Yourcinemafilms.com | Critically-acclaimed actor and playwright David Alade gets candid about his early experiences in the industry and how his highly regarded play 'Sunny Side Up' has become a surprising legacy tribute to his father.
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FunTranscript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Welcome to Industry Notes today,
00:07 where we really just get to the bare bones
00:10 of the industry in terms of the truth
00:14 and how our guests are really paving the way
00:19 of their success, because a lot of the times
00:23 you can't pick all of that stuff out
00:25 from an acceptance speech.
00:28 Our guest today is, I hope I'm saying this right.
00:32 I'll say multi-hyphenate, but reason being multi-hyphenate
00:36 because he acts, he writes, I'm sure he directs
00:40 and also produces.
00:42 - One day, one day.
00:44 (laughing)
00:46 - But yeah, no, I introduced to you David Alladay
00:51 and we're really excited to have you bro.
00:53 (imitating a dog barking)
00:55 - Thank you for having me man, thank you, thank you.
00:57 Nice, all good.
00:59 As always, I'm gonna go straight in.
01:01 Like it's really amazing just watching your trajectory.
01:07 I was touching on this before we started recording,
01:12 but I think seeing you go from like acting to writing,
01:17 it feels like, you know, like when you're watching
01:22 a video game, right?
01:23 And as you progress through the game,
01:26 you start picking up new skills and like new weapons.
01:29 So at the beginning, you start off with a knife
01:32 or your fists and then by level eight,
01:35 you've got the rocket launcher and the machine gun.
01:38 Yeah, do you know what I mean?
01:40 So that you can face the big bosses and all of that stuff.
01:43 And I feel like that's what we're watching with you.
01:46 But if I take it back to the beginning, it'll be amazing.
01:48 I really just wanna understand like,
01:51 where did acting like first start for you?
01:56 - I probably got a bit more of a musician story
01:59 'cause acting started for me in the church.
02:01 So yeah, I was a part of my church's drama group,
02:05 drama club, whatever it was.
02:07 I was about 14 and we would meet every Tuesday
02:11 and I didn't see a career.
02:14 I didn't even see a talent in it.
02:15 I just loved making people laugh.
02:18 I was the youngest in the group.
02:19 Everyone was older than me.
02:20 And I was literally there on some,
02:22 how am I gonna make them laugh this week?
02:23 How am I gonna make them laugh?
02:24 That was all it was.
02:25 That was all it was until I guess some of the older people
02:29 in the group took it a bit more serious
02:30 and we started working on skills
02:32 and trying to refine stuff.
02:34 And that's when I was like, okay, cool.
02:35 Maybe I've got a nick for this.
02:37 How do I start to sharpen it,
02:39 but properly looked up identity drama school
02:43 as most of us did.
02:44 (laughs)
02:45 I joined there and then, yeah, since then,
02:49 that's when it kind of became, okay, cool.
02:51 I wanna do this.
02:52 Ended up getting signed by the agency
02:53 and I was repped by them for a couple of years.
02:55 And then I moved to Middleweight Newton.
02:57 And yes, it's been history ever since.
03:00 - Wow.
03:01 So you know what, right?
03:02 Dialing back the plays that you were doing at church
03:06 or the drama group at church, right?
03:08 What age was that?
03:09 Like what age was it like,
03:10 do you know what, actually, let me try this thing.
03:12 - I probably said, okay, I wanna have a go at this
03:17 when I got to college.
03:19 So I was doing these plays when I was in secondary school.
03:21 I was like 14, 15, 16.
03:23 And I'm not sure if you know much about church,
03:26 but church plays probably go on like
03:27 three or four times a year
03:29 and there's loads of rehearsals to it.
03:30 And then it just pulls in a church audience anyway.
03:33 It's usually a good message behind a play
03:35 and then it's done.
03:36 And I still never was on acting then
03:39 because I wanted to be a footballer.
03:41 Bro, I wanted to be a footballer so badly.
03:43 I was decent.
03:43 I was all right.
03:44 My big brother had his fingers
03:48 in like the football hierarchy and whatnot.
03:51 He was a scout for a bit.
03:52 He trained at Luton.
03:54 He was a coach at Fulham.
03:55 And I used to go on trials at different clubs and whatnot.
03:58 It never really worked,
03:59 but I guess I'm probably a better actor.
04:01 - You should have been in red pitch.
04:04 - In it, in it.
04:05 - Wow, okay, interesting.
04:10 So, right, so then you decided, all right, cool.
04:15 You know what, I wanna actually like pursue acting.
04:19 And then you went to identity.
04:21 What was that like for you?
04:22 - It was probably my first time being in a place
04:28 where I was like, no, I wanna really smash this.
04:33 The attitude I kinda came into that class,
04:35 when I think back on it,
04:37 it's kinda strange that I was thinking like that.
04:38 Every week I would come in, I'd be like, no,
04:40 I have to be the best in the class.
04:42 Like, that was just kind of my mindset, like, no,
04:45 I have to make sure everyone in here
04:47 knows I'm a sick actor.
