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(Current Affairs)

Host:
- Waseem Badami

Guests:
- Shoaib Shaheen (Lawyer)
- Shahid Khaqan Abbasi (Former PM)
- Muzzammil Aslam (Economist Analyst)
- Dr Khaqan Hassan Najeeb (Economist Analyst)

"Chairman PTI ne koi deal nahi or na karte hain," Advocate Shoaib Shaheen

Shahid Khaqan Abbasi hints at formation of "new political party"

"Election hi chori karte rahen gay to mulk agay nahi barhay ga," Shahid Khaqan Abbasi


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Transcript
00:00 In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful. Peace be upon you. The statements, and then after that, the argument that this statement has been out of context quoted, this has been a very interesting situation in the last 24 hours, from the government.
00:25 From the Minister of Interior to the Minister of State, he kept giving statements, and when those statements became a rumor, both said that it is very unfortunate. Our statements are being quoted out of context. We never said that.
00:39 The Minister of State gave an interview to a foreign news agency and said that if the chairman of PTI or PTI is not in the election, then what difference will it make? The election will still take place. See what exactly he said.
00:53 The electoral process would be relatively neutral, fair, free, and there wouldn't be any organizational or institutional involvement.
01:02 Still, it's quite possible, as you know, that Imran Khan's supporters will not accept that he is not on the ballot. And if it is the case that they return to the protests on the scale of what we saw back in May, what will that mean for this vote?
01:16 As far as legitimacy is concerned, a vote with or without protest, if it happens in those eight hours, it does remain legitimate.
01:25 Pakistani politicians have had a political marital alliance with this institution for their own. Once they are out of the power, this is one of the favorite mantra to criticize the reason behind that failure as an imbalance between the civil and military relations.
01:44 Pakistan's Interior Minister, Mr. Sarfaraz Bugti, in an interview with ARY News yesterday, gave an impression of Nawaz Sharif's arrival that if there is no bail, there will be an arrest.
01:56 What arrangements do we have to make for the arrest? What kind of a big army do we have to prepare? What will be the arrest? See what he said.
02:04 A criminal comes and gets off the plane and to arrest him from the plane, a large army is not needed. There is a place. We will not allow the mob there anyway.
02:18 So if they do not get bail from the court, they will have to be arrested. And I think they themselves will want to be arrested.
02:26 But when this statement was also taken very seriously, when Maria Mourang Jeev Sahiba said that the Interior Minister should look at his political stature and talk, when Rana Sanaullah Sahib said that do not forget that the previous Interior Minister Sheikh Rashid was in a bad state,
02:38 then this is the innocent statement of Mr. Sarfaraz Bugti that this statement has been quoted out of the context.
02:44 So anyway, this is very interesting. Anyway, there is also a possibility of establishing a new political party on the political agenda of Pakistan, in which Mustafa Nawaz Khoqar, Mifta Ismail, Shahid Khakan Abbasi, etc. can be included.
02:59 Shahid Khakan Abbasi has already given his statements on this issue. A little while ago, Mr. Mohammad Zubair, in the program of KY News, in the program of Kashif Abbasi, he addressed Shahid Khakan Abbasi and Mifta Ismail by saying this.
03:13 Shahid Khakan Abbasi and Mifta Ismail, first stop the Noon League. When there is so much clarity that we are on someone else's shoulders, we are doing two-digit politics, we are doing deals, then why are they playing on both sides of the wicket?
03:25 Because before this, Mr. Shahid Khakan Abbasi has given some statements about his party that are going to raise eyebrows.
03:33 Especially when Nawaz Sharif said that when we come, we will take the account of Qamar Javed Bajwa and General Faiz, Shahid Khakan Abbasi said this.
03:45 I don't understand how you will do it, on which forum you will do it. The next question that you will ask is that you can do it for 16 months from the government, you can do a lot in 16 days, you can do it in 16 hours.
