Special Program: Second electoral debate in Argentina 08-10

teleSUR English

Special program covering the second presidential debate of the presidential candidates in Argentina. teleSUR

Transcript

00:00:00 Hello, and welcome to Latin America Votes, a special show in which we will be following

00:00:14 live Argentina's second presidential debate.

00:00:17 My name is Belén de los Santos, and from the Telesur studios in Havana, Cuba, we will

00:00:22 be bringing you the latest news and analysis in the countdown towards the presidential

00:00:26 election that will take place in this southern country.

00:00:30 And to join me is our very own Luis Alberto Matos.

00:00:34 Welcome Luis.

00:00:35 Hi Belén, it's a pleasure to join you in this special program.

00:00:38 And yes, there's great expectation for what this debate brings.

00:00:42 The five candidates will see again face to face, but just seven days from the first debate

00:00:47 that was held last Sunday.

00:00:48 And on this occasion, the main topics are going to be around the line of security, labor

00:00:54 and production, housing, human developing, and environmental protection.

00:01:00 So there's great expectation following the high rating that the first debate had on television

00:01:04 on different medias.

00:01:05 So a pleasure to be in this program.

00:01:07 And greetings to everyone that is joining our signals on the different platforms.

00:01:11 And we go deeper in the analysis that this debate brings for the future of Argentina.

00:01:17 Exactly.

00:01:20 So we will be following live.

00:01:22 The debate in Argentina is just about to begin.

00:01:25 As you were saying, there is a lot of expectation.

00:01:30 Last week's debate had many, many important things, important points.

00:01:36 The biggest candidates are fighting for their role in the elections that will take place

00:01:43 on October 22nd.

00:01:44 And we will be joined by different specialists in this interview for us to continue seeing.

00:01:52 So now we will be looking at the debate that is about to begin.

00:01:58 Let's listen.

00:02:10 We're looking at the images coming live from Argentina.

00:02:27 We are going now to receive our first specialist, Tobias Belgrano, who is an analyst and will

00:02:35 join us in this first episode.

00:02:38 So Tobias, we are minutes away from the beginning of the debate, which is actually starting

00:02:43 now.

00:02:44 Can you hear me?

00:02:45 Welcome to Latin American Votes.

00:02:48 Thank you very much for having me and thanks to Telesul for the space.

00:02:56 What can you tell us about this debate?

00:02:58 We are minutes away from it starting.

00:03:00 What are our viewers expected to address in this important debate?

00:03:07 What are the key points we're looking for?

00:03:09 Well this debate, the second debate, will be having three axes of work.

00:03:14 The first axis will be security.

00:03:18 Work and production will be the second thematic space.

00:03:21 And the third space will be for human development, housing, and environment protection.

00:03:27 The three candidates, the Peronist candidate Sergio Massa and the Junto por el Cambio or

00:03:33 Macrist coalition Patricia Bullrich, are running behind the Libertarian candidate Javier Millet,

00:03:39 who runs the first place in the primary selections.

00:03:44 In this case, Sergio Massa, the Peronist candidate, is the second runner and right behind is Patricia

00:03:51 Bullrich.

00:03:52 The first debate was really a template and without a lot of sparks.

00:03:59 We can expect the second debate to be much more rougher and much more with more declarations

00:04:05 between the candidates because the polls are benefiting Javier Millet and Patricia Bullrich

00:04:12 that is running really behind, needs to show a little more muscle in this debate.

00:04:20 Exactly.

00:04:21 And the first topic to be addressed, as you were just saying, is security, an important

00:04:26 topic as we know that in Argentina, polls tell us that this is one of the most pressing

00:04:32 events, the most pressing issues that are under the Argentinians' considerations.

00:04:38 So this is one of the topics that we will be following.

00:04:42 Now let's go live to Argentina.

00:04:44 Let's see the images from the debate that's starting now.

00:04:52 We see the images as Javier Millet is starting to address this first topic.

00:05:09 Now we continue with Tobias Belgrano who is live here in this special edition of Latin

00:05:16 American Votes.

00:05:18 You were talking about security and how important this topic is to the Argentinians.

00:05:23 It's one of the hot topics in this second presidential debate.

00:05:27 Tobias, how do you think this topic can play an important role in the discussion leading

00:05:34 up to this first round of the presidential elections on October 22nd?

00:05:40 Well, security has been a key issue in this campaign, and especially before the previous

00:05:47 debate after the murder of a young child in the urban areas of Buenos Aires.

00:05:53 So it's a hot topic in this debate.

00:05:56 The three candidates can have something to show regarding this topic.

00:06:01 Sergio Maza, as former mayor of the Tigre County in Buenos Aires, had a really strong

00:06:10 administration within this topic, with excellent results in reducing insecurity in Tigre.

00:06:18 That was his district where he was working as a mayor.

00:06:22 Patricia Woolrich can also claim her knowledge regarding security during his period working

00:06:30 in the Ministry of Security in the government of Mauricio Macri as a national minister of

00:06:35 security.

00:06:36 So she will use strong this access to promote her candidacy.

00:06:44 And Javier Millet, regarding the lack of experience in this matter, he counts with his vice president,

00:06:54 Victoria Villarreal, that specializes in security and military affairs and has a strong interest

00:07:02 in using the military for internal security.

00:07:06 So probably this will going to be the three ways and the three strategies the candidates

00:07:14 will use to promote their knowledge and fight for their knowledge in this area.

00:07:22 Tobias, that was clear.

00:07:25 And now we go live to the debate in Argentina, and we will come back to you to continue this

00:07:29 analysis.

00:07:30 It's also important to pay attention to the rest of the provinces.

00:07:48 We need to preserve the prestige of this country, especially in the city of Buenos Aires.

00:07:56 We also are expecting the construction of the gasoline, which is necessary for a prosperous

00:08:14 country.

00:08:15 Good evening to everybody here.

00:08:22 First of all, thank you to those who last Sunday were listening to us.

00:08:29 I would also like to thank to those who from their homes are listening to us today.

00:08:39 I would also like to highlight the fact that today is a very important day.

00:08:47 After we gather here to talk about security, about the environment, about work, we're here

00:08:56 today to talk about how is going to be Argentina from now on.

00:09:05 I'm here to propose the things that Argentine people need.

00:09:16 And I know that we, together with the help of God, we will build a better country.

00:09:20 Good evening.

00:09:23 I would like to thank for the support that we receive in these days, which shows that

00:09:33 most of us are in favor of advancing the country.

00:09:47 We are here to overcome the situation we are facing right now.

00:09:56 We are not going to succumb until these bigger politics.

00:10:17 We will see today the progress of workers and social class.

00:10:40 We will proceed for the first point of the debate.

00:10:46 First of all, I would like to say that these topics have been already proposed.

00:10:55 And each candidate agreed to speak on each of these topics.

00:11:03 Now candidates will talk about how they will proceed, how they will act regarding these

00:11:08 topics.

00:11:09 It's also important to highlight that any intervention is going to be interrupted.

00:11:24 Each candidate has to wait for their turn to speak using the button that they have in

00:11:31 each podium, which means that they're ready to talk again.

00:11:39 Every intervention will be registered so we can analyze these discourses later.

00:11:50 These candidates are able to use this button five times during the debate.

00:12:02 The first topic that we're going to talk about is a very important topic.

00:12:05 We're going to talk about security with Patricia Boric.

00:12:14 You all know that I was always concerned about security and I have you in my heart.

00:12:26 We all know the situation that we're living today.

00:12:28 We know which party we have to defend.

00:12:34 So we, people are now concerned because they know that dangerous people are now on the

00:12:43 streets.

00:12:44 So that's one of the topics that we will address.

00:12:48 We will put criminals in jail.

00:12:51 It's also important to highlight that the guns will not be accessible to people.

00:13:02 Guns will be limited because these guns end mostly on hands of the criminals.

00:13:14 I will change the civil code, the penal code, so never more any criminal, murderer, rapist

00:13:25 who walks on the streets again.

00:13:33 Here in Argentina we're living the world upside down and it's time for us to change that.

00:13:46 That's why we need to defend the people.

00:13:51 We need to defend the people and the citizens of Argentina.

00:13:59 So in order to achieve this we need to change our security politics.

00:14:08 And criminals will finally be in jail so we can finally be safe.

00:14:17 We will now hear the words of the candidates who have already pressed the button.

00:14:32 We will first hear again those who are promoting hard hand on violence have already failed.

00:14:45 All these people who are against people accessing guns have already failed.

00:15:01 And also I would like to address the topic of minors and the modifications to this code.

00:15:10 To what age will be a person able to have access to this?

00:15:25 Last governments that we had have fought against crimes and against drugs.

00:15:40 We learned from those governments that we needed to change the law.

00:15:53 We believe that the armed forces of our country are able to protect our country with the hand

00:16:04 of the party in the government.

00:16:12 And also we could see that government is completely absent from this topic.

00:16:23 I would also like to talk about this topic, especially addressing the topic of guns.

00:16:35 My words have been misunderstood earlier so I will address this topic again.

00:16:44 We need to change this code because it's not possible that criminals are armed and the

00:16:49 people who are innocent are not.

00:17:00 We need to change the way that you're thinking.

00:17:05 Unless you don't change we're going to end up with a dictatorship.

00:17:14 I would like to talk about the truth.

00:17:18 We need to listen to data.

00:17:20 Data never lies.

00:17:23 This data has shown that as criminals leave prison violence has increased in the country.

00:17:45 I need our citizens to check on the internet this data.

00:17:52 The violence rate has diminished in our country thanks to Patricia Bulrich.

00:17:58 Each candidate will have now two minutes to talk about their proposals.

00:18:12 We need to fight violence by all means.

00:18:20 And in order to do this we need to change our criminal code.

