Education is not a privilege, and every child should benefit from it. Like all children, those with disabilities have dreams and ambitions for their future and need access to quality education, to develop their skills and realise their full potential. Watch a special episode of Samarth, a Hyundai initiative in partnership with NDTV, to empower people with disabilities.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Education is not a privilege, and every child
00:16 should benefit from it.
00:18 Like all children, children with disabilities
00:20 have ambitions and dreams for their future.
00:23 Like all children, they need quality education
00:25 to develop their skills and realize their full potential.
00:29 Disability is one of the most serious barriers
00:32 to education across the globe.
00:34 There is a need for inclusive education and curriculum
00:37 in all schools, but progress comes slowly.
00:41 And inclusive systems require changes
00:44 at all levels of society.
00:46 That is what our conversation hopes
00:48 to address and understand today as part of Samarth
00:51 by Hande, a movement for equal rights
00:55 for people with disabilities.
00:57 Let me introduce our panel.
00:59 We have with us Mary Barua, Director, Action for Autism,
01:03 a mother who has dedicated her life
01:06 to improving the lives of people with autism in India.
01:09 Radhika Alkazi, founder and managing trustee,
01:12 AASTHA, a community-based organization
01:15 that works in the urban slums.
01:18 Maneka Sharma, Director, the Sriram Schools,
01:21 a school that practiced and embraced inclusion
01:24 since they started.
01:25 And we have with us Ashwini Angadi,
01:27 founder and trustee, Ashwini Angadi Trust
01:30 and Belacoo Academy.
01:32 Ashwini has won many awards for making education
01:35 accessible for blind students.
01:38 Thank you all so much for joining us.
01:39 To begin with, Mary, I would like to start with you.
01:42 You started teaching from home,
01:44 with Neeraj, your son, and another student,
01:47 and then now with Center for Autism.
01:49 Take us through your journey,
01:50 how much has changed over the years,
01:52 and what are the existing barriers
01:54 to inclusive, integrated education?
01:57 - Well, there has been a lot of change since I started.
02:00 And the reason why I started was
02:01 because there were not that many services
02:03 for autistic children at that time.
02:06 And the services that were there
02:07 did not really understand the needs
02:09 of somebody who was a different kind of learner.
02:12 So since then, of course, there has been a lot of changes.
02:15 I would say one of the major things that has changed
02:18 is that while inclusive education is not really happening
02:23 the way we would want to see it happen,
02:26 schools are making an effort,
02:28 and there is an effort to get children
02:29 into mainstream schools,
02:31 whether they be government schools or private schools.
02:34 A lot still needs to be done.
02:36 We have, I would say, in a thousand-yard journey,
02:40 we are probably on the hundredth yard.
02:42 - Okay, so not waitable. - But I think it's good
02:43 to have made that start, considering where we were,
02:47 because when I started, there was very,
02:48 very little understanding of disability
02:50 or the understanding that anybody
02:53 with any kind of disability could at least learn.
02:56 So that awareness was not there.
02:58 - Shift has happened, but a long way to go.
02:59 - Yes. - Radhika, you've been a member
03:01 of the drafting committee of the National Policy on Children.
03:05 Can you tell us about the National Inclusive Policy?
03:07 What all does it have?
03:08 - So the National Education Policy came in 2020,
03:13 and as it was being drafted, many comments were sought,
03:18 and many members of the disability sector
03:21 gave their opinions.
03:23 So it was quite vibrant at that time,
03:25 and we were very happy when the policy actually came,
03:29 that some of the things it says,
03:32 for example, the National Education Policy
03:36 says that the 2016 Act
03:40 will be looked at in absolute totality
03:43 as far as the right to education of children
03:45 with disabilities is concerned.
03:48 And this Act talks about inclusive education.
03:52 For the first time, we have a definition
03:54 of inclusive education.
03:56 For the first time, we also have detailed work on,
04:01 points on actually what are the things we need to do,
04:05 because as Mary said just now,
04:07 the how is really the problem.
04:09 And this law gives us a lot of the how,
04:13 and the national policy accepts it unconditionally,
04:17 that is what the policy says.
04:18 - So Manika, now there is a framework,
04:21 there is a policy in place,
04:22 like talking about the how
04:23 with what we started the conversation.
