Jake Shane, is a comedian that posts a hodgepodge of content: impressions of historical events, pranks and food reviews. While his videos are often lighthearted, they touch on serious issues too: his OCD, anxiety and mental health. His followers include big-name celebrities like the Jonas Brothers and Charli and Dixie D'Amelio. Earlier this year, he was featured on TikTok's debut LGBTQ+ Pride Visionary Voices List.
Jake Shane, known as Octopuslover8 on TikTok, shares his approach to looking at life as one big “bit.” Here’s how he’s using content to build a lucrative career, his expectations for the future of the creator economy and his big-screen goals.
Jake Shane sits down with Forbes Reporter, Alex York to discuss his viral TikTok strategy, what makes him a great creator, and his future career plans.
Jake Shane, known as Octopuslover8 on TikTok, shares his approach to looking at life as one big “bit.” Here’s how he’s using content to build a lucrative career, his expectations for the future of the creator economy and his big-screen goals.
Jake Shane sits down with Forbes Reporter, Alex York to discuss his viral TikTok strategy, what makes him a great creator, and his future career plans.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:03 - Hi everyone, I'm Alex York.
00:04 I'm a reporter at Forbes and I'm here with Jake Shane,
00:07 Octopus Lover 8 and TikToker and Under 30 honoree this year.
00:12 Jake, welcome.
00:12 - Ah, thank you for having me.
00:14 I'm so excited.
00:15 - Well, I'm so excited to chat with you.
00:16 I wanna talk about everything
00:18 from kind of your rise on social media
00:20 to now building a business and a career for yourself.
00:22 - Yeah.
00:23 - But before we get into that,
00:23 I wanna go back a little bit.
00:25 You're 24 now, you're under 30 years old.
00:27 When you were a kid,
00:28 did you envision yourself doing anything like this?
00:31 - I don't know.
00:36 I think I was, I think I had a hard time envisioning
00:39 what I was gonna do in the future as a kid,
00:41 just 'cause I'm like so anxious.
00:44 But I think I thought I was gonna work
00:45 in public relations of sorts.
00:48 I really liked crafting a message to an audience.
00:51 I always knew I was passionate about that.
00:53 I don't think I ever thought any of this
00:56 was ever gonna happen.
00:57 And I saw that people were getting success on TikTok.
01:02 And it was kind of like, it felt less permanent.
01:05 So it felt like something I can just kind of try at.
01:08 I never thought it would turn into what it's turned into.
01:12 I mean, I always joke,
01:14 'cause right before all of this happened,
01:17 I was so content.
01:19 I was a steady job.
01:22 I was doing TikTok.
01:23 I was like, all right, I'm good for life.
01:25 This is what I'm gonna do.
01:26 And then it all kind of just blew up in the moment.
01:29 So no, I was not expecting this at all.
01:31 - Yeah, it's super exciting.
01:32 And the rise of social media for you and so many others
01:35 has been so rapid.
01:36 But before you saw that success on social,
01:39 what were your career plans?
01:41 And what did you do for a job prior to really blowing up
01:44 and turning this into your career?
01:46 - I was the executive assistant to a president
01:48 at a record label.
01:49 I was really passionate about music.
01:51 I was talking to him about maybe going into A&R,
01:56 finding new acts.
01:57 I wanted to work in the music industry.
01:59 That was my plan.
02:01 And then things kind of changed.
02:04 - What inspired you to post your first TikTok?
02:07 - I would post on and off,
02:10 over the course of months in my junior year of college.
02:14 And then Taylor Swift's,
02:18 rad Taylor's version came out.
02:19 And I just filmed me and my two best friends reacting to it.
02:24 And it actually ended up going viral
02:26 and Taylor liked and commented on it,
02:28 which was like the best moment of my life.
02:30 And I was like, damn, this feels really good.
02:32 This is cool.
02:33 And then I, at the time,
02:36 was posting octopus reviews to my Instagram,
02:39 pass that puss.
02:40 And then someone was like, you should bring it to TikTok.
02:42 And I was like, right, okay.
02:46 And so I was like kind of bringing it to TikTok.
02:48 I was kind of lazy about it.
02:49 And then it was kind of moving the needle.
02:51 It kind of wasn't.
02:52 But then I stitched a video.
02:54 A year later, I just, it was like a funny stitch.
02:57 It was like a two second,
02:59 like little kind of like snippy,
03:02 like funny stitch and it blew up.
