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00:00 [MUSIC]
00:10 >> What film or series lit your fuse as a young man and
00:14 made you have to tell stories on screen?
00:17 >> It was actually less the series, it was more the character.
00:21 The character that Blair Underwood played in LA Law was the one that lit my fuse.
00:28 And it was primarily because my father, who was my hero and
00:33 a very typical Nigerian father, wanted his sons.
00:39 He had three sons, he wanted a lawyer, a doctor, and an engineer.
00:42 And I had picked the lawyer, but deep down I didn't really want to be a lawyer.
00:51 I was kind of doing it to please my dad.
00:53 And then along came Blair Underwood as this suave lawyer who was,
01:00 in court cases, doing a brand of what I would deem to be performance.
01:07 And so it was this weird hybrid of, he was a lawyer, but
01:12 there's also an actor playing a lawyer.
01:15 He's suave, he's someone aspirational,
01:18 he's someone who I'm immediately gravitating towards on the screen.
01:22 So he was a formative, that character was formative for me early on.
01:29 And I sort of became more drawn to what Blair Underwood did for
01:33 a living than what his character was doing eventually.
01:37 So that I would say was fairly formative for me.
01:42 >> So you're saying you were a bit of disappointment to your dad?
01:45 >> Yes, for a long time I was, to be honest,
01:49 a confusion for my dad until he eventually came and
01:54 saw me play Henry VI at the Royal Shakespeare Company.
01:59 And I think similarly, in terms of what Blair Underwood's character represented
02:05 for me, for my dad, him seeing me play the King of England was another moment of,
02:10 whoa, I'm seeing something I haven't really seen before.
02:15 It's showing me what's possible, and
02:17 now I can sort of lean into a future that's slightly different than the past I
02:21 had seen.
02:22 That's what the character in LA Lowe represented for me.
02:26 It definitely represented that for my dad, and
02:28 he became my number one fan after that.
02:31 >> So now, as you were on your way up, making your way as an actor,
02:36 what movie or series did you watch that was so good, maybe it was a performance,
02:41 it made you question, man, can I rise to this level?
02:46 >> Yeah, that's a very easy question for me to answer.
02:48 It was Daniel Day-Lewis, In My Left Foot.
02:51 I remember watching that film when I was quite young, and
02:54 I think it was even pre me really thinking of becoming an actor.
03:00 But I do remember being blown away by that film as directed by Jim Sheridan.
03:08 Being 100% convinced that whoever was playing that character
03:15 was indeed disabled in the way that Daniel Day-Lewis was playing him.
03:21 When I think I saw an interview with Daniel Day-Lewis where
03:26 he didn't suffer from that affliction.
03:30 And I simply couldn't draw the line between the person,
03:37 the able-bodied person I saw speaking and the character I had watched.
03:43 And I couldn't even equate what I had seen as a performance.
03:49 It was a being, it was just an unadulterated
03:55 glob of truth is what I had seen in that film.
04:03 And it remains the bar for me.
04:06 I mean, Daniel Day-Lewis is my favorite actor of all time.
04:10 My actual favorite film of all time is There Will Be Blood.
04:12 I think his performance in that is also transcendent.
04:16 But yeah, My Left Foot was and still is the film I go, that's the bar.
04:21 And I just don't know that there is surmounting it.
04:26 But I'm certainly gonna die trying.
04:30 >> Yeah, he really throws himself into a role like that.
04:34 And so do you take from that the idea of carrying your work
04:39 after the director says cut?
04:42 >> I did take from that and directly from Daniel Day-Lewis himself.
04:47 I had a scene in Lincoln where he and I had a scene together at the beginning
04:52 of the movie still remains one of the formative moments of my career.
04:57 And similarly, you could just tell that he was
05:01 in a zone that can only be described as Abraham Lincoln.
05:05 And this was before I had had the privilege of playing Dr. King in Selma.
05:11 And just observing some of his process, some of the way he was,
05:17 some of what was clearly his dedication to that process was definitely
05:24 the bar and the template for me going into doing Selma.
05:30 So yes, I stayed in character for the three months of that shoot.
05:35 I don't know the specifics of his method, but
05:38 the parts of it that worked for me were staying in the accent,
05:43 staying in the zone, immersing myself completely in who he was,
05:48 talking to everyone and anyone who may have encountered him.
05:53 Just my own version of complete immersion, but
05:56 I saw that firsthand when I did Lincoln with Daniel.
06:00 And so yeah, he is the golden standard.
06:02 >> So now, what first gave you the confidence that you were on the right path
06:07 and you did belong?
06:09 >> I would have to attribute that to three different ladies.
06:14 One is a lady called Susie Graham Adriani,
06:17 who was the director at a youth theater I was a part of when I was 15.
06:24 And I was only part of this drama group because I really fancied a girl
06:30 who attended it, and I just kept going for the sake of her.
06:33 And then this fateful day, the three boys who were being groomed to play
06:38 the lead in this show we were doing were all stuck on a subway strike situation.
06:45 In London, a tube strike as we would call it there.
06:48 And she just put me in just to keep the rehearsal going.
