Podcast: Riding a wave of change in the NFL, arch rivals of the Raiders in Vegas, the NFL Draft, and much more
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00:00 Hi everybody, this is Hondo Carpenter from Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation, Las Vegas
00:06 Raiders Insider Podcast, joined by my good friend, the editor and publisher of thespun.com.
00:12 One of the best sports websites that there is on the internet.
00:15 It's in my favorites, I read it every day.
00:17 It's this guy, the great Matt Hladdy.
00:19 Matt, we have so much to talk about.
00:22 I want to start, we're going to start and end with Raiders talk, but the Raiders, when
00:31 you look at D'Amico Ryan's and his success, Dan Campbell and his success, and the Raiders
00:38 really follow that same vein and hire, you know, Antonio Pierce, who had success in his
00:46 internship, we're beginning to see a wave and I believe, and I think you do too, because
00:53 we're old enough, we're not young, that this is really, the NFL always works in waves.
00:58 I remember when the spread offense first came about and people were saying, you know, you
01:04 need to ban this from football.
01:07 It's not football.
01:08 It's hurting the game.
01:09 And people are like, relax, the game always adjusts.
01:12 And then some old guys begin to speak.
01:15 You obviously don't remember the triple option.
01:17 I do.
01:19 No, I know, but I'm saying old guys were saying to the people you had to, you have to ban
01:25 the, you know, the spread, you know, well, there was years ago, people saying you had
01:31 to ban the triple option.
01:33 The NFL goes in waves.
01:34 I like this wave, giving young former player coaches who bring a different perspective
01:41 to the game.
01:43 I like it.
01:44 Now you're still going to see the Mike McDaniels is in the, in the Dolphins, but again, he
01:50 even represents a little bit of a different wave.
01:53 But I like this wave of former coaches.
01:56 Give me your thoughts on this.
01:58 First of all, do you agree that the NFL operates in waves?
02:02 And then second of all, what do you think of this one?
02:05 I do agree because I think you see one type of system having success and you see a lot
02:11 of people trying to hire coaches with influence from that system, such as, you know, the Shanahan
02:16 system now hasn't really worked out for a lot of teams, but you've seen teams try to
02:21 hire from Bill Belichick's trio over the years.
02:24 And, you know, it went from with the offensive, you know, explosion we've seen in the NFL
02:30 in recent years, you've seen more offensive coaches get a chance at the expense of defensive
02:35 coordinators or defensive minded coaches.
02:38 So the NFL does go in waves and whatever the next trend is, team takes the lead by storm.
02:46 And then, you know, you said it kind of has a way of adapting and, you know, rolling with
02:52 it.
02:54 As far as, you know, Dan Campbell and Demico Ryans, the success they've had has been tremendous
02:59 and it looks like, at least in the, it looks like with Dan Campbell, because he's been
03:06 there more than one year and he's, you know, had that incremental improvement from four
03:14 wins to nine wins now to 12 in an NFL title game.
03:18 It looks like he has built something sustainable there in Detroit.
03:25 You know, I don't know, he even said, I don't know if we're back to this point again.
03:29 It's a title game.
03:30 It's tough to win the playoffs, but it looks like they have a sustainable program built
03:35 there.
03:36 Demico Ryans, I think, was able to come in and instantly commanded respect.
03:40 He instantly made a gigantic change on the culture there in Houston.
03:47 CJ Stroud was a godsend to have as a rookie quarterback coming in with you as a rookie
03:54 head coach.
03:55 So I'm excited to see what they do.
03:56 I think the potential is there, especially in a division that sort of has a little bit
04:00 of upheaval to be the force that division for a while.
04:07 Turning to the Raiders, you know, obviously you hope that Antonio Pierce instills that
04:12 culture, continues to do what he did during his, you know, half a season as the interim
04:17 head coach.
04:19 You see a guy who has, he's a leader of men the way Dan Campbell is a leader of men.
04:24 Demico Ryans kind of gets the whole group to buy in and play physical and play hard
04:29 and, you know, sets that tone.
04:32 That's what you're hoping for.
04:34 You saw glimpses of it, I think, in the nine games he was coaching this year.
04:38 You hope it carries over.
04:41 And that's, I think, the model that the Raiders are going for.
04:45 I like this young, tough, former player because I think, I think the game of football almost
04:54 was getting too robotic.
04:55 Let's legislate everything out of the game.
04:58 Let's take the physicality.
05:00 And I think Dan and Demico and Antonio have brought back a sense of, this is a physical
05:08 football game.
05:09 This is physicality.
05:11 Let's bite a kneecap.
05:13 I love the game and I was concerned about the game and where it was going.
05:18 And now I have some hope for the game of football.
05:21 What about you?
05:22 I do, I think that it is a breath of fresh air, like you said, to see some of these younger
05:29 guys with personalities and who, you know, they paid their dues.
05:36 It's not like they came from, you know, off the street.
05:38 They obviously have experience, but they are not the sort of typical, didn't take the typical
05:46 route maybe to become a head coach.
05:50 Or they became, they sort of accelerated that route from, you know, when the time their
05:55 career ended because they're getting to jobs fairly young.
05:58 I think that it's, it's a good thing for the game.