04:50 And I guess it's not super helpful
04:54 because this is an extremely objective industry.
04:58 No one's a good actor, bad actor, exercise,
05:01 you know what I mean?
05:02 It's just taking on roles
05:03 and being able to fulfill them, essentially, right?
05:06 But back then I was always kind of after my teachers,
05:10 thumbs up, oh, you've been good, you've been amazing,
05:12 you've been amazing.
05:13 Just because I knew how the school worked,
05:15 we needed to make sure we was in a place
05:18 where you could get yourself an agency read,
05:20 which would be a chance to be signed by the agency, right?
05:23 So it was in terms of like,
05:25 whether that be off your teacher's recommendation,
05:27 whether that be off the showcase at the end of the year,
05:29 or an agent coming to run one of your classes,
05:31 I really wanted to make sure
05:33 I was coming in with my A game every week,
05:35 do you know what I mean?
05:36 And that's kind of,
05:37 that's probably what I put down my success,
05:41 if you call it, at the school.
05:43 'Cause I got signed after, I think my second term,
05:45 which is good.
05:46 And when I went in there, I was like, I wanna get signed.
05:49 I joined that school, like, I'm here to get an agent.
05:53 I'm not here for like anything else.
05:55 I wanna be here, get an agent,
05:57 start my career kind of thing.
05:58 - Wow. - And yeah.
06:00 I guess that, channeling that thought
06:02 is probably what made that happen, right?
06:05 Some other people joined that school simply to train,
06:07 simply to just become better actors, which is cool.
06:10 Everyone has their own reasons for joining.
06:11 I was like, I'm joining to get an agent.
06:14 And yeah, it was the only avenue I knew, bro.
06:16 I'm a black boy growing up in Peckham
06:18 and John Boyega's just on "Star Wars," right?
06:22 And this is the only thing I'm seeing
06:24 in terms of someone from where I'm from
06:25 that looks like me in "Star Wars,"
06:28 how did you do it?
06:29 This is the school, let's go.
06:30 That was all like new.
06:33 I was so dumbfounded.
06:34 I had no clue about drama schools.
06:37 I didn't know about those things.
06:38 All I knew was, okay, cool, let's go, identity.
06:40 And that's why that's the only place I've ever trained.
06:42 - Wow, so how did you know, right?
06:44 How did you know that there was a possibility
06:49 of getting an agent?
06:51 Like before joining, how did you understand that?
06:55 'Cause I love the strategy.
06:57 I love that.
06:58 I'm like, what?
07:00 But I'm also curious as to like, how did you know that?
07:05 - Just research, really.
07:07 When you look at John's story and whatnot,
07:10 he puts a lot of his success down to like the aid
07:13 he had from Femi in the school.
07:16 And so when I saw that, I was just like,
07:18 "Oh, I want a piece of that."
07:19 Do you know what I mean?
07:20 Like, I wanna be able to journey like that
07:23 or be in a place where I know there's,
07:27 you know what I mean?
07:29 You can work a job at let's say retail, right?
07:33 And there's no growth in the role that you have.
07:35 But I knew if I joined this school,
07:37 there's literally a ladder and there's a route.
07:41 There's a route for me.
07:42 So I said, "Why not? Let's do it."
07:44 - I love that.
07:45 I love that.
07:45 And I love your clarity as well
07:48 in terms of clarity of purpose,
07:50 i.e. I'm coming here to be really good
07:54 and learn the agent, right?
07:55 I had a question.
07:58 I'm not an actor,
07:59 so I'm just literally asking this out of,
08:02 oh, I wonder if that's good, right?
08:05 In terms of, or not good,
08:07 but I'm just wondering something, right?
08:09 So in hindsight, now that you've finished,
08:12 you know, got your agent or got a new agent,
08:15 you're repped, long story short, right?
08:18 When you look back at that attitude and mentality, right?
08:22 Do you think that that was helpful
08:27 to have that mindset?
08:29 And the reason I ask, right,
08:31 is because sometimes there can be a fine line
08:35 between hunger and, what's the word?
08:40 It's not arrogance, but like being selfish, right?
08:46 So like with acting, being collaborative,
08:49 but then also, you know, you wanna be seen,
08:52 like all of those things are amazing.
08:54 How did you play that fine line between,
08:58 look, I wanna be good,
09:00 but then also not being that guy
09:03 that's like no one wants to work with
09:05 'cause it's all about him?
09:07 - Yeah, 'cause I would say it was almost impossible
09:11 because I think when you understand acting,
09:16 you understand it's a collaborative process.
09:18 So my hunger bled into all of these things.
09:23 So I would be wanting to work with everyone.
09:25 I would be wanting to mix up.
09:27 I would wanna, do you understand?
09:28 It never, ever made me not wanna work with people.
09:30 Made me wanna work with everyone in the class.
09:33 Like, do you know what I mean?
09:34 It made me wanna change partner every week
09:35 or blah, blah, blah.
09:36 It was things like that.
09:37 So hopefully the people I trained with
09:40 don't have a bad word to say about me.
09:42 I've loved working with every single one of them.
