Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast Goes Deep Into The Mindset of the Locker Room, More
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00:00 Hi everybody, this is Hondo Carpenter and Zeke Trezevan from Sports Illustrated's FAN
00:07 NATION Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast, part of the Fans First Sports Network.
00:11 It's great to be with you today.
00:13 I'm a little exhausted.
00:15 Yesterday was a day trip to LA working on my next deep dive article.
00:20 Let me just tell you guys, wow, almost saying, if you have enjoyed all the deep dive articles
00:29 inside the Derek Carr marriage with the Raiders, the Josh McDaniels, Rich Passaccia, all of
00:37 it, if you have enjoyed any of the deep dives, you ain't seen nothing yet.
00:42 Oh, Zeke, without saying anything, you know why I was there, you know the people that
00:48 I spoke to, you know what's coming.
00:51 Do you think I'm using hyperbole or am I telling them the truth?
00:55 I will just quickly say that not very many people are ready for how deep this dive is
01:00 going to be.
01:01 It's going to be fun, isn't it?
01:04 You're a lifelong Raider fan.
01:05 How has it been for you to learn some of these things I learned?
01:08 Say it again, I'm sorry.
01:11 You are a lifelong Raider fan.
01:14 So for you to have learned some of these things that I'm going to be writing, has it been
01:18 cool?
01:19 It's been quite mind blowing from the small details of the big details to things that,
01:26 you know, the closest of the close don't even know.
01:29 So it's going to be interesting to say the least.
01:33 It's going to be awesome.
01:34 And I cannot wait to share with everybody.
01:37 So thank you, Zeke, yesterday you were you were commanding the ship at Raiders while
01:43 I was in Los Angeles.
01:44 But it's great to be back with you again today.
01:48 I also want to start by saying I am very mad at you.
01:51 Why's that?
01:52 Very.
01:53 You know why.
01:54 You know what's coming because I told you I was going to do this.
01:57 So last week I did Hondo in a hoodie.
02:01 And the only other time I will do a Hondo in a hoodie is if AP gets the job and after
02:07 playoff wins.
02:08 That's it.
02:09 I'm a professional.
02:10 We wear collars, shirts, whatever.
02:13 So you made the comment on the show.
02:16 Boy, that hoodie is clean.
02:21 To which I said to you, of course, did you expect me to wear one that was dirty?
02:26 Wow.
02:30 Thanks for filling me in as my pop culture instructor.
02:36 I am no longer your Padawan learner when it comes to pop culture.
02:40 I got excoriated in a good way.
02:43 People were not jerks.
02:44 But people were like, how did you not know what that meant?
02:48 Zeke, you should have set me up a little bit better, brother.
02:53 Glad I could help out.
02:54 We're coming along with the pop culture, with the lingo, slowly but surely.
02:58 But what was the other one you mentioned to me in terms of lingo?
03:02 I can't recall what it was.
03:06 But we'll figure it out later.
03:07 But yes, glad I could help out with that in terms of bringing you along.
03:11 You didn't help out.
03:12 You didn't help out.
03:13 And then you told me, tell the listeners, I walk into the building, the Raider building,
03:19 and I'm like, why didn't you tell me?
03:21 Tell them why you didn't tell me.
03:23 In terms of clean or in terms of the other one?
03:26 Clean.
03:27 Oh, well, listen.
03:29 Clean is just, you know, I thought you knew, honestly.
03:31 Because back in the day, like we spoke about, the term was clean as a whistle.
03:36 So I thought clean was just kind of cutting that short.
03:39 Like I thought you knew, basically.
03:40 But here we are.
03:41 We're making progress.
03:42 You told me I didn't tell you because I wanted to watch you.
03:46 Let me remind you.
03:49 I think it was the Instagram one.
03:53 But I've learned that now.
03:54 It's Instagram.
03:55 Yeah, yeah.
03:56 The Instagram one, I didn't know.
03:59 No.
04:00 The funny part was that somebody corrected me early and says it's not instant grams.
04:07 It's just there's no S. So I just called it instant gram.
04:12 And then luckily someone finally said, you do know it's insta.
04:15 And I'm like, oh, no.