06:01 Is this thing you said robotic?
06:04 I do think that, you know, I don't have concern about the NFL.
06:09 The NFL is going to be what it is for in perpetuity.
06:16 In terms of football itself changing, yeah, there are some changes I think you see that,
06:21 you know, some of the roughing calls, some of the ticky tack penalties and different
06:27 things that, you know, can be tough to stomach or, you know, tough to take your time.
06:34 So I don't know.
06:35 I do agree with the physicality thing too.
06:38 I think that football at its heart is always going to be a physical game.
06:43 It's always going to be, you know, if you have guys up front on both sides of the ball
06:47 that can move people and make people uncomfortable, you're going to win a lot of games and be
06:51 in a lot of games.
06:52 And I think you saw that with the Lions on Sunday.
06:55 I know second half, we all know how that happened, but the way they came out and punched San
07:01 Francisco in the mouth the first two quarters and put themselves, you know, San Francisco
07:06 had to wake up.
07:07 I mean, the offensive line was moving the 49ers defensive line, which has a lot of big
07:14 name guys on it.
07:16 The Lions defensive line was getting some pressure on Brock Purdy and making plays.
07:20 I think that that physicality, that attitude is a good thing.
07:26 I agree.
07:27 Now you said something there that I vehemently disagree with and we hadn't planned on discussing,
07:32 but I want to talk to you about.
07:34 You said the NFL is always going to be the NFL in perpetuity.
07:38 I disagree with you and I want to tell you why we can discuss this.
07:43 I love the NFL, but when you can become so big that then you become your biggest enemy
07:55 for being successful.
07:57 Same way of my country.
07:58 I love America.
08:00 And America is a very strong, good country.
08:04 But America's biggest enemy is going to be Americans taking it for granted, not nurturing
08:12 it, not caring about it, not helping it continue to be all that it can be.
08:17 And I think America, I would like to believe, can operate in perpetuity if the American
08:23 people will take care of it.
08:26 To me, the NFL, same way.
08:27 I think it's big enough that it can operate in perpetuity, but it's going to have to take
08:35 people who care for and love the NFL to protect its identity.
08:39 Because every time something comes up, well, we need to legislate it out.
08:43 Let's legislate out the tush push.
08:45 Geez, oh Pete, who are these people that think you have to legislate everything out?
08:49 How about defensive coordinators be allowed to come up with a plan on how to stop something?
08:55 I mean, you just can't keep creating rules.
08:59 At some point, that's the game.
09:02 You've got to protect the integrity.
09:03 It is a physical game.
09:05 I heard someone say one time, you know, I can see the NFL in 50 years being a touch
09:11 league or a flag league.
09:13 It's not going to be the NFL then.
09:15 You have to, I'm all for making it safe.
09:19 I'm all for protecting the players.
09:21 But at the same time, if it's going to live in perpetuity and it has the ability to, some
09:27 people are going to have to protect what it is.
09:30 That's why I like these young coaches.
09:31 I'll give you a chance to rebut.
09:34 I understand what you're saying.
09:36 I'm not saying I disagree with your overall point.
09:39 I think that if you don't kind of preserve some of the backbone of the game, it becomes
09:47 diluted.
09:48 It becomes, you know, it loses some of its luster.
09:51 And I agree with, that's why I said about, you know, some of the roughing calls we've
09:54 seen, some of the ticky tack penalties.
10:01 I also, you know, as annoying as it is to play against the Eagles, to see your team
10:06 play against the Eagles and see them run that play, I don't think they should be, it should
10:10 be banned.
10:11 I really don't.
10:12 I think it's an innovation that they were able to come up with, something that they
10:17 used to their advantage.
10:19 And you know, if people can't find a way to stop it, we'll see it.
10:25 Maybe if they lose some of these linemen like Jason Kelsey and others to retirement, it
10:29 won't be as effective to the degree that it was.
10:32 So it might be the game kind of policing itself, like you said.
10:36 My feelings for the NFL always being the big dog.
10:41 Again, if it did go to touch football or something like that, yeah, I think that would be a major
10:45 flaw.
10:46 But the reason why I feel like the NFL is going to be the big dog is because when I
10:49 look at the rest of the competition and I just don't see anything overtaking it.
10:54 Baseball was the national pastime.
10:56 It's always going to hold a significant place in America.
11:00 But the NFL overtook baseball years ago and I don't see it going back.
11:06 The NBA has some incredible talent now.
11:11 And there were some people for a while, years ago, saying the NBA might overtake the NFL
11:16 and it has a chance.
11:17 It's not going to.
11:18 It's just it's it doesn't have it never did.
11:22 It never was going to overtake the NFL, but it doesn't even have the old rivalries or
11:27 that type of element to it the way you had in the 80s and 90s in the past.
11:32 Hockey's always been a niche sport.
11:35 You know how big hockey is in the Midwest, in Michigan, even in New York.
11:41 There's a fervent hockey base with a range of fans.
11:45 In Vegas though.
11:46 And they get all the Vegas is an elite team you have.
11:49 So hockey fans are really passionate, but that's never going to be the number one sport.
11:56 I don't see the competition there for the NFL.
12:00 And I look at it this way, too.
