Unpacked Podcast S1: Can You Really Travel Like a Local?

AFAR

In this episode of the podcast, Unpacked, by AFAR, host Aislyn Greene, a deputy editor at AFAR is joined by writers and researchers Eric Weiner, Jini Reddy, and Dr. Anu Taranath to dig into the question: Is it really possible to travel like a local?  Read the story here: https://rebrand.ly/90gb6cy  Subscribe to Unpacked: ** Apple Podcasts ** https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unpacked-by-afar/id1625156097  ** Megaphone ** https://megaphone.link/AFAR6756233083  References: Revenge travel: How vacation vengeance became a thing - CNN https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/revenge-travel-explainer/index.html  ---- CONNECT WITH AFAR Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com  Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters  Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/afarmedia

Transcript

00:00 Hey, you're a thoughtful traveler, and we're a thoughtful destination.

00:06 In Asheville, we treasure our natural and wild places here in the stunning Blue Ridge

00:10 Mountains, and we appreciate visitors who share our values of stewardship and sustainability.

00:16 We invite you to explore the cultural legacies shaped by these high mountain peaks.

00:21 Be our guest.

00:22 Together, we can share adventures and preserve the natural beauty of Asheville.

00:27 Learn more at exploreasheville.com.

00:28 This is Unpacked.

00:37 I'm Aislinn Greene, a deputy editor here at AFAR, and today we're digging into what

00:42 might seem like a very benign topic.

00:45 Is it really possible to travel like a local?

00:55 Now you might be wondering, if this is such a benign subject, why talk about it at all?

01:01 That's a great question, one I have asked myself even as I've been reporting this

01:05 story.

01:06 But here's the context.

01:08 I've worked at AFAR for eight years, and for much of that time I've been steeped

01:13 in this idea that we should try to travel like a local as much as possible.

01:17 Sounds good, right?

01:19 I had a general notion of what this meant to me and pretty much believed in it.

01:24 I still do to some extent.

01:26 But about a year into the pandemic, in that first optimistic wave about travel's recovery,

01:32 author Eric Weiner wrote an essay for AFAR that poked a hole in that belief.

01:37 Eric is the author of several books, including The Socrates Express and Search of Life Lessons

01:42 from Dead Philosophers.

01:44 And Eric's essay for us was about how we could make travel more of a force for good

01:48 as we emerge from the pandemic.

01:50 In that essay, he said this.

01:53 And before you applaud my vocal range, yes, this is actually Eric reading.

01:58 When we travel, we usually expand ourselves, not by turning inward, but by interacting

02:04 with other people.

02:05 Do we see only differences, language, cuisine, customs, or do we also identify commonalities,

02:12 shared humanity?

02:14 This is empathy.

02:15 If we don't empathize at least a little with those we encounter, we never really see them.

02:21 Empathizing with other people doesn't mean becoming them.

02:24 I know it's fashionable to brag that you travel like a local.

02:28 No, you don't.

02:30 You travel like a foreigner.

02:32 That's because you are one.

02:34 And that's okay.

02:35 The empathetic traveler doesn't try to fit in.

02:38 She knows that is impossible and that there are advantages to seeing places at an angle.

02:45 One of the best books about American democracy was written by a Frenchman, Alexis de Tocqueville.

02:50 This is no coincidence.

02:52 An observant outsider often sees what insiders do not.

02:57 I was really taken by this idea of the impossibility of actually traveling like a local.

03:03 And it got me thinking, what do we really mean when we say we want to travel like a

03:07 local?

03:08 What are we aiming for and what do we lose if we don't explore and maybe even challenge

03:13 that idea?

03:15 So in this episode, we're going to do that.

03:17 We're going to hear more from Eric and from a couple of other writers and researchers.

03:22 We'll share tips on how to better connect in a new place, how to embrace our outsider

03:26 status, and basically how asking ourselves these big questions can make our trips more

03:31 fulfilling and make us better guests in the world.

03:35 But first, what exactly does this concept mean?

03:39 The phrase traveling like a local, what does that mean?

03:43 It means maybe staying in locally owned accommodation, taking public transport, buying food from

03:50 markets.

03:53 But I think it tends to suggest that you're traveling independently.