03:05 And then that's when I realized that,
03:07 okay, maybe I can start posting a lot
03:09 and just make it a thing.
03:12 We'll like, let's just see where it goes.
03:14 And I remember I went,
03:16 I had like a thousand followers at the time
03:18 and I hit 10,000 by January.
03:21 And I thought that was like the most in the world.
03:23 And then by February I was at 60,000
03:25 and then I was at a million by the end of February.
03:28 - That's so exciting.
03:29 Why do you think your content resonated
03:31 with the young audience
03:33 and the audience that you have so well?
03:36 - I think I've built a really,
03:38 really like passionate community.
03:41 I've just always been the type to interact with everyone.
03:45 I think I go through my DMs, I talk to everyone.
03:49 It's really like we're friends.
03:50 So I think kind of when I was, my video,
03:54 'cause I view my TikTok as just like a year long bit.
03:57 Like I'm doing different bits all the time.
03:59 The acting one, the skit one just so happened to stick,
04:03 but there was people that were around
04:05 for a lot of other bits.
04:07 So I think when the skits blew up
04:11 and me and all my followers were celebrating,
04:14 I think it almost like created this energy
04:16 that other people were feeling.
04:18 Maybe, I don't really know,
04:19 but I also, I honestly don't know
04:24 why those skits were the ones that blew up
04:25 because I know it's not really that uncommon
04:29 to do skits on TikTok.
04:30 I mean, I don't know why they blew up,
04:33 but I do know that the reason why
04:35 I've been able to make a career out of this
04:37 is because of how loyal and passionate my followers are.
04:42 - And then moving from the octopus taste testing
04:45 and all those different bits that you had
04:47 throughout the months and years
04:48 to now your comedy sketches
04:50 that are really, really thriving on the app,
04:52 you kind of kept that octopus lover brand
04:56 throughout the entire time.
04:57 Why was that?
04:59 Why do you think that holding onto that helped you
05:01 or did it help you or why did you hold on so tightly to that?
05:04 - Because I'm never,
05:06 I remember when everything happened
05:07 and I wanted to change,
05:09 the second I was getting more followers,
05:10 I wanted to change everything about myself.
05:13 I wanted to change my username.
05:14 I wanted to change my profile picture.
05:15 I wanted to change my bio.
05:16 I wanted to change this, this, that, and the other.
05:19 And I was like, okay,
05:20 but that's not why 60,000 people were there before this.
05:24 And I think it's important to really just never forget
05:29 who your real authentic self is.
05:32 'Cause I think that's what really shines
05:35 at the end of the day.
05:36 And I just, I felt like it was a disservice to me
05:39 and a disservice to like what I've created
05:42 up until this blow up to get rid of all the octopus stuff,
05:45 because I had been doing it for two years prior.
05:48 And I just felt like it was such a,
05:49 I just felt like it was a disservice
05:51 to everything I'd created up until then.
05:53 - Yeah.
05:53 I wanna know too,
05:55 in terms of your strategy with these skits,
05:58 a lot of it, I'm sure you are inspired by,
06:01 whatever in your life and you create a skit on that.
06:02 But a lot of it too is based on viewer comments.
06:05 And I'm so curious because comments are such a crucial part
06:10 of the platform in terms of like virality and engagement
06:12 and getting your content in front of more people
06:15 and in front of people's eyes.
06:16 Was that a conscious decision to increase engagement
06:19 by doing the comments as your next skits
06:21 or where did that come from?
06:23 - So it actually came from Julia Fox did like people
06:27 commenting and telling her what to act out and she did it.
06:31 And it really came from this feeling of like me,
06:33 just, I really do just like to engage with the community.
06:36 I really, really didn't know that it was gonna take off
06:38 the way it did.
06:39 And it almost feels like when a comedian does crowd work
06:44 during standup, it feels like a virtual stage
06:47 doing virtual crowd work.
06:49 And that's just how I view it.
06:50 I never really think about it in terms of like,
06:53 okay, well, if I respond to this person's comment,
06:55 it's gonna get in front of this many people.
06:56 I kind of do it just as if I'm like,
06:59 I know this sounds silly.
07:00 I view myself as like a internet character.
07:03 And like, I'm like, I have an audience
07:06 and I'm going off of what they said.
07:07 And it's like one big improv class.
07:09 - Has it helped though to be basing your content
07:12 off of those comments?