12:02 If you look at the way the prize has gone the last couple of years, at least at the
12:07 beginning of season, it was a lot of sloppy football being played.
12:11 Now listen, Patrick Mahomes is one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest
12:14 of all time.
12:15 There's a lot of other great young quarterbacks in the league, fun to watch.
12:20 But there is a lot of parody that I think came from a sloppiness or a kind of everyone's
12:27 kind of a mushy middle of teams in the NFL, which I think kind of hurts the league.
12:34 But at the same time, the ratings are through the roof.
12:36 We're still tuning in on Sundays and Mondays and Thursdays and sometimes on Saturdays,
12:42 or even on Black Friday this year.
12:44 So the league has that built in advantage.
12:49 Now I will say this, I agree with you.
12:51 You can't take that too much for granted because then if the product becomes bastardized too
12:57 much or if it really is a shell of itself, it'll be an issue.
13:02 But I don't see the NFL being challenged by any other professional sports league anytime
13:08 soon.
13:09 Yeah, I don't think there's a professional sports league that can overtake it.
13:15 But you can destroy and rot yourself from the inside out where you just continually
13:23 cut out your fan base and it just continues to shrink to the point.
13:27 Then one day you hire some consultant who's only somebody that hasn't done it.
13:34 I'm not saying all consultants are that way, but you go hire a consultant who hasn't played
13:38 in the NFL and you say to them, "Gee, what's wrong with our league?
13:43 Why are we hemorrhaging people?"
13:44 And they start making up things.
13:48 You've got to protect it.
13:50 You have to protect it.
13:52 Listen, I'm all for making it as safe as possible.
13:57 But I've heard players say, "We know the risk.
14:03 We understand at some point you can make it as safe as you want and we want it safe, but
14:09 there is risk.
14:10 It's always going to be involved with the game the way it is."
14:13 I think when you start, it's just like you can't legislate morality.
14:18 Well, you can't legislate.
14:21 You can legislate to the point where you ruin things.
14:25 That's just where I'm concerned about the game.
14:29 For example, I have tweeted so many times, "I hate the call the ref just made, but he
14:34 made the right call according to the rule."
14:39 That's my concern.
14:40 And I'm going to tell you this.
14:42 Here is the biggest concern I have about the NFL, and I have several, but here's my biggest.
14:50 There are a lot of people who believe this game is rigged.
14:55 I don't at all.
14:56 I'm around it every day.
14:57 I don't in any way buy into that.
15:00 So I'm telling you right now, I'm not buying that.
15:05 But there are a lot of people that do, and that's the reality.
15:11 And when you look at the terrible officiating, when you look at how bad things get, at some
15:18 point, when all of a sudden Vegas, and I'm not talking about the Raiders, I'm talking
15:25 about the casinos, say, "Listen, y'all better get this together or we're going to start
15:29 taking certain refs' officiating games off the books."
15:34 Those are things that cut to the heart of the game.
15:38 And rather than worrying about the stupid crap, worry about the integrity of the game.
15:44 Go fix officiating.
15:46 I did something.
15:47 As you know, I travel all the time.
15:50 And I've been doing something where I talk to people and say to them, "Are you a football
15:59 fan?"
16:00 I don't tell them what I do if they don't know who I am.
16:02 And I always ask them, "What do you think of the NFL?
16:05 Do you like it?
16:06 Do you enjoy it?
16:07 Do you think it's entertainment?
16:08 Do you think it's a real sport?
16:09 What do you think?"
16:11 Matt, I'm stunned at the amount of people.
16:15 So I'm sitting on an airplane the other day and flying to Los Angeles.
16:21 And I'm sitting next to an older couple, and he's got on a ball cap for a baseball team.
16:28 And I said to them, "I think they were from South Carolina."
16:35 And I said to the gentleman, "Are you a sports fan?"
16:39 "Yeah."
16:40 I said, "Do you like the NFL?"
16:41 "Nope."
16:42 "You don't?
16:44 What happened?"
16:45 He says, "I was a season ticket holder for the Panthers for years.
16:51 I love the game.
16:53 I love football."
16:56 I said, "Well, what happened?"
16:58 He said, "It's the WWE now.
17:01 Rigged."
17:03 Now I want to reiterate, I don't believe that.
17:08 But Matt, when it's so bad, and the officiating is so bad, and they don't seem to really care
17:14 about it, or it certainly appears certain teams get much more favorable attention than
17:20 others, that's stuff that cuts to the integrity of the game.
17:24 Do you see that, or do you think I'm completely wrong?
17:26 No, I see some people who you see on social media.
17:31 Again, it's tough to measure how widespread the opinion is, how many people earnestly
17:37 believe it, or how many people just say it cynically or toss it out there.
17:42 But I do think there are definitely people who feel that the NFL ... Because we saw it
17:50 in the NBA with the Tim Donahue reffing scandal, where the NBA influenced how games were officiated,
18:01 and people still believe it to this day, that it was influenced how they were officiated,
18:08 so that certain teams win or have a better chance-
18:12 I totally believe that there was influences in officiating the NBA.
18:16 Do you not?
18:17 No, without a doubt.
18:18 It's been, basically, it's proven.
18:20 Again, now here's the thing.
18:23 The team's players still got to make shots.