04:25 Schools say we are inclusive,
04:26 and we are talking about inclusive education.
04:29 They also, they say we have the measures.
04:31 How difficult is it to make a bathroom door,
04:35 have a wider door so that a wheelchair can go in,
04:38 or ramps in school?
04:39 - It's a great question.
04:41 So at the Sriram School,
04:42 we are 35 years old now, going into 36th year.
04:45 This was something that our founder,
04:47 Mrs. Manju Bharatram was very clear
04:48 right from the very start,
04:50 that this is something that we need to embrace.
04:52 And now I think most schools are aware
04:56 that they need to embrace this,
04:57 and actually have adaptive measures.
05:00 So when it comes to curriculum,
05:02 since you asked a specific question,
05:04 we have special educators,
05:05 and then we see the needs of the children.
05:08 And then we try to adapt to where they are
05:10 in that journey, that learning curve.
05:13 All right, suddenly they will not go into business studies,
05:16 or computer sciences, or everything.
05:18 First we need to make sure
05:20 that socially they're accepted in school,
05:22 that they get all the love,
05:24 the nurturing, the hand-holding.
05:26 Most importantly, we need to make sure
05:28 that the community, the school community,
05:31 embraces this very closely.
05:33 So let me give you an example.
05:34 At the Sriram School, we have a member on the PTA
05:37 who represents all the children,
05:39 and all the parents who come with different needs.
05:42 We also have a member on the student council,
05:45 because you have to walk the talk.
05:48 So if our student council has one rep student
05:52 who is voted by the children,
05:54 then the students in the assembly also see
05:56 that okay, here is a school that recognizes
05:59 and appreciates, and that we can also take charge
06:01 and take responsibility.
06:03 Besides that, infrastructural changes,
06:06 for me that's a no-brainer.
06:07 I think from toilets, to ramps, to accessibility,
06:11 to opportunities for children, to training for teachers,
06:14 all become very much a part of our school's DNA.
06:17 - I think which are very, very important,
06:19 and we are gonna be talking about also government schools,
06:21 and you know how in urban slums,
06:22 the work I think, Radhika, you're doing,
06:24 talking about private schools as well as government schools.
06:26 Ashwini, you studied in Shri Ramana Maharishi Academy
06:29 for the blind till grade 10, right?
06:31 And then your life changed once you went
06:34 to a mainstream college.
06:35 You faced many challenges once you were
06:37 in the mainstream campus, and today you're working
06:39 on creating more inclusive education,
06:42 inclusive schools and communities.
06:44 Tell us about inclusive curriculums.
06:47 What really is it all about?
06:49 - Correct.
06:51 See, our trust is mainly for an inclusive education,
06:56 where we have both visually impaired
06:58 and non-visually impaired students study together,
07:02 play together, fight together, eat together,
07:04 and they are not sympathetic on each other.
07:09 They are empathetic.
07:11 So our curriculum is quite similar,
07:15 but the study materials are different.
07:18 You see, for instance, like even the non-visually impaired
07:22 child also study history, and the visually impaired child
07:24 also study history, but the non-visually impaired student
07:29 make tactile map for visually impaired kid in our school.
07:35 That's how the inclusiveness is going to start,
07:39 as these panelists told.
07:43 So the inclusiveness starts from the beginning,
07:46 and that's how we have arranged the curriculum.
07:49 And the other thing is our visually impaired student
07:52 is going to teach our non-visually impaired student music.
07:57 So like this that we have done,
08:00 and we have creative science models
08:02 for visually impaired students,
08:04 and that are trained and done
08:07 by our non-visually impaired students.
08:09 Like, see, when I was in childhood days,
08:12 during my childhood days, I used to just buy hard the things
08:15 like the kidney, kidney is a temporary storage,
08:19 like it stores urine and everything.
08:22 So now we are making in our school
08:25 that everything has to be touched
08:28 and understand the things and learn the things.
08:31 It's not, you know, mug up and buy hard the things.
08:35 I am so proud, I'm so happy that
08:38 my non-visually impaired students
08:40 are not sympathetic towards visually impaired students.
08:43 Hey, you go and take, you go and drink water for yourself.
08:47 I'll not help you.
