Meena Karnik, the well-known Marathi film critic, writer and editor, unexpectedly fell in love with #DevAnand. So much so that she watched 80 films of the enduring romantic icon of Hindi cinema in a single year, a feat the star himself never indulged in in perhaps his entire career.
The result of Dev Anand-binging is her book in Marathi 'Pyar Ka Raag Suno'. She has co-authored it along with Dwarkanath Sanzgiri and Hemant Karnik.
The book traces Hindi cinema's romantic journey through its enduring emblems, from Dev Anand to #ShahRukhKhan via #ShammiKapoor, #RajeshKhanna and #RishiKapoor. Meena spoke to Mayank Chhaya Reports from Mumbai.
The result of Dev Anand-binging is her book in Marathi 'Pyar Ka Raag Suno'. She has co-authored it along with Dwarkanath Sanzgiri and Hemant Karnik.
The book traces Hindi cinema's romantic journey through its enduring emblems, from Dev Anand to #ShahRukhKhan via #ShammiKapoor, #RajeshKhanna and #RishiKapoor. Meena spoke to Mayank Chhaya Reports from Mumbai.
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00:00 Meena Karnik, the well-known Marathi film critic, writer and editor, unexpectedly fell
00:22 in love with Dev Anand.
00:25 So much so that she watched 80 films of the enduring romantic icon of Hindu cinema in
00:31 a single year, a feat the star himself never indulged in.
00:37 The result of that Dev Anand binging is her book in Marathi, Pyaar Ka Raak Suno.
00:44 She has co-authored it along with Dwarka Naath Sanskiri and Hemant Karnik.
00:50 The book traces Hindu cinema's romantic journey through its enduring emblems from Dev Anand
00:56 to Shah Rukh Khan via Sharmi Kapoor, Rajesh Khanna and Rishi Kapoor.
01:03 Meena spoke to Mayank Shah reports from Mumbai.
01:06 Welcome to Mayank Shah reports.
01:07 Meena, it's a great pleasure to see you.
01:11 Thank you so much, Mayank.
01:12 Thank you very, very much.
01:14 Congratulations on your upcoming book, Pyaar Ka Raak Suno.
01:20 I'm intrigued by, of course, the journey that you're going to talk about.
01:27 From what I understand, the journey is sort of a zigzag from Dev Anand to Sharmi Kapoor
01:32 to Rajesh Khanna to Rishi Kapoor and finally to Shah Rukh Khan.
01:37 Tell me a bit about your film.
01:39 Yeah, I'll tell you what.
01:42 It was in the...
01:43 I of course liked Dev Anand, but I was not a great fan of Dev Anand fan.
01:52 But something changed in January 2022 when I was just browsing on YouTube and Tere Ghar
02:00 Ke Samne came in front of my screen, came on the screen.
02:06 And I do watch films a lot.
02:09 I watch world cinema.
02:10 I write on it.
02:11 So they are all very serious films and then you... it's serious writing also.
02:17 So I thought, chalo aaj kuch light dekhte hai.
02:21 And I started watching it and something changed.
02:23 I said, what an amazing...
02:25 I had watched it before.
02:26 It's not that I had not watched Tere Ghar Ke Samne, naturally.
02:29 But I don't know what happened that day, but it was a wonderful experience.
02:33 I felt so nice.
02:34 Maybe it's a mental state or whatever.
02:38 But at that moment I said, oh my God, what charm this man has, amazing.
02:43 And I fell in love with him.
02:45 So I started watching his films on YouTube, on some OTT platforms and everything.
02:54 And it stuck in my head like Dev Anand was not going anywhere.
03:01 So I said, I was just, I felt very nice watching his films.
03:05 And my husband said, if you're watching his films and if you say you're in love with him,
03:08 do something about it.
03:09 I said, what do I do about him?
03:11 What do I do about this?
03:13 I'm happy watching his films.
03:14 That's all.
03:15 He said, no, that's not enough.
03:17 You need to do something about it.
03:18 Write a book.
03:20 So I said, there's been so much written on Dev Anand.
03:23 What am I going to write?
03:24 Different, like what is it that would be different?
03:28 And it just, it was there at the back of my mind when I was talking to my sister-in-law
03:38 and we were just talking like normal.
03:41 I said, I'm watching Dev Anand's film.
