like, I saw and then leaning forward and then it was like, are you guys

00:08:15 getting this?

00:08:16 And I was like, okay, that's pretty cool.

00:08:17 And so one of them came over to me after the thing broke and he said, hey, listen, I want

00:08:24 you to come to dinner with us tonight.

00:08:25 I want to be sure you sit next to me because I want to talk to you about some stuff.

00:08:29 And so that was my entry into being able to do that.

00:08:33 But then even after that, like I took really extensive notes at all of the meetings and

00:08:38 I gave them to everybody.

00:08:39 And so it was like notes that I took with links and everything.

00:08:42 And I'm a meticulous note taker and I don't want just the thing that you just said.

00:08:48 I'm going to be Googling the thing that you said and looking at it and finding a sites

00:08:52 and all of that kind of stuff.

00:08:53 So I'd put all the links and all that kind of stuff in it.

00:08:55 And it was like a pretty cool resource list every single time because everybody in the

00:09:01 room was really, really smart.

00:09:03 So I just gave that out to people and tried to help everybody that I could and built a

00:09:09 whole bunch of long-term relationships out of it.

00:09:11 What I love about that story and when you told me that story, I think 12 years ago when

00:09:14 we were hanging out in the green room during traffic and conversion, I fell in love with

00:09:19 you.

00:09:20 I fell in love with you because what you're really saying is you became a resource for

00:09:25 everybody around you.

00:09:26 Correct.

00:09:27 Which means your necessity, you're essential.

00:09:30 It's like when you're on a, you know, if you can only go to a deserted island with

00:09:34 like three things, you made yourself one of those three things.

00:09:37 That's the goal, right.

00:09:38 And that's very sticky.

00:09:39 And I think as everyone's trying to figure out how to grow relationship capital, how

00:09:43 do we meet people?

00:09:44 How do we get them to want to do business with us?

00:09:46 We want to do business with people who help us.

00:09:48 Right.

00:09:48 I mean, we're all selfish in a weird way.

00:09:50 Even if we don't think we are, everything is selfish.

00:09:52 Even doing something for your kids is selfish.

00:09:55 It makes you feel good.

00:09:56 Yeah.

00:09:56 And if I'm doing a business, I knew that day I had to do business with you.

00:09:59 And I think that's what was the beginning of our relationship.

00:10:02 And full disclosure, you have equity in all my companies.

00:10:05 You're an advisor and mentor of mine forever, a friend and someone that I just love picking

00:10:10 your brain and having good conversation because you make my sword sharper, whether you realize

00:10:16 or not, just as a friend.

00:10:17 I appreciate that.

00:10:18 And I felt the same way, the same thing when we met because you were talking about, I think

00:10:23 you had just raised some money or helped somebody raise some money.

00:10:26 And it was all the relationships that you had.

00:10:28 And to me, it's like people that have relationships care, people that have relationships give,

00:10:34 you know, and people particularly that have long-term relationships, those are the people

00:10:37 you want to hang around because they're definitely bringing value.

00:10:41 You don't keep relationships if you don't add value consistently.

00:10:45 And how you add value.

00:10:46 Because you add value by being very intelligent.

00:10:49 And as you said, precise, right?

00:10:53 You're very thoughtful on what you're trying to deliver.

00:10:56 My approach is because I don't necessarily see the world in the same way, even though

00:10:59 I want to.

00:11:00 Mine has always been lead with time, value, and effort.

00:11:03 If I can't help as far as like make myself more resourceful, as far as what I can do

00:11:08 to maybe improve your company, I'll end a hand.

00:11:12 Yeah.

00:11:12 I'll find a way to be resourceful and valuable.

00:11:15 Right.

00:11:15 And so there's lots of ways, but that day always stuck with me.

00:11:18 And I don't think I ever actually shared that with you.

00:11:20 So I felt like, you know, why not do it on the show?

00:11:21 It's funny because it was both ways.

00:11:23 Because I saw that same thing.

00:11:24 I was like, you know, look at all this, the network that you had.

00:11:28 I was like, that is impressive.

00:11:30 Got to get to know this guy, you know, so it worked out.

00:11:33 Well, thank you.

00:11:33 And even more importantly, when I went to Traffic and Conversion, I didn't know you.

00:11:38 Meaning, because back then this was, you know, pre-Instagram.

00:11:41 You knew Ryan, right?

00:11:42 I knew Ryan.

00:11:42 Yeah.

00:11:43 Yeah.

00:11:43 Through Neil.

00:11:43 Yeah.

00:11:44 At the time I had my digital marketing agency with Neil Patel.

00:11:47 And so I got introduced to Ryan and he invited me to come speak.

00:11:49 And so I'm there and I only knew Ryan and I knew Frank Kern a little bit.

00:11:53 And then I met you and Perry that night.

00:11:55 And that was my first introduction.

00:11:57 And I left going, oh my gosh, Roland is awesome.

00:12:01 Oh, that's awesome.

00:12:02 And I think the point is, in addition to paid access, is when you go and you think

00:12:06 that you're going for one person, by recognizing that everybody is someone you want to meet,

00:12:12 somebody you want to learn from.

00:12:13 Yeah.

00:12:13 That's one of those lessons that has allowed me to build my network, which is now one of

00:12:17 the ways that I'm resourceful and why people want me in a room.

00:12:20 Yes.

00:12:21 Yeah.

00:12:21 I think it's, it is another giant mistake that people make to think.

00:12:26 It's funny because I just hosted a mastermind and somebody in there was telling me that

00:12:30 they didn't think that the people were, they're like, I can't really get anything out of this.

00:12:35 This guy, you know, they've got a hundred million dollars in sales, but they're losing

00:12:40 money and these people aren't big enough and blah, blah, blah.

00:12:42 And I was like, well, I said, that is something that you can think about, but it will constrain

00:12:50 the connections that you make and the learnings that you have because yeah, this person's

00:12:55 got a hundred million dollars in sales and they're not making money.

00:12:58 But if you say I'm ruling that out, then you're not learning how did they get a hundred

00:13:02 million dollars in sales, which to me is pretty impressive because not a lot of companies

00:13:05 hit that.

00:13:05 Correct.

00:13:06 You know, it's, it's, you can absolutely learn something from everybody.

00:13:09 And so if you're kind and giving to everyone and you're open to the fact, fact that you

00:13:15 can learn something from everybody, no matter who it is, then you don't limit yourself.

00:13:22 Right.

00:13:22 We build these boxes around ourselves so artificially and it's so foolish because you can learn.

00:13:28 I mean, the unhoused person on the street, you can learn stuff from you really can.

00:13:33 Right.

00:13:33 I mean, I think in Batman, he, Bruce in the new Batman series or the last one, whatever,

00:13:41 he was homeless for a while.

00:13:42 He happened to be one of the wealthiest people in Gotham.

00:13:45 Right.

00:13:45 I mean, you don't know what you don't know.

00:13:47 You never know.

00:13:48 My son and I were talking about that.

00:13:49 There's a guy that I'm business partners with and, and he takes home, takes home maybe 40

00:13:55 million bucks a year.

00:13:56 And, and he's just the nicest giving guy that you would ever know.

00:14:02 And he's, you know, he's in a baseball hat.

00:14:04 He doesn't dress fancy, doesn't wear anything expensive or anything like that.

00:14:08 And he was standing at the bar talking to somebody and my son was like, man, you really

00:14:13 don't ever know who people, who you're next to.

00:14:16 He's like, I know what he does.

00:14:19 And he just looks like, you know, some guy at the bar, you know, and in a hotel, you

00:14:23 know, that's probably just a, like a, you know, business person, employee type guy.

00:14:29 But, but he's this serious, hardcore business person, you know, so maybe be nice to everybody,

00:14:37 maybe be open to the fact that you can learn from everybody and, and treat everybody with

00:14:43 the respect that comes from thinking that they can bring something.

00:14:47 And I love that.

00:14:49 That's what you said, because I, I feel we do a bad job in society of pre-qualifying

00:14:53 everybody.

00:14:54 We do.

00:14:55 Who are you?

00:14:55 What value do you have?

00:14:56 What do you do?

00:14:57 Yeah.

00:14:58 And that's why networking events are the worst place to actually meet people because everyone

00:15:01 has their guard up and it's quickly a, this is what I am and how cool I am.

00:15:04 Yeah.

00:15:05 And I'm terrible at those, by the way.

00:15:07 Me too.

00:15:07 I am an introvert by nature.

00:15:09 People don't think that, but if you put me in that room, like at the chamber of commerce

00:15:13 mixer where I have been before, I'm in the corner, just unhappy that I'm there.

00:15:18 And you're the same way.

00:15:20 I am the same way.

00:15:21 I'm not the, you know, hey, how you doing?

00:15:22 You know, good to meet you.

00:15:23 Because everybody wants something.

00:15:26 Yes.

00:15:26 And it's actually just, everyone has their chest out and they're worried that they have

00:15:29 to fit in versus, you know, and you, I don't know if you know the story, but when I had

00:15:33 my payroll business, my largest client before I took private equity capital in was from

00:15:38 the brother of the woman who does the checkout at Albertsons near my home.