08:48 I'll just tell you the direction.
08:50 That's what, this is, these are the words
08:52 the non-visually impaired students
08:54 tell to visually impaired student.
08:55 Initial days, our teachers and other staffs
08:59 used to help visually impaired students,
09:01 but our non-visually impaired made
09:03 visually impaired students so independent.
09:05 - Mary, you have dedicated your life to studying, teaching,
09:07 as well as creating awareness
09:08 about children with special needs.
09:10 Specifically, I want to ask you
09:12 as an educator for over 30 years,
09:14 we do know there's a lack of trained educators
09:16 in our country.
09:17 How important is it,
09:19 the role of psychology as well as trained teachers?
09:22 - See, the role of psychology is important, of course,
09:26 because teaching is any case based on psychology, right?
09:29 But I think what you really need
09:31 are teachers who are trained.
09:33 I would say more attitudinal training than anything else.
09:39 I think that's the really crux of it,
09:41 because you often have teachers who are trained
09:43 maybe in teaching students who are blind
09:46 or teaching students who are, have, you know, autism
09:49 or a learning disability.
09:51 And given the situation in our country,
09:53 that's the one teacher who has to teach everybody.
09:55 And very often, while they have learned
09:58 to teach children with one condition or another condition,
10:03 the attitudinal change has not often been addressed.
10:07 And that really is the crux of the whole thing.
10:10 So, you know, we may not always have teachers
10:13 who are able to teach all kinds of disabilities,
10:15 but if you have a teacher who's sensitive,
10:18 who tries to understand a different learning style,
10:22 and who will, like Ashwini just said about her school,
10:25 teach in ways that are experiential.
10:28 Because when you do experiential teaching,
10:31 you are not only teaching the learner who's blind,
10:35 you're teaching the learner who's autistic,
10:38 you're teaching the learner who has dyslexia,
10:41 you're teaching the typically developing learner as well.
10:45 So, you know, helping children to think,
10:47 teaching them in an experiential manner,
10:50 those are the things that are really, really important.
10:52 Because we all realize that given our country,
10:55 of a billion plus,
10:57 and the number of learners with disabilities there are,
11:00 there will not be in the coming years enough teachers
11:03 for every kind of specific disability,
11:06 to teach in mainstream schools.
11:08 So we need teachers who have that sensitivity to teach.
11:12 - Radhika, clearly there is a need
11:13 for an individualized approach,
11:15 rather than a one size fits all approach.
11:17 That's what we've been talking.
11:18 You work with slum children, you know, with disabilities.
11:21 What are the specific needs that are required
11:24 and how can we bring inclusivity here?
11:26 - You know, when we started about 30 years ago,
11:30 we used to struggle to get four to five kids into school,
11:34 into the government schools.
11:36 Today, I'll say in our organization,
11:38 we know about 40, 50 kids are going into school
11:43 at the right age.
11:44 Earlier children with disabilities would go into schools
11:47 when they were much older,
11:49 because they would come out much older.
11:51 But although this change has happened,
11:55 there are still many, many barriers that haven't changed.
11:59 For example, getting to school.
12:02 You know, the child who is even in a wheelchair,
12:07 how do they get through those narrow lanes
12:10 and how do they get to school?
12:12 So getting to school is a big, big barrier
12:16 and we need for the government to make,
12:21 you know, transport available for children
12:24 to get to schools.
12:26 That's one.
12:27 The other thing is, very often there are no caretakers
12:32 in schools, in government schools.
12:34 So mothers are having to still sit in the schools
12:38 with their children.
12:39 They are having to feed the child.
12:42 They take the child to the toilet.
12:44 When the midday meal is given,
12:46 it is the mother who has to take the child and see.
12:49 Now that becomes very, very difficult for most parents
12:54 in the urban slums because they're also working.
12:57 There are other children to take care of.
13:00 And that's another big issue.
13:02 The third issue is really what hasn't changed is
13:06 how does this child study and study well?
13:09 Reasonable accommodation, the little changes that you need.
13:13 All those things are still lacking,
13:16 even though the children, many more are in schools just now.
13:20 - I think very, very important points.
13:22 On that note, we're going to be taking a very short break.
13:24 How can schools be made more inclusive,
13:27 the role of parenting and a lot more when we come back.