03:43 And then she said, you know, sometimes when you're tired, I do watch Dev Anand's songs
03:47 and video on YouTube before going to sleep.
03:50 It soothes you.
03:52 It may, it, sometimes I also see Shahrukh Khan in him.
03:57 And I said, oh my God, that's it.
03:59 I had also felt that, but I was a little skeptical about saying it to somebody.
04:04 I see Shahrukh Khan in Dev Anand, I see Dev Anand in Shahrukh Khan.
04:09 And that triggered the subject actually, to be very honest.
04:12 I said, both are romantic heroes.
04:16 So why not trace the journey from Dev Anand to Shahrukh Khan?
04:20 And then I spoke to Dwarkanath Sansgiri, who's a great Dev Anand fan.
04:25 So I said, let us do it together.
04:28 And then we started talking, my brother Hemant Karnik was in our discussions.
04:32 And then he was so much the part of our discussions that we said, okay, let's the three of us
04:38 write it.
04:39 So we started talking about it and it's not a straight journey.
04:42 It's not a straight line from Dev Anand to Shahrukh Khan.
04:44 There are some in between.
04:46 So like Dev Anand to Shammi Kapoor, Shammi Kapoor to Rajesh Khanna, Rajesh Khanna to
04:53 Rishi Kapoor and Rishi Kapoor to Shahrukh Khan.
04:56 So while discussing and while talking about it, I realized that there's a lot of difference
05:03 between Shammi Kapoor's romance and Dev Anand's romance.
05:07 So Dev Anand's romance is like very soft, very romantic-romantic.
05:11 There's a lot of aggression in Shammi Kapoor's romance.
05:14 There's lots of physicality.
05:16 So we started talking about it, started tracing it.
05:18 I spoke to a few people.
05:20 I spoke to Mahesh Bhatt.
05:21 I spoke to Dr. Chabbar Patel.
05:23 I spoke to Siddharth Bhatia.
05:24 I spoke to Anupama Chopra.
05:25 There are a few interviews also, lots of books and that's how it all started actually.
05:34 Okay.
05:35 You know, I heard in your interview, your Marathi interview the other day, you said
05:42 you watched 80 films of Dev Anand in a single year.
05:46 I can tell you with a fair degree of confidence that I don't think even Dev Anand watched
05:53 80 films of his in his entire lifetime.
05:56 You have to be insane to do that.
06:02 He did extremely well for about more than a quarter century.
06:07 So I'm trying to picture him when you would have told him that you watched 80 of his movies,
06:12 how he might have reacted.
06:15 Tell me, which movie did you start with?
06:20 Which movie did you start with?
06:22 Tere Ghar Ke Samne, of course.
06:26 Then Kala Pani, then Kala Bazaar, then Maya, then every Asli Naqali, all the famous movies.
06:35 Then I went to Guide I had not watched because I said, I remember Guide very vividly.
06:41 Then everything Johnny Mera Naam, Jewel Thief, even his Heera Panna, not so great movies
06:49 in his later stages.
06:53 Those also I watched, everything.
06:54 And some to at least three times, four times, like Solwa Saal, Roop Ki Rani Choron Ka Raja,
07:02 So Gyaara, everything, Baazi of course, Jaal, Farar and so many, so many of them, so many
07:12 of them.
07:13 And it was fun.
07:14 I really, really, really enjoyed it.
07:17 And I've met Dev Sarraj.
07:18 Some of the movies that you mentioned, oh you did?
07:22 Okay.
07:23 Yeah.
07:24 In 80s.
07:25 Some of the movies that you mentioned were great fun.
07:28 Yeah.
07:29 Great, great fun.
07:30 But again, I thought was like, he was not just a romantic hero in his done so many different
07:37 gray shades in his, there are so many gray shades in his role, some of the roles that
07:43 even Raj Kapoor and Dilip Kumar at that time have not ventured into.
07:47 So those gray shades, like in Jaal, he's completely black till the end, till the last frame, he's
07:55 black.
07:56 Like at the end, she says, Geeta Wadi says, you can't shoot me because you're in love
08:00 with me.
08:01 And that's the time when he, when that bandook that he's got, he just drops it.
08:07 And the film ends there.
08:09 Like throughout the film, he's trying, he's a con.
08:14 So it's in house number 44 in Baazi.
