PODCAST: Reacting to the Frank Reich Firing
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00:00 This is Desmond Johnson on the Believe in Carolina Panthers Podcast here on the Believe
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00:41 I was going to play like Happy Days are Here Again or something like that, but this game
00:52 is such a, it's kind of a shock, but not really.
00:54 Welcome to Believe in Carolina Panthers, an emergency edition episode live here on the
01:00 Tobacco Road Sports Radio YouTube channel and the Believe Podcast Network.
01:02 I'm your host, Desmond Johnson, joined by Sports Illustrated Panthers beat writer, Skylar
01:07 Callahan, Panthers all-time lead in rusher, Jonathan Stewart, will be in shortly.
01:11 If you are not living under a rock, if you're a Panthers fan, you're already aware the situation
01:15 just came down from the front office.
01:18 Carolina Panthers relieve Frank Wright of his duties as head coach after 11 games in
01:23 the 2023 season.
01:24 The Panthers are off to their worst start of all time at one and 10 after a 17 to 10
01:29 defeat by the hands of the Tennessee Titans and rookie quarterback, Will Levis, who we
01:35 could have drafted at nine.
01:37 Skylar, your initial thoughts here.
01:39 We kind of thought that this could happen.
01:42 You actually mentioned this last week that it wasn't going to happen last week due to
01:45 the Thanksgiving holiday and some events they had planned around different things around
01:49 the city, but that if it could go down, this would be the week to start keeping an eye
01:53 on it and lo and behold, everything you said pretty much went down.
01:56 Yeah, I mean, it wasn't going to happen during last week.
01:59 You had the Thanksgiving stuff going on and you have the Thanksgiving day off for the
02:04 team.
02:05 That means if you would have done this last week, you're bringing in the guys on Thanksgiving
02:08 day and you don't want to do that unless you're actually playing a game on Thanksgiving day.
02:12 So I looked at this as this is really the first kind of test, if you will, to see if
02:19 Tepper would make a move because it's a winnable game, one of the very few that they have left
02:22 on the schedule.
02:23 And if it was going to be the same story that we've seen the previous 10 weeks, then you
02:29 could probably start to sense that this was going to come to a halt at some point.
02:33 And like I told you before we hopped on here, I don't know that firing Frank was a bad idea.
02:39 I think you can kind of tell that this was not going to work, but I maybe would have
02:45 given it another week or two.
02:47 And the only reason I say that is look, because you probably know that this was going to happen
02:52 but you want to be damn sure, right?
02:54 Like you're already paying money to Matt Rule, you're going to be paying money to Frank Wright,
02:59 you're going to be paying money for a new head coach.
03:01 You want to make sure that this is the right move.
03:02 And I do think it is, but I don't know.
03:07 I don't want to split hairs here and say a week or two would make a difference in the
03:11 opinion of it.
03:12 But I think you could see all along as we've been talking here on the show, this was just
03:17 not a good fit from start to finish.
03:20 And I think a lot of it has to do with Scott Fitterer too, who I think his job can be in
03:24 jeopardy as well.
03:25 Why is he still here?
03:26 Like why is he still here?
03:27 Well, I mean, I think with him, you're not really going to see a change in the on-field
03:32 results with a firing of Scott Fitterer right now, because someone has to manage this team
03:38 the rest of the way in terms of all the moves that they have to make with the practice squad,
03:41 elevating guys.
03:43 No one else is going to really know the ins and outs of that and what this team needs
03:47 better than Scott Fitterer.
03:48 I mean, you can make an argument, but he's going to be the guy I would assume, again,
03:54 I could be wrong here, but I would assume he will see the end of the season.
03:58 I would be shocked if he's still the GM by the time the Panthers are on the clock in
04:03 the second round of the 2024 NFL draft.
04:06 Yeah, I don't think it looks good for Fitterer either.
04:08 And matter of fact, I look at it like he'll probably be gone at like that Black Monday
04:13 right at the end of the season.
04:14 They'll probably let him go right there.
04:15 Let him stay the rest of the year, manage the roster, that kind of thing.
04:18 But he's pretty much a dead man walking, I would think at this point, right?
04:21 Yeah, I mean, it's a bad look.
04:23 If you fire a coach, again, Matt Rule was not Scott Fitterer's guy.
04:27 So you can give him a pass for that.
04:30 But for this, I mean, he was part of the hiring process.
04:33 He was the guy that said last year that one of the reasons why they were so confident
04:39 in moving up to get Bryce Young was because they weren't going to be picking anywhere
04:42 near the top 10 anymore.
04:43 You say that, you follow it up with a one in ten record.
04:46 There's no walking that back.
04:48 So when you say stuff like that, you better deliver.
04:52 And I think that's one of the biggest issues with this whole hire,
04:56 is they did not cater to what Frank Reich does well with the spread offense.
05:01 You bringing in a spread guy to run his offense with a power run scheme,
05:08 and that's just not gonna work.
05:10 We saw it in the first four or five games last year with Matt Rule,
05:13 and they tried to do this stuff with Baker Mayfield, and it didn't work.
05:17 They switched their mindset to let's just run the damn ball, and it worked.
05:21 Again, like I said last week, I don't think this is an indictment on the offensive
05:24 line, because I think they are actually really decent offensive linemen.
05:28 They're just playing in the wrong damn system.
05:30 When you play in the wrong damn system, your deficiencies are gonna show, and
05:34 you're gonna look like you're bad.
05:35 You're gonna put bad stuff on tape.
05:37 I feel for those guys up front.
05:39 I feel for the guys that are just not put in the position to succeed,
05:44 aka Bryce Young, so we'll see it.
05:46 That's the big part here.
05:48 Who's gonna be that guy to come in and fix this thing with Bryce Young?
05:52 >> I almost feel like it's on the roster already.
05:55 I feel like Jiro Ivaro should be the next head coach, and
06:00 I feel like they didn't make him the interim head coach.
06:02 They did not repeat the steps that they made last year.
06:05 Say they had promoted him to interim head coach.
06:08 You have the exact same situation you had last year with Steve Wilkes as interim.
06:11 Say they turn around these six games and say they win four of them, and
06:14 they just look a completely different team or whatnot.
06:16 But then you don't hire him, you hire somebody else outside.
06:19 Literally, it's the exact same scenario from last year.
06:22 Somewhere Steve Wilkes is sitting back in San Francisco with a smirk on his face
06:25 right now, just kinda shaking his head like, yep.
06:28 >> Or some relief that he's not there.
06:30 >> Yeah, that he's not there, yeah.
06:31 [LAUGH] That could be too.
06:33 But I still feel like if Wilkes was here, Foreman's probably still here.
06:36 They're probably running that same downhill rushing attack.
06:39 You probably don't have Bryce Young.
06:42 You probably do have Christian McCaffrey.
06:44 You probably definitely still have DJ Moore.
06:46 And you probably have Andy Dalton as your quarterback, more than likely, or
06:48 someone in that vein.
06:50 And you're probably positioning yourself to maybe move up this year in the draft,
06:54 because there's probably a better quarterback class,
06:56 I would say, this year coming out than last year.
06:58 But all that's in hindsight.
07:00 Now, do you think that the upcoming coach, and for those who don't know,
07:04 Chris Tabor, the special teams coach, is gonna be the interim.
