André Mack is an American sommelier and winemaker. Mack previously worked as a dishwasher in restaurants, and worked all the way up to corporate service trainer in six years. In 2019, Mack published 99 Bottles: A Black Sheep's Guide to Life-Changing Wines. In 2020, Mack opened & Sons in Brooklyn, New York, a wine and ham bar. Mack's wine lists have been listed in The Huffington Post, The Wall Street Journal, and Black Enterprise.
André Mack, a wine entrepreneur, joins ‘New Money’ to discuss how he built his wine company and juggles being a serial entrepreneur.
André Mack, a wine entrepreneur, joins ‘New Money’ to discuss how he built his wine company and juggles being a serial entrepreneur.
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00:00 Hi everyone and welcome to New Money where we talk to movers and shakers about how they
00:08 made it.
00:09 I'm your host Rose Marie Miller here with Andre Mack, a wine entrepreneur.
00:13 Thank you so much for joining me today, Andre.
00:15 Thank you so much for having me.
00:17 So Andre, what inspired you to get into wine of all things?
00:22 It's kind of a funny story.
00:24 I got into wine by watching old episodes of Frasier and it was those two Pompous brothers
00:29 and the way that they talked about wine and had their rituals about wine really wanted
00:33 me to invite wine into my life.
00:35 And never did I think that I would take on a career in wine or I'd be sitting on this
00:39 show on Forbes talking about how I made it, right, because I watched that show.
00:43 But it did give me the courage to walk into a wine shop for the first time.
00:46 I think a lot of times from the outside looking in when you don't see people who look like
00:50 you, you don't think it's for you.
00:53 And somehow, you know, for me I've always thought comedy is this, you know, this antidote
01:00 or foil to pretension.
01:03 And by watching that show, it armed me with some comedic antidotes that I felt like I
01:07 could walk into the store and somehow protect me in a weird way.
01:11 But that's how I got there, was by watching the show and then eventually catching the
01:15 wine bug and, you know, the rest is kind of history.
01:17 So take us back to the beginning, to young Andre and what?
01:22 I don't know, 14, 15 and bring us back, bring us to now.
01:27 Yeah, well, I mean, I was, I think I lived a normal life at 14, 15, you know, I had big
01:32 dreams.
01:33 I don't think it ever, I don't think it was an entrepreneurial spirit then.
01:38 I think just at that point I wanted to play in the NBA.
01:41 I had those kind of dreams, right?
01:42 You know, I think people want to be a singer, actor, entertainer.
01:45 And it's funny, you know, that was my dream and I, you know, I didn't make it.
01:49 And, you know, so I went on with life, not real sure what I was going to do, you know,
01:53 after college, trying to figure that out.
01:55 I'd always worked in restaurants, you know, quick cash, being a waiter.
02:00 And you know, I quickly realized that, you know, the most expensive thing on the menu
02:04 was $50.
02:05 The most expensive thing on the wine list was $5,000.
02:09 And I was like, maybe I should learn something about this, right?
02:11 This is a quick way for me to earn a tip on this $5,000 wine or something like that.
02:17 And that kind of got me to pulling back the layers of the onion and saying that, you know,
02:21 maybe wine could be something for me.
02:23 But I had really no ambitions about wine and I just felt like I just lived a regular kind
02:28 of childhood.
02:29 Yeah.
02:30 And sometimes, you know, that ain't the thing, it's the thing that leads to the thing.
02:33 Correct.
02:34 And I want to know, like, what was it, like, what went through your mind in hindsight now?
02:39 Was it always there for you?
02:41 Like in little ways, was it always there?
02:43 Okay.
02:44 So yeah, I think if I look at it that way, yeah, I think so.
02:46 I mean, the idea, so I grew up in a military family, I'm a military brat, and we traveled
02:51 every two years.
02:52 And it was something about those experiences every two years of having to re-kind of assimilate
02:59 to your environment to where you were.
03:01 And so it was like, you had to be the new kid all the time.
03:04 And I think like getting in front of strangers was, you know, was easy to me.
03:08 It came pretty natural to me being able to talk.
03:11 I think also that kind of translated into working in a restaurant where it's just like,
03:15 you walk up to a table of strangers and you get to know them over, you know, a 60 minute,
03:18 90 minute period.