04:17 All right.
04:18 So anyways, calling it before.
04:19 I like I like the way you were using the word instant gram.
04:22 Like it was perfect that way.
04:23 That's why I didn't correct that one.
04:24 So yeah, I like that one a lot.
04:26 Actually, you should go back to it, actually.
04:32 Maybe not.
04:33 Maybe not.
04:34 Now, let me tell you guys how Zeke rolls.
04:36 We go to lunch the other day.
04:38 Because I like to take him to lunch and we chat about things and stuff we're covering.
04:44 And, you know, a lot of times we do it literally right after we walk out of the locker room
04:48 just to kind of share our thoughts.
04:50 What are we seeing?
04:51 What are we hearing?
04:52 Are we hearing and seeing the same things?
04:55 Now this is how I roll.
04:56 Cup of coffee and a water.
05:00 How does he roll?
05:03 I want a Hennessy sidecar.
05:07 You can't lose with the sidecar.
05:08 The sidecar, it never fails.
05:10 Doesn't matter what time of the day it is either.
05:14 I have a problem.
05:17 Zeke, I don't know what I'm going to do with you.
05:21 You're an amazing guy.
05:22 I sure appreciate you so much.
05:24 And I want you to know, part of my joys of the new year is getting to work with you every
05:29 day.
05:30 So I appreciate you, my friend.
05:31 Likewise.
05:32 All right, let's dig in now to some serious stuff.
05:35 Let's talk about the Raiders, the state of the Raiders, where it's all at.
05:42 I have had a lot of people say to me, "It feels like you're trying to be AP's agent,
05:51 that you're pushing AP."
05:52 And I had one person even say, "If you don't stop it, I'm not going to watch again or read
05:57 again."
05:58 And I'm like, "Okay, then you can go."
06:00 My job is not to be pushed into what I report.
06:04 Nobody tells me what I report.
06:07 I don't think we tell you what to report.
06:08 You go get your own stories.
06:11 But that is the mood of that locker room.
06:15 I was in that locker room when Rich Versace was here, and they wanted Rich.
06:20 It was nothing like it is now.
06:23 They want AP.
06:27 And as we report this, we're literally telling everybody, we're not enhancing, we're not
06:34 amplifying the mood of the locker room.
06:37 We're simply distributing what it is.
06:40 Agree or disagree?
06:41 Listen, completely agree.
06:42 I'm kind of at a loss for words, to be honest with you, to hear that people feel like you're
06:48 pushing AP.
06:49 At the end of the day, the players are pushing AP.
06:52 That's what's coming out of their mouth.
06:53 That's what's coming out of their play on the field.
06:55 And I think that goes a lot further than anything a reporter can say or do.
07:00 So yeah, I'm actually kind of surprised to hear that, because every time a player opens
07:03 their mouth or any time they're asked about who should be the coach, they don't hold back.
07:09 We spoke to Max yesterday and I asked him again, who do you think should be the coach?
07:12 Max has said AP so many times, he's tired of saying it.
07:15 He almost didn't answer the question yesterday.
07:17 He's like, guys, I've answered this multiple times on national TV, through the press.
07:21 What else do you want me to do?
07:22 So I think the players are speaking that more than anything a reporter can say.
07:25 It's our job to let you know how the players feel, what the players are saying on the record,
07:30 and how they're feeling.
07:31 And that's what they feel.
07:32 That's what they have felt since Josh was fired.
07:36 That's not over exaggeration.
07:38 That's very, very evident from every conversation, every day in the locker room.
07:42 It's clear who they as the players want as the head coach.
07:45 All right.
07:46 I want to not go in a different direction.
07:50 We're going to stay on this topic, but I want to move a little bit.
07:56 Mark Davis doesn't need your opinion or mine.
07:59 He's the owner.
08:00 He can do whatever he wants.
08:02 But yesterday, I'm communicating with a player.
08:07 I'm in Cali, but part of the time I was communicating in Cali, then of course get off the plane
08:13 and whatever.
08:14 But anyways, and they were discussing AP and AP getting the job, and just how important
08:24 it was to them.
08:25 And about why are people saying it's just rah-rah?