00:15:42 I didn't know that, but that's it, right?

00:15:44 A year and a half of me just making small talk with her just because I'm checking out

00:15:48 and I didn't just put my head down and look at my phone.

00:15:50 She knew I owned a payroll company.

00:15:52 Right.

00:15:52 She knew my family.

00:15:53 She saw me every week, probably once or twice.

00:15:56 And she liked you.

00:15:56 And she liked me enough.

00:15:57 So when her brother was complaining that their payroll company effed up and they needed a

00:16:00 new one, she said, I have somebody for you and asked me if I wanted the intro.

00:16:04 He had over a thousand employees.

00:16:05 It was a six figure contract for my small little payroll company in '08.

00:16:08 Yeah.

00:16:09 Changed my whole company overnight.

00:16:11 Yeah.

00:16:12 You never know.

00:16:12 Never know.

00:16:13 Yeah.

00:16:13 And I, you know, what I like to say is everybody is someone's brother, sister, cousin, aunt,

00:16:17 uncle, friend.

00:16:18 And it's amazing what a friend can introduce you to.

00:16:21 It is.

00:16:21 I like to say the most selfish thing that you can do, the most manipulative thing that

00:16:28 you can do is be nice to other people and give value.

00:16:30 And isn't that cool?

00:16:31 Like, isn't it cool that the thing that is going to get you the most return is to be

00:16:38 a good human being?

00:16:39 Can you say that one more time?

00:16:40 That was just so good.

00:16:41 I want to make sure I remember it.

00:16:42 I feel like the most selfish, manipulative thing that you can ever do is to be nice to

00:16:46 other people and add value.

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00:17:13 Now, let's get after those goals.

00:17:18 Because that's what creates relationships.

00:17:20 That's what creates a feeling of reciprocity.

00:17:24 If you look at Gialdini and, you know, what is persuasion.

00:17:27 But it's so cool because, like, that's be a good human means you're going to be the

00:17:33 most successful person.

00:17:34 The people that play the game of manipulating, angling, jockeying for position, chest puffing,

00:17:40 all of that kind of stuff, you know, see the, we call them Bedelia's, you know, who's the

00:17:44 better deal?

00:17:45 The person in the room, I remember there was a networking event that I went to that had

00:17:50 a speed dating thing where you, a group of people sat in one ring of chairs, the other

00:17:55 people on the inner ring moved every five minutes or something.

00:17:58 And I came up to this guy and I knew who he was and, you know, he didn't, I was nobody.

00:18:03 But the whole time I was talking to him, it was, he was, you know, so the, the, the, the,

00:18:07 and another guy here in town that I met with and, and he had actually asked me to lunch

00:18:12 because I had done a launch.

00:18:14 And the whole time my wife went with me and she's like the whole time, he's just like,

00:18:18 you know, whatever, whatever.

00:18:19 It's weird.

00:18:21 Don't do that.

00:18:22 Don't do that.

00:18:23 No, I mean, that was the whole purpose of my talk at trafficking conversion.

00:18:26 I literally spent time going up to people and I wore back, I was young, I was 27 years

00:18:30 old.

00:18:31 I mean, this was 12 years ago, 27 years old backwards hat, gym clothes on back before

00:18:35 it was appropriate at business meetings.

00:18:37 And you could tell when everyone was talking to me, you're a fashion pioneer.

00:18:41 You know, I don't want to brag little fashion pioneer.

00:18:43 Um, I set trends 12 years in advance.

00:18:46 Yeah, no big deal.

00:18:47 But everybody was looking over me and I was thinking in my head how funny it was that

00:18:52 they could either, they either didn't take the time and quickly gave me the not interested.

00:18:56 Right.

00:18:56 They did what you said.

00:18:58 Kind of like, yep.

00:18:58 Uh huh.

00:18:59 Nice to meet you.

00:19:00 Oh, that's really interesting.

00:19:01 Oh, cool.

00:19:01 Yep.

00:19:01 Uh, I'm, I own this company and we're waiting to move on to someone who they thought added

00:19:06 more value.

00:19:07 I'm kind of surprised that that was the case there.

00:19:10 I like to feel that the people there having gone as a nobody, you know, and then going

00:19:15 as an owner.

00:19:16 Um, I know there's a difference clearly, but my experience was, was pretty, pretty open.

00:19:23 So I'm sorry that you had that experience.

00:19:25 Well, actually it worked out really well because then I went on stage and spoke and to see

00:19:30 those eyes.

00:19:30 And that taught me something that I've just put in my book about relationship capital.

00:19:35 It cemented the value of, they didn't realize that.

00:19:39 Now I'm the same human and whether or not I added any value to them or not is irrelevant.

00:19:44 But if I had started on stage, they would have spoken to me.

00:19:46 Right.

00:19:47 And that whole quantifying and classifying people prevents us from so much growth.

00:19:52 Yeah.

00:19:52 And I think successful people don't do that.

00:19:54 I think that they assess quickly.

00:19:57 So like, to me, I think that the beginning you must be open, but if you're open and then

00:20:04 you invest time in every one that you meet, you won't have any time.

00:20:11 So you have to make decisions quickly about, can I help this person?

00:20:16 Can this person help me?

00:20:17 Um, do I have time for this as a relationship?

00:20:21 And so I think that what, what you're saying to me is really smart because it's, you, you

00:20:26 know, you do pre-qualify and pre-judge and that's a huge mistake because it then shuts

00:20:32 you down to the people.

00:20:33 And they know people get that you, you felt that from everybody that you met that did

00:20:38 that.

00:20:38 Right.

00:20:38 But you also can't then talk to everybody because then you don't have time for your

00:20:44 family or for the things you need to do.

00:20:45 So I think it's a combination of that.

00:20:48 But where is the trigger point is the question remain completely open, help everybody bring

00:20:54 value.

00:20:54 Don't spend too much time in things that aren't going to go anywhere because I do find myself

00:21:01 asking more these days to what end, right?

00:21:04 To what end?

00:21:05 Okay.

00:21:05 So, you know, I'm going to go in, I'm going to do this deal that this person wants to

00:21:08 do and everything, and then what's going to happen, you know.

00:21:10 But you're further in the game.

00:21:11 Yes.

00:21:11 And I think in the first quarter of your business game, you need to go through script.

00:21:15 You need to try and see what's going to work.

00:21:17 You need to see if you can get a lead.

00:21:19 Once you have a lead, you got to play a little different.

00:21:21 Yep.

00:21:21 You have to be more strategic because to your point, I mean, you're obviously have

00:21:26 done so many amazing things.

00:21:27 You have a brand, the Roland Frazier brand, your personal brand, which is renowned.

00:21:31 You're on stages.

00:21:32 Everyone wants access to you.

00:21:34 And to your point, you now have a paid access to get with you.

00:21:38 And I highly recommend everyone take advantage of it because you're one of the few that I

00:21:42 will, and I say this not in a bad way towards everyone, but a lot of people have paid access

00:21:48 and maybe there isn't enough value for what they're getting.

00:21:50 I think a lot of that's true in a lot of cases.

00:21:53 Yes.

00:21:53 You genuinely give more value than like you're, no offense.

00:21:57 You're cheap.

00:21:58 Yeah.

00:21:58 It's, I'm a good value.

00:21:59 It's important to me though, because I feel like, so Ryan Dice is a business partner of

00:22:05 mine.

00:22:06 We've started, I think, three things where we would have somebody pay a hundred thousand

00:22:10 dollars and hated every single time and like gave the money back twice.

00:22:14 And then the last time was, you know, okay, well, we're going to just, you know, quintuple

00:22:18 over deliver.

00:22:19 It's like, I feel beholden to people like that.

00:22:22 I want to deliver 10 times the value that they bring.

00:22:25 And I think it's important to keep a non-paid channel open as well.

00:22:29 So like I answer all my social DMs, right?

00:22:34 Don't do the comments just too many.

00:22:36 But if somebody wants to reach out, there is a channel of access.

00:22:42 Now I'm not going to spend a tremendous amount of time with them, right?

00:22:45 If it's not, if there's not some thing that we're going to talk about, but I think it's

00:22:49 just important to find that balance.

00:22:52 And I'd love to brainstorm a formula here of how do you be open to anything so that

00:22:58 you're not prejudging and then also quickly assess how do I do this?

00:23:05 Like, what am I going to do with this while also being nice and giving back to the world

00:23:11 and balancing your time?

00:23:13 Sure.

00:23:13 That's, I want to read your book so I can figure that out.

00:23:16 Well, before I answer that, I do want to say that what you just said, I know is true because

00:23:21 when you showed up at my studio today, I actually just did someone's podcast.

00:23:24 They came to my studio and I was on their episode, their show.

00:23:26 His name's Kevin.

00:23:28 He mentioned to me that he won.

00:23:30 I was like, hey, you know, whatever we were chatting.

00:23:32 And I said, oh, Roland's coming.

00:23:33 He's like, Roland Frazier?

00:23:34 I'm like, yeah.