03:19 And so I think maybe some of those things were there.
03:22 I mean, when I look at it, you know, it's like everything I had to earn with my parents,
03:27 you know, if I wanted a pair of tennis shoes, you know, mom's like, I'm only paying $20
03:31 for a pair of tennis shoes.
03:32 I was like, I can't get anything for $20.
03:33 Bobos, I guess.
03:34 And she says, you know, so what?
03:36 She goes, but here's a list of chores that you can do around the house.
03:40 Right?
03:41 And these are what I'm willing to pay for these chores to be done.
03:44 And you figure out which chores you're going to do to get whatever the rest of the money
03:47 that you need for this, for the sneakers that you need or for whatever that might be, whether
03:51 those were jeans, clothes, you know, stuff like that.
03:55 And so I've always felt like I had a, you know, really interesting work ethic that,
04:00 you know, just was different than most kids in that way.
04:03 It's like, I was always willing to put in the work.
04:05 I wish I had parents like that.
04:06 All the chores I did were free.
04:08 Yes.
04:09 You ain't getting nothing around here.
04:10 Well, I mean, well, and I still, I still had my daily chores.
04:13 And these were like things like, Oh, clean the oven, wash down all the windows, right.
04:18 You know, do some repaint the fence, you know, those kinds of things.
04:21 And I thought, you know, my parents really kind of instilled it in me, like, you know,
04:25 what money meant and how to earn a buck.
04:28 And that there was physical work to it.
04:29 And I think once I started to do those tasks, you realize that you couldn't do them every
04:33 day one, but like two, that you valued the money and the time that you spent in what
04:38 to get said money.
04:39 Right.
04:40 And so you weren't as frivolous, I guess, as I was, as maybe some of my other friends
04:43 were.
04:44 Yeah.
04:45 So do you feel that what you're doing right now is what you were born to do?
04:50 Yeah.
04:52 Was I, it's a strange question because I think about a lot, you know, was I born to do that?
04:56 And like the idea of like, when you talk to other people who are great at what they do,
05:01 you know, sometimes they say, just because you're great at something that's that, that's
05:04 not what you're meant to do in life.
05:08 I think I am born to do that.
05:10 Right.
05:11 And so it just feels natural to me to be able to, you know, and basically all I'm doing
05:15 is communicating, I'm communicating or translating in a way of like taking something that's shrouded
05:20 in mystery and pretense and, and lots of borders and lots of gatekeepers and just translating
05:27 the language of wine to, to, and to layman's.
05:32 So what would you tell someone?
05:33 Because there are a lot of people out here who they don't really know exactly what they
05:38 should be doing, but they're trying to figure it out.
05:40 So they're kind of living, you know, day to day until that happens.
05:42 What would you tell someone to look for, to find that thing that's for them?
05:48 I would say keep moving, keep doing new things, be curious.
05:52 Right.
05:53 I think that my curiosity led me to this point.
05:56 And I think it, especially in my life, I felt like I was just trying to figure out what
06:01 it was I was going to do, what I was good at or what I felt passionate about.
06:07 And then I was going to do it like no one else's business.
06:09 Right.
06:10 I think a lot of things in life is discovery and trying to figure out what those things
06:14 are and how they resonate with you and then figuring it out and then doing it like nobody's
06:18 business.
06:19 Right.
06:20 So it's like, I wasn't real sure I started a wine company.
06:23 I wasn't real sure what I was supposed to be doing.
06:26 Right.
06:27 But what felt natural to me in that moment was I know how to go up to a group of strangers
06:31 and tell my story and tell the story about these wines.
06:35 And I'm just going to do that.
06:37 Right.
06:38 Like nobody's business and figure it out.
06:40 And then when things change or talk to other people, you know, really invest a lot of time
06:44 in it.
06:45 And I think that's it.
06:47 And don't give up.
06:48 Right.
06:49 You know, I think a lot of times it's like it's monotonous work.
06:52 Sometimes it's tedious work.
06:53 Sometimes.
06:54 Right.
06:55 It's the same thing over and over and over.
06:56 But that's how you become great at something.
06:58 Repetition.
06:59 Yeah.
07:00 Yeah.
07:01 Yeah.