00:18:29 We need to change this code because we are still living with a code that was created

00:18:34 by a dictatorship.

00:18:39 We need to fight against our narco-traffic and in order to do this we need the help of

00:18:45 the armed forces but the people can also help to solve this problem.

00:18:57 We need to involve every citizen in Argentina in this problem.

00:19:02 This is the only way to solve this problem.

00:19:11 We need to create a new armed force to address only these topics about narco-traffic, especially

00:19:23 in the capital but also in the rest of the provinces.

00:19:32 This is the only way that we can stop criminals from conducting their operations in national

00:19:37 territory.

00:19:43 We need to change this because the current criminal and penal code are in favour of criminals

00:19:51 and we need to change that in order to be safe.

00:19:59 We need to pay attention also to young people who are highly influenced by these criminals.

00:20:10 We will address now the topic of security.

00:20:16 I have the mission of transforming Argentina into a safe country.

00:20:22 This is something I will do since my first day as the President.

00:20:28 First of all, I think we need to analyse the prevention.

00:20:39 And in order to do this we need cameras, cell phones, satellites in each city of Argentina.

00:20:51 All of this financed by the government.

00:20:56 Secondly, we are going to address fight against crime.

00:21:06 In order to achieve this, we are going to have the support of the force and the force

00:21:11 of the country.

00:21:19 And this will allow us to work in corruption, narcotraffic and all kinds of kidnappings

00:21:29 and actions that are against the security of Argentina.

00:21:36 This will be in the hands of the armed corps of the government and also in the hands of

00:21:42 the citizens.

00:21:46 And lastly, we need also to pay attention to justice.

00:21:57 We cannot allow that adoption will take several years.

00:22:05 And any kind of political and internal process are taking lots of years and we need to address

00:22:12 that.

00:22:20 We will hear now Patricia Vourrich as she requests to speak now.

00:22:27 Four years ago, you cannot address to a government what was years ago.

00:22:41 You need to pay attention also to the fact that you were there during that time.

00:22:52 And you cannot address topics of corruption because you are aware of all the corruption

00:22:57 that occurred during this government.

00:23:04 You protect criminals, you protect corrupt politics and you cannot talk about corruption

00:23:11 when you were part of it.

00:23:20 I would like to tell you that this city became one of the safest cities in six years of our

00:23:30 country.

00:23:38 We control policemen and we have cameras on every corner of the country to keep our people

00:23:44 safe.

00:23:48 I'm not talking about false accusations.

00:23:55 And I know that I make mistakes, so that's the main reason why I respond.

00:24:13 The right has also always said that the left party doesn't like to talk about security.

00:24:26 What we need to pay attention here is to the fact that crimes are mostly committed to the

00:24:32 highest fears.

00:24:39 It's not possible for criminals to organize great forces since they don't have support

00:24:49 from some part of the government.

00:24:52 So that's why we need to analyze corruption and we need to analyze how the government

00:24:56 addresses this topic.

00:25:08 We had a law during Macri's government that we can say that this law pretty much provided

00:25:20 a paradise for criminals in our country.

00:25:28 That law allowed criminals to put drugs in and out of the country without anything happening

00:25:34 to them.

00:25:39 Talking about security problems individually will not solve any problem.

00:25:49 We need to not analyze this topic individually but to link this problem to government.

00:25:59 We need to provide sources of knowledge for young people in order to stop this from happening.

00:26:14 We will continue to talk about security.

00:26:25 The government takes care of security and justice.

00:26:32 And government has failed.

00:26:36 We understand that our country right now is suffering from violence and crime.

00:26:46 In the last 20 years, the government has caused pretty much a disaster to security in our

00:26:57 country.

00:26:58 This has as a consequence that criminals are treated like victims.

00:27:11 We have seen problems like this in other countries.

00:27:15 We saw this in New York.

00:27:24 We could pay attention to a certain article that addressed this topic.

00:27:39 And from this article, we can learn that in order to be safe, we cannot only rely on government

00:27:50 and armed forces.

00:27:54 Therefore, we propose to change a criminal and penal code.

00:28:11 And only by changing this code, we are going to see criminals paying for the crimes they

00:28:17 committed.

00:28:25 Miley, pay attention to that article you were talking about.

00:28:40 You need to pay attention.

00:28:46 You need to pay attention to the fact that guns cannot be on the hands of every citizen.

00:28:51 If we allow people to have guns, this is going to be a disaster.

00:28:56 It's going to be a very violent country, worse than we're living right now.

00:29:08 So you need to pay attention to those proposals you're making, because these were only allowed

00:29:15 criminals to have control in the country.

00:29:30 I haven't heard anyone talking about a direct problem that we have in the country, which

00:29:38 is not only a problem in major cities, but also in the rest of the provinces.

00:29:51 We need to pay attention to the fact that citizens can also help us choose all these

00:29:57 problems.

00:30:05 We need -- what we're doing right now and what we need to do is to pay attention to

00:30:09 the help that we can receive from our citizens.

00:30:23 I only like to talk about the topic that you were addressing.

00:30:34 And we were listening to the candidates address the first topic of this second presidential

00:30:39 debate, which corresponds to security.

00:30:43 We were saying before that this is a hot topic, as polls show that among the most pressing

00:30:47 issues that worry Argentines and might have a decisive role in this election.

00:30:52 Now we go back to Tobias Belgrano, political analyst that is joining us to comment the

00:30:57 debate.

00:30:58 Tobias, what do you think that stood out in this first round of interventions?

00:31:02 Well, especially what stood out was Mrs. Bulrich's rhetoric.

00:31:09 Comparing with the first debate, Patricia Bulrich had a poor participation in the first

00:31:15 debate.

00:31:16 So we are seeing her much more aggressive and much more attacking the other candidates.

00:31:28 Particularly against Sergio Massa, we had a corruption scandal here in Argentina regarding

00:31:32 a mayor, Martini Saurade, that was found in France in a billionaire yacht with a woman

00:31:39 spending a lot of money.

00:31:40 And it was a corruption scandal in the middle of the campaign.

00:31:46 Millet, particularly, we can also talk about his role as an outsider and his current attacks

00:31:54 against the political establishment that usually tends to use us as a discursive rhetoric weapon

00:32:04 against his opponents.

00:32:05 And also I would like to take into consideration the participation of Juan Echiareti, that

00:32:12 was really popular.

00:32:13 We didn't mention him at the beginning of the presentation of the candidates.

00:32:17 That he is the governor of Cordoba province.

00:32:21 And he got an interesting approach that hasn't been taken into consideration only by Miriam

00:32:26 Bregman, the leftist and the Workers' Party candidate.

00:32:31 Juan Echiareti said that insecurity has a root in social inequality, and that hasn't

00:32:39 been taken into consideration by the rest of the candidates.

00:32:43 Miriam Bregman attacked Patricia Woolrich's speech of hard hand against insecurity, and

00:32:55 also takes the speech of not using hard hand against insecurity, and that doesn't work.

00:33:06 She has used her rhetoric to say that strong hands against delinquency doesn't work in

00:33:12 Argentina.

00:33:13 And Massa, once again, as we said in the beginning, it's quite more elusive, but also attacked

00:33:21 Patricia Woolrich with the Millman case.

00:33:25 Millman is a collaborator of Patricia Woolrich that is suspected to have some level of participation

00:33:32 in Cristina Kirchner's murder attempt.

00:33:35 That's what the government is claiming against the Millman collaborator.

00:33:42 That's what Massa was referring when he attacked her on that, that he didn't--she didn't ask

00:33:49 for his resignation after this scandal and his suspicion, rather than Massa asking for

00:33:56 Insaurrale to renounce his candidacy and renounce his position as chief of staff of Buenos Aires

00:34:03 province.

00:34:05 And we find him defensive and elusive, but also defending his administration of security

00:34:12 in the Tigre county of Buenos Aires province.

00:34:18 It is definitely, as you were saying, an important spin, an interesting spin on the matter of

00:34:25 security, what you were saying, that Massa called out the case of Gerardo Millman, collaborator

00:34:31 of Patricia Woolrich, as a different way of understanding the topic of security.

00:34:36 The assassination attempt of Cristina Fernández de Kirchner had not been mentioned before

00:34:41 in this scenario, so that was an important thing to keep in mind.

00:34:45 And it makes sense also that this round of discussions was in turn of Patricia Woolrich,

00:34:53 which was of course the security minister of Mauricio Macri, last government administration.

00:35:00 So she was bound to have this key spot in this round of interventions.

00:35:06 Now we are going to go live to the debate as we continue seeing the candidates address

00:35:13 the following questions.

00:35:15 In the world of Gerardo, the women are discriminated for their salary.

00:35:25 We are going to start the obligation of the companies by the same homework, by the same

00:35:30 rule, by the same law of women and men.

00:35:35 I want also to talk about that we are going to remove the social isolation for new employment

00:35:42 and for the employment of young people, besides to incorporate the social programs.

00:35:49 Also we are going to have the system of tributary, and Ronaldo and Argentina, they have to make

00:35:58 the course because they only paid 150.

00:36:01 And lastly, I'm going to be clear about the program of development, energy, energy

00:36:10 minoring and all the things that we are going to lower the intention right now.

00:36:16 We are going to continue boosting because those are the reserve of Argentina.

00:36:20 Thank you, Sergio Maza, the work for periods of law to replicate any order, any order that

00:36:25 occurred, they were Miriam Bregman, Javier Millet, and Juan Soretti and Patricia Boric.

00:36:32 Therefore you have the word Miriam Bregman.

00:36:34 Thank you.

00:36:35 In this day, people are very desperate.

00:36:37 They live with a lot of uncertainty.

00:36:40 The minister has already signed with the IMF to sign after elections more rise in the oil,

00:36:49 less salary, less jubilation.