03:57 16 months is a very long period. If you had a hurdle, General Bajwa had a hurdle, then you would have left the government. Even after that, you will get 8-9 months. If this is the case, you can do it. Hundreds of decisions are such that you have no hurdles, no hurdles.
04:14 I didn't see those decisions that should have been made. We could have done it much better, we didn't do it.
04:22 This is very important, very interesting. Shahid Khakan Abbasi was such a senior leader of Muslim League, I will not say that he is still there, because he has not yet announced that he will leave the party.
04:30 That means he was made the minister of the Ujjwa and he is saying all this. Our guest today will also be Shahid Khakan Abbasi. Let's start a conversation with him after a break.
04:39 [Music]
04:46 Welcome to Prime Member, former PM Shahid Khakan Abbasi is also with us, we are connecting him.
04:51 And meanwhile, another presentation that took place today, that Imran Khan was finally transferred from Attock to Adiala Jail.
04:57 Imran Khan's legal team, his important members, senior PTI, Rahman Tarjuman have also been appointed for PTI.
05:04 Let's quickly take an update from Shoaib Shaheen. Huzoor, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
05:07 Wa-alaikum-as-salam.
05:09 Shoaib Sahib, is this today's presentation, is it something that you can express your satisfaction in the sense that yes, we have some hope in terms of justice.
05:19 Or you will say that this is such a basic thing that what can be said about it, that things are going on as they were.
05:26 Look, we have, in fact, today we have found out that Khan Sahib himself said that I am settled in Attock, I don't even need to go there.
05:34 And secondly, when we said, this, which we also had an objection on, according to which the judges had decided,
05:43 they had decided to keep him in Adiala Jail, and they took him and sent him to Attock Jail, and we don't know who sent him.
05:49 And secondly, we had filed a petition that day that he should be kept in Adiala Jail.
05:54 And the judge, a month ago, gave him some bail in that case.
05:59 And after that, now two months later, he has decided to send him to Adiala Jail.
06:04 That is a routine matter. It doesn't make any difference.
06:08 The thing is that we say that we are getting today's level playing field.
06:13 We say, give us the field.
06:15 The people who have been arrested, present them in court.
06:18 You have made false cases.
06:20 You have made more.
06:23 But at least give them a chance in court.
06:26 You see, today, Mishwandar, today, Shizakir Bapasi, Sheikh Rashid, Mishwani, and many more people are with us.
06:33 They don't even know about the courts.
06:35 We are tired of filing petitions.
06:37 And Ali Awan's brother was released after a month and a half.
06:41 Similarly, Shahzad Akbar's brother was released.
06:43 And this kind of, now this is a good thing, Nimran Dayaz has come.
06:48 But where are those kidnappers who kidnapped him, kept him for 150 days?
06:53 The problem for us is that our case is far away.
06:57 Justice is far away with us.
06:59 We say that at least give us a place to stand.
07:03 And you don't see any hope from this question right now.
07:06 Because the day before yesterday, there was a talk, when Imran Riaz came,
07:09 that things are getting better, that the direction of the winds is changing, that something is happening, that the matter is going towards a deal.
07:14 Is this a speculation or is there something like this on the ground?
07:17 Sir, those who make deals, those dealers sit in London, sit in Dubai, and don't call them leaders, call them dealers.
07:24 Imran Khan is a leader. His life and death is in this country.
07:27 Neither will he make a deal, nor has he made a deal.
07:29 Yes, we demand a right, that is our right.
07:33 We say that you have put this country in the midst of destruction in the enmity of one person.
07:39 Stop doing this adventure.
07:41 For God's sake, get free and fair elections done.
07:45 The roots of this country have been cut off.
07:47 Today, people are forced to commit suicides due to inflation.
07:51 Today, you don't have food.
07:53 Today, you don't have a country to sustain.
07:56 Will we continue to walk in the same way as we have walked in the past?