07:02 Father of all learning.
07:03 So let's get into the money.
07:04 Where did you get the money to start your wine company?
07:11 I didn't get any money.
07:13 It's so funny.
07:14 I'd like how how I came about doing this wasn't I didn't know how to do anything.
07:18 Right.
07:19 So I didn't I didn't write a business plan.
07:21 I didn't go to business school to figure those things out.
07:24 I mean, I wrote an email to everybody I had ever worked with in the last five years and
07:27 said that I was going to go make wine and hopefully our paths would cross.
07:32 And these are people in the wine industry.
07:35 And lo and behold, like they wrote back and said, hey, well, you know, we have these grapes
07:39 that we normally sell to the bulk market.
07:40 We much rather sell them to you.
07:43 Really?
07:44 And and funny enough, I said, you know, I don't have any money.
07:49 And I remember that this particular person said, don't worry about it.
07:54 You can pay us once you sell it.
07:57 Let me know when you want to come pick it up.
08:00 And I said, I've been meaning to talk to you about that.
08:03 I don't have the place to make the wine or to pick up the fruit.
08:09 And she says, you know, what are you doing?
08:11 I was like, isn't it clear?
08:13 I don't know what I'm doing.
08:14 I have to keep saying it out loud.
08:16 Somehow it makes it real.
08:18 And it was through the good graces and generosity of all these people I met along the way that
08:22 kind of helped me along.
08:24 And so she says, well, you know what?
08:25 Let me talk to our winemaker and to see if we have room here and you can make your wine
08:29 here.
08:30 And so, yeah, no.
08:31 And it's one of those stories where I feel like where I really learned that people invest
08:35 in people.
08:37 And these were people who believed in me when I think that I wasn't real sure that I believed
08:41 in my own ability and and hence saying it out loud, making it real, saying it to the
08:48 world, not because I get the you know, because I get the feedback and the feeling that everybody
08:52 gives to me.
08:53 It was putting it out to the world to hold myself accountable to say, no, I want to do
08:57 this thing.
08:58 I'm going to do this thing.
08:59 And anybody in the world who I cross paths with hears this message.
09:03 If you want to help me, please help me.
09:07 Andre, that takes a lot of heart.
09:10 That takes a lot of heart.
09:12 Were you born with that?
09:13 Did you did you get that somewhere?
09:15 Yeah, I think I think, you know, my mom always said, you know, like, use your platform, not
09:19 only use your platform to be celebrated for the things that you've done, but also talk
09:23 about the things that you're interested in, the things that you want to do in the future
09:26 and give people the opportunity to help you.
09:29 Yeah, right.
09:30 You know, and it's kind of that thing is like, you know, I'm a firm believer in putting things
09:34 out in the universe and letting the universe co conspire with you to help you make stuff
09:38 happen.
09:39 Make stuff happen, right?
09:40 Who knows?
09:41 Maybe something will happen from this.
09:43 You never know.
09:46 What point did you realize, you know, I'm successful?
09:52 That's a very hard question.
09:55 Someday it's not this feeling.
09:57 I think, you know, I think that most people think that, like, you feel successful in this
10:01 thing.
10:02 It's like, it's almost kind of like riding a bike or swimming.
10:04 You're like, Oh, my God, I'm doing it.
10:06 Like nobody you look around, you're like, nobody's there's no training wheels.
10:08 My dad's not holding the back of the bike.
10:10 And you're like, Wait a minute, like, I'm doing it.
10:13 And then but it still feels like a house of cards, like it can all come tumbling down.
10:18 And you know, even you know, what is this?
10:20 This is this is year 15, I believe, for me.
10:27 And although that that feeling never goes away, that there's a house of cards, that
10:33 it could all come tumbling down.
10:34 I think sometimes I think that's an internal thing for me to keep me pushing to keep me
10:38 motivated.
10:42 But it isn't and I don't I don't think that it's like, I walk around the whole time saying
10:45 that I'm successful.
10:46 And in little moments that you realize that you are, or that you realize that you are
10:51 to many other people.
10:52 It's, you know, it's like, I don't, I don't look in the rearview mirror.
10:55 I don't celebrate small victories.
10:57 I just, I just go.
10:59 You keep going.
11:00 Yeah.