00:36:51 A nurse went to the hospital in the morning and on weekends, you have to make the results

00:36:59 in order to make some means.

00:37:02 And we always meet with a jubilee that is telling that it's going to say because it's

00:37:07 not enough.

00:37:08 I would like to ask the minister if he can leave aware of the 4000 pesos that he left

00:37:17 with bonuses included.

00:37:18 Thank you very much.

00:37:19 Thank you, Miriam Bregman.

00:37:20 You have the right, Javier Millet.

00:37:23 In the first place, I would like to point out the problem of construction.

00:37:31 We only talk about workers.

00:37:35 If you follow the capital with productivity, it's going to be very low.

00:37:44 If you do it with-- you have to be careful of what you measure.

00:37:52 But also you have to take into account that you have to battle the capital.

00:37:56 And there is a 20% of workers that are foreigners and then all are in the line of poverty.

00:38:01 And of course, there is not a reference towards production because production is falling apart

00:38:07 as a consequence of the mistakes.

00:38:09 Thank you, Javier Millet.

00:38:13 You have the word, Juan Escalante.

00:38:15 Sergio Massa is talking about production of deployments and he's the minister of inflation

00:38:23 of the 50-- 55 to 40.

00:38:26 The dollar is now in 900 pesos.

00:38:34 He's talking about changes, but the central bank is not the reserves.

00:38:41 What must be done-- what must be done is to help the people because they are suffering

00:38:49 the competencies and they cannot afford the products with the cost because the costs are

00:38:57 superior.

00:39:02 You have the word, Patricia.

00:39:06 I can't believe what you say.

00:39:10 There is a hyperinflation and you spent a lot of money in just one day.

00:39:17 There are a lot of people suffering from poverty from production.

00:39:21 We're costing-- and we have a lot of people that are to make a line.

00:39:28 And this is the-- this is the Argentina that you live for production with both face.

00:39:34 You are-- you are telling that you are going to solve the problem and you haven't done

00:39:41 anything.

00:39:42 It's only the destruction of the apparatus and you-- instead of solving the problem,

00:39:48 you are-- you are messing it up.

00:39:52 We have to change that.

00:39:53 Thank you, Patricia.

00:39:57 We have Sergio Massa and Javier Millet.

00:40:02 You have the floor, Sergio.

00:40:04 The truth is there are some people that listen that they seem to-- that they seem not to

00:40:12 pay attention to what they're saying.

00:40:15 They have-- they have made-- Argentina is in the worst debt right now.

00:40:21 And I've listened to others that forget that Argentina is with the worst road in history.

00:40:26 I have to make clear.

00:40:28 I've solved the emergency when a lot of people-- when a lot of people did not.

00:40:34 I was not avert.

00:40:36 I was solving the situation with the same love December 11 in the production and the

00:40:41 work I'm going to put-- to put the economy, with the regional economies.

00:40:48 Everyone talks, but the only one that solved the situation was me.

00:40:52 Thank you, Massa.

00:40:53 It's correct what I want to talk about.

00:41:01 And now we have Javier Millet.

00:41:04 I'm surprised because the border age have talked about debt, about the debt with importers.

00:41:12 Argentina has-- and that was a form of corruption.

00:41:18 I'm excited to see-- and the corruption die to the importers.

00:41:24 I am surprised.

00:41:25 I am surprised what the border says, not for the work thing that Massa does, but for the

00:41:31 fact that its potential and its economy is joined for the Massa in order to take into

00:41:40 account.

00:41:41 I mean, she asked him for taking of corruption.

00:41:47 That's what you want to do for a change?

00:41:50 Juan Esquereti.

00:41:51 In the interior, the pyramid to-- in order to import, it has to have-- it has to have

00:42:01 a lot of money within only on the functionaries of Massa.

00:42:04 And besides, a truth that favors the national economy, we ask-- we ask to declare the original

00:42:15 economy.

00:42:16 And instead of doing that, he makes removal of the nation, Massa.

00:42:26 Left the field.

00:42:27 You have to left the field.

00:42:28 Let it produce-- let it produce a quantity of dollars that it can-- that it can come

00:42:33 to Argentina instead of-- instead of-- instead of leaving aside.

00:42:39 Thank you.

00:42:40 And now we have Sergio Massa.

00:42:44 The truth is we should sustain with votes in the Congress what is being held here because

00:42:53 a lot of the-- of the income that were created between 2015 and 2019 for the part of the

00:42:59 head of the payments and producers were voted by deputies of Cordoba.

00:43:04 I want to make it clear, the milk, the tobacco, and other original economies that change--

00:43:11 Salta, Jujuy, Cacamanca-- were benefits in the last few months with the elimination of

00:43:19 the retention that no one-- that no one encouraged to do it.

00:43:23 You come here and you talk and you talk and you talk about living inside.

00:43:28 And afterwards, you come and you deplegate all the efforts.

00:43:33 And now we have Juan Esquerrera.

00:43:36 Go.

00:43:37 Córdoba has less-- the less rate income in Argentina because it is 2.51% of Córdoba

00:43:45 within 2.93% in the rest of the country.

00:43:48 What are you talking about, incomes?

00:43:49 What are you talking about?

00:43:50 And why?

00:43:51 I want to-- to declare original economy in the milk instead of eliminating retention.

00:44:01 You said that you put food on the-- on the field.

00:44:04 You eliminated retention in the field after assuming it.

00:44:07 And you don't want to lower-- I don't want to lower-- and that makes that the region

00:44:11 is going to be weak.

00:44:15 A lot of dollars a year.

00:44:19 There's a lot of dollars per year in this-- in this thing that you have done.

00:44:26 And now we have Juan Esquerrera.

00:44:30 You use five replicas.

00:44:32 You-- you don't have-- you don't have space to talk.

00:44:40 And now we have Miriam Brinkman.

00:44:41 She has two minutes.

00:44:43 I want to say the word that seems to be forbidden, workers.

00:44:48 Because they want-- they want us to believe that the-- that the-- that the workers-- that

00:44:52 the problems in labor that we have, it is the workers that have a lot of rights.

00:44:57 And that if we-- and if we put it that side, we're going to be happy.

00:45:01 And I also talk about when we talk about the model, when we talk about the-- you don't

00:45:09 have to tell me the reality.

00:45:10 I know all the reality.

00:45:12 I know what is happening in the country right now.

00:45:14 And what I see is that-- that we're very divided in workers, on their social program, on their

00:45:23 tributes.

00:45:24 That division is generated in order to exploit us every day.

00:45:29 And the Senegal leadership is one that guarantees this from-- this division.

00:45:34 That's why we have to recover Senegal in order to have the tool for fighting, to-- in order

00:45:42 to prove that we are united, that we have the most majority and we have the strength

00:45:46 to turn back history.

00:45:48 From the left, we have the-- we are the only one to have the proposal to unite-- to unite

00:45:53 the workers in labor who propose reduce the labor-- the labor day to six hours, five days

00:46:00 a day.

00:46:01 And the hours that are free-- that the hours that are free, they should be-- they should

00:46:05 be done for the ones that should-- that they have no job.

00:46:09 This way-- this way only apply by the big companies who can generate 1,000,00 and 2,000

00:46:16 jobs that no one is going to have a salary that is lower for the basic needs and without

00:46:25 rising the rhythm of works.

00:46:28 We have to make it clear.

00:46:31 It is not seven-- it's not passing over to the other one.

00:46:37 The people-- the working labor should be the-- the-- the pillar of the society.

00:46:43 The thought that is going to be the head of the society.

00:46:46 Thank you very much.

00:46:47 And now, we have three minutes for Javier Millet.

00:46:53 The employment of the private-- there are some nades since 2011.

00:46:58 That implies that the income for Cabra and Argentina '15 lower than the low-- than the

00:47:05 reference.

00:47:07 Not only that.

00:47:09 The amount of works in the-- in the former sector is millions.

00:47:15 There-- the labor market is unbalanced.

00:47:20 The only way to have a solution to this is with the economic growth.

00:47:26 And with the economic growth implies the rise of capital-- physical capital and human capital.

00:47:32 And as well as technological progress.

00:47:34 Now, the emulation of capital is given with a new birth.

00:47:38 No one is going to invest in money which they don't have.

00:47:42 I mean, which you have-- so without the fiscal, it is-- it is impossible to earn some money.

00:47:48 And if you earn money, it's impossible that you want to-- to get that salary.

00:47:56 Besides, you have to finance that.

00:47:58 And that finance with savings.

00:48:00 And that implies-- and that's-- that implies delay the-- the time.

00:48:06 However, what they only do is consume the capital with a-- with expensive-- when one

00:48:14 modify the incomes, the benefits lower and there is less capital.

00:48:19 There is an inflation that is also an income.

00:48:21 But it also-- but it also blurs the prices.

00:48:27 And then you come to debt.

00:48:29 And then you come the higher rates.

00:48:32 And therefore, the venture is lost and the-- and the employment is for real.

00:48:37 And we have to talk about social justice, redistributing the incomes.

00:48:41 Therefore, this measure of tackling the model of charge should be complemented with the

00:48:47 organization of the system-- of the labor system and reducing penalty.

00:48:51 Therefore, we have to take into account the-- the worst of fear for Emilio Berman.

00:49:01 When Millen talks, it makes it too hard.

00:49:05 It has real-- and the station is out.

00:49:10 License is out.

00:49:12 Agonald's out.

00:49:16 If you are-- if you are a retributist, third, not registered, you are out.

00:49:24 But what once who Millen proposes, you are not better.

00:49:27 You are not going to have the rights that you don't have today because the only liberty

00:49:32 that Javier Millen defends is the liberty of that just ploids without limits.