07:06 Jim Caldwell's coming down from the tower in the castle to help call plays,
07:10 I guess, with Thomas Brown, who has been given back play calling abilities.
07:14 Let's just say, Thomas Brown didn't do that much better either when he was
07:19 calling plays, which makes me wonder, did Frank still kinda have a say over?
07:23 It sounded like he didn't,
07:24 that it was really Thomas had free reign to call whatever he wanted.
07:27 Do you think the offense is gonna change that much between what we've seen and
07:31 now?
07:32 [LAUGH]
07:33 >> You can't polish a turd, man.
07:35 >> No. [LAUGH]
07:36 >> What you are by week 11 is what you are
07:38 by week 11 or 12 or whatever part of the season we're in.
07:41 You are not going to change dramatically at this point.
07:45 You are what you are.
07:46 I think it could certainly change how a game is called, but
07:51 the effectiveness and the execution of it's not gonna change.
07:54 It's the same guys running the same stuff.
07:57 To me, again, I think where this, what it boils down to is not only the scheme fit,
08:01 but I think the clash in offensive philosophies.
08:03 Because again, you have Frank Reich, who's a true spread it out offense,
08:08 offensive mind.
08:08 You have not Sean McVay, but you have Thomas Brown,
08:12 who comes from that Sean McVay tree, which is a lot of pre-snap motion,
08:15 post-snap movement, where it's a lot of different things that the defense has to
08:19 put their eyes on.
08:20 And then you have James Campen, who has been in some different offenses, but
08:23 last year really excelled, again, in that downhill stop.
08:27 So you have three different kind of offensive backgrounds,
08:30 trying to formulate one that works.
08:33 And that's just not gonna happen.
08:35 So I don't know what Tepper's gonna be looking for
08:39 in this next coaching staff or this next hire.
08:43 But he has to make damn sure that whoever it is,
08:46 you're gonna have coaches that are on the same page.
08:49 On paper, this coaching staff look like an all-star,
08:52 rock star type staff that had no chance of doing anything wrong or
08:56 anywhere coming close to this.
08:58 But when you have those differences of opinion, and I think, as Stu alluded to
09:03 last week, the too many cooks in the kitchen phrase, this is what can happen.
09:07 >> I just, and now you're left with a situation where you still don't have
09:13 protection for Bryce Young.
09:16 You still don't have any players really on offense.
09:19 And- >> And who do you replace?
09:22 Who do you replace on the offense line?
09:24 Like if you seriously think about it, you invested a first round pick, and
09:28 Nicky Aquanu, he's not going anywhere.
09:30 Maybe he goes to the left guard, which I've been saying for a while.
09:34 >> Yeah.
09:35 >> But you signed Bozeman to a multi-year deal.
09:37 Taylor Moten's not going anywhere.
09:39 Austin Corbett, maybe they move off of him because of the injuries.
09:42 But I mean, who do you replace up there?
09:45 It's almost like you have to go back to that philosophy that they had last year
09:52 and sprinkle in some spread stuff.
09:54 I don't know who that offensive coach is gonna be.
09:56 >> I'm still thinking about them cutting Calvin Brockmorton.
09:59 You cut him, he started seven games and then you didn't demote him, you cut him.
10:06 You literally was like- >> [CROSSTALK]
10:10 >> And now literally the offensive line
10:12 looks worse.
10:13 It looks worse than it did when he was starting at left guard or whatever.
10:16 And I'm just sitting here like, what did he do to cause them to cut him?
10:22 And then Frank's comments about it were weird after,
10:24 because he was like, well, he may be back on the roster next week or
10:28 in two weeks or whatnot.
10:30 It's almost like they were playing with some of the players in terms of like,
10:33 well, nobody's gonna want that guy.
10:35 We can easily swing back around and bring him back.
10:37 And now he's playing in Indy, so they can't even go get him.
10:41 The offensive line I don't think can be fixed in this offseason with what they're
10:45 running, unless they just decide to run the ball 40 times and
10:47 let them go back to what they were doing last year.
10:48 Which could very well be a way to save Bryce,
10:50 because we asked this question last week.
10:53 Would you bench Bryce Young with everything going on?
10:55 And both of you guys were like, no, let him keep playing,
10:58 let him take his lumps.
10:59 My dude is getting like, he has no pocket.
11:02 >> He's getting left wing.
11:03 >> When it comes to him getting sacked from the blonde side,
11:07 he has no idea it's coming.
11:08 He literally has no idea.
11:11 And Rex Ryan made a great point on Get Up this morning when the news dropped.
11:16 He was like, he's never been a fan of Bryce Young.
11:19 And now his size is starting to come back into the conversation again,
11:22 not because of him being too small to play, but more worried about him and
11:26 durability because of all the sacks that he's taking.
11:29 And Rex Ryan was like, he sees people all the time comparing Bryce Young to
11:32 Kyler Murray.
11:33 And he's like, that's not fair.
11:35 Kyler Murray is short.
11:36 Kyler Murray is not small.
11:37 Kyler Murray is stout, built, and more athletic, and faster,
11:41 way faster than Bryce Young.
11:43 Bryce Young can't outrun these defensive ends.
11:45 He can't outrun them.
11:46 They are running, these are 295 pound, 6'5" dudes.
11:51 Now granted, from the preseason, when we were looking at all those 4'4" or
11:54 whatever from these defensive ends or whatnot,
11:56 those are the dudes with the 4'3" or whatever.
11:58 They're chasing Bryce Young down.
11:59 He's not even hitting the edge.
12:01 He's taking three, four steps out the pocket and getting sacked.
12:04 >> The one thing I also wanna bring up, and again,
12:06 I don't think this was necessarily the case, but we've seen a lot of national
12:10 people talk about this throughout the year, and that Frank was more in the CJ
12:15 Stroud camp than the Bryce Young camp.
12:18 If that were to be true, my goodness, man, you fire a guy who was essentially
12:22 forced to take a guy that he didn't really necessarily think was the guy at
12:27 quarterback, that's tough.
12:30 But again, I don't know that that was the case.
12:31 I don't wanna speculate about that.
12:33 But I do, Des, want you to bring up the article that I did this morning,
12:37 if you can, my Monday Morning Thoughts on Scott Fitter.
12:41 On there, toward the bottom, there's three trades that Fitterer made
12:46 that have completely changed this roster over the last couple of years.
12:51 >> I know two of them.
12:52 [LAUGH] >> And if we can get them pulled up,
12:55 you can see how crazy these deals are.
12:59 Even at the time when they happened, you were kinda like, what are they doing?
13:03 But when you go back and you look at them, it is swing and miss, swing and miss,
13:07 swing and miss, and to me, three strikes, you're out, pal.
13:11 It's not good, it's not good looking Scott Fitterer.
13:14 >> What's the title of the one I'm looking for?
13:16 Is it Everything That Went Wrong During Front Rights?
13:18 >> Monday Morning Thoughts, Scott Fitterer's doing.
13:22 >> While I'm pulling that, the one and only Jonathan Stewart joins us here on
13:26 the Believe in Panthers podcast.
13:27 Good morning, gentlemen, how are you doing?
13:29 >> Good morning, sir.