13:29 So stay tuned.
13:30 (upbeat music)
13:33 Welcome back.
13:55 You're watching a special show, Samarth by Hande,
13:57 and we're talking about inclusive education.
14:01 Maneka, according to the RT,
14:03 which is the Right to Education Act,
14:05 every school needs to have specific teachers
14:08 for the children learning with disability.
14:10 But very often we hear that,
14:12 forget about the number of teachers
14:13 which they should be having,
14:15 children are denied admission.
14:16 Very often they're not invited for birthday parties.
14:18 In fact, they're never invited for birthday parties,
14:20 picnics, playgrounds, public spaces.
14:23 They face this challenge.
14:25 How can we bring about sensitization,
14:27 awareness among peers in creating
14:29 abstentions, empathy, and understanding?
14:32 - Orientations that we have for parents, all right,
14:35 where we spell out very clearly that,
14:36 look, this is who we are, and this is where you belong,
14:39 and now you're a part of this community.
14:41 When we have student assemblies,
14:42 we just make sure that all children get equal opportunities.
14:46 So be it annual functions, be it student assemblies,
14:49 be it sports day, you know,
14:51 they're recognized, they're awarded.
14:53 And we have lots of events in school
14:54 which are centered around the children.
14:56 So, you know, just for skill development,
14:58 we have something, an annual event,
15:00 which is called Shri Saksham, all right,
15:02 where we invite students from all over Delhi and NCR
15:05 who come, who display what they have made,
15:08 little, little things made of cane baskets
15:11 or Christmas cards and things like that,
15:12 where recognition happens.
15:14 As far as the parents go,
15:17 I think parents are very well aware,
15:18 and again, we spell it out in our induction and orientation,
15:21 that all children have to be invited for birthday parties.
15:24 So it's a very sensitive approach.
15:26 And we come with empathy,
15:28 that, you know, that empathetic quotient is very high
15:31 in every educator in the Shri Ram school,
15:33 even in schools, private schools like ours.
15:35 I think all of us need to say that,
15:38 okay, we are here for our children.
15:39 - Absolutely.
15:40 - And if any parent is watching this,
15:43 they would know that we know what they do
15:45 and we want our child there,
15:46 and you can't close admissions to children
15:48 with who are different.
15:49 - Absolutely, you're not supposed to.
15:50 - You're not supposed to, you know.
15:51 So even at our school reception,
15:53 whilst we have the regular receptionist,
15:56 we also have, at every campus,
15:59 three ladies who aren't visually impaired,
16:01 and who are helping the other children.
16:04 And similarly, we have hired our own children
16:08 who have come back to us,
16:09 and we've hired them in roles in school,
16:12 as teacher assistants, as lab assistants, in the library.
16:15 So all the children, the community watches.
16:18 - Ashwini, we've spoken about the role of teachers,
16:20 we've spoken about curriculum, talking about parents.
16:22 They play a very, very important role.
16:24 Could you highlight the challenges that a parent faces
16:27 when it comes to inclusive education?
16:29 - The first and foremost challenges that they face is,
16:33 see, usually, in my trust, the parents are,
16:37 the children are from rural background families,
16:39 and poor background families.
16:41 And even parents, they don't even have their education.
16:44 So, their lacking is the guidance.
16:48 They are misguided many times.
16:51 Means, they tell, no, don't send to inclusive school,
16:56 because they'll just come and sit,
16:58 they'll just go to school and sit,
17:00 and they have food, if they're in government school,
17:02 and they'll come back.
17:04 You put them in a special school, they'll be very good.
17:06 So, they're misguided like that.
17:09 The other thing is, yeah,
17:11 they have lack of awareness about inclusive education.
17:15 And first of all, they're not educated.
17:19 And how will they know about inclusive education?
17:22 So, these are the two things,
17:24 and lack of network between each other parents.
17:28 See, they'll have, we have both kind of parents.
17:32 Parents who are educated,
17:33 and they put their child in inclusive education.
17:37 Parent of a child with disability who are not educated,
17:41 but they don't have, you know,
17:44 they don't want to put them in an inclusive school.
17:47 So, these are the, first thing is lack of awareness,
17:51 lack of guidance, and the lack of network.