18:25 In the NFL, there's no more ... It's the biggest team game.
18:30 There's so many different things going on in one play.
18:32 11 players are involved in every play.
18:37 You can't ... People think it's scripted or things like that.
18:40 That's just foolish.
18:42 But there are people that legitimately do believe that the league wants things influenced
18:48 a certain way.
18:49 You saw it ... I saw it on Twitter even before the AFC Championship game.
18:57 We're talking about a guy, Warren Sharpe, who's one of the foremost analytics writers
19:05 in the game today.
19:06 He runs his own Sharpe Football Analysis Magazine and Company website.
19:11 He made note of the official, the referee for the AFC Championship game, Sean Smith,
19:17 who has a tendency ... Road teams have a tendency to get to fare better with him.
19:27 He went through this entire thread how he is a ref that road ... I don't know if it's
19:33 intentional, but road teams do better, fare better than you'd think under him when he's
19:41 refing them in the NFL.
19:44 Warren Sharpe was not suggesting that the NFL was rigging the AFC Championship game,
19:48 but what he was basically saying is that here's a guy with these numbers, these stats in favor
19:54 of the road team, about to be the ref in charge of the AFC title game when the team on the
20:01 road is the best ... is the defending Super Bowl champions with the best quarterback.
20:07 In the storyline of Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift that we know the NFL was because it's
20:12 making them millions of dollars.
20:15 Do I think the Chiefs won the game because it's rigged?
20:18 No, I don't.
20:19 I think they won the game because they were the better team.
20:20 I think they shut down Lamar Jackson, they shut down the Ravens.
20:23 I think the Ravens' offensive game plan was all over the place, too, but that's a topic
20:29 for another day.
20:31 When you have somebody, a mainstream writer, or people suggesting or looking at referee
20:36 assignments, because we see this all the time in the NBA in the playoffs, within series.
20:42 You see it on Twitter.
20:44 When does Scott Foster get assigned to a game, and what's the star's record with him as the
20:50 head official?
20:51 If you're starting to talk about referee assignments, that's not great for the league.
20:57 I'm going to tell you this.
20:58 I know in college basketball, college football, and pro football, those are the three sports
21:04 that I know for a fact, because I've had coaches tell me this, that they scout.
21:13 They scout refs.
21:17 I know at one point, in college, you didn't know who the refs were until a certain amount
21:23 of time.
21:24 Well, people knew.
21:27 They would constantly, and I know one coach that told me, "You know, see him come out
21:33 to warm up, then go back in the locker room, and he'd say, 'All right, here's the scouting
21:38 report on the officials.'"
21:41 But again, I know coaches in college football, college basketball, and pro football that
21:46 scout the officials.
21:48 I don't have a problem with that, because human tendency is human tendency.
21:52 I'm just concerned about the NFL hurting itself.
21:56 All right, talk about the enormity of the NFL.
22:01 The college football playoff, we just looked at the number.
22:05 I think, what was it, 25 million?
22:07 Something like that, yeah.
22:09 The championship game got 25 million, and everybody raved over it.
22:15 Huge ratings for the college football championship.
22:18 It was 47 million for the Raiders on Christmas Day, nearly double what the championship was
22:26 for just a Christmas Day game.
22:30 Now we know the NFC championship game was nearly 57 million.
22:38 The Super Bowl last year was 200 million.
22:42 I mean, no sports league even remotely competes with an NFL regular season game, and many
22:54 of them don't even compete with a preseason game.
22:58 It's phenomenal to me.
23:00 Let's talk about the enormity of the National Football League.
23:06 To me, it's not just the popularity of football in general.
23:12 It's the way the NFL has built its brand, and the NFL more so than any other ... Actually,
23:24 it's the only professional football league, only professional sports league that owns
23:29 a day of the week.
23:31 Sundays from early September through early February are the property of the NFL.
23:42 People will stop what they're doing, whether it's to watch their favorite team, whether
23:45 it's to follow fantasy or daily sports betting or things like that, and it's a ritual on
23:52 a weekly basis, which is why you see seemingly innocuous regular season games draw these
24:01 insane ratings just because of how big of a brand the NFL is.
24:07 It's a wagon.
24:11 And then when you look at ... And again, talking about owning a day of the week, even though
24:14 the NFL plays on different days now, it still has that kind of cachet.
24:22 NFL Sundays are ...
24:23 They own whenever they play.
24:26 Right, they do.
24:27 I mean, you look at ... On Sunday, there was some college basketball, there were NBA games,
24:33 there were different things, but it was Championship Sunday.
24:37 If you're a sports fan, whether you're a diehard, whether you're a casual, whatever, you had
24:42 some eyeballs on those two games on Sunday.
24:47 Forget about the Super Bowl.
24:49 Everybody watches the Super Bowl or consumes it in some aspect, even if they're not the
24:56 biggest fans of football.
25:04 Whether it's for the halftime show or the pregame, the National Anthem singers, or this
25:10 year Taylor Swift in the crowd, there's something for everybody with the Super Bowl.
25:14 I just think that the NFL, because it is ... Even the playoff games are one or two days of
25:24 the week, Saturdays, Sundays, and I guess the one Monday game for the first couple of
25:29 rounds.