13:31 >> [LAUGH] >> We've kinda thought the past
13:35 three weeks or so that we might have an episode like this.
13:39 We didn't know when it was gonna drop, but-
13:41 >> We're somewhat prepared.
13:43 >> We kinda were prepared.
13:44 We were a little, I even said it in our group chat last night.
13:47 I was like, yo, y'all gonna be ready to do one on Monday if this goes down,
13:50 cuz I was telling Skyler, Stu, I couldn't even watch that game.
13:53 After the first drive, first quarter, when they went for that third and one and
13:57 did that weird backwards pass, whatever that was,
14:01 that got blown up in the backfield.
14:03 I literally threw my hands up in the living room and
14:06 looked at my wife and was like, I'm gonna go door dash.
14:07 I'm not gonna sit here and watch this.
14:09 I left and door dashed and listened to the radio call with Luke Keekly and
14:12 Anish Shroff, so I could hear that.
14:14 And I listened to that call and I'm thinking,
14:16 this is the exact same game that we've seen the past two months.
14:18 It's the same game, literally.
14:21 We're gonna give them a turnover.
14:22 That's gonna be the difference in the game.
14:24 That's exactly what happened.
14:25 It's gonna be a one possession game in the fourth quarter.
14:27 That's exactly what happened.
14:29 Bryce is gonna run for his life, get sacked probably at least four times.
14:32 That's exactly what happened.
14:33 And then no 100-yard rusher.
14:36 It's the same stuff.
14:37 And then the difference was Frank started throwing people under the bus in
14:42 the post game defense.
14:44 He threw DJ Chark under the bus.
14:46 And Chark actually said something back and that hit Twitter.
14:49 When I saw that, I was like, okay,
14:50 the players are starting to push back against the play calling.
14:54 That's the beginning of the end.
14:55 As a former player, Stu, you've been in these situations before where you've had
14:58 regimes come in and out as a Panther.
15:01 What are the players going through right now?
15:03 What do you feel like the locker room is?
15:05 Is it joy, relief?
15:07 Is it sadness?
15:09 What do you think's going on?
15:11 >> I mean, I would say a mixture of none of it, really.
15:17 It's right now you're one in ten, right?
15:23 And this is your job, right?
15:29 Like guys got contracts, guys are playing their dream job.
15:36 Their mindset has to be somewhere along the lines of, well,
15:41 if that's not a message sent, I don't know who that message is for,
15:47 what's happening.
15:50 But all I know is I don't wanna be the next guy.
15:53 You know what I'm saying?
15:54 Because at the end of the day, this is a performance based business.
15:58 If you're not performing, you gotta go.
16:02 And that's just how it is around the whole entire league.
16:06 Every professional sports organization goes through this.
16:11 And for the Carolina Panthers, we've been in this spell for years now.
16:15 And I think honestly, bro,
16:19 you have to give credit to the coaches that the coaching and
16:26 the hiring that has been done around the league.
16:31 Look at Pittsburgh, Mike Tomlin.
16:35 I mean, this is a guy that has had sustained success for
16:40 a very long period of time.
16:43 That is hard to do, let alone a first year head coach coming into a situation.
16:50 My Frank Reich, I feel bad for him, man.
16:54 He's a good guy, met him several times, talked to him.
16:58 And at the end of the day, he was basically
17:03 paddling a boat upstream, you know what I'm saying?
17:10 So it's hard to do.
17:15 So I mean, if you're a player, man, you're getting your head down and
17:21 you're just doing the work.
17:24 Chopper would carry the water every single day.
17:27 That's the mentality, that's the focus.
17:31 And I'm pretty sure there's definitely some guys on the team that's on the roster
17:34 that doesn't have a solidified spot.
17:37 So I mean, there's probably a lot of fear, you know what I'm saying?
17:40 For a lot of guys as far as, well, Frank brought me here or Frank likes me.
17:45 There's a lot of doubt right now, for sure in that locker room.
17:53 But that's Monday, Tuesday goes by,
17:58 you start your day off Wednesday, you're back to work.
18:02 It's work as usual.
18:04 You got a job to do, you got a job to keep, and you gotta go out there and
18:10 display why you need to be part of that winning solution,
18:14 like we talked about a couple weeks ago.
18:16 >> If you're just joining us here on a special edition of Believe in Carolina
18:20 Panthers live here on the Believe Podcast Network and
18:24 the Tobacco Road Sports Radio YouTube channel.
18:26 So hit that subscribe button by the way.
18:27 Frank Wright released as head coach of the Carolina Panthers early Monday morning.
18:33 David Tepper, owner of the Panthers, put out a statement.
18:36 Special teams coach Chris Tabor is gonna be the interim head coach.
18:39 Jim Caldwell's coming down from the tower or
18:42 wherever he's been all year to help assist Thomas Brown,
18:46 who will resume offensive play calling duties after having it taken away after
18:49 three games before that.
18:51 I did find Schuyler's article here.
18:54 Go check this out under the All Panthers SI banner, Monday morning thoughts.
18:58 Basically this is, it reset on me.
19:03 This is basically, what's going on here?
19:07 I think it's trying to pull it.
19:08 >> We're live, not huge news or anything, but
19:14 just something to keep your ears out on for tomorrow.
19:17 David Tepper's gonna talk at 1030 in the morning.
19:20 >> Tomorrow?
19:23 That's interesting, cuz I didn't expect to hear from him at all.
19:26 >> We did hear from him last year.
19:29 I think it was actually the day of, no, no, no, it was the following day.
19:35 It was the following day after Matt got fired.
19:38 >> We'll get to Kellen in the comments.
19:40 Thanks everybody that's checking us out.
19:41 Asked you, Stu, what do you think about Fit in his situation?
19:44 We're gonna get to Scott Fitter here in just a bit.
19:46 Don't you worry.
19:47 We're gonna get to Scott.
19:48 I don't think he's gonna be here much longer.
19:51 >> I do gotta run here in a minute.
19:54 But I mean, with Scott Fitter, man, I mean, again, it's a hard job.
20:01 It's a hard job to get the right pieces into position,
20:05 to give yourself a fighting chance.
20:08 And I mean, there's a lot of elements out the gate.
20:11 Skylar Callahan gave us the reasons why the Panthers weren't gonna be successful
20:16 last year.
20:18 >> You really did. >> Because of depth.
20:19 We had depth issues going into the season.
20:24 >> We ignored him.
20:25 >> And so, yeah.
20:27 >> We don't wanna hear that nonsense.
20:30 >> We didn't wanna hear it.
20:31 We wanted it to be all a candy shop.
20:36 >> Yeah, he was right.
20:38 >> But the truth of the matter is, man, it doesn't happen overnight.
20:43 It doesn't happen over a year.
20:45 But I think right now, Tepper sees a situation where he went and
20:53 got his guy and gave up a lot to get his guy.
20:58 So in order to protect that guy, you have to do probably
21:04 the most unpopular decision, which is let go your head coach
21:13 midway through the season and a lot of people are gonna have their say about that
21:19 and whatnot, but it's a tough business out there.
21:24 And the NFL is what it is for a reason.
21:29 And because guys, fans expect performance and
21:35 not just a bad performance, they expect competitive performance.