11:01 So have you ever experienced?
11:02 Well, I know you have.
11:04 What was it like when you were experiencing imposter syndrome?
11:06 And have you overcome it?
11:08 Yeah, I mean, have I overcome imposter syndrome?
11:14 I think no.
11:17 But like, it's always self doubt.
11:19 I think if you talk to a lot of different people, it's always that small voice in your
11:22 head that says, why did you think you could do this?
11:24 Or what makes you think you do that?
11:28 But I just show up, you know, and it's like, I would tell anybody, it's like 90% of all
11:31 of it is just showing up, being present, and being open, have yourself open to the blessings
11:37 or to the opportunities that might come.
11:39 Like, you know what I mean?
11:41 Like, nothing happens if you stay home, right?
11:44 Or that you don't put the work in or like, you don't go and talk to that person or take
11:48 the meeting.
11:51 So I don't I don't think that I, it's so funny, because that nobody even used that term when
11:56 I was growing up imposter syndrome.
11:58 So I'm like, trying to figure it out.
11:59 It's like, I think I had a little bit of it.
12:01 But like, no, I know that I'm good at what I do.
12:03 Like, I think you have to, you have to have that edge.
12:06 And you have to have that, that confidence to be able to walk into a room and to do your
12:11 thing.
12:12 And I think sometimes, when that little voice turns on, you're like, I've been doing this
12:15 for over 20 years.
12:16 Right?
12:17 Like, I've seen a lot there's, you know, but I think imposter syndrome and all those things
12:22 go away when you allow yourself to be able to walk into any room as yourself.
12:26 Any room.
12:27 Correct.
12:28 And like, I'm just me living and, you know, embodying all all of life experiences and
12:33 work experiences.
12:36 So there's no need to be nervous or to feel like that I don't belong here.
12:39 And wine, the wine industry, is it?
12:42 From my knowledge, it's not a very black industry.
12:45 So I'm sure those rooms didn't look like us.
12:47 Yeah.
12:48 And you still walked in with your head held high.
12:51 How did you do that?
12:52 Yeah, you know, I think, you know, I always said my need, I was stricken by the wine bug.
12:59 And I like every waking moment, I wanted to have wine in my life.
13:03 I knew that I was a late starter, so to speak, in that thing.
13:07 And, you know, and so for me, it was just like, I was just trying to figure out how
13:11 you get more and more and more.
13:13 And my need to be around wine people superseded my need to be around people who look like
13:22 me.
13:23 You know what I mean?
13:24 Like, it was just like, no, no, I'm doing this thing.
13:26 And, you know, I think, you know, growing up in a military family and traveling every
13:30 two years, I was always, you know, probably a handful of people who look like me or one
13:38 or two who look like me.
13:41 And so I think living in America, like sometimes like that is that's just your experience,
13:47 you know, you know, so you say how is it's no different than being a black American living
13:52 in America.
13:53 Right.
13:54 So that's your view looking at it to them.
13:57 What do you feel like you're receiving when they see you come?
13:59 Yeah.
14:00 I mean, I don't I don't waste a lot of time in that.
14:04 Right.
14:05 Because like what you realize is that you're going to think what you think.
14:08 And that's it.
14:09 I guess the biggest thing that I was saying is that I'm not going to let you outwork me.
14:13 Right.
14:14 No, I'm gonna I'm gonna work so hard.
14:15 Just watch.
14:16 Right.
14:17 Like, I mean, I'll make some mistakes, but I'm gonna work hard.
14:19 I got in.
14:20 I didn't have time to realize or to get stuck in that thing of saying, well, what do they
14:25 think about me?
14:26 What do they do this?
14:27 And I think at some point, you know, I realized that wine people weren't snooty.
14:32 Right.
14:33 It definitely feels like an exclusive club and it's elitism just by the very nature of
14:37 what it is.
14:39 But what I found is that people were very sharing and very giving.
14:43 People love to pass on their knowledge and to talk about their things and to share some
14:47 of the wines like, you know, sitting at home and hoarding wine and drinking it by yourself.
14:51 It's not fun at all.
14:52 That's not even the purpose of the point of it.
14:54 It's about sharing it over meals with friends and conversation.
14:58 And so that was it.