08:30 Why are people not understanding?
08:32 I mean, the changes, the implementations, the things he's doing.
08:38 I find it funny.
08:41 I've had a lot of people say to me, "Well, what do you expect a player to say?"
08:46 Well, then you're saying they're disingenuous.
08:50 Players know how to not endorse someone and not come across as a jerk.
08:55 They know how to do that.
08:57 And they're emphatic.
08:58 And you know these players now, Zeke.
09:03 Are people going to call Max Crosby a liar?
09:05 No, they've always been pretty genuine with us, from what I can tell.
09:10 And when Max and Devont, they've been pretty genuine.
09:13 Genuine, I should say.
09:14 Excuse me.
09:15 Yeah, I agree with you.
09:16 So I think it amazes me.
09:18 So the other day, I'm talking to a player.
09:20 This was not yesterday, but the other day.
09:22 And a player said to me, "You can't say the organization is about the players.
09:29 You can't say, you know, we're getting rid of Josh because we see the players aren't
09:33 having any fun.
09:34 When all of your players are speaking to you, this is the guy we want.
09:39 If you don't want to hire AP, fine.
09:40 But then just don't say it's about all the players."
09:44 I thought that was a pretty powerful statement.
09:50 I thought it was an emotional statement.
09:53 And I'm going to ask you this question.
09:56 Mark Davis doesn't need your permission, my permission, or any fan, and he doesn't
10:00 care.
10:01 Nor should he.
10:02 If I was the owner, I wouldn't care.
10:04 I'm asking you, if he does not pick AP, is there going to be a long-term residual effect
10:15 between Mark Davis and his locker room?
10:18 I think the quick answer is yes.
10:21 Especially, A, depending on the personality of the coach that they do hire, and B, obviously
10:26 of the results from that coach.
10:29 More so because the "easy answer" was already there, was already in the locker room.
10:35 And for you to kind of overthink it and completely bypass what the players are telling you, that
10:41 says a lot.
10:42 How do you go back to them?
10:43 And again, let's kind of fast forward a year or two.
10:45 Let's say you hire someone else and it doesn't work out, and you're right back in a similar
10:48 position as you were with Josh.
10:51 Now you're not in a similar position as you were with Josh.
10:53 You're behind, right?
10:54 Because you're in that position again.
10:55 So I think if he does hire someone else and it doesn't work out, I mean, at that point,
10:59 I think he's going to have some issues, honestly, with his stars.
11:03 I think obviously the other players are going to feel a way, but I think the bigger stars
11:08 on the team are going to feel some kind of way because they've already told you.
11:11 And more than what they're verbally telling you, again, they're showing it to you on the
11:15 field, right?
11:16 So think about when Josh got fired and the players were all rah-rah and they were really
11:20 hyped.
11:21 Had they came out and lost the next one or two or three or four games, then it's like,
11:24 okay, we have a problem.
11:26 They won those games.
11:27 They won those games resounding in a very resounding fashion.
11:30 Their play on the field says more than their words, but their words and their play match
11:33 each other.
11:34 At that point, how much thinking does the owner need to do?
11:38 And I think had there been somebody else other than AP or AP didn't work out and he went
11:42 elsewhere for a coach, okay, no harm, no foul.
11:45 But AP has done a pretty darn good job of all things considered, you know, these last
11:50 eight, nine weeks.
11:52 I want to admit something to you that I feel like I have failed.
12:00 I've talked about it, but I don't think I've talked about it enough.
12:04 The offensive production has struggled as of late and I've mentioned it, but I had a
12:10 player say to me, why are more people not talking about no Josh Jacobs?
12:16 I mean, that is, or Colton Miller was injured and looking at all of the players that were
12:21 out on offense, the loss of Michael Mayer.
12:27 And maybe, listen, the offense should be better than what it is.
12:31 No one's arguing that point.
12:34 Neither was the player.
12:35 But they were like, there are legitimate reasons it's struggling.
12:39 Why are people not talking about it more?
12:41 And in all fairness, I get people all the time trying to tell me what to do and I don't
12:46 listen to them.
12:47 But I listen to players when they feel like there's a point where I'm not being fair.