00:49:37 Thank you very much.

00:49:38 Javier Millen, you have the right.

00:49:39 If socialists were not about economy, they would not-- they would not be socialists.

00:49:51 It's your case, Miriam.

00:49:54 If you can give me the 10 seconds that you stole.

00:50:00 Yes, 20 seconds.

00:50:03 You talk about reducing the labor day in order to have more time.

00:50:10 This is wonderful because then we have to take it on our day.

00:50:17 It's going to be-- it's going to be job for everyone.

00:50:23 But everything is going to be a few.

00:50:27 You're saying that the salary is just fee for the rise for the basic needs, but that's--

00:50:33 you know what's the problem?

00:50:37 With everything that you propose, instead of having more, we're going to have less.

00:50:44 Thank you, Javier Millen.

00:50:47 You really used all the possibilities you had.

00:50:51 And now we have Sergio Maza.

00:50:52 It's your turn.

00:50:55 That's how far you've come.

00:51:01 Stop-- stop disrespecting the woman because beyond thinking, take it aside.

00:51:09 You have the right.

00:51:11 I want to make clear what Millen is suggesting.

00:51:15 Basically, it is a labor market where women, they have no possibilities of development.

00:51:21 The young ones, they have to go to the market with the salary.

00:51:26 Where the workers, they lose the right to vacations, to pay vacations and then station.

00:51:32 And above all, we're going to go back for a dictatorship.

00:51:39 That is what he's suggesting.

00:51:41 Thank you, Sergio Maza.

00:51:44 And you have had all your rights.

00:51:48 And we asked the people that you don't make any time manifestation.

00:51:54 And now we have-- we have the development of these subjects, the work and production,

00:52:00 the Patricia Boric, you have two minutes.

00:52:03 Argentina has everything, but the Argentinians, we don't have anything.

00:52:07 It's been 20 years that the political mafia, they have all their houses.

00:52:15 They have judged their houses.

00:52:17 We all know that.

00:52:19 A trial has been done.

00:52:25 Unemployment is only given in formality.

00:52:29 That's why we want to get the payments to fill in production in all the country, with

00:52:41 all the regional economies.

00:52:45 Also his language, he said that we don't have the retentions.

00:52:48 We defend the ones who work, not the one who block the companies.

00:52:55 That he closes-- she closed her company for a blockade.

00:52:59 You defend the syndicalists around the CDC, not every day they close their companies and

00:53:04 end their job.

00:53:05 We are going to lower the incomes of jobs.

00:53:08 And we want to make a real law for the informal job.

00:53:13 Because if you have informal jobs, if you have social plans, there is a law, there is

00:53:19 a simple law that you can have unemployment.

00:53:22 We are not going to do anything.

00:53:25 You are inside.

00:53:26 On the other hand, we have it very clear, indemnization must be just for both the parts.

00:53:33 There are not.

00:53:35 And in the trade world, it cannot be anything wrong.

00:53:43 All the ones who are making stops, everyone who are making threats, with us, Argentina

00:53:52 is stopped, it's ended.

00:53:54 We have Argentina with work, with families who have jobs, where they can live in happiness,

00:53:59 where they can live in happiness, quiet, and they cannot be joined by poverty.

00:54:04 Thank you, Patricia Bulrich.

00:54:06 We were listening to the candidates address the second topic of this debate, which is

00:54:10 labor and production.

00:54:12 And in the same way in which we were saying before that Patricia Bulrich was bound to

00:54:16 be under the spotlight in the first round of interventions about security, the same

00:54:21 could be said about Sergio Maza, current Minister of Economy, in this topic of labor and production.

00:54:27 While candidates like far-right Javier Milet, Patricia Bulrich pointed out the economic

00:54:32 crisis the country is undergoing, Sergio Maza took his chance to point out the current

00:54:37 situation is largely caused by the gigantic debt with the IMF contracted by the former

00:54:43 administration of Mauricio Macri.

00:54:45 We go back to Tobias Belgrano.

00:54:48 How did you see the candidates on this topic?

00:54:50 Well, it was interesting.

00:54:53 There were some individual battles that were really, really interesting to see.

00:54:58 Sergio Maza defended his policy regarding the reduction of the income tax to 300,000

00:55:05 workers.

00:55:06 This reduction--especially for our viewers that do not know about this policy, this was

00:55:11 a strong reduction of a lot of workers in the formal sector.

00:55:17 Bregman attacked Maza with the classic workers' speech of the leftist Workers' Party in Argentina

00:55:27 with the question if a public official can live with the salary of--with the basic salary

00:55:33 of a retiree or a basic worker.

00:55:37 Milet in this part of the debate did a strong defense of capital and how the candidates

00:55:47 are not talking about the capital and the owners of capital in this part of the debate.

00:55:54 And Bullrich attacked the results of the--in the economy of Sergio Maza rather than bringing

00:56:00 proposals.

00:56:01 That's what I thought in the first part of this--of the taxes.

00:56:05 Maza to defend himself against the attacks of Schiaretti.

00:56:13 It was interesting, that debate, because Schiaretti accused him of having strong taxes against

00:56:20 agriculture, and Maza defend himself saying that many of the--that agriculture is suffering

00:56:30 today were voted by his deputies in the National Congress, and he compared and did a parallelism

00:56:37 with his personal efforts to reduce tax in agriculture against Schiaretti's votes for

00:56:46 pro-increasing taxes.

00:56:50 He and Javier Milet are going to lose some of the protagonism they have been having in

00:56:54 the debate due to he--they use all their intervention.

00:56:59 And also Milet in the last part of the debate, when they start to--they started to talk about

00:57:04 workers' rights, brought against, once again, the need of a labor reform against the unions

00:57:11 due to the lack of creation of formal jobs since 2011.

00:57:17 He also defended the need to reduce consumption to generate capital and expand the creation

00:57:26 of new jobs.

00:57:29 With this brought a debate regarding if the Argentina needs a labor reform to reduce workers'

00:57:38 rights, with the idea of having more formal workers.

00:57:44 This is a long-standing debate in Argentina.

00:57:48 And finally, Maza, it was very interesting to see him defend Miriam Bregman.

00:57:54 He was quite smart in that intervention.

00:57:56 He defended Miriam Bregman, accusing Javier Milet of sexism and as an authoritarian.

00:58:03 And also he related the lack of workers' rights with the lack of women workers' rights that,

00:58:13 according to Unión por la Patria and a more center-left speech, are the most vulnerable

00:58:19 workers in the labor system in Argentina.

00:58:24 It's interesting to pay attention to, as you were saying, how Milet, when he's talking

00:58:30 to some of the candidates such as Maza or Bulrich, not Bulrich so much, but he tends

00:58:37 to have a milder tone.

00:58:39 But definitely with Miriam Bregman in this last exchange, he doubled down very harshly,

00:58:45 showing some of that charisma that brought him to television shows on the first time.

00:58:53 And we were talking about the labor reform.

00:58:56 This was one of the most important topics in this last round of speeches.

00:59:01 And Patricia Bulrich from Together for Change also talked about the importance of doing

00:59:07 some kind of labor reform.

00:59:09 She also talked about the informal workers.

00:59:13 And actually the need for a labor reform was one of the key elements from the last Mauricio

00:59:20 Macri's administration, which he couldn't actually put into practice as it faced a very

00:59:26 important popular resistance also on the streets.

00:59:31 So Tobias, how do you see this topic going ahead on a future presidency, be it from whoever

00:59:38 of these candidates?

00:59:40 Do you think Argentina is bound to face a new attempt at a labor reform of some sort?

00:59:48 Well, that really depends on who wins the election.

00:59:53 Probably we're going to see a stronger approach and enforcement of a potential government

01:00:01 of Javier Vila if he's finally elected president to impose a reform.

01:00:07 We will have to see, because as we said, Together for Change is a coalition, so the radicals

01:00:14 that are part of this coalition might not support a labor reform against formal workers

01:00:22 rather than the libertarians might support in a stronger measure.

01:00:28 So we would have really to see who finally tends to win the election.

01:00:33 And I believe that Javier Mileja has a stronger opportunity to at least try to pass the reform,

01:00:42 because we also didn't saw any projects from Together for Change to strongly change the

01:00:50 labor system in Argentina through legislation in Congress.

01:00:55 So I would say that Javier Mileja has a strong interest in this happening than Together for

01:01:03 Change, that it's a coalition, so they have to debate this kind of reforms.

01:01:08 And I don't see the radical part of the coalition supporting this kind of reforms.

01:01:16 That makes sense.

01:01:17 And also I was thinking, we were talking about how Sergio Maza, as Minister of Economy, has

01:01:25 of course a key point to, like a key part of this discussion when we're talking about

01:01:30 labor and production.

01:01:32 And even if many of the candidates have used this spot against him, of course signaling

01:01:39 to the economic crisis that the country is facing, in the last debate and in this one

01:01:45 again, Maza is clearly trying to use this position in his favor, calling to all the

01:01:52 measures that he has been implementing on the last month.

01:01:57 Let's recall, let's tell our viewers that in the last weeks, Sergio Maza, current Minister

01:02:03 of Economy in Argentina, besides being the ruling presidential candidate, he has sent

01:02:11 to Congress and has approved different measures targeting different sectors of society.

01:02:18 One of the ones that has transcended the most was the income tax reform, favoring many workers

01:02:26 whose salary were affected by this tax.

01:02:32 How do you see his perform in this topic and the interventions that were made on this regard,

01:02:40 regarding Sergio Maza in particular, and the possibilities for him to sustain this position

01:02:46 in this complex economic crisis?

01:02:49 Well, as I was saying before, it was very interesting seeing Sergio Maza pass through

01:02:55 from a more defensive position to a more offensive position, not only defending his position

01:03:02 of the income tax, and also, as I said before, defending Miriam Bregman from Javier Millet,

01:03:09 sexism.