07:59 Right. And finally, Mr. Shoaib, the judge, the judge,
08:02 since you have a legal background and you have been in bars and all these things,
08:06 Amir Farooq is very interesting, about whom the chairman himself has said,
08:10 that he does not issue any decision without instructions, he does not do anything.
08:15 So, from there, the matter of bail, the matter of the Adiala election,
08:19 how is all this happening? What is happening?
08:21 This can also be a kind of trap.
08:24 The one who is doing injustice below,
08:26 I have to say this with all due respect to the kind of dramatist,
08:30 he looks stylish, he said, I am Dilawer, not Dilawar.
08:34 Dilawar kept making wrong decisions, but I don't.
08:37 And whatever he did, in the case of the cipher below,
08:40 one or two undated, see, without presenting the accused,
08:43 neither physical nor judicial demand can be sent, and it is also necessary to be a lawyer in it.
08:47 He sent an undated, one, stopper, that the gentleman is also in our custody.
08:52 It means that it was signed and kept.
08:54 The day we were bailed out, that day the temple came on the day of the public.
08:57 And the second, he took six days off.
09:00 Sometimes one excuse, sometimes the second excuse, sometimes the third excuse,
09:03 sometimes he said, first he said, we will put a red petition in the High Court,
09:06 until his decision is not made.
09:08 Before that, he brought an order that, sir, no, you decide on the bail.
09:11 Yes, yes, I will ask about Amir Paroor sir, but do you have confidence or not?
09:15 I am coming to that.
09:16 This is also a kind of trap, it is possible,
09:19 so that Shah Ahmad Qureshi is in jail,
09:21 and his trial in jail,
09:24 and he is punished through that judge, in the case of cipher.
09:28 I think this is a trap.
09:30 He must have never done it in the love of Nain Khan or to give a right.
09:35 There must be a wisdom behind this too,
09:38 and what wisdom will be there, time will tell.
09:41 We have repeatedly requested.
09:43 You are saying this about Amir sir.
09:45 Yes, yes, we have repeatedly requested Amir Paroor sir,
09:48 that you do not listen to our cases.
09:50 But the unfortunate thing is that,
09:52 And your demand is still there, it is not that your demand is still there.
09:55 From the case of Tehrean to date, in every case,
09:58 they have deliberately delayed,
10:00 and the previous one, the one against Jatosha Khan,
10:02 And the decision to go to the Judicial Council is also based on them.
10:05 I think this is also a decision of PTI,
10:07 and if it is, I do not know much details about this,
10:12 it must be a matter of waiting,
10:14 but the question is that this is a judicial misconduct.
10:17 Two judges have decided, you have made a different opinion,
10:20 that matter came on the website,
10:23 and despite that, they were taken back.
10:25 And there are many such cases,
10:27 that is, the order is now,
10:29 yesterday, there was a bail in the case of Saifur,
10:32 instead of deciding on that bail,
10:34 they said that I should first decide
10:36 whether the in-camera trial will be held or the open trial will be held.
10:39 And then today the order came,
10:40 that no, sir, it will be open,
10:42 until the prosecution gives any application.
10:44 But for an unannounced period, our bail has been postponed,
10:47 because the bail has now been found out that it was postponed to 2nd.
10:50 Thank you sir, thank you very much, thank you very much, Shoaib Shahi.
10:52 He was saying very interestingly,
10:54 the Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court,
10:56 he has made some recent decisions,
10:58 like bail or that okay, sir,
11:00 we will shift the case to Adiala instead of Attak.
11:02 The PTI has already given its opinion against the Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court.
11:05 Now there are some decisions that have been accepted by the PTI,
11:08 by these judges.
11:10 On this, Shoaib Shahi says that we feel that this is also a trap,
11:13 that this is an attempt to trap us,
11:15 and we still do not trust the judge,
11:17 and we still demand that he does not listen to our cases.