07:13 And I mean, algorithmically, like has that,
07:15 in your opinion, helped your viewership?
07:17 - Oh, I'm sure.
07:18 I'm sure because it encourages others to comment, I think.
07:21 I think, but I also do a bunch of other bits
07:26 that don't involve responding to comments.
07:28 Like I'll do pussy PSAs, I'll do my nimming videos,
07:31 I'll do what I had for lunch, I'll do take my meds with me,
07:34 I'll do my dances.
07:36 And then I think it's almost like a full show
07:39 with a bunch of different bits.
07:40 And then that part is my crowd work part.
07:43 - Yeah.
07:44 You mentioned earlier too,
07:44 that there are so many comedy creators
07:46 and you're not really sure, you know,
07:47 why you're struck a chord with so many audience members.
07:51 But in your strategy or your decision
07:53 to post certain types of content,
07:55 how do you try to differentiate yourself?
07:57 I mean, obviously the skits are one thing,
07:58 but a lot of people, like you said, do skits.
08:00 So from your opinion, from your perspective,
08:03 what really sets you apart
08:04 from the many, many other comedy creators on the app?
08:07 - I think it's, I think I'm just really, really, really,
08:13 I view my life as one big bit
08:15 and I section off my TikToks into bits
08:19 to keep people entertained.
08:20 So I'm not just doing skits.
08:22 I'll post three or four times a day.
08:23 One will be a skit, one will be a pussy PSA,
08:26 one will be a dance, one will be a food review,
08:29 one will be take my meds with me, like one will be,
08:31 and it'll just be, like I'll view everything.
08:33 Like I lost my luggage once and I made it,
08:36 and I made it an entire skit
08:38 and then I started writing poetry.
08:40 So I think maybe the reason why I've been able
08:42 to cultivate something is because I'm almost creating
08:45 this sketch show that isn't just a one note,
08:50 it's not a one note bit, it's multifaceted.
08:53 There's like, I post like five times a day and each,
08:56 I make sure that each of the five is a different bit
09:00 so that when people are scrolling through my TikTok
09:01 at the end of the long day,
09:03 it's kind of like they're watching a mini sketch show
09:05 with different bits.
09:07 - With so many times posting a day,
09:09 so many different types of content and stuff
09:10 that you create, that's, I guess,
09:13 not part of your daily life,
09:14 like it is a character that you're putting on,
09:16 but also having the parts of your daily life
09:18 that you are sharing.
09:20 What is your relationship now with social media?
09:22 I mean, I feel like it's obviously helped you grow a lot,
09:24 but there are so many, in many cases,
09:26 either negative or all encompassing
09:29 and very mind intensive and mind and time consuming aspects
09:34 of being a social media creator.
09:36 How has your relationship with social media changed
09:38 or evolved from posting just for fun
09:40 to now it being a career of yours?
09:43 - Well, now that it's a career of mine,
09:46 I was always addicted to social media.
09:48 So that was never, that was not a new thing or whatever,
09:50 but now that it's a career of mine
09:52 and like a career is almost on the line,
09:55 I make a conscious effort to actually take time away
10:00 and watch TV or get inspiration from elsewhere
10:04 because if I'm just on social media all day,
10:07 then I can't think, I can't be creative,
10:11 I can't do anything.
10:12 So I think it's almost, yeah, I do try to make,
10:15 I try to, when I go to bed, I put my phone on the table
10:18 and I watch TV 'cause TV is where I get
10:21 all my inspiration from.
10:22 - Yeah.
10:23 When did you realize that this was turning
10:25 into an actual long-term and a career with longevity?
10:29 Was there a specific video, a number, a brand deal,
10:32 an experience or an event that really showed you
10:35 this is something that I can stick with
10:37 and really put my time and energy and life's work into?
10:41 - I think when I started discovering
10:48 that there were so many doors that can be opened
10:51 because of TikTok and because of the virality I had,
10:55 I think that's when I realized,
10:57 okay, I can make something out of this.
10:59 It's not permanent, but it's definitely more permanent
11:02 than it was before.
11:03 And I understand that the industry of virality
11:07 is so fickle as it is,
11:09 but once I realized there were doors opened
11:14 to things that were less fickle,
11:17 as long as I put my time and energy into those things,
11:19 I was like, okay, this is my career, this is my life,
11:22 and I'm going to work my ass off
11:25 to make sure that it stays that way.