00:23:34 He's like, oh, you know, I actually reached out to him through DM and he responded to

00:23:38 me or at least I think it was him.

00:23:38 That's cool.

00:23:39 Yeah.

00:23:39 So and then I was like, well, stick around and meet him.

00:23:41 So you got to meet him, you know, as again.

00:23:43 Yeah.

00:23:43 So what I do with that exact, how I balance it is I immediately try to find what I can

00:23:48 do to add value.

00:23:49 Yes.

00:23:50 Quickly.

00:23:50 Yes.

00:23:50 And the lowest friction point.

00:23:52 Yep.

00:23:53 Where I can immediately.

00:23:54 So for him today, it was meeting you.

00:23:55 Yep.

00:23:55 I was like, well, stick around.

00:23:56 He's coming in 20 minutes.

00:23:57 Just as you walk up.

00:23:58 It was pretty easy.

00:23:58 Yeah, it was very easy.

00:23:59 He met you for one minute.

00:24:00 Right.

00:24:00 I delivered value.

00:24:01 He leaves.

00:24:02 He got what I think he wanted.

00:24:04 Yep.

00:24:05 I can now say I did good for Kevin or what I could.

00:24:08 And he'll remember.

00:24:09 Yep.

00:24:09 And I made a deposit.

00:24:10 Yep.

00:24:10 And that's what my book's about is I made a deposit.

00:24:12 So if I call Kevin and I realize someone's on his show or someone he knows, I'm sure

00:24:16 he'd make an intro now for me.

00:24:17 I don't have to spend a ton of time.

00:24:18 It didn't cost me anything as far as like money or extensive amounts of my time.

00:24:23 I didn't offend you.

00:24:24 Right.

00:24:24 It was a quick intro.

00:24:25 Right.

00:24:26 So I think what I try to do is I don't classify or quantify, but it's like the woman at Albertsons.

00:24:30 I just say hi.

00:24:32 Yeah.

00:24:32 And if there's something I can do, I can do it.

00:24:34 Yeah.

00:24:35 If not, it's just a nice gesture.

00:24:37 Yeah.

00:24:37 Humanize them.

00:24:38 Yes.

00:24:38 Because we're so focused on our phones and oblivious.

00:24:41 Just a human connection.

00:24:42 Make eye contact.

00:24:43 Say hi.

00:24:44 Yeah.

00:24:44 And what I teach my team to do is find something on the person to talk about.

00:24:49 Yeah.

00:24:49 Nice watch, nice shoes.

00:24:50 Right.

00:24:50 If they have a kid, always compliment the children.

00:24:52 Yeah.

00:24:53 Glasses, hat.

00:24:54 Sincerely, it's not that hard to find a thing like that.

00:24:57 We do that for getting good deals on hotel rooms.

00:25:01 Right.

00:25:01 It's make friends with the person at the front desk.

00:25:04 The person, I mean, that's the other thing people don't realize too is that like the

00:25:09 lady that you, that was working the checkout thing.

00:25:12 Right.

00:25:13 They're all decision makers.

00:25:14 They're all decision makers.

00:25:17 It's not the CEO.

00:25:18 Like there's a bunch of people that decide whether you get to talk to the CEO.

00:25:23 There's a bunch of people that the CEO has relationships with that they're going to ask

00:25:27 about you.

00:25:28 And so whatever you're trying to do, if you understand that everybody's a decision maker,

00:25:35 then you can say, and at every level, right.

00:25:37 Even down to the, the traffic stop.

00:25:41 You're driving too fast.

00:25:42 You get stopped.

00:25:43 Well, that officer has the ability to make the decision to give you a ticket or not give

00:25:47 you the ticket.

00:25:48 He's judge and jury right there.

00:25:49 All the way up to you're in jail and the district attorney is chasing you.

00:25:53 Right.

00:25:53 It's, it's, it's just amazing.

00:25:55 People don't think about that.

00:25:56 And so I know people that disregard the officers.

00:25:59 I got a ticket a few years back and, and the officer that gave it to me is at the end.

00:26:04 He said, thank you for being nice.

00:26:06 And I was thinking, hey, you still got me a ticket.

00:26:09 Yeah.

00:26:10 But I was, it was funny because, well, cause I guess it was one of those stupid things

00:26:16 where they are truly there to hit the quota.

00:26:19 Right.

00:26:20 But, but what am I going to, you know, it's, but he had the ability to do that and I have

00:26:25 been let go and I'm not a, you know, attractive young woman that, you know, you know, although

00:26:32 I do try to identify one while they're giving me the ticket, but no, it, it really does

00:26:36 make a difference.

00:26:38 And so like going to the lady you were talking about or at hotels to get upgrades, I'm looking

00:26:43 always for something I can connect with someone on that we have in common.

00:26:49 Where are you from?

00:26:51 Your accent is this, you live there, you're here, you know, what's your favorite room

00:26:54 in the hotel, whatever.

00:26:55 And then looking for something I can compliment them on.

00:26:59 And it's so easy.

00:27:01 And if you can make that a habit, then you're making that deposit instantly.

00:27:08 And I get upgraded to crazy rooms for no extra cost all the time, just because of that, like

00:27:15 that alone.

00:27:15 And I know that it carries on in the whole rest of life because it's, it's, I don't find

00:27:20 life to be difficult.

00:27:22 You know, I find that I move through life happy and with good relationships and with

00:27:28 people going out of their way to do things for me.

00:27:30 And it's not just because, because it's been before I had any business success or personal

00:27:34 brand or anything.

00:27:35 I think because you're a nice human being to other humans and you're looking for that

00:27:40 easy way to connect and make that initial deposit.

00:27:42 And it's a track, it's attraction.

00:27:44 Yes.

00:27:44 People are attracted to positivity.

00:27:47 Negativity is not attractive.

00:27:49 No, it's repellent.

00:27:50 It's repelling.

00:27:50 Yep.

00:27:51 And it works whether you're an employee and you do it with your coworkers.

00:27:54 It's amazing.

00:27:56 You know, my friends always joke, oh, fenced your luck because things fall in my lap.

00:28:00 They don't fall in my lap, but they fall in my lap.

00:28:03 Yeah.

00:28:03 They fall in my lap because I'm out doing all these things every day to create enough

00:28:07 opportunities where things just fall in my lap.

00:28:09 Right.

00:28:10 Oh, I get a phone call and so-and-so says, hey, you should meet so-and-so.

00:28:13 And that so-and-so is a huge A-lister.

00:28:15 Yeah.

00:28:15 Well, that person made that introduction because I may have made enough deposits over the years.

00:28:19 Yeah.

00:28:20 To where I never asked for anything.

00:28:21 I think it was Gary Player that said it, that somebody was like, you know,

00:28:25 "Guy, you're really a lucky putter."

00:28:26 And he's like, "The more I play, the luckier I get."

00:28:28 Yes.

00:28:29 The more you do, the luckier you get.

00:28:30 I mean, that luck comes from all of the deposits you make.

00:28:35 Yes.

00:28:35 And I think it's also important, and I want to go back in time, because some people think

00:28:41 it's based on upbringing, silver or golden spoon, who you know before you do anything.

00:28:48 Family has wealth and resources.

00:28:50 A lot of people grew up in broken homes.

00:28:52 Some people were incarcerated, and they think that they can't rebound from that.

00:28:56 And I think that there's a part of your story that is important to address because

00:29:00 if I'm listening to this and I don't know Roland Frazier, I think, "Well, yeah, sure,

00:29:04 Roland, you went to law school.

00:29:05 You're a lawyer.

00:29:06 You're smart.

00:29:06 You probably had a good upbringing.

00:29:08 You had wealth.

00:29:09 Yeah, it's really easy."

00:29:10 But you actually had a trouble past, and you did go to jail.

00:29:15 I did.

00:29:16 And so you had to rebuild yourself with that stigma.

00:29:20 And one of the times I actually asked you to be on one of my boards is how I learned

00:29:23 about this because you had to tell me, "Hey, Jeff, I'd love to, but I don't know if you're

00:29:27 okay with that."

00:29:28 And also it may be not good for you.

00:29:30 And it may not be good for me.

00:29:31 And you were protective of the fact that this was years ago when I asked, but that information

00:29:36 is so important.

00:29:36 So if you don't mind, share with us, A, how you rebounded from that, and B, when you first

00:29:43 came out of jail, what...

00:29:45 Well, let's start with this.

00:29:46 When you first came out of jail, what did you have?

00:29:48 I didn't have a lot.

00:29:53 I had basically... I had a house that I was able to keep, but I had lost quite a bit because

00:30:00 when all of that went down, my wife said she didn't think she needed a man in her life

00:30:08 anymore.

00:30:08 And so she left, and she thought that the ship was going to go down.

00:30:13 And I wasn't probably in the best place mentally either.

00:30:17 So I had my partners, I called my law firm, and they answered it without my name, even

00:30:26 though my name was in the thing.

00:30:28 And it's kind of interesting.

00:30:31 Everyone ran.

00:30:34 And not that I didn't deserve it, because I was definitely not in a good place.

00:30:41 And I was surprised that what happened happened.