25:30 It's the first round, and then it's a divisional round, and then it's Championship Sunday,
25:35 Super Bowl Sunday.
25:37 No other league has that.
25:38 The NBA finals are played, and the playoffs are played throughout the week.
25:43 They're longer series.
25:45 Same thing with baseball, same thing with hockey.
25:48 The NFL structure and the way that it has built its brand, it's on the present.
25:54 Yep.
25:55 Totally agree with you.
25:57 I got to tell you, Matt, it is fascinating to me.
25:59 I'm looking forward to everyone being out here in the desert for the game, and of course
26:03 all the media rose all week, and all of it.
26:06 It's fascinating to me to look at the enormity of the sport.
26:10 Now I want to look at one other part of it, then we're going to go back with some more
26:13 Raider talk.
26:17 I admit all the Taylor Swift attention.
26:20 I saw a meme that said instead of a drinking game, do an eyedrop of Tabasco every time
26:27 they show Taylor Swift on television.
26:31 I am of the group, I don't like it, just going to be honest, but I love it.
26:39 You say, "Wait a minute, you don't like it, but you love it."
26:42 Here's why.
26:46 Front Office Sports just did a story that said Taylor Swift's now participation in the
26:54 NFL has brought an extra $331 million into the National Football League.
27:03 All kinds of new eyes, which we've talked about on this show.
27:08 The amount of people who are now tuning in, I'm told, I don't know this, I haven't experienced
27:16 it, but if she wears a shirt or had a shirt made, that shirt sells out.
27:25 I don't like it, but if it's bringing fresh and new eyeballs to the game, it's good for
27:29 the game.
27:32 As annoying as it is, I think anything that brings a new audience to the game is good
27:38 for it.
27:39 I talked about the NFL legislating itself out.
27:42 It's got to be careful about old guys like me saying, "Get off my lawn," too.
27:46 You got to be open to a new audience, and she certainly has brought it.
27:50 Your thoughts?
27:51 Without a doubt.
27:53 I am one of the people who, there are a lot of things in the world that I don't understand
28:02 why they bother people so much.
28:06 I understand that maybe you're like, "Okay, I'm tired of this Taylor Swift storyline,
28:09 or I'm tired of the Chiefs in general," or whatever, but I don't understand the amount
28:14 of people that are so annoyed or so angry about it.
28:19 It's pretty harmless when you think about it.
28:22 Even if you don't like it or are tired of it, it's pretty harmless in general.
28:28 You said it's a good thing for the league.
28:30 I get people are tired of the Chiefs winning, they want to see maybe some different teams
28:35 in it.
28:37 What she's done for the league, it's a huge deal.
28:40 I think that I've seen, it's anecdotal stuff, but you see on Twitter, fans, adult men, whether
28:50 they're just fans or guys who are in the media talking about how it's opened up their younger
28:58 daughters who were maybe not into the NFL as much, now they're into it more.
29:04 It strengthens that bond they have with their dads.
29:08 There's opportunities there, like you said, for new sets of eyeballs, new sets of people
29:16 to become fans.
29:18 Will it last forever?
29:20 It might not.
29:22 Some of these people may kind of give it up either when the season's over or give it up
29:29 if she and Travis Kelce break up or if they stay together.
29:32 Or if he retires after the Super Bowl or something, but they all won't.
29:39 There's going to be at least some type of interest there for some people that will linger
29:44 that will say, "Oh, I enjoyed that.
29:46 Maybe I'll tune into, instead of, I'm not going to watch every Chiefs game to see Taylor
29:52 Swift again, but maybe I'll check out a primetime game or a big game or something like that
29:57 and it'll be a thing that lasts for the NFL."
30:01 I think it's been a huge thing for the NFL.
30:07 The other thing is, I will say this before we get into whatever our next topic is, is
30:11 I don't believe that the relationship is staged by the NFL.
30:16 Do I believe that it was Travis having the connections he does as a celebrity after he
30:24 talked about being interested in Taylor Swift on his podcast, maybe some people reached
30:28 out to her and said, "Hey, you should book into this guy," or whatever?
30:32 Yeah, I think that happens with probably every celebrity relationship or a lot of them.
30:38 I think there was that, there were people helping it along the way, but I don't think
30:41 the NFL came to Taylor Swift in July and said, "You should date this dude so when his team
30:47 goes to the Super Bowl again, it makes a big deal for our league."
30:50 - I 100% agree with that.
30:53 What I don't like about it isn't that it's Taylor Swift or that it's the Chiefs.
30:59 I don't want them to show other guys' wives.
31:01 I'm watching the football, I don't care about it, but I love it because it's brought fresh
31:05 eyes to the game.
31:08 I know this, I have nieces that I like, that I love, that are important to me, who have
31:16 never talked sports with me in my entire life.
31:19 Never.
31:21 Who are now, I mean, one of my nieces just the other day said to me, "Uncle Hondo, do
31:28 you think that Travis Kelce is as handsome in person when you've seen him as he is on
31:35 TV?"
31:36 And I go, "Sweetie, I don't think he's handsome, I'm sorry."
31:39 But you know what, I thought, "This is cool, at least my nieces are talking to me about
31:43 football."
