AFAR x Visit Scotland: A Panel on Sustainability
AFAR Digital Content Director Laura Dannen Redman led a panel that discussed Scotland’s approach to sustainable travel in more detail with a group of industry experts. Panelists included Vicki Miller, Director of Marketing for Visit Scotland; Imogen Russon-Taylor, the founder of Scotland’s first fragrance house, KINGDOM Scotland; and James Shillinglaw, Insider Travel Report’s Editor-in-Chief, who all made the case for why Scotland is among the most worthwhile destinations in the world.
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TravelTranscript
00:00:00 Okay. Hi everyone. We're going to get started in a second. So maybe grab your drinks, your
00:00:17 caffeine, juice, munchies. Thank you everyone for coming today. I see a lot of familiar
00:00:26 faces. It's really nice to see people in person without masks on. It's kind of extraordinary
00:00:32 how much we've missed. So cheers to you all for being here. Thank you. So quick introduction.
00:00:40 My name is Laura Dannen-Redman. I'm the digital content director of AFAR, a travel magazine
00:00:46 that's been around for 13 years now. And we are proudly friends and supporters of Scotland,
00:00:54 Visit Scotland, All Things UK. And we are here to have a really good conversation today
00:00:59 about sustainable tourism and travel as we recover from the pandemic. So we're going
00:01:06 to do about a 45 minute panel conversation and then we'll leave 15 minutes at the end
00:01:11 for Q&A. So I'd ask, please hold your questions till then, but definitely bring questions.
00:01:17 I will get bored of hearing myself ask them. And I'm just going to kick it off to Vicky
00:01:23 Miller and let everyone introduce themselves before we begin.
00:01:27 Hi, good afternoon. No, not quite. It just feels like afternoon to me. I'm Vicky Miller,
00:01:34 director of marketing at Visit Scotland. I'd like to say that I've actually probably got
00:01:38 one of the best jobs in the world. I get to market Scotland at home, but obviously internationally.
00:01:45 And North America is a really important market for Scotland. It's our largest international
00:01:51 market. So it's fantastic to be with you all here in New York and celebrating Scotland
00:01:57 Week tartan events all week. And that's been fantastic. So delighted to join the panel
00:02:03 today.
00:02:04 Hello, I'm Imogen Rees-Antaylor and I'm the founder of Kingdom Scotland, which is Scotland's
00:02:11 first fragrance house. It's sustainable, ethical, vegan, cruelty free. And I worked in the whiskey
00:02:18 industry and I think the whiskey industry brilliantly delivers a sense of place. And
00:02:23 I'm translating that into fragrance.
00:02:27 And I'm James Schillinglaw. I'm the other journalist on the panel. I do a newsletter
00:02:32 called Insider Travel Report for 100,000 travel advisors here in the States. And my connection
00:02:38 to Scotland is one, I've been there quite a number of times and two, I am of Scottish
00:02:42 descent. And three, I root for Manchester United.
00:02:46 Oh no.
00:02:47 And in the heyday, the best manager in Premier League was Ferguson, who is a good Scot. So
00:02:55 anyway, that's my connection.
00:02:56 I didn't know we had to bring our Scottish chops. I am also of Scottish descent from
00:03:02 Glasgow and this is not my tartan, but it went with my outfit. So why don't we get started.
00:03:11 We are here to talk about something that often is hard to define. So I thought we'd maybe
00:03:16 start at the very beginning and talk briefly about what we think responsible tourism is
00:03:21 these days. We hear words like conscientious traveler, thoughtful traveler, respectful
00:03:27 traveler thrown around. We use the word sustainability to mean many different things. How do we define
00:03:34 it for the purposes of this panel? So maybe, Vicky, what are your thoughts in terms of
00:03:40 Scotland?
00:03:41 I think from a Scotland perspective, we've adopted Harold Goodwin's definition of responsible
00:03:48 tourism. So it's about the four different pillars, economic, social, environmental and
00:03:54 cultural. So it's that kind of complete 360 experience. And I think if you look at that
00:04:00 definition, it puts community very much at the heart of tourism. And from a Scotland
00:04:06 perspective, Scotland, where we employ, there's 14,000 businesses right across Scotland. Tourism
00:04:14 touches every community in Scotland, employs 8% of the Scottish population and it's hugely,
00:04:20 hugely important. And when we surveyed recently Scottish residents, I think they recognize
00:04:28 how important and obviously with two years of limited travel and not being able to welcome
00:04:34 particularly international visitors to Scotland, I think they really recognize how important
00:04:39 tourism is both socially and economically and giving that vibrancy to Scotland. But
00:04:46 also what came out of that survey was recognizing that actually tourism does have an impact
00:04:51 on the environment. So as we start to kind of build back and grow the visitor economy,
00:04:57 hopefully in value terms to where it was in 2019, it's going to be important that we do
00:05:03 that responsibly. So that is responsible tourism is very much at the heart of our tourism strategy.
00:05:10 Our tourism strategy, Scotland Outlook 2030, is responsible tourism for a sustainable future.
00:05:16 And I think the important message in that is that we work really closely with communities
00:05:21 to get the right balance of visitors right across the year. So that seasonal and geographic
00:05:25 spread is really important in order that we can address all of those four pillars of responsible
00:05:33 tourism.
00:05:34 That's great. And I want to hear, I know James, you've been covering ecotourism, responsible
00:05:39 tourism for a while.
00:05:40 Green tourism, ecotourism. I mean, how many more games has it had in the 30 years I've
00:05:45 been in this business? But we were making headway, especially in the last five to 10
00:05:50 years. Right before COVID, I thought a lot of people recognizing something that was really
00:05:56 important because one thing you didn't mention was profitable tourism. And if you can make
00:06:01 a profit selling sustainable tourism because you're either conscious about it or, hey,
00:06:07 I do want to go to here, you know, eat local foods and interact with local communities.
00:06:13 That's what the experience is all about. And I think we were just starting to realize that
00:06:17 that was probably the most profitable tourism we could sell is sustainable tourism.
00:06:21 Yeah. And you bring up something interesting to this notion of seasonality. And I have
00:06:28 heard conversations that the off season has been abandoned during the pandemic. Do we
00:06:32 think on and off season will be important for tourism? Will you be actually Imogen,
00:06:40 from your perspective, do you see an influx of travelers at any certain time right now?
00:06:45 Or do you feel like you've had to pivot a little bit and just accommodate travelers
00:06:49 year round?
00:06:50 Well, it's quite interesting. I mean, during a pandemic when obviously nobody could travel,
00:06:55 it was quite interesting having a fragrance house because people could travel in scent.
00:07:00 So I really noticed during the pandemic that people were really interested in storytelling,
00:07:07 experiencing a sense of place, which you can through a screen, which and through scent
00:07:11 and through your senses. So that's that was a really different dynamic for my business.