00:30:45 And I think that it was a time that was really, really hard, a time that I thought about suicide.

00:30:52 I didn't think I wanted to be here.

00:30:53 I was like, I didn't want to face it going in, didn't want to face it going out.

00:30:58 But ultimately, it took me a while, a couple of years of basically being incredibly depressed

00:31:04 to get out of that and coming back from thinking, what am I going to do?

00:31:09 Because I had to... I resigned from the bar.

00:31:13 So that was, I defined my, literally people say, so what do you do?

00:31:16 I'm an attorney.

00:31:17 Well, I can't say that anymore.

00:31:18 I don't have that identity.

00:31:20 So--

00:31:21 Were you forced to resign?

00:31:23 No.

00:31:24 Well, I mean, if I hadn't, it would have--

00:31:25 They would have kicked you out.

00:31:26 I assume it would have happened, right?

00:31:28 I don't want to take that.

00:31:29 Yeah, fair.

00:31:30 You go out on your own terms.

00:31:31 Of course.

00:31:32 You can't fire me, I quit.

00:31:34 But I think that as far as like, I didn't have anything but a desire to go on once I got past

00:31:49 the desire not to go on.

00:31:51 And so then it took-- and it was kind of interesting too, because there were people

00:31:56 inside when I was there that were corporate consultants and things like that.

00:32:02 And they were like, I can't do anything anymore.

00:32:05 I can't make money.

00:32:06 I can't do anything.

00:32:07 And they're thinking they're going to work at Starbucks and Panera, where I watched some

00:32:11 of them work.

00:32:11 I ran into them after I got out.

00:32:14 And it was interesting.

00:32:16 But I ultimately was just kind of, I've got to figure out how do I get through this and

00:32:24 what am I going to do?

00:32:25 And I'm not going to be a good employee.

00:32:27 I had a couple of people that were like, do you want to come and have a job?

00:32:31 And I was like, that sounds terrible.

00:32:33 I don't-- I think I did that renting skates at Golden Skate World when I was 16, maybe.

00:32:38 So I was kind of determined I was going to do my-- make my own way again.

00:32:43 And then it was just kind of being lost at, I can't do the thing.

00:32:48 I could have gone to take the bar again and all that and try to get re-licensed.

00:32:52 But I didn't really want to do that.

00:32:55 I had kind of had my fill of it.

00:32:57 And so it was just, where can I find the thing that I can add value?

00:33:02 And I remember the place that I ultimately decided on, because I had always really liked

00:33:06 marketing.

00:33:07 The thing I liked about law wasn't practicing law.

00:33:09 The thing I liked about law was you come in and I get to sell you on having me be your

00:33:14 attorney.

00:33:14 I like that.

00:33:16 And so I liked marketing a lot and decided I was going to make a study of marketing and

00:33:22 signed up for all of the things, which is how I met Ryan.

00:33:24 I found Dice.

00:33:25 I found some little marketing letter that he had before Digital Marketer even existed.

00:33:30 And I was like, that guy seems smart.

00:33:31 And this SEO, this internet thing, seems like it might turn out to be something.

00:33:36 And so I'm going to get good at that.

00:33:37 And then I didn't really know what to do.

00:33:41 And I tried a whole bunch of things, kind of figuring out.

00:33:44 And ultimately, it was-- there were people that had lists of people that they had relationships

00:33:53 with, but they weren't connecting through them through live events.

00:33:57 And so I was like, I can put together a program to help them do live events, which is a part

00:34:04 of the value chain that they don't have right now.

00:34:06 And then I can go to an unlimited number of people that have those relationships that

00:34:12 aren't monetizing through that channel.

00:34:14 And so I would give them the whole program of, here's a whole bunch of emails you can

00:34:20 send out.

00:34:21 Here's how you get people to do it.

00:34:23 I'll take the risk on the venue, which was an interesting game to play, signing up for

00:34:30 that liability, and get them in.

00:34:32 And then you should have a mastermind.

00:34:35 And so I had a mastermind that any of those people in that world's audiences could join.

00:34:40 So there was one place that they could go.

00:34:43 And doing those events and selling those masterminds was kind of my comeback.

00:34:49 And then that each step along the way, that built relationships, which was kind of not

00:34:56 intentional, accidental, with a whole bunch of people that had relationships with audiences

00:35:00 that turned out were influencers, that turned out new people, that introduced me to other

00:35:04 people that then kind of things snowballed into where I've managed to get to now.

00:35:10 Well, so the day you came out to the day that you achieved that level of confidence to say,

00:35:18 hey, I can retake my future.

00:35:22 I can thrive.

00:35:23 How long was that period?

00:35:25 I got to tell you that the pre-going in and the out periods right around there were pretty

00:35:34 blurry for me.

00:35:34 Sure.

00:35:35 But I mean, I came out, I've got to make money.

00:35:41 The business that I had started years ago that was like-- so I had a direct marketing

00:35:48 business through direct mail that I had started maybe eight years prior to the whole jail

00:36:00 thing.

00:36:01 And when I got out, while I was in, they were telling me things have changed, competition

00:36:07 this, we're losing money.

00:36:09 And I was kind of puzzled by it because I was like, how could that be the case?

00:36:13 And so when I got out, I found out that the decisions that had been made were basically

00:36:22 to cut the two biggest expenses, which was postage and paper, which meant that no mail

00:36:32 was going out.

00:36:33 Right.

00:36:34 Direct mail needs those two things, I think.

00:36:36 So shockingly, there was not money coming in.

00:36:38 But here's how it happened because people hear that and they're like, oh, what idiots.

00:36:42 It's like, well, maybe, but in fairness to the people that were running it, the money

00:36:51 did keep coming for several months because there's a tail.

00:36:55 So they were living off the tail and not really associating that.

00:37:00 They were like, oh my gosh, look, we've saved on all these expenses, but-- and the money

00:37:04 keeps coming.

00:37:04 So we're making this crazy profit.

00:37:06 But that only lasts so long.

00:37:09 And I wasn't gone that long.

00:37:10 I was only five months.

00:37:12 So but during that five months was when those decisions were made.

00:37:15 And so it was trailing off.

00:37:16 So when I came back, it was a guy that I had known for years that was a software programmer

00:37:20 was like, hey, man, I love you.

00:37:22 Mean it.

00:37:23 But I can't work and not get paid.

00:37:25 Sure.

00:37:26 And so I had to loan the business.

00:37:28 I had to loan the business $7,000.

00:37:30 It was like $7,400 for a new campaign.

00:37:33 And I think that campaign generated like $150,000.

00:37:39 And that restaked the company.

00:37:41 And then--

00:37:42 It's a pretty good return.

00:37:43 It was pretty good.

00:37:43 Yeah.

00:37:44 I mean, when you're under pressure, you're like, OK, what is the thing that's going to

00:37:48 move the needle?

00:37:49 And so that really-- that brought that business back.

00:37:54 I got all the debts paid off that they had.

00:37:55 And then kind of once I got that set, went back into the other thing.

00:37:59 So to answer your question in the longest way possible, I think it was pretty quick.

00:38:06 Because my dealing with the loss of reputation and income and family and partners was all

00:38:16 before that.

00:38:17 And that period was about two and a half years.

00:38:21 And that was maybe a six-month, I don't get out of bed.

00:38:27 I mean, seriously, just I just kind of lost.

00:38:33 Kind of depression, lost, defeatism, or whatever you want to call it.

00:38:38 But truly just not knowing what to do because everything in your world is different than

00:38:44 you thought it was.

00:38:45 And your future is different than you thought it was.

00:38:47 Your identity is different than you thought it was.

00:38:49 But it's important to me not to identify as that person or that situation.

00:38:55 It's like, I am not somebody that went to jail in my mind.

00:39:00 I am someone who has that in my experience.

00:39:04 And I have all kinds of negative things in my experience.

00:39:06 But I had the benefit of years ago reading two stories.

00:39:10 And one was this terrible failure.

00:39:12 And one was this amazing success.

00:39:14 And it was basically highlighting the successful and fail points of Abraham Lincoln.

00:39:19 And it was like, you read the one, it's like, ran for this and lost that, lost that office,

00:39:25 went bankrupt, did this.

00:39:27 You know, it's like, oh, my God.

00:39:28 You know, and then the other one is, you know, did this, won this, won this, became a senator,

00:39:32 became the president.

00:39:33 You know, we all live a couple of lives.

00:39:37 And as you said earlier, people like to be with people that are positive because there

00:39:44 is a positive story.

00:39:46 I don't like to be around people that are negative.

00:39:47 And my wife will tell you I have a sunshine pump.

00:39:50 You know, it's like, you make positive out of everything.

00:39:52 And I read a thing on Apple News a couple of days ago that said that people that are

00:39:58 overly positive do damage.

00:40:01 And I think that it's, and I've had a hard time wrestling with that because my wife,

00:40:06 it tends more towards she is okay being sad.

00:40:12 She's okay talking about the negative things.

00:40:15 I don't like those things.

00:40:17 So I don't tend to want to talk about them.

00:40:21 I think that it is important to understand that there are things that are negative.