01:03:10 It was really interesting to see that.

01:03:12 Sergio Maza in the previous debate was quite elusive and quite quiet in the attacks he

01:03:19 received, and he also spent all his interventions during the debate very quickly, so he lost

01:03:28 a lot of protagonists in the first debate.

01:03:31 So everyone thought that in the first debate Maza wasn't hitting so hard.

01:03:38 So now we're seeing him getting more aggressive and getting more defensive.

01:03:42 And it was not only interesting to see him defending Miriam Bregman, but also how he

01:03:46 attacked Juan Echiarrete for his attacks against his tax reduction in agriculture, and how

01:03:56 he brought that and spin it as a boomerang against him when he said that his legislature

01:04:02 voted for increasing taxes in the national level against the agriculture and against

01:04:09 regional economies that he claims to defend.

01:04:13 So we're seeing a more offensive Maza without losing his temper, looking presidential, not

01:04:21 losing his temper, but attacking back and leaving, like, slight messages against his

01:04:27 opponents that might finally stay in the viewers' mind after the debate.

01:04:36 Maza is definitely playing the role of being the one who is capable of sustaining that

01:04:42 tension spot.

01:04:44 That is what he intended to do when he first assumed the economic minister, and now he

01:04:51 is going through this presidential candidacy in a very tight economic spot.

01:04:58 Also the spotlight was put on strikes and labor rights as well.

01:05:05 Patricia Bullrich came back to this topic once again.

01:05:10 This is one of the things that she has been bringing up in her political speeches, that

01:05:16 is, this thing of denying political rights, denying strikes.

01:05:23 She targeted specifically many labor activists.

01:05:27 How did you see her intervention?

01:05:30 Well, Patricia Bullrich has a long-standing debate against protests and against the use

01:05:39 of repression against protests, especially because traffic in Buenos Aires City is sometimes

01:05:45 interrupted by strikes and worker strikes.

01:05:49 And this is part of her speech also in her political spots in propaganda before the primaries.

01:06:00 Her main spot was in bringing order and passing labor reform, even by force if necessary.

01:06:11 So reducing the strikes in the streets by using repression and bringing this labor reform

01:06:20 by force if necessary.

01:06:22 That's the speech of Patricia Bullrich that was really weakened by the primaries, because

01:06:28 many people who were angry with Peronism didn't want to vote for Patricia Bullrich, because

01:06:36 workers, not only formal workers, but informal workers, don't want to be promised that they

01:06:43 will be repressed and attacked by police forces if they vote for a person.

01:06:50 That's why many of the votes in the popular sectors of Argentinian society went to Javier

01:06:57 Millet rather than Patricia Bullrich.

01:07:00 So this is kind of the situation of Patricia Bullrich.

01:07:03 That's why she had some difficult weeks before this debate.

01:07:07 Now I'm seeing her much more secure of herself and attacking more, and with a stronger speech

01:07:15 and a stronger rhetoric, rather than their first debates and the previous weeks before

01:07:19 the debate, that she showed a really weak speech and weak capacity to transmit her,

01:07:28 to communicate her ideas and communicate her will to pass reform.

01:07:34 That's why Javier Millet called her, "She's my second brand."

01:07:37 I mean, I'm the first brand.

01:07:39 She's the copy, the replication of my ideas.

01:07:43 That's why also even former president Mauricio Macri, it's kind of like moving, slightly

01:07:54 moving away from Patricia Bullrich and getting closer to Javier Millet, but not explicitly.

01:07:59 So that's why we are seeing Patricia Bullrich navigating a very tense situation where she

01:08:04 had to show strength, because if not, she's going to run third, and probably this would

01:08:10 be a strong problem for Together for Change coalition that has the risk to break if this

01:08:18 finally happens.

01:08:21 And as we continue on this special edition of Latin America Votes, following closely

01:08:27 the second presidential debate in Argentina, it would be important to recall to our viewers

01:08:35 that just days away there was the numbers of poverty released in society that was over

01:08:43 40%.

01:08:44 So of course many of these candidates were referencing the tight economic situation and

01:08:49 also the need for people to have an important decision there to being able to go back to

01:09:01 an economic measure that will ease the way into a better economic problem.

01:09:05 Now let's listen to Sergio Massa, who is speaking at this third round of speeches.

01:09:15 We are going to address the problem for water and electricity.

01:09:37 All of this financed by the government.

01:09:41 We need to take care of a common house, a common house will be Argentina.

01:09:50 We also need to address the topic of the penal code.

01:09:56 Those who damage the environment have to go to prison from one to three years.

01:10:07 We need to take advantage of the natural resources of our country.

01:10:14 We are also having a great quantity of hydrogen that we need to take advantage of.

01:10:26 We want all the people in Argentina to be protagonists of these changes, from this development.

01:10:36 This is the challenge that we will face in the next four years.

01:10:47 Beyond what is being discussed in Congress, Massa said that they have a proposed for rent

01:11:03 for their citizens.

01:11:06 That would be a mistake because that would worsen the situation for those who don't have

01:11:10 a house right now.

01:11:19 We need accessible housing for our citizens.

01:11:27 We need the money not to go to the FMI.

01:11:31 We need that money to go for the people in our country.

01:11:42 There are two million people living in poverty since you are Minister of Economy.

01:11:53 These people don't have money.

01:11:54 These people are not able to provide for their families.

01:12:02 We all know that those people are not able to buy a house.

01:12:06 We all know who are the ones who can't afford to buy a place.

01:12:13 This problem that we're facing right now, you generated this problem.

01:12:19 We are going to work in order to solve that problem that you created.

01:12:25 This is the only way that we can overcome this situation.

01:12:31 We are going to hear the words, "Right now, we are facing a complicated climate situation."

01:12:44 Even though we are facing this situation right now, all candidates are proposing to over

01:12:54 exploit the natural resources that our country has.

01:13:01 They are promising to change our economy and economic model, but we saw these promises

01:13:09 before.

01:13:10 We saw that these promises lead nowhere.

01:13:18 They are willing to do anything as long as companies can grow and be able to produce

01:13:26 more and more money.

01:13:29 Another thing that this government has allowed is the over exploitation of petrol in areas

01:13:46 that are near to the coast.

01:13:50 And one thing that they're not taking into account is the right that the people who live

01:13:55 in that area are being violated.

01:13:59 Their rights are being violated and we need to fight against this over exploitation of

01:14:10 areas where people live in.

01:14:19 We need to create new laws for our citizens to live in peace, not being concerned about

01:14:29 their environment.

01:14:30 And we're going to address this topic without changing people's lives for worse.

01:14:42 From my point of view, I think there are three main elements for human development.

01:14:59 We need to pay attention to these points which are very much linked to the liberty right

01:15:12 that every people has.

01:15:24 We need to pay attention to the needs of the people who are repressed.

01:15:38 Taking into account education, we need to work on this topic.

01:15:49 And in order to do this, we need to analyze the situation and therefore we propose to

01:16:01 give personalized assistance to those who need it and regarding healthcare.

01:16:18 We need to have full knowledge of the amount of people who are living in each province

01:16:24 in order to make sure that every people is receiving the healthcare they need.

01:16:40 And in order to defend the liberty of each people, we need to hear their concerns.

01:16:51 I did not understand a word of what you said.

01:16:54 I think that discourse you just made was taken out of the internet.

01:17:04 And this kind of discourse only shows the irrationality that your ideas are portraying.

01:17:17 And we were listening to the candidates address the third topic of this debate, human development,

01:17:27 housing and environmental protection.

01:17:29 Tobias Belgrano, political analyst, has been joining us to analyze this debate.

01:17:35 Anything to underscore in this first interventions?

01:17:38 Well, Massa, once again, showing his presidential position, proposed a credit line updated by

01:17:50 salaries rather than inflation and without pay by the US dollar.

01:17:56 These updates made by salary growth in Argentina, the current salary makes it almost impossible

01:18:02 to access housing as housing is mainly priced in US dollars.

01:18:09 He also attacked contamination in rivers and in forests and quoted the Pope as his main

01:18:18 inspiration to protect the common house, as he said.

01:18:23 In this position, he was attacked by Miriam Bregman, especially against the rental law

01:18:30 that has been passed in Argentina that has made it almost impossible.

01:18:36 This law was passed, just for our viewers to understand, this law was passed three years

01:18:42 ago with the support of the current government, Unión por la Patria, and, frente de todo,

01:18:49 the Peronist government, and together by change, the opposition.

01:18:52 It was a bipartisan coalition project.

01:19:00 This law was contraproducing and brought really difficulties to rent properties for Argentinians

01:19:09 and has made the renting market quite more complicated than what it was.

01:19:14 Massa said weeks ago that he didn't believe there was the need for a national law for

01:19:19 this rather than local laws which view the reality of the market of each local region

01:19:28 and local province rental market.

01:19:33 Once again, the debate will have Massa--has Massa's presidential bringing proposal and

01:19:39 his attacks by--he being attacked by Miriam Bregman and Javier Millet and Patricia Bullrich.

01:19:45 There are little proposals in this debate.

01:19:49 I've seen only Massa being more proactive in this sense rather than the rest of the

01:19:57 candidates that tend to attack him and attack each other.

01:20:03 So my intuition is that Massa will keep this pose of presidential and he will be attacked

01:20:11 by the rest of the candidates.

01:20:15 Javier Millet will keep imposing his speech against the political establishment in Argentina,

01:20:22 and Schiaretti will keep his idea of representing the provinces of the rest of the country.

01:20:35 And once again, as we said, Patricia Bullrich and Miriam Bregman will keep attacking Sergio

01:20:39 Massa in his presidential posture that he has been exercising during all the debate.