11:19 The things of Islamabad High Court,
11:21 it seems like they are trapping us in their cases.
11:23 Very interesting.
11:25 Shoaib, we have brought the former Prime Minister of Pakistan,
11:27 who has been waiting for you.
11:29 Huzoor, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
11:31 Yes, Walekum-Salaam.
11:33 I am sorry, I got stuck here.
11:35 Yes, yes, I was waiting for you.
11:37 No problem, sir.
11:39 Sir, let's go, we will come to the question directly,
11:41 because we have a little less time.
11:43 Sir, how far has the establishment of this new party reached?
11:46 Tell us, because Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar said on TV
11:50 that we intend to form a new party,
11:53 and I am trying to convince Shahid Hakan to be a part of it.
11:57 So, are you convinced or not?
11:59 Look, it is not about being convinced.
12:02 This has been going on for a long time.
12:04 When we started the Reimagining Pakistan movement,
12:06 from that time, all of you used to say that a party is being formed.
12:10 The party had no purpose.
12:12 The purpose was to talk about the issues of the country,
12:14 to have a forum where the issues of the country could be discussed.
12:18 And we did that. We went to all the provinces,
12:20 talked everywhere, talked about the issues,
12:22 talked about the solution to the issues.
12:24 Now, for some time,
12:27 then it is a matter of being a new party.
12:29 Whatever the matter is, it should have a purpose.
12:33 I have been with the Jamaat for more than 35 years.
12:37 Today, the problems of the country,
12:39 the issues of the country, how will they be solved?
12:42 My question is,
12:44 have the Jamaats in the country been able to solve them?
12:48 In the last three years, every Jamaat has been in a state of turmoil.
12:50 I swear, no one has been able to solve them.
12:52 So, what we are talking about today is that
12:54 you need a solution to the problems of the country.
12:56 You have seen everything that is happening in the country.
13:00 So, today, the need is that we talk about the problems of the country,
13:03 talk about its solution.
13:04 So, are you convinced to form a new Jamaat to solve the problems of the country?
13:08 Should a new Jamaat be formed?
13:10 It is not a matter of my conviction.
13:12 I am saying that it is a matter of purpose.
13:15 This is not a matter of forming a Jamaat or coming to power.
13:19 This is not a matter of seats.
13:20 The purpose should be there.
13:22 And the purpose today is very clear that the country should be solved.
13:25 If the old Jamaats are unsuccessful,
13:27 then certainly a new Jamaat will be formed.
13:29 One will be formed, two will be formed, and more Jamaats will be formed.
13:32 I am asking you, will you form a new Jamaat or not?
13:34 I can ask you, will you form a new Jamaat or not?
13:38 You can ask me.
13:40 I can only answer you that if there is a purpose,
13:43 then certainly there should be a purpose for the country to benefit.
13:46 I am in favour of it, I am not against it.
13:48 Then you tell me whether there is a purpose or not,
13:50 whether the country will benefit or not.
13:51 Purpose? You tell me the purpose.
13:53 I am asking you.
13:54 I have told you.
13:55 I said that you will form a Jamaat.
13:56 You said that if there is a purpose, then we will form a Jamaat.
13:57 I said that you tell me whether there is a purpose or not.
13:59 How can I tell you?
14:00 I have repeatedly said on TV that
14:03 today I see elections as being without a purpose or purpose.
14:08 Because we have not talked about the problems of the country.
14:11 Until you decide on the path ahead,
14:14 no Jamaat can solve the problems today.
14:17 There will be no purpose for the elections.
14:19 Sir, in today's date, you are a part of Noon League.
14:22 Yes, I am a part of Noon League today.
14:24 I am not a member of Noon League, nor was I in the cabinet.
14:28 But I am a part of Noon League.
14:29 But Mr. Shahid, now you listen to this.
14:31 You are a part of Noon League.
14:32 I had run it, you were not there.