09:43 Do you know what I mean?
09:44 Like everyone that I've worked with,
09:45 I'm like, "No, they're sick."
09:46 Like everyone that I was in classes with,
09:48 I can vouch for today.
09:49 And be like, "No, that's amazing actor, yeah."
09:52 - I love that, I love that, I love that, I love that.
09:53 That's amazing.
09:54 And do you know what?
09:55 It's amazing that I haven't thought about it like that
09:58 in terms of your hunger to succeed
10:01 bleeding into all of the aspects,
10:05 especially collaboration.
10:07 That is, yeah, that's such an amazing answer.
10:10 Okay, cool.
10:11 So you finished, right?
10:13 You finished at the school.
10:14 Then what?
10:15 What happened?
10:17 Oh no, no, no, 'cause you're signed now, innit?
10:19 - Yeah, I was signed.
10:20 They helped me start my career, as you call it.
10:24 First thing I ever booked was a Tesco advert,
10:27 which was cool.
10:27 But it was also my first ever audition, right?
10:30 So I booked my first ever audition,
10:33 which is probably the worst thing that can happen.
10:36 'Cause then I suddenly think, "Oh, this is easy."
10:40 Do you know what I mean?
10:41 Like, the first ever auditioning I walk into
10:43 is a Tesco commercial.
10:45 I smile and push a trolley and they're like, "He's got it."
10:48 And I go away like, "This is gonna be bloody easy."
10:52 And I'm quickly met with, "No, it isn't gonna be easy."
10:55 Do you know what I mean?
10:55 When you then go months without booking anything,
10:58 and then you're like, "God, this is tough."
11:01 Do you know what I mean?
11:03 I definitely felt like a fish out of water
11:07 doing screen auditions in terms of self-tapes, right?
11:09 Or even going into the room
11:11 and having to do a screen audition where I have to act.
11:13 I remember being so confused, man,
11:17 because I felt so free with acting on stage
11:21 and not there being a camera.
11:23 I didn't even understand how to do a screen audition.
11:25 I didn't understand stillness.
11:26 I didn't understand looking at someone
11:30 that you're acting with.
11:32 Everything was still melodramatic.
11:33 Everything was still,
11:35 you could get away with doing it on stage.
11:37 Do you know what I mean?
11:38 I remember coming out of one audition,
11:39 I think it was for a small couple lines in EastEnders,
11:44 and believing that audition.
11:46 And I was probably like, "Damn,
11:49 "what did I just go and do in that room?"
11:51 I know I've just done nonsense.
11:53 I don't understand how to audition in front of a camera.
11:56 I had no clue.
11:57 I remember calling my agent and being like,
11:58 "Look, is there any way I can learn how to do this more,
12:03 "X, Y, Z?"
12:05 She provided a few avenues and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
12:07 At the time, I was still training at the school.
12:09 So I remember having a really good teacher back then
12:13 called Chris Simpson,
12:13 and he really taught screen like no other.
12:18 I hold onto some of the things he taught,
12:22 like in terms of literally being still on camera,
12:26 in terms of even tightening your laterals,
12:28 your back muscles to be able to project a deeper voice
12:32 or a more sterner voice.
12:34 And yeah, that's where I kind of learned most of,
12:37 "Okay, cool, this is how you do a screen audition."
12:38 Do you know what I mean?
12:39 But I would say for a large part of the beginning of my career
12:43 I had no clue what I was doing
12:44 in terms of doing the self-tape
12:45 or going to an audition where they're gonna put on a camera
12:48 and you're gonna see that red light,
12:50 and then they're just gonna read lines to you.
12:51 Oh, I used to dread it.
12:53 Yeah.
12:55 - Wow.
12:56 So that's so interesting in terms of,
13:00 being comfortable with stage,
13:03 but then still finding your feet
13:05 in those early stages with screen, right?
13:08 Tell me a bit about the stage side of things
13:14 when you finished,
13:15 like your background in plays and all of that stuff.
13:20 - Okay, 'cause of church and everything's in church,
13:24 stages and all. - True.
13:26 Yep, yep, yep.
13:27 - I had no problem with like projecting my voice.
13:30 I wasn't like stage fright.
13:32 Obviously you feed off adrenaline and nerves and stuff,
13:34 but I wasn't scared on stage.
13:36 Do you know what I mean?
13:37 I went to university, Anglia Ruskin.
13:39 I done drama there.
13:41 And everything we did there was on stage too.
13:43 So we would have plays at the end of your first year,
13:46 your second year, your third year.
13:47 We done "Hamlet."
13:48 I played the uncle.
13:51 And it was really, it helped.
13:56 It definitely helped me refine things on stage
13:58 in terms of like, right, this is how you project
14:00 without a mic.
14:00 This is how you hold stage presence, confidence,
14:03 things like that, yeah.
14:04 And I would say to me, that wasn't really taught.
14:09 Do you know what I mean?
14:10 I would say that was God that gave me that.
14:12 Like, okay, go back on stage and just do this.
14:14 Do you know what I mean?
14:15 And I would say all of those things there
14:18 helped with doing stage auditions later.