01:20:46 Well, thank you, Tobias Belgrano, for joining us in this special edition of L8 Votes.

01:20:53 It's been a pleasure to have you with us.

01:20:55 And now we will continue watching Argentina's presidential debate.

01:21:00 Let's listen.

01:21:01 At a house, it is only that we have the houses.

01:21:19 There is a need.

01:21:20 There is a need with everyone.

01:21:22 And that is why.

01:21:24 There is a disability in the economy with the salaries, and that is not happening right

01:21:32 now.

01:21:33 And the national and the provincial states should be the housing for the sectors that

01:21:42 need it, as they also should be the housing for the sectors that are not happening, because

01:21:48 people cannot.

01:21:50 And we should continue fulfilling the agreements for the country and the Agenda 2013.

01:21:57 And we should stop.

01:21:58 And we should stop what the government of Massa did, that they lowered the income of

01:22:05 the government, perjudicing the Code of Attributes and all the provinces that are producing oil,

01:22:13 bread and rice, and the amount of charts.

01:22:21 We have to take into account the oil and keep it in the prime percent that must be made.

01:22:27 There are a lot of resources in Argentina that are being benefitted as well, and we

01:22:34 have to take into account this.

01:22:37 I want to make those records available for all the people.

01:22:41 Thank you, Juan Ferretti.

01:22:45 Each of the candidates has a committee to talk about the human development, housing

01:22:50 and protection.

01:22:51 Let's remember that for now there is no possibility of repudiation between the candidates.

01:22:59 And now we are going to talk about the last session of this debate, that is, there are

01:23:04 the cross-questions, in a space that offers the possibility of a cross between the candidates.

01:23:10 Each of you will have to make a specific question to the ones who are in the scenario.

01:23:17 Four rounds, where each of you are going to ask a question and answer them.

01:23:23 And you are also going to have 15 seconds to ask your questions and 45 seconds to answer.

01:23:32 Please adjust the timing that you asked.

01:23:35 Let us start by the first question, which is Patricia Bullrich, that Javier Milley should

01:23:41 answer.

01:23:47 With what money did you make the campaign?

01:23:50 Do you believe that you are going to earn that with all the money that you have in your

01:23:53 list, Milley?

01:23:54 Milley?

01:23:55 Bullrich.

01:23:56 You have a lot of people in your list that come from other sides, and the country has

01:24:05 a lot of inflexibility.

01:24:07 And as long as you can wash your past with this nation, we only yell and we only say

01:24:16 things we cannot change.

01:24:17 We cannot have another people.

01:24:19 And I'm telling you, in the case, look, the informal job is more important than the

01:24:26 formal.

01:24:27 And all the ones that want to add to solve the problem with Argentina are welcome.

01:24:32 Let us use space that you keep blocking, because when the leader of your space is going to

01:24:39 be rational, you are going to be out.

01:24:41 Thank you, Javier Milley.

01:24:42 Now, do you have the turn?

01:24:45 Once Javier Milley, you ask a question, and Patricia Bullrich, answer it.

01:24:51 We in Córdoba said that in two years, the gas laws.

01:25:01 The government that should participate have failed.

01:25:03 What is your plan so that in order to have this product?

01:25:08 Córdoba received the most quantity of products in the presence of Mauricio Macri.

01:25:20 There is nothing about the electorate.

01:25:23 You know perfectly that it was one of the provinces that had moiled this product.

01:25:28 In San Francisco, it lied, because when San Francisco started, it advanced 30% with the

01:25:36 government of Mauricio Macri.

01:25:39 Everything that we did in the Mauricio Macri government and this campaign, I believe that

01:25:45 you should, as Córdoba, you don't need to be a candidate president that seems to acknowledge

01:25:54 the presence of Mauricio Macri.

01:26:00 Miriam, you voted with us in the last year, and only two with Liberty Advances.

01:26:08 On last Sunday, you didn't come.

01:26:11 For real.

01:26:13 For you, Milley and us are the same thing.

01:26:16 I believe that you are responsible because everyone represents Milley as a leader and

01:26:27 a less.

01:26:28 And yes, you call her from National Unity.

01:26:34 The other day you called her from National Unity, and you didn't mention me.

01:26:39 And you may not, Milley.

01:26:42 You know we're the ones who are going to be able to pay the IMF.

01:26:47 If you want to face the right, you have to left to right side, because they governed

01:26:53 and they failed.

01:26:54 And now they have the less, Javier Milley, as recognizable.

01:27:00 Now to the program of the IMF.

01:27:02 Sergio Tobias Rush.

01:27:04 And now it's your turn.

01:27:07 Javier Milley, yes.

01:27:09 And Sergio Massa, answers.

01:27:12 Massa, I value your tweets regarding what happens for Israel.

01:27:18 Can you explain?

01:27:20 Can you explain me?

01:27:22 How are you going to make your international policy if you have people that support your

01:27:31 policy?

01:27:32 The first thing that I want to tell you is since 2014, in that moment, I wasn't looking

01:27:41 for international politics.

01:27:42 And I have been suggesting the law of adjustment in absentee, that the terrorists that were

01:27:52 in Argentina could be judged in Argentina.

01:27:56 And I've been blocked systemically by the party of the Bulrich.

01:28:02 But I want to make this clear.

01:28:05 I'm not only condemn the terrorist attack.

01:28:08 December 10, I'm going to be president.

01:28:10 And I'm going to exclude Jemez in the list of terrorist organizations in Argentina.

01:28:18 Miriam Brinkman asks, and once you've got the answers, you were in Malay with Macri,

01:28:24 and now you're going with Malay.

01:28:26 Is that the future that you promised to the Cordoba people and to the whole country?

01:28:33 It was a functionary that made the first treaty alone.

01:28:39 I was also the functionary that made it possible to the other orders that were coming.

01:28:47 And also, I gave possibility of within the Macri and other ones to accuse me of Macri's.

01:28:57 What we are not going to do ever is to repeat.

01:29:04 And we are not going to vote for Malay dead and for to die since everything that's happening

01:29:08 right now.

01:29:09 Thank you.

01:29:10 The second round of the cross-questions.

01:29:11 Javier, you voted against, against the government of De Barrio with Genitas.

01:29:25 A lot of people in Argentina have this disease.

01:29:30 How do you explain the mom that said will not be able to attend his son, Masa?

01:29:37 It seems that your addition to stability has given you run.

01:29:43 Public health, those kind of problems, they have to be worked for the public health.

01:29:54 This means that if you want to make a law in order to be done, it means that the system

01:30:00 is run.

01:30:01 If you're going to have health and that is work, it's not going to be stolen.

01:30:09 And that made a disaster as one you did in the pandemic situation.

01:30:16 And we wouldn't have had all the deaths that we had.

01:30:21 Sergio, why don't you comply with the law that you paid all that you did and paid the

01:30:33 20% for non-fulfilling the lay?

01:30:41 The people did not understand and we are talking about the claims of the provinces as it updated.

01:30:50 I wanted to tell you because the governor, as his mandate does not note, but we decided

01:31:00 to widen the budgets in order to establish a mechanism of updating automatically so that

01:31:08 the revocation of the jubilation of Portobelo and the jubilation of the country has mechanisms

01:31:14 and the automatic updating and it has the funds to guarantee that the eligibles, they

01:31:22 have the money, the money that the nation puts every month.

01:31:34 We were listening to the cross questioning a moment in this debate in which all candidates

01:31:39 have 15 seconds to ask a question to every other candidate.

01:31:43 And now to continue commenting on the most relevant aspects of this presidential debate

01:31:48 in Argentina, we welcome our next guest, political scientist, Elias Bertolotto.

01:31:54 Elias, how are you?

01:31:55 It's a pleasure to have you here in LA Votes.

01:31:58 Hi, thank you for having me here.

01:32:01 It's a pleasure me too to be here and be able to talk about the debate.

01:32:07 Exactly.

01:32:08 It's a pleasure for us to have you here as well.

01:32:11 Elias, what have been the most important highlights up to this point according to your point of

01:32:16 view?

01:32:17 Yes, well, for me the debate is going in a kind of predictable way because we are seeing

01:32:28 how each of the candidates are expressing their ideologies in a way that is kind of

01:32:35 conflictive.

01:32:36 We'll see most of the candidates are kind of attacking Millet for his view in the housing

01:32:44 and the economy and the environment.

01:32:49 These are our principal points.

01:32:50 Not many of them are saying their own plans about what to do.

01:32:56 Bregman and Massa and others, they say like the rental law and things which lack like

01:33:05 the wetlands law.

01:33:08 This last one is about the protection and reservation of international important wetlands

01:33:14 in Argentina.

01:33:15 This law that Bregman, Miriam Bregman, the candidate for left front say is an important

01:33:22 advance in the legislature about the protection of the environment in Argentina.

01:33:28 Twenty percent of the territory, the national territory are wetlands.

01:33:33 This is one of the most important things in the debate.

01:33:39 But there are many things said.

01:33:42 Millet talk about his three points, longevity, education and income, but don't really talk

01:33:50 about the real problems.

01:33:53 And the other candidates, they were more about attacking the propositions than proposing

01:34:00 something themselves.

01:34:04 That's interesting.

01:34:05 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:34:11 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:34:18 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:34:24 Now let's continue if you want, listening to the debate, and then we continue the commentary.

01:34:29 That's interesting.

01:34:30 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:34:36 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:34:43 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:34:44 Now let's continue if you want, listening to the debate, and then we continue the commentary.

01:34:45 That's interesting.

01:34:46 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:34:47 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:34:48 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:34:49 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:34:50 That's interesting.

01:34:51 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:34:52 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:34:53 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:34:54 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:34:55 That's interesting.