06:52 And I guess I did something that made her eventually cast me in the lead.
06:57 And that was the first time someone believed in me in a way that I just simply
07:02 did not believe in myself.
07:04 And then it was my theater studies teacher in high school, Jill Foster,
07:09 who after I had graduated and I was literally on my way to going to university
07:15 to do law to please my dad.
07:18 She stopped me again at a tube station and said, David,
07:21 I wouldn't say this to everyone, but I think you really have what it takes
07:25 to be an actor and do this professionally.
07:28 And she helps me with all of my drama school auditions,
07:31 which led to me having a scholarship to Lambda,
07:35 the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art.
07:38 And then the most recent one who's also formative for me,
07:42 another wonderful lady is Oprah Winfrey, who I expressed my dream,
07:47 my desire, my ambition to play Dr. King.
07:51 And I said, she believes that for me and that she would do everything she could
07:56 to help me with that dream.
07:57 And that's what led to her coming on to Selma as a producer.
08:00 And I think is what got us the green light.
08:03 But when I first met her, it was on The Butler.
08:07 And she said to me, I see something in you,
08:12 the likes of which I know was in me 30 years ago, and I'm going to help you.
08:18 And she made good on that.
08:20 So those three ladies, I simply wouldn't be here talking to you, Mike,
08:24 without them.
08:24 Now, what would you say was the biggest obstacle that you had to overcome
08:29 to allow you to turn these projects that influenced you
08:32 into your own language as a performer?
08:35 Growing up in the UK, we produce really great actors.
08:41 And it comes out of a tradition of theater.
08:44 And when I went to drama school, the modus operandi was still,
08:50 you go to drama school, if you're lucky enough,
08:53 you're part of a rep company where you play smaller roles to begin with,
08:57 and maybe bigger roles.
08:58 Eventually, television may come down the road, maybe then film.
09:03 It's quite different now.
09:05 But it was very much a craft that you invested in with grunt work.
09:13 And there was no notion of the kind of success
09:18 that certainly we can equate with being an actor in Hollywood,
09:23 growing up and studying at a conservatoire in the UK.
09:29 And I think the biggest thing I overcame
09:32 was as formative and useful as that was as a mindset, what
09:40 wasn't encouraged as much is being a self-starter when it comes
09:44 to the stories you want to tell.
09:46 And I guess what we would call being a producer.
09:51 I never had that thought growing up in the UK.
09:56 It was never something that was discussed
09:58 during my drama school training.
10:01 It is something I only saw in an actor like Kenneth Branagh
10:06 at that time.
10:06 He was literally the only actor, certainly
10:09 within the British constellation, who I saw writing, directing,
10:15 doing things outside of his quote unquote "lane."
10:18 You saw that with his film Henry V. You saw it with Hamlet.
10:22 You saw it with several of the productions.
10:24 He was the generator for those.
10:26 And so I would say that the biggest obstacle I overcame
10:30 was a mindset of going from being purely an actor in a purist
10:37 sense to really being the generator for the kind
10:40 of projects and roles I wanted to see
10:45 come into existence.
10:46 And I realized would not if I waited around hoping that
10:52 someone else would generate them.
10:54 So I would say that's been the biggest driver for me.
10:57 So whether it be Lawman Bass Reeves or Selma or a United
11:02 Kingdom or Nightingale, some of the work
11:05 I've done that I'm most proud of,
11:07 they were projects I helped push up the hill.
11:11 And I would say that was the biggest shift
11:13 and the most formative one.
11:14 And the After is obviously one of those.
11:17 It's shortlisted for Best Live Action Short.
11:21 What burned you to tell that story?
11:25 I've had my own grief journey.
11:28 I lost my mom in 2017.
11:30 I lost my dad in 2020.
11:33 And they were huge, huge figures in my life.
11:39 And so losing them both within a three-year period
11:43 was devastating, continues to be something I'm processing.
11:48 And so when Miss Anne Harriman approached me
11:51 with a story that essentially dares
11:56 to look at this very messy, complicated, personal terrain,
12:03 which is grief and mourning and digging yourself out of it,
12:08 it terrified me.
12:09 And that is almost always the reason I lean into anything
12:14 that I do, is that it scares me a bit.
12:16 But also, not unlike Daniel Day-Lewis in My Left Foot
12:22 and what I talked about, that truth that is
12:27 undeniable and indisputable, I gravitate towards that.
12:32 I felt like what he did in that film was just true.
12:36 And I felt and feel like Miss Anne Harriman is an artist,
12:41 whether you look at his photography
12:43 or you talk to him as a man, he is just true.
12:46 And I felt that the emotions exhibited in the script
12:49 were true.
12:50 And so that's what made me lean in.
12:53 And I'm deeply proud of the film because it
12:57 has given so many people license to share their grief story
13:01 and license to just admit that four, five years down the road
13:06 from losing someone, they are still dealing with it.
13:09 And sometimes our society is not very good
13:12 at allowing people to do that.
13:13 So now my last question is about Bass Reeves.