31:44 So yeah, I get it, I totally get it.
31:47 I don't like it when the attention's off of the game of football, but I love this, it's
31:52 brought a fresh audience in.
31:54 I want to talk about, and again, got a huge topic to get to with the Raiders in a minute,
31:58 but last non-Raider topic.
32:02 Prop bets.
32:03 These are something that bounced up years ago.
32:06 Now, I want to fully disclose to the audience, I'm not against playing poker with my buddies
32:13 or whatever.
32:16 You know, I think if, whether you go spend 50 bucks playing poker with your buddies at
32:21 a kitchen table or go to a movie or dinner, it's not a moral issue to me.
32:27 But in the interest of full disclosure, I don't bet on sports, I don't really bet on
32:33 anything other than playing cards with my friends, but once a year.
32:37 But because I cover sports, and that would be no bueno, no good.
32:44 I don't think that's right for people that cover a sport to bet on it.
32:48 I just don't believe in that.
32:50 But prop bets first came out, I remember first hearing about them, were these people that
32:55 have to gamble on everything, bet on will the head, will it be heads or tails?
33:03 And then how long the national anthem goes.
33:06 I mean, the immense, and I've heard so many.
33:12 So I get a call yesterday from a female relative who says to me, "Hey, you got a minute?"
33:23 I said, "Sure, what's up?"
33:26 "Can I ask you a really dumb question?"
33:28 I said, "Okay, I'm thinking about placing a bet on the Super Bowl."
33:33 I said, "Well, good for you."
33:34 I said, "I didn't even know you were a football fan."
33:36 "Well, I'm really not."
33:37 "Oh, okay.
33:38 What are you betting for?"
33:39 "Well, whether or not Travis Kelsey will propose to Taylor Swift on the field after the game."
33:58 What is this world coming to, Matt Holadek?
34:00 Talk me off the land.
34:01 That's exactly what I told him.
34:03 I have no clue.
34:07 I don't even care.
34:09 I didn't know that they'd been dating that long to get engaged.
34:12 I had no clue.
34:13 I thought this just happened recently.
34:14 But whatever.
34:15 I don't know.
34:16 I have no idea.
34:17 Matt, what's this world coming to?
34:19 Well, like you said, you can bet on anything with the NFL, with Super Bowl prop bets.
34:25 Obviously, the two most popular longstanding ones have always been the coin toss and the
34:30 national anthem over under.
34:32 But you can bet on what the Gatorade is going to be, what color Gatorade gets dumped on
34:37 the winning head coach.
34:39 You can bet on the first song that the halftime performer will play.
34:49 So this year it's Usher.
34:50 You'll have five or six options of Usher songs or something like that with different odds
34:55 attached to them.
34:56 And you can bet on which one you think he'll play first.
35:00 You can bet on, I know in the past there's been instances of, you know, say a player
35:08 has over under receiving yards of 48 and a half or something like that.
35:14 You can bet on what will be greater on that day.
35:18 That player's receiving yards or the combined points, rebounds and assists of an NBA star
35:26 playing that day, a LeBron James, a Giannis Antetokounmpo, somebody like that, that puts
35:30 up big stats.
35:33 You can bet on first touchdown scorers.
35:37 You can bet on, there's so many different ways that you can get involved in prop betting
35:42 for the Super Bowl, which I'm not a big, I'm not a better really either.
35:48 I'm not somebody that goes and puts in parlays or does different things like that and is,
35:52 you know, betting on a weekly basis in the NFL.
35:55 But I do think that if you are going to lay down some bets on the Super Bowl, the prop
36:00 bets make things kind of fun because they make things a little bit interesting outside
36:05 of necessarily the nitty gritty of who's covering the spread, is the over under going to hit,
36:10 you know, things like that.
36:12 Fascinating to me, Matt.
36:15 And to get a call from a relative.
36:18 Yeah.
36:19 As if you might have some inside info there on Travis and Taylor.
36:25 Yeah.
36:26 All right.
36:27 Go to the Raiders.
36:30 The Super Bowl is in their house.
36:34 Kansas City and San Francisco, two of their biggest rivals in the game.
36:43 You know, this is going to drive Antonio Pierce crazy.
36:47 And I am telling you, it is already stoked to fire and Raider nation.
36:54 There are.
36:56 Man.
36:59 I said to you when I took this job.
37:02 And came out to Vegas.
37:04 This is probably the only NFL job I would have taken.
37:06 I maybe would have considered one other one, but probably the only NFL job I would have
37:10 taken that would have moved me from Michigan.
37:13 But these people take the college approach to it.
37:18 I love it.
37:20 And I'm telling you, Matt, it is nuts.
37:24 And I don't blame him for being upset.
37:27 We saw Rooney from the Steelers come out and say, OK, enough is enough.
37:30 We got to win some playoff games here.
37:34 These fans, how torturous.
37:38 I mean, it would almost be like the game if the game was Anish Rutherford.
37:43 And you're a giant fan and you're watching the Jets and the Cowboys.
37:47 I know that that would not.
37:49 You know what I mean?
37:50 You're too big.
37:51 Yeah.
37:52 Yeah.
37:53 I want you to talk to Raider Nation.