11:27 - How do you determine the best business opportunities
11:30 for you?
11:31 And I'm sure that that has changed
11:32 from when you were just first gaining traction to now,
11:34 when you probably have more opportunities,
11:35 but is there a set of either guidelines or a checklist
11:39 that you ensure that any opportunity that comes your way
11:41 is really following?
11:43 - Yeah.
11:44 I think it's...
11:48 I think...
11:51 I try to make...
11:55 I think about my audience with everything I do.
11:58 Is it going to make sense?
12:00 So if I want to start a podcast,
12:03 is that going to make sense?
12:04 Would they care?
12:06 And I feel like I know my audience well enough
12:08 to really make that decision.
12:10 But in addition to my audience, I consult my friends
12:15 because this really, really, really...
12:16 And I know that sounds silly,
12:17 like why would you consult your friends
12:19 over business decisions?
12:20 But I really feel like the audience
12:23 is kind of like an amygdala of my friends.
12:25 Like I feel like we're all so similar
12:28 and like our humors are also similar.
12:29 So if my friends are like, this is so cool,
12:32 keep going with it, then I'll keep going with it.
12:34 Obviously, there's finances involved.
12:36 If I'm spending more money and not getting enough back,
12:38 then I'm like, okay, then is this really worth it?
12:40 But at the end of the day,
12:42 I'm still trying to figure that out
12:45 because it's almost like I'm investing in myself
12:48 and I have to take myself out of myself
12:52 and view me as a product and be like,
12:55 okay, how is this going to work?
12:57 So I'm still trying to figure it out,
12:59 which is why I hesitated at first.
13:01 But I really try to do things that are authentic to me
13:05 and that I'm really passionate about.
13:07 I'm like, if I can see myself working on this
13:10 for six months nonstop and be happy about it,
13:14 that is something I would like to do.
13:16 - And I think you're right though
13:17 in terms of asking your friends
13:18 because our generation knows the creator economy best.
13:22 We have created it and spearheaded it in many ways.
13:25 So I assume that that also informs
13:27 what the general public is going to be interested in,
13:29 like where our future interests or priorities
13:32 are going to lie when you have those conversations.
13:34 - Right, and if you were also referring to business
13:37 in terms of paid ads and stuff,
13:40 the number one thing I drive home with those
13:43 is that I need creative freedom
13:46 because then what's the point?
13:47 - Definitely.
13:48 - My audience isn't here to watch me sell a product,
13:52 but if I can sell that product and be really funny about it
13:55 because I have my creative freedom with it, let's do it.
13:58 - Yeah, and that was another question I had for you.
14:00 Is it ever difficult or is there ever any hesitancy
14:03 from brands to allow you to have complete creative freedom
14:07 given that certain either catchphrases
14:09 or whatever part of your brand
14:11 are not very corporate friendly?
14:13 How do those conversations work?
14:14 - They stop and start or they start and stop, sorry.
14:18 If they're like, okay, well,
14:19 we're not giving you creative freedom
14:21 and this is what you have to do,
14:22 then I probably won't do it.
14:23 - Totally.
14:24 Is there anyone that you go to in the industry,
14:25 whether that is a specific friend or another creator
14:27 or a business mentor to really ask these questions?
14:30 Someone who understands maybe the creative side of things,
14:32 but also the business side of the industry.
14:35 - Yeah, I go to two people.
14:38 I go to my old boss, Zach, about business stuff.
14:42 And when it comes to public perception
14:45 and really betting on yourself,
14:48 I go to my friend, Sophia,
14:49 because she's been in it for 10 plus years
14:52 or honestly, since she was a kid.
14:53 And I really just, I take her word on everything.
14:56 - Definitely.
14:57 You also made a comment that you sometimes
14:58 take yourself out of yourself
15:00 to look at yourself as a product.
15:02 Does that ever impact your mental health
15:04 to see yourself in that light,
15:06 as opposed to really looking at it from a personal
15:09 or a wellbeing perspective
15:10 and determining your decisions based on that?
15:12 - No.
15:14 - Okay.
15:15 - 'Cause I am so anxious about so many other things
15:17 that that's just the least of my,
15:20 I'm so anxious about my life in general
15:23 and if I'm breathing incorrectly,
15:24 that that's just like, okay, I'm working.
15:27 - Yeah, definitely.
15:28 Has it helped you to kind of separate
15:30 your business side of yourself from Jake as a person?