01:34:56 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:34:57 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:34:58 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:34:59 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:35:00 That's interesting.

01:35:01 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:35:02 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:35:18 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:35:19 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:35:20 That's interesting.

01:35:21 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:35:22 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:35:23 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:35:24 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:35:25 That's interesting.

01:35:26 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:35:27 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:35:28 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:35:29 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:35:30 That's interesting.

01:35:31 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:35:32 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:35:33 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:35:34 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:35:35 That's interesting.

01:35:36 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:35:37 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:35:38 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:35:39 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:35:40 That's interesting.

01:35:41 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:35:42 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category

01:35:43 itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:35:44 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:35:45 That's interesting.

01:35:46 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:36:02 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:36:03 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:36:04 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:36:05 That's interesting.

01:36:06 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:36:07 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:36:08 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:36:09 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:36:10 That's interesting.

01:36:11 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:36:12 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:36:13 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:36:14 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:36:15 That's interesting.

01:36:16 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:36:17 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:36:18 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:36:19 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:36:20 That's interesting.

01:36:21 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:36:22 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category

01:36:23 itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:36:24 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:36:25 That's interesting.

01:36:26 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:36:27 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category

01:36:28 itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:36:29 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:36:30 That's interesting.

01:36:31 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:36:55 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:37:02 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:37:03 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:37:04 That's interesting.

01:37:05 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:37:06 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:37:07 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:37:08 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:37:09 That's interesting.

01:37:10 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:37:11 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category

01:37:12 itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:37:13 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:37:14 That's interesting.

01:37:15 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:37:16 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:37:40 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:38:06 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:38:11 That's interesting.

01:38:12 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:38:21 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:38:24 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:38:27 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:38:28 That's interesting.

01:38:29 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:38:30 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:38:31 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:38:32 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:38:33 That's interesting.

01:38:34 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:38:35 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:38:36 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:38:37 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:38:38 That's interesting.

01:38:39 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:38:40 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:38:41 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:38:42 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:38:43 That's interesting.

01:38:44 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:38:45 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category

01:38:46 itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:38:47 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:38:48 That's interesting.

01:38:49 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:38:50 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category

01:38:51 itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:39:12 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:39:38 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:39:45 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:39:50 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:39:51 That's interesting.

01:39:52 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:39:53 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:39:54 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:39:55 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:39:56 That's interesting.

01:39:57 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:39:58 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category

01:39:59 itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:40:00 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:40:01 That's interesting.

01:40:02 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:40:03 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category itself

01:40:04 was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:40:05 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:40:06 That's interesting.

01:40:07 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:40:08 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category

01:40:09 itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:40:10 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:40:11 That's interesting.

01:40:12 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:40:13 housing, human development, the last one before the cross questionings, the category

01:40:14 itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this baked as you were pointing out.

01:40:15 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:40:16 That's interesting.

01:40:17 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:40:18 housing, human development, the category itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this

01:40:34 baked as you were pointing out.

01:40:37 Now let's continue the commentary.

01:41:00 That's interesting.

01:41:08 And also one thing to keep in mind is that the broad of this category, which includes

01:41:21 housing, human development, the category itself was sort of allowed the candidates for this

01:41:37 baked as you were pointing out.

01:41:43 I would like to know why do you support other countries instead of paying attention to the

01:41:50 problems in your country?

01:41:57 A few days ago, we heard that Argentina is going to be host for 2030.

01:42:09 I would like to know why do you propose the city of Cordoba to host this event?

01:42:23 We are going to make some adjustments.

01:42:26 We are going to improve the structure of this city in order to be able to host this event.

01:42:37 What we need is you to comply with your promises for 2023, not paying attention to other matters

01:42:50 that are not so important as this one.

01:43:00 Thank you very much, candidate, for your intervention.

01:43:05 I asked you about your relationship with MASA and the negotiations in the economic sector.

01:43:28 I can say that the person who is in charge of the economy of this country is a serious

01:43:41 person, a very serious person.

01:43:42 He's not a person who reads popular books as you do.

01:43:52 I can really note that 46 million Argentines are struggling to make ends meet.

01:44:00 And dollarization is not the answer for this problem.

01:44:13 And we continue commenting this political event that is the presidential debate in Argentina.

01:44:20 Two weeks before the first round of elections.

01:44:22 And now we go back to political scientist Elias Bertolotto.

01:44:26 Corruption, public spending and climate change were some of the mentioned topics in this

01:44:31 cross-questioning round.

01:44:33 Elias, you have specialized and published a book on climate change and public measures

01:44:37 to counteract it.

01:44:39 What is your opinion on Millet's recent statement on climate change just being one more natural

01:44:45 cycle?

01:44:46 Well, first of all, Millet contradicted himself by saying that he didn't say that he denied

01:44:56 the climate change, that it is only a process, a fifth stage of climate change, which is

01:45:04 natural and which is not.

01:45:07 Because even the United Nations, by the IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Crisis,

01:45:17 talk about the scientific proof and necessity to stop human activities that contaminate

01:45:26 the environment.

01:45:27 Millet talks that human activities don't have anything to do.

01:45:33 And it is going along with his speech, with his discourse of talking about free management

01:45:43 of environmental.

01:45:44 And I quote, he said that a company can and is able to should contaminate the water of

01:45:53 the rivers.

01:45:56 Because the water has not a private owner, so there is no profit.

01:46:02 So nobody should protect it.

01:46:05 And that's a problem.

01:46:06 He didn't say recently in the debate, but it's something that he said some days ago.

01:46:13 And so Bregman cited in a way by saying that he not only talked about that, but the contamination

01:46:20 of the rivers.

01:46:21 And there is a problem with that kind of thinking, in a way of saying that if nobody protects

01:46:30 the water, which is an essential resource for survival, for life, life will be lost.

01:46:38 Not only human or animal, but even the agricultural industry will be lost because there is no

01:46:44 water.

01:46:45 And it's the only objective of the state, from his point of view, from Millet's point

01:46:52 of view, is the profit, which he calls is the law of the free market, is a problem.

01:46:59 Because we will have two conclusions.

01:47:02 The first one, if nobody protects, the water will be contaminated and that will affect

01:47:08 everyone.

01:47:09 Or the second one, if no one protects it because there's no profit and somebody should own

01:47:18 it to defend it, there will be a monopoly of a private company that will buy the land

01:47:25 and will have all the resources of the waters.

01:47:28 And that will be a problem because people won't have access to water and that will be

01:47:35 not only difficult to the communities, but even in the profit, from his point of view,

01:47:40 to the long term, because if there's a monopoly of water, which is an essential resource,

01:47:47 the economy will halt.

01:47:49 And he's saying that it is natural that this didn't happen and there shouldn't be no regulation.

01:47:55 It's a problem in the book, which I wrote a chapter and my colleagues wrote on some

01:48:00 other chapters, we talk about the importance of the role of the state and the policies

01:48:09 need to be taken to take care and protect the common resources, which are not private

01:48:16 from an individual or a company, but are common from the people, because they are the right

01:48:22 of the people.

01:48:23 And Brehmann said a good point attacking Millet from that angle.

01:48:30 This is something that even the United States, the scientific community and many, many states,

01:48:35 even in Latin America, in the book that we wrote, I researched about some cities and

01:48:41 there's an example of Bogota, the city of Colombia, in which the municipality controls

01:48:50 the 66% of the actions of the energy company, which it aligns with the sustainable development

01:49:04 objectives of the United Nations, because the United Nations says that the state must

01:49:10 guide the private enterprise to protect the environment.

01:49:16 And that is something that we need to talk about and say what it is.

01:49:23 It's interesting exactly what you were saying, Elias, about the climate change and the role

01:49:28 of the state.

01:49:29 You mentioned the UN and its objectives for development.

01:49:33 And just weeks ago, we were witnessing, we followed the UN's General Assembly, also

01:49:40 the G77 Summit, and climate change and especially a demand from global south states for further

01:49:49 collaboration for the states to be able to pay and put financing into actions to counter

01:49:57 our climate change was one of the key topics.

01:50:00 It appears to be one of the things in which governments, at least at the global south,

01:50:07 are very united in stating, because of course it is affecting most of all southern countries.

01:50:16 So in this sense, Millet's stance is really contradictory to what's happening worldwide.

01:50:24 How have you seen Millet in this debate, besides this point in particular?

01:50:28 Anything to stand out?

01:50:31 Well, when he spoke, he did not talk about the houses or the development.

01:50:41 He talked, criticized Burrage about economics.

01:50:46 And that topic was already over.

01:50:48 So he has only a focus, which is economics, and he put all his time and effort talking

01:50:58 about that, even though that topic is already over.

01:51:03 That proved that he doesn't know too much about the other things like we are talking

01:51:07 today.

01:51:09 And this can be seen clearly by the way that he doesn't bring so many new ideas, let's

01:51:18 say, how he did in the previous debate in which he talked about a lot of the economic

01:51:28 topics and kind of security topics.

01:51:31 This time around he is kind of losing his grip in his charismatic way of talking.

01:51:40 Exactly.

01:51:41 And one might think that Millet's way of addressing this political debate is using

01:51:48 a strategy of repeating the same political stances that have brought him to TV shows,

01:52:00 to social media.

01:52:02 And as you were saying, it seems that he will not move from those things, even though he

01:52:08 tries at some point to come back from some of these statements, as he did with the climate

01:52:14 change stance, which now he says he hadn't denied in the past, although he had.

01:52:21 Also I think it would be interesting to think that in this debate we see a lot of confrontation

01:52:29 from different candidates that could be fighting for similar votes.

01:52:37 We see a lot of Millet and Bulrush going back and forth, some interaction from Miriam Bregman

01:52:44 from the left front, also fighting Sergio Massa from the center-left ruling coalition.