03:57 And I think backpackers can sometimes feel that they have a monopoly on traveling authentically

04:04 because they're doing it in a low budget way.

04:07 But I don't think that's necessarily how the locals do it.

04:11 Some locals don't, for example, take public transport.

04:14 They own cars.

04:15 They live quite middle class lives.

04:17 Some locals are impoverished and eating very basic food is not a lifestyle choice.

04:23 So I think local can be interpreted in many ways.

04:28 That's Ginny Reddy, a London based author and journalist whose most recent book, Wanderland,

04:33 was shortlisted for a number of awards.

04:35 Ginny is extremely well traveled.

04:38 She's been to more than 60 countries and always searches for a deep connection with the places

04:42 and people she meets.

04:44 Ginny went on to say that for many of us, when we say we want to travel like a local,

04:49 the goal is to be a more conscious traveler.

04:51 And I think she's right.

04:53 There are good intentions behind this.

04:55 But before we dig into that a bit more, we have to face the travel elephant in the room.

05:01 It might even be what inspired the whole travel like a local thing, the tourist versus traveler

05:06 dilemma.

05:08 Because let's face it, the word tourist can have negative connotations.

05:12 Eric Weiner sees this as a kind of reverse travel snobbery.

05:17 It's really a reaction to being labeled a tourist, right?

05:21 Nobody wants to be called a tourist.

05:23 Everyone thinks of themselves as a traveler.

05:25 You know, the other person, they're the tourist.

05:28 I'm a traveler.

05:30 It's like those studies where a majority of people believe they are an above average driver,

05:36 which is statistically impossible.

05:38 Somebody has to be the below average traveler.

05:41 Somebody has to be the tourist.

05:43 It made me think like, why this desire to travel like a local and to go through all

05:49 this expense and trouble to travel and then pretend like you were just born there and have

05:55 been living there all your life?

05:57 That struck me as kind of silly.

05:59 Eric went on to say that at least for some American travelers, this impulse can stem

06:05 from the image of the "ugly American abroad."

06:09 You know, someone who travels far from home but wants things to feel like home.

06:13 Now that's quite a stereotype, and of course it's not always true.

06:17 But it makes sense that some travelers would see that and want an alternate path.

06:23 And so along came the idea of traveling like a local, the antidote to the stereotypical

06:27 tourist.

06:28 And it's not all bad.

06:29 There are many benefits to exploring off the beaten path.

06:33 We're more likely to support grassroots businesses and locally owned ventures.

06:37 We may be giving back to communities in some way, or it may inspire us to pick up Duolingo

06:42 and learn the language before we go.

06:45 But ultimately, it's an impossible task.

06:48 It sure would be nice if we were able to travel like a local, because then we could rid ourselves

06:54 of the anxieties of not being a local.

06:57 The thing though, is that no matter how much I want to travel like a local, I'm not a local.

07:05 Wouldn't it be better for us to actually just embrace the fact that we are not locals?

07:10 And rather than want to travel like a local, why don't I travel like a better traveler?

07:16 That to me seems more compelling.

07:19 That's Dr. Anu Tadanath, a Seattle-based educator and author of the book, "Guilt Trips, Mindful

07:24 Travel in an Unequal World."

07:28 She's one of the writers of the unpacked column that accompanies this podcast.

07:31 We'll share links in the show notes.

07:33 Dr. Anu is also a speaker and consultant and works deeply around issues of racial equity,

07:39 gender, identity, and more.

07:41 She went on to remind me that this goal is also impossible because there's no such thing

07:46 as one type of local.

07:49 It's quite nuanced because let's also remember that there are a variety of locals in any

07:55 locality.

07:57 And some locals are like tourists, thoughtful about the garbage they produce, about the

08:04 footprint that they offer the earth, about the relationships that they cultivate with

08:10 people.

08:11 There are also locals who are less interested in doing that and are just trying to accumulate

08:16 and be greedy like lots of people all over the world.

08:20 So this idealization of the local perspective, that needs to be nuanced in some ways, right?

08:29 All tourists aren't painted from the same brush.

08:33 All locals are not painted from the same brush.

08:37 Humans are complex.

08:38 We're contradictory.

08:39 We're wonderful.

08:40 We're flawed.