14:21 I wouldn't say I've done like loads of plays in it,
14:24 but I would say the plays I have done have been quite good.
14:26 So I've always want to look at like "The Fisherman"
14:29 and doing it in Trafalgar Studios
14:31 and touring in Edinburgh and Nottingham
14:34 and even Canterbury.
14:36 And I loved that show.
14:37 Like that to me was just like,
14:40 one of the best shows I could ever do.
14:41 It's two Nigerian boys, it's set in Nigeria,
14:43 me and Valentine,
14:44 and we're just having so much fun on stage.
14:47 And I think you learn most on the job.
14:49 And I would say I learned almost everything
14:51 I needed to know on that job.
14:52 - Like, what was that like?
14:55 And what did you learn?
14:56 'Cause that, yeah, you're right.
14:57 Like, that is amazing.
15:01 And it's not a small play.
15:02 Do you know what I mean?
15:04 - The first thing it taught me
15:05 was that Nigerians are allowed to be on stage, right?
15:10 That was the first thing it taught me,
15:12 that Africans, African kids in their own dialect,
15:16 in their own, in their own tonations, right?
15:20 Their own lingos are allowed to be on stage.
15:23 I remember being just taken back by how African the play was
15:27 and how white the audience was.
15:29 Do you know what I mean?
15:30 But still seeing, okay, no, they're here to listen to us.
15:33 We're not gonna bend or fold to make them understand.
15:38 Do you know what I mean?
15:38 And people still love the play
15:39 because, you know what I mean?
15:40 Acting is this universal language
15:42 and emotion is this universal language.
15:43 So I think that was the first thing it taught me.
15:45 Africans can be on stage.
15:47 And then the second thing it taught me
15:49 was like effective multi-role, right?
15:52 There's two characters, there's two people in this play,
15:55 but there's about eight characters in this play.
15:57 We play mom, we play dad, we play the other brothers,
15:59 we play police officers in the village,
16:01 we play madmen, right?
16:03 I play a madman called Abulu in the village.
16:05 And I think doing all of that,
16:08 that's why "Fishermen" just felt like the deep end for me.
16:10 And it taught me so much.
16:11 And big shout out to Bola Hand, the writer,
16:13 and Jack, the director.
16:15 That play is just amazing.
16:16 I've still got people who came up to me,
16:18 I think as late as last year,
16:20 said, "No, I saw you in 'Fishermen,'
16:21 "that's the best thing I've ever seen."
16:22 Do you know what I mean?
16:23 "Fishermen" was back in 2019.
16:25 So yeah, that play taught me a lot.
16:28 It taught me a lot.
16:29 And those are things I hold on today.
16:31 And those are things that you still see in my writing today.
16:34 So yeah.
16:35 - Man, I can see the enjoyment on your face, man,
16:38 just going back to it.
16:40 That's amazing.
16:41 You said, wow, sorry.
16:43 You said something deep that really just spoke to me.
16:48 Just in terms of like, wait,
16:51 like we're allowed to be on stage.
16:53 That was like, whoa.
16:56 - Yeah, man.
16:57 I think everything I've seen before then
17:00 was either Shakespeare
17:02 or just people talking with their normal accents,
17:05 British accents, or kind of American or something.
17:08 But to see like an African on stage,
17:11 and it's not for comedic reasons, right?
17:14 We're just gonna come and witness this play.
17:17 There's gonna be funny things, yeah,
17:18 but "Fishermen" is a tragedy, right?
17:20 So we're gonna come and watch this play
17:22 and we're gonna hear these accents, but not to laugh.
17:25 We're gonna hear them for who they are.
17:27 To me, I was like, wow, this is nuts.
17:30 Like people get to see my mom on stage,
17:33 my dad on stage, stuff like that.
17:35 Yeah, that's what really was like, okay,
17:37 I love this show, yeah.
17:39 - Man, that is, wow, I love this job.
17:42 So, all right, cool.
17:46 It seems so far at this point in the story
17:51 that everything is about acting.
17:53 What made you start picking up the pen?
17:55 - University.
17:59 So in my final year, you have to do a dissertation, right?
18:03 And mind you, university to me,
18:05 I'm sure everyone's, oh, it's a waste of time.
18:08 To me, I feel like all of it was a waste of time,
18:10 bar this, bar my dissertation.
18:13 So my dissertation, it was like, cool, you have to,
18:17 where I do drama, you can split your percentages.
18:22 You could do something performative and something written,
18:25 but you just have to say which is which.
18:27 So I was like, cool, I'm gonna go for,
18:29 I think I went for 60/40 or 50/50,
18:32 like even 50 performance and 50 writing.
18:35 And there was a topic in university that I really loved,
18:38 which was verbatim.
18:39 And verbatim's a, it's a writing technique,
18:41 it's a drama technique, something like that.
18:43 And it's when you take real stories,
18:46 like if we were to record this conversation
18:48 and I use real things you said
18:49 in text to make a show,
18:53 but we still say the real things that you said.