08:18 So many of the films, in Kala Bazaar for that matter, there are so many gray shades in his
08:24 portrait.
08:25 So when you call, and it's quite natural, like when you have a Dilip Kumar to compare
08:32 with, who's a great, great, great actor, it like you will be overshadowed in acting sense.
08:40 Like nobody said Dev Anand was a great actor.
08:44 Nobody ever said like he had lots of charm, but nobody ever considered him to be a great
08:48 actor.
08:49 But I think he was not a bad actor at all.
08:54 Apart from his charm, the roles he did was, the risks he took was great.
09:00 It's very commendable.
09:01 No, indeed.
09:02 In fact, I would say that in terms of delivering some of the lines, say even in a movie like
09:10 Guide, for instance, the precision of his intonation and language, once you go past
09:18 his charisma, you can see that the man was as precise as Dilip Kumar in terms of delivering
09:24 his line.
09:25 People don't recognize that.
09:28 I used to talk to him about that.
09:29 So he would just brush it off.
09:31 Hota hai, hota hai.
09:34 That's what he would say.
09:37 Okay.
09:38 Couple of things.
09:41 I want to ask you to me personally, two songs completely emblematize romance in Hindi cinema.
09:49 These are the two greatest romantic songs of all time in my book.
09:54 One is, of course, Abhi Na Jao Chhod Kar.
10:00 And the other is the title of your movie Dil Ka Bhavar Kare Bukaar, Pyaar Kar Aakar.
10:05 Absolutely.
10:06 Which one is yours?
10:09 My favorite is Dil Ka Bhavar Kare Bukaar.
10:13 Because I think, basically, I think Devanand and Vahida was a great pair.
10:19 Devanand and Vahida Rahman.
10:20 But to me, Devanand and Nootan made an amazing pair.
10:24 More than Devanand and Madhubala.
10:26 He looked great with everybody for that matter.
10:29 But my favorite is Devanand and Nootan.
10:32 I just love them.
10:34 To see them together is like a treat, I feel.
10:37 Both of them complement each other.
10:39 Both of them are amazing.
10:42 Nootan is one of the greatest actresses, I feel, for me.
10:48 But together, even Dekho Rootana Karo, all the songs, Tere Ghar Ke Samne, those songs
10:56 are great.
10:57 But Dil Ka Bhavar Karo Bukaar is amazing.
10:59 Nootan, there is no female voice in it.
11:02 But her presence itself, you can't imagine Dil Ka Bhavar Kare Bukaar as a solo song.
11:06 You imagine it as a duet.
11:09 So that's my most favorite.
11:12 Absolutely.
11:13 And it has such charm.
11:17 It is so Devanand in many ways, that song.
11:20 Absolutely.
11:21 Yeah.
11:22 Absolutely.
11:23 And even Dil Ke Ghar Ke Samne.
11:26 Yeah, I was talking about Tu Kahan Yeh Batao.
11:31 And that song also, yeah, Tu Kahan Yeh Batao is such a great song.
11:37 It's like he's searching for her address.
11:39 And when she sees him, the way she looks at him and is surprised.
11:43 So that is romance, basically.
11:47 Yeah, I personally don't think anyone has surpassed Devanand in terms of cinematic romance.
11:57 There are other names that you mention in your book, which be Shabmi Kapoor.
12:01 Shabmi Kapoor is like a sledgehammer romance.
12:03 Yeah, it's got lots of aggression.
12:08 Right.
12:09 Rajesh Khanna had a cinematic touch, for sure.
12:15 But he repeated himself.
12:16 But Rishi Kapoor, but Shah Rukh Khan.
12:19 Right, right.
12:20 Yeah, Rishi Kapoor.
12:21 No, Shah Rukh Khan is, again, my favorite.
12:24 I like Shah Rukh Khan very much.
12:27 I love Shah Rukh Khan, but I'm in love with Devanand.
12:30 That's the difference between the two, I say.
12:32 But Shah Rukh Khan also, I think the way he looks at his heroines, the way he treats his
12:38 heroines, there's lots of Devsabhis.
12:40 And I found so many similarities in the films also.
12:44 I've mentioned that in my book, if I can tell this.
12:49 Do you remember Shah Rukh Khan's song in Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge, the one where he's on
12:57 the piano, "Rukh jao, dil diwane."