01:52:53 We can see definitely that the candidates understand this is the last moment for them

01:52:59 to show society, to convince the votes ahead of the first presidential election.

01:53:07 How have you been seeing this back and forth?

01:53:10 Well, this back and forth, as you say, it shows which are the topics that each one of

01:53:21 them is specialized.

01:53:23 Bregman knows more about this kind of topics.

01:53:26 She talks about the housing, about the rights of the people, about the problem with the

01:53:36 security when she confronts Bulrush.

01:53:41 Here we have two opposite views, in which one talking defense of the security and armed

01:53:47 forces, and the other talk about the problems that may bring with the excessive use of force

01:53:55 from this branch of government.

01:53:58 With the case of Massa, we have seen that he in one moment talked about a kind of union

01:54:06 of support to Schiaretti, in which he said that he supported Cordoba as a center of global

01:54:17 importance, but we can see later on that Schiaretti denied those claims, denied that he held that

01:54:26 way and was something that Schiaretti himself had already done in the past, and criticized

01:54:33 the intent of Massa of uniting.

01:54:36 We see these types of confrontations, which are very obvious, and obviously the Millet

01:54:43 case that we already talked about, in which the other candidates always attack him because

01:54:50 this is the topic in which he is the most weak and the most vulnerable to attacks in

01:54:56 an argumentative way, because he doesn't explain, let's say, very well his points and is only

01:55:03 focused on the economic terms of profit.

01:55:08 Excellent, Elias.

01:55:13 This really adds on our commentary that we have been doing here in LA Votes, following

01:55:19 this debate for the presidential candidates in Argentina.

01:55:24 And we hear now from our other host, Luis Alberto Matos, who is here following the political

01:55:30 debate as well.

01:55:33 Following what the candidates have been saying, and of course what you and our special guests

01:55:38 have been analyzing of the speeches that the different candidates have delivered.

01:55:42 It has been interesting hearing all of them again face to face after seven days from the

01:55:46 first vote.

01:55:47 I believe that all of them came following a specific strategy coming from that first

01:55:52 debate.

01:55:54 And especially the main three candidates that are on the focus of the media, we are talking

01:56:00 about Millet, Massa, and Burridge.

01:56:02 Burridge, knowing that she's trailing behind in the votes preference, she came clear that

01:56:07 she had to attack, in a way, both Massa and Millet.

01:56:11 And on Millet's side, he has been more, you could say, more soft, more calm towards Massa,

01:56:17 who has really put the finger on Burridge in different occasions, by different questions

01:56:23 and interventions that he has, criticizing more actively Burridge's proposals than Massa's.

01:56:29 And Massa has also been speaking from his position as economic minister, because I believe

01:56:35 that in this debate he has been making the most proposals.

01:56:38 The other candidates mostly were criticizing what is going on right now in Argentina, the

01:56:43 conditions that they claim, the persons or the systems that they put blame on.

01:56:50 But with that lack of, what would they do different?

01:56:54 However, Massa, I believe, has put more proposals on the table.

01:56:58 And not only that, because he has also taken advantage of the policies.

01:57:03 So he's not only bringing promises of what he could do, but also what he has been doing.

01:57:08 There was a moment where he expressed, when he was being attacked by Burridge and Millet,

01:57:13 that he expressed that he came to the office of the minister of economy in a moment when

01:57:19 no one in Argentina was willing to take that jump to--everyone was pretty much cars around,

01:57:27 and he did not hide, as he said, under his bed.

01:57:29 He took a step forward and faced the economic crisis, especially deriving from the debt

01:57:34 from the IMF that was acquired during the previous government of Mauricio Macri.

01:57:40 In different moments, I believe, also all the candidates have followed their line.

01:57:45 Burridge has been very adamant about order, but with an iron fist.

01:57:50 In many occasions, especially referring to labor, she spoke about how strikes and all

01:57:55 these kind of mobilizations of workers had to come to an end.

01:57:59 And her position has always been clear, and she has said in different occasions, so everyone

01:58:03 expects if she would be elected a government that would repress these strikes and these

01:58:10 protests of the workers when they ask for their rights.

01:58:13 On the other hand, also we have seen the weakness, I believe, of the different candidates, especially

01:58:19 more noticeably speaking about Millet.

01:58:23 When it came to talking about human development, the protection of the environment, and all

01:58:30 these topics, and labor, he could only refer to the economic side.

01:58:37 So this is what I believe we have been taking from this debate.

01:58:41 Excellent, Luis.

01:58:44 And now we go back to Argentina, because the candidates are ready to do their final and

01:58:49 closing statements.

01:58:56 I believe that besides showing my management in my province, and that made progress, I

01:59:17 defended the interior, and I'm the only candidate in the interior of the homeland.

01:59:23 I defended the interior with a decentralism, and I asked you to accompany me with your

01:59:29 votes to make a normal country.

01:59:35 Now we have the...

01:59:37 Probably this minute is going to be one of the most important of my life.

01:59:41 I would like to tell you that what is the way towards Argentina, the way that Argentina

01:59:48 should vote for the next four years, coming back, or is a future and betting for the model

01:59:56 of production.

01:59:57 Either a mom that you want to protect, protect yourself from the ones who are benefiting

02:00:04 the sale of weapons, and you believe in investigators, in the public education.

02:00:09 I would like to have other pymes who are workers, and tell you that we are going to fight for

02:00:15 the economy growth.

02:00:18 Argentina is getting into the crisis, maybe the worst crisis in the last years, the worst

02:00:23 that has happened.

02:00:24 I told you that you have a very important minute, because probably you're going to decide

02:00:29 for the next four years.

02:00:30 I asked you to go, I asked you to go and look for the Argentina flag.

02:00:40 And we finished the second debate, 2023.

02:00:43 It was an honor to participate.

02:00:46 Thank you very much.

02:00:55 And this is how the political debate in Argentina ahead of the first presidential elections

02:01:01 of October 22nd comes to a close.

02:01:04 And we are here with Elías Bertolotto, political scientist, who's joining us.

02:01:09 How did you see this closing statement, Elías?

02:01:12 Well, the last statements were most focusing in the unity, for example, as Massa said,

02:01:21 the love for the country, in which we are looking for more union, and less conflict,

02:01:28 more similarities, and less difference.

02:01:31 It's the last time they were able to talk, so they chose the time to be able to give

02:01:39 a message of comforting the people about the reasoning why they must be voted, that they

02:01:47 will unite and not divide.

02:01:49 And this can be seen, but at the same time, some other points before the closure were

02:01:56 kind of conflictive, attacking one another that was previsible, because it shows at the

02:02:06 same time that even though in the last moments they talk about unity, they must differ in

02:02:12 themselves from one another to prove themselves.

02:02:16 The case of Millet, as the first one to have a win in the first round, he felt that he

02:02:26 had already won the race.

02:02:29 This time we see him more vulnerable to the different attacks about this topic, while

02:02:36 Buric and Massa, in which we are saying that they are fighting for the first, second and

02:02:44 third place, they are more provoking and trying at the same time to search for the difference,

02:02:53 to differ in themselves and prove to the audience that they are the ones that should be voted.

02:03:00 The case of Schiaretti, we are seeing that he maintains, he postures about being the

02:03:07 negotiator, be the one who doesn't really go all the time attacking, he throws ideas,

02:03:14 he says that the interior of the country, the countryside must be respected in a federal

02:03:22 way, not in an Italian way, in which Buenos Aires, Amba, Cava, the capital city, has more

02:03:31 resources and should be redistributed to the rest of the province.

02:03:36 In the case of Bregman, we see that she felt comfortable with these topics and she went

02:03:44 for the attacks to each of the individual candidates to prove herself and to her voters

02:03:53 that she is defending their ideology and their interests.

02:04:00 It's very interesting to see this dynamic within the candidates.

02:04:03 It's the last time we are going to see them debate within themselves.

02:04:07 From now on, there comes the last election and the final decision of the people to choose

02:04:14 who is going to be the next president of Argentina.

02:04:18 Excellent, Elias.

02:04:21 We thank you for joining us here in LA Vote.

02:04:24 It's been a pleasure to have you.

02:04:27 The pleasure was mine.

02:04:28 Thank you.

02:04:29 See you next time.

02:04:31 And like this, we have come to a close in this special edition of LA Vote for Telesur

02:04:37 English.

02:04:38 But before we close, I want to also come here and join our other host, Luis Alberto

02:04:45 Matos.

02:04:46 How did you see these final statements in this debate?

02:04:48 Well, I saw the statements following the same lines that they followed through the debates.

02:04:54 Bury is calling for an order.

02:04:57 Massa calling for a government of unity.

02:04:59 And Millet going on his own path of blaming the state for everything and wanting to change

02:05:04 everything and make reforming everything that needs to be reformed according to him.

02:05:09 Let us remind our viewers, Belen, that now Argentina will decide its future on October

02:05:14 22nd.

02:05:15 If the winning candidate does not exceed 45% or 40% with a difference of 10 percentage

02:05:22 points from the second place, we will have another debate on November 12th before heading

02:05:28 to the runoff so that the Argentinean people can decide who's going to be the next president

02:05:34 and what are the policies they're going to be working on in the future, which will not

02:05:38 only affect, I believe, Argentina, but also the region and the international arena.

02:05:46 That is exactly what we are expecting for.

02:05:49 And this will all take place on October 22nd.

02:05:52 So thank you for joining us.

02:05:55 And we expect for you to be back in this countdown towards Argentina's presidential elections,

02:06:01 which will take place, as Luis was saying, on October 22nd.

02:06:05 For Telesur English, I'm Belen De Los Santos, and we'll see you next time.

02:06:09 [MUSIC]

02:06:19 (upbeat music)

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