37:57 Help them off the ledge here a little bit, Hladik, because I'm telling you, they're upset
38:00 about it and I can't blame.
38:02 No, I hear you.
38:04 You know, I mean, as a Giants fan, probably the closest thing we had was a few years ago
38:09 with Eagles and Patriots, because the Eagles are a hated rival and nobody really was rooting
38:17 for.
38:18 Nobody wanted to root for New England at that point because they were, you know, the dynasty
38:20 in the NFL, even though the Giants had beaten them in Super Bowls.
38:24 But here's what's funny.
38:25 I forgot.
38:26 It just was things I didn't even think of.
38:30 Obviously, you know, I know the Raiders Chiefs rivalry is one of the longest standing in
38:34 the NFL going back to the AFL days.
38:36 And I know that Raiders fans still hate the Chiefs.
38:40 I forgot about the Raiders and Niners rivalry because of the Bay Area, because the Raiders
38:45 were in Oakland for so long and, you know, and even if they moved to L.A. for a little
38:50 bit, you know, after the Raiders won their last title, the Niners went out and won a
38:57 few more in the 80s.
38:58 They were a team in the 80s.
38:59 There was all this, you know, kind of tension, animosity building there.
39:04 So I've completely that I didn't even register until I saw people tweeting about it as the
39:10 game was about to end on Sunday night.
39:14 So I think it's a it's.
39:18 I think it serves two purposes for the Raiders.
39:21 Gives you a little bit of motivation, I think, for the fans to say, we got to get back, you
39:26 know, or the players, we got to get here, we got to get here and give our fans something.
39:30 And the fans are going to be really even hungrier to see some success on that level.
39:35 But I also think it makes it it's man, it's tough to stomach for that week out there.
39:40 You live in the Vegas Henderson area out there because you're going to have fans of two fan
39:46 bases that you can't stand there for the whole time celebrating, getting ready to watch their
39:52 teams play in the biggest spectacle and the biggest game in the NFL on your team's home
39:58 field.
39:59 Yeah, I was told yesterday that there could be as many as a half a million people north
40:09 that are going to be there with no tickets.
40:11 That are going to be there on the strip partying for the Super Bowl, both teams.
40:15 It's going to be a wild, wild, wild time.
40:18 I'm looking forward to it.
40:20 I enjoy the Super Bowls.
40:22 I enjoy getting to go.
40:23 I'm looking forward to usher on the halftime show.
40:25 I think he's going to be pretty good, but it's going to be it's going to be a great
40:28 time.
40:29 Matt, I'll tell you, it's an interesting time in Raider Nation and a lot of good stuff
40:34 happening.
40:35 I know Pierce, he has injected the franchise with, I've called it Viagra for the soul.
40:46 That swag that, you know, I don't look at somebody in the, I don't have them right here,
40:50 but somebody in the organization sent me a pair of all black Air Force One.
40:57 I saw the pictures.
40:58 Yeah.
40:59 Yeah.
41:00 Well, it didn't go over good because I was wearing my white socks.
41:03 Yeah, you gotta wear black socks.
41:06 Yeah.
41:07 Well, Shannon came on the podcast the next day and said, I got him black socks.
41:14 I got crushed.
41:16 But anyways, it's just, he has invigorated the franchise.
41:22 He has brought it.
41:23 And let me just ask you your opinion.
41:26 Tom Telesco.
41:28 His hands were tied by an owner and an owner and an ownership family and the Chargers was
41:34 there a long time.
41:37 He was a Bill Pullian disciple, which clearly, you know, the respect I have for Bill Pullian.
41:42 Many people believe Bill Pullian on the, on the wall of great general managers is on the
41:48 Mount Rushmore of the NFL.
41:51 I thought his opening press conference, Matt, was tremendous.
41:56 The way he handled it, the way he talked about Antonio Pierce, about needing to sit down
42:03 with the staff and learn the players by talking to the coaches and about going to get him
42:11 the players he needs.
42:14 I think there was a lot of people in the building disappointed Champ Kelly didn't get it.
42:18 I think there were a lot of people in the fans disappointed Champ Kelly didn't get it.
42:24 I think there were a lot of people disappointed Ed Dodds didn't get it.
42:28 But at the end of the day, Mark Davis made the call.
42:32 I don't think he's ever made a decision, even though I think he's made some wrong decisions.
42:37 I don't think he's ever made a decision that he didn't have what he thought was the best
42:42 interest of the Raiders in mind.
42:45 I think he cares a lot more than a lot of other owners.
42:48 And I'm going to give him all of that respect.
42:52 But in the end, I think Telesco has time to prove himself.
42:57 But at this point, I think a lot of people giving him the benefit of the doubt.
43:02 What did you think about Telesco?
43:05 I thought it was higher, like I said last week, it surprised me a little from the outside
43:09 because I was thinking that it was a package deal with Champ Kelly and Antonio Pierce.
43:13 But I think that it's intriguing because it gives you that element of experience to have
43:19 alongside a guy who's never been a full-time head coach before.
43:23 Gives you somebody who knows not only the lay of the land as a general manager, but
43:28 the lay of the land as a GM of a team in your division.
43:33 So he's familiar with their structure, their personnel, not that it won't change with Harbaugh,
43:39 I'm sure it will.