00:40:25 It is important to understand that there's pain and to experience that, but to dwell

00:40:28 on it is a mistake.

00:40:30 And so I don't want to spend time focusing on it much because I've got too many places

00:40:36 I want to go.

00:40:37 And so, so again, the very long answer to your question was, it was a process for me

00:40:45 of going through, do I want to be here?

00:40:48 I'm lost.

00:40:49 I'm a failure.

00:40:50 I, you know, I'm not the person I thought I was.

00:40:52 I'm ashamed of myself.

00:40:54 You know, how am I going to deal with that?

00:40:56 I don't want to be that person to, you know, finally figuring out how do I get past that?

00:41:01 I got past it by travel.

00:41:03 And I was sitting in a little church and I'm not a super religious person, but I was sitting

00:41:08 in a little church in Copenhagen around Christmas time.

00:41:12 And it was just this little thing about the size of this room with stained glass all around

00:41:16 the top and something happened, not like a visionary experience or anything, but just

00:41:23 like a realization, you know, I don't want to be this sad lost person.

00:41:29 All I have to do is go forward and I get to chart the course.

00:41:34 And so that was the decision I made.

00:41:36 And after that, it was very, very like instantaneous too, which was kind of funny.

00:41:42 But, but that then it was immediate going back into it from there.

00:41:47 So I think it was just getting my, getting my act together.

00:41:50 Well, I think that's very powerful because I'm sure you've heard me mention my five minute

00:41:54 pity party that I do where I set a timer in five minutes.

00:41:57 I actually embrace the feelings.

00:41:58 And I think it's important.

00:41:59 When I do that, it's normally smaller issues, obviously.

00:42:03 You did not read a document said the entire United States of America versus you?

00:42:09 I did not.

00:42:10 Because I read that and I was like, United States in law school, they had those.

00:42:13 Yeah, sure.

00:42:14 United States of America versus Jackson.

00:42:15 I was like, it sucks to be Jackson.

00:42:16 I'm like, you know what?

00:42:17 It sucks to be Jackson.

00:42:18 I don't know how I would feel in that circumstance.

00:42:22 And as part of the United States.

00:42:23 I'm surprised that you were mad at me.

00:42:26 I was a little mad at you, but I got over it pretty quick because you're a good dude.

00:42:30 But I think to your point, it's about moving forward.

00:42:33 And one of the things I always lean back on, and I'm going to use jail as one of these

00:42:37 is if Kim Kardashian can have a sex date and be now paid millions of dollars by some of

00:42:42 the most wholesome brands in the world, and they're willing to overlook what she did in

00:42:47 her past, and someone like you, who is such a monumental figure and impactful individual and

00:42:53 inspiring can overcome jail, like we as the rest of us who maybe aren't dealing with severity

00:42:58 issues that are as severe, we can overcome them too.

00:43:02 So long as we make the decision to move forward, start charting our own course and change the

00:43:07 behavior.

00:43:07 And I think taking immediate decisive action and stop being negative and understanding

00:43:12 that positivity and forward tomorrow's a new day.

00:43:15 Those are the foundational pieces.

00:43:16 And I think your history, and then one of the reasons I want to talk about it was because

00:43:20 I think your history is it's unique, but it also empowers and enables others to realize

00:43:25 that whatever is holding them back, whatever they think is something that is so insurmountable

00:43:30 that they will not be able to, I failed out of college.

00:43:33 I got divorced.

00:43:35 I failed at my first company.

00:43:36 My second company, my eighth company, I got fired from my great job.

00:43:39 I went bankrupt, whatever, whatever those issues are, they're not insurmountable.

00:43:44 No, they're not.

00:43:45 Your best days are tomorrow.

00:43:46 They are lessons.

00:43:47 And so for me, I am more humble than I was before.

00:43:52 I am more careful than I was before.

00:43:54 And I'm also significantly happier because my life now is much better than my life was

00:44:04 before, and you never know what is behind that next door.

00:44:08 And it's usually something better, right?

00:44:12 I mean, if you're looking for the possibility of something better, then there's a reason

00:44:19 I believe that things happen, and it's all going to help inform who we are later.

00:44:25 But there is always a better story for you to live on the other side of whatever bad

00:44:31 thing you're going through.

00:44:32 My wife is a good example, too.

00:44:34 She had stage four thyroid cancer.

00:44:36 They told her she had 90 days to live.

00:44:37 She had to write a letter to a doctor as to why she should be picked among the pool of

00:44:43 people that were trying to get attention from him.

00:44:47 He was one of the leading doctors in that area, which was not just, I have to beg for

00:44:52 my life, but was like, I'm literally competing against other people, and if I get picked,

00:44:56 other people are not.

00:44:58 That's a pretty difficult spot.

00:45:00 And I didn't really process this, but because she had that experience with cancer, people

00:45:08 will come to her and ask about it.

00:45:10 And she's like, if you give up and cry and say, poor me, you're going to die.

00:45:17 You're literally going to die.

00:45:18 Yeah.

00:45:19 As an entrepreneur, I know how meaningful it is to invest in the people and causes that

00:45:24 are close to me.

00:45:25 And on GoFundMe, it's easy, safe, and powerful to do just that, whether you're supporting

00:45:30 a family member, friend, local business, or charity.

00:45:34 And whenever you make a donation, you're protected by the GoFundMe giving guarantee.

00:45:39 Visit GoFundMe.com today to help make a positive difference in your community.

00:45:45 But if you say, I'm going to fight, you have a chance.

00:45:49 You don't have a guarantee, but none of us does.

00:45:51 Right.

00:45:51 But it was an interesting first date because on our first date, she said, I have cancer.

00:45:58 I don't know if I'm going to live.

00:45:59 And I said, that's OK.

00:46:00 I'm going to probably go to jail.

00:46:01 And so I was like, yeah, we should hang out.

00:46:03 [LAUGHTER]

00:46:05 Opposites do attract.

00:46:06 But you know, we're all in this together.

00:46:09 And I think that's a really important thing.

00:46:10 [LAUGHTER]

00:46:12 Opposites do attract.

00:46:13 But you know, our lives for both of us are so much better than they were before because

00:46:19 we found our person and we're super, super happy.

00:46:24 So I think that closing door is always going to have at least one possible good positive door.

00:46:30 I couldn't agree more.

00:46:32 And I think it's a good segue into really what you're focusing on now, which I think

00:46:36 enables so many more people to take control of their financial freedom and get involved

00:46:40 in great companies and actually start to live the best version of themselves.

00:46:45 One of them-- well, there's two of them.

00:46:47 And I'm going to let you kind of go into a little bit of detail for those listening.

00:46:50 But the first one is consulting for equity.

00:46:53 And I think that this is such an incredible concept.

00:46:56 It's one that I've learned from you.

00:46:57 I deploy it.

00:46:58 I use it.

00:46:59 So I've gained a lot of equity in companies by using my experience and what I've learned

00:47:05 over the years and help other companies by doing it.

00:47:07 But the second one is to buy and basically acquire other companies for little or no money down.

00:47:14 I used to say out of pocket, and there is a distinction.

00:47:16 - Yeah, it's the opposite.

00:47:17 It's not little or no money down, but little or no money out of pocket.

00:47:20 - Sorry, I butchered it.

00:47:21 - That's okay.

00:47:21 - But that's okay.

00:47:22 - No problem.

00:47:22 - That's what we're here for.

00:47:23 - It's okay.

00:47:23 - Keep teaching me.

00:47:24 But for those listening, explain what those two concepts are, and then we can dive into it.

00:47:30 - Yeah, so the consulting for equity concept is that we all have knowledge, skills, experience,

00:47:37 and connections that can be valuable to other people.

00:47:40 And so there is an opportunity to turn that into a currency that is a form of capital.

00:47:47 And capital is what most businesses need.

00:47:50 But capital is not just money.

00:47:53 Capital is basically anything of value, any resource that can help the business.

00:47:56 So thinking about if I am interested in having--

00:48:03 I'm trying to think of the order to talk in.

00:48:06 So let me start with wealth, right?

00:48:08 I think that most of the world is focused on income and not wealth.

00:48:16 And it's a tragic mistake because if you don't have wealth, you're not building assets.

00:48:23 You will always be a slave to labor, right?

00:48:26 And if you only focus on wealth, then you might starve in the meantime.

00:48:31 I know lots of people that have gone bankrupt that had tremendous wealth but no income.

00:48:37 And so to me, you have to be thinking about both of those things.

00:48:41 So then I think about, well, what is the fastest path to that?

00:48:46 It's how can I get-- how can I take resources that I've got, whether I have money or not?

00:48:54 I do have experience, knowledge, skills, and connections.

00:48:57 And if I could turn that into a form of capital that would allow me

00:49:01 to own an interest in several businesses, I can effectively have my own

00:49:05 portfolio of businesses through a private equity fund that is me.

00:49:09 And I'm making the investments, but I'm unconstrained by money.

00:49:15 I don't need to go raise a bunch of money.

00:49:18 I don't need to have a bunch of money.

00:49:19 I don't need to have a bunch of credit.