00:07:16 And now that the world is opening up, actually welcoming guests and letting them experience
00:07:22 the whole sustainable aspect of my business and scent and the journeys. I think in terms
00:07:30 of on off season, it hasn't been relevant at all. People are just interested in travel
00:07:35 and experience. And I think sustainability has come up the customer's agenda. Definitely.
00:07:41 I think during lockdown, people had time. I think nature became really important to
00:07:46 everybody. It really started. People were craving it.
00:07:50 And Scotland is nothing but not nature. I mean, we talk about the cities and they're
00:07:55 wonderful city, believe me, some of the most beautiful in the world. But the nature aspect
00:08:00 of going into the highlands, of going out into the moors and doing this and hiking around
00:08:05 Scotland. I mean, it is one of the great adventure travel destinations in the world.
00:08:10 I think there's a lot of insight that even pre-pandemic consumers are looking for those
00:08:16 kind of transformative travel experiences, more immersive travel, which does involve
00:08:21 slowing down, taking time to really enjoy, get to know local cultures, spending time
00:08:26 in local communities. And I think the pandemic, if anything, has accelerated that trend. And
00:08:33 I think I completely agree. Scotland, from a point of view, connecting with nature, activities
00:08:39 and the outdoors is absolutely what people want to do. And Scotland is perfectly placed
00:08:47 to offer that. Interestingly, what that has done, and we're talking about seasonality
00:08:53 and we're talking about the impact of the pandemic, is that we've seen, which has been
00:08:58 fantastic, and it's about getting that right balance of visitors across the year. And for
00:09:03 us domestic travellers, so people from within the UK, typically holidays in Scotland for
00:09:08 short breaks. So we've seen domestic travellers maybe extend for a longer break, which has
00:09:13 been fantastic. Lots of new visitors to the countryside, enjoying activities for the first
00:09:18 time. But what's happened for us is the cities have been, people have wanted, I think because
00:09:24 of COVID, to stay away a little bit from the cities, but also cities have not had some
00:09:28 of the events and experiences that people have maybe been necessarily looking for in
00:09:32 the cities. Delighted to see that this year that's all returning. And so I think our cities
00:09:38 will have come to life again. But in terms of countryside and coast, we have recognised
00:09:45 pressures on particularly sensitive parts of Scotland. So one of the things that we've
00:09:51 done with many of our partners during the pandemic to get ahead of this, because we're
00:09:59 recognising that we want to welcome people to the countryside, is actually work collectively
00:10:04 to put plans in place around how we better manage that visitor experience. And that's
00:10:11 resulted in a number of different things. So it's resulted in a marketing and education
00:10:15 campaign about how to be a responsible traveller, to get people to adopt that pledge of respect,
00:10:21 protect, enjoy, and leave no trace, and just helping people to understand how they do that.
00:10:27 Because if they're new to the countryside, not always is that clear. But also investment
00:10:33 in infrastructure. So recognising that people want to do informal camping, wild camping,
00:10:39 that they want to motor home and travel, and what a brilliant way to enjoy Scotland. But
00:10:44 just looking at what new infrastructure we need to do that, EV charging points, so that
00:10:49 people can do it in a more sustainable way. So there's been a huge investment in new infrastructure
00:10:55 to support that, as well as the education. But then also looking at technology, how can
00:11:00 we use technology to allow people to be able to plan ahead, to know where somewhere's busy,
00:11:06 and particularly things like national parks, beauty spots in the park. How can we use technology
00:11:12 so that people know, well actually that car park's full, that place is full, and be able
00:11:17 to offer suggestions of where else they might go, so some of the hidden gems. So we're on
00:11:22 a bit of a journey with that, but recognising that actually it's a huge opportunity for
00:11:27 Scotland. We want more people to connect with the outdoors, but we need to do it in a way
00:11:31 that will protect those special places.
00:11:35 I'm glad you brought that up. I mean, obviously in the US we're talking about infrastructure
00:11:40 to support electric vehicles more and more. And I think in Scotland, casual travellers
00:11:46 don't anticipate how big the country is. And they think they can go to Edinburgh and Inverness
00:11:50 in the same five days. Maybe you can, but you're not going to see much else.
00:11:54 It's a lot of driving.
00:11:56 Yes, it's a lot of driving. Well, I was going to ask, how would you recommend travellers
00:12:02 might get out farther? Have rail improvements come in the last few years? Road trip routes?
00:12:12 I've heard about electric flights between Orkney Islands coming up soon. So there's
00:12:16 a lot happening, it sounds like.
00:12:18 So investment in transport infrastructure, I guess, is a key pillar of that recovery
00:12:24 strategy. And that will include, particularly, we've got something like 13, if you look on
00:12:30 visitscotland.com, you'll see something like 13 different driving routes, which includes
00:12:34 routes like the North Coast 500. There are many right across the country. So a bit of
00:12:39 a priority is looking at how we get EV charging points on those routes so that people can
00:12:43 enjoy. But a big part of that message is also about, please slow down. Don't just whiz
00:12:50 around the route. And I think working with communities on those routes about how they
00:12:57 can bring more experiential opportunities. We're actually seeing innovation. If you look
00:13:04 at the North Coast 500, many businesses have embraced. And now looking at how can we get
00:13:09 people to slow down on that route, go into communities where there's an opportunity to
00:13:14 buy local product, to enjoy new experiences, activities. So we're seeing there's a huge
00:13:21 opportunity there that will come out of that. So definitely transport infrastructure, trains,
00:13:28 electrifying routes, all of that is going to be hugely important to get to that net
00:13:35 zero destination that we aspire to be.
00:13:38 And net zero has come up a couple of times regarding small business. I had a meeting
00:13:44 recently with Brook Lottie Distillery. I love my whiskey. Can't help it. And they are aiming
00:13:49 to be the first carbon zero or zero emissions distillery in the country, which I think is
00:13:56 a big step for an industry that means so much to tourism, to Scotland. Imogen, I was wondering
00:14:01 from your perspective, what are you thinking about sustainable practices? How are you trying
00:14:07 to adapt in today's age?
00:14:12 I think it's really hard when you're a startup to actually embrace sustainability. It's much
00:14:17 easier for a multinational or a bigger business. But with Kingdom, I started with absolutely
00:14:22 the intention to be sustainable and ethical. And I think the time of lockdown gave me time
00:14:28 to reflect. And I really went through my whole supply chain and I made sure that cultural
00:14:33 sustainability was incredibly important. So everything is crafted, matured, bottled. Everything
00:14:39 is made in Scotland with local suppliers. And that was really, really important. And
00:14:44 I think this whole cultural sustainability goes into collaboration. So I developed partnerships
00:14:50 with the Royal Botanic Garden, Edinburgh, and my profits goes towards biodiversity research
00:14:57 in the face of climate change. I also have partnerships with hotels such as Glen Eagles
00:15:02 and the Balmoral, the Balmoral and the Scent Butler. So actually working with the community
00:15:06 and working with other partners, I think that sustainability is really important as well.