13:16 It's basically, why playing this man who
13:20 was reputed to be an inspiration for the Lone Ranger
13:24 and did all this amazing stuff that's hidden in history,
13:27 why was all this so important to you?
13:31 I said this to Paramount severally
13:33 during the course of trying to get the show greenlit
13:35 and even while we were making it,
13:37 is that this is unprecedented.
13:40 This is history in the making, not just
13:44 in terms of what we're showing, but the existence of the show.
13:49 I simply can't think of a production as expansive
13:56 that highlights Black people in this era,
14:01 certainly the Civil War, outside of the film Glory.
14:05 And that film really centers Matthew Broderick.
14:08 We think of Denzel, we think of Morgan Freeman,
14:10 we think of the late, great Andre Brower,
14:13 but the film actually centers Matthew Broderick.
14:16 So a show of this nature with this production value,
14:20 with this scale, with this focus hasn't existed.
14:25 And so I remember when Chad Feehan, our showrunner
14:29 and creator, showed me the first rough cut of a trailer
14:34 for the show when we were up about a month or so
14:37 into shooting.
14:38 I cried where I stood because I knew these were images
14:44 I hadn't seen before.
14:45 But it's another thing to see it.
14:47 And you cannot be what you cannot see.
14:51 The reason my dad couldn't understand the notion of me
14:55 wanting to be an actor is he saw no evidence of success
14:59 there for someone like me.
15:02 There is a reason why historically a character
15:05 like Bass Reeves has been kept out of the history books,
15:08 kept out of the schools.
15:09 There is something so empowering and powerful
15:13 about that imagery, about that character,
15:15 what it means culturally speaking,
15:19 and what it makes you feel as a Black person
15:22 in this country, in the world generally,
15:25 when you see that.
15:26 Because he's not just what we've seen a lot of,
15:30 which is purely a slave who's being subjugated
15:34 and browbeaten.
15:35 He is someone to aspire to be like.
15:38 He is a lawman.
15:39 He is a leader.
15:41 He is a hero.
15:42 He is a man on a white horse coming in knight-like
15:47 and saving the day.
15:49 That just doesn't exist.
15:53 And certainly not tied to history.
15:56 Maybe we've seen some of it when it comes to fantasy,
15:59 but it's different when it's actual history.
16:02 And so La Monica was definitely an inspiration for me
16:05 while making the show, 'cause I loved 1883.
16:09 I loved his character in it.
16:12 And I said to him,
16:13 "I want to take the baton you're passing to me
16:16 "and run with it in a way that I hope you are proud of,
16:19 "because this is ground that you have broken
16:23 "that I'm stepping into."
16:24 Because in many ways, for a lot of the audience,
16:27 he's, in that show, a precursor
16:30 to what we are able to do with Bas Reeves.
16:32 And I just feel so blessed that the show now exists
16:37 as yet another evidence of what is possible
16:41 and who Black people were and are
16:44 in relation to the American story.
16:47 - It's a terrific first season.
16:49 And I just remember first running into your work
16:52 on the MI5 series.
16:54 - MI5, yeah.
16:55 - And you were such a sweet guy,
16:58 and then I watched Bas Reeves,
17:02 and man, what a badass.
17:05 [laughing]
17:07 I can't tell you how impressed I was
17:09 at all the work you did in this show
17:11 and your range as an actor, which you get to show,
17:13 which is the main thing that an actor wants in his career.
17:17 - It is, it is.
17:18 And going back to your question
17:20 about what the bigger obstacle I overcame,
17:24 I truly believe it would be impossible
17:28 to show that range if I was just waiting by the phone,
17:31 because our industry tends to be in a hurry
17:35 to box you and say, "Oh, you do that thing.
17:38 Let's see more of that."
17:39 I cannot tell you how many civil rights movies
17:43 and roles I got after, or I was sent after I did Selma.
17:47 And, you know, again, going back to some of my heroes,
17:52 whether it be Daniel Day-Lewis or Denzel Washington
17:56 or Meryl Streep or De Niro,
17:58 you look at the characters,
18:01 the range of characters they get to play.
18:04 Christian Bale is another one, Jeffrey Wright.
18:08 You know, that to me is what an actor is.
18:11 I have no interest in playing myself.
18:14 I want to constantly go on the journey
18:18 of trying to find these different aspects of humanity
18:22 to experience and to exhibit.
18:25 And a lot of that has come through my ability
18:28 to create and produce my own work.
18:32 Tom Cruise taught me that.
18:33 I asked him how he has managed to maintain
18:36 this unprecedented movie star career of his.
18:40 And he said, "David, create, create, create."
18:43 Since I did Taps, every other film I've done since then,
18:46 I had some kind of hand in creating.
18:49 And I took that and I ran with it.
18:51 And I went, if that's Tom Cruise,
18:54 then I think that being part of the creation of the work
18:59 and the curation of your path and your career,
19:07 I think that is the path to having
19:10 certainly the kind of career I aspire to.
19:12 And so I'm just very glad and feel very blessed
19:15 that I'm on that journey.
19:16 (upbeat music)
19:18 [BLANK_AUDIO]