21:41 The defense, man, they've been playing lights out,
21:44 giving their team a chance to win.
21:47 >> Yeah. >> And week in and week out,
21:50 it's kinda hard to ignore what's going on on the offensive side of the ball.
21:55 We have offensive lineman depth issues that we've been hanging on for
22:01 the whole season, guys in Bryce Young's face, separation for the receivers.
22:09 Run game, we have talented running backs, but the offensive line again,
22:14 if you can't get a push, you can't create seams or guys can't gel together.
22:20 I mean, I think I read an article where there's like seven to eight
22:24 different lineups this year at the offensive line position.
22:29 So I mean, you talk about chemistry,
22:32 these guys probably aren't bad at what they do.
22:37 It just takes rhythm, it takes tempo,
22:40 it takes a lot of things for guys to really gel and move like a machine.
22:47 That's basically what you want your offensive line to do is move like
22:49 a machine.
22:50 But if there's parts missing here, parts missing there,
22:53 you don't get to spend a lot of time with the guy that you're legitimately-
22:57 >> Right beside, yeah.
22:59 >> Going to war with for 60 something plays.
23:07 It's hard to really figure out the remedy,
23:12 the way about going about your offense.
23:17 Like I said, you're paddling a boat upstream out the gate, it's hard to do,
23:23 especially when you have guys coming in and out with injuries.
23:27 So I mean, it's tough, man, feel bad for Frank.
23:34 Right now the Panthers locker room have to lock arms and
23:39 just right now, like I said, you're building character,
23:44 you're building a callous.
23:47 Right now you're gonna have to do things that you don't wanna do as an organization.
23:51 And it sucks, and it sucks to see for fans because it's like, hey,
23:55 I was hoping on this season to be fun or whatever.
23:58 But I mean, there's other things to worry about in this world than
24:04 what the Panthers are doing wrong.
24:08 >> Even at one and ten, the Panthers are still what,
24:10 like four games out of first place or something in the NFC South?
24:12 I mean, literally, that's the thing that hurts the most.
24:15 It's like, they could have just got some of this together.
24:18 >> And we have three divisional games coming up too, so.
24:21 >> Yeah, they still have a division, which is nuts.
24:23 So before Stu has to get out of here, I did wanna hit off Skyler's thing here to
24:28 hit these three trades, because looking back now in hindsight, now that Frank's gone,
24:33 I don't think he was set up for success to begin with.
24:35 And to be honest, we did not have the collateral to trade up to number one when
24:38 we did it.
24:39 Cuz now I think we may have set ourselves back another year or
24:42 two because of what happened in these trades right here.
24:44 Trade number one, Jets received the 2021 sixth round pick, a 2022 second round pick,
24:48 and a 2022 fourth round pick.
24:50 The Panthers get Sam Darnold out of that.
24:53 Sam Darnold's no longer on the roster.
24:55 I'm not sure what the Jets did with that second round pick and
24:58 that fourth round pick from last year.
24:59 >> Breeze Hall, I believe, is Breeze Hall.
25:00 >> Man, okay, so they got Breeze Hall with that pick.
25:04 Trade number two, 49ers receive Christian McCaffrey.
25:07 Panthers receive 2023 second round pick, 2023 third round pick,
25:11 2023 fourth round pick, 2024 fifth round pick.
25:14 So we've already spent all that collateral or sent it off to someplace else,
25:19 except for the fifth round pick that we got from-
25:21 >> That trade was, I think it's in the analysis bullet.
25:24 I think they sent two of those to Pittsburgh to trade up to get DJ Johnson,
25:29 who has been whatever.
25:31 And then the second rounder went to Chicago for Bryce.
25:36 >> Okay, so we didn't even use those.
25:39 Well, we used them to move up.
25:41 We didn't really use them for death, which is the problem with this team right now.
25:44 And you did have it written down right here.
25:46 Trade number three, Bears received number nine overall pick in 2023.
25:49 2023 second round pick, 2024 first round pick, 2025 second, good Lord,
25:55 2025 second round pick and wide receiver DJ Moore.
25:58 Why in the world is DJ Moore in this trade?
26:02 I'm sitting here looking at it now.
26:03 All that to move up eight spots?
26:06 >> Yeah, that's a lot.
26:08 >> That's a lot.
26:08 And you're moving up.
26:10 I hate to say it guys, you're moving up for Bryce Young.
26:13 And the one thing that bothered us about him preseason and
26:19 before they picked him is starting to come back around again, it's the size.
26:22 It's not so much I feel like he's too small to play in the NFL.
26:25 That's not the issue.
26:26 Rex Ryan made this point.
26:27 We were talking about it before Skylar that he sees the comparison to Kyler Murray and
26:31 Bryson all the time.
26:32 Kyler Murray is short, but he is not small.
26:35 Kyler Murray is stocky.
26:36 He's got like a baseball player body in terms of being able his hips and
26:40 everything and he's probably- >> Kyler Murray is like a little hamster.
26:44 >> Yeah, he's three times faster than Bryce Young.
26:47 This is even after tearing ACL.
26:49 He looks even faster now than he was before he got hurt.
26:51 So- >> He looks really explosive.
26:53 >> Bryce cannot outrun anyone.
26:55 It's starting to get to a point where it's a problem.
26:57 Where when you're watching it on TV and you see that dude coming from the left
27:00 side, Icky, when you see him coming from that side and
27:03 Bryce has not even turned to look that way.
27:06 For starters, I'm starting to get worried that Bryce is not even anticipating it.
27:09 11 games in, you've been hit enough times from that direction where that's the first
27:13 place I'm looking.
27:14 As soon as the ball is snapped, I'm looking over there at Icky.
27:16 So I see, hey, you good over there?
27:17 What's going on over there?
27:18 Before I even do anything because it's all coming from over there, it feels like.
27:22 When he feels it and he steps out the pocket a little bit,
27:25 he takes about three steps and gets ran down.
27:28 You remember in the preseason, Stu, when we were talking about all these four-four
27:32 defensive ends that were coming out or whatever.
27:35 And we were like, where are these dudes coming from?
27:37 They are chasing Bryce Young down in the backfield.
27:40 He has no way to get out.
27:42 A lot of it's design.
27:44 >> It's a flood.
27:46 >> Do you think this is gonna change with Thomas Brown calling the plays?
27:48 Is this basically the same playbook?
27:50 How does that work?
27:51 >> Man, I think at the end of the day, really and truly, again,
27:56 I feel bad for Bryce.
27:58 I feel bad for the players.
27:59 >> I do.
28:00 >> And but also, I mean, but players play, coaches coach.
28:07 And what sucks is that they're in a predicament where they have a lot of
28:10 injuries on the offense and it's gonna be hard to climb out of that.
28:15 Now, offensively, play calling, I don't know if you just kinda go back to
28:21 the drawing board and say to yourself, okay,
28:23 this is who I am as an offensive coordinator or coach.
28:26 I need to create some other balance to put my guys in position to win,
28:33 whatever that looks like.
28:36 Maybe it's something that you're not accustomed to as a coach.
28:40 But whatever it is, you got six games left.
28:44 Is it six games left?
28:45 >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, six left.
28:47 >> Yeah, or five.
28:50 >> What are we?
28:51 We're one and ten.