00:15:11 May I ask what a Scent Butler does?
00:15:14 It is quite bizarre. It's quite unique. They have a fantastic suite, the Ballions suite,
00:15:23 which was in honour of the Queen Mother, who was the patron of the Royal Botanic Garden,
00:15:28 Edinburgh. It's full of botanicals. It basically references one of my perfumes, botanica. So
00:15:33 it made sense for me to partner with them. And as a Scent Butler, I deliver scent experiences
00:15:38 for some of the high net worth individuals that are visiting Scotland who want a more
00:15:44 unique perspective. It's a sensory experience. I work with the chef, I work with the mixologist
00:15:49 in the hotel, so that someone has delivered quite a different experience when they visit
00:15:53 Scotland.
00:15:54 So it's not just a bouquet from a whiskey, right? It's more than that.
00:16:01 What are some of the scents of Scotland? We'll talk about responsible tourism again in a
00:16:05 second, I promise. What are some of the iconic, that give you a sense of place?
00:16:12 I was born in Scotland and went to live in England and came back. And in the holidays,
00:16:17 I was sent for half terms and Easter's to family. We had a house in Arden American in
00:16:23 the West of Scotland. And I think scent delivers memory and emotion in a way that none of the
00:16:31 other senses can. And that scent memory for me was climbing trees in some of the ancient
00:16:36 Caledonian forests. And I think it's a kind of experience, you know, we're so privileged
00:16:40 living in Scotland. A walk in a forest at different seasons is quite normal for us.
00:16:46 But if you can translate that for people that perhaps haven't had that experience, it's
00:16:50 really quite special. So that's one of my scents portal. You can smell them over there
00:16:54 later if you want to. So that's one scent. Also telling stories and scents. So working
00:17:00 with the Royal Botanical Garden, I mean, it's incredible. I created a scent. It's the second
00:17:04 oldest botanical garden in the world and goes right back to 1670. And I created a scent
00:17:10 to celebrate the 350 years of plant adventure and protection, which is quite a brief. But
00:17:17 you can travel in scent. You can experience a sense of place, a sense of emotion in scent.
00:17:22 And that's what I try to deliver. Also, I do geology. So I mean, that sounds quite mad,
00:17:27 but I did geology at Edinburgh University. Scotland has the most complex geology in the
00:17:31 world built onto fault lines. And how does that smell? You know, it's like approaching
00:17:35 scent as art. So different parts of nature brought to life in scent.
00:17:42 You know, in a sense, I think we talk about sustainable and responsible tourism. And people
00:17:47 sort of, you know, my eyes glaze over after a while. But if you start talking about things
00:17:52 that become more ubiquitous, like farm to table restaurants. Look, I've been traveling
00:17:56 through Scotland. And back in the 60s, when I was a kid going with my parents, it was
00:18:01 not a food destination. And now all of the UK is a food destination. And Scotland in
00:18:06 particular, because of all the-- well, there you go. And Scotland in particular, because
00:18:14 it's become such-- you've got incredible chefs up there. And so if we start talking more
00:18:18 about food, we start talking about-- we talked about storytelling. I'll tell you one story.
00:18:26 It's a few years ago, but I was on actually a Visit Scotland, Visit Britain trip up to
00:18:30 Scotland. And the people we met and the stories that they told us, there was a distiller who
00:18:36 went still, John Black, who I still can't get out of my head, because he was so good
00:18:39 about telling you about all the whiskey and life in general. That we walked away and we
00:18:43 just-- I wrote a column about him. And then I met a genealogist in Edinburgh who told
00:18:49 me about all the family history stuff. And you think, that's really boring. No, it was
00:18:53 incredibly fascinating. And you keep meeting these people. And you're talking about storytelling.
00:18:57 Storytelling, food, adventure. There's so many aspects to it. And we start talking in
00:19:04 those terms as opposed to a litmus test of whether something is sustainable or someone
00:19:09 is carbon neutral, which are wonderful concepts, believe me. But I don't think a traveler is
00:19:15 going to check the boxes. They will check the boxes on storytelling, on the experiences
00:19:20 they can have.
00:19:21 Yeah, absolutely.
00:19:22 That's a really great point. I think we often-- at work, we talk about it in the sense of
00:19:28 we don't want to ask our readers to eat their vegetables. You have to pair it with something
00:19:35 that resonates, like you said. And the more personal, the more-- like you said, hearing
00:19:41 individual storytellers across the country, I think, will get people to be sustainable
00:19:46 naturally and responsible naturally.
00:19:48 Yeah. And is it appropriate at this point to plug that it is a year of stories in Scotland?
00:19:54 So what better time to come? Because I think we are. We're a nation of storytellers. And
00:19:58 I think you're absolutely right. I think that's what makes the experience unique. And it is
00:20:03 that--
00:20:04 And we get to listen to those stories with those wonderful Scottish accents.
00:20:06 Absolutely.
00:20:07 So I mean, for Americans, we're suckers for that. You don't have to be heritage, but I
00:20:11 can listen to it. Except in the real north. I don't understand them.
00:20:16 You just need to ask them to slow down.
00:20:18 No, if I have a few whiskeys.
00:20:20 A few whiskeys, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:20:22 So I'd like to talk about the cities for a minute. We haven't had a chance to do so.
00:20:26 And pre-pandemic, Edinburgh often made it into the headlines for being, quote unquote,
00:20:33 over-tourist. And then all of a sudden, it went from over-tourism to zero-tourism. So
00:20:39 have cities such as Edinburgh, Glasgow, even farther north, Aberdeen, how have they pivoted?
00:20:47 Have they taken the opportunity, seen it as a clean slate, and put in practices to help
00:20:52 the cities come back better?
00:20:54 Yeah, I mean, for Scotland, international visitors are so important to the city and
00:21:02 to city economy. So I think we're optimistic that this summer will-- spring, actually,
00:21:09 and into summer, we will see the international visitors back and that vibrancy with festivals,
00:21:16 et cetera. I think for somewhere like Edinburgh, I mean, we talk about over-tourism, but for
00:21:23 Edinburgh, it was a very, very short few weeks during the festival when Edinburgh was very
00:21:29 vibrant, lots of people enjoying the festival. But actually, if you look at across the year,
00:21:35 there is still capacity. So again, it's back to that objective of the cities in particular,
00:21:42 showing what they offer all year round. But also, propositions like the festival, looking
00:21:49 at, well, actually, how do they take some of the events and spread it across the city
00:21:53 and not concentrate it just in the city centre? So I think you'll see that with the festival
00:21:57 this year, that it will look at-- and I think many European cities do this well, isn't it?