15:00 And I just felt like, you know, I just wanted I was very eager to learn.
15:03 I was wanted to work for free.
15:06 Right.
15:07 In those instances where it made sense that like that, that I wanted to I wanted to really
15:11 understand this industry and what it was about.
15:14 And so I didn't look at it that way.
15:16 And I, you know, every now and then I think, you know, you look up and you look around
15:20 and you realize that you're the only person in the room that looks like you.
15:25 And I think you have to be comfortable with that, especially when you're going into industries
15:31 where there's not a lot of people of color and that that are in that industry.
15:36 And I didn't really realize the importance of that until later on after some success
15:41 where, you know, where people saw me there in the space and they said, what are you doing
15:47 there?
15:48 And I was like, I didn't even know that was a job, let alone something that we could do.
15:53 Yeah.
15:54 Right.
15:55 And so the power of representation was was a real thing.
15:58 You know, I didn't I had never really experienced in my life in that way.
16:01 Right.
16:02 You know, because, you know, my mom always said, you can do whatever you want to do,
16:04 baby.
16:05 Right.
16:06 And I believe that.
16:07 And because of our environment and where we were, I was always the person, the only person
16:11 of color for for the most part.
16:14 And so that was something I felt like that I had been comfortable with in a lot of ways.
16:18 Right.
16:19 And so it's just like, oh, no, like, no, I'm in I'm in it about wine.
16:22 Let's let's let's talk about wine.
16:23 Let's do something.
16:24 And, you know, and I think it's that same thing.
16:26 It's like, you know, let me do my thing and let me get in here and then I can bring you
16:30 know, I can open the door for others and say, you know, hey, it's safe here for us.
16:35 It's fun here.
16:36 Right.
16:37 It's welcome in here.
16:38 So lots of things that you can do.
16:39 But yeah.
16:41 So while that wasn't always comfortable, you're OK with not being comfortable because not
16:46 only do you have one business, you have multiple businesses.
16:49 Yes.
16:50 You also have what is it, the pizza shop.
16:52 Right.
16:53 Yep.
16:54 Once again, no MBA.
16:55 You had no business experience at the beginning of this yet.
16:57 You went and did it again.
16:59 What inspired that?
17:01 Just a love for and a passion.
17:04 Like where do you enjoy wine at?
17:06 Yeah.
17:07 Enjoy it at home or enjoy it in the restaurant where you buy it at a wine store.
17:11 And so for me, it was just like it was just a full circle moment.
17:15 You know, I started in restaurants, you know, being a waiter, discovered that there was
17:20 this thing called a sommelier.
17:21 And I'm like, what is that?
17:22 Right.
17:23 And it was always like the best dressed guy in the restaurant kind of just gliding in
17:27 the restaurant, you know, pouring wine, stylish.
17:30 And I was like, what?
17:31 What?
17:32 Who is that?
17:33 What is that?
17:34 And and then understanding it's like that's something I wanted to do.
17:37 I was attracted to that.
17:38 And it's like wine is this thing.
17:40 It's not only just a tasty beverage, but it's, you know, it's history, it's biology, it's
17:44 chemistry.
17:45 It's all of these things.
17:46 It's culture.
17:48 And so for me, it was like I was those are the things I was passionate about in school.
17:51 And so I said, you know what, let me do this thing.
17:55 And then, you know, you know, I worked at, you know, at a very high level being a sommelier
18:00 at some of the best restaurants in the world.
18:02 And you know, you're there one day and you say, no, this is this is this is good.
18:07 This is really good.
18:09 But I realized that I had to be willing to give up the good to achieve the great.
18:13 And something was still missing, even though I had climbed to the very top of this ladder.
18:17 It was just like, hey, I, I, there's still something missing.
18:21 And there's still like these, these, these itches that I need to scratch.
18:23 And I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur.
18:25 I just didn't know.
18:26 I just wanted to own something, whatever that was.
18:29 I didn't I had never really owned anything, you know, something tangible besides like
18:34 my clothes, like those, those types of things.
18:37 And I was like, hey, you know, I want to continue to learn about wine.
18:40 Right.
18:41 And I feel like the best way to do that is maybe to make my own.