00:49:20 I don't need to have anything, right?

00:49:22 I could literally come out of, I don't know, jail and be able to acquire interest in businesses,

00:49:26 right?

00:49:26 And everyone can do that because everyone has some thing that is a value, or they can go

00:49:36 and arbitrage OPG, right?

00:49:38 People talk about other people's money.

00:49:39 There's other people's genius.

00:49:41 And most people sell their genius for pennies on the dollar.

00:49:43 So I go to consulting.

00:49:45 Consulting is an interesting world.

00:49:47 And I never wanted to be a consultant because I never wanted to trade dollars for hours,

00:49:51 right?

00:49:51 There's a scale problem.

00:49:53 There's a dependency problem.

00:49:54 You're a dancing bear.

00:49:55 As long as you dance, people throw money.

00:49:56 When you stop, it stops.

00:49:58 So I didn't want to be part of that.

00:50:00 But I also realized that most of these consultants are building other people's brands.

00:50:05 And they're building those brands and helping those people create wealth.

00:50:08 And they're doing it for a one-time payment of some amount of consulting fee, right?

00:50:15 And whether that's a five-year consult or a two-day consult, it's still a finite amount

00:50:21 of time.

00:50:21 And there is no brand value, no equity, no wealth that is built from it in the thing

00:50:26 that they're adding value to.

00:50:27 But they're adding value to it.

00:50:29 So if you kind of change your philosophy and say, "I'm not going to be available to be

00:50:35 bought for pennies on the dollar for a fee."

00:50:38 And you're seeing this a lot right now in entertainment because people you mentioned,

00:50:42 Kim Kardashian, Ryan Reynolds, Kim Kardashian, George Clooney, The Rock, they're taking ownership

00:50:49 in the brands, Kylie Jenner, that they have as opposed to just being a paid spokesperson,

00:50:54 right?

00:50:55 They're taking ownership in it.

00:50:56 That's really smart because now if they're not pretty anymore, if they get canceled or

00:51:01 whatever thing might happen in the world, they can't act, they get too old, they age

00:51:06 out, all the terrible things that happen to actors, they'll have wealth because they'll

00:51:11 have built assets.

00:51:12 And so to me, that's available to everyone.

00:51:15 Everybody can do that because we all have something that is a value or access to something

00:51:21 that's a value, which leads to the ability to pick something that you like and live in

00:51:26 your area of joy and genius, right?

00:51:28 I can do the things that I like and I can go and I don't even have to, you are a unicorn

00:51:34 because you can start businesses that are successful multiple times.

00:51:37 Most people can't, right?

00:51:39 I don't want to take the risk of that.

00:51:42 So I'm taking the easy way out by saying, "Hey, Jeff, you started a great business.

00:51:47 I see that it survived the startup period and now you're successful.

00:51:52 Let me bring value in some form of something to you," which kind of goes back to our earlier

00:51:58 conversation.

00:51:58 I have to ask you about that and have conversations to even know what that is.

00:52:02 But then once I know what it is, I'm searching, how can I bring you value?

00:52:06 And if I can bring you value, you're probably going to be willing if it's enough value to

00:52:10 say, "Hey, I'd like to have you be part of my company."

00:52:15 And so that's really what consulting for equity is about.

00:52:18 And do you want me to talk about the other thing or do you want to talk about consulting

00:52:21 for equity first and then I can talk about the other?

00:52:22 Let's do consulting for equity first.

00:52:23 So, because I think it is, number one, it's something that I've deployed.

00:52:27 I used to get hit up a bunch.

00:52:29 Can you do some consulting?

00:52:31 And I don't have a coaching program or a consulting program, really.

00:52:34 I've done a few one-offs.

00:52:35 I find that if I can't add immense value, I just don't feel good about it.

00:52:39 Yeah, of course.

00:52:40 And because it's not my main thing, my main thing is my companies.

00:52:43 I want to make sure that, to your point, I don't want to open everything to this company

00:52:49 that's paying me thousands of dollars a month because, number one, I don't know them that

00:52:53 well.

00:52:54 And number two, I only get to go to my network so many times and say, "Hey, would you?"

00:52:58 So, I don't do it.

00:52:59 Right.

00:53:00 And considering your opportunity cost of the time that you invest in your own companies

00:53:05 can add tremendous value to those companies.

00:53:08 So, you have to be careful where you put your effort, right?

00:53:12 Yeah.

00:53:13 And so, I think it was maybe four or five years ago, we were sitting in Rancho Santa

00:53:16 Fe having some lunch at Rancho Valencia.

00:53:19 And you brought this concept up to me and told me, because I was asking, I was picking

00:53:25 Roland's brain about the fact that I get hit up for consulting on startups and entrepreneurship.

00:53:28 And I always say no, but am I wrong to say no?

00:53:31 Because I'm leaving a lot of money on the table and I see a lot of friends that are

00:53:34 making a killing doing it.

00:53:35 And you brought this up to me.

00:53:37 And so, I started to think about it more in that context.

00:53:39 And so, I started doing it.

00:53:41 And now I own equity in some companies and I add value and I open up my commodo of relationships.

00:53:46 Right.

00:53:46 Because I'm helping my own company.

00:53:48 Right.

00:53:48 It's no longer am I helping someone else's company.

00:53:51 Right.

00:53:51 I'm helping my own.

00:53:52 Right.

00:53:52 So, I'm building that wealth.

00:53:54 Yeah.

00:53:54 And along the way, because you're getting profits from the company, you're also getting

00:53:59 income.

00:54:00 So, you get to have both, which is kind of cool.

00:54:02 It is kind of cool.

00:54:02 And it's something that if you're not sure how to get involved and maybe you aren't great

00:54:06 at startups and maybe you can't start the company, which I understand that is my skill,

00:54:11 but it's not everyone's skill.

00:54:12 And there gets to a point where I'm no longer really valuable to an organization once we

00:54:16 get to a certain size.

00:54:16 Right.

00:54:17 And other people are amazing.

00:54:18 Right.

00:54:18 That's where you can add that value.

00:54:20 Right.

00:54:21 Sweat equity is great.

00:54:22 I mean, Brian Augustine, our chief development officer, when I had one store, he hit me up

00:54:27 and said, "Don't pay me," because I had no money to pay him because I was building all

00:54:30 these stores and I wasn't ready for him.

00:54:32 But he wanted to get involved.

00:54:34 And he said, "Let me come in and instead of paying me, take my salary and just give me

00:54:38 equity."

00:54:38 Right.

00:54:39 And today, he's one of our top executives.

00:54:41 He owns a material stake in the company.

00:54:43 If you go back and look at what the value of that equity is and what our company's worth,

00:54:48 he got paid a ton year one.

00:54:49 Right.

00:54:50 And that's another way to do it if you don't even have the resources is sweat equity is

00:54:55 equity.

00:54:56 And he opened a door that might not have otherwise been open to him.

00:54:59 Right.

00:54:59 If you're looking at all the different people that you could put in whatever position that

00:55:02 he came in at, it's a different calculus than if he's like, "I'll come for free startup

00:55:08 that needs money."

00:55:09 Yep.

00:55:10 That's like, "Well, you go to the top of the list if you've got any kind of qualifications."

00:55:14 Right.

00:55:14 Yeah.

00:55:14 You're one of one.

00:55:15 Right.

00:55:15 Yeah.

00:55:16 There's not a lot of resumes there.

00:55:17 Most people need to get paid.

00:55:18 Exactly.

00:55:19 And so that's what I loved about that.

00:55:21 And now I do want to touch the second one.

00:55:22 Yep.

00:55:23 Because I think this one is equally, if not more, fascinating because a lot of people

00:55:27 might not feel confident in their own skills or their own ability to add value to an

00:55:32 organization that's somewhere further.

00:55:33 So explain it to us and then we can talk about it.

00:55:35 It's funny too, because to me, I would think that the consulting for equity would be the

00:55:42 easier of the two for people to understand.

00:55:44 But people have such doubts about the value that they bring that it is the harder of the

00:55:51 two for them to get.

00:55:52 I believe it is the easier of the two to do.

00:55:55 It is.

00:55:56 But even, I think we all struggle with it because what we take, what we do really well,

00:56:01 all of our superpowers come easy to us.

00:56:04 So we take for granted that they don't come easy to everyone else.

00:56:07 Yeah, agree.

00:56:07 And you've cleared this in my own perspective a ton of times.

00:56:10 Yeah.

00:56:11 I mean, you've kind of been my consigliere on that because even I get insecure about

00:56:16 some of my skills and you're like, "Jeff, what you do, no one else can do.

00:56:19 Monetize it."

00:56:20 Right.

00:56:21 Right.

00:56:22 But it comes easy to me.

00:56:23 So I feel in my head it's easy for everybody.

00:56:24 Yeah.

00:56:25 Yeah.

00:56:25 It's the hard stuff for me that I feel is hard for everyone else.

00:56:27 Yes.

00:56:28 Which is funny, right?

00:56:28 Because for them, for the people that know, it's not hard.

00:56:31 So the other one is basically acquiring companies for little or no money out of pocket.