14:33 You have started getting advice from within Noon League.
14:36 On record, on air.
14:38 Mr. Zubair said today that I am the translator of Nawaz Sharif.
14:41 He said in today's program.
14:42 And then he gave this advice.
14:43 It is very clear to you.
14:44 Listen to what he said.
14:46 Then you tell me.
14:47 Listen to it.
14:48 Mr. Shahid, let's leave Noon League first.
14:51 When you are so clear that we are on someone else's shoulders.
14:54 We are doing two-digit politics.
14:56 We are doing deals.
14:57 So why are they playing on both sides of the wicket?
14:59 Sir, you are getting advice from within Noon League.
15:03 I respect Mr. Zubair's opinion.
15:05 It is coming from within Noon League.
15:07 I am also in Noon League.
15:08 The thing is that what I am talking about is the country.
15:13 Today we all have to talk about the country.
15:15 Give us advice.
15:17 Give us advice.
15:18 I respect every advice.
15:19 He is saying that if you are feeling so bad about Noon League.
15:23 You feel that you are not even able to deliver.
15:24 On both sides of the wicket.
15:25 Then if we are doing deals.
15:27 Then you leave the party.
15:29 Why are you playing on both sides of the wicket?
15:30 So he has a point.
15:31 I have delivered.
15:32 Yes, I follow their advice.
15:35 They are not capable of giving me advice.
15:37 I have never criticized the party.
15:40 I have talked about the performance.
15:42 That for three years and eight months, Imran Khan did not do any work at this time.
15:46 Then we stayed for 16 months.
15:47 That we were able to work.
15:49 We will have to see our performance.
15:52 Today people ask questions.
15:53 Neither I have the answer nor Mr. Zubair.
15:56 If you make a new party.
16:00 You are saying that you have talked about making a new party.
16:02 I will not repeat.
16:03 So the party will be made.
16:04 How will the voters come?
16:05 The voters are already set.
16:07 PTI, Noon, People's Party.
16:09 How will the voters come?
16:11 Yes, the voters will come.
16:13 If the voters see that there is a party.
16:15 Whose purpose is to talk about their situation.
16:18 Then the voters will come.
16:19 You give people an alternative.
16:22 I am not against any party.
16:25 But if these parties cannot solve the problems of the people.
16:29 Then people will look elsewhere.
16:31 The purpose of the Reimagining Pakistan that we started.
16:34 That these parties should be awakened.
16:37 Talk about the people.
16:39 Talk about the solution to the problems of the people.
16:41 That thing is not visible today.
16:43 Okay, Mr. Shahid.
16:44 Sir, you said that I am in Noon.
16:45 So will you go to Lahore on 21st October?
16:48 Is it the rule for the welcome of the respected?
16:51 Yes, on 21st October.
16:53 I will be in Noon League.
16:56 But this is not about participation.
16:59 We have to talk about the problems of the country.
17:02 Whether there is participation or not.
17:04 Today, the purpose of Muslim League is to talk about the problems of the country.
17:07 We have to talk about its solution.
17:09 And do you understand that the policy of Noon League is something.
17:14 You said that it is not about participation.
17:17 But it is a big political event.
17:19 That Nawaz Sharif is coming back after so long.
17:21 It is a big event.
17:23 For example, Mr. Javed Latif says that we are telling Kalkurnaan not to come to the airport.
17:27 Because there is a wedding season in October.
17:29 Cars will get stuck.
17:30 Ambulances will get stuck.
17:31 Children will be worried.
17:32 So we should not come.
17:33 Mr. Roel Azgar says that this statement is very stupid.
17:36 What is going on in Noon League?
17:37 Such a big event is going to happen.
17:38 There is no clarity yet.
17:39 What is to happen?
17:40 Do you want to welcome or not?
17:41 Do you want to call Kalkurnaan to the airport or not?
17:42 Look, when Mr. Mian will come back.