13:02 When you watch Duniya, there's a scene in Duniya where Baijanti Mala is playing the
13:08 piano.
13:09 Everybody claps, all her friends around her.
13:12 Devsabh doesn't.
13:14 And the friends say, "Why aren't you clapping?"
13:15 Etc.
13:16 And then she says, "If you're so arrogant, try your hand at the piano."
13:20 And he said, "I'm an advocate.
13:22 How would I know?"
13:23 So he sits on the piano and then some false notes he just plays.
13:32 And then suddenly she turns her back and goes and he starts singing Falsafa Pyaar Ka.
13:37 It's the exact, almost a replica of that scene.
13:40 So interesting.
13:41 Shah Rukh Khan, of course, he is like, I don't know if you talk to today's women or girls,
13:49 Shah Rukh Khan is like God to them.
13:52 I think, again, his charm is something that you cannot just ignore.
13:59 Like when he says, "Main koi aisa geet gaon, ujjhi chavna," it's like, oh my God, somebody
14:05 should sing that to me.
14:13 Coming back to the broader theme of your book, how long did you take to finish it?
14:20 How long did you take to write it?
14:22 Writing was, it took me some, took us some four months.
14:30 Yeah, four months of writing.
14:33 But before that, we started talking to each other since mid-22 June or something like
14:41 that.
14:42 Then there were lots of books to read.
14:43 There were these interviews that need to be done and the notes and everything.
14:49 Then sometimes we did not agree with each other.
14:51 So we discussed it and then came to an agreement.
14:56 So because everything that's come in the book should be owned by all three of us.
15:00 So it took quite some time.
15:01 But writing was fairly easy, I think.
15:05 Because by then we had the structure in our minds.
15:10 Okay.
15:11 I'm curious to know, since there are three people involved, did all three of you write
15:16 or it was assigned to one particular person based on the notes from all three?
15:22 Yeah, actually, because otherwise the three different styles book mein aa jati thi, which
15:28 was, which wouldn't be good.
15:30 When you're reading a book, it has to be in one style.
15:35 It has, it should have a flow.
15:37 It should be easy read, basically.
15:40 There shouldn't be any jerks or any ups and downs in terms of the style, the language,
15:46 and no two people can have the same style and same language.
15:50 So what we decided upon was since it was my idea, and I was so enthusiastic about it,
15:56 I basically write the final draft.
15:59 But they wrote, they gave what they felt was we decided on the subject like on music.
16:06 So we spoke about it.
16:08 And then one person wrote about it, or two people wrote about it, I got everything.
16:14 And I just, the final draft was done by me, but they also gave it in writing, like, it
16:20 wasn't just about discussion and not notes.
16:23 But what they had to say was written and given to me, I gathered all the information, and
16:30 then made it into one full book.
16:35 Okay.
16:36 Yeah.
16:37 Give me some snapshots of all the five people that you're talking about and how you see
16:44 them as romantic heroes.
16:46 We've already talked at length about Devanand.
16:49 Let's go to Shammi Kapoor, then followed by the other four.
16:52 And I want to understand how you look at them.
16:55 Yeah.
16:57 So what, see our Devanand chapter ends with saying that people wanted, Devanand was a
17:02 very soft romance, very romance, romance.
17:06 But maybe the public wanted something else.
17:08 And that's how another hero who was very aggressive, whose romance was very physical, and who was
17:18 like, I'm the boss kind of a hero, became so popular.
17:25 And then we move on to Shammi Kapoor.
17:27 So Shammi Kapoor's romance had aggression.
17:29 He was like, we've written about it in length, of course, it's very difficult to say it in
17:36 just one or two sentences, but Shammi Kapoor's romance was very, very physical, like his
17:43 songs also.
17:44 So even in his songs, though they were different, they were very, very different from Devanand's
17:51 romance, but it still was romance.
17:56 And he was the boss, actually.
17:59 He never, it did not matter to him who was his heroine.
18:04 He would be himself, like he would be Shammi Kapoor.
18:09 So and he said that in so many interviews that he worked with so many newcomers, proves
18:15 the fact that it was Shammi Kapoor who mattered.
18:19 Of course, he did, there were films where the heroine had an equally important role,
18:25 but otherwise, in most of his films, the heroines were there for him to romance.
