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TechTranscript
00:00 We have a really incredible big brain panel today.
00:03 The topic is, what can artists learn from tech
00:07 and what can tech learn from artists?
00:09 And we've got some of the most incredible people
00:12 from both the tech and the music industry here today.
00:15 And I wanna quickly let them introduce themselves
00:18 before we jump into it
00:19 and take out as much learning as we can.
00:21 Liz.
00:22 - Hi everyone.
00:23 So great to be here at South by Southwest.
00:26 My name's Liz Adoniji.
00:27 I am the regional vice president of sales
00:29 for a customer data platform called Twilio Segment.
00:33 We work with companies large and small
00:37 to help them navigate their customer data problems,
00:40 to help them deliver better experiences to their customers,
00:43 create loyalty all through using,
00:46 putting good data to good use.
00:49 Thank you.
00:51 - Jaden.
00:52 - Hey everybody.
00:52 I'm Jaden Comerford.
00:54 I'm the founder and CEO of Unified Music Group.
00:57 We work across various segments of the music industry
00:59 working with some of Australia's biggest artists
01:01 like Vance Joy, Ocean Alley, Tash Sultana to name a few.
01:05 I'm also a partner at Side Stage Ventures,
01:08 which is an early stage venture capital fund
01:10 that is working across various sectors in tech.
01:14 But I personally have a very strong interest
01:17 in music and entertainment technology.
01:19 So yeah, always trying to look for ways
01:22 to look into the future
01:24 and find ways to move the industry
01:28 and our business forward always with a view
01:30 of how we can build careers for our artists
01:32 for the long term.
01:33 - Wayne.
01:35 - Thanks.
01:36 I'd have to say this is the coolest panel I've ever been on.
01:38 I'm used to finance or tech panels.
01:40 As you can imagine how that's a bit different.
01:42 So I'm Wayne, I'm from Superhero.
01:44 We're an online share trading company
01:46 and also we do superannuation as well,
01:49 allowing people to invest their superannuation
01:51 into either diversified portfolios
01:53 or onto the ASX itself without a self-managed super fund.
01:56 So we use Twilio segments,
01:58 so hopefully we can tee this up.
02:01 - So if you think about what artists
02:05 are generally really good at.
02:06 So the most successful artists are incredible
02:08 at hacking algorithms, breaking out on social media,
02:12 organic growth through their online communities.
02:15 And what tech are really, really good at
02:17 is having a incredible one-on-one relationship
02:20 with their customers at scale.
02:21 And that's directly off platforms,
02:23 that's newsletters, SMS, a whole bunch of other ways.
02:27 And so Wayne, what I'd like to ask you first
02:32 is what are you guys doing to create really good
02:36 one-on-one relationships with your customers
02:39 with the framework that the music industry
02:41 isn't very good at that?
02:42 So what can we learn from how you guys do that?
02:44 - Yeah, look, I think we're always trying to improve
02:46 and we're always trying to do the best we can,
02:49 but customer experience to us is the key.
02:52 And we put the customer, the listener and the artist,
02:55 I suppose, the consumer,
02:57 at the center of every decision we make.
02:59 So any decision we're making about the platform
03:01 or how we talk to the customer or what we're gonna do
03:03 is with the customer in mind.
03:05 And that includes having that conversation,
03:08 as you said, one-on-one.
03:09 And that's everything like how does the customer
03:11 wanna be spoken to, what do they wanna see,
03:13 what are they interested in,
03:14 but also where do they wanna be spoken to?
03:16 Do they want SMS?
03:17 Do they wanna push notification?
03:18 Do they want an email?
03:19 Do they want newsletters?
03:20 And it all sounds cool and it all sounds easy.
03:23 And when I meet you here,
03:24 I can probably tell how I talk to you
03:26 because I'm meeting you one-on-one and I get to know you.
03:29 But it's all about the data we have.
03:30 It's all about capturing that data,
03:32 putting that data into the right systems
03:34 and allowing the systems to help us then.
03:38 - Did we just lose audio?
03:42 No, we're okay.
03:43 Okay, and so what are those systems?
03:47 I don't know if you and Liz can talk about that,
03:49 but tell me about what a tech company does.
03:52 Liz, can you actually start?
03:53 What does a tech company do to have a one-on-one
03:56 relationship with a huge customer base
03:58 or in an artist sense, a huge fan base?
04:01 - Oh, yep, this is working now.
04:04 I would say that a lot of companies today,
04:07 a lot of companies today are data or tech companies.
04:10 Like we look to the audience,
04:12 put your hand up if you work for a company
04:15 that deals with customers, end users, listeners.
04:19 It's pretty much everybody.
04:20 And I would typically argue that every company today
04:24 is a data company and every business
04:27 should make it their business to understand,
04:30 in this case, their listeners, their fans intimately.