17:44 It was a big event for him to come back to Pakistan.
17:47 He will give direction to his party.
17:49 Today, I am talking to you in the party that every person is talking about himself.
17:53 All these things will happen.
17:55 The real problem is the pain of the people of this country.
17:58 Will anyone talk about it or not?
18:00 I am saying that we have to talk about the problems of this country, its people and their solution first.
18:07 When you say that no one will talk, what do you mean?
18:10 Because every group is saying that we want to come to the airport so that the situation of the people can change.
18:15 So he is saying this.
18:16 Everyone is saying this.
18:17 This is not a solution to anything.
18:20 Give me power, I will solve it.
18:22 All the power has been in power for three years.
18:25 Today, you are taking the last three months since the government has gone.
18:29 The third month is going on.
18:31 Has anyone talked about the problems of the people?
18:33 This is the problem.
18:36 So you are saying that this is not the solution.
18:40 So you said that talking about the problems of the people is the solution.
18:44 I said that everyone is talking, so you are saying that this is not the solution.
18:47 Everyone is claiming that we are trying to give relief to the people.
18:50 The current government says that we will try our best.
18:53 We have not found a country in ideal conditions.
18:55 We will try to leave the country as it is.
18:59 If these are not the solutions, then what exactly is the solution?
19:03 I am requesting that someone should talk about the people.
19:08 It is not the work of the government to do this.
19:10 They have come for three months.
19:11 The big parties are talking about the problems of the people.
19:16 If they are talking about the solutions, then tell me what performance they have given in the last three years.
19:21 Sir, you said that I am talking about your party.
19:25 Nawaz Sharif says that he will come and change the situation of the people.
19:29 Now you will ask him what he did.
19:30 He says that he did a very good job of saving the country from default.
19:34 Otherwise, if the country had been defaulted, what would have been left behind?
19:36 He says that he did a lot for the people in the last five years.
19:42 Now the people have different questions.
19:46 We do not have the answers to their questions.
19:49 This is a problem that will come to every community at the police station.
19:56 Today, no community can claim that they have the ability or performance to solve the problems.
20:04 This is the problem of the country.
20:06 Is there no solution to the problem in the election?
20:08 In general, the election is the solution to every political problem.
20:14 Today, the state of your economy is in a position where your politics is in a position.
20:20 If you do not determine the path of the future before the election, the election will give more momentum to the country.
20:27 Remember this.
20:29 Today is the time to sit at a table and decide the path of the country's political and governance stakeholders.
20:36 This will not work with words.
20:38 That is, the army, the judiciary and all the political parties sit together.
20:41 And the political parties, four or six big political parties, sit together and decide the path ahead.
20:47 Including Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf.
20:49 Including every party, including Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf.
20:53 These are all political parties.
20:55 These people vote.
20:57 If PTI or BALA is not in the election, will such an election be credible or will it be an activity that will create more momentum?
21:05 Whenever a party has gone out of politics, if it is not on the ballot paper, it becomes difficult to sell it in the election.
21:16 It becomes a source of more momentum.
21:18 All these things have happened.
21:20 What happened in the 2018 election?
21:22 During the elections, you convicted Mr. Mian Washington and dismissed the election.
21:29 The election was stolen.
21:31 If we keep stealing elections, then the country will not move forward.
21:34 Whether it is in 2018 or 2023.
21:36 Sir, this calculation is a problem.
21:39 Whether it is in 1948 or 2023.
21:43 This is the practice of election.
21:46 This is a very sacred practice.
21:48 We should treat it the same way.
21:51 Is this a solution to the problem?
21:54 For example, if Nawaz Sharif says that we will come back and do the same for these characters who did this to us in 2018,
22:00 because of whom the country fell from the map,
22:02 that is, Faiz, Bajwa and Judiciary, we will come and settle them.
22:06 Will this solve the problem or will it increase the problems?
22:11 If a community demands this, then you will have to take it seriously.