18:34 And then after Shammi Kapoor, what we say is that there was this film called, we ended
18:39 Shammi Kapoor by saying that there was this film called Andaz, where Shammi Kapoor was
18:43 the hero, but all the limelight was hogged by a star who's become a superstar by then,
18:50 and who had just a 15 minute role, which is Rajesh Khanna.
18:52 And then we move on to Rajesh Khanna.
18:55 And while talking about Rajesh Khanna's romance, of course, Rajesh Khanna's romance, you can't
19:01 like he did in Aaradhana, how it was a big hit and everything, everything, his romance.
19:07 But we've also said that he had a very limited style, like he repeated himself acting wise.
19:17 And that four years, like Mr. Amitabh Bachchan has said once, the four years of Rajesh Khanna's
19:25 popularity was unprecedented.
19:28 It was like they were crazy fans.
19:31 So what did the fans see, the girls especially, what did they see in him and his guru shirt
19:37 and everything?
19:38 How did it become popular and everything that we have written?
19:41 And then we also said that, then there came an angry young man in 73, who just disrupted
19:48 the superstars kingdom and who reigned, who was the, who became the king almost for almost
19:56 15 years.
19:57 But even in those action packed 15 years, there was someone who kept the romance alive
20:02 in Hindi films, because in 73 itself, there was a film called Bobby, which got released.
20:08 And then we move on to Rishi Kapoor.
20:11 So we end Rishi Kapoor with a film called Deewana, where he's worked with Shah Rukh
20:19 Khan.
20:20 And then we say that there was this young boy with lots of energy who wanted to do something
20:26 in Mumbai, who wanted to prove himself, had come and then we move on to Shah Rukh Khan.
20:31 So that's our, what do you say, a link between these five heroes.
20:41 In Shashi Kapoor, we have also spoken about Shashi Kapoor, where we say that he had all
20:45 the qualities of being a romantic hero.
20:48 He was a good actor.
20:49 He was a great look.
20:50 He was very handsome.
20:53 But in spite of that, maybe because he was more interested in serious cinema, he did
20:58 not give his all to his commercial films.
21:02 And maybe that's why he did not become a heartthrob in that sense.
21:06 So we've spoken a little about Shashi Kapoor.
21:10 So in Deewana, we've also discussed Dilip Kumar and Raj Kapoor.
21:14 And in Shah Rukh Khan, we've also discussed Aamir Khan and Salman Khan a little bit.
21:20 So that's how the links are.
21:24 And then we've also written about their songs in another chapter, because you can't romance
21:29 without songs in Hindi.
21:31 So there's an independent chapter on their songs and there's an independent chapter on
21:37 their heroines, who they connected with and everything like.
21:44 So this is the whole book.
21:52 Do you personally dwell on specific songs in terms of what attracts you to those songs?
21:59 Yeah, we have.
22:01 We have spoken about, like just now we said, we have spoken about Dada Burman's song, Hemant
22:08 Kumar's song that Dada Burman gave to Dev Saab.
22:11 And we've spoken about Gai, which had the greatest album, actually, and still didn't
22:20 win the Filmfare Award that year.
22:23 So we've spoken about a few songs.
22:25 And then, of course, like Siddharth Bhatia has said that Dev Saab's songs were not just
22:31 some of the songs.
22:32 Like, of course, Main Zindagi Ka Saath Nibhata Chala Gaya, Hum Hai Rahi Pyar Ke, all these
22:38 songs, they were not just songs from his films.
22:43 They also, in a way, depicted his philosophy.
22:48 So we've spoken about that too.
22:51 Indeed.
22:52 Yeah.
22:53 OK.
22:54 How do you think the Marathi literature market, because Marathi literature market is very
23:01 vibrant.
23:02 It has a great tradition of very diverse kind of writing.
23:07 How do you think they would look at a book like this?
23:10 Because it's an interesting comparison of five leading men.
23:15 Yeah.
23:16 I don't know.
23:18 I think from what the response I'm getting is, we are very interested, we are intrigued.
23:23 So I hope they love the whole, because it's not just, what do you say?
23:30 It's not documentation.
23:32 It's actually a documentation of a period, a limited period, of course, a romantic limited
23:38 period, but it's still a documentation.
23:42 So I think it's not just, it's not lots of anecdotes.
23:47 It's a very easy read.