08:41 We are all of these things.

08:44 So this kind of putting on a pedestal of the local, again, good intention, well intention.

08:51 I see why we do that.

08:53 And I'm not sure that it accurately holds together all the stories that any locality

09:00 might offer.

09:01 It's important to ask ourselves, what do we mean by local?

09:05 And is our local their local?

09:08 This is often an issue of perception.

09:11 And perception has a lot to do with our own socioeconomic backgrounds and the socioeconomic

09:16 backgrounds of the people we're encountering.

09:19 In addition, there are often racial and identity realities at play.

09:23 Not everyone is welcomed the same way around the world.

09:26 Ginny explains.

09:28 I think the whole issue of identity really plays into how we experience a place when

09:35 we go abroad.

09:36 I think it depends on the specific dynamics between yourself and your upbringing and who

09:41 you are and what you identify as and the particular country or culture that you're visiting.

09:47 For example, you know, you can't blend in as easily if you're surrounded by white people

09:52 and you're a person of color.

09:54 And then you can feel hyper visible.

09:56 I think, you know, you're more likely to be pegged as an outsider.

10:00 And it also impacts maybe on how other white travelers might respond to you.

10:06 In some cultures, white skin is prized.

10:07 And if you're the tourist with the brown skin, you're less interesting.

10:11 And therefore, there's less curiosity about you.

10:13 And people might not want to know you in quite the same way.

10:16 In certain countries, you might have to deal with racism.

10:18 Even if it's not overt, you might sense the hostility.

10:21 But there are upsides, too, because I've found when I've had opportunities to meet people

10:27 from indigenous cultures, for example, people who still live in traditional ways or close

10:32 to the land, there's often been more of a feeling of a bond because there's no whiff

10:37 of colonialism, however distant about me.

10:41 Ginny also said she's found this to be true as a woman, that it's often easier to connect

10:45 with other women.

10:46 She shared a great story about a day in a beauty salon that opened a door to an aspect

10:50 of culture she would likely not have seen if she hadn't gone.

10:55 I remember once going to Iran and having the most fantastic time, a fascinating time in

11:01 an Iranian beauty salon, because the women on the outside were wearing the hijab, but

11:07 in the salon, they were wearing mini skirts and tight little tops and lots of makeup.

11:13 And the questions, and they gave me a makeover, which is incredible.

11:17 But the questions were all the kind of questions you'd ask your girlfriends wherever you were

11:21 in the world.

11:22 You know, what are the men like where you are?

11:23 Do you have a boyfriend?

11:24 Do you have kids?

11:25 You know, what's your life like?

11:27 So there are upsides.

11:28 But I just think it's such a nuanced and complex thing.

11:31 It's very easy to paint this with a broad brushstroke, but you can't really.

11:35 Dr. Anu agrees.

11:38 During our conversation, I had shared my own journeys as a queer traveler navigating the

11:42 world.

11:43 Sometimes I was more out than other times.

11:46 Sometimes people would assume that my spouse is male, and if I felt uncomfortable, I might

11:50 let them go on thinking that.

11:53 But not everyone has that luxury.

11:56 If we have the notion that the typical American traveler is middle class, upper middle class,

12:04 white, educated in particular ways, and has resources, I come along and I look somewhat

12:11 different from that norm of the American traveler.

12:16 If the American traveler is assumed to be straight, you come along and might look or

12:22 seem different from that American traveler.

12:25 There are some parts of ourselves that can't be hidden.

12:28 I can't not be brown where I go places I am all the time.

12:35 Someone's queerness may or may not be visible on their bodies in the same ways.

12:41 And so which identities are choices for us to share with others, and which identities

12:49 are not choices?

12:50 All of this kind of swirls around that conversation about who we are at home, who we are abroad.

12:57 I'd love to be able to share with you or anyone that all of you is welcome everywhere.

13:04 But of course, that's not the world that we live in.

13:06 It's not true at home for too many of us.

13:10 And it's not true for many of us when we're traveling.

13:14 This is, I think for me, not wanting to be a local, but to just notice what locals do

13:21 helps me really think about issues of travel and power and hierarchy and identity and who

13:26 we are and who we aren't in different contexts.

13:29 I can't make all the hierarchies go away.