15:33 - I'll be like, okay, well, this is work.
15:35 - Yeah, definitely.
15:37 What is the best piece of business advice
15:39 that you have gotten from one of those two people
15:42 that you mentioned or other people
15:44 that you've talked to in the industry in general?
15:47 - Keep the people that were around you before,
15:49 keep them around after.
15:50 It's the most important thing I've learned.
15:52 - And the next thing I wanna ask about is,
15:55 in terms of the creator economy and our generation,
15:57 we've mentioned that your friends might know
15:59 what's the next big thing or what might pop off online.
16:04 Where do you see the creator economy going in the future
16:06 knowing that our generation and the generation below us
16:08 is kind of leading the charge?
16:10 - I think we're gonna see a really, really, really big focus
16:13 if we haven't already.
16:16 Less on trends, more on authenticity.
16:20 And I think the people that are gonna stand out
16:22 are people that are just fully themselves
16:25 and kind of view their life as a bit.
16:28 'Cause if you really think about Alex Earl,
16:30 it's not a funny bit, but it's a bit.
16:31 She's doing "Get Ready With Me."
16:33 She's really documenting her life.
16:37 And a bit, yeah, like I said, a bit doesn't have to be funny
16:39 but as long as the bit is true to you
16:43 and you're putting that on TikTok,
16:45 I think that is what we're gonna see more of.
16:47 Less dance trends and people,
16:50 I don't think people really care to see that as much.
16:52 I think people wanna see other people's lives.
16:55 It's almost like TikTok is kind of like,
16:58 it's feeling like what reality TV felt like
17:00 in the early 2000s.
17:02 You know what I mean?
17:03 It's feeling like this kind of insight
17:06 into other people's lives that we weren't getting before.
17:09 And I think today reality TV is obviously still
17:12 the huge biggest thing ever,
17:13 but I feel like it feels produced.
17:16 And I feel like as a society,
17:17 we gravitate to things that don't feel as produced.
17:19 And I think TikTok, whether it be produced or not,
17:22 people gravitate towards.
17:24 So I think people that share their lives in bits,
17:29 I think that is something we'll see a lot more of.
17:30 - Yeah, yeah, right.
17:31 I mean, like the first season of "The Kardashians"
17:33 is so different from the new season.
17:35 - It's crazy different.
17:36 - Yeah, how do you think that that's going to impact
17:38 business decisions and brand deals or brand partnerships
17:41 as content kind of continues to evolve?
17:43 - I mean, I've noticed that it's hard
17:47 for some brands to keep up sometimes,
17:50 but I think what's really important
17:53 is that if creators really push for creative freedom
17:57 in the ads that they do,
17:58 they will be, those ads will be more successful
18:02 than the other ads.
18:04 So hopefully brands will see that
18:07 and kind of almost allow the creators to take control
18:10 of how they're going to tell their product story
18:14 with whatever they're advertising.
18:15 - What is one thing that you would tell brand partners
18:18 in terms of finding either successful creators to work with
18:21 or finding ways to work with creators successfully?
18:23 Is there a piece of advice you have
18:24 for that side of the business?
18:25 - Yeah, trust the creator.
18:27 Trust them.
18:27 They know their audience the best
18:31 and you want that ad to do well, trust them.
18:35 - Definitely.
18:36 And as part of the under 30 community now,
18:39 I want to talk about age a little bit
18:40 'cause I think that different industries
18:42 have very different ideas about what age means
18:45 and how that impacts either success or trajectory
18:48 or longevity in a career.
18:50 How do you see age coinciding
18:51 with the social media space right now
18:53 and the work that you're doing?
18:55 - I mean, I worry every day.
18:57 I think about my age all the time
18:58 'cause I'm 24, I'm not 16,
19:01 and I feel like people get bored easily as I get older.
19:05 So I don't know.
19:07 It just, the older I grow,
19:09 the more I want to keep people entertained
19:10 'cause I want to stick around.
19:12 That's how I view my age.
19:13 - I know, when I turned 25 this year,
19:14 I had an existential crisis.
19:15 - Yeah, I mean, me every day.
19:17 I turned 24 and I was like, why am I not happy?
19:20 - I know.
19:20 So where do you see,
19:22 what do you think under 30 means to you then?
19:24 Either being part of this community
19:25 or being under that age,
19:26 what does that mean in your eyes?