00:56:37 So acquisitions, I'm a huge believer in.

00:56:40 It's, if you look at the failure rate of companies in the first few years versus the failure rate

00:56:46 of companies that have been around for five or so years, it's significantly less risk to be

00:56:52 involved in a company that's been around for several years.

00:56:54 So chances are, unless you are inventing something brand new, that there is a company that already

00:57:02 does whatever thing is that you want to do, whatever business plan you're planning on

00:57:07 executing, right?

00:57:08 They might not do it well.

00:57:10 It might be able to be wildly innovated, but there's already an infrastructure of sales,

00:57:15 profits, employees, management, all of that stuff already exists.

00:57:21 And so to tap into that, to me, you're starting with a momentum and momentum in business to me

00:57:27 is critically important.

00:57:29 You're starting with a momentum that you don't have in a startup.

00:57:32 You're starting with a certainty of at least a runway, if you just don't mess things up,

00:57:38 that you can continue to make the profit that's already been made.

00:57:40 So can you get into that business that already is profitable, that already exists versus

00:57:47 starting one from scratch and have a better chance of success?

00:57:51 I think it's yes.

00:57:51 And because literally it's already successful in this one, we don't know.

00:57:55 It's a different set of skills because it's much more innovate, manage, optimize than

00:58:04 it is create, bootstrap, struggle, right?

00:58:08 Problem solve.

00:58:09 I mean, you're always problem solving, but it's definitely a different set of problems.

00:58:13 So, and it's, there's not the terrifying, where am I going to get money?

00:58:18 Right?

00:58:19 So if you could do that without having to have the credit or money that it typically

00:58:26 requires to acquire a business, then I think that's a pretty cool path for a lot of people.

00:58:32 And it's, if you think about it, like, why do people like franchises?

00:58:36 They like franchises because it's a business plan.

00:58:38 Everything's already done.

00:58:39 The branding's done.

00:58:40 You've got a track record of success from all the other franchises that have gone before.

00:58:44 You've got a franchisor who's going to take you under their wing and help you.

00:58:48 It's a fantastic business model.

00:58:49 It's a business in a box.

00:58:50 Yeah.

00:58:51 Love the franchise model.

00:58:52 So this is a, you know, a form of that in that you're coming in with all of that support

00:58:57 to start out.

00:58:58 And so then it's like, okay, well, here's the other cool thing.

00:59:02 I started realizing that a lot of things that I was doing to acquire real estate with little

00:59:07 or no money out of pocket would apply to business, but so many more strategies apply to business

00:59:14 than applied to real estate.

00:59:15 There's so many more levers to pull.

00:59:17 And the number of financing sources that are available from angels and SBA and banks for

00:59:23 startup businesses is a tiny fraction of the resources that are available to fund the acquisition

00:59:32 of an existing business.

00:59:34 And so I think the last time I counted, I was like at 225 different strategies to stack

00:59:40 on top of each other to be able to acquire a business where I can only think of eight

00:59:44 or nine for a startup.

00:59:46 And I think 225 is a little more than eight or nine.

00:59:48 I mean, I'm no mathematician.

00:59:50 I don't know, you know, it's math is hard.

00:59:52 Right.

00:59:53 But yeah.

00:59:54 So what's cool is that to me right now, we're in this really great time opportunity wise,

01:00:02 where there are millions and millions of baby boomers that own, I think it was 12 million

01:00:09 businesses that have a value of about $10 trillion that are going to be transitioning

01:00:14 over the next decade or two.

01:00:16 And most of the kids of those boomers that have those businesses want to be Instagram

01:00:26 stars and internet personalities and YouTube stars, which there's nothing wrong with, but

01:00:30 they're just not interested in your parking lot business and your laundromat and your,

01:00:34 you know, digital marketing agency.

01:00:35 They're just not.

01:00:36 It's boring and sounds old, yet those are profitable businesses.

01:00:41 So then that creates a glut of businesses that are for sale, listed for sale, that can't

01:00:48 be sold.

01:00:49 And so even like most of them don't get listed, but even the ones that get listed, 80% of

01:00:55 those to 90%, depending on whose data you look at, never sell.

01:00:59 That means that 80 to 90% of the people that actually want to sell, go out and hire somebody

01:01:05 to help them and go through a complete marketing campaign to try to find a buyer, cannot sell.

01:01:11 Which is another reason that about 600,000 businesses a year just close their doors,

01:01:15 right?

01:01:16 I can't tell you how many times people I talk to have gone to somebody who had a business

01:01:21 that they wanted to take over and they're like, "Oh, sweetheart, I'm sorry.

01:01:24 You know, we tried."

01:01:25 It's usually, you know, mom and pops, but they're big mom and pops.

01:01:30 We really tried.

01:01:31 And this was in particular a business that was making $7 million a year in sales and

01:01:35 about $2.5 million in profit.

01:01:37 And they're like, "We just closed it down."

01:01:40 Now, that's crazy.

01:01:41 That is crazy, but they didn't know what to do.

01:01:45 They didn't want to do it anymore.

01:01:48 Employees couldn't take it over, right?

01:01:50 I mean, it's true.

01:01:50 Anything for it.

01:01:51 They didn't need the money.

01:01:53 It's fascinating because actually the very first Everbull, the way I found the location,

01:01:58 I was visiting a client in Poway and I went into a Smoothie King for a smoothie and the

01:02:02 guy who owned it was literally bringing things from the walls to his van.

01:02:06 And I said, "Is something going on?"

01:02:08 He said, "I'm closing my doors on Friday.

01:02:10 This is my last week in business."

01:02:11 And I go, "Did you sell?"

01:02:12 And he goes, "No, I asked for too much money.

01:02:14 I couldn't sell, but it kept me afloat for 20 years.

01:02:17 And I'm just closing the doors."

01:02:19 - Right.

01:02:19 - I called the landlord and picked that as my location because I figured if a Smoothie

01:02:22 King was successful, my health conscious food, acai bowls was close enough.

01:02:27 - Right.

01:02:27 - I could be successful.

01:02:28 - Right.

01:02:29 - To your point, he failed to sell his successful Smoothie King franchise.

01:02:33 - Yeah.

01:02:33 They kept him for 20 years.

01:02:35 - 20 years.

01:02:35 - Right.

01:02:36 And I built my first ever bowl, which is the birth of all these.

01:02:38 And I was successful in the same location, which means it's a profitable location.

01:02:42 - Right.

01:02:42 - And I'm now thinking about why he wasn't able to sell it.

01:02:45 - And that happens again and again and again and again.

01:02:48 So there's this tremendous opportunity.

01:02:50 And to me, you're actually doing good because these people want to sell their businesses,

01:02:55 but there's this tremendously inefficient market out there of business brokers that are

01:03:02 supposed to help these people sell their businesses, but most of them are kind of lazy and

01:03:06 don't have any creativity.

01:03:08 And before you even get to talk to them, they're like, send me a proof of funds that you have

01:03:12 the $3 million to buy this business in your bank account.

01:03:15 And it's like, you know that people in the investment banking world don't even do that.

01:03:18 - Right.

01:03:18 That's not how that works.

01:03:20 But OK.

01:03:20 So they really stand in the way of it.

01:03:23 And so you've got all these people that want to sell that need to sell, who will not be able to

01:03:28 realize the value of their businesses, who's going to, they're going to let their employees go.

01:03:31 They're going to let the customers down.

01:03:33 They're going to end the legacy that they built for 20 years, and then it's just going to go

01:03:38 poof and it's gone.

01:03:39 So we get to help those guys have continuity for the employees, for the sales, for the customers,

01:03:44 for whatever they've built up.

01:03:46 And we get to come into a business that's already proven that's been profitable for 20 years.

01:03:50 - Yeah.

01:03:50 - And we don't have to put any money up because they're motivated, because they've already tried.

01:03:56 Right?

01:03:56 Now, if you can find the smoothie king guy, as he's carrying the stuff to the door,

01:04:00 that's the ultimate moment to find them because a lot of times the reason the businesses don't

01:04:05 sell is that the valuations don't make any sense.

01:04:07 - Correct.

01:04:08 - You're like, well, by gosh, it's, you know, it's worth that.

01:04:10 It's my baby.

01:04:10 So it's important to have pipeline and to build relationships with people so that you are top

01:04:18 of mind when they get to the, I'm going to take the stuff off the wall and close it down,

01:04:23 that you're there to be able to help them.

01:04:25 Right?

01:04:25 But that's not that hard to do.

01:04:27 Those people are identifiable in lots of different ways.

01:04:30 So that's like those two things to me, my portfolio of companies, I can't spend cash.

01:04:37 It's a great and frustrating problem to have, but I can, I can't spend cash to buy businesses

01:04:44 because I find too many of them that I can either have consulting for equity, or I can have.

01:04:50 - There's no money out of pocket.

01:04:51 - I have businesses that pay me hundreds of thousands of dollars a month that were

01:04:55 consulting for equity deals.

01:04:56 Right?

01:04:57 But if you can bring the value, that's the other thing too, is like, as you get, you get started

01:05:01 small, you can get started and understand that you can make money off of a Facebook

01:05:05 group or a podcast.