28:53 >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:54 >> There's 17 games.
28:55 >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:56 >> So six left, yeah.
28:57 >> So right now, everyone's playing and coaching for their job.
29:04 So, and that's the mindset you gotta have anyway,
29:08 whether you're 13 and 0 or 0 and 13.
29:13 Every day, you're coaching and playing for your job.
29:19 And right now, is it gonna get better?
29:25 It can, you know what I'm saying?
29:27 We got a lot of division games.
29:29 And I mean, I think our division as a whole is the weaker division within the NFL.
29:36 So maybe there's opportunity for
29:41 us to be the Las Vegas Raiders right now, you know what I'm saying?
29:45 Cuz I mean, before the Raiders started winning, they were looking bad too.
29:50 Garoppolo back there looking all strange.
29:52 >> [LAUGH] >> And then all of a sudden,
29:57 they took a shift.
30:01 Yeah, they lost to the Kansas City Chiefs, but I mean, playing Super Bowl team,
30:08 they put up numbers, they put up what they gotta put up to be competitive.
30:13 Having their fans at least going back home saying, well,
30:17 it was a competitive game at least.
30:19 I don't know, man, I think our defense is doing enough.
30:25 And all it takes is for one guy.
30:29 I mean, we need one of them receivers to just click.
30:34 When you catch the ball, break a tackle, make somebody miss, get up field.
30:39 You gotta figure out a way to do something special, you know what I'm saying?
30:43 And I think that's one of the elements that we miss out on,
30:47 especially going into a game where they just double feeling.
30:52 >> Yeah. >> If I'm a receiver or
30:55 somebody, or a shifty running back, man,
31:00 give me the ball in space cuz they got two guys over there.
31:03 Like now, you know what I'm saying?
31:05 So- >> I've been waiting on that to happen.
31:07 >> You gotta be opportunistic as a player in this organization.
31:13 And make a case of why you need to stay and why you are part of the winning recipe.
31:18 >> I've been waiting on a defense to be like, you know what?
31:20 If we just double Adam Thielen, they can't really do a whole lot of anything.
31:24 And it took about two, three weeks, but finally Tennessee, and
31:27 actually kind of did a little bit last week.
31:28 The Cowboys kind of did a little bit, but yeah, they just took them out.
31:32 And once they took Thielen out,
31:34 there's no dude on the offense that's like a separator, a game changer.
31:38 >> Right. >> Like somebody that-
31:39 >> And I feel like-
31:40 >> On a way from the-
31:41 >> It just seems like we're at this,
31:44 the NFL is full of elite players.
31:48 You're in the NFL for a reason, period.
31:50 We gotta unlock these players and really see, hey, what can you do?
31:57 Whatever you feel like you'd be doing in practice, do that in the game.
32:01 It almost seems like when we're watching these games,
32:05 we're watching these guys in a box.
32:07 That's what it really, we're watching them in a box and we know what's coming.
32:13 You know what I'm saying?
32:14 Offensive line, we're depending too much on them.
32:16 I don't know what it is, but we gotta unlock these guys and
32:21 let them go out there and play football.
32:24 >> James Woodring says, the players found out by the media.
32:27 I don't know if that's true or not, but if that is true, that's-
32:31 >> They were trying to,
32:33 I think it was Mike K, Charles, or he said something about that.
32:36 They were trying to inform the players, but the news just got out before.
32:41 But I mean, the thing I hate about it is, again,
32:46 a lot of these guys are going through this for the second time in two years.
32:50 And for Bryce, you go through technically four changes of the hands
32:55 in terms of the offense.
32:56 [LAUGH] And in your rookie season, you've got eight or nine different,
33:01 whatever, Stu said, how many different combinations up front of the offensive
33:04 line, and it's just a bad rookie year.
33:08 And honestly, it reminds me a lot of Trevor Lawrence's rookie year.
33:11 We had so many struggles, the Urban Meyer thing, it's a mess.
33:16 But look how they came out of it.
33:17 They got the right coach, they got the right players around them, and
33:21 now they're one of the better teams in the AFC.
33:22 So I think brighter days are ahead, but it may take a little bit longer just
33:28 because you don't have that first round pick that may end up being the number one
33:32 overall pick in next year's draft.
33:35 >> And I think really the rest of the season is important for
33:40 the Panthers because you talk about free agency, right?
33:44 >> Yeah.
33:45 >> Right now, again, if I'm a player too, and I know I'm gonna-
33:49 >> [CROSSTALK]
33:50 >> Yeah, and I know I'm gonna be here next year or I wanna be here next year.
33:55 I'm trying to put on a show for the rest of the league, for
34:00 the rest of the guys that will be free agents next year.
34:03 Hey, bro, come to the Panthers.
34:06 [LAUGH] >> Does this change the situation in your
34:08 mind with Ryan Burns?
34:09 Do you entertain trading him now?
34:12 >> I still don't, but again, if you're Scott Fitterer and
34:17 he walks after you had two chances to trade him,
34:20 I mean, that's like the dagger right there.
34:23 You can't, and I know that decision on Scott will be made way in advance of
34:28 Burns hitting free agency, but you can't let that happen.
34:31 >> Maybe that's why Fitterer's still here, now I'm sitting here thinking about it,
34:35 cuz he's been the main negotiator in these Burns talks.
34:37 If you take him out of it, now you start fresh with a new guy that's an interim at
34:41 that, like if it's Dan Morgan, the interim GM or whatever.
34:46 >> The other one thing that I've seen a lot of people ask about is why
34:49 Azhar Averroe isn't gonna be the interim.
34:52 And we'll find out more tomorrow from Tepper.
34:55 He could have went to EJ and said, hey, do you wanna be the interim and
34:59 he declined it.
34:59 >> He was like, no, thank you.
35:00 >> Yeah, it's very possible.
35:03 I believe, I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that was a situation in Denver.
35:08 So I mean- >> Wow, yeah, I forgot about that.
35:11 >> Think about it, you're auditioning to be a head coach,
35:15 you don't want yourself fully attached to that.
35:18 When he gets to this off season, I guarantee there's still gonna be teams that
35:21 wanna interview him to be their head coach.
35:24 If all he has to attach himself to is what they did defensively,
35:27 he's still gonna look pretty damn good.
35:28 >> Yeah, I don't even know how our defense is doing it.
35:30 >> If I'm him, I'm like, yeah, you can take the voodoo with you right now.
35:34 >> [LAUGH] >> Cash the checks and
35:38 make sure defense is good, and then we'll see what happens afterwards.
35:41 >> And he's still gonna be, I think, somebody that David Tepper's gonna wanna
35:45 interview him.
35:46 >> Yeah, and honestly too, I think what?
35:48 Has there ever been an interim head coach ever become the head coach?
35:53 >> I don't think so.
35:54 >> I think we talked about this a couple weeks ago.
35:56 >> Right.
35:57 >> There has to have been, I just can't think off the top of my head.
36:00 >> Let's see if we can Google it while we're still on.
36:01 >> People always go outside.
36:03 Cuz like I said- >> Willie Smith,
36:07 Bryce Young is tougher than a lot of people thought.
36:10 Cuz he is dealing with a lot of heat every game.