00:22:03 They promote the different neighbourhoods of the city. And each neighbourhood and each
00:22:07 part of the city has got their own story to tell and maybe their own unique aspects, whether
00:22:11 that's independent retailers, food and drink, walks. And our cities are also very close
00:22:20 to nature, lots of parks and gardens. So there's something very different in every city. So
00:22:25 I think it's for the cities to tell their stories in new ways, to encourage people just
00:22:29 away from-- to enjoy the things that are renowned, but also to enjoy some of the unique experiences
00:22:37 that are maybe not as obvious. And I think we're seeing the cities doing that. Interestingly,
00:22:42 some of the best practice, I think, that's come out of the pandemic where cultural attractions
00:22:49 use guided tours is they're looking at how can they provide more immersive guided tours.
00:22:56 So it's much more about making sure visitors are booking ahead to get their time slot to
00:23:02 enjoy a tour of Edinburgh Castle. And it's going to be about that more immersive experience
00:23:08 rather than volume of throughput of visitors. So it is going to be important, I think, to
00:23:13 plan ahead and book. But I think visitors have become more accustomed to doing that
00:23:17 during the pandemic for obvious reasons. So I think we are seeing some changes.
00:23:24 In our chat yesterday, Edinburgh Castle came up. And I believe you said the number of visitors
00:23:30 has permanently been cut in half.
00:23:32 Yeah, because they want to provide-- they want to continue to provide that more immersive
00:23:37 experience that they've been able to do. And I think you asked me, Heidi, you enjoy Scotland.
00:23:42 And I think tour guides using tour companies is a great way because you get that storytelling
00:23:48 and you get that quality of visitor experience. It's a great way to do it.
00:23:54 Plus, if you can't get into Edinburgh Castle because of the limits, there are plenty of
00:23:58 castles.
00:23:59 There are plenty of castles. Absolutely.
00:24:00 One or two.
00:24:01 And you go to Stirling. You go to all these other incredible places all around. I mean,
00:24:05 when I was a kid, I used to collect postcards of all the castles I went to. And there are
00:24:09 just so many. And I mean, I'm glad you're putting limits on Edinburgh Castle. But I
00:24:13 mean, at times I've been there, it's been fine. Yes, and I have been there during the
00:24:18 tattoo, during the fringe. And yes, there are a lot of people there. But it's manageable,
00:24:23 I think. It is not-- and especially now, we're talking about over tourism. And now we're
00:24:27 finding out we were all under tourists the last two years. Every place is like that.
00:24:32 And we realize-- I think what that's done, though, is to point out the value of tourism.
00:24:36 Absolutely.
00:24:37 Because that-- and I'm actually headed to the World Travel and Tourism Council next
00:24:41 week or the week after. And this has been the issue. You've got this balance between
00:24:45 over tourism and suddenly realizing no tourist cares.
00:24:48 No cares. Yeah.
00:24:49 And people are out of work and people don't have jobs and things aren't open. And we see
00:24:53 the value of travel and tourism right away, right here.
00:24:57 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
00:24:59 James, speaking about guided tours, are your readers more or less interested in them?
00:25:05 Well, in terms of what they-- my readers are travel advisors. So they would like to sell
00:25:10 guided tours. And I think guided tours have gotten a bad rap over the years. They're now--
00:25:16 we used to call them tours or motor coach tours, bus tours. And then they're now guided
00:25:23 tours. And I think it's actually one of the best ways to see a country. They're smaller,
00:25:29 in many cases. They're not the bus tours of old. They have very expert guides. You can
00:25:34 see stuff when other people can't see it. It's a great way. And most of the tours I've
00:25:39 gone on Scotland, I think the bus had eight to 16 people in it. And there's some amazing
00:25:44 tour operators within Scotland that can show you these sites that you can't see on your
00:25:49 own. And I've done it the other way. I've gotten in a car and driven all over Scotland.
00:25:54 And I may not have had the same experiences that I could with the guided. So my readers
00:25:58 want to sell those because those are commissionable. And they offer great value to their customers.
00:26:04 So absolutely. Yeah, they can sell a car rental and start selling different resort-- different
00:26:11 castle stays and things like that. That's perfectly fine. But I actually think guided
00:26:16 tours are sometimes the way to go.
00:26:20 So before we turn it over to questions, I did want to talk briefly about one of Scotland's
00:26:24 greatest assets. It's landscapes. It's nature. And rewilding has become a big part of Scotland's
00:26:32 sustainable tourism campaign. Something called Tree for Life. Trees for Life. Would you mind
00:26:39 telling us a little bit about that?
00:26:41 So Trees for Life, it's all about-- now, I maybe have to turn to one of my colleagues,
00:26:47 actually. But it's rewilding experiences. So you can actually be part of and closer
00:26:54 to nature. So yeah, a great way to actually go and be part of and to learn more about
00:27:00 rewilding and our Scottish habitats, et cetera.
00:27:04 That's great. And I believe there's a brand new rewilding center being developed, which
00:27:10 I think might be one of the first of its kind in Scotland, if anyone has anything on that.
00:27:17 There's also a new UNESCO trail, I believe.
00:27:21 Where is that?
00:27:22 In Scotland.
00:27:23 I thought it was Ireland. But where does the trail run?
00:27:31 So it links the 13 world heritage sites across Scotland into a unique trail. One of the first
00:27:39 destinations, of course, to do that, working very closely with UNESCO. And so it touches
00:27:45 a number of, obviously, 13 communities and lots of businesses on that trail. So if you
00:27:49 go to visitscotland.com, we've actually got an interactive UNESCO--
00:27:52 And this is a walking trail, or driving, or you just going--
00:27:55 Well, really up to you as to how you would actually do the trail. So what the map does
00:28:00 on visitscotland.com, it tells you about the world heritage sites. It obviously tells you
00:28:05 about the different ways that you can enjoy the trail, a little bit about the communities
00:28:10 and the businesses that you can enjoy on the trail. And a big part of that has been about
00:28:16 that commitment of the communities and the businesses that are on the trail to responsible
00:28:22 tourism. So it is a truly sustainable trail. And we're working very closely. And I guess
00:28:30 it's about getting those businesses to embrace the principles of responsible tourism. So
00:28:36 it's got that community angle, the environmental angle, the cultural angle, and obviously the
00:28:41 economic angle, because it gives us a hook in terms of promoting that trail and the different
00:28:45 experiences you can have right across the year. So that was great to be able to launch
00:28:51 that last year. And it's been great to see the interest in it. So yeah, absolutely. Something
00:28:58 very unique.
00:28:59 Another type of tourism that I think we should mention is ancestry tourism, because it is
00:29:04 so ingrained both in Scottish tourism and also very aligned with sustainable tourism,
00:29:10 because you are there to see where your family came from, your local tourism. You want to
00:29:15 meet people. You want to interact. You're not just here to tick boxes off a castle or
00:29:20 attraction. You want to get with the people. And I think Scotland has been one of the pioneers
00:29:26 in that. And you had the different festivals where you brought people back a number of
00:29:30 years, campaigns.
00:29:31 Absolutely.
00:29:32 And I always said, well, that's fantastic. I mean, and in fact, other people imitated,
00:29:36 other countries did imitate Scotland to do the same.