43:40 But he's familiar also with your structure, your personnel from an outside perspective.
43:46 Brings that institutional knowledge of working with other executives and general managers
43:51 around the league.
43:52 So I think that there's something there that could be a pairing that works with Antonio
44:00 Pierce.
44:01 On paper, I see, even though it surprised me a little, I see where the Raiders were
44:04 going for it.
44:06 Yeah.
44:07 Last subject I want to talk about, we've been talking about it a lot lately, but there's
44:11 a lot of people that want to see the Raiders go up and trade to get a quarterback.
44:18 Excuse me.
44:22 And their feeling is, you can only get one at the top.
44:30 Well, then you're mortgaging your future, hoping you're right.
44:34 Now we know in 2011, they changed the salary structure.
44:39 So it's cheaper to go get a quarterback.
44:41 But I mentioned Jim Sargent in USA Today, who talked about 60% of, this is his writing,
44:48 60% of first round quarterbacks were not the long-term answer for their team since 1991
44:55 or maybe 1999.
44:56 I think it was 99.
45:00 You know that you end up with 50%, over 50% of first round quarterbacks are essentially
45:07 a bust.
45:09 To me, the answer isn't to move up to get a quarterback, just to say you moved up to
45:13 get a quarterback because there's been a ton of failures.
45:17 You only move because you're mortgaging the team's future and their today.
45:23 And let's face it, if you move up and make a big trade and you're wrong, and you don't
45:27 hit on an issue irrelevant like Purdy, you're not going to be in the job long.
45:31 You're mortgaging your job.
45:35 Now if they go through the process and they find out, "Hey, this is our next Kenny Stabler,"
45:40 then I think it doesn't matter what the price is, if it's a franchise quarterback, within
45:45 reason.
45:47 But if you're not 100% sure, you got to sit still, don't you?
45:51 I agree.
45:52 I think, and listen, even if you're 100% sure about a prospect that you want, it's not 100%
46:00 guaranteed it's going to work out.
46:01 But if you're going to move up, it has to be for somebody you have absolute conviction
46:07 over that you believe is going to be a stud for you and be a long-term answer.
46:14 There are some people that say you should draft the quarterback almost every draft until
46:20 you hit on one.
46:23 It's an interesting strategy.
46:25 It's an interesting strategy.
46:27 You can debate the merits of it.
46:29 But my concern is if you are taking a quarterback just to take one and you're reaching for one,
46:38 that ends up being a complete waste of a pick.
46:42 The picks it took to move up.
46:44 Right.
46:45 I'm just talking about if you have a high pick to begin with.
46:48 Forget about moving up.
46:49 You're moving up.
46:50 You can't move up unless you're absolutely sure this is the guy you want.
46:54 If it doesn't work out, then you look even worse.
46:57 But you have to move up thinking this is the guy that I want.
47:03 This is the guy we want.
47:04 This is our face to the franchise.
47:05 Because I just don't believe in taking a quarterback unless you have really belief in him to be
47:16 the next guy you think you can make him.
47:18 And here's an example.
47:19 I know I liken a lot of things back to the Giants because this is a team I'm a fan of,
47:23 a team out here in New York.
47:26 But a lot of fans want to move on from Daniel Jones.
47:29 And I'm ready to move on from Daniel Jones.
47:32 But at six, if they don't have a guy that they want to take at six, you got to think,
47:38 OK, how do we want to handle this?
47:40 Because just taking a quarterback at six that you don't love, then you end up with, you
47:48 might end up with another Daniel Jones situation in a few years.
47:51 You have to make sure that if you're taking a guy, it's somebody you really feel strongly
47:55 about and you think is going to be the future.
47:59 I'm going to quickly tell you this.
48:02 I continue to hear a lot of pumping of the brakes on Caleb Williams, not in the media,
48:09 but among NFL people.
48:10 It's fascinating to me, Matt.
48:12 It is.
48:13 Listen, we're three months out from the draft.
48:17 Senior Bowl is this week.
48:19 The Combine is coming up next.
48:21 We know how things change and people move up and things go up and down the ladder.
48:26 I mean, a few years ago at this time, nobody thought that Baker Mayfield was going to be
48:30 the number one overall pick.
48:33 We've seen quarterbacks that we didn't think were going to be first round guys move into
48:38 the first round after strong draft seasons or after, you know, some different things
48:44 happen.
48:45 So this is silly season.
48:46 This is when all the rumors start.
48:47 This is when, you know, teams start to move around.
48:51 It's going to be fun to watch.
48:53 We'll see how it unfolds.
48:55 I agree.
48:56 All right, everybody.
48:57 Thanks for joining us.
48:58 That's Matt Holadek from thespun.com.
48:59 I'm Hondo Carpenter from Sports Illustrated's FAN Nation Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast.
49:04 Now to all of you in the San Antonio area, I'll be in San Antonio on Tuesday, the 20th
49:11 of February.
49:13 You can check out my social media to find out where.
49:17 Join us for a meet and greet.
49:18 We'd love to see you all there.
49:19 Thanks for joining us today.
49:20 Again, thank you, Matt.
49:21 Always a pleasure.
49:22 Always a good time.
49:22 Always a pleasure, always a good time.