18:56 So- - And is it all,
18:57 every single bit that is,
18:59 that is every single bit of dialogue in the play is,
19:02 has to be- - No, no.
19:05 There are real things that you've said,
19:07 or I take what you said and create what you said.
19:09 - Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. - Know what I mean?
19:10 Yeah. - There's strong reference.
19:12 All right, cool, yeah.
19:13 - I understand, so I went to Anglia Ruskin in Cambridge
19:18 and obviously Cambridge is a really white city,
19:21 the lectures are really white and whatnot.
19:23 So I thought to myself, cool,
19:23 how do I bring London to disc?
19:25 Because if I do that, there's no way I can fail.
19:28 There's no way they can tell me I'm wrong, right?
19:29 I thought I've got to do something
19:31 that no one can tell me,
19:32 oh no, that's not that, right?
19:35 So I'm from London, I'm from Peckham.
19:37 I've had my experience in postcode nonsense and whatnot.
19:41 I'm gonna look at performativity in postcode wars.
19:44 That's what I went for.
19:46 The fact that, obviously when I was growing up,
19:48 it's less now, but different areas
19:50 had different color bandanas, costumes.
19:53 If you were to bump into your opposition,
19:57 how would you react?
19:58 How would you perform?
19:59 Fights in the streets were considered the stages, right?
20:03 So that's what I wrote my essay about.
20:06 And then I went away and I wrote a short 30 minute play,
20:10 which became Fox Hunting,
20:13 which was about some stories that I took from my friends
20:15 who had experiences in knife crime.
20:16 One was my own when I got stabbed
20:18 and then some was like an arrest.
20:20 Another one was someone inflicting something
20:22 on someone else.
20:23 And I just wrote three characters
20:25 who each told their story
20:27 and called two of my friends from my identity
20:29 to come up to Cambridge and perform it with me at my uni.
20:34 And wow, got first class, won an award at graduation,
20:37 all of that.
20:38 And I was like, okay, cool.
20:39 Do you know what I mean?
20:40 Then when I finished,
20:42 I got some encouragement from my family.
20:43 Like, look, why don't you take that small little 30 minutes
20:45 and do a play.
20:47 Got amazing financial help from my oldest sister.
20:50 I chipped in a little bit,
20:51 but obviously the majority was from how I'm fresh out of uni.
20:53 I've got no money.
20:54 And then we put on this play at Courtyard.
20:58 I took the same friends I performed with at uni,
21:01 added two more.
21:03 Had five different stories and I went to get more.
21:05 And I would say it was like my first jab
21:08 at just putting something on.
21:09 And it went well, do you know what I mean?
21:11 Like off West End reviews,
21:12 we were getting fours and fives and like,
21:15 yeah, it was just,
21:17 it was to me, it was like my first stab at it.
21:18 'Cause when I look at it,
21:19 I think it's, I don't think it's all that right.
21:21 But people today still say that,
21:22 no, no, it was a decent play.
21:23 Like it was a good play.
21:24 So yeah, that was like my first stab at writing.
21:27 - I, you know what, that's deep, right?
21:30 Because I'm like,
21:32 when I think of like,
21:35 like who was it?
21:38 I'm trying to think if it was just one or a few.
21:42 No, no, no.
21:42 So it's three people.
21:43 So it's Daniel Bailey, Abraham Adeyemi and Nelson.
21:48 You know the Nelson I'm talking about?
21:52 - No, no, Nelson.
21:53 - Adeyosa.
21:54 I think his surname's Adeyosa.
21:56 - Okay.
21:57 - But, you know, he's amazing.
22:00 After award winning and all that stuff.
22:01 Nelson, we love you.
22:03 I know your name,
22:04 your surname begins with an A and a D.
22:06 But, you know, amazing like experts in their field, right?
22:12 They started off doing plays,
22:16 but they were putting on these plays and stuff, right?
22:19 And it wasn't that.
22:23 Like at the beginning, you know, like,
22:26 in the stories when I've spoken with them,
22:29 their first play wasn't getting like,
22:31 - Oh, yeah.
22:32 - Off of like reviews and critical acclaim,
22:36 do you know what I mean?
22:37 So I find that amazing, to be fair.
22:42 Did you realize that that's not a small thing?
22:46 - No, no.
22:48 To this day, I don't.
22:49 Like to this day, I don't.
22:50 Because I just felt like I was,
22:53 like I would say I love my community, right?
22:55 If I say I'm doing something, they're coming out,
22:59 they're gonna help me sell it out.
23:00 That's just my community.
23:01 I love them to bits.
23:02 And I always let them know that you lot are behind me,
23:04 you lot are my backbone,
23:05 because whenever Dave is doing something,
23:07 Dave's name's on something,
23:08 you lot are like, we're showing up, right?
23:09 And that's what I love about them.
23:11 So that's what I just put it down to.
23:12 I put it down to the fact that I've got a good network.
23:14 I've got a good community behind me, right?
23:16 So, no, I didn't.
23:18 And it's also why I didn't write anything
23:21 after that for ages.
23:22 Do you know what I mean?