17:53 - So, I think those are very important points,
17:55 lack of awareness, lack of guidance.
17:57 You know, well, that is a parent's challenge.
17:58 Mary, I want to ask you something.
18:00 Another challenge with educators,
18:01 special educators face is,
18:03 parents, you know, living in denial
18:04 that their child has special needs.
18:06 How does a parent realize or understand
18:09 that their child needs, you know, has special needs?
18:12 - See, I know that very often parents,
18:15 when they first find out that a child
18:17 has any kind of a disabling condition,
18:20 it's very hard for most parents,
18:22 I would say 99% of the parents, to accept that.
18:25 And that's not surprising,
18:28 because to be honest, in our society,
18:30 if we find out that somebody has a disability,
18:33 how do we treat them?
18:37 I mean, if we are very, very honest,
18:38 supposing if today my brother came and said,
18:42 "I want to marry a girl who is a wheelchair user,"
18:45 how many families would happily say,
18:47 "Oh, how lovely, we'll welcome the girl in."
18:50 Or, "My daughter wants to marry an autistic young man."
18:54 Right?
18:55 So, you know, we live in a society
18:57 where disability continues to be stigmatized,
19:00 whether we like it or not.
19:01 That's a fact, right?
19:03 And we work with very grassroots people,
19:04 so we know the kind of stigmatization that is there.
19:07 And the parents come from that background.
19:10 For them, their relatives are saying,
19:12 "Okay, what is it?"
19:14 So they don't want to acknowledge it.
19:15 Their neighbors are saying, right?
19:17 So people around you are constantly
19:21 stigmatizing disability, so it's hard for them.
19:23 So they want them to go into a regular school,
19:26 so there is that aura of regularness.
19:29 Sometimes, even if they know
19:31 the child is not learning anything,
19:33 they'd rather the kid go to a regular school,
19:35 because they can say,
19:36 "My child is going to school, he's going to class for free."
19:39 That is what we need to change.
19:41 We want them to want to go to send their child
19:43 to a regular school so that the child will learn.
19:45 Not just the society.
19:47 Yeah, but that is what happens.
19:49 So the acceptance, I think,
19:50 is what you said is a core problem.
19:52 Yes.
19:53 Because of the stigma.
19:54 And then parents are having difficulty accepting.
19:56 I think we have to be very understanding and say,
19:59 you know, I understand that you're having a difficulty,
20:02 but you know what, if you do this, it'll help your child.
20:04 So that's really what we need to move towards.
20:07 Absolutely. I think, again, a very important point.
20:09 Radhika, reframing inclusive education
20:11 as a shared responsibility.
20:13 How do we all play a role as a community?
20:16 What role can we all play?
20:18 You know, they say it takes a village
20:20 to bring up a child.
20:22 Yeah, so it is everybody's responsibility.
20:26 It is not just the parent's responsibility.
20:29 At present, we tend to put a whole lot of responsibility
20:33 on the parent and that family
20:35 to navigate all the systems,
20:38 which is very tough.
20:40 Communities, groups, play a very, very important part in,
20:45 you know, when I say acceptance,
20:48 I mean, I really want to say this,
20:51 disability is part of human diversity.
20:54 So it's not, it's something that everybody in a,
20:58 if you're talking education, the whole ecosystem,
21:01 right from the administrator of a school
21:04 to all the other parents, to the children,
21:07 to the community that is all around,
21:10 there has to be an understanding.
21:13 And I won't use the word acceptance
21:16 because acceptance really means
21:17 that somebody else is accepting.
21:20 That's not what the child or the parent needs
21:23 because it is a right.
21:24 Yes, it is.
21:25 To, for the child to be educated in our country.
21:30 Absolutely.
21:31 Thank you all so much for joining us.
21:33 We need to ensure that children with disabilities
21:35 have equal access to inclusive, quality education,
21:39 because more than anything, it is their fundamental right
21:41 and has a direct impact on the progress
21:43 of a nation and its economy.
21:45 Thanks so much for watching Samarth by Hyundai,
21:48 a movement for inclusivity, diversity, and accessibility.
21:51 (upbeat music)
21:54 (upbeat music)
21:56 (upbeat music)
21:59 (thudding)