18:43 And if I can make my own wine, then I could scratch these other itches I had, itches that
18:48 I had, like wanting to be an entrepreneur, wanting to have more creativity in my life.
18:52 Right.
18:53 And.
18:54 And so I went and did that.
18:56 I left the job that most people wouldn't leave to do that.
18:59 And I built this wine company over the last decade.
19:03 And still something's missing.
19:05 Right.
19:06 And you're like, wow, this is awesome.
19:07 This is great.
19:08 And, you know, I have a profound love for restaurants and dining out.
19:12 It's in my blood.
19:13 It's something that I love.
19:15 And and I was like, hey, I want to open a wine bar like, you know, like people people
19:21 want to find me when I'm out on the road.
19:23 I'm not in the vineyard.
19:24 I want to I want to do this thing.
19:27 And and what went from one place has now turned into seven places in Brooklyn.
19:32 Right.
19:33 So I moved from a wine bar.
19:34 We have a provision store.
19:35 I grew up in San Antonio, Texas.
19:37 So got to have a little breakfast taco spot, seafood restaurant, King Fisher, a bakery,
19:42 pizza place called Wizard Hat Pizza and a wine store.
19:47 And yeah.
19:48 And it's just like it just felt like.
19:51 How can I give back to my community?
19:52 Right.
19:53 So it's the other part is like I'm living in Brooklyn.
19:55 You know, I'm sure my wife felt like, you know, oh, my neighbors thought she was a single
20:00 mother because I was gone all the time.
20:02 And and then you start to look around and, you know, I've been in this neighborhood for
20:06 14 years and everybody lives a different has a different experience with New York and things
20:12 change are constantly changing.
20:14 And my thing was like, how can I contribute to the change in narrative of this neighborhood?
20:18 Like I can sit here and complain, but what could I do?
20:21 What what could me and my family do to make this a better neighborhood?
20:26 And my thing was, we're always leaving our neighborhood to go purchase some of those
20:30 things that because they weren't in our neighborhood.
20:33 And so I said, you know, let's put them in our own neighborhood.
20:37 What's it like juggling all of these businesses?
20:40 Best.
20:41 Really?
20:42 That's the best.
20:43 Like, I think now it's just like constantly being busy.
20:45 I've been on the other side of that.
20:46 Yeah.
20:47 Right.
20:48 So, you know, there's a firm memory planted in my brain of like not having anything and
20:54 sitting there thinking, you know, tumbling hands, like how I'm going to make this work
21:00 and all of a sudden now, like there's lots of moving parts.
21:03 And I don't know, it's just fun.
21:04 It's fulfilling.
21:05 You know, it satisfies a lot of the curiosities.
21:08 It gives me the opportunity to be able to give back and to, you know, to to help other
21:14 people.
21:15 Right.
21:16 You know, and part of opening the business in my neighborhood was really to kind of give
21:21 a place for talented people that I've met over the years and put them in positions to
21:25 succeed and to to show the world their talents.
21:29 Right.
21:30 So I'm not making the pizza.
21:31 Right.
21:32 Right.
21:33 But this kid, Josiah, who was doing a pop up in the basement of some place around the
21:37 corner was making an unbelievable pizza.
21:41 And I was like, I want to be.
21:45 I want to be that conduit or that thing to be able to help him like the other people
21:50 had to help me.
21:51 Right.
21:52 Like someone who doesn't have a business plan, but once has a dream of doing something and
21:55 it's like, let's be partners on this thing, let's do this.
21:59 These are the resources that I have and the way that we can we can help.
22:03 And that's it.
22:04 It's just uplifting, talented and talented people that I meet along the way in this career.
22:09 And other than that, like, you know, and I think early on, what I really realized was
22:14 that you can have it all.
22:17 And I think most people think having it all means that you have to manage it all.
22:21 Right.
22:22 And you can get people you can delegate to have people manage it.
22:26 Right.
22:27 And I feel like that's that's the way that I can do more and put more things on my plate.
22:32 That was certainly my next question.
22:33 Are you hands on in all of this?
22:34 But yeah, no, I like to touch everything.
22:37 I mean, and I think some people say that control freak, but it's not like that.
22:41 It's like, no, no, no.
22:42 There's a certain way and a vision that I have.
22:43 And I want to touch those things.