00:29:38 Yeah, absolutely. We have an expert in the room, actually, in my team, Noel, who can
00:29:43 talk to anybody about ancestral tourism. But yeah, no, absolutely, hugely important. And
00:29:50 when you, particularly here, when we're here in the US, everybody wants to talk about those
00:29:55 family connections with Scotland, and then they want to come go visit, following the
00:29:59 footsteps of their ancestors.
00:30:02 May I ask a quick show of hands? How many of you are Scottish or have Scottish heritage?
00:30:08 That's great. Happy Tartan Day. Okay, we are, thank you so much. I feel like we could talk
00:30:20 about each of these topics for a while, but I would like to leave some time for questions.
00:30:25 So I don't know, are we doing a microphone? Or if you have a question, just raise your
00:30:31 hand and shout it out. It's a small group.
00:30:32 So I wanted to just go back to a comment that James made earlier about sustainability and
00:30:56 what businesses can do, the brands that really need it. But I thought you made a good comment
00:31:22 that people don't want to hear about carbon neutral, and some of those buzzwords that
00:31:23 a lot of businesses talk about, don't really resonate with consumers or travel advisors.
00:31:24 You know sustainability is important to the traveling public. So what do you think about
00:31:25 sustainability? I mean, it's like we all know about it. We know we should be sustainable.
00:31:28 We know we should be carbon neutral. We know all these things. But how do you get there?
00:31:32 I said at the beginning, profitably. You want something that people want to buy and want
00:31:38 to go to and then experience. So storytelling is one way to go. And I remember I was telling
00:31:44 the stories about my stories of Scotland, and I have a whole bunch more. But it's a
00:31:49 great way to get into it, as opposed to talking about those sort of technical, high level,
00:31:53 you know. I mean, if I see one more company saying we're getting rid of plastics, I'm
00:31:57 going to, you know, I know that's what we're supposed to do, and we should do it. But it's
00:32:02 not something as a traveler I'm going to say, am I going to go as a traveler? I mean, Paul,
00:32:07 are you going to go as a traveler and say, oh, there's no plastics there, I'm going to
00:32:12 go, and they're CO2 neutral. All right, I'm ready to go. No, I don't think so. You've
00:32:17 got to do storytelling. You've got to do experiential travel, which is the buzzword, has been for
00:32:22 many years. And that's what you have to sell. And if we sell that profitably, everybody's
00:32:27 going to be happy, because there'll be, people will be employed, you'll get to see incredible
00:32:32 experiences. And we'll gradually emerge from this, I think. And that's one of the things
00:32:37 we were talking about earlier. What has COVID done? And what we're trying to do is emerge
00:32:41 sustainably in that way. But we have to do it the right way and the market it the right
00:32:47 way. I think there is, so I guess there's a responsibility for the destination and businesses
00:32:52 that are part of that to do their, to play their role. But you're right. That's all.
00:32:56 And that's also going to help them to be a more resilient business. So if you're managing
00:33:00 your energy, if you're looking at your waste, all of those things, but that's not from a
00:33:04 consumer point of view. I think what we would encourage, certainly our businesses to do
00:33:08 is exactly what you've just said, tell the story. If you're staying at a particular guest
00:33:13 house or bedroom, where are you sourcing your local food from? You know, how are you working
00:33:19 with your community? What are, what's the stories and the things that you can see and
00:33:23 do and around, you know, so bring those stories to life. That's what a visitor wants to do.
00:33:29 Everything else in many respects is hygiene, but it is important that businesses are doing
00:33:33 it A, to be more efficient themselves, but obviously because we have a responsibility
00:33:40 to the environment.
00:33:41 Absolutely.
00:33:42 I do think maybe even, it might just be our subset of travelers, but people are starting
00:33:49 to chafe if they see a lot of plastic in a hotel, if they see water bottles everywhere
00:33:53 and they don't have these sanitizations.
00:33:54 No, they're definitely becoming aware. I'm not making fun of that. I think it's a great
00:34:00 thing to do. It's a great practice. And yes, we are suddenly aware, oh yeah, there is a
00:34:04 water bottle there. I mean, I can't tell you in the last year, how many places on cruise
00:34:08 ships and things like that I've been, they give you a bottle and that's your bottle.
00:34:13 And you're supposed to fill that up whenever you want it. You don't want just to say, and
00:34:18 it is great practice. Don't get me wrong, but it is the plastic part of it. And we've
00:34:23 become more aware of it, but that's, that's something I don't know if you're, if you really
00:34:27 want to get people sold on a destination, I'm not going to go there because of the plastic
00:34:31 water bottles.
00:34:32 Very true. I think they are starting to align with businesses that match their own values
00:34:37 though more and more every day. So they may seek out, they're not going to Google, you
00:34:42 know, like four seasons plastic policy, but they are going to look for smaller businesses,
00:34:47 maybe kingdom Scotland that resonate with them, that give them a sense of community.
00:34:52 I think Laura, to your question, we don't really put sustainability and carbon neutrality
00:34:58 in our headlines, but we do include it when we have the discussion in the story. We try
00:35:04 to think of it more as how can you get a better sense of this place through a truly local
00:35:09 stay, leaning more into the cultural and social elements of sustainability, like you said,
00:35:15 because you just need to connect. You need that human connection. That's why we travel,
00:35:19 right? I mean, to a degree it's to see beautiful things, but really it's to meet new people
00:35:26 and be outside our comfort zones.
00:35:27 Or you just get down to having a wee dram of whiskey and some pipes and that's it,
00:35:31 right?
00:35:32 Exactly.
00:35:33 It's sustainable, right?
00:35:34 Any other questions?
00:35:35 Sure. All of us here, of course, are focused on a lot of luxury experiences, and I mentioned
00:35:36 it. I'd love to hear from each panelist what is the experience of Scotland that you would
00:35:37 recommend for one, for us, for an American who has no contact with Scotland, no family
00:35:38 history, but is just interested in going, maybe this summer is their first time, and
00:35:39 what's something that you could say for each of you that an experience of a trip to Scotland
00:36:08 would be?
00:36:09 I mentioned you want to go first.
00:36:22 I think of what I could think. I mean, for me, I work with some of the travel companies
00:36:32 that do really exclusive, very different things that you often, you know, they're off the
00:36:39 beaten track. So, for example, I work with the Botanical Gardens and the Balmoral, where
00:36:44 we can take guests behind the scenes to places that aren't normally open. I'm working with
00:36:50 partners such as McLean and Bruce, who own Room Hall, which is the Bruce family's hall.
00:36:56 Again, it's not always open to the public, so things that are a little bit different.
00:37:00 There's some providers that provide things that are extraordinary. Bravo Whiskey Golf
00:37:05 is a company that does, you can go helicopter to really extraordinary different places that
00:37:10 you can't normally get to off the beaten track, play golf in extraordinary places. So, there
00:37:15 are sort of, I think, during the pandemic as well, people have popped up to create really
00:37:20 different experiences for high net worth individuals, and Scotland's full of them.