23:24 So, 2019, and fair enough,
23:26 the pandemic went and stole two years of my,
23:28 no, no, no, Fox Hunting was 2018.
23:30 - Yeah, yeah.
23:31 - And then after that, I suffered a loss.
23:32 Now, I mean, I lost my dad.
23:33 So then that kind of put,
23:35 sent me on a bit of a, off, like, off tangent.
23:39 And then 2019, I ended up doing Fisherman.
23:41 And then following it,
23:42 the pandemic steals two years from us.
23:44 So I kind of feel like I just fast forwarded till now,
23:48 innit?
23:49 - And you weren't really trying to be a writer like that.
23:52 - I understand.
23:53 I wasn't just- - The thing that you did.
23:54 Yeah, yeah.
23:55 - Yeah, it was more on a, like,
23:56 look, I can't sit down and wait for auditions.
23:58 I can't sit down and wait for opportunities.
24:00 I have to make them.
24:01 That's just who man is, is who my people are.
24:04 Like, we don't sit and wait.
24:05 Do you know what I mean?
24:06 We're always gonna be like,
24:07 "Oh, bro, what can we do?
24:09 And how can you lot help?"
24:10 That's just how you have to,
24:12 because, bro, you're gonna,
24:13 you'll catch dust before someone's like,
24:15 "Here's a lead role in a new Disney plus sit,"
24:18 do you know what I mean?
24:19 Like, so what's the point?
24:20 Yeah.
24:22 - I love that, I love that, I love that.
24:24 So, cool.
24:25 Fox hunting many years ago.
24:28 Sonny signed up.
24:30 What prompted that?
24:34 I mean, obviously I know the plays about your dad
24:37 and my condolences,
24:40 and it kind of been easy as well, do you know what I mean?
24:42 - Yeah, yeah.
24:44 - Yeah, what made you actually put the play together?
24:48 - I would say my dad is a huge character, right?
24:52 He was a huge character.
24:54 He was always in support of what I was doing,
24:57 things like that.
24:57 My siblings have always been in support of what I was doing.
25:01 And I kind of look at my family in a different way
25:06 and we're characters.
25:08 And every time I look at them,
25:09 I'm like, "Bro, this story needs to be told."
25:12 My oldest sister, I used to say,
25:13 when I was really, really young,
25:15 "I really wanna put cameras everywhere
25:16 and just record us and just put it out there
25:17 'cause we're so funny."
25:18 And she used to say that, right?
25:20 So I think when my dad passed, I was like,
25:22 "Bro, there's no way the world isn't gonna meet this man."
25:26 Do you know what I mean?
25:27 Like, there's no way, like,
25:29 it just felt like his death was going in vain
25:32 if I didn't tribute him in some way or another
25:36 in the arts, right?
25:38 How's that cool?
25:39 Sonny signed up, took me how many years to write?
25:44 I think about three years, right?
25:45 As soon as "Fisherman" was finished,
25:47 'cause this is what I shouted to Bolan again,
25:49 and it was an amazing pen game, right?
25:51 And I said Africans could be on stage.
25:54 I was like, "Wait, so what stops me
25:57 from putting my family on stage?"
25:59 As soon as "Fisherman" was finished,
26:00 I started the draft of "Sonny Signed Up."
26:01 I think I wrote one paragraph
26:02 'cause it took me so long to write.
26:04 Took me three years to write, right?
26:06 Well, two years and a bit to write.
26:07 Just because it was so personal
26:08 and I was struggling on how do I tell this story.
26:12 I remember one of the drafts I wrote
26:14 was basically a David play.
26:15 And it lost all my dad's essence.
26:18 And somebody who'd read that draft was like,
26:19 "You sure this is about your dad?"
26:21 Like, why don't you go back through
26:23 and just ask yourself the question,
26:25 where was my dad when this was happening?
26:26 Where was my dad when this was happening?
26:27 And then when I started putting my,
26:29 it made therapy, it made a mad play.
26:33 Do you know what I mean?
26:34 It made the play when I started thinking,
26:36 okay, where was he in these stages of my life?
26:40 And that massive journey, obviously,
26:44 is what made "Sunny Side Up."
26:47 I was always, like, I wanted to do the play
26:49 at Theatre Peckham.
26:50 That was kind of,
26:52 I had no connection to Theatre Peckham, mind you.
26:53 I'd never even been there.
26:55 Never even been there,
26:55 but I was like, "It has to be at Theatre Peckham."
26:57 Just because this play's set in Peckham.
26:59 I wanted it to feel very rich in terms of the soil.
27:04 You know what I mean?
27:05 This is the place that I've grown.
27:06 I've never been to Nigeria, obviously.
27:09 And that was off the back of, like,
27:11 we're growing up in, like, working class poverty, right?
27:16 There's five kids.
27:18 And when I think about it today,
27:19 where the hell is my mum and dad gonna get money to fly
27:21 all seven of us to Nigeria, right?
27:22 So there was never that.
27:24 So this is where I called home, Peckham.
27:26 So I was like, "I have to go to Theatre Peckham."
27:28 Sent my draft through to them.
27:31 They gave me some notes.