22:45 I'm not an absentee owner.
22:46 I would never ask anybody to do anything.
22:50 I wouldn't do.
22:51 Yeah.
22:52 I mean, I'm not a clean the bathroom, sweeping the floor, you know, somebody not picking
22:56 up their dog droppings out front, you know, I said, hey, go grab the broom.
22:59 I'll go get a bag and we'll go get we'll tackle this.
23:02 Right.
23:03 But like so for me, wanting to be hands on and have a presence.
23:06 So aside from that, what what are some of the biggest mistakes that you've made over
23:12 the years as being an entrepreneur, serial entrepreneur, really?
23:16 And what are the lessons you learn from those mistakes?
23:21 I think just reacting to things.
23:22 I think some of the biggest mistakes I've made is not reacting quick enough.
23:27 Right.
23:28 When things present itself, I think I mulled them over too long or used to.
23:33 And I think making quick decisions is always kind of the best thing.
23:37 And and just now just having more experience, I feel I feel more confident to make quicker
23:42 decisions.
23:43 But I think I had to learn that along the way and have those experiences.
23:46 But like some of the big mistakes are just, you know, not communicating well, not delegating
23:51 like these are all things that I had to figure out on my own, you know, because there was
23:56 this thing of I can do it all.
23:59 Yeah, that I could do it all.
24:01 And I think I quickly realized that I can't do it all and I need to be able to communicate
24:05 better and to be able to delegate.
24:07 And I think that was the biggest thing for me.
24:09 I made lots of lots of mistakes of, you know, maybe not spending money wisely on some things
24:15 and that thing.
24:16 But I think the biggest thing is, is like not being able to communicate in an effective
24:21 way and in a more timely way, should I say.
24:24 And speaking of not spending money wisely, how did you learn to manage your money?
24:29 You know, I did I did work in finance for a little bit.
24:31 So I worked at I worked at in Citicorp, Citicorp Investment Services in San Antonio.
24:37 I wouldn't say that was it.
24:38 You know, I think, you know, I didn't grow up with this kind of money.
24:43 I don't think we grew up like, you know, investing in mutual funds and stocks and like that and
24:49 being investors and stuff and having a real estate.
24:53 That wasn't part of my life growing up.
24:55 And so for me, it's just asking questions, having people, the proper people in your life
25:00 and on your team to help you make those decisions.
25:03 So where should I put my money?
25:05 What should I do with this?
25:07 Like, I think I came from a place of like, I made it because I don't worry about those
25:13 other things.
25:14 But it's like making the money is one part of it.
25:18 How do you how to make your money work for you is another part.
25:22 And I think a lot of new money doesn't understand that.
25:27 Right.
25:28 The idea that you're like, well, wait a minute, I can make that money I made work harder for
25:31 me.
25:33 And it's those things and that.
25:34 And I think in the last, you know, 10 years for me, that's been kind of the focus and
25:38 understanding like, OK.
25:40 Right.
25:41 I was just counting the nose.
25:42 I needed sales.
25:43 We need to generate revenue.
25:45 And then like you look back and all of a sudden you're like, OK, now we have this stuff here.
25:51 Like, what do you what do we do with it?
25:52 Like, you know, you know.
25:54 So it's like, yeah, you're taking care of your family.
25:56 You've done this other stuff.
25:57 But like, what do you do with the rest of it?
25:59 So how are you smart with it?
26:01 All this money?
26:02 I must ask, who do you trust?
26:06 It's hard.
26:07 Yeah, it's hard.
26:08 You know, it's like and what I say to everybody.
26:11 You know, it's like I trust, but I verify.
26:14 Right.
26:15 And so, you know, I mean, and I just say it's like I will always give people the benefit
26:20 of the doubt.
26:21 So I'll trust I'll be the first one to trust.
26:24 But I verify I follow up.
26:25 I ask questions.
26:26 I will ask somebody else.
26:28 And I think when you first meet me and don't understand that about me, it can feel kind
26:33 of weird, like I don't trust you, but I do.
26:35 Right.
26:36 So it's like you said, this is how this works.
26:38 Great.
26:39 So I'll go ask somebody else.
26:40 How does this work?
26:41 Right.
26:42 Or, hey, this seems a little odd.