12:52 I thought that was a very germane point and I promised him we were going to talk about
12:55 it.
12:56 Let's talk about that.
12:57 Yeah.
12:58 In terms of, I think the reason why it's not getting talked about or the reason why it
13:01 doesn't get talked about is because the offense has struggled pretty much the entire season.
13:05 And I think whether those guys are healthy or not, the struggle was there.
13:09 So I think people that are, I think it's not getting talked about because it doesn't, I
13:14 don't want to say it doesn't matter because it does, right?
13:15 You're down, you're starting running back, you're down, you're starting as, you know,
13:18 Colton Miller, Colton Miller is one of the best in the league.
13:21 That's a huge deal.
13:22 But again, even with them in there, it was still a rocky season.
13:24 So I think a lot of people look at it like that's just not necessarily an excuse, right?
13:28 If you guys are great and flying high with those guys in there and they got hurt, okay,
13:32 but it's been a struggle for 17 weeks.
13:35 So I think that's the reason why they're looking for a reason.
13:39 But I also think that people are, you know, on the outside looking in, they're not as
13:43 X's and O's focus as a player would be or as a coach would be or as we would be because
13:48 we're in it all the time.
13:49 They're looking at it as strictly the offense didn't move the ball, the defense isn't doing
13:52 X, Y and Z.
13:53 They're not looking at X's and O's like we do.
13:55 So, but I think it's a very fair point, right?
13:58 You're missing some of your best talent across the board.
14:01 It doesn't matter who you are.
14:02 You know, if you don't have your best talent, it's going to be tough, right?
14:05 So the best ability is availability.
14:07 It doesn't matter how good you are if you're on the sideline, right?
14:09 So everybody is impacted when your best players don't play.
14:12 Yeah, 100% agree with you.
14:15 All right.
14:16 I want to, again, sticking with Raiders, obviously, let's go in a little bit of a direction.
14:21 I expect a big statement on Sunday.
14:25 I'm not expecting 40 points.
14:27 I'm not pretending that I am.
14:29 But these players have rallied.
14:32 They have the, they're going to do whatever they have.
14:36 They're going to bite, scratch, claw to get this win for AP.
14:42 This is one of my surest game.
14:45 One of my children plays in a fantasy league and I don't know how to explain it because
14:50 I'm not a fantasy football player.
14:52 But each week you have to pick a team and once you pick them, they don't get to play.
14:59 Again, I don't know how they, elimination league or something like that.
15:04 Whatever that type of game is, this is the most surest I've been of a Raider win all
15:10 year.
15:11 Agree or disagree?
15:12 Yeah, like even when we were going through the score and I sent you my prediction, them
15:16 winning or losing was never a question.
15:18 I would honestly be shocked if they lost this game.
15:21 You know, they've lost some games this year where you scratch your head, right?
15:24 That Minnesota game, that Chicago game come to mind.
15:26 If they lose this game, I would be beyond shocked if they lose this.
15:30 So in my head, it is a for sure win.
15:31 It's just a matter of how much did they win by.
15:33 Does the offense favor Raider?
15:36 Hang on, we lost you there for a second.
15:40 Obviously, again, AP, you know, his job, you know, to be in there and bring it.
15:52 And I think they're going to W. So I don't think it's the same time.
15:55 You know.
15:56 All right, Zeke, we looks like we lost you, buddy.
16:00 So as we try to get you back, you know, one of the things I think that when I talk about
16:05 this game and about the importance of this game and about the significance of this game
16:12 is the Raiders got to get out there and they got to get this thing handled and they've
16:17 got to take care of their business.
16:20 And I think they're going to.
16:21 I expect to see that.
16:23 To me, that's super important.
16:24 To me, that's the way this is going to flow.
16:26 This is a game they got to take care of their business.
16:28 You agree or disagree, Z?
16:31 Oh, all right.
16:33 I thought we had him back, but we lost him.
16:35 All right.
16:36 Absolutely.
16:37 Zeke's made his own.
16:38 You know, for them, it's just a matter of doing what they do, playing the game that
16:39 they play.
16:40 I'm sorry, I'll say it again.
16:43 Hold on one second.