36:16 >> Gosh, yeah, yeah, he's way stronger mentally than I expected him to be,
36:19 cuz he's having to deal with this.
36:21 And he hasn't thrown his offensive line under the bus.
36:24 He hasn't thrown Mike Wright under the bus, the organization.
36:27 He could easily at this point, I think we all would understand.
36:30 Man, these dudes got me out here getting killed every week, and
36:34 they ain't changing nothing.
36:35 Help me, somebody come help me, please, and he's not doing it.
36:38 >> The one thing we haven't brought up yet, and
36:40 I wanna get Stu's opinion on before he has to roll.
36:43 This job, how attractive can it be?
36:46 Because you fired two coaches in two years, three and five, or three and six,
36:50 or whatever it is.
36:52 How attractive can this job be,
36:55 because you have a reputation of firing guys on a short leash?
37:01 >> I mean, if you wanna be a head coach,
37:04 you obviously wanna go into a good situation, right?
37:10 I look at the Carolina Panthers, and I look at our defense.
37:13 And I say, well, that's a bright spot.
37:17 You know what I'm saying?
37:18 We got special teams, we're doing our thing on special teams.
37:21 You have a good quarterback in Bryce Young.
37:24 I'm taking my focus, if I get this type of job, if I get the head coaching job.
37:32 And I'm looking at the offensive line, and
37:35 you don't even need to replace the whole receiver core.
37:38 You just need one more, you probably need one more guy, a speed guy.
37:43 And I'm not talking about a guy that can go take a deep route.
37:47 I'm talking about a guy that can catch the ball.
37:49 >> Do stuff after.
37:50 >> And when he catches it, he's gone to the house.
37:54 You know what I'm saying?
37:55 Yes, a yet guy.
37:58 And then obviously the offensive line depth.
38:05 I'm looking, maybe defensive backs, you know what I'm saying?
38:10 Always good to have depth at the defensive back position.
38:14 So there's not a lot missing, that sounds crazy.
38:19 >> [LAUGH] >> So if I'm a head coach,
38:24 this job isn't, I'm not scared to take this job.
38:29 But I'm more so understanding of the requirement.
38:34 You're going into this situation saying,
38:39 well, I better have my hat on straight.
38:43 You know what I'm saying?
38:43 Because if not, it is what it is.
38:46 But if I can go in there and really change this thing,
38:50 I can really make my resume jump.
38:54 Because I can be one of the greatest coaches to ever step place in the NFL,
39:00 coming into the situation and turning it around.
39:03 >> Fire with a fire extinguisher.
39:06 >> There's only 32 of these out there.
39:08 So I mean, somebody's gonna want that job.
39:11 Obviously, I think it's hard though,
39:14 because if you're a guy that has never been a head coach before.
39:18 >> David Tepper already has someone in mind.
39:20 That's why this went down today, so he can get ahead of it.
39:22 Because he could have let him go through the whole season.
39:24 We talked about this last week.
39:26 He's got somebody in mind already that he wants to come in here.
39:28 And I'm wondering if it's Jim Harbaugh.
39:30 All the crumbs.
39:34 Remember Harbaugh called in last year around this time.
39:37 Well, Steve Wolfe was there.
39:38 He was like, hey, you got a job.
39:40 >> [LAUGH] >> Dan Orlovsky said a couple weeks ago,
39:44 Bill Belichick already knows where you're going next year.
39:47 >> That's right, and Bill O'Brien.
39:50 >> A terrific coaching career, one of the best to ever do it.
39:53 Just for my sake, and that I don't have to have these stupid press conferences.
39:58 >> [CROSSTALK] >> Bill Belichick.
40:02 >> [LAUGH] >> I can't, that'd be like Coach K
40:07 deciding to coach North Carolina, to me.
40:10 I can't even wrap my mind around that even occurring.
40:15 I would rather Jim Harbaugh be hired and they give him GM responsibilities as well.
40:20 And I know that's something he was trying to avoid with Frank Wright.
40:22 I don't know if that worked out either.
40:24 Jim Harbaugh, I was on this tip last year.
40:28 Jim Harbaugh can fix all the things we just said that are broken with this team.
40:31 That's his specialty, that's what he does.
40:33 He's gonna come in and build the offensive line.
40:35 He's gonna build the defensive line.
40:36 He's gonna run the football.
40:38 He's the dude that's gonna come out there with eight man offensive line package,
40:42 like jumbo joints, where we're just running the ball down your throat.
40:45 That's closer to the Panthers identity that I've grown up with and
40:48 understood it to be than whatever this is that's been going on the past ten weeks.
40:53 Because this whole idea of us changing our offensive mentality,
40:57 it changed what the Panthers are.
40:58 >> What you're looking for is a defensive minded head coach.
41:02 >> Yes, I want a defensive minded head coach in here.
41:05 This whole bringing in Ben Johnson or- >> You're gonna have that portion of
41:10 the fan base too that if something happens in DC, they're gonna want-
41:14 >> Rivera.
41:14 >> Ron back and I mean, Charlotte Sports, I mean, they've done it before.
41:19 >> [LAUGH] >> Clipper got fired.
41:22 He came back four years later, maybe the same thing with Rivera.
41:24 I mean, I don't think it'd be a wise decision to do it.
41:27 >> What's Marty Horney doing these days?
41:28 Where's Marty Horney at?
41:30 >> I think he's still in Washington, or did he get let go of Washington?
41:34 I think he did.
41:35 >> I don't know, but- >> All right, fellas, I gotta head out.
41:38 >> Yeah, hey, Stu's stopping in for the live here.
41:41 We normally go on Tuesdays.
41:43 We might maybe still go tomorrow.
41:45 What time is this here?
41:47 >> We might still need to go tomorrow.
41:49 >> When is Tepper talking to me?
41:51 >> This news kinda got me all bunched up.
41:53 I didn't really get to say too much of anything that I really wanna say cuz
41:57 it caught me off guard.
41:59 >> Maybe we do a full episode tomorrow night after Tepper's press conference.
42:02 Well, don't you have Hornets tomorrow night?
42:05 So we'll figure this out cuz I'm sure Tepper's gonna say something.
42:09 Tepper's gonna say something at this press conference.
42:11 >> Keep pounding, that's all you're gonna have to do.
42:13 >> Yeah, [LAUGH] I didn't get a chance to ask you guys if you thought
42:18 the next head coach is on the roster or off the roster.
42:21 We'll save that for the next episode.
42:23 But again, this is the day you guys have been asking for.
42:26 And I've been knowing you Panther fans cuz a lot of times you ask for stuff and
42:30 you get it and then you don't like what the result was.
42:33 Once you get it, you wanted to trade McCaffrey,
42:35 you wanted to trade up to one.
42:37 You were fine with getting Bryson, you were fine with trading off DJ Moore.
42:40 You were fine with all these things.
42:42 And then once they happen, we protested cuz it didn't happen the way we wanted it
42:46 to, now you've gotten your wish.
42:48 Frank Wright has been fired, he's been relieved of his duties midseason.
42:52 Is this the right thing?
42:53 Was this the right thing to do?
42:55 I don't think it could be any worse than keeping him after,
42:57 especially after yesterday.
42:58 If I've checked out of a Panther game and refused to watch it and
43:03 I have to actually do umpteenth hours of Panther content after it.