23:50 It's an interesting book, but it's not just a book on films.
23:54 It is something different.
23:56 So I hope they like it.
24:00 And Devanand and Shah Rukh Khan are of course, I'm very surprised by the way, Mayank, that
24:06 even today, if you see the reactions that I've got on Facebook or elsewhere, or even
24:12 when I speak to my friends, or it's maybe because of my age, but they speak more about
24:17 Dev Saab than about anybody else, any other hero from our book.
24:22 Like they're more, oh, we are Devanand fans, we are looking forward to this.
24:26 So Dev Saab's still the most popular, perhaps, after Shah Rukh Khan.
24:33 He was one of a kind.
24:34 He was one of a kind.
24:35 He was really one of a kind.
24:38 And this I'm saying, having known him for, see, I knew two people from the industry extremely
24:43 well in almost the same amount of, same number of years.
24:47 One was of course, Devanand, the other was Rajesh Khanna.
24:50 I knew him for a quarter century or more.
24:53 I should have spoken to you before.
24:57 In fact, extremely closely, Rajesh Khanna used to, in fact, every time my phone rang
25:03 either in Bombay or Delhi after midnight, it would be him, every single time, with some
25:10 random question about this.
25:12 So anyway, I'm interested to know from you, in terms of the way you look at, you made
25:20 a distinction between you fell in love with Devanand and you love Shah Rukh Khan.
25:26 Tell me a bit more about it.
25:29 Yeah.
25:30 What do you say?
25:34 I really love Shah Rukh Khan.
25:35 I love his romantic films, not his action ones, but his romantic films.
25:40 And again, not when you say that you like someone you love, the actor like, it's not
25:45 all his films, like even Dev Saab's.
25:47 It's not all his later films.
25:49 As a critic, you have to be objective.
25:52 You can't just say, I'm a Bhakt.
25:55 Whatever Dev Saab does is great.
25:56 It's not like that.
25:57 You need to be a little objective and you need to accept that.
26:01 Yeah.
26:02 And so even with Shah Rukh Khan, it's like that.
26:05 I love him.
26:06 I like the way he romances his heroines on the screen.
26:09 I love the way he speaks about his heroines off screen, the respect he gives, the way
26:15 he talks about them is very gentlemanly and it's amazing, like the importance he gives
26:23 them.
26:24 And then you see those clips, small clips where he's actually, what do you say, trying
26:31 to lift his wife's gown, which is flowing on the ground and some small gestures, the
26:38 way he speaks to, he gives interviews.
26:41 It's all combined.
26:42 So it's not just about Shah Rukh Khan being an actor, but it's also about the way you
26:47 see him off screen too.
26:49 So that's also, that's one of the reasons why I like him a lot.
26:54 And then with Dev Saab also, I've just met him thrice.
27:00 And that too in the 80s.
27:03 But the interviews that you saw during his birth centenary celebrations, like everybody
27:11 right from Waheeda ji to everybody, to Tina Muni, Mumtaz ji, everybody was talking about
27:17 how gentlemanly he was off sets too.
27:22 Waheeda ji has said in an interview that when Dev came on the sets, he put his hand on my
27:29 shoulder and I never felt unsafe.
27:31 I wouldn't allow any other hero to do that.
27:35 So these are the small things when you, apart from that screen persona, that off screen
27:42 persona also, it becomes a good, it feels nice to read these things.
27:48 And then that all this together makes you, and also one more thing I wanted to add was
27:54 but Saab, Mahesh Bhatt has said a very interesting thing in an interview I did with him.
27:58 So when we're talking about his later films, he said that he was allowed to do anything
28:03 because he'd given us so much that he was allowed to do trash films because we are not
28:09 going to remember Dev Saab for those films.
28:11 We are going to remember him for something that he's given us, the treasure that he's
28:15 given us all along his career.
28:18 That was an interesting thing.
28:21 No, I agree.
28:24 To conclude, let me ask you this question.
28:30 If in a different avatar, if you were to date between Dev Anand and Shah Rukh Khan, whom
28:37 would you date?
28:38 Dev Anand.
28:39 Definitely Dev Anand.
28:40 Okay, there you go.
28:41 I didn't take a minute to answer that.
28:42 Meena, milte hain, milte hain.
29:03 Thank you.
29:04 Thank you.