26:44 You know, I ask somebody else who has experience or, you know, I talk to another friend who's
26:49 like, you know, he has somebody manages money.
26:52 And, you know, so I come to him and say, hey, you know, my guy said this, blah, blah, blah.
26:56 But like I'm just and I'm curious how things work.
26:58 So and also, I'm not turning a blind eye to like, hey, I've done this thing and you just
27:04 you just go manage this and take care of it for me.
27:06 That doesn't doesn't compute with me.
27:08 Right.
27:09 So I think I'm always quick to I'm the first one to trust.
27:13 Right.
27:14 I feel like that's the only way to be.
27:15 But like, I'm the first one to cut you loose to pay.
27:18 Right.
27:19 Right.
27:20 Right.
27:21 OK.
27:22 Well, Andre, to wrap this up, give us one piece of financial advice, your best financial
27:27 advice and give us a piece of advice for those out there who maybe want to be a serial entrepreneur.
27:35 Got it.
27:36 I think, you know, so we'll start with that advice for serial entrepreneurs is like, just
27:39 keep going.
27:40 Like, I think like I think it's like I'm full speed ahead until I get my failure.
27:45 Right.
27:46 It's like it's like keep going, keep trying stuff.
27:48 And I think the key is like have fun with it and make sure that you're learning with
27:51 it like that you're learning.
27:52 I think that's that's it.
27:54 Right.
27:55 I found myself in some situations where I started this company and I realized I wasn't having
27:59 fun.
28:01 And so I shut it down.
28:02 Right.
28:03 Like I think at that point, life's too short.
28:05 Life's too hard to not for me to not be having fun and to continue to learn.
28:09 So I feel like for those is like go fast, fail fast and keep going.
28:17 Right.
28:18 Because those failures, I feel, are the things that make you a stronger entrepreneur.
28:22 You know what to do and not to do.
28:23 And you're learning from those mistakes.
28:25 They're not L's.
28:26 They're lessons.
28:27 Right.
28:28 OK.
28:29 You're teaching me something right now.
28:30 Huh?
28:31 You don't even know what you're teaching me.
28:32 But yeah.
28:33 But you know that.
28:34 I mean, I think that's really it.
28:35 I mean, everybody's so afraid to like to fail.
28:39 It's like, no, no, no.
28:40 Like at least you tried.
28:41 Like you're winning because you tried.
28:42 Because you know how much courage it takes to actually do it.
28:45 Right.
28:46 It's so easy for everybody to sit on the sideline and tell you what they would do or how they
28:51 would do it or whatever.
28:52 But it really takes courage to say that I'm going to do this thing.
28:57 I put myself out there.
28:59 I'm going to put up my own money, which, you know, my own money or someone else's money
29:06 to do this thing.
29:07 And I say, you know what?
29:09 And the quicker that you fail, I think the quicker that you'll be more successful in
29:13 the next in your next ventures.
29:17 As far as money, like managing money, I think it's like getting an accountant as soon as
29:25 possible.
29:26 Right.
29:27 Keep track of it.
29:28 And you know, people put it off.
29:29 You put it off.
29:30 You say this and you don't do that.
29:33 And I think the sooner that you have someone in there looking after your books and you
29:38 know, you don't give them free rent.
29:39 They're just looking at your stuff and giving you a view of what it looks like.
29:43 And I think a lot of new money and newer entrepreneurs, they think that the money will never stop.
29:50 Right.
29:51 And it's like, no, it will stop at one point.
29:53 It'll go flat or won't or those things.
29:56 And I feel like always planning for those days and understanding like what saving looks
30:00 like because I still think that most people don't like what you what comes in.
30:04 They spend just as much.
30:06 Andrew, you're amazing.
30:07 Thank you so much.
30:08 Absolutely.
30:09 And thank you so much for joining me today.
30:11 It's been a pleasure.
30:12 I would have never thought.
30:13 But thank you.
30:14 Yes.
30:14 Yes.
30:14 Thank you.
30:15 Thank you.
30:15 Thank you.
30:16 Thank you.
30:16 Thank you.
30:17 Thank you.
30:17 Thank you.
30:18 Thank you.
30:18 Thank you.
30:19 Thank you.
30:19 Thank you.
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