43:07 [LAUGH] To me, that was the telltale sign for me.
43:10 I'm like, something's gotta change if I'm checking out of it.
43:13 No matter, tell them how many other fans have checked out.
43:15 >> You know what the worst case scenario would be?
43:18 And I hate to even go this far into the future.
43:21 But say you get the next year, right?
43:24 You have your new coach and this team again is struggling because you don't have
43:29 that first round pick, maybe the free agent market is just not attracted
43:33 to this team because of the struggles that they've had.
43:38 What if you start next season and you're just as bad?
43:41 I mean, is that coach gonna be on the hot seat too?
43:43 Is this gonna become a reoccurring thing where you feel like you're
43:47 the Cleveland Browns?
43:48 And you're just firing guys left and right.
43:50 You've got all these different pieces and GMs coming in and out.
43:54 It's gotta come to an end at some point.
43:56 You've gotta find an answer.
43:58 This is, and we could have argued that last offseason was huge for David Tepper.
44:04 But he has got to get this hire right.
44:07 If he doesn't get this hire right, I don't know what the future is for
44:13 this team.
44:14 I really, really don't because it's gonna be a nonstop thing where it's just,
44:19 it's cycled over and over and over again.
44:21 >> Hell, Houston went through four head coaches in four years, right,
44:23 before they landed on D'Amico Ryan.
44:25 So there's a kind of a process to it in today's NFL.
44:28 But Zach Jose asked, anyway, we can get Kevin Avery from the four man rush and
44:31 Mike Wall, former offensive lineman for the Panthers,
44:33 talk about the offensive line on the next podcast.
44:36 Also, Ivaro needs to be given a serious consideration as the next head coach.
44:39 I do agree with that.
44:40 I'll talk to Kevin, see what's up with that.
44:42 See, maybe we can coordinate that.
44:43 Because I do wanna talk some more with offensive line woes and
44:47 what can be fixed with that.
44:48 We did have Frank Garcia on a couple episodes ago and
44:53 he was talking about this, but that was before the bottom really fell out.
44:55 There's not a lot of cornerstones here.
45:01 Thomas Hayes' hardball was buddy buddy last year.
45:03 >> On the contract, I mean, again, you have Brian Burns who's still,
45:06 you don't know what's gonna happen with that.
45:09 >> Frankie Lee was the interstitial free agent this offseason too.
45:13 >> And I think that's a good point that you made earlier about Scott Fitter,
45:18 being part of the negotiations.
45:20 If you let him go, what does that mean for Burns and his agent?
45:24 Did they just say, you know what, we're done here?
45:26 >> Start over, I think they're gonna give him, if he was the main guy.
45:32 So to me, that tells me a couple things.
45:33 One, that Brian Burns is considered a cornerstone of the franchise and
45:37 they don't wanna get rid of him, no matter what.
45:39 >> You could franchise tag him.
45:41 >> You still could franchise tag him.
45:42 So they don't necessarily gonna lose him for nothing.
45:45 I forgot, this is Derrick Brown's fourth season.
45:47 So he's about to go into his fifth year next year too.
45:50 And Derrick Brown has been the best defensive player on this team all year.
45:53 To be honest, he's been the most consistent.
45:55 He's gotten better as the year's gone on.
45:57 I think he's seven tackles away from breaking his own personal record from
46:00 last year, and we got six games to go.
46:02 So he's been a monster, and he's grown into what we thought he could be,
46:05 as a top ten defensive tackle overall pick.
46:08 The Burns situation, though, I agree.
46:10 I think that's why Scott Fitter is still employed,
46:12 is because of Brian Burns and not having that contract signed.
46:15 And I think his job security may be based on whatever gets done there.
46:20 If they say they get a Brian Burns deal done, it wouldn't surprise me now if they
46:23 get a Burns deal done in the next two weeks.
46:26 If something happens and they decide to go ahead and let's push this,
46:29 let's get it in and go.
46:30 >> It's hard to see anything getting done in season because they were so
46:36 far apart in September.
46:38 And I don't see how they can make that much ground in two months.
46:43 And I mean, especially with Brian being focused on the football stuff,
46:48 I mean, I know his agent's taking care of a lot of it.
46:51 >> Just give him his money.
46:52 >> Yeah, I mean, you have so many, again,
46:57 we could spend a whole two hours on every move that Fitter has made.
47:01 And again, I like Fitter, I think he's a great guy, easy to talk to.
47:05 And I think throughout the years as things have happened,
47:08 as free agency has gone on each year and as the draft happened each year,
47:12 we kind of looked at all the moves he made.
47:14 You're like, okay, that seems like a good move.
47:15 It seems like a good pick, da, da, da, da, da.
47:18 As we get further away from those trades and those free agent signings and
47:21 draft picks, you're like, what has he really hit on?
47:25 Frankie LeBue's probably the best that he's had.
47:29 Outside of that, he's had a lot of swing and missing.
47:32 >> Maybe feeling that wide receiver.
47:34 And even then, I don't think his role that grew into what it is now,
47:38 I don't think that's what they brought him in for.
47:40 So that's almost mistakenly correct.
47:44 He didn't draft Derrick Brown, that was Herney, if I'm not mistaken.
47:47 >> Yeah.
47:48 >> Burns was already here, that was Herney too.
47:51 DJ Moore was a Herney draft pick.
47:53 He drafted Icky, he drafted- >> I don't know if he's a hit or miss.
47:59 >> He drafted Bryce.
48:01 >> He passed on, again, I think we said this two weeks ago.
48:05 He passed on Micah Parsons and Pat Sertain to take JC Horn.
48:09 >> Yeah, he did.
48:10 >> Who has not been on the field, so.
48:13 >> And those are, well,
48:15 Micah Parsons is a generational talent that he passed on.
48:18 >> Other teams passed on Parsons too, but like I said, that year,
48:22 that would have been, in my opinion, you go get the guy to team up with Brian Burns.
48:27 And man, they missed out and they didn't even take the best corner.
48:31 >> You can't, Josh says, in my opinion, you can't go into the next draft with Fitter.
48:35 I kinda agree at this point.
48:36 You can't hire another coach while Fitter is still here.
48:39 And then decide to fire Fitter.
48:40 It's the same pattern you've been doing, where you're not letting them both go.
48:43 >> If you're gonna start with a new head coach, you gotta get a new GM too.
48:47 That way, because obviously, part of this blame is on Fitter too.
48:53 But you wanna bring in a GM,
48:55 cuz if you're gonna fire Scott in a year, that makes no sense.
49:00 Just go ahead and do it now.
49:02 >> Do it now. >> That way he can have a say in this head
49:04 coach.
49:05 And we can finally have some responsibilities here, where it's GM does
49:10 the GM's job, head coach does the head coaching job.
49:13 And if you think about it, since Tepper's been here, every time he's made a change,
49:18 the GM and the head coach have not been coming in at the same time.
49:21 >> Exactly, yeah, it's been one or the other.
49:23 He switched them, and they've never been,
49:26 the one that's been here has had to adapt to whoever's coming in.
49:29 And that's kinda what's with this, the same way, Fitter was here,
49:32 you bring in, right?
49:33 Fitter had a say in that hire, you know what I mean?