16:46 All right, you're good.
16:48 OK, so my thing is, yes, this is about the players taking care of their business and
16:53 making a statement.
16:54 A thousand percent.
16:55 A thousand percent.
16:56 You know, I think, you know, for them to come out on Sunday and do anything but win would
17:02 be very, very detrimental to all the work they put in over the last X amount of weeks.
17:06 So I think they're going to go out there and cap it off correctly.
17:09 They're playing a Denver team, obviously in the division, but, you know, Denver is a little
17:13 bit worse off than the Raiders are right now.
17:15 So they have to come out.
17:17 And like we said earlier in the season, you have to win the games you're supposed to win.
17:20 It doesn't matter who's the coach, doesn't matter who the players, you have to win the
17:22 games you're supposed to win.
17:23 This is a game that they're supposed to win.
17:25 And I think they will.
17:26 Yeah, I've never seen these guys as locked in as they are right now in my four years
17:33 of covering this team.
17:34 All right.
17:35 Lastly, I just want to get into two quick things.
17:38 You want to tell everyone what your prediction score was?
17:41 I forget exactly what the score was, but I want to say it was a double digit win.
17:44 I believe it was 24 or 10 or 21 10 that I sent.
17:48 I was going to go 24, but I took it down, you know, because of the offense.
17:51 So yeah, it was a double digit W and I feel pretty confident about it.
17:57 All right.
17:58 I want to talk about Gruden and Harbaugh because really it's a three horse race.
18:03 I don't think it's OK.
18:06 It's a three horse race with one of the horses way in the back.
18:08 John Gruden.
18:10 Our talk about AP is not minimizing Jim Harbaugh.
18:14 He's great football coach.
18:17 Proven track record.
18:19 This guy would not be a bad.
18:20 I had somebody say to me, you know, why do you think Harbaugh is a bad hire?
18:25 I said, I don't think Harbaugh is a bad hire.
18:27 I think he's a great football coach.
18:29 I think he's super good.
18:31 He's a winner.
18:33 I just think where this team is right now.
18:35 AP is the one that I think for the franchise long term.
18:43 But our talk about AP, our support of AP is not minimalizing Harbaugh and Gruden as great
18:51 coaches, at least not for me.
18:53 Is it for you?
18:54 No, no, I think it's, you know, like you said, you mentioned it right in terms of Gruden.
18:59 I'm not sure how high he is on that list, but obviously he's on the list.
19:03 But specifically about Harbaugh and AP, it's not a matter of how good of a coach Harbaugh
19:07 is.
19:08 It's proven none of us can debate what he's already put on paper wins, losses, you know,
19:12 NFC Championship appearance, like he's been there, he's done it.
19:15 But what I think is the question is, is fit.
19:17 I think that's the word everybody's kind of skipping over.
19:20 You can put Jim Harbaugh on a lot of different situations and he's probably going to do relatively
19:23 well.
19:24 But that doesn't mean he's a good fit everywhere.
19:26 That doesn't mean his personality is going to fit with every team, with every locker
19:29 room.
19:30 And I think with AP, what's it with the AP conversation, what's getting kind of glossed
19:36 over is the fact that this locker room needs a personality more like AP.
19:42 If you put Harbaugh in there and his personality, if you ask me, I think it's going to be a
19:46 little bit closer to Josh McDaniels than it is AP.
19:49 Again, now you're putting yourself in a position to kind of take two, three, four steps back
19:53 because you're swinging for the home run when all you needed to do was swing for that single.
19:57 And guess what?
19:58 The game was going to work in your favor.
19:59 So nobody's doubting John Harbaugh's coaching skills.
20:02 It speaks for itself.
20:05 Jim not John.
20:06 I'm sorry.
20:07 I keep on getting the J's confused.
20:08 Jim, my apologies.
20:09 Nobody's doubting his coaching skills.
20:12 My opinion, my question is, is he the right fit for this team, for this locker room?
20:17 Yeah.
20:18 And his supporters would rightfully say he's a proven winner.
20:25 I don't care if he fits the locker room, bring the man, let him bring the players that fit
20:28 around him.
20:29 It's all about winning.