13:32 I can be mindful of how they play out.

13:35 I can try to keep myself as safe as I can.

13:38 And I can try to get to know people, even if I might not like something that they're

13:43 doing or thinking or in a way that doesn't quite work with my values.

13:49 I'm still in their space.

13:51 How do I do that?

13:52 Well, how do I do that?

13:55 Well, that's the real question, isn't it?

13:58 So let's explore the ways.

13:59 First, it's important to embrace discomfort, because the truth is that travel can be disorienting

14:06 and unfamiliar at times.

14:07 And that's often the glory of it.

14:10 Eric shared his view on new experiences while traveling.

14:13 He likes to, as he says, embrace the weirdness.

14:16 But weird in this case isn't a judgment.

14:19 It's a tool that allows him to acknowledge that something is unfamiliar to him without

14:24 rejecting it and using that discomfort to provoke curiosity.

14:29 He shared a story about trying a new to him food in Iceland.

14:33 And for those of you who have been to Iceland, you might know what's coming.

14:38 I went to a local market and I was told by someone in the hotel that I had to try the

14:43 harkal.

14:45 And I'm like, OK, I have to find a harkal booth to get some harkal.

14:48 Well, harkal is rotten shark meat, you know, that's been sort of stewing for a long time,

14:56 growing rotten.

14:58 And it tastes pretty much exactly the way you would expect rotten shark meat to taste.

15:04 And I have to be honest, it just tasted awful to me.

15:08 So my approach in those situations is twofold.

15:12 One is to embrace the weirdness like this is weird.

15:15 I'm eating rotten shark meat and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.

15:20 But and the but is key to this formula is, but what do they get out of it?

15:25 Where did this come from?

15:26 Well, in this case, it turns out that it's an ancient tradition that, you know, they

15:31 had, it was feast or famine in Iceland.

15:33 They had long periods of time historically where there was no food.

15:37 So they sort of fermented the shark meat for long periods of time and it kept well enough

15:42 that they could eat it.

15:43 And they developed a taste for it.

15:45 Eric says you can apply that formula to many situations.

15:48 In his mind, the problem comes when we skip that first step, the this is unfamiliar to

15:54 me step and go right to acceptance because we're trying to be nice.

15:59 He's not suggesting, of course, that we be rude or derogatory, but rather that we be

16:04 honest that, hey, this is a little unusual for me.

16:06 Can you tell me more?

16:08 What's the history?

16:09 Why do you like it so much?

16:11 Use those moments of discomfort to encourage curiosity.

16:15 I find it more honest to go there.

16:18 I'm an American.

16:19 I was born in America.

16:20 I see the world through American eyes, but I'm willing to change my prescription on my

16:26 glasses to put it that way.

16:28 You know, I mean, Henry Miller once said that when it came to travel, one's destination

16:32 is never a place but a new way of seeing things.

16:36 You can only have that transformation if you acknowledge that you saw things this other

16:41 way in the first place.

16:43 This is one of the reasons we travel to help, as Eric says, change the prescription in our

16:48 glasses and appreciate our differences.

16:50 Dr. Anu elaborates.

16:54 Travel can help us appreciate differences better because it often puts us in difference,

17:00 whether we want to be or not.

17:02 When we are in our so-called regular lives, we are in a routine, we are in familiarity,

17:08 we are often, not always, but we are probably more often in comfort than we are in discomfort.

17:17 I'm speaking in broad strokes, of course.

17:19 Everyone's stories won't fit exactly what I've just shared.

17:22 And when we travel, we are knowingly putting ourselves somewhere else.

17:28 And that knowingly putting ourselves elsewhere opens some curiosity up.

17:34 Not always, but that's the hope, right?

17:37 That it can open us up to notice more, to slow down more, to exit our usual routine

17:45 and think about something else and to be able to kind of move our minds on a different track.

17:52 This means embracing our status as an outsider.

17:55 There are advantages to seeing a place with fresh eyes.

17:59 Eric shares an example using a very famous French political scientist.

18:04 Alexis de Tocqueville was the quintessential observant outsider, we'll call him.

18:09 He came to America in the 19th century, the mid 1800s, and he was a traveler.

18:15 He's an outsider, spoke English, but he was not an American, he was a Frenchman.

18:21 He traveled all over the States.

18:23 He went upstate New York, he went down to the deep South, pretty much as far as you

18:27 can go in those days.

18:30 And he did travel like a local in that he went to town hall meetings and did things

18:34 like that.

18:35 Tourism wasn't quite the industry it is today at all back then, but he did really immerse

18:40 himself into American life.

18:43 And then he wrote an amazing book called Democracy in America.

18:46 And to this day, it is, I think, the best book about democracy in America.

18:53 I don't think it's a coincidence that the best book in American democracy was written

18:56 by a non-American.

18:57 Why is that?

18:59 Well, Eric likes to think of it as if we were all goldfish in individual fishbowls.

19:05 You're in the Eastland fishbowl and I'm in the Eric fishbowl, but we're both in a bigger

19:10 fishbowl called America.

19:12 And we don't even know their fishbowls because it's just, you know, we know our own experiences.

19:17 We only know our fishbowl until we get out of it and we hop into another bowl.

19:21 And that's what de Tocqueville did.

19:23 He hopped into a different fishbowl and could see it more clearly than the fish that were

19:27 already there.

19:29 And I think that you can be too close to a place and a culture and not be able to see

19:35 it clearly.

19:36 As an outsider, I would say an informed outsider like de Tocqueville and an observant, open-minded

19:42 outsider like de Tocqueville, you can see things that others don't.

19:47 Eric continued on to say that travel can also help us see our hometown or city more clearly

19:51 once we return.

19:52 I think many of us have had that experience where we return home and we can just see things

19:57 with a fresh perspective.

19:59 One of my favorite examples of that took place in the Miami airport following a two-week

20:04 trip in Cuba.

20:05 During that trip, my wife and I had carried toilet paper with us wherever we went because

20:09 there was just never any guarantee that we'd find some when we needed it.

20:14 On the flight home, there was a large group of American teenagers who had also spent several

20:18 weeks on the island.

20:20 And in the airport after we landed in Miami, I wound up in the bathroom at the same time

20:25 as many of the teenage girls on our flight.

20:27 They were freaking out about the abundance of toilet paper.

20:31 And I remember thinking, that seems like such a gift to have had that experience at such

20:36 a young age, one that seemed to help them appreciate what they had at home.

20:41 I shared that story with Eric.

20:43 He laughed and told me about the thing he always notices when he comes home from a trip.

20:48 The abundance of America and the proliferation of choices in the supermarket, breakfast cereal

20:54 for instance, whether it's good or bad, that's usually the one thing that strikes me when

20:58 I come back, go into a supermarket, it doesn't even have to be a fancy one, and you're like,

21:04 oh my God, we have so much stuff and so many choices, at least of breakfast cereal.

21:10 And the funny thing then is then I'm home for a few weeks and I go back to the supermarket

21:14 and I don't see, it doesn't strike me as odd anymore that there are 57 choices of breakfast

21:20 cereal in my local supermarket, just like it becomes normal.

21:24 And I see my job as a travel writer as twofold, to try to make the strange familiar and to

21:32 make the familiar strange.

21:34 I love that idea.

21:36 It encourages us to keep our eyes open when we're traveling and to keep them open as long

21:41 as possible when we get back home.

21:52 Are you inspired to travel in a more responsible way?

21:56 In Asheville, North Carolina, we believe in the power of ethical travel.

22:01 We care about the protection of our distinctive natural and cultural treasures in these Blue

22:05 Ridge Mountains.

22:07 And we appreciate visitors who share our values of stewardship and sustainability.

22:12 We know travel is transformational, and we invite you to be inspired by the creative

22:17 spirit and local flavors of our mountain home.

22:21 Be our guest.

22:22 Together, we can share adventures and preserve the natural beauty of Asheville, so future

22:26 generations can enjoy these mountains for years to come.

22:31 Learn more at exploreasheville.com.

22:49 Welcome back to Unpacked by afar.

22:50 Dr. Anu has some great advice about how she likes to observe while traveling.

22:55 Rather than try to travel like a local, when I am traveling, I watch the locals.

23:01 I watch locals closely and carefully and with friendliness in my eyes.

23:07 I do it less out of judgment and more just to understand how culture works, how gender

23:13 works, how age and generational difference works, how people talk to one another, how

23:19 people gesture at one another.

23:21 These are the things that a local knows without anyone teaching us, right?

23:26 This is what we learn being part of a culture and a community and a people.

23:32 And as an outsider, these are the very things that I'm curious to learn more about.

23:38 Less to have some mastery over it after my two days or three days or two months in the

23:43 location, but more to stretch my sense of how humans work in different parts of the

23:50 world.

23:51 Some of what I see, I try to emulate and some of what I see, I file away in my head

23:57 as knowledge, anthropological knowledge of how we work as humans.

24:02 She also has some advice for those of us who want to build some muscle around this.

24:07 It starts with being honest about how distracted many of us are in our daily lives and trying

24:12 to slow down and just watch more when we're someplace new.

24:16 I think we go through our lives in such a hurry that sometimes we're not even sure

24:21 what to notice and what not to notice.

24:23 If you are traveling, perhaps even if you're not traveling, if you're just in your so-called

24:28 regular life, take some time to notice who's around, how are they dressed?

24:34 Do they look like you?

24:36 Are the languages that are being spoken the one that you speak most often?

24:41 What does signage look like?

24:43 How are people relating to one another?

24:46 What is verbal?

24:48 What is nonverbal?

24:49 These are incredible cues to understand not just culture, but to understand our similarities

24:56 and differences.

24:57 I would say related to that is not only noticing externally what's happening in the community

25:05 and in the peoples that you're watching and interacting with, but also digging inside

25:11 ourselves and thinking, how does that make me feel?

25:14 What's coming up for me?

25:16 Am I awash in discomfort?

25:18 Am I awash in nervousness?

25:21 Do I find myself shrinking back?

25:23 Do I find myself leaning in?

25:26 These are really critical self-reflective questions that help us tune into ourselves

25:33 and our emotions in a really emotionally intelligent way.

25:37 Dr. Anu says it can be helpful to be aware of and to tone down our privilege as travelers,

25:43 depending on where we go.

25:45 But this doesn't mean trying to be someone we're not, as she explains.

25:49 I can't ever pretend to not be who I am and where I'm from.

25:54 I can, however, dial down the ways that privilege is displayed on my body, and I can try to

26:02 dial up the ways that friendliness or my receptivity to connecting might be present for me.

26:10 And if I am to be a guest in their community for two days, two months, I'd like to be a

26:18 good guest.

26:19 What does dialing down the fact that I come from an exorbitantly rich country, what does

26:26 dialing down the fact that I have more than many people in the world look like?

26:34 It doesn't mean trying to pretend that that's not there, but it does mean being sensitive

26:38 to how these things show up and play out when we are elsewhere.

26:43 When I am stepping through a less resourced community with my sly handbag or some, you

26:51 know, hi-fi backpack or some really expensive branded shoes, I'm stepping in saying something.

26:58 And what I'm saying is, "I have, I have, I have."

27:02 I'd like to actually step into that community or any community less by saying, "I have,"

27:07 or more by saying, "Hello, hello, hello."

27:11 Those are really different messages, right?

27:14 For Dr. Anu, toning down privilege might be as straightforward as not carrying a fancy

27:19 water bottle or putting away the elaborate shoes or smartwatch and opting for a simpler

27:24 version.

27:25 In a way, it's about setting aside our own worldview for a moment.

27:29 If you're wondering how to do that, well, Jenny has some ideas.

27:33 I try to find common ground with people if I'm talking to them, try to listen more and

27:39 talk less.

27:40 You know, I try to be sensitive to cultural mores, to customs.

27:44 I always try to smile and to be gracious and to look people in the eye.

27:49 I think that's really important, those small things.

27:52 And I think if you're genuinely interested in people, they'll sense it.

27:55 I don't seek to impose my worldview.

27:58 People might have beliefs that are widely divergent from your own, and you're not there

28:03 to pick a fight.

28:04 You're there to learn and to experience and to witness.

28:10 And you know, you come away with all this information and then you can decide what you

28:14 do with it.

28:15 For Jenny, the goal is to be as open and non-judgmental as possible.

28:20 Sometimes this means opening up on a more energetic level.

28:24 I mean, I always find what works best is to just be gentle and go with a good energy and

28:31 be open and gentle, and people really respond to that.

28:34 I find, anyway, I mean, it's different for different people, but that's what works for

28:39 me.

28:40 I remember going to Columbia once and going to a museum and I was assigned a guide and

28:46 I was just trying to kind of get on her wavelength, I guess.

28:50 And then she turned to me, she said, "Oh, you're a very sensitive person."

28:53 And I really liked that.

28:54 I was really touched by that, that she acknowledged that, that I was trying to make a connection.

29:00 Do you remember what you were doing?

29:02 Well, it's kind of a, just an energetic thing.

29:05 I think I was just, you know, that you can kind of expand or you can empty yourself and

29:10 open yourself up a bit.

29:11 And I was just trying to open myself up a bit and take my energy down to my heart center

29:16 and just connect as two people and not as, I'm the journalist that you're taking around

29:23 and you've got to be a certain way and I've got to be a certain way.

29:27 And so kind of throwing that out and just, you know, we're just two people and we're

29:31 going to make a connection hopefully.

29:33 And let's do it that way.

29:37 We've talked about various ways to open ourselves up to connection, but let's talk again about

29:41 the value of opening ourselves up to places.

29:45 In this case, the quote unquote tourist traps.

29:48 Here's Eric again.

29:49 To some extent, the tourist trap is in the mind of the beholder.

29:53 I mean, you're trapping yourself in a way in the tourist places by saying, because I'm

29:59 experiencing this with hordes of other people, it can't possibly be authentic.

30:04 Or because I'm not the first person here, it's a tourist trap.

30:08 Or because these people are trying to earn a living selling little statues of the Eiffel

30:13 Tower that diminishes the beauty and grandeur of the Eiffel Tower.

30:18 I think that's a mistake.

30:19 I think you're making your own tourist trap that way.

30:23 Keep in mind that touristy places are like cliches.

30:26 They're cliches because they're right.

30:29 They're beautiful.

30:31 Our cliches were once someone's original idea and expression.

30:36 And all tourist traps were once somebody, the first, I guess, non-Egyptian in this case,

30:41 to stumble across the pyramids.

30:42 Must have been like, holy ****, what the heck is that?

30:45 You know, that's amazing.

30:48 And you're not going to have exactly that experience, but you can still appreciate it.

30:54 Eric wants to be clear that he's not saying we shouldn't try to travel like a local, that

30:58 we should only go to tourist sites.

31:00 But just as there's value in getting off the beaten path, there's value to the beaten path.

31:06 He shared an example from a recent trip to Europe, where he found this value in a surprising

31:11 way.

31:12 I was just back from Paris and I went to Versailles, the palace just outside of Paris.

31:18 And it's, along with the Louvre, probably one of the biggest tourist attractions in

31:22 the Paris area.

31:24 And I thought I was so smart that I had booked my ticket online for 9 a.m. the first slot

31:29 because they have assigned slots.

31:31 And I thought I'd beat the crowds.

31:33 Not even close.

31:35 It was mobbed, you know.

31:37 And everyone's back and wants to see Versailles.

31:41 And I got depressed for a second.

31:44 Like, you know, I'm just a tourist.

31:46 I'm at Versailles.

31:47 I'm with everyone else, snapping pictures of the grandeur here.

31:51 But then I sort of started watching the watchers, you know, like watching the tourists and started

31:57 to sort of observe them sort of anthropologically, how different groups behaved and how this

32:03 group was different from that one and the way which rooms in the palace they chose to

32:08 linger in and which ones they ignored.

32:10 And because of this attitude shift, Eric found a really cool moment.

32:14 And then I was in the gift shop because there's always a gift shop, right?

32:18 And there's Baroque music playing in the loudspeaker system.

32:21 And the woman who's working in the gift shop, she just kind of starts dancing because it

32:25 was like dancing music.

32:26 And then I started dancing and she said in French, "This is Versailles," you know.

32:32 And it was like just a little tiny moment.

32:35 But I was in the gift shop of Versailles.

32:37 And if you're able to connect with a local person for just a moment in the gift shop

32:42 of Versailles, like the most traveled place in France, probably, I mean, that's pretty

32:47 cool.