01:05:06 We just sold a podcast for high six figures that blew me away that we could get that.

01:05:14 But we created that from nothing.

01:05:18 Right?

01:05:18 You can go in and acquire those podcasts from people like you or me that might maybe did

01:05:23 a hundred episodes and got busy and then was like, man, this is a lot of work.

01:05:26 - Sure.

01:05:27 - But it has value to people.

01:05:29 - Well, it's the, it's the modern way of buying seasoned corporations.

01:05:33 - It is.

01:05:33 Yes.

01:05:34 - Buying email lists.

01:05:36 - Yep.

01:05:37 - So I know that we could spend hours and you teach this, and this is an incredible

01:05:44 thing that everyone should learn.

01:05:45 What is just one high level way, if I identified the smoothie king guy, I know there's 225

01:05:53 of them, I'm not asking for all 225, but just a simple one that is digestible so people

01:05:57 can walk away going, okay, I don't know 225 ways, but I understand one.

01:06:02 - Sure.

01:06:03 The, the easiest would be the, like, I call it a deal stack because they're like Legos.

01:06:09 So you basically, you have what somebody wants for a business, your desire to pay zero.

01:06:13 And then how do I stack up as many strategies as I need to, to get, to fill the gap?

01:06:18 So the, the way that I generally start is I look for 80% seller financing and 20% as

01:06:25 an earn out.

01:06:25 So I'm going to ask the seller who ideally is motivated, right?

01:06:29 Because there are people you'll approach and be like, well, I never thought about selling,

01:06:32 but if somebody pays me a stupid amount of money, I'll sell.

01:06:34 Well, that's not, that's not your person, right?

01:06:36 Your person is somebody that's retiring, getting divorced, tired of a partner, has health

01:06:42 issues, somebody died and the kids took it over.

01:06:44 They're relocating, you know, they're, they've got shiny object syndrome, which is something

01:06:49 that all of us entrepreneurs do.

01:06:50 They found that there's some better use of their time or focus.

01:06:55 Think about all the businesses that you have that you've started.

01:06:58 There's generally a couple that are super profitable that have a lot of potential.

01:07:02 You'll let the other profitable ones go and not think twice about it because the opportunity

01:07:07 cost of doing all of them is too much.

01:07:10 So if you can find those people, then you have a motivated seller.

01:07:14 Motivated sellers are typically open to kind of anything because they're pretty much not

01:07:19 going to do anything with it.

01:07:20 Otherwise, anyway, it's found money for them.

01:07:22 So once you do that, then offering them the ability to carry the note or basically do

01:07:29 seller financing, it's like, hey, rather than me going to a bank, why don't we figure out

01:07:34 what you want for this?

01:07:35 And if it's reasonable, then I won't argue with you about the price as long as you're

01:07:40 willing to give me terms.

01:07:42 And if that's the case, like, you know, 10 years at three or 4% interest only with a

01:07:49 balloon, that's not a bad place to start.

01:07:52 Sure.

01:07:53 And earn out is basically saying, hey, for some part of the business, I'm not sure that

01:07:59 it's transferable, like that I'll be able to do what you did and it might take me some

01:08:03 time to learn as well.

01:08:05 So for a percentage of the business, typically 10 to 40%, let's say that as long as the business

01:08:12 hits certain metrics over time or certain employees stay or certain profitability has

01:08:16 remained or certain gross sales, then I will give you 10% per year for of the total purchase

01:08:24 price you're asking.

01:08:24 So let's say it was a million dollars.

01:08:26 Then let's do 800,000 seller financing or maybe 600,000 seller financing, 60%, and 40%

01:08:34 will do as an earn out.

01:08:36 And every year for the next four years, I'll pay you 100,000 as long as the business hits

01:08:41 these key metrics.

01:08:42 Right?

01:08:43 Which is great because not only does it tie them to the company to ensure that it stays

01:08:47 successful like it's been, it also protects you in case they had some special secret sauce

01:08:52 that you just don't have.

01:08:53 Yeah.

01:08:53 Or they did something that, you know, they're hiding something, right?

01:08:57 But it's different in every business.

01:08:59 I've gone into businesses where there were large accounts receivable and we were able

01:09:03 to go to a factor and get a loan against the accounts receivable to get the seller the

01:09:07 down payment that they wanted.

01:09:09 We've had suppliers that wrote a check for $2 million just to ensure that the supply,

01:09:17 that they would continue to be the supplier.

01:09:19 We've had, I've gone into companies and found credit card reserves that the owners forgot

01:09:25 about of a couple million dollars that we were able to use to fund the business.

01:09:29 I mean, businesses that have credit lines already that are not drawn on that we can

01:09:33 just have the seller draw on to pay for the business.

01:09:38 Then we just assume the loan in the business.

01:09:40 I mean, there's like, there's just countless ways to do it.

01:09:44 Well, and Roland, you're pretty much a savant at thinking of these wicked smart ways, no

01:09:50 pun intended, but kind of, to do this.

01:09:52 And this is one of those areas that if you are listening to this and you know Roland

01:09:56 or you're just learning about Roland, you would do yourself wonders to invest in some

01:10:02 time with Roland to learn these strategies because these are evergreen.

01:10:07 These are the strategies that I'm even, I even use.

01:10:10 I'm learning.

01:10:11 I always want to learn.

01:10:12 When we go to lunch, I'm always picking Roland's brain.

01:10:14 And it's those things that can pay dividends for years and years and years to come.

01:10:20 If someone's listening and they say, you know what, this is fascinating.

01:10:24 I have to learn some of these.

01:10:25 I have to better understand how to start viewing the world because you're not going to find

01:10:29 them tomorrow if you haven't been looking, but you'll start moving through the world

01:10:32 with this knowledge, this understanding, this curiosity, and opportunities will just start

01:10:37 popping up.

01:10:38 And if you don't realize how to take advantage of them, you don't get to be lucky.

01:10:42 Yep, that's true.

01:10:43 How would they best start to learn with you?

01:10:45 What is their paid access with you for this?

01:10:47 Well, interestingly enough, I have an unpaid access because I do these challenges across

01:10:52 both of these things almost every month.

01:10:55 And so one of them is the acquiring businesses with little or no money out of pocket is that

01:11:00 get epic challenge.com and it's free.

01:11:03 It's a five day challenge where we go through and show how to identify businesses to acquire

01:11:07 for no money out of pocket.

01:11:08 Talk about several of the ways that you do it.

01:11:10 And the other one is called paid for life challenge.

01:11:14 And that is the consulting for equity one.

01:11:16 It's also free.

01:11:17 It's a three day challenge and we do the same thing.

01:11:19 I think that like to me, giving the value of showing people how to do that.

01:11:24 And we have lots of people that go through the challenge and then buy lots of companies.

01:11:28 And I never even know about it, right?

01:11:30 Until they message me.

01:11:31 And that's one reason to read your DMs is it's very uplifting.

01:11:35 You know, all these people that tell you how this has changed their life.

01:11:38 But both of those are free.

01:11:41 And then if people decide that they'd like to go deeper, they can go deeper.

01:11:45 But I like the idea of giving a complete solution so that people can actually get value from it

01:11:50 instead of an incomplete one, which is kind of what they teach you in the info world.

01:11:53 And so both of those are actually free channels of access.

01:11:57 And when he says that, I just want to again clarify, having known Roland as long as I have,

01:12:02 there is so much value in that.

01:12:04 I didn't even know that you were going to mention the free models, but you do give so

01:12:09 much value.

01:12:10 Just take advantage of those.

01:12:11 They cost you nothing.

01:12:12 Send me a message after you do it and just let me know that you did it because it'll

01:12:16 make me feel good to know that you started to take that immediate decisive action to

01:12:20 become successful.

01:12:21 And these are great, great methods.

01:12:23 If you don't know what company to start, go acquire one or go consult for equity.

01:12:28 Roland, we could keep going for hours.

01:12:30 I'm getting yelled at by the control booth because we've gone for too long.

01:12:33 But thank you so much for coming on the show.

01:12:35 Yeah, thanks for having me.

01:12:36 It's always great to see you.

01:12:37 Yes.

01:12:38 And we're going to do another one.

01:12:39 I think it'd be fun to even do an episode where we do a challenge together and I actually

01:12:43 bring up some ideas or some businesses that I'm looking at.

01:12:46 I like it.

01:12:47 And we go through them together.

01:12:49 Let's do it.

01:12:49 Thank you so much, Roland.

01:12:51 This was fun.

01:12:51 Thanks.

01:12:52 Hey, everyone.

01:12:55 First, I want to thank all of you for tuning in.

01:12:57 And if you guys haven't heard about my new book, Relationship Bank Account, click the

01:13:01 link in the show notes or search the title on Amazon.

01:13:04 This book is packed with all my secrets to success in both relationships and life.

01:13:09 Make sure to pick up a copy.

01:13:10 And if the book helps you on your journey, let us know by leaving a review.

01:13:14 I appreciate all of you and can't wait to see you on the next one.

01:13:18 [MUSIC PLAYING]

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