04:35 I did some research just before this panel.
04:38 I'm a huge fan of Beyonce.
04:40 She has about 300 million followers.
04:43 That in itself could be an entire continent
04:46 that's bigger than I'm from the UK.
04:47 It's bigger than the UK, Australia combined, and then some.
04:51 How, if you are Beyonce or a record label,
04:55 how can you intimately know every single person
04:58 on a one-to-one basis?
05:00 I mean, the most ideal way to do it
05:02 is to hire 300 million people to service 300 million fans.
05:07 So you know exactly what they like,
05:09 what they don't like, what they listen to,
05:11 what they didn't listen to, what gigs they went to,
05:14 what shows they hated.
05:15 But the reality is trying to, as a business,
05:19 hire the equal number of staff to support the teams,
05:22 the customers you have, is economically not feasible.
05:26 And so that's where technology helps
05:29 to level the playing field.
05:31 Technology such as Twilio Segments Customer Data Platform
05:35 allows brands to answer three things.
05:38 Who are my customers?
05:39 Where are they?
05:40 And what are they doing?
05:42 And knowing that makes a really big difference
05:45 in how you speak to that user on a one-to-one basis.
05:49 A lot of companies that we speak to today,
05:51 large multinational ones and small ones,
05:54 are after the Netflix effect.
05:56 They wanna know what you want before you want it
05:58 and serve it to you and deliver experiences that matter.
06:01 But the biggest challenge is data is everywhere.
06:05 CRM systems in app, mobile,
06:09 it's in siloed systems that don't talk to each other.
06:13 And when we speak to our customers,
06:15 we really work with them to unify all of that data,
06:18 connect all that touch points of a single user
06:21 into what we call a golden profile of that user,
06:24 and enable them to push that data
06:27 into tools that need it most.
06:29 So for instance, if you know that there's a Beyonce fan
06:33 who regularly likes to visit concerts
06:37 that she's playing at,
06:38 being able to target me with an early release
06:42 and give me something that I would love to create loyalty
06:46 is really important.
06:47 But it's only powerful if you know what Liz wants.
06:52 And serving a unique message to me at the right platform,
06:55 like you said, makes a really big difference
06:58 to business metrics and customer experiences.
07:00 I'd ask you as a customer, how have you found that?
07:04 - Yeah, I think everything you said is 100%.
07:06 I'm interested to hear how you guys are doing it
07:09 and the music industry intersect,
07:10 but I think it's also the right time.
07:13 You've got to serve at the right time,
07:14 in the right place, and with the right message.
07:16 And from a consumer here, or sorry,
07:19 from a business perspective,
07:20 I can go hire a whole data team
07:22 and I can have five guys, 10 guys, girls, whatever,
07:26 going through that data and understanding it.
07:30 Or you can build into some of these systems
07:33 that have been built over many years
07:34 with all the algorithms built into them.
07:35 But I think let's understand
07:37 what you guys are doing as well.
07:38 I'm interested.
07:39 - Well, let me ask you, Jaden.
07:40 You sign often artists nobody have heard of.
07:45 At one point, that artist was called Vance Joy.
07:48 Now everyone's heard of him.
07:49 25 monthly, million monthly listeners on Spotify,
07:52 absolutely exploded across all those channels.
07:55 How are you thinking about one-on-one relationships
07:57 with your artists?
07:58 - Yeah, it's a good question,
08:01 'cause I think if anything,
08:02 the music industry probably isn't that great
08:04 at organizing this kind of stuff.
08:06 And 'cause the thing that comes up for me
08:08 when you say 300 million Beyonce fans,
08:10 like how do we reach even 1% of them
08:15 in the most intimate way possible?
08:17 And so that idea of the 25 million monthly listeners,
08:21 having a direct relationship with that many people
08:23 is going to be difficult.
08:25 But it's about how do we actually know as much as we can
08:29 about the most passionate fans so we can build that.
08:32 And I think something you said the other day, Luke,
08:34 was really interesting, where you said
08:36 artists are some of the best use cases of social media,
08:41 because they're some of the most authentic influences
08:45 in the world.
08:46 It's natural for an artist to be like,
08:47 "Hey, look at me, look at this thing I'm doing.
08:49 "This is great, da-da-da."
08:51 And people are like, "Yeah, that's cool."
08:52 Whereas if I'm doing something like that,
08:54 it's probably a bit like,
08:55 "Who is that guy?
08:56 "What's he trying to do?
08:57 "Why is he trying to sell me some shampoo
08:59 "or something like that?"
09:01 But it's like, how do we then take all this,
09:05 a mass of data, and turn it into something
09:07 we can actually use?