27:33 I made another draft,
27:35 and I got contacted by a producer
27:37 that worked there at the time.
27:39 And he was like, "Yeah, we're thinking of doing it.
27:41 Send me a draft by this day."
27:42 And then I joined their rep company,
27:43 'cause I wanted to get a bit more in the building.
27:45 Joined their rep company to train a little.
27:47 Suzanne had a read of it.
27:51 She had also suffered some losses, parents.
27:55 And she connected with it in that way, right?
27:58 She didn't come to me on some, I wanted to direct it.
28:00 She came to me on some, like, "Look, I connect with this."
28:04 Do you know what I mean?
28:05 And that's where we found that relationship to be like,
28:06 "Cool, let's do it."
28:08 So I'd done it at the,
28:09 they put on their Fringe Festival 2022.
28:12 And I'd done it at their Fringe,
28:13 which was a slightly shorter version in the studio,
28:16 with no staging.
28:18 And it was good.
28:18 Four shows, and my community came up.
28:20 I mean, they had sold it out before it started.
28:22 Do you know what I mean?
28:23 It was sold out before I started the shows here.
28:25 My community again.
28:26 And then Theatre Peckham was like,
28:28 "No, let's commission this.
28:29 Let's give it a go."
28:31 Then we did it this year for three weeks.
28:34 Yeah, it went well.
28:36 It went well, and now we're trying to create a tour for it,
28:39 hopefully for next year.
28:41 So yeah.
28:42 - Man, man.
28:43 I love that.
28:46 Well done.
28:47 Well done, man.
28:48 Well done.
28:49 You, like, that is an amazing journey.
28:53 Very organic, very truthful.
28:55 You know, you said something, right?
29:00 About like, "Look, I wanted to get into the building
29:04 and join in their rep company."
29:07 And I guess, as I'm speaking to you,
29:09 you are very smart and strategic, and I love it.
29:14 And I don't mean that in like a vindictive,
29:16 calculated sort of way that, you know,
29:18 some people can use those skills for like,
29:20 in a negative way.
29:21 (laughing)
29:23 I love, the reason I love it, right,
29:24 is because I feel like, you know, sometimes,
29:29 like there's something that I guess,
29:33 kind of pushing at the moment,
29:34 is like how important theatre is and how helpful it can be
29:38 by just engaging with the art form
29:42 and the theatres that are putting on
29:43 all these amazing plays, right?
29:45 But then I feel like some people don't understand
29:51 the actual routes to get into those buildings.
29:55 So can you explain what it meant to join the rep company
30:00 and what that was actually like?
30:02 - I think theatres are like,
30:04 well, most theatres, hopefully,
30:06 they're like families, right?
30:08 So from the artist director to the producers,
30:12 to, they're like a family, right?
30:14 So if you wanna do work at theatre,
30:16 and I can, I know people who have done this as well.
30:19 Like, I know people who have done this
30:20 concerning the Almeida, right?
30:21 Try and get in the building,
30:25 whether that's through their schemes or their classes
30:27 or their rep companies, if they have one.
30:30 Most theatres put on some kind of training or programme
30:33 for either writers and acts and stuff like that, join it.
30:35 Join it, and then you'll understand how that theatre works,
30:39 and you can build your network,
30:40 communicate with the people there,
30:42 tell them you have ideas, things like that.
30:43 Like, cool, I had sent my play to a theatre peck
30:45 and before I found a way in,
30:47 but remember, this is off the back of the pandemic.
30:50 So there really wasn't a way in, right?
30:52 So I had sent my play,
30:53 and then I heard they were doing a rep company,
30:55 and I thought, look, I've just been sat at home
30:58 for the last two years.
30:59 I had done a play during the pandemic, like over Zoom,
31:02 but it was over Zoom, do you know what I mean?
31:04 Like, I've been sat at home for the last two years,
31:06 let me go and sharpen these muscles again.
31:08 So I was like, let me go theatre peck 'em.
31:11 One, it's local.
31:12 Two, it's where I want to put my play,
31:13 so it gives me a chance to see these people face to face
31:16 and for them to feel my energy, right?
31:19 You're not gonna be able to feel me over an email.
31:21 If I can meet you and speak to you,
31:23 hopefully we get off to a good start
31:26 and you're more inclined to put on my play.
31:29 Do you know what I mean?
31:30 So that was kind of me getting into that building,
31:34 meeting people, knowing Suzanne at the time,
31:36 Toby was there, meeting Toby,
31:37 meeting the producers that was there,
31:39 and being like, cool, like I'm here, I act and I write,
31:42 and I want to know you guys.
31:44 That was just kind of the angle, yeah.
31:46 - I love that.
31:48 I love that.
31:49 - Thank you. - Thank those people.
31:50 So look, you've been nominated for Best Playwright
31:55 and Best Male Lead Actor in a Playwright
31:59 at the Black British Theatre Awards.
32:03 - Shout out, man.
32:04 Yeah.
32:05 - How does that feel, man?
32:06 - It feels good.
32:09 It feels good.
32:10 So I'm not good at these adjectives.