49:36 He was going through all these candidates with David Tepper.
49:38 So it feels like Fitter had more control than Reich did this go around,
49:43 which makes sense, the general manager should.
49:46 But I mean, eventually the chickens are gonna come home to roost.
49:49 Eventually there's no one left to point to other than you, Scott Fitter.
49:52 And that's kinda where we are, and you can't fire David Tepper.
49:55 So I mean, I don't know how much he's meddling and whatever.
49:59 I don't even like the word meddling, that's his team, he owns the team.
50:02 He reserves the right to, he can go sit in every meeting he wants to.
50:06 [LAUGH] That doesn't bother me at all, it's his team, he owns it.
50:08 I don't know if he's necessarily dictating personnel decisions.
50:15 I feel like he makes suggestions, but he kinda leaves that up to them and
50:18 they act off the suggestions.
50:20 Same with Nicole, I don't think they're sitting there in the office like,
50:23 we need to go get that player, let's go get him, that kinda thing.
50:25 I don't think that's exactly what's going on.
50:28 But if you look at Frank Wright from preseason in August to today,
50:33 if you put up snapshots side by side, this is clearly a man that has gone through it.
50:38 >> Didn't Matt Ruhle have a similar- >> I think he did, yeah.
50:42 >> [INAUDIBLE] >> And that was over three and
50:44 a half years.
50:46 This is over three months?
50:49 The dude looks like he's aged ten years.
50:51 I almost feel like Frank Wright is relieved at this point,
50:55 that he's no longer coaching the Panthers.
50:57 He stepped in something he wasn't expecting.
50:59 >> This is something that's kinda been talked about a little bit, I think.
51:03 But back at the introductory press conference last year with Frank,
51:07 he said that the time away, when he got fired from Indy last year,
51:11 that time at the end of the rest of that season was a good refresher for him.
51:16 It was good just to kinda sit back, just take everything in and
51:20 just kinda take a moment to relax and
51:22 not be so stressed about the games and everything so much.
51:26 I almost wonder if he got too into the idea of coming back to Carolina,
51:30 where he had played and being the head coach and he looked at the situation.
51:35 You're gonna have a good draft pick, you would assume,
51:38 at that time they didn't know they'd have the number one pick.
51:41 But you like the identity that that team had, the finish that they had.
51:46 And got caught up into that instead of just thinking, you know what,
51:50 maybe the best thing for me is to just take a year off.
51:53 And we've seen coaches do that before.
51:54 Sean Payton did it.
51:55 >> Yep.
51:56 >> And I think if he would have taken that year off,
51:59 maybe he would have had some renewed ideas.
52:02 Maybe he goes to a better situation.
52:05 I don't know, if it wasn't Frank Reich,
52:07 who knows if whoever else they would have hired would have been the right guy anyway,
52:11 either.
52:12 But I just don't know that Frank was equipped to really get right back
52:16 into coaching, I think he really did need that mental break.
52:20 Because what he went through in Indy was tough.
52:23 He was going through a quarterback every year.
52:25 >> Yeah, and similar, kind of similar situation in terms of what I'm seeing from
52:28 their fans.
52:29 I'm seeing Indy fans basically telling Panther fans,
52:32 what you're going through is why we let him go last year.
52:35 The exact situation that happened at Indy last year is why he lost his job.
52:39 And everyone was saying the same thing.
52:40 >> And they're the owner, Jim Irsay, he's very similar to David Tepper in a way,
52:46 because he's kind of involved, right?
52:48 He's very loud about his opinions.
52:53 He may do so more publicly than David Tepper, but I mean,
52:56 that's two pretty tough owners that he's had to work for over the last six or
53:00 seven years.
53:00 >> It's that liquid courage, that's what Jim Irsay's on.
53:03 I just, [LAUGH] I mean, we're gonna have a lot more time to dissect all this.
53:09 I do need to get us out of here,
53:11 because Skylar probably is busy over the next couple of 48 hours or so.
53:16 So David Tepper is speaking to the media, he said tomorrow morning at 1030?
53:20 >> Tomorrow, let me double check here,
53:23 1030 David Tepper followed by Tabor, so.
53:27 >> Okay, so we normally, our normal slot is Tuesdays at 1030 live.
53:32 We may try to figure something out tomorrow afternoon,
53:35 depending on what happens in that press conference.
53:38 If not, maybe Wednesday, we'll give you a regular episode.
53:40 But again, this was an emergency episode.
53:42 I didn't even read the one thing.
53:45 [LAUGH] It's okay, they'll figure it out.
53:47 Presented by Bet Online, believe in Carolina Panthers.
53:51 Shout out to Stu, hopped in and out.
53:53 None of us were prepared for this.
53:55 Well, we kind of were, but we didn't know for sure it was gonna happen today.
53:58 Normally, Tepper speaks to Frank Wright on Tuesday, so
54:00 I kind of thought maybe Tuesday would be the day it happened.
54:03 But I guess he just didn't want to sit around on his hands.
54:05 >> Well, I think too, if you wanna make the change,
54:08 you have to make it almost on Monday.
54:09 >> It's requiring again.
54:11 >> Yeah.
54:12 >> You've gotta get that all figured out, the coordination of it all.
54:16 Who's taking whatever responsibilities up, so it'll be interesting.
54:20 I know we're gonna get some answers tomorrow from Tepper that a lot of fans
54:24 aren't gonna like.
54:25 We're gonna get a lot of answers about Scott Federer, his future, Tabor.
54:29 >> Somebody's gonna ask that question.
54:31 Are you gonna be in there?
54:32 Are you going there?
54:33 >> Yes, yes.
54:33 >> Ask that question, ask that question about Scott Federer.
54:36 >> It'll probably be asked before I can even get a chance to.
54:39 >> [LAUGH] >> There's gonna be a lot of questions
54:42 about that whole thing tomorrow, so.
54:45 >> Yeah, we're gonna figure something out here.
54:47 >> No off season for a second straight year for us here.
54:49 >> No, no, no.
54:51 [LAUGH] So we'll leave it there.
54:54 We'll let you know.
54:55 Subscribe to the YouTube channel, youtube.com/@tobaccaroadsportsradio.
55:00 You'll get a notification for
55:02 Believe in Panthers when we're about to put a new one up.
55:04 I'd imagine we're gonna probably try to put another one up before the week is over,
55:07 just based off of whatever Tepper says and Chris Tabor, the new interim head coach.
55:11 But Panther fans, you got your wish.
55:13 Frank Wright no longer the head coach of the Carolina Panthers.
55:15 Panthers 1 and 10 heading into a flexed game against Tampa Bay on Sunday at 4
55:20 o'clock on Fox.
55:22 We'll see, I don't know, it's always something.
55:26 Every year I've known this Believe in Panther pod,
55:28 something always happens mid season where I'm just like, wow, okay.
55:32 We got something to talk about, but I didn't think it was gonna be this.
55:35 [LAUGH] So we'll get out of here for Jonathan Stewart, for Skylar Collihan.
55:39 I'm Desmond Johnson.
55:40 You've been watching and listening to the Believe in Carolina Panthers podcast here
55:43 on Believe Podcast Networks.
55:44 We'll see you a little bit later on this week.
55:45 Keep pounding.