09:08 You know, the most basic thing we use is obviously email,
09:11 but I think the truth is I don't have
09:14 a good enough answer right now,
09:15 and that's why I'm actually really excited to be here
09:17 with people that aren't in the music industry,
09:19 that are successfully doing this outside the music industry
09:21 and going, "Well, we're here,
09:23 "it's the name of this panel, right?
09:24 "What can artists learn from tech?
09:28 "Why don't we workshop this?
09:30 "How do we actually do this?"
09:32 'Cause I've got a lot of ideas.
09:33 You know, our industry has a bunch of challenges.
09:37 One is the fragmentation of the industry.
09:40 So you have record companies, promoters, agents,
09:43 managers, artists.
09:44 Incentives aren't always aligned
09:47 to gather data in that way,
09:48 so ultimately at the end of the day,
09:50 it comes back to the artist and the manager.
09:53 Like, that's the team that has to do this work.
09:57 And oftentimes, that's the team
09:59 that's doing most of the work already.
10:02 So once again, maybe you're pitching to potential clients here
10:07 or maybe we're creating a startup here.
10:10 - Can I ask, though?
10:11 Like, we talk, you say 300 million fans,
10:14 and those are the fans you know about, not the--
10:15 - Follows on Instagram.
10:16 - Yeah, not the people who don't follow her
10:18 but still listen to her music, you know?
10:19 So there's a lot more out there.
10:21 And we spoke about something the other day,
10:23 which is a super fan concept, which is new to me,
10:25 but it's something in our business that we,
10:28 you know, there's 100% of the customers,
10:30 so we've got over 250,000 customers
10:32 on our platform at the moment.
10:33 We can't speak uniquely to every single customer,
10:36 as much as we'd like to think we can.
10:39 We don't have data on, let's say, 10% of them
10:42 because they've logged in and never done anything.
10:44 But at the top end, there's super fans.
10:46 Are those people, I'm not saying super fans
10:48 'cause it's the word you use,
10:49 but there's the traders, the investors
10:51 who are constantly on the platform
10:52 who we know a lot about.
10:54 And I just wonder whether we really need to speak uniquely
10:57 to all 300 million of our fans,
10:59 or whether just talking to 10%, 20% of our fans,
11:02 like that's a big number, what, 60 million customers
11:05 where there are 20% would do.
11:07 And it's something, you know, tech here,
11:09 we try to speak to every customer,
11:10 but maybe in the music industry,
11:12 it's more about the top 20%.
11:14 - Yeah, well, I guess that's why I introduced that term
11:17 'cause it's kind of, if it's not already a buzzword,
11:19 it's about to be this super fan concept,
11:21 which we've always had super fans.
11:23 They're people that like go to concerts
11:25 and buy t-shirts and like music.
11:26 Like it's a pretty simple concept,
11:29 but to that point of,
11:31 and I think it's worth continuing to focus
11:34 on this 300 million number,
11:36 because the reality is all those 300 million people
11:39 aren't gonna go to a concert,
11:41 aren't gonna buy a t-shirt,
11:42 aren't gonna buy the special color of the vinyl
11:45 or subscribe to the fan club or something like this.
11:48 But it's like, how can we,
11:51 this is gonna sound negative,
11:52 so I'll try to flip it quickly to like a positive,
11:55 but it's like, how do we extract the most amount of value
11:57 from that audience?
11:59 But I don't wanna put it that way.
12:00 - How do you offer the most amount of value?
12:01 - It's more that, 'cause I don't know
12:03 if anyone can resonate with this,
12:04 but like I have a music streaming subscription service,
12:09 as in I subscribe to Spotify and Apple.
12:15 I subscribe to all of them
12:16 because I wanna support our industry.
12:18 But even still, that maybe means I'm paying
12:20 like 60 bucks a month for all the music in the world.
12:23 That for me, as someone that loves music,
12:26 still doesn't feel like enough.
12:27 Like when I was a kid,
12:28 I used to spend $60 a week on CDs.
12:31 And so, but I'm a super fan.
12:34 I'm not just like the general person
12:36 that's sort of wandering through the supermarket
12:38 and maybe hears a song
12:39 and maybe thinks about maybe listening to it at some point
12:41 and maybe once or twice a year they go to a concert.
12:43 Like I'm going to two gigs tonight in Melbourne,
12:46 because it's my job, but also I love music.
12:51 So--
12:52 - Then I would argue, sorry to, can I?
12:55 - Well, we're just gonna complete the thought,
12:56 but then please do argue with me.
12:58 Because what I was just gonna say was,
13:00 how do we optimise me to make sure,
13:03 not only are we getting the,
13:04 extract the most amount of value out of me,
13:06 but also how do we give me the best experience?
13:08 How do we make sure that I'm actually spending my money
13:11 on the things I wanna spend my money on,
13:12 which is supporting artists?
13:13 I'm gonna jump in.
13:14 For one second, it's not extracting value.
13:16 It's giving the best experience and what you want.
13:18 - Yeah.
13:19 - Like think about that differently.
13:20 You gotta give that customer the best experience
13:22 and understand what all those customers want.
13:25 Cue Twilio segment in a second.
13:27 But to then extract the best value, if that makes sense.
13:29 - That's right.
13:30 And that's where I was saying I wanted to flip it.
13:31 'Cause that's ultimately what we're here to talk about.
13:34 I think, but, or at least what I wanna talk about.
13:37 How do we create the best experience for music fans?
13:40 Because they are the ones who are gonna be the ones
13:43 that are gonna be the ones that are gonna be the ones
13:45 that allow our artists to essentially have careers.
13:50 And so, yes.
13:52 - So I, these things both of you mentioned,
13:55 the concept of superfans and focusing potentially
13:59 on the top 20% of superfans.
14:01 I would argue as an artist or maybe a label,
14:04 how can you determine what a superfan is
14:06 if you haven't seen the data, crunched the data,
14:09 understood buying behaviours?
14:11 And as a superfan or as a fan in general,
14:15 why should I not have focus?
14:17 Why should you only focus on 20%?
14:19 Shouldn't you have a relationship with me?
14:21 And I feel that's where technology and data,
14:26 technology certainly with data helps you create
14:28 one-on-one experiences with every single one of your fans
14:33 or casual listeners in very different ways.
14:36 You don't have to speak to them in the same way.
14:38 In fact, we found out this week with Ticketek
14:42 being fined half a million for spamming
14:45 that that is not the right approach.
14:46 I think what is the right approach is understanding,
14:50 for instance, that a user only visited one concert,
14:54 she's not really a superfan and she only went
14:56 because it was someone's birthday.
14:57 So maybe speak to her in a different way.
14:59 Whereas I know Liz, she doesn't live in the country
15:03 that Beyonce lives in, but she follows her everywhere,
15:05 which I don't, but I'm just using as an example.
15:07 That's a superfan.
15:08 And having, being able to apply AI and ML on top of that
15:12 to identify the propensity to buy a new single
15:17 when it's released or buy an album or go to a performance
15:22 is table stakes when you're trying to not only
15:25 build fan loyalty and grow revenue,
15:28 but as a business move the needle
15:30 at something that matters.
15:31 And I think individually as a customer,
15:34 every customer by giving you their details,
15:38 we have earned the right to personalise
15:42 every engagement they have
15:43 to deliver great experiences for them.
15:45 - So Liz, let me ask you then, you've got,
15:48 this can apply to both tech and artists.
15:50 So you've got the customer that dips their toe in,
15:52 maybe streams music.
15:53 You've got the customer that registers,
15:55 some signs up to a newsletter, whatever.
15:57 You've got the customer that buys every show, every ticket,
15:59 signs up for the premium subscription, whatever.
16:03 I think we all agree, and it's very logical,
16:05 we need to speak to every category differently.
16:07 And if you have the right data,
16:09 you can work out who those people are.
16:10 My question to you is, Liz, how do you do it?
16:13 What do you do?
16:14 What tools do you need to have?
16:16 How do you actually apply the strategy
16:19 to a practical execution?
16:20 - Yeah, that's a great question.
16:21 - Also, just to defend the music industry for a sec,
16:24 we already do this.
16:26 I think though we do it quite manually.
16:28 And I think oftentimes there is data,
16:30 but also oftentimes there's just like gut instinct
16:33 into how we're doing this.
16:34 So I would love to understand how you do it.
16:36 'Cause I think this might be one of the most valuable things
16:40 we can get from this panel.
16:41 - My perspective, like if I look,
16:44 the last 30 years, the whole music industry has changed,
16:48 like seismically.
16:49 I, without revealing my age,
16:51 remember the days when you used to carry music
16:53 around with you.
16:54 I remember my first cassette tape and my CD player,
16:58 where you would queue up, in the UK we had HMV.
17:02 I don't know if you guys had it over here.
17:04 But it's so nostalgic now
17:06 when you think you would queue up,
17:07 your favourite artist has released an album or a song,
17:10 you'll go to HMV, you'll purchase a piece of music
17:15 and you might discover new music
17:18 by wandering along the aisles.
17:20 That's no longer the case anymore.
17:22 You mentioned Spotify.
17:24 They've made it easy for you to have hundreds of thousands
17:27 of songs in your phone.
17:30 And it also has made it easy for you not to be loyal
17:33 because they surface different types of music to you
17:36 and they sense that they know you
17:39 by your listening behaviour
17:41 and they'll surface new content that they think you'll like.
17:45 But as an artist, how do you become like a Netflix
17:48 or a Spotify?
17:48 How do you have access to that data
17:51 and make sense of that data and act upon that data?
17:54 Today, much like brands that we speak to,
17:57 we work with about over 25,000 companies globally.
18:02 They tell us that their data lives on their app,
18:05 their mobile, CRM systems, social media platforms.
18:10 So you may know things about your user
18:12 but you probably have siloed views of each customer.
18:16 It becomes powerful when you can stitch
18:18 all of those interactions that they have with you
18:21 into a single profile to do things like,
18:23 oh, well, she had a really terrible experience
18:25 at Fyre Festival, probably not sell her another ticket
18:29 to that.
18:30 Or let's make sure that our marketing team
18:33 is aware that there has been a complaint that has been made.
18:38 Don't serve advertising to this particular user
18:41 because it will be a waste of money.
18:42 So let's suppress that.
18:44 Or we've identified who our super fans are
18:47 because they've whatever given metrics,
18:50 the number of purchases, visits, listens.
18:53 Let's send that to Facebook or Google
18:56 and have them layer their data on top of that
18:58 to find us new customers or listeners
19:02 that look like our seed users.
19:04 And that's how you can kind of multiply the effectiveness
19:06 of your loyalty, if you wanna put it that way,
19:09 by driving other metrics that matter
19:11 and getting closer to the customer.
19:13 - Wayne, you have started companies
19:16 from seed to incredible valuations.
19:20 Talk to us about what tools a seed stage company
19:25 should be using to get on the front foot with this.
19:28 And also know that you're also talking to artist managers
19:31 who have usually won men or woman shows
19:35 and they don't have much budget
19:36 but they need to fucking get this right.
19:37 So what are we doing?
19:38 - Yeah, look, we're gonna spend a bit more time
19:40 after this discussing how this whole industry works
19:43 'cause I'm fascinated how it sounds.
19:46 For me, it's all about data collection.
19:47 For my sins, I spent 14 years in online retail,
19:51 online bookstore, Booktopia.
19:52 And so I spent a lot of time in the retail space.
19:57 And the retail space of five years ago, 10 years ago
19:59 is not too different to where it sounds
20:01 like the music industry is now.
20:03 So in my head, the person buying merch at the concert
20:06 and the person who bought the ticket
20:07 and the person who was on Spotify
20:09 and the person who followed someone on Facebook,
20:11 all those data points need to come together
20:13 and that's what Liz is talking about.
20:15 And the way the retailers have done it,
20:17 well, they own the point of sale systems
20:19 at all of the spots, which is easy.
20:20 But still, when you come in,
20:21 they're trying to link your credit card
20:23 to your mobile number, to your email address
20:25 and all of these things.
20:26 And I think the music industry needs to work out a way
20:28 how they can get, know that that person
20:30 bought Beyonce merch, we're just gonna keep rolling
20:32 with Beyonce, I think, or Vans Joy, whichever one we go.
20:34 But at the concert, but also went to the concert,
20:37 bought the ticket themselves,
20:38 didn't buy the ticket themselves.
20:39 So it's interesting because when I was at Booktopia,
20:42 we had lots of data and we didn't use a lot of tools.
20:44 We had a team and we didn't use any tools in between.
20:47 And then when I started Superhero, we were quite young,
20:50 we were seed and these tools were then available.
20:53 When I started Booktopia, they weren't available.
20:55 And we went straight to Segments.
20:57 So Segments are tool, and I'll just be very quick,
20:59 explain it if you don't mind.
21:01 So Segments are tool where we just pump all of our data
21:03 into, it's quite easy to set up,
21:05 you need a bit of developers, but once you get it,
21:07 you put all your data in there.
21:09 And then once it's in Segment,
21:10 you can then take it across to all different places.
21:13 So we send ours to our CRM system,
21:15 we send it to our data warehouse,
21:19 just all these different systems.
21:21 And then what you can do is you can link
21:22 with a click of a button, your Facebook feeds,
21:24 your users, your Instagram users, your social users,
21:27 all with, so we've got our data coming in,
21:28 we've also got all of our social data coming in,
21:31 and then we can either put it all together and analyse it
21:34 or send it to a tool that can analyse it for us as well.
21:37 And I know Segment also has tools themselves
21:39 that allow you to analyse it as well.
21:41 So there's a range of things you can do.
21:43 The thing for me, the music industry needs to understand
21:45 where's the data coming from.
21:47 The tools are great, and the tools work really well.
21:49 Segment works really well for all of this stuff,
21:52 but where's the data coming from?
21:53 We can all say socials, we know that.
21:55 We can maybe say some of the music streaming services,
21:57 I don't know whether they give you data or not,
21:59 I'm just assuming they probably don't, but maybe they do.
22:02 But then where are you getting the merch from?
22:03 Where are you getting the ticket sales from?
22:04 Where are you getting all the rest from?
22:06 Because once you've got the data, it's powerful.
22:08 - Yeah, well, it's the whole first party data thing, right?
22:12 So yeah, in some cases we can--
22:14 - Sorry, what is first party data?
22:16 - Well, it's when you know the customer,
22:18 when you actually, like if someone's bought something
22:19 from your website, you know who they are.
22:22 Whereas if someone streams a song on Apple or Spotify,
22:26 we don't know who that person is.
22:27 And so that's not like a slight on the industry,
22:31 there's plenty of industries that have that structure.
22:35 But when such a huge part of our interaction
22:38 with our audience is unable to be accessed in that way,
22:42 that means we need to look at what else we can do.
22:43 So we can, in Australia anyway, we can get ticketing data,
22:47 we can get our e-commerce data, we can get our social data.
22:49 So, and you would potentially argue that like,
22:53 that's where if we're starting by focusing on the superfans,
22:57 that's where they're coming from.
22:58 If someone's coming to your website and buying a t-shirt
23:01 and a piece of vinyl and all that,
23:02 like they're pretty motivated, right?
23:04 To be a part of your story.
23:06 - Hands up who came here and who's here
23:09 and put their name on a guest list
23:10 to come into the Rolling Stone courtyard.
23:12 You have all given us first party data.
23:16 Just so you know.
23:18 Just keep that in mind when you're running your own shows,
23:21 doing your own tours, things like that.
23:23 Like there's other ways, there's ways to get people to,
23:25 if you've got to get people to come to you,
23:27 you may as well work out a way to gate away
23:30 so you can get their data.
23:32 And then that's when we use tools like Segment
23:34 and to be able to communicate better in the future.
23:38 - So, we said before we came on stage,
23:41 none of us have met before besides one Zoom call.
23:44 So we're learning about each other's businesses.
23:47 What's Segment?
23:49 Is that a Twilio product?
23:50 - It is.
23:51 So Twilio is one of the number one communications platforms
23:54 in the world.
23:55 So think Uber, when you're communicating with your driver,
23:59 Twilio powers the messaging that goes behind that
24:02 and they work with a number of companies.
24:05 Segment is a customer data platform.
24:08 It helps you answer three things, like I mentioned,
24:10 who's my customer, where are they and what are they doing?
24:13 By collecting data from different systems that you own,
24:17 unifying that data into a single golden profile
24:20 and allowing you to put that data to use
24:23 by pushing it into platforms that need it most.
24:26 So for instance, your analytics platform
24:28 for you to understand how users are engaging
24:30 across all of your different touch points,
24:32 so your mobile app, website.
24:34 It could be to your marketing platforms
24:38 now that there's first party data collected
24:40 so that this South by Southwest can email you
24:43 with the next event.
24:44 - Rolling Stone.
24:45 - Rolling Stone.
24:46 (laughing)
24:48 And it could be to your social media platforms
24:52 for retargeting or suppression targeting,
24:55 removing you from different tools.
24:57 We are an enabler of good data.
25:00 So we help you achieve your personalization goals,
25:04 loyalty goals by helping you collect, clean
25:10 and activate on good data.
25:12 - Jaden, I'm so disappointed in myself
25:14 'cause I should have asked that question at the top.
25:15 So thank you.
25:17 - You're welcome.
25:18 - Jaden, tell me, we've spoken a lot about one-on-one
25:21 and we've learned a lot about how tech do it
25:24 and how managers should be starting to think about it.
25:27 Can you share to the tech world and to startups here
25:33 what artists do so well on socials?
25:37 How do they hack the algorithms?
25:38 How do they grow?
25:39 What can brands be doing that artists do so well?
25:42 - Well, I think we touched on it a little bit.
25:45 Like artists, they're real, they're authentic.
25:49 What they do is desired by their audience.
25:52 So whether it's Beyonce or whether it's the Terrys
25:55 who are playing next,
25:55 like their audience are buying into what they do.
25:59 So I guess there's that sort of inherent authenticity.
26:03 So I guess you could partner with artists.
26:09 - That's like something that is like,
26:11 when I first started in the music industry
26:13 like 20 odd years ago,
26:14 like that was like still relatively like new
26:19 for like artists to sort of work with brands.
26:22 And like when I was a kid growing up in like the punk world,
26:24 if you worked with a brand, like you were a sellout,
26:26 like it was over.
26:27 And now, because I think we've found ways to make it work,
26:34 like that's a very good starting point.
26:36 - I also think brands have become a lot better
26:38 at adding value.
26:38 So this is, today's a very good example of that.
26:41 Twilio, our sponsor of Rolling Stone,
26:43 which have enabled this panel
26:45 and all the artists that are playing today,
26:47 same with Jim Beam, same with Old El Paso.
26:49 I think brands are being a lot,
26:51 are working at how to,
26:53 what you were talking about before, Wayne,
26:54 adding value as opposed to extracting value.
26:56 - And I like how the music industry,
26:58 there's lots of collaborations.
26:59 Like when one artist collaborates with another
27:02 to create something new and how they disrupt themselves.
27:05 Like if I think of Lady Gaga,
27:07 when she first entered the scene,
27:09 to the sort of music she's making today,
27:10 like they evolve, disrupt themselves and innovate.
27:14 And I'd love to see brands do more of that.
27:17 - Yeah, and I was just gonna say,
27:18 like what I think the music industry does well,
27:20 looking from the outside, is that emotional connection.
27:22 They connect with you emotionally.
27:24 And we see in our industry,
27:25 a brand that connects with a consumer emotionally,
27:28 they become a super fan
27:30 and they start talking about that brand to everyone else.
27:33 When you have a good experience with a brand,
27:35 when you have a good experience with a company,
27:37 you're more likely to recommend them.
27:39 And that's what we can learn from artists.
27:40 - And also knowing that consumers are not one dimensional.
27:43 Like I know the music I listen to at the gym
27:45 and the treadmill is very different
27:47 to the music I listen to
27:49 when I'm trying to power through work.
27:51 And very different to the music I listen to
27:54 on a Saturday morning with my 18 month old child.
27:57 So kind of appreciating that a single user
28:01 has different facets is really important.
28:03 - And it's actually really nice to hear people
28:05 outside the industry say good things about the industry.
28:08 'Cause I think inherently,
28:10 we kind of beat ourselves up a lot in the music industry.
28:13 I definitely am pretty hard on myself,
28:15 what we could be doing better, what we didn't do.
28:18 But at the end of the day,
28:21 artists are some of the coolest people in the world.
28:23 Like how cool are artists?
28:25 Right?
28:27 I don't know who your favorite artist is,
28:28 but I don't know, how fucking cool is Bruce Springsteen?
28:32 You know what I mean?
28:33 - And then you compare that with brands
28:34 that's like, it's very hard to go,
28:37 oh, that brand is cool.
28:38 Like when it happens, it's rare.
28:40 And I think like, and it's also can be fleeting.
28:44 - Especially in the tech space.
28:45 - Well, it sounds pretty cool.
28:46 - So I think like the exciting opportunity
28:51 as we're building like new careers,
28:54 like new artists that are like coming into the world
28:56 for the first time,
28:57 and maybe this is like,
29:00 you might be able to clean this up
29:02 with more technical terminology,
29:03 but like from the start,
29:04 how do we build their data set
29:07 in a clean way from the ground up?
29:08 'Cause it's gonna be pretty hard to go,
29:10 let's say Bruce Springsteen was like,
29:11 yeah, I wanna like organize all my stuff.
29:14 That's gonna take a while, right?
29:16 Whereas if we all started a band this afternoon,
29:18 we could like from the beginning,
29:20 put together a plan for how we're gonna do all this stuff.
29:23 - I'll answer that.
29:23 'Cause from our perspective,
29:24 you gotta think about it when you start.
29:26 You're saying it right.
29:27 So everything you do, think about,
29:29 all right, we're gonna do that.
29:30 Where's the data coming from?
29:31 Where's it going?
29:32 Not even what are we gonna do with it?
29:33 Just where's it going?
29:34 How are we collecting it?
29:35 How are we storing it?
29:37 Let's put it into a tool like segments.
29:38 So we've got it.
29:39 So then when we wanna act on it,
29:41 when we are big enough to act on it,
29:42 to actually monetize it,
29:44 I know probably naughty word,
29:45 but monetize it,
29:47 then it's available.
29:48 But exactly, if you're Bruce Springsteen now,
29:51 and you didn't even think about data that many years ago.
29:54 - Yeah, it's a big job.
29:56 - I think it, oh, sorry.
29:58 I think it also starts with the why.
30:00 If I was starting this from the ground up,
30:02 it's not like how do I grab the data
30:04 and put it to good uses.
30:05 Understanding what the objective is.
30:07 What's the overarching objective
30:09 if you're an artist or a label,
30:11 and you're sitting on a lot of data?
30:14 If it's I want to create great experiences
30:17 that my fans like,
30:18 what is the why behind that?
30:20 The why might be because I've got a gig coming up,
30:23 and I wanna sell out the stadium.
30:25 What's the why behind that?
30:27 It could be because we need to generate X amount
30:30 in revenue.
30:31 That's the why.
30:32 So understanding the overarching objectives
30:34 and then building a strategy around that
30:36 before you start determining what data to collect
30:39 and how to activate that data is important.
30:42 - Don't you love a panel where people challenge each other?
30:44 So I'm gonna challenge that.
30:45 (laughing)
30:47 My problem with that is that
30:48 when you're starting out as an artist,
30:49 you don't know your why,
30:51 but you got data.
30:52 So my point is collect it.
30:54 Don't forget about it.
30:55 And organize it in a tool-like segment.
30:57 Without, 'cause they may say,
30:58 well, I don't have a why,
30:59 so I'm not gonna collect it.
31:00 - But then I speak to some startups who are like,
31:02 well, with all of the government regulations and privacy,
31:07 I don't wanna collect a lot of data
31:10 because it exposes me.
31:11 And I don't wanna face fines or breaches.
31:13 So it's almost like the strategy's important
31:16 because you actually need to understand the why
31:18 to then determine what data you need to collect
31:20 and only collect the data that you need
31:22 instead of everything is what I would say.
31:24 - And there's maybe a middle ground here.
31:25 There was like that--
31:25 - I like the debate.
31:26 I think it started as an article
31:29 and it turned into a book, I think,
31:30 like the 1,000 True Fans concept.
31:34 And so 1,000 True Fans is the idea of,
31:37 I think 1,000 fans spending $100 equals,
31:42 does that equal a million?
31:46 What do you need to do with 1,000 times 1,000?
31:48 Okay, 1,000,000 is a million.
31:49 So even 1,000 times 100 is 100,000.
31:53 Yeah, that's right.
31:54 (audience laughing)
31:55 I'm not a maths guy.
31:56 That's a lot of money.
31:59 Like if you're talking about like a new artist
32:02 that is trying to build a career,
32:06 that's like a goal, potentially.
32:07 - You quit your job number.
32:08 - Yeah, and if you could organise your data
32:13 around optimising for that audience,
32:16 that is like a good place to start.
32:19 And I'm mindful of like,
32:20 'cause we do talk about monetising and all that sort of stuff
32:22 like the music industry is, it's a business,
32:25 but at the same time, we are working with art.
32:27 So that is like something that's very important
32:30 and a very key nuance.
32:31 But ultimately, if we can get 1,000 True Fans,
32:34 that is how we have a business
32:36 and how we can build a career from there.
32:38 - Can I, I wanna give an observation
32:39 that the one thing that artists are most terrified of
32:43 and most sensitive to is spamming
32:44 and advertising their audience.
32:46 They don't wanna post too much.
32:48 They don't wanna do,
32:50 they don't wanna send too many emails
32:51 and they're so worried about looking
32:53 like a commercial product.
32:55 In a strange twist,
32:58 being really focused on data,
33:00 being really focused on segmentation,
33:02 being really focused on personalisation
33:04 is the antithesis of spam.
33:06 You are actually only sending messages to people
33:09 that wanna hear the message
33:10 and you're not sending it to anyone else.
33:12 And so I think if artists can think about it in that way,
33:16 they will say that it is pro-art
33:18 and not commercial, you're not selling out,
33:21 you're not commercialising yourself.
33:23 - And I've got a great example of that,
33:24 but not from the music industry.
33:25 This is from the kind of restaurant industry.
33:27 Domino's is a segment customer of ours
33:30 and they, I like that brand
33:32 because they frequently innovate and disrupt themselves.
33:36 They've got restaurants, they've got a website,
33:38 they've got app, they've got CRM.
33:40 When they came to us, they had data live in everywhere
33:42 and they wanted to understand each of their diners
33:46 or people that purchase pizzas.
33:47 And so we helped them collect their data,
33:50 unify the data into a single profile
33:53 and they were able to analyse their data
33:55 to do things like understand
33:57 which customer only buys on a Friday
33:59 so that they only serve them promotions
34:02 and offers on Fridays.
34:04 So reducing the spam, like you said,
34:06 and just giving them relevant content when they need it.
34:10 And doing strategies like that,
34:12 personalising the message to suit an individual
34:15 based on the data they know about them,
34:17 they were able to reduce their cost per acquisition cost
34:20 by 65% and boost purchases, return purchases.
34:25 So I think that's really powerful
34:26 when you use data in the right way,
34:28 it can actually help in not only giving a customer
34:31 a better experience,
34:32 but driving business results that matter.
34:35 - I'm gonna wrap it up.
34:36 Any last words for anyone?
34:37 Any last questions?
34:38 - That went fast.
34:40 - Time flies when you're having fun.
34:41 What I will say is I feel very lucky
34:44 that the track record of the people on this panel
34:46 is just, it speaks for itself.
34:49 They're incredible operators, each and every one of them,
34:51 incredibly successful, big brains.
34:54 I'm very lucky to be on a stage with them.
34:56 I hope you guys have learned as much as I've learned.
34:58 Everybody give them a big round of applause.
35:00 (audience applauding)
35:03 (audience applauding)