32:12 That's why I say good and well and stuff like that.
32:14 But yeah, no, it feels good.
32:15 - No, but you know what?
32:16 Like, I understand that, right?
32:18 And I guess the reason I'm asking is because
32:22 it's very clear that any accolades and things
32:26 that get added to you, right,
32:27 are not the reason why you did it.
32:30 - I understand.
32:31 - And it's like, I feel like,
32:34 I guess the reason I asked that question is because,
32:37 because this play has come from such a heartfelt place,
32:41 right, whether or not anyone showed up
32:44 or anyone liked it or not,
32:46 you know, like when you wear a good outfit, yeah,
32:49 and it doesn't matter if someone gets it or not.
32:51 You're just like, yeah, it's cool.
32:53 - Yeah, yeah.
32:53 - Yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't know this, Brian.
32:55 It's cool.
32:56 - Yeah, I mean.
32:57 - You don't get it.
32:58 Like, I'm like, oh, okay, cool.
33:01 But sold out, people love it.
33:05 You know, it expanded from your dissertation.
33:08 No, not from your dissertation,
33:09 but from the small fringe appearance.
33:14 And, you know, now we're thinking about a tour, et cetera.
33:19 I guess in that regard,
33:21 how does it feel that people are like, you know,
33:23 nominating you and, you know, like regarding you as like,
33:27 no, that was sick, you know?
33:29 - It feels more fulfilling that I'm able to
33:35 do something like this for like my dad and my family.
33:41 I think that's what kind of is like, right,
33:44 if I was going to do something and to be nominated
33:47 and we're going to tour and that, like, it's this.
33:49 And I think that to me surprises me, right?
33:52 So I would say that's the side that fulfills me.
33:54 I'm also someone that understands, right,
33:56 that awards and all these things
33:58 are still very opinionated, right?
34:01 There was still a bunch of people or one person who said,
34:04 oh yeah, that should be nominated,
34:06 but that was just their opinion, right?
34:08 There's also people who may have come to my play
34:09 and didn't like it.
34:10 That's just the reality.
34:11 And I'm fine with all those things,
34:13 'cause that's art.
34:14 Some people get it and some don't, right?
34:16 And that's why I would say good that, okay, yeah,
34:21 it was my work, but more fulfilled that what I set out to do
34:26 for like my dad's legacy and stuff like that
34:28 is coming to pass, do you know what I mean?
34:30 And I think that's the angle that helps me,
34:34 helps me want to do the show again.
34:38 That's the reality, because when I finished,
34:40 I was like, I don't know if I want to do it anymore.
34:42 But the reaction and people to this day saying to me,
34:46 oh, it's the best thing I've ever seen,
34:47 oh no, when's it coming back?
34:48 Makes me go, okay, cool, let's keep milking this couch.
34:50 You know what I mean?
34:51 That's just how I kind of look at it.
34:52 Let's keep going then, yeah.
34:54 - I love that, man.
34:55 I love that.
34:56 My bro, congratulations.
35:00 - Thank you, man.
35:01 - I'm so happy that we got to catch up
35:05 and our paths have crossed because yeah,
35:08 like I said, and I was saying before,
35:09 I've seen you in like a bunch of stuff.
35:12 And we even spoke about fox hunting.
35:14 Imagine that.
35:15 It's amazing that the world is really seeing you now.
35:23 Like, whether they do or don't, that's up to them, innit?
35:28 But I think for me personally,
35:31 I love seeing people who are talented,
35:34 like just rise and rise and rise and rise and rise and rise.
35:38 And that's what we're seeing with you.
35:41 - Thank you, man.
35:42 Thank you.
35:44 That's amazing.
35:45 Before I go, before we conclude,
35:47 what's the future looking like, man?
35:51 What's going on?
35:52 - I'd say right now, episode one of Still Up,
35:58 it's on Apple TV, I'm in that.
36:00 If you watch, if you've got access to AMC,
36:02 I'm in a show called Documentary Now,
36:04 Soldiers of Illusion, part one, I'm in that as well.
36:06 Stay tuned for Signing Side Up tour.
36:11 By God's grace, we're getting sorted.
36:13 It's not easy.
36:14 I'm also thinking of writing another play.
36:20 Yeah, I'm thinking of writing another play.
36:22 Everything I write is personal, so yeah,
36:24 as you can imagine, it could take long,
36:25 but hopefully it isn't as long as two, three years.
36:29 So yeah, I'm thinking of writing another play,
36:31 getting the bones of that down.
36:33 And yeah, trying to get into screenwriting as well.
36:37 Shout out my big brother, Tyrell Williams, man.
36:40 He just been holding my hand through,
36:43 trying to walk through, getting into screenwriting.
36:45 So yeah, trying to get into that as well.
36:47 So yeah, that's pretty much the future.
36:48 - I love it, I love it, I love it.
36:51 Well, we look forward to seeing the success
36:54 and we'll definitely be catching up soon, my bro.
36:56 Thank you.
36:57 - I appreciate you, man.
36:59 - See you later.
36:59 [MUSIC PLAYING]