00:37:26 And you talk about luxury travel. Scotland is full of luxury travel experiences, no question
00:37:32 about it. They're actually, I forget the organization that represents all these different luxury
00:37:36 accommodations. I'll make a blatant plug for a place I've gone to quite a lot, Glen Eagles,
00:37:43 which is known for its golf, but it's an amazing hotel. It has farm to table restaurant. And
00:37:50 one day, I did the Scottish Olympics. So, I went out and I learned how to do a Land Rover
00:37:55 drive over the moors. I did archery, I did shooting, and then I ended up, well, falconry,
00:38:04 and then I ended it with a sustainable spa treatment. So, I mean, if that's not luxury,
00:38:12 and it's not just Glen Eagles, okay? There are other properties all over the country
00:38:16 that offer that. There is, and I'm forgetting the organization.
00:38:19 Luxury Scotland.
00:38:20 Luxury Scotland, thank you.
00:38:21 Luxury Scotland.
00:38:22 It does what it says on the tip.
00:38:23 It does what it says on the tip. You can find so many different experiences like that in
00:38:29 Scotland that even if you are not of Scottish descent, after you do these things, you will
00:38:34 be because you'll have an affinity for the country.
00:38:38 And that could be staying in a castle and having that castle to yourself. So, exclusive
00:38:42 use, venues, as we talk about them, which in some cases, a castle is an option. And
00:38:48 actually, you're right, those businesses will then put together an itinerary based on the
00:38:54 needs of what your clients want to do. So, whether that's a helicopter to St. Andrews,
00:39:02 whiskey tasting, whatever it is. So, check out Luxury Scotland website.
00:39:09 There's also a few fun smaller companies, like Away From The Ordinary, that specializes
00:39:14 in bespoke tours. I'm hoping to get out there sometime, but a lot of it will be, you can
00:39:20 pair whiskey tasting with kind of exclusive castle tours, like you mentioned. I've done
00:39:28 safari in the lower Highlands, which was really fun.
00:39:33 So, what are the big five in Scotland?
00:39:36 There's a beautiful deer.
00:39:41 The eagles, the falconry. Just to have a chance to do that. My six-year-old nephew was the
00:39:46 bravest of our entire extended family, and he had a giant bird of prey on his arm. It
00:39:52 was bigger than him. But just to see it in his eyes, he was so proud of himself. You
00:39:58 don't need to be Scottish to appreciate that.
00:40:02 And then, there's so many beautiful... Allendale? Has anyone been to...
00:40:06 No. There's, farther up north, there are opportunities to engage with rewilding and stay in these
00:40:15 gorgeous places. So, you have them, I don't know, acres and acres, resort stay. We'll
00:40:22 give everyone a list when we're done. That was a good question, though. Thank you. Who
00:40:27 else? Yes.
00:40:28 So, when you think about the virtuous cycle of sustainability, which really sets up the
00:40:35 vision, which is a policy, which is meant to implement the vision and measure it, which
00:40:40 is meant to iterate and make sure you drop the land. Would you be willing to talk a little
00:40:45 bit about what this has got to do with decimation stewardship? Because you seem to be leading
00:40:50 that space, and the real failure of sustainability efforts comes down to, in many cases, a lack
00:40:55 of or a temporary or a place where there's a stewardship plan for a destination. It seems
00:41:01 like you're leading that space.
00:41:04 Yeah. I mean, as an organ... So, we have... I mean, obviously, we are a marketing organisation,
00:41:09 but we also... Part of our organisation is about providing industry advice and support
00:41:14 to businesses. And so, in that space, working with the industry on a responsible tourism
00:41:22 action plan, and that brings together all of our partners and the industry. And we're
00:41:29 really on that journey. We were the first destination organisation to sign up to Tourism
00:41:33 Declare's climate emergency and also the Glasgow Declaration on Climate Action. And that requires
00:41:38 us to have an action plan. And a part of that will be about a baseline measure of the industry.
00:41:45 And so, we're in that... We're there at the moment doing that kind of research and understanding
00:41:49 what that baseline is so that we can measure it over time. But so, a significant focus
00:41:55 is looking at what investment is needed, what advice and guidance, getting businesses into
00:42:01 a green accreditation scheme, because also it does... What I was talking about earlier
00:42:06 can help them to manage costs, also reduce their carbon footprint. But also, then, it
00:42:14 covers that wider advice piece around the social, the cultural, the community aspect
00:42:19 of responsible tourism. So, we're on a bit of a journey. And I think the last two years,
00:42:27 we've really come together with the industry to kind of map that action plan. And so, over
00:42:34 time, we will be able to monitor and measure.
00:42:38 Does... Follow up to that, does Glasgow being in the spotlight for the Climate Council change
00:42:45 the way Glasgow acts? Is it now a leader? Has it always been a leader in sustainability?
00:42:53 I mean, I think, obviously, being the host to COP, yes. So, there was a lot of work done
00:43:00 in the city to look at its responsible tourism, from a tourism perspective, action plan. And
00:43:10 I guess maybe just doing what I was talking about on a Scotland level, at a Glasgow level.
00:43:14 But yeah, I think very, very much so.
00:43:17 Thank you.
00:43:19 Just let me show you the next slide.
00:43:21 Yes.
00:43:22 What's a food or drink item that every American visitor should try in Scotland?
00:43:28 Hagus. It's not as bad as you think. It's like a pâté.
00:43:35 I think...
00:43:37 No, there's a lot more.
00:43:38 Wonderful seafood.
00:43:40 Yeah. And wonderful beef, actually.
00:43:43 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Angus beef.
00:43:45 It's really locally... Angus beef, luckily.
00:43:47 Yeah. Imogen, what do you think?
00:43:49 Seafood. That's my favourite. Absolutely love it.
00:43:53 Fish and chips in Stockbridge or Olin.
00:43:56 And mushy peas.
00:43:57 And there's some great chefs in Edinburgh now, too. Glasgow.
00:44:02 We have one in our company.
00:44:05 [Laughter]
00:44:09 Tony, yeah?
00:44:11 What's one thing, one dish, Scottish dish that everybody...
00:44:16 [Inaudible]
00:44:40 Tony, what's your form of stovies?
00:44:44 Mutton.
00:44:45 Mutton, yeah.
00:44:46 [Inaudible]
00:44:55 [Laughter]
00:44:57 It's not the real deal.
00:44:59 And also, in the seafood, specifically salmon, you can get incredible salmon all through the country.
00:45:04 I mean, I used to think Alaska was where you got it, but actually...
00:45:08 Scottish salmon.
00:45:09 Of course, smoked salmon, you can't go wrong.
00:45:12 Yeah, absolutely.
00:45:13 I used to have that for my starter appetiser every single time was a nice piece of Scottish.
00:45:20 And if you go to the islands, you can go to the small cases and have that whole experience.
00:45:25 [Inaudible]
00:45:28 Game, yeah.
00:45:29 [Inaudible]
00:45:45 Rabbit, venison.
00:45:47 [Inaudible]
00:45:50 Grouse.
00:45:51 [Inaudible]
00:45:53 Tony, may I put you on the spot?
00:45:55 Do you mind telling us the name of your restaurant and where you're based?
00:45:58 [Inaudible]
00:46:07 Wonderful.
00:46:08 [Inaudible]
00:46:09 Okay, you're going to invite us all.
00:46:10 So there's a unique experience.
00:46:12 [Laughter]
00:46:13 Chat with you after.
00:46:14 [Laughter]
00:46:15 Thank you.
00:46:16 [Inaudible]
00:46:18 Any other questions?
00:46:19 Yes.
00:46:20 Hi.
00:46:21 I'm going to make a case for dairy and carbs, so...
00:46:24 [Laughter]
00:46:26 Yeah, the cheese.
00:46:27 [Inaudible]
00:46:33 Yeah, yeah.
00:46:34 [Inaudible]
00:46:39 Yeah, it does.
00:46:40 [Inaudible]
00:47:02 So I agree with James that storytelling is what really gets people motivated and meeting people in public communities.
00:47:10 I guess this question is for Vicki and because it's Scotland, where are some places in Scotland you can go, say off-peak, that you don't have the school, you know, Edinburgh festival experience, but you get to meet people, you get to go to those distilleries.
00:47:24 I love travelling off-peak because I get to do more, go wines and I get restaurant reservations.
00:47:31 Yeah, yeah.
00:47:32 So I'm just curious about that.
00:47:34 I think it's, from an industry perspective, it's been a huge focus for, you know, a long period of time in terms of building up that off-season offer.
00:47:44 And even now, if you look at some of the Scottish islands, it can be challenging, weather and all of that, but we are seeing longer seasons.
00:47:52 We're seeing a longer season, so, you know, September, October time, good time still to go to the islands.
00:48:00 Same, you know, March, April, so we've seen that season lengthen.
00:48:04 But, you know, the south of Scotland, again, very accessible if you're an international visitor flying into Edinburgh, going south, northeast.
00:48:13 So working with the industry to recognise the opportunity that there is around extending the season, seeing our event programme lengthen as well, so it's not just summer festivals.
00:48:25 We've got winter festivals.
00:48:27 You know, we've got things around St Andrew's Day events.
00:48:32 So events have actually, I think, been a great way for us to extend the season and the offer during the shoulder months.
00:48:41 And, you know, particularly during this last winter, we worked closely with our visitor attractions in Scotland to help them to offer an opportunity to stay open longer
00:48:56 and incentivise visitors to enjoy more of what they've got to offer at a time when particularly they would maybe have previously closed,
00:49:04 because obviously the season last year was very short.
00:49:08 And that worked as a way of just, not just, you know, any visitors, but getting locals to visiting our attractions.
00:49:17 And I guess gives the attractions that opportunity to think about how do we continue to build on that.
00:49:22 So I think that's been a really important part of what we've done as a destination is working with businesses to do that and recognise the benefits.
00:49:31 I think seasonality, even before Covid, we were losing seasonality.
00:49:37 The people were going on shoulder seasons, people were going off season.
00:49:40 And now with Covid, people just want to go.
00:49:43 And they will take kids out of school.
00:49:45 They will do what they can.
00:49:47 And we're seeing a lot more off season travel.
00:49:50 And we talk about seasons, but what's a season anymore?
00:49:53 And Scotland, I would argue in the winter you can go to Scotland and there's some incredibly temperate areas of Scotland.
00:50:00 I hear people playing golf in December, January, and I'm like, you think in your mind, oh, you can't do that.
00:50:06 Yes, you can.
00:50:07 Yeah, you can.
00:50:08 And a lot of innovation, a lot of investment in outdoor experiences that you can do all year round.
00:50:14 Absolutely.
00:50:18 I think a lot of us have seen these major travel brands roll out these commitments and efforts and announcements tied to sustainability.
00:50:27 Do you guys have any brand in mind that kind of hit those four pillars that they've been mentioning in the best way possible, but great messaging coming off this?
00:50:36 I know there was a time when we were all traveling, and I think some of these efforts came out at a time where we had to be careful the way we positioned to travel.
00:50:45 So, is there any brands that you guys have in mind that you might have hit right off the nail with that?
00:50:49 That's a good question.
00:50:51 Kim and Jim, do you have any peers?
00:50:53 McAllen comes to mind.
00:50:56 Their distillery is extraordinary that they recently opened in 2018.
00:51:00 It's set into the hillside.
00:51:02 Everything is, I think, solar powered, wind powered.
00:51:06 It's supporting the local community.
00:51:09 Everything's locally sourced as well.
00:51:11 And they're looking at packaging, too.
00:51:13 So, I think they, in the whiskey industry, are quite extraordinary.
00:51:17 And I'll go with a brand that is really based, I think, more of being in London, but actually they have plenty of tour operators up in Scotland and even some hotels.
00:51:26 And it's the Travel Corporation, which has an organization called Treadright that is supremely focused on sustainable issues.
00:51:34 I mean, they have really gone overboard.
00:51:36 Not overboard, that's the wrong word.
00:51:38 But, you know, they really have focused on this to an extreme.
00:51:43 And I'll give all good credit to the Tolman family who have done this.
00:51:47 And they're opening or they have a new hotel in Edinburgh.
00:51:50 They have a number of tour operators, even the big ones that we know, the Trafalgars, things like that, that offer tours of Scotland.
00:51:57 And also, you know, Red Carnation Hotels, things like that.
00:52:00 So, I'll give them a plug.
00:52:02 I'm trying to think of some uniquely Scottish brands that we have that would be doing all best practices.
00:52:09 There's a small, I guess, tour operators in Scotland, Wilderness Scotland.
00:52:15 I've interviewed them, yeah.
00:52:17 Check out their website.
00:52:19 And I think, you know, they've started labelling, carbon labelling, their tours.
00:52:26 They do a lot in terms of community, kind of payback.
00:52:30 I think Rabbies as well.
00:52:33 Yeah, and really do kind of embrace those four pillars of responsible tourism.
00:52:39 So, they're a really good example.
00:52:42 Diageo as well.
00:52:46 Brook Lottie as a standalone, just to see how a small company, well it's not particularly small, but a single company is expressing its changes.
00:52:56 And Preferred Hotels, largely speaking, has a Beyond Green program.
00:53:01 Yeah, well actually it's a separate unit now.
00:53:03 It's a collection of hotels that are, and I don't know what hotels they have in Scotland.
00:53:08 I'll have to look into that.
00:53:09 Yeah, I wanted to check on that.
00:53:10 They actually separated a whole thing just looking for green hotels.
00:53:14 And you have to meet certain criteria and be committed to certain things to be part of that.