19:28 - I mean, it makes me feel like I'm not the only,
19:33 like when I bet on myself, it's worth it
19:37 because other people are also betting on me
19:38 because the under 30 is kind of like a bet, right?
19:41 Like Forbes is kind of like,
19:42 we think these people are going to do great things.
19:46 So it feels, first of all,
19:48 I never thought I would ever be on any under 30 list ever.
19:51 I would always see it growing up.
19:52 Never ever thought I would come anywhere close to it.
19:54 So I woke up like absolutely floored.
19:57 But second of all, it is a really great feeling
20:00 that someone else that's not you
20:02 is also betting on your success.
20:04 - Definitely.
20:05 And why do you think you made the list?
20:07 I mean, there's, like I was mentioning earlier,
20:08 a long process and many people that either weigh in,
20:12 nominate, vote on the final 30.
20:15 What do you think about you and your career stood out?
20:18 - I think that my content is very silly.
20:21 It's very funny.
20:22 It's very lighthearted.
20:23 But at the end of the day,
20:25 I also understand it's a business
20:28 and I work out all the different facets of my business.
20:31 I have merch, podcast stuff coming up.
20:35 I have live shows.
20:36 I have TikTok ads.
20:38 I have overall brand deals.
20:40 I really build out each facet of my business.
20:44 And I think I view myself as not just a TikTok creator,
20:48 but as a business.
20:51 And I think that that is,
20:53 I mean, I hope that that's why I made the under 30 class
20:55 because I was also,
20:56 I think the most important part, sorry,
20:58 is that I was able to cultivate a really loyal audience.
21:02 A really, really loyal audience that I really connect with.
21:04 - Well, and I would venture to guess too
21:05 that you're on many people's For You pages.
21:08 Like you just are influential in the space
21:10 because of all those things that you've done,
21:12 the community that you've been able to create.
21:13 So I think that also made an impact.
21:16 - I hope.
21:17 - And the last thing I want to touch on
21:19 is your movement into the future.
21:21 You mentioned earlier that you know that social media
21:23 is not necessarily permanent for your career
21:26 or the industry in general.
21:27 Where do you hope to take this?
21:28 How do you think that being on social media now
21:30 and the community and the creator
21:32 that you've built for yourself
21:33 and the characters that you've built for yourself
21:35 are going to move into the future?
21:37 - I want to do a lot more live shows.
21:39 And I want to act really, really badly.
21:45 I know a lot of people laugh at me for it,
21:47 but I really do want to do that.
21:49 And I'm starting a podcast soon
21:51 and I would ideally like to start that podcast
21:53 and take it on the road.
21:55 And I think that's what will take me from,
21:57 I mean, that's what I hope will take me
22:00 from social media to traditional media.
22:03 - Yeah, do you think that that's going to be
22:04 a hard jump to make?
22:06 'Cause many creators have done it now,
22:07 but I think there's still a stigma around that leap.
22:11 - I think it's going to be hard,
22:12 but I'm ready to work.
22:13 I mean, I have been working
22:15 and I'm ready to continue working to make that transition.
22:17 - Yeah, well, that's super cool.
22:18 And the very last thing I want to ask you is
22:20 in terms of the under 30 community,
22:22 many of our viewers are under 30,
22:24 either listeners or aspiring listeners.
22:26 What's one thing that they might not know about you
22:28 that you want them to know?
22:30 - When success happens,
22:32 all the problems in your head that you have prior
22:35 about yourself and your image and your anxiety
22:38 and whatever, it doesn't go away.
22:41 Success does not make that go away at all.
22:44 If anything, it just kind of maybe it elevates it.
22:47 But I think, yeah,
22:50 that I still deal with the same shit
22:52 that I dealt with before.
22:53 - Do you have any advice on dealing with that?
22:55 'Cause I think a lot of people definitely go through that
22:57 on social media and everywhere else in this world.
23:00 - Yeah, watch TV.
23:01 That's my, it works better than therapy.
23:04 Transport yourself into another world.
23:06 - Yeah, what show are you watching right now?
23:07 - Girls, I'm rewatching.
23:08 - Oh, nice.
23:09 - Yeah, it's sick. - How exciting.
23:10 Well, thank you so much, Jake, for chatting today.
23:12 I'm so excited to get to know more about you
23:14 and the business that you're creating for yourself.
23:16 So thank you so much.
23:17 - Thanks for having me.
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