32:48 Yeah, that's a miracle.

32:49 Well, but the thing is, you have to be open to it.

32:53 Like once you decide like, "Oh, God, this is terrible," you know, and I went through

32:57 that phase, but I got past it.

32:59 And I just sort of, I think what you said earlier about embracing, you know, embrace

33:03 the oddness, but embrace the tourism too, you're like, if you're fighting it all the

33:08 time, saying, "I'm not a tourist.

33:09 I'm not a tourist.

33:10 I'm a traveler.

33:11 I'm a traveler."

33:12 You wouldn't have that experience of dancing with the woman who works in the gift shop

33:15 at Versailles.

33:16 You have to be willing to make a fool out of yourself, which I'm willing to do, much

33:22 to the chagrin of my teenage daughter.

33:24 And you have to be willing to say, "Look, yeah, to some extent, I'm a dumb American,

33:29 you know.

33:30 And so I'm just going to blunder along here."

33:33 But you do it in an open-minded way.

33:36 You're blundering along, but you got your eyes wide open and you're willing to be open

33:41 to the possibility that life is otherwise, which I think lies at the heart of travel,

33:46 the possibility that life is otherwise.

33:50 And that's why we travel, right?

33:53 Because we believe that life can be otherwise.

33:56 Before we part, let's look at what we explored.

34:00 Takeaway one, the desire to travel like a local is not a bad one, but it's important

34:05 that we examine our intentions.

34:08 Why do we want this experience and what are we hoping to achieve?

34:12 How can we do it in a way that has depth?

34:15 Takeaway two, socioeconomic status, race, sexual orientation, and much more factor into

34:21 our travels.

34:22 There's no getting around it.

34:25 If you're traveling with what some would consider a more privileged passport, consider ways

34:29 that you might dial down your privilege.

34:32 Perhaps you don't carry the fancy water bottle or wear the smartwatch.

34:36 This can help open doors for connection.

34:39 Takeaway three, embrace discomfort.

34:42 Be honest and respectful about what you're experiencing and use it as a way to ask questions

34:47 and to go deeper.

34:49 Takeaway four, instead of trying to be a local, watch the people in your destination.

34:55 How do people converse?

34:57 What hand gestures do they use?

34:59 What's the pace of daily life like there?

35:02 Also tune in to how this makes you feel.

35:05 Are you uncomfortable or totally at ease?

35:08 Do you find yourself shrinking back or leaning in?

35:10 If so, do you know why?

35:14 Takeaway five, when connecting with people, set aside your own worldview and be curious.

35:20 Look for places of connection.

35:22 Be open and generous with your energy as long as it feels safe to do so.

35:27 Takeaway six, yes, get off the beaten path, especially if the community you're visiting

35:32 can support tourism.

35:34 Continue to support local businesses, restaurants, and neighborhoods, but don't overlook the

35:39 popular places for travelers.

35:41 If you really want to see the pyramids in Egypt or Versailles in Paris, don't hesitate

35:46 to go.

35:47 Just because you're sharing the experience with others doesn't mean it's inauthentic.

35:52 Continue to watch and observe.

35:54 Search for the magic moments of connection in those busy places.

35:59 Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of Unpacked by Afar.

36:02 From one sometimes local, sometimes outsider to another, I hope to see you out there.

36:10 Ready for more unpacking?

36:12 Visit us online at afar.com and be sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter.

36:17 We're @afarmedia.

36:19 If you enjoyed today's exploration, we hope you'll come back for more great stories.

36:25 Subscribing makes this easy.

36:26 You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform.

36:31 And please be sure to rate and review us.

36:33 It helps other travelers find the show.

36:37 This has been Unpacked, a production of Afar Media and Boom Integrated.

36:41 Our podcast is produced by Aislinn Green, Adrienne Glover, and Robin Lye.

36:46 Production was by John Marshall Media staff Jen Grossman and Clint Rhodes.

36:51 Music composition by Alan Queresha.

36:53 And remember, the world is complicated.

36:57 Being an ethical traveler doesn't have to be.

36:59 [MUSIC PLAYING]

37:03 [MUSIC ENDS]

37:05 (whooshing)

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