00:53:19 So, if you go to beyondgreen.com, you'll see their hotels and whether there's one in Scotland.
00:53:24 If there's not, there should be or there will be.
00:53:26 In Scotland, we also have the Green Tourism Business Scheme.
00:53:29 So, more and more businesses are looking into using that scheme as a way of doing what I was saying,
00:53:36 in terms of embracing all the principles of being more environmentally, economically sustainable.
00:53:47 Afar magazine.
00:53:52 Got to get in the flow.
00:53:55 I think we have time.
00:53:56 Oh, no, you know what?
00:53:57 Are there any more questions?
00:53:58 Last question.
00:54:01 This was great.
00:54:02 We're at an hour.
00:54:03 Thank you so much for such an engaging conversation.
00:54:05 Thank you to our panelists.
00:54:06 Thank you.
00:54:08 Thank you.
00:54:09 Thank you.
00:54:10 Thank you.
00:54:11 Enjoy the rest of your time celebrating Scotland this week.
00:54:17 Thank you.
00:54:18 Thank you very much.
00:54:20 Thank you.
00:54:22 Thanks.
00:54:24 Thanks.
00:54:26 Thanks.
00:54:28 Thanks.
00:54:29 Thanks.
00:54:30 Thanks.
00:54:31 Thanks.
00:54:32 Thanks.
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00:55:42 We use the word sustainability to mean many different things.
00:56:00 Having me define it for the purposes of this panel.
00:56:04 So, maybe, Vicky, what are your perspective?
00:56:08 What are you thinking about sustainable practices?
00:56:11 How are you trying to adapt to?
00:56:17 >> I think it's pretty hard for me to start to actually embrace sustainability.
00:56:22 It's not too different from international or big business.
00:56:25 Looking at myself, it was absolutely the intention to make things more important.
00:56:30 So everything is crafted to ensure that everything is made in a sustainable way.
00:56:36 And that was really important.
00:56:39 And I think this whole cultural sustainability goes into collaboration.
00:56:43 So I developed partnerships with all the towns in the world.
00:56:46 [INAUDIBLE]
00:56:57 [INAUDIBLE]
00:57:24 [SOUND]
00:57:27 [LAUGH]
00:57:29 >> So, I wanna just go back to a comment that James made earlier about
00:57:33 sustainability storytelling.
00:57:36 Cuz I thought that was really interesting, and this may be a question for
00:57:39 James and for Laura.
00:57:41 Obviously, when COP26 was in Scotland, there were a lot of stories about
00:57:44 Scotland being a leader in sustainability and what businesses were doing,
00:57:48 the brands that were leading.
00:57:50 But I thought you made a good comment that people don't wanna hear about
00:57:53 carbon neutral anymore.
00:57:55 Some of those buzzwords that a lot of businesses talk about internally
00:57:59 don't really resonate with consumers or travel advisors.
00:58:02 Yet we know sustainability is important to the traveling public.
00:58:06 So what do you think about that shift to sustainability storytelling?
00:58:11 I mean, do you have any ideas?
00:58:13 >> I think that's a really good market.
00:58:14 The word sustainability, it's like we all know about it.
00:58:17 We know we should be sustainable.
00:58:19 We know we should be carbon neutral.
00:58:21 We know all these things.
00:58:22 But how do you get there?
00:58:23 And I said in the beginning, it's possible.
00:58:26 You want something that people wanna buy and wanna go to and
00:58:29 then experience.
00:58:30 It's a marketable.
00:58:33 >> I think that the responsibility for the execution of businesses
00:58:38 that are actually about to do their, to do what they're doing.
00:58:41 Maybe what we would encourage their businesses to do is in fact,
00:58:46 tell the story.
00:58:47 You're saying I should take care of the gas pipe.
00:58:50 >> [INAUDIBLE]
00:58:54 >> Us here, of course, are focused on a lot of luxury experiences and
00:58:59 on the higher end.
00:59:00 And I'd love to hear from each panelist, what is an experience in Scotland
00:59:05 that you would recommend or want most for an American who has no contact
00:59:10 with Scotland, no family history, but is just interested in going.
00:59:14 Maybe this summer is their first time.
00:59:18 What's something that you could say for each of you, an experience or
00:59:22 it doesn't have to be big and expensive.
00:59:25 Maybe just something that kind of fills your heart with Scotland that you
00:59:28 think can fill up someone else's heart.
00:59:32 >> [INAUDIBLE]
00:59:42 [INAUDIBLE]
01:00:07 >> Tony, what's your performance?
01:00:11 >> [INAUDIBLE]
01:00:17 [INAUDIBLE]
01:00:22 >> [LAUGH]
01:00:25 >> That's not the real deal.
01:00:27 >> [INAUDIBLE]
01:00:33 >> I mean, I used to think Alaska was where you got it, but actually,
01:00:37 of course, smoke salmon and camera.
01:00:39 >> Cream, cheeses, and bread, desserts.
01:00:44 And of course, seafood and gin, surprisingly.
01:00:48 Everybody knows about Scotch, but I think Scotland makes more gin than
01:00:52 England now, don't tell anyone.
01:00:55 But one of the things that's come up with sustainable tourism is about
01:00:59 traveling off peak, pushing seasonality.
01:01:03 And we've had a struggle in Britain, I work for Visit Britain.
01:01:06 Just sometimes places, especially if they're a bit off the beaten path,
01:01:09 aren't open.
01:01:10 And people, after this past two years, are saying,
01:01:14 I want to go somewhere where I can get the full experience.
01:01:17 So I agree with James, that's the storytelling is what really gets people
01:01:22 motivated and meeting people in local communities.
01:01:25 I guess this question is for Vicky and Visit Scotland is,
01:01:29 where are some places in Scotland you can go, say, off peak,
01:01:32 that you don't have to have this full Edinburgh festival experience,
01:01:35 but you get to meet the people, you get to go to those distilleries.
01:01:39 I love traveling off peak because I get to do more, no lines,
01:01:43 and I meet people and I get restaurant reservations.
01:01:46 So I'm just curious about that.
01:01:48 [inaudible]
01:02:05 So working with them to make sure, and that worked as a way of just,
01:02:11 not just any visitors, but getting locals to visit and have an attraction.
01:02:17 I guess there's the attraction part, which is how do you continue to build on that.
01:02:22 I think that's been a really good thing.
01:02:24 Even before COVID, we were losing seasonality.
01:02:28 The people were going on children's season, people were going off season.
01:02:31 And now with COVID, people just want to travel.
01:02:34 And they will take kids out of school, they will do what they can,
01:02:37 and they will see a lot more off season travel.
01:02:41 And we talk about season, but what's a season?
01:02:43 Obviously, I would argue that the way you can go stop in the middle of summer,
01:02:49 if that doesn't mean tempered areas, and stop all the good people playing golf in December, January,
01:02:54 you can't do that.
01:02:57 [applause]
01:03:08 [inaudible]