20:30 I just think it's important to present that side as well, too.
20:33 I don't, it's just normally I would say it doesn't matter, but having ignored the locker
20:40 room and not hired Bissaccia and Josh failed and the way they're locked in now, I just
20:45 think this is treading in dangerous waters for Mark Davis.
20:51 A few years ago, I was fishing in a tropical area and the guides, and I got out of the
20:57 boat because the water was just up to my hips.
20:59 Now, granted, my hips are a lot higher than yours because I'm tall and you're short, but
21:04 he just said, just be careful.
21:06 And when the guy up on top sounds the warning, you got to get out of the water because there's
21:10 sharks.
21:11 I said, okay, my point to you was, is that this is sharky water right now.
21:19 And glad no one's going to say, I don't want my contract, get me out of here.
21:22 I'm not saying that, but it's, you want that locker room.
21:27 You know what it's like when they're engaged with a coach and when they're disconnected
21:31 from a coach.
21:32 Fair enough.
21:33 You've seen it this season.
21:35 You saw both this season, right?
21:36 You saw the first eight games of the season.
21:38 They weren't connected.
21:39 You saw immediately after that, they were connected.
21:42 Now it doesn't mean you're going to go undefeated, right?
21:44 You're still going to take your losses, but those losses look differently under AP.
21:47 They looked a lot different under AP.
21:49 Look at that Chicago loss, that Detroit loss and hell compared to even the Minnesota loss
21:53 looked different than those two games, right?
21:55 They lost all the same, but it wasn't the same.
21:58 So yes, I think, I think it's very fair in terms of the long-term that we're talking
22:01 about.
22:02 But I think, I think for Mark and again, like you said, he doesn't have to listen to our
22:07 opinions, right?
22:08 It really doesn't matter.
22:09 But I think for Mark, you have to take into consideration the past two coaches.
22:12 You can't make this decision and not taking the consideration, the past two builders,
22:16 right?
22:17 And I think switching from AP, like you said, sharky waters, that's all I'll say.
22:21 Sharky waters for sure.
22:22 Yeah.
22:23 It's going to be very interesting.
22:24 We have so much great stuff coming up, you know, during the off season on the podcast,
22:29 we'll still be doing the podcast every day, but man, we're going to be talking drafts
22:33 and free agents.
22:35 In fact, in a couple of weeks, two weeks from today, we're going to actually look at all
22:40 of the Raider free agents.
22:41 You and I are, you know, who should be back, who shouldn't be back.
22:45 We're going to, we're going to really go through the roster.
22:46 I'm really looking forward to doing that with Zeke.
22:48 I think you're going to see Zeke a little bit more in the off season.
22:51 We may even get them on here a couple of times a week, but it's going to be great.
22:55 I love working with you.
22:56 I've seen just a few minutes over at the facility, but thanks for joining us again today, Zeke.
23:01 Yes, sir.
23:02 Thank you for having me.
23:03 All right.
23:04 This is Hondo Carpenter, Zeke Trezevant from the Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation, Las Vegas
23:09 Raiders Insider Podcast.
23:11 Now remember, you can follow me on Instagram, HondoSR on Twitter @HondoCarpenter.
23:17 You can also just listen to our podcast audio only.
23:21 I know you all want to look at Zeke, but nobody wants to look at me, including me.
23:26 You can listen to the audio on Spotify or on Apple, as well as I do a second podcast
23:32 every day called Riding with Hondo and Dexter.
23:35 It's me and my son just hanging out in the car.
23:36 It's an exclusive.
23:37 It's five or 10 minutes with just thoughts on the Raiders.
23:41 Maybe I get a phone call from a player or a text or something from a coach or a scout
23:47 or something from somewhere else.
23:49 And it's just a little bit of one tidbit of information that we want to pass on to you.
23:53 We give it to you every day.
23:55 You can check it out there.
23:56 So from all of us to all of you, thanks for joining us.
23:58 It's going to be a big weekend, big weekend for the Raiders.
24:03 And then they go into some time where everyone's kind of waiting to see what happens.
24:07 What will Mark Davis do?
24:08 We'll have all the coverage for you right here on Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation, Las
24:12 Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast.