Joe Haggerty is joined by The New England Hockey Journal's Evan Marinofksy to discuss the impact of even more rookies on the Bruins roster. Mason Lohrei and John Beecher got their first NHL goals in Dallas, Joe and Evan talk about the possibility of Lohrei staying at the NHL level and where he can stand to improve. Also, could the Bruins be in talks about trading Linus Ullmark?
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00:00:00 The bottom line is he's playing so well that I think it is kicking up people talking about,
00:00:05 is now the time to trade Linus Allmark? And I saw somebody threw out Linus Allmark to Edmonton for
00:00:12 Ryan Nugent Hopkins, which is I think going to be the trade rumor du jour that we're going to hear
00:00:17 all year long now that Mark Keifle has signed a big contract extension.
00:00:22 The hot stove is cooking, Hags.
00:00:24 Yes.
00:00:24 But like,
00:00:25 welcome to another edition of the Pucks with Hags podcast. As always, I'm your host,
00:00:34 Joe Hagerty. You can find my work at joehagerty.substack.com. If you join with a premium
00:00:41 membership, you will get all of my articles sent directly to your inbox via email, and you can read
00:00:46 them all beginning to end. Even if you just sign up for the free portion of the newsletter, you
00:00:51 will get everything sent to you, but a lot of the stuff you will not be able to read. So sign up for
00:00:56 that premium membership. Also, you can check out my stuff at Boston Sports Journal. After every game,
00:01:01 I'm doing what I like to call and what Rob Bradford used to call a golem. It's a gamer slash
00:01:06 column after the games that kind of gives a take on what I saw during the game analysis, all that
00:01:12 stuff. Thank you very much this week to Evan Marinoski right above me here. He's from the New
00:01:17 England Hockey Journal. He's going to join us and talk some Bruins, also some other stuff around the
00:01:23 New England hockey scene. He covers it all for the New England Hockey Journal, so he's a great person
00:01:27 to have on. Before we get to the hockey though, I would like to really quick mention my sponsors.
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00:01:49 Finally, the San Jose Sharks, God bless them, got a win. So now they're, thank God for Mike Greer,
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00:02:48 Now let's get on with the hockey. Evan, let's just right off the hop, Mason Lowry, should he play
00:02:54 another game in the AHL for Providence? He's been pretty impressive as far as I've been concerned
00:02:59 since he came up, scored a goal in his last game along with Johnny Beecher. It was a real statement
00:03:04 again, which we've seen a bunch this season that the kids are doing extremely well
00:03:09 for this Bruins team and perhaps their draft and development pipeline was way more maligned by
00:03:14 places like the athletic than it should have been based on what we've seen development wise with a
00:03:19 lot of the young kids this season. Should Mason Lowry just stick around and they figure out a way
00:03:24 to make it work based on what we've seen? It's interesting. I was sort of conflicted after
00:03:30 Monday night's game against the stars. It's weird when they play Mondays, I'm not used to it like
00:03:36 when they usually play Tuesdays. It's interesting. The offensive productions there. And I've liked
00:03:40 what I've seen offensively, just defensively. I think there's been, he's been, he's struggled
00:03:45 at times, against Detroit. I know he got benched there at the end against the DA against the stars,
00:03:51 which I, again, I get, I know a lot of people like, Oh, he's, you know, Monty's just like
00:03:57 Cassidy. And it's like, if you're a younger player and you make a mistake towards the end
00:04:01 of a game against a good team, like that's going to happen. That doesn't really matter who the
00:04:06 coach is. Yeah. I'm not even sure that call that benching. I'd call that shortening the bench and
00:04:10 going with players that, you know, you have confidence in and whatever, like he's playing,
00:04:15 I think he's played more than 20 minutes in every single game that he's played since he'd come up.
00:04:18 So you're not really sitting on the bench that much. If you're a defenseman, if you're getting
00:04:22 over 20 minutes a night at the end, no, no. I, so the interesting thing with low ride is like,
00:04:28 and this, you know, my feeling on him coming out of training camp was like, you know, it's good.
00:04:33 He's going to Providence, get used to the defensive systems, get used to structure,
00:04:37 all those things. So I think, you know, to me, like this is such a half-hearted answer.
00:04:44 The jury's still out, you know, on whether or not he should go back. You know, I, again,
00:04:49 I liked what I've seen offensively. He's assertive. He shoots the puck from the point,
00:04:53 you know, like he's, I think he already has more points than, than Hampus Lindholm this year,
00:04:57 just off the top of my head, or at least it's similar, but it's just that defensive side.
00:05:04 I mean, the other thing is like when, when everybody's healthy again, right now,
00:05:07 Grizzuk won't be healthy, you know, be back until the end of November at the earliest,
00:05:11 you know, is it worth keeping him around to be a third pairing defenseman up here? I think that's
00:05:17 sort of the question. I know a lot of people are very quick to want to jump to ship Grizzuk out
00:05:22 of town or forward out of town, but I just, to me, I think like the worst, if he went back to
00:05:29 Providence, if, if the kind of the inconsistent play in his own zone continues again, he's a
00:05:35 younger defenseman in the NHL who was a forward like four years ago. So I, you know, I don't
00:05:41 think, I don't think it's a bad thing if he does, but again, if he lights the world on fire in these
00:05:46 next couple of games, then that's sort of put to bed, but just through three games that I've seen,
00:05:51 I'm sort of still wanting to see a little more out of the defensive zone.
00:05:55 I mean, look from what I've seen, like, obviously there's going to be growing pains with a player
00:06:00 that's 22 years old. That's, you know, played like what, 10, 15 HL games from Ohio state,
00:06:08 even including last year. Right. That's what I mean. There's obviously going to be things that
00:06:12 he's going to have to work on at the NHL level. There's obviously things where he's going to get
00:06:17 exploited by more experienced players. And there's going to be times in his D zone for sure.
00:06:23 Cause he's not known as, you know, a stay at home defense, but that's not what he does best. Like
00:06:28 I think throughout his career, there's always going to be a balance between trying to be
00:06:32 serviceable and, you know, good enough defensively while also shining the light on his puck moving
00:06:38 skills, his ability to, you know, be assertive offensively and to really make your spots.
00:06:43 Yeah. So like, you know, and I think obviously he's focused a lot from everything I've ever
00:06:48 talked to him and in the coaches, the focus has been on exactly that, picking his spots,
00:06:53 making sure fundamentally he's sound and he's good as a two-way defenseman before he really,
00:06:59 you know, just like, let's everything go offensively and really like, you know,
00:07:04 gets really aggressive. Like he wants to, as far as moving the puck and looking for offense, but
00:07:09 bottom line, they beat the Dallas stars, a very good team on the road.
00:07:13 The reason they lost the wings game, as far as I'm concerned, was the penalties they were taken.
00:07:18 And they lost their composure in that game. That wasn't about, you know, some of the stuff that
00:07:22 was happening defensively. I just felt like, you know, they, they sort of lost their, their focus
00:07:28 in the third period of that game and the second half of that game and lost their composure. And
00:07:31 that was a big reason that they were also due for regulation. Yes. And it was against a good,
00:07:36 it was against a good team. You know, it was against a good team that obviously like in the
00:07:42 second period when they were getting power plays, they were putting their power play unit out there
00:07:46 like they that's how they got back in the game. And yeah, it's, you're going to lose some of those,
00:07:51 but just the fact that they've been missing Charlie McAvoy, they've been missing Derek
00:07:55 Forborth, they've been missing Matt Grislik. And for the most part, you haven't noticed for the
00:08:00 most part, they've still won games. They've still been extremely competitive. There has not been
00:08:04 glaring mistakes that Mason Lowry has made, you know, defensively, or you can't really point to
00:08:10 a ton that has been happening and say, that's his fault. You know, there's a couple of things here
00:08:14 or there for sure, but like, it's been as good or better than it was before, you know, the train just
00:08:21 continues to roll with what they're doing. So like when I see that and I see the impact that he's
00:08:27 making more than others offensively, and it's basically what we saw in training camp. I thought
00:08:33 he was ready to go in training camp. He looked NHL ready to me in training camp. He continues to
00:08:38 look that way now. And I think if he gets sent down, it's because they can't make a trade
00:08:42 to open up a spot for him when everybody gets healthy. And when everything comes back, like,
00:08:47 I don't think he's going to be, even if everybody's healthy, I don't think he's a bottom six
00:08:53 defenseman, bottom pairing defenseman in Boston. I think if everybody comes back healthy, he's
00:08:58 going to be a top four defenseman and somebody else is going to slide down to the bottom pairing.
00:09:02 Like I don't, I just need to see, I just need to see a little more, you know, again, to, to make
00:09:08 that. Cause like, I agree, like there is a spot for him in that top four. If he continues to
00:09:14 produce offensively, you know, the defensive metrics also just haven't been amazing for him.
00:09:19 The last couple of games, you know, I would chance, are you going to get out the graphs?
00:09:24 Are you going to get out all the stuff that's going to make my eyes glaze over right now, Evan,
00:09:28 I'm going to put you to sleep. You're going to, it's going to be my podcast from now on. You're
00:09:32 going to fall asleep. But then, you know, the real, the reality is, and also the other thing
00:09:37 is like the goaltender, like against Dallas Swainman was outstanding. I don't remember
00:09:42 exactly the number of chances that happened when low ride was out there, but I know they were,
00:09:48 have, you know, pretty much outchanced fairly heavily. So again, like the goaltending has been
00:09:53 great. I think that's another thing that, you know, you haven't noticed the defenseman at times
00:09:58 because Swainman has been that good. I think one of the biggest stories of this start of the season
00:10:03 is this is the best Swainman has ever looked to me in the NHL. And we're going to, yes, we're
00:10:09 going to get back to that because that's another thing we're going to talk about, but you're right.
00:10:12 You're absolutely right. That the goaltending has been very strong and has erased a lot of the
00:10:19 mistakes that are being made, or, you know, some of the things that are going right in front of
00:10:22 them in the D zone there you're, you're a hundred percent correct about that. And that's sort of
00:10:27 factors into the calculation as well. But like, you know, when it comes to, when it comes to
00:10:33 defensive zone work, when it comes to, you know, that kind of stuff, like I'll, I'll let, I'll give
00:10:40 leeway and slack all day long to the fancy stats crew when it comes to offense, when it comes to
00:10:47 shots on net, when it comes to puck possession, when it comes to a lot of those other things,
00:10:51 like I salute you most of the time, they're throwing out stats that are telling me what
00:10:55 I'm already seeing. Like everybody's going to try it out. Fancy stats from the Dallas game.
00:10:59 Let's say the fourth line was great. Like, thanks. I could see that with my eyes. Like
00:11:04 I was obvious in that game that Oscar Steen and Johnny Beecher and who else and Denton Heinen,
00:11:11 thank you. We're very good in that game. Like, you know, that's the part that kills me about
00:11:16 the fancy stats. It's like when everybody's already saying the line is playing great,
00:11:20 I don't need to hear that. They outshot their counterparts like eight to one when they were
00:11:24 on the ice. Like it's obvious, like tell me something I'm not seeing with my eyes,
00:11:28 but in the defensive zone issues, when it comes to the defensive side of the puck,
00:11:34 I think good defensive players very often are just trashed by fancy stats. They, they look
00:11:42 bad in the fancy stats categories. They have fancy stats like pocket protector brigade that
00:11:47 are killing them. Like the Derek Forberts are the world that block shots to kill penalties,
00:11:51 that do a lot of those things. Those are never the darlings of that kind of stats and those kind of
00:11:56 numbers in that, in that crew. And so I don't put a lot of, I don't put a lot of credence as far as
00:12:03 I'm concerned in the defensive zone metrics. I still don't think they've been perfected or tell
00:12:07 the real story of what's going on. But that being said, I agree with you that, you know, there are
00:12:14 things he's going to have to learn. He's 22 years old. It's it, but I think it's a, I put it this
00:12:19 way. I think Mason Lowry is very quickly entering a realm. That's exactly where Matt Potter was in
00:12:27 training camp and through the first nine games of the season, where I think Mason Lowry is doing so
00:12:32 much to help this team win and is doing so much to make an impact that he's almost getting to the
00:12:38 point where he's saying to the Boston Bruins management, you can't send me down. You need me
00:12:42 here. Like I'm so good at what I do and I'm so good. And he's going to continue to spread his
00:12:48 wings. And I think eventually he's going to be the guy that's at the point quarterback in the
00:12:52 power play on the first power play in it. Cause I think he's much more of a natural power play
00:12:56 quarterback than any of the other defensemen they have with all due respect to McAvoy and Lindholm.
00:13:02 Like, I think he's going to continue to show that there is a place for him here,
00:13:05 that he can make an impact here and that he belongs here. And that competitively speaking,
00:13:10 the Bruins can't send them back in addition to him, like development wise. And I, you know,
00:13:15 that's what I see, but like, obviously you're right. That there are definitely things he's
00:13:19 going to have to learn and get better at. We already seeing him on that. And you saw him,
00:13:23 I think in Dallas a little bit on that second power play unit. Cause by God,
00:13:26 does that need a new quarterback? So I just, you know, it's interesting with the advanced stats,
00:13:32 cause you're right. Sometimes you're, you know, you're Brandon Carlos of the world,
00:13:35 you Derek Forberts can kind of get hammered with that. But there's, there's context. I mean,
00:13:40 I think people can look at, you know, the defensive zone start percentage that they have
00:13:44 and know that, Hey, you know, I like Forbert and Carlo are out there a lot, you know, in their own
00:13:48 zone, you know, they're going to get out chance. But I think with guys like Lowry where, you know,
00:13:53 again, in the past couple of games, Lowry has gotten a kind of even deployment throughout the
00:13:57 ice. So I don't think it's been, you know, overly in the offensive or defensive zone,
00:14:02 but I think in a perfect situation to start his career, everybody wasn't hurt, you know,
00:14:06 the majority of his starts would be either, you know, on the fly or in the offensive zone.
00:14:11 Yeah. But he's, he is having to adapt to playing with Brandon Carlo and being in the defensive
00:14:16 zone. So again, he's getting those tougher match-ups he's getting, you know, difficult
00:14:21 ice time. But I agree. And again, like, you know, in terms of helping them win, I mean, yeah,
00:14:27 scores a goal the other night assisted on, on whose goal was it against Toronto? He assisted on
00:14:33 someone's and then he almost scored one himself. Like, you know, Sam Sonoff was turned the other
00:14:40 way. So I, to me, like, I you're right. I think the production is there. I just wonder, cause the
00:14:48 Bruins love their well-rounded players, you know, they love their well-rounded guys. I wonder if,
00:14:54 you know, whenever the decision has to be made, you know, again, and if he continues to light up
00:14:59 the world points wise, you have no choice. You can't like, you need those, this team needs those
00:15:03 points. But I do wonder if at the end of a couple of games, they say, Hey, you know what guys come
00:15:10 back. Let's, you know, we're contending let's get him some more seasoning. I did think it was very
00:15:14 interesting though, that Montgomery mentioned that, that Mugen L said that was his best game.
00:15:20 Yes. Maple leaf, not all season, including the HL. So, you know, I think it's, you know,
00:15:26 it's going to depend on that and, and where he fits. But again, I said this on Bruins beat, I'm,
00:15:32 I'm not ready to trade a defenseman yet. I'm not. Cause I think you're good. You're seeing it now.
00:15:37 Look at the injuries that are piling up. Like I think you're going to need depth and the tough
00:15:42 part. And I think you and I've said this before, for Britain, Griswick bring different things.
00:15:46 You there's not the same defenseman. You can trade one, like one's a penalty killing shot,
00:15:51 blocking, you know, shut down guy. The other is a puck moving a great five on five defenseman.
00:15:57 It's just kind of what you prefer. So yeah, but I agree. I mean, low-rise definitely trending up.
00:16:03 Yeah. And I, you know, like, this is why, and I've been pretty consistent on this. I think if
00:16:09 the defenseman does get traded to make room for Mason low-rise, I don't think it's Derek for
00:16:13 board because I think he brings a completely different skill set to the table than Mason
00:16:18 low-rise. Like he's not, you're not going to trade away. You're not going to trade away
00:16:22 your penalty killing shot, blocking, you know, mean SOB in front of the net that you're going
00:16:27 to need. Like when the, when things get nasty in the playoffs to make room for Mason low-rise
00:16:34 Matt Griswick is the guy that's going to get traded. If, and when they decide Mason low-rise
00:16:39 ready and they need to move a defenseman. And I think it's just as simple as one guy is six
00:16:45 foot four, 215 pounds. And one guy is back 175 pounds. And that's what it comes down to is
00:16:52 like, even if a Mason low-rise learning defensively, it still is going to make the
00:16:58 Bruins a much more formidable team and better team in the D zone. If they have a guy that's that big
00:17:03 in the D zone in front of the net battling, instead of a guy that is getting overpowered
00:17:08 physically when he has to play in front of the net as Matt Griswick does. And that's that
00:17:12 just, just reality as much as I love Matt Griswick as a person and a player. Like, I think that's
00:17:17 what it's as simple as that when it comes down to it is they want six foot two, 210, 20 pounds
00:17:23 across the board for all their defensemen. Just like every team that they play in the playoffs,
00:17:27 when they have a hard time getting to the front of the net. That's exactly it. I mean, you know,
00:17:31 you look at, it's a copycat league. You look at the night, you look at the lightning, you look
00:17:34 at these teams with these huge defensemen and you look at the Bruins, like if low-rise does fit,
00:17:39 right. And let's say low-rise long-term is either with McAvoy or Carlo low-rise six,
00:17:44 four McAvoy six, one, but he's, you know, he's, he's thick and he's strong.
00:17:48 And you look at Lindholm who's like six, four and Carlo who's six, four and four,
00:17:52 four to six, like all these guys are big and, you know, and, and, and Shattenkirk's five 11.
00:17:57 So, I mean, again, that's not tall, but that's not small either. So I, you know, I do wonder
00:18:05 there, my only thing with trading Griswold, cause I agree if low-rise pans out, you know,
00:18:09 yeah. Griswold does become expendable. I just wonder what the value is. Like, I don't want
00:18:13 to dump Griswold for nothing. I think you need to get something for him. You'd have to get assets.
00:18:20 And like, it's, it, it, and that is a whole different conversation about, like, are you
00:18:24 trying to get a player that's going to help you now because you feel like you need another scoring
00:18:28 option in your top six? Do you trade him for some of the future assets that you've traded away?
00:18:35 Draft picks, prospects, et cetera. I think that's the move. I think it is too.
00:18:41 Yeah. I think it is too, especially with their salary cap situation. I honestly,
00:18:45 I like what they have for the, for a team right now. I just think that's the identity of this
00:18:50 team this year. And I don't think adding one more forward is going to radically change.
00:18:56 The forwards, they're going to be able to get with whatever move they're going to make.
00:18:59 It's not going to radically change their offense where they're just going to be blowing teams away.
00:19:03 I think this is a team that's going to be white knuckling it in the third period all year with
00:19:07 one goal leads to go leads. Like we've seen all along. They just don't have enough offense to
00:19:12 gain separation against good teams and even not so good teams. Like they just don't pile up big
00:19:17 leads in the third period and pull away from the team. And that wins in the playoffs. It does,
00:19:22 but it's a stressful way to go through an 82 game, regular season playing that way.
00:19:26 Mentally and physically, it puts a toll on a team to have to win like that all the time,
00:19:32 but that's just who they are. It's going to be interesting to see how they respond to that over
00:19:35 the course of the season. All right. Two things. This was a tweet from a butcher grass, like,
00:19:43 I don't know, within the last week, I'd be surprised if Mason low ride played another
00:19:47 game in the HL and the Bruins don't make a trade soon with one of these teams that needs a demon
00:19:52 first NHL goal for low ride. Okay. He, he tweeted that during the Dallas game and one quick aside
00:19:57 or two quick asides. We mentioned Brandon Carlo a couple of times. I think he's been phenomenal
00:20:03 in this season, killing plays, killing penalties, playing strong, being a little nastier around the
00:20:11 net, you know, moving the puck adequately, certainly stepping up to shoot pucks on net.
00:20:16 And, you know, he's made a couple of plays offensively. Oh, that was the play. He made a play
00:20:21 low ride, made the play where he found Carlo coming down the sideboards.
00:20:25 And then Carlo passed it to, I forget who it was that scored, but he made a nice past
00:20:30 his soccer that scored. That was just a great play all around by both of those guys. And it
00:20:34 highlighted how much it was kind of developed into somebody that can do make plays like that as well.
00:20:41 When he's, when he's put in that position. So like that was something really promising to see.
00:20:48 And the other thing was, and he's been, by the way, he's been so good in his own end.
00:20:52 Like I, to me, like, this is what you've sort of been waiting for or not waiting. I mean,
00:20:57 it's been there in the past couple of years, but I think there's been inconsistent play at times
00:21:01 from him. But I mean, the fact that he's turned into someone that is very worth the money so far
00:21:08 and a good shutdown defenseman who can chip in offensively and make smart puck plays,
00:21:13 and you can rely on him pretty much in any situation other than the power play.
00:21:17 Like to me, I think that's he like Lindholm has been fine. I think there are times Lindholm tries
00:21:24 to do too much, which kind of screws him over. Carlo to me has really embraced being a simple
00:21:30 defenseman who makes good, smart plays. And that's, what's going to make him a, you know,
00:21:36 one of the better shutdown guys in the league is make smart plays. And that's one thing that you
00:21:41 see this at the youth level. Like you tell kids all the time, you don't need to dangle.
00:21:45 You don't need to, you know, don't hold onto the puck an extra second, you know,
00:21:48 make smart plays and good things will happen. And I think Carlos,
00:21:53 Especially when those kids are coming out of the D zone right around their own blue line.
00:21:57 Yes. I see smart play.
00:22:00 Just make the smart play, get the puck out of the zone, relieve the pressure and then fight the
00:22:04 battle in the neutral zone. And like, you know, and you're right. I think what it comes down to
00:22:08 with Carlo is he's made peace with like who he is and, and learned to maximize his strengths.
00:22:15 And he knows exactly who he is as a player and what he can do and kind of what he can't do. And
00:22:20 he's sort of found his game, his best game while knowing that the other part of that, I wanted
00:22:27 observation from that game was Patra had, I think one of his worst, certainly one of his quietest
00:22:34 games while Beecher and Lowry stepped up and, you know, produced offensively and made things happen.
00:22:41 And, you know, this is the peaks and valleys that we're going to see from a 19 year old kid in the
00:22:45 NHL where it's not going to be highlight real stuff every single night. And that was one of
00:22:49 those games where I just didn't notice him that much. And I think he ended up without a shot on
00:22:54 net when it was all said and done. Yeah, I agree with you. I think there's going to be, you know,
00:22:58 you're going to see it. I think you saw it. I think it was the San Jose game, which is funny
00:23:01 to think back now that team just won their first game on Tuesday night. I was really rooting. I was
00:23:06 really rooting for them to lose last night and then to beat Edmonton on Thursday and watch the
00:23:11 hell storm that would come from that. But you know, that's a young guy, 19 years old. Like you're
00:23:17 going to have some games where you don't notice them. You're going to have games where you do
00:23:20 notice them. And I think that's the case for a lot of these younger players, but I think especially
00:23:24 posture because he is that young and he's in that big of a role where they're going to be games that
00:23:30 you don't notice him as much. And that's kind of, as you said, the peaks and valleys, you got to
00:23:34 deal with it with, with a younger player. It's unfortunate, but you know, I think it happens
00:23:39 to everybody. So I'm not, I didn't read too much into that. I thought when you were saying
00:23:43 Bucci Gras, I thought you were going to mention the, that he kind of started the wheels on the
00:23:47 old mark thing. Well, let's see, that's what we're going into next is I couldn't find the tweet,
00:23:53 but it was a ridiculous trade that he threw out there with like seven players. That's never going
00:23:59 to happen. Yeah. Never. Yeah. It's never going to happen. Uh, Patra was going to Edmonton. There
00:24:05 was all kinds of crazy in that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Score early this NFL season with FanDuel
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00:24:46 That does, um, open up the goaltending discussion, uh, Jeremy Swainman, six,
00:24:53 Oh, and Oh, uh, top five and, uh, goals against and save percentage in the NHL right now.
00:24:59 Um, definitely playing at another level, uh, has been all year. And I kind of called this,
00:25:05 uh, I want to pat myself in the, in the back of the shoulders, head, whatever. Um, I saw this
00:25:11 coming because you could see how dedicated he was in the summertime, sticking around in Boston,
00:25:17 working out at warrior, going to be you to work with the NHL guys Monday through Friday, he was
00:25:21 in warrior every day, like, you know, working on his, his, uh, training and, and, you know,
00:25:26 being in the best shape that he possibly could and really working hard with the Bruins performance
00:25:30 guys. Um, you know, Kevin Neal's and those boys, Tim Lavossier, all the guys with the Bruins
00:25:35 and you're seeing the results now. Like he, I think he wants to be the number one goalie of
00:25:42 the Boston Bruins. He wants to be the guy. He knows he wants to be the guy that gets the start
00:25:47 game. One of a playoff series. When they start the playoffs, he wants to be a guy that never
00:25:52 goes through something like the arbitration process. He had to go. I was just about to say
00:25:56 like arbitration and then not being picked over two straight playoff runs, you know,
00:26:02 letting all marks wheels fall off where they turn to him. I think it was huge. Yeah. And then,
00:26:07 you know, I, he should have played game five for that first round series against the Florida
00:26:11 Panthers. I still can't believe that he didn't, but dropping him into game seven of that series
00:26:15 was ridiculous. He needs to get the puck, get the nets to start the next playoff series because he
00:26:21 has not been able to do that the last couple of years where Linus has gotten those chances. But
00:26:25 the bottom line is he's playing so well that I think it is kicking up people talking about,
00:26:31 you know, D is now the time to trade Linus all Mark. Uh, and I saw somebody threw out
00:26:36 Linus all Mark to Edmonton for Ryan Nugent Hopkins, which is, I think, going to be the,
00:26:40 you know, trade, uh, the trade rumor du jour that we're going to hear all year long.
00:26:45 Has signed a, a big contract extension. The hot stove is cooking eggs. Yes. But like,
00:26:51 for me, even though the hot stove is cooking, even though the Bruins fans are getting invested,
00:26:56 this is good for our business, right. With the page views and everything else.
00:26:59 This is not podcast. Yes, that's true. That's true. This is not the time. This is not the
00:27:07 year. I think to trade a Bruins goaltender. I know Brandon bussy's playing really good in Providence.
00:27:12 I know that he looks like he's NHL ready and you kind of can, you know, come up with this
00:27:17 scenario in your head where busty comes up, Swain is ready to be the number one. That's your duo.
00:27:22 You trade a lean assault mark. You get the $5 million savings in salary cap space. Maybe you
00:27:27 trade them to a place where you can bring in a center like Ryan Nugent Hopkins that can be a top
00:27:31 six center for you. Uh, and it solves a lot of their problems this season, but I have a big time
00:27:38 issue with this Boston Bruins team that is built solely on defense and goaltending and like
00:27:45 situational offense is going to be playing one goal games all year in the third period. You need
00:27:51 two number one goalies right now with the way that they're playing and you need goalies that are
00:27:54 going to save you in the third period and make big saves and save you at points when your game is in
00:27:59 a lull. Like we've seen, that's the biggest strength of this team. As far as I'm concerned,
00:28:04 this year and last year's goaltending, that's why they fell on their faces partially in the
00:28:08 playoffs is because the goaltending went out the door. I don't think this season you can trade
00:28:12 Lena's all mark just based on the way your team is built and how reliant you are on excellent
00:28:17 goaltending every single night. You need them to be the Jennings trophy winners. Again, this season,
00:28:21 I'll mark and swim in just like last year. If you're going to be your best selves for this
00:28:26 Bruins team this year. Yeah, not now. No don't trade all mark. Now I I've seen this. Everyone's
00:28:32 going bananas about this on Twitter. Uh, and also for Dugan Hopkins, I know he was 104,
00:28:37 a 104 points last year. Up until then he was, you know, again, you know, 50 point guy, 40 point guy,
00:28:44 60 point guy. Like to me, first of all, I want to see, and I said this the other day, I want to see
00:28:50 Swainman and old mark rotate in the playoffs. I want to see them try it. I really do. I know
00:28:55 there's a lot of strict every other game rotation. I want to see them try it because clearly last year
00:29:00 was not the move. Uh, give it a shot. Like to me, you've got the goalies. You're the team that
00:29:07 should try it. You're everything is, is in place to do it. Try it. I want to see it happen. Um,
00:29:13 so that's my number one thing. Number two, you know, doing it now, I just doesn't make a lot
00:29:19 of sense to me. Also, if you were to, first of all, I'll say the thing, all mark has a modified,
00:29:26 no trade. What are the chances he accepts a trade to Edmonton? So low. I mean, my guess
00:29:34 would be zero. That would be my insider information, but that would be my guess.
00:29:37 Speaker 3 (1h 5m 50s): Yeah. I, the only way I think it's a better chance of Edmonton than it
00:29:42 might've been before. McDavid was there. Like, I think now, like, and obviously they're struggling
00:29:46 right now, but I think there's at least a legit chance to win a cup. You feel like with a team
00:29:50 like that, especially if you're a goalie that can come in and be a difference maker, but like, yeah,
00:29:56 based on his comments, based on what he said last year, where he kind of like slapped Buffalo around
00:30:00 talking about, you know, not wanting to go to the cold places or something like that.
00:30:04 Like maybe Edmonton's not on there for those reasons. And like, traditionally, it's probably
00:30:08 not going to be a lot of people's wishlist to where they're going to go, but exactly.
00:30:13 And for goalies, I think like defensively, they are not as good. They are still behind. So again,
00:30:19 your numbers are going to take a dip. You're going to face way more better shots. Um, so,
00:30:24 and again, I think that hurts him because again, he's coming up on a contract year after next
00:30:29 season. So like, I don't think you want to be, Hey, you're the best of the guy in Boston, but
00:30:33 you go to Edmonton and you're a middle of the road goalie. So we're not going to pay you anywhere
00:30:36 near Vesna money. Uh, and again, I don't know what he's going to get. That's a topic for another day,
00:30:41 but like, again, I don't know the likelihood of that. The other thing is Edmonton would be
00:30:45 negotiating from a place of complete desperation. I would hope if you were to trade all mark to
00:30:50 them, you would get a lot more than Nugent Hopkins, whether that's, you know, first
00:30:55 prospects. I don't know what their prospect pool looks like, but like, you would need more.
00:31:00 And the second, and the other thing is just like, if that move is to come,
00:31:03 you want the trade market to be a little bit better. And I think you'd want to do it in the
00:31:07 off season. And to me, we mentioned this earlier, Grizzlick for a pick. I want to see them get back
00:31:12 in the first round. If you're going to deal all mark, you need, you need picks. That's what to me,
00:31:19 that I think that's what you need. If you can get, if you can, if you can get a, an Elias Lindholm or
00:31:25 something awesome. Right. But if it's not such a sure thing like that, if you're going to trade
00:31:30 him, I'm talking off season hypotheticals. I'm like now is off the table for me. We're saying
00:31:35 hypothetically in the office, I would like picks. I think that's what the Bruins should want.
00:31:41 Cause again, you kind of want to, you know, it's a, not a bridge year, but you guys you're,
00:31:47 you're lucky that Patra low Ryan Beecher sort of panning out. You'd like to add to that. I
00:31:52 would think. Yeah. And I guess the argument for new deal, if you're to deal all mark,
00:31:57 I think the argument for new Hopkins, if you were to make a trade like that,
00:32:01 is that he signed for a pretty good number for a long period of time. So you'd be getting a
00:32:05 player that you would have for, for the long haul if you traded for him. But I am of the
00:32:11 agreement with you. I think if you're going to trade the reigning Vesna trophy winner,
00:32:16 and you're going to trade them someplace, if I'm Don Sweeney or the Bruins, I look at this team
00:32:21 this year and say, they're pretty good. Like I'm not as desperate now for a top six center as I
00:32:26 used to be. And I want to start recouping some of the assets that I've traded away over the last
00:32:31 couple of years, because we're not going for it this year. Like this is a year where, you know,
00:32:35 we make the playoffs, we've developed some young players. It's sort of like a transitional year.
00:32:41 And we don't need to go for broke this trade deadline. This is one where we should try to
00:32:45 recoup assets rather than trade them away and go for it like we did last year. And, you know,
00:32:51 start to make up for some of the pain that they still feel from last year with the first round
00:32:56 picks and the assets that they traded away only to lose in the first round with a loaded up team.
00:33:02 So I agree with you. I don't think this is the year to do it. I think if you're going to do it,
00:33:06 do it after the year. I think it's as much to do with the team that they have and the importance
00:33:09 of the goalies as it is, is anything else. So I, you know, I, I understand. And like, look,
00:33:15 I love the trade rumors. I love that people are getting the stove burning. That's all great, but
00:33:21 not something I would do. All right, let's switch gears.
00:33:25 - Omar Kregretsky one for one, Omar Kregretsky one for one. I'm doing that. That's what I'm doing.
00:33:31 - Is he going to come and be the head coach? We're going to get rid of Monty. It's going to be like
00:33:34 the coyotes redux where he's behind the bench.
00:33:37 - He's going to be a player coach. He's going to run the offense and play on the first power play.
00:33:41 - And do analysis in the studio TNT in between periods too. You can do it.
00:33:45 - They're going to mic him up during the game. I'll just do a constant commentary.
00:33:50 - And we can have biz on the fourth line too. I think that's where we get a hold of.
00:33:54 - Yeah.
00:33:54 - Why not? Bring him all back.
00:33:56 - Talk it can come in and be an assistant. I mean, I think it'll work out great.
00:33:59 - Yeah. Let's just take the entire, Anson Carter can come back for another run with the boss.
00:34:04 - Yeah. Oh my God.
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00:35:27 This is the Rink Live. It's a Twitter account, the Rink Live, and it's a website, the Rink Live.
00:35:38 It's an interesting story. I have Evan here. He does a lot of stuff throughout New England for the
00:35:44 youth high school prep ranks, in addition to watching the pro hockey and covering the pro
00:35:51 hockey. He's actually going to St. Sebastian's for a big cover story that they're doing on the
00:35:56 prep season. So I think he's the right person to have here to talk about this. The title of the
00:36:00 article is "Why Minnesota's Youth Hockey Model Keeps Numbers Rising and Growing the Gap with
00:36:05 Other States." Here's just a couple of graphs from it. When you look at the numbers between
00:36:12 Minnesota and Massachusetts, some of the numbers have flipped. In 1992-93 in Division I men's
00:36:17 hockey, there were 204 Division I players from Minnesota and 185 from Massachusetts. That's
00:36:22 pretty close to even. This season, Minnesota has 233 players and Massachusetts has 127.
00:36:30 So basically half. In 2002-03, there were 24 players from Minnesota and 40 from Massachusetts.
00:36:37 Then about 20 years later now, last season, there were 67 players from Minnesota and 32
00:36:43 from Massachusetts. Again, in the NHL. In the NHL, yes. So 67 from Minnesota, 32 from Massachusetts.
00:36:50 This is a quote here from, I forget who this is from, but "By having publicly owned ice arenas,
00:36:56 it allows youth hockey associations to keep costs low and much more affordable. It keeps more kids
00:37:00 in the game. The associations aren't bent on how do we make the most money. Their focus is on how
00:37:05 do we get more kids playing to the point where we need more ice now because we can't get enough ice.
00:37:10 If you look at Massachusetts and when their numbers were declining and our numbers were increasing,
00:37:14 their ice was shifting to privately owned rinks. Minnesota stayed public with more recruiting,
00:37:19 more outreach, more retention, and stuck by the community-based model. Massachusetts used to have
00:37:25 more of that. They have good people out there trying to get more kids involved in hockey.
00:37:28 This is not a knock on them, but this is an example of why we keep our ice rinks publicly owned
00:37:34 and the benefits that become of that. And if you're looking at overall numbers,
00:37:38 Minnesota had 49,884 registered 18 and under hockey players for last hockey season,
00:37:46 according to USA Hockey. Massachusetts was second with 41,000. So they were in the same ballpark.
00:37:52 They both had between 40 and 50,000 kids 18 and under, followed by New York with 36,000.
00:37:58 Minnesota and Massachusetts have the two most of any state in the US, according to USA Hockey.
00:38:07 But the gap between Minnesota and Massachusetts has widened in the last 10 years.
00:38:11 Last season, Minnesota had 8,812 more 12 and under players registered than Massachusetts.
00:38:17 In 2013-14, they had 45,000 compared to 43,000 for Massachusetts, which was only a difference
00:38:25 of 2,000 players. So they've significantly widened how many more players they have 18 and under. It
00:38:31 used to be a gap of 2,000 between Minnesota and Massachusetts. Now it's almost 10,000. It's 8,800
00:38:37 at this point. So I think there's a lot that goes into this. I think there was a lot of opinions
00:38:48 when I threw it on Twitter, the story, and people were reacting to it. Some of it was definitely
00:38:53 the traditional stuff that we've heard before. And some people think it's because there's too
00:38:58 much hockey in Massachusetts. There's too many summer tournament teams. There's not enough
00:39:02 practice time and too many games. Lots of different things. I honestly think part of it too,
00:39:10 and a big part of it, is there's too many leagues and too many teams, too many options in Massachusetts.
00:39:18 Too much. It's turned into the level of hockey is not good enough anywhere. It's not good enough
00:39:25 across the board for a lot of these players as far as competition goes because there's so many
00:39:30 leagues and so many teams. It's watered down. Less of it in Minnesota where I think the quality of
00:39:36 hockey at these age groups is higher because they're all playing against each other. Here
00:39:41 you've got good players playing in this league. You've got good players playing in this league.
00:39:44 They're not all playing together enough to really raise the level of hockey that they're playing,
00:39:49 raise the level of competition, which is going to raise their level of play and make them better
00:39:54 players. I think that's a lot of what's going on. It goes through to the high school level where
00:40:01 there's hockey academies, there's club hockey teams, there's split season midgets, there's
00:40:08 spring/summer teams. There's all kinds of stuff going on. There's prep school, obviously. There's
00:40:14 regular high school hockey. It's not like in Minnesota where everybody plays for their public
00:40:19 high school and again it turns into best against best and everybody's playing in a smaller league
00:40:25 where they're all playing against each other. In New England and Massachusetts, once again,
00:40:29 it's spread out all over the place where there's so many options and so many different places to go
00:40:33 that you don't get that sort of higher level of competition. I'm just curious to ask you what your
00:40:41 take is, what people that you've talked to think because I'm sure this is a conversation that goes
00:40:46 on with a lot of people that you talk to about why Massachusetts, while they're still the Will
00:40:52 Smiths of the world and there's still the players like the stud players on the Junior Eagles that
00:40:57 are going to be top 10 picks in the draft and that people are going to notice. You and I have
00:41:01 talked about the U14 team with Pando's kid and Freddie Meyer's kid and Jim Montgomery's kid and
00:41:06 all these other players on it that some of those guys are going to get drafted. There's no question
00:41:10 about it. That team's talent level is through the roof. What do you think the biggest reasons are
00:41:17 for what we've seen as far as the gap widening between Minnesota and Massachusetts? Well,
00:41:22 you have to subscribe to New England Hockey Journal to read it. No, I'm kidding. As you
00:41:26 were talking though, I was like this is an interesting story and it's one we're always
00:41:30 kind of working on thinking about. You hit it with, again, you look at Minnesota and those kids
00:41:39 go to their public high school and Minnesota high school hockey is on, it is a different
00:41:44 stratosphere than Massachusetts high school hockey. Or even perhaps, I mean, I think a lot of
00:41:51 those have the best kids. Kids go right out of Minnesota high school. It was more like
00:41:58 Massachusetts high school hockey was more like that when I was in high school. I went to high
00:42:01 school. That's exactly it. I went to high school with a kid, Derek Edgley, who was drafted by the
00:42:06 Blackhawks right out of Stoneham High School. The Catholic Memorial back then had multiple
00:42:12 NHL draft picks on their teams. St. John's. Matt Naun. Yeah, Matt Naun, exactly. All these teams
00:42:18 had stud players on their teams. So again, it goes back to here, the options have opened up.
00:42:24 We always say the options are a double-edged sword because on one end, yes, there's a lot of hockey
00:42:31 and there's a lot you can do. But on the other end of that, it's watered down. I talk to college
00:42:36 coaches who are out recruiting all the time and it's hard to find kids out here sometimes because
00:42:41 there's a good kid here, there's a good kid there. They never play each other.
00:42:44 And you also, again, you look at some of these select teams. When I was coming up,
00:42:49 select teams, you had to be really good to play on a select team. Now you've got a tier one,
00:42:55 you've got a tier two, you've got an elite, you've got a this, you've got a that. And I think what's
00:42:59 happened is it's great that kids have opportunity. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing, but
00:43:03 I think for the really good kids, it's really hard. And it's also hard as a parent, you're facing,
00:43:08 you're about to face this right now. What do you do? Because again, if you have aspirations to
00:43:15 play hockey farther than high school, what is the route to play college hockey? Is it prep? Is it
00:43:21 high school than an academy? Is it an academy? One thing, an interesting thing that you kind of
00:43:27 touched on is the academy model, right? It's gotten bigger. South Kent, Shattuck was the big
00:43:32 one in Minnesota. And then out here, South Kent, then all those guys went to Mount St. Charles.
00:43:38 And now you're seeing, you know, American hockey Academy, Boston, North American hockey Academy,
00:43:42 all this stuff. The typical thing with that is, and you do see some Minnesota kids come out here
00:43:49 when they're 13, 14, 15 to play against kids, their own age. So you see this with Mount Mount
00:43:56 is pretty good at recruiting kids from Minnesota because those high end kids, I think like Dylan
00:44:02 Dean's one Conrad Fondurk is one. There are more than I'm blanking on want to come out here and
00:44:07 play against kids, their own age. And so like Fondurk is with the national team. Dylan Dean is
00:44:13 with the Long Island goals, 15 team is very good. So like those things I think are very interesting
00:44:20 on the reverse side of it. But I, you know, I had someone tell me, and it was an interesting
00:44:24 observation that up until the age 14 year, Massachusetts dominate nationally. But once
00:44:30 the kids hit 14, it's sort of like, what do you do? Do you go to prep? Do you go to your local
00:44:36 high school? Do you go to a select? Do you go to an Academy? Do you leave the region? Cole
00:44:42 Eiserman didn't play hockey here. He went to Shattuck St. Mary's like, yeah. So I think there's
00:44:47 that dilemma for kids of where do I go? Where is that interesting story that I'm always kicking
00:44:52 around? Like what would Massachusetts high school hockey look like if the program didn't exist,
00:44:58 if the USHL and juniors didn't exist, if prep schools didn't exist and if private schools
00:45:04 of CN like didn't exist. And it's always an interesting thing to think about of like,
00:45:08 oh, you got coalized with new report high school and you've got, you know you know,
00:45:12 Will Smith last year with Arlington high school and Brian Leonard out at Pope Francis and that.
00:45:17 So, you know, but I think that's the ultimate reason. And the, the, the rink thing is interesting
00:45:22 because there are a lot of privately owned rinks that do factor into those things and kind of jack
00:45:26 the prices up. But one thing I've noticed is hockey families are more than willing to pay
00:45:31 those prices. So I don't think that's as big of a thing as is the, what do I do when my son or
00:45:38 daughter mainly son, because we're talking more along the boys end of things here. What do I do
00:45:42 when my son hits 14? So that's the biggest thing. And I think, you know, like you're about to see it
00:45:48 and, and parents are all, you know, it's, it's a hard decision on here because there's so much.
00:45:53 And as I said, it's a double-edged sword and that's why places like Minnesota are having the
00:45:58 success that they are because colleges fly out there without issue to go watch the Minnesota
00:46:05 state championship for high school, because, you know, along with the hair being really cool,
00:46:10 the kids are really freaking good. And like, they're all playing against each other. So I
00:46:15 think, you know, you hit it there and that's where really, I think in my own opinion, and,
00:46:19 you know, talking to a lot of people about this, that's what it is. Now that doesn't mean that
00:46:23 prep is bad or academy, like the hockey here is very good. It's, you know, that's not the issue.
00:46:28 And the other thing you have, and like, you know, this, this, this, I love talking about this stuff,
00:46:34 as you can tell, like with prep, the best kids leave early, whether it be, they leave after
00:46:41 their junior year for juniors, whether they leave after their sophomore year, like a Richard Gallant
00:46:46 for the program. You know, some like a Gavin Cornforth was with Thayer. He was with Tony
00:46:52 Amante at Thayer a couple of years ago. He left for the USHL after his freshman year,
00:46:57 like there are kids that are, and there's no set right answer, you know, like you spoke like Owen
00:47:02 Keefe, Jerry Keefe's son went from Malden Catholic to the USHL and committed to BU basically, I think
00:47:09 out of Malden Catholic, there's all these paths. There's no correct one. There's no wrong one,
00:47:14 but there's a lot of paths. And I think that kind of provides a dilemma for parents and players.
00:47:18 - No, it definitely does. And, you know, I think the point that they were making to a degree with
00:47:24 the story about the cost of privately owned rinks, the way it's become a money-making endeavor for
00:47:30 so many of these programs that own the rinks and have the teams that play in those rinks,
00:47:36 is that it begins to exclude kids that either can't afford it, or families that can't afford it,
00:47:44 or families that just don't try hockey because they think it's too expensive. And you lose out
00:47:49 on a whole wide swath of great athletes that could be great hockey players,
00:47:54 because they just never try the sport because it's deemed too expensive to play for like an elite
00:48:02 team in a pro segment in one of these rinks. And, you know, that's definitely part of the problem,
00:48:09 is I think, you know, and I try to tell, when I'm talking to people a lot, because when you deal
00:48:15 with the pros all the time, and I've, you know, you've been, I've been covering the NHL for like
00:48:19 20 plus years now, you realize when you're watching these kids when they're 10, 9, 10,
00:48:24 11 years old, you don't know anything about what these kids are going to do as hockey players
00:48:28 until they hit puberty, until they hit about 13, 14, until they start growing muscles and, you know,
00:48:34 getting bigger and stronger, and you see what they're going to be athletically. Like you can
00:48:38 be as elite as you want at 9 and 10 years old, it doesn't matter. Like that's the big dividing line,
00:48:43 is once you hit the teenage years, and you start, you know, going through like adolescence towards
00:48:48 adulthood, and that's when you start to see what they're going to look like as hockey players down
00:48:54 the road. And, you know, that's why I think sometimes like it's, it's a little crazy to go
00:48:59 too overboard with this stuff about it being anything more than fun, you know, playing with
00:49:03 your friends and having a good time at this age. Like the club tournament thing is great. I mean,
00:49:09 the club team thing is great if you're going into it for those reasons, if you're going into it to
00:49:12 have fun, be with your friends, play in a couple tournaments, maybe go to Lake Placid or something,
00:49:17 have a good time. Like, you know, that is the number one. That was my career. Exactly. That's
00:49:23 the number one priority. Like with number two being making sure you're in a place where
00:49:27 competitively, it's challenging to you. Like, I think that's also important to kids that age as
00:49:32 well, that they're like, at least playing on some team that is like pushing them to be the best that
00:49:38 they can be instead of like, you know, just dominating and being the best player wherever
00:49:42 they are. It's but you're better off being somewhere that's going to make you, you know,
00:49:45 push at that age a little bit, but you can't read anything on any players at that level. And
00:49:50 you need to call all this stuff elite, I think is kind of a joke at nine, 10 years old. Like,
00:49:54 they're just kids running around having fun that want to like, you know, go to McDonald's for a
00:49:58 Happy Meal after the game is they're eating Sour Patch kids are probably going on the ice like
00:50:02 we were all that age and it was fun. And like, exactly. That's one of the things you see with
00:50:06 these hockey families. And you sometimes you hear rumblings from different big families that produce
00:50:11 a lot of top, you know, college kids, you know, they were strict and they were hard on their kids
00:50:16 and that, you know, this it's like, you know, great. I'm glad they got to the highest level.
00:50:20 And that's awesome. But like, you know, is that the best thing for a kid to be like, you know,
00:50:25 treat hockey like a job from the age of nine? Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that
00:50:30 parents that I talked to are always struggling with is like, you know, and I did a lot of parents
00:50:35 like, Oh, my son or daughter did this team instead of this, this would have happened. I think it's so
00:50:40 tough because, you know, like I hit on earlier, just the options, there's so many things. It's
00:50:45 so easy to be like, Oh, if I, if I sent, you know, Johnny here, he would have done this or, you know,
00:50:50 and, and then you also hit on, I like the point of, you know, hockey is expensive. And it, it
00:50:56 takes out a lot of kids who are really good athletes who probably like hockey a lot and are
00:51:01 just like, yeah, it's not really feasible for my family. And so that's the tough part. And,
00:51:06 and I think, you know, it gets more expensive as you go along, hockey equipment becomes more
00:51:10 expensive, the teams become more expensive, the pressures of, Hey, you should also work out,
00:51:15 you should do this power skating clinic, you should do this other team. Not everybody can
00:51:19 afford that. And that's fine. But it's sad that this game can't adapt to that. And, you know,
00:51:26 be an option for people who can't afford three teams and two workouts. I mean, you know, you
00:51:32 talk to some of these prep school, kids and parents like, Oh, I worked out, you know, every morning
00:51:37 throughout the summer. And it's like, I was working at target every day, the summer high
00:51:41 school, like we had different upbringings. But, but, you know, I think it does come back to,
00:51:47 you know, it's, there's a lot of options in the area. And, you know, I think it's an ever changing
00:51:55 field. I, that's the other thing I think, you know, I'm curious to see what happens. I know a
00:52:00 couple of years ago, the big thing was like, our academy is going to take over for the prep model.
00:52:04 I think now we're seeing that probably not. I think it's a good alternative. There are some
00:52:11 academies that are, you know, better on the ice than prep schools, but like, you know, even a lot
00:52:16 of these fall tournaments, Mount St. Charles 18 team was losing to, you know club 18 teams in the
00:52:22 area. Like, you know, it happens whereas, but only the other thing I don't want to go on too long
00:52:27 about this, but like with a place like Mount, for instance, like the best teams at a place like
00:52:32 Mount or you know, some of these bigger academies are the 14 and 15 years, because once they,
00:52:39 those really elite kids hit 16, they either go to juniors, they go to the program. So when they get
00:52:44 16 and 18, those teams are fine, but they're not the high end James Hagen's at Mount kids of the
00:52:50 world at 14 and 15. So, but yeah, I mean, I, it's tough. I think it comes down to this hags.
00:52:58 Are you having fun? Yes. My dad used to ask me that. Are you just, are you having fun? Are you
00:53:02 enjoying it? Yup. Dad, I'm playing with my friends. It's a great time. All right, great. And
00:53:05 that was my goal was to play high school hockey at my high school. And I did, and that was awesome.
00:53:09 And I think, you know, most kids just want to play high school hockey with their buddies and, you
00:53:14 know, hit a couple of kids through the glass and like, that's what they want to do. And that's,
00:53:18 that's, that's hockey. That is what I get a game winning goal and get a picture of it or get a nice
00:53:23 video to throw on your Instagram, like something, or have your dad tweet your highlights and Bobby
00:53:27 or see them on Twitter. I think that's a valid way to lucky enough that that happens, but they're
00:53:32 valid. That's a valid thing to want. But yeah, I mean, I think that's important. And at some point
00:53:37 you're what, you know, as, as your son gets older and older, you're gonna have to start paying me as
00:53:42 an advisor. You're gonna, you're gonna keep throwing advice towards your way about prep schools.
00:53:46 But yeah, no, it's, it's an ever changing thing. It's an ever changing thing, but it's,
00:53:51 it's, it definitely is. And then the one other thing that, and we can delve into this quickly is
00:53:57 the summer tournament thing where there's like, they're playing in tournaments every single
00:54:03 weekend, elite tournaments, not, not delving into a playing other sports, which I have read scout.
00:54:11 I've ever talked to every hockey management person I've ever talked to. They want kids that play all
00:54:16 kinds of sports. They don't want to hear that a kid started specializing in hockey when he was 12
00:54:21 years old. They want kids that play cross baseball, soccer, you know, whatever that they play a bunch
00:54:26 of different sports that develop different muscles that develop different skills. Like,
00:54:31 you know, hockey scouts want, they love the kids that play baseball because you sit there and it's
00:54:38 a totally different exercise of thinking about what's going to happen before the play happens.
00:54:42 So much is reactive in hockey where you're just reacting to what's happening on the ice.
00:54:46 Whereas baseball, you're thinking about what am I going to do when the ball gets hit to me? You're
00:54:50 trying to out think the pitcher when you're up at the plate, it forces you to sort of think about
00:54:54 things when you're on the bench watching, what would I do in this situation where you might not
00:54:58 do that if you didn't play baseball. And there are different approaches to the sports that they like.
00:55:03 And eye coordination.
00:55:03 Those kind of things. Yes, absolutely. A hundred percent. Lacrosse is great for that
00:55:07 with the hands as far as hockey goes, but the there's less skill development in the summertime
00:55:13 and there's less of multi-sport athletes playing different sports because they're,
00:55:18 these kids are focused all year round on playing hockey and playing in these summer tournament
00:55:22 teams and that's filling up all of their time. And the belief was that that's a big part of
00:55:28 the problem as well, which I agree with. I think specializing, I've talked to some people that
00:55:33 they're around like 11 years old, 10 years old and hockey was the only sport they were playing
00:55:40 anymore and they weren't playing any other sports. And they were like,
00:55:43 See at that age, that's a waste. That's such a waste at that age. I think. And so this is the
00:55:48 other thing is that the three turns into burnout, right? It turns into a kid that doesn't want to
00:55:52 play hockey anymore when he's 14 or 15. You know, the three sport athlete, unfortunately is sort of
00:55:58 right now being phased out. And that's the tough, that's a really tough reality. Cause a lot of prep
00:56:03 schools want to continue that. The problem is as much as people say, they, you know, kids should
00:56:10 play three sports, kids who do focus. And I, I agree three, like you should not be specializing
00:56:16 before the age of 14 or 15 years old. Um, the problem is though that kids do start to specialize
00:56:22 and they are working at hockey more than other kids and they are sort of getting better. And
00:56:28 then those kids who play the sports say, you know what? I like hockey the most, you know,
00:56:31 Jimmy over there is much better than me. And he's, you know, doing training during the summer. So
00:56:35 I'm going to go do that. And that creates the chain, the domino effect, the chain reaction of
00:56:40 kids start to do that. And I know like in prep, there's always the question of, should they start
00:56:45 the season in October? Should they, you know, should the season go longer than March? Should
00:56:49 it be like a college schedule? Um, and the tough part is the kid who wants to play soccer, can't
00:56:54 play soccer. Um, and you know, the soccer team's pissed about that. And, you know, other schools
00:57:00 will see that and say, well, we're not going to play them because they're not taking these sports
00:57:04 seriously. And it becomes a whole big thing. And I think one thing you're seeing now in prep
00:57:08 is a lot of schools that aren't in the Boston area. So, you know, the, the kids like Sebs
00:57:13 doesn't have a team or Milton, but a lot of Kimball union, Holderness, a lot of these teams
00:57:19 cushing have teams in the fall that aren't, you know, cushing, but they're all those kids on the
00:57:25 team play for one team and compete in the fall. Now you don't practice every day, like you wouldn't
00:57:31 a prep season, but you do play together during the fall. And that's sort of a, kind of an,
00:57:37 not under the table, cause that makes it sound bad. It's completely legal and fine,
00:57:40 but it's sort of a way to get around or season. And it's, I think it's a good idea for those.
00:57:47 If you, if you're in high school and you're just playing hockey and you're at a Kimball union or
00:57:52 a cushing and you don't live near Boston and you need to find a way to, you know, you can't play
00:57:57 for a team with the junior Eagles or the river rats or whatever. I think that's a great thing.
00:58:02 Like I I'm totally for it, but I think that's a way that the three sport athlete, unfortunately,
00:58:06 these days is kind of gone. It's just like, kids don't go from prep to college anymore.
00:58:11 They go prep to juniors one or two years there and then go to college. So I, you know,
00:58:17 I'm always fascinated by, by you know, player development and how that happens. You know,
00:58:22 like Mason Laura, I was at Culver. I remember seeing Culver last year at a tournament around
00:58:26 here. And I was like, Oh shoot, like it's Laura's there like a couple of years ago. And it's,
00:58:30 you know, it's, it's interesting to see these kids and how they develop. And that's what I got.
00:58:35 That's why I love my job. Cause it's constantly, you know, seeing a kid at, you know, 14, 15,
00:58:39 being really good. It's like, I wonder what they're going to be like in a year or two
00:58:42 and kind of seeing it through. So yeah, it's a, it's cool, but yeah, I agree with you. It's it's,
00:58:48 it's, it's a wild world and there's no set right answers for anything.
00:58:53 No, there isn't. There's no linear path. There's no like one way there's that, that part is,
00:58:57 is as good as a piece of advice as you can give to anybody is just that there are so many different
00:59:03 ways that work for so many different kids that there's no one blueprint on how to do it. And it
00:59:08 comes down to, to fit and you know, when your kid starts to really develop and take off. And,
00:59:14 but like I said, the, the bottom, the tenants, the most important things, are they having fun
00:59:18 or what they, what their buddies and are they playing somewhere that's challenging for them
00:59:22 and whatever level that they're at. And as long as you have that I think that, that everything
00:59:27 else is gravy and everything else can be figured out. I think it's pretty simple. Like when it
00:59:31 comes to those things, as far as choosing, but it is interesting to see how the numbers are
00:59:35 bearing out and something is dividing Minnesota and Massachusetts at this point with the way that
00:59:39 they're developing players. So something from a macro level is, is not going right in Massachusetts
00:59:46 like it used to. And, you know, I think we're seeing like some of the radical, some of the
00:59:50 radically different changes as far as the model goes for how things are in Massachusetts and
00:59:55 Minnesota. Go ahead. One other thing I do want to hit on before we go, I'd love to see, cause
01:00:00 we always, you know, you and I talk Bruins mainly on these podcasts. I'd be curious to see if people
01:00:04 are really interested in these kinds of topics. Cause we clearly are both interested in that,
01:00:09 but I'd love to see if people are, cause I think, you know, you and I both have very
01:00:14 interesting, different perspectives on this. You're a parent, I cover it. So it's, it's a
01:00:18 different, it's a different thing. You know what we'll have to have on. I'm a good buddies with
01:00:22 John Missouri. Do you know him? The Arlington guy? Of course, of course I do.
01:00:28 I know he will come on a podcast anytime. And I've wanted him to come on here for a while. So
01:00:33 maybe next time we'll have him on and get his thoughts too on what he thinks is going right
01:00:38 or wrong. Because, you know, he's one of those guys that coaches an Arlington team that's very
01:00:44 good every year, puts together a good program, did the same thing in Winchester before that,
01:00:48 has connections all through the hockey world, you know, knows all kinds of people, has had
01:00:54 kids drafted that he's coached out of public high school hockey, you know, before. So, you know,
01:00:59 he's somebody that I think could bring some, and I think we'll do this again. Well, because I think
01:01:04 that people are interested in it for sure. The other thing, Diver's another one, cause Diver's
01:01:10 stuff all the time. One last thing, it's funny. I was at the USA hockey select 17 camp this past
01:01:18 summer in Buffalo. And it's interesting because, you know, those kids from Massachusetts that were
01:01:25 there were very good and they were, you know, the talent was pretty even. They were, you know,
01:01:29 they were solid. I don't think the team, new England ended up winning. So the new England region
01:01:33 at these events does not include Massachusetts because Massachusetts is big enough that they
01:01:37 have their own team. So the team, new England actually won the event. They won the whole
01:01:42 thing, which is crazy. But I do think that, you know, the other thing you have to consider aside
01:01:49 from Minnesota versus Massachusetts is there's more talent from other places, you know, like
01:01:54 at select 17 camp, the best kid there by far was Trevor Connolly, who is from California.
01:02:02 And I think you're, and he's going to be a first round pick most likely this year. But so those
01:02:08 you're getting more talent from other places. And I think that's another element of
01:02:14 Massachusetts guys. Aren't just being spoonfed into the NHL anymore or to the division hockey
01:02:19 you're getting commits, not just obviously from near Minnesota's and Massachusetts, but
01:02:23 from California and Florida and Georgia Mason low rise from Louisiana, like, which they told us 755
01:02:31 times on the broadcast the other night. Oh, he was born in Louisiana. I wouldn't necessarily say
01:02:34 he's from, but he's born in there. So it's good enough. Right. Supports my argument. So I'm going
01:02:39 to stick with it, but you know, they're coming from everywhere. And I think that's another,
01:02:44 and it's great that hockey's growing. You're seeing Austin Matthews, I think is from Arizona.
01:02:48 Yeah. So like, I think that's another thing where elite guys are coming from other places and,
01:02:54 you know, and I think that, you know, that's another factor. It's not the main thing,
01:02:59 but I think it's also something to consider. No, it definitely is. And we're going to wrap up.
01:03:04 I will say though, that you mentioned Mason low-rise and a place that he played. He also
01:03:08 played for the battery hockey Academy out in Ohio, which is one of the teams that Finn actually
01:03:14 played in a 6 PM summer invite over the summer when he played for top speed hockey. So like,
01:03:19 I thought that was interesting when I saw them send out a message with Mason low-rise in their
01:03:24 uniform the other day. So you're right. You know, like you don't know who you're going to come
01:03:27 across or where these kids are playing. They play all kinds of different places. And that was a good
01:03:31 program. That was actually a very good game to watch. So like, you know, they come from all over
01:03:37 and it's interesting to watch how they develop and where they come from. But I think we're all
01:03:42 in the vested interest of keeping Massachusetts hockey as strong as it possibly can be. So let's
01:03:47 keep asking these questions and keep trying to figure out what Minnesota is doing right. And
01:03:53 what we're not doing as well as we used to do in order to, you know, break out more college hockey
01:03:59 players, crank out more NHL draft picks, crank out more players that are high end elite level
01:04:03 than we're doing recently in the last few years. Evan, thank you very much for joining us. Evan
01:04:09 Marinovsky from New England Hockey Journal. He's going to go do his photo shoot at St. Sebastian's.
01:04:13 It should be fantastic for their cover story. Let's thank our sponsors, Factor Meals, head to
01:04:19 factor meals.com/hags50 and use code hags50 to get 50% off your first box and FanDuel sportsbook.
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01:04:43 Evan, thank you very much. We'll do this again and break down some Massachusetts hockey again
01:04:47 sometime in the near future. Everybody else out there, thanks for listening to the Pucks
01:04:51 with Hags podcast. We'll see you at the rink.