22:16 But my question is that these issues are secondary to the public.
22:23 These problems are definitely where we are standing today.
22:26 There are a lot of problems like this where we have reached.
22:30 But today the public says that they should talk about our problems.
22:33 Talk about solving our problems.
22:35 If we talk about accountability today,
22:38 that someone did this or that,
22:40 these problems have certainly occurred.
22:43 There are no two opinions on this.
22:45 But today, which law will you use to settle this?
22:50 Which planet will be there?
22:52 Who will be accused?
22:54 These are legal matters.
22:57 But I always say that a truth commission should be made on these issues.
23:02 At least the people of Pakistan should know the facts.
23:05 Otherwise, prosecuting these matters is almost impossible in my opinion.
23:11 It is impossible.
23:13 And when the previous government tried to do this,
23:16 do you think it was a good attempt or was it a waste of time?
23:20 I am pointing to Musharraf's accountability.
23:26 Was it a good attempt?
23:28 Look, Musharraf's accountability has been a mystery from the beginning.
23:33 No one knows who did what, who said what, who did what not.
23:37 No one knows.
23:38 Noon League did it.
23:39 Noon League was a government.
23:40 It was a government committee under Article 6.
23:42 Who said it?
23:44 The Supreme Court of the country said it.
23:47 They said that we should come in the morning of the Attorney General's office
23:50 and tell him whether he will be a president or not.
23:52 If he doesn't become a president, then we will become one.
23:54 Then the ECLO put the name of the president.
23:56 The Supreme Court put that name too.
23:58 So we forget all these things.
24:00 No, like there was one attitude that the PTI adopted.
24:03 The PTI openly came in support of Musharraf.
24:05 They said that we are with him.
24:07 There was one attitude that Noon League adopted.
24:09 They said that we are with him.
24:11 So, do you think Noon League did the right thing?
24:13 Look, I will request again.
24:15 We forget the facts.
24:17 There, the Supreme Court told the Attorney General
24:21 to ask the government
24:23 whether they will prosecute in this matter or we will prosecute.
24:27 And what did the government say?
24:29 And the government said that we will do it.
24:31 It is the responsibility of the government.
24:33 So, was this the right decision of the government to do this?
24:35 This decision, this choice was not there.
24:37 I am requesting this.
24:39 This choice was not there.
24:41 Okay, let's move ahead.
24:43 The Faizabad protest case has been reopened once again.
24:45 Everyone remembers that protest.
24:47 At that time, you were the Prime Minister of Pakistan.
24:49 Whatever things you saw,
24:51 to what conclusion did you reach
24:53 that it was an organic process,
24:55 whatever was going on,
24:57 or was it all engineered?
24:59 Look, these matters are not organic.
25:01 There is a purpose behind it.
25:03 We have seen all this.
25:05 You can see after 2013.
25:07 There was a protest, there was a down leak,
25:09 there was a drama leak,
25:11 the Supreme Court gave a decision,
25:13 the government was broken,
25:15 elections were stolen.
25:17 You are suffering the consequences of all these things today.
25:19 Now, the request is that...
25:21 Was the Faizabad protest also being used to weaken the government at that time?
25:25 Yes, I am saying this.
25:27 What else was the purpose?
25:29 But we forget what the consequences are.
25:31 When people cannot enter the country of the government,
25:37 if someone else has taken over the road,
25:39 then what must the 65 emigrants here write in their own country?
25:43 Who will invest here?
25:45 Who will come here?
25:47 Who will believe in the government?
25:49 We forget these things.
25:51 Who is at loss? The country is at loss.
25:53 The people of this country are at loss.
25:55 And where we are standing today,
25:57 all these mistakes,
25:59 all the violations are due to the mistakes of the past.
26:01 But sir, on one hand you are saying that
26:03 it was used against the government.
26:05 On the other hand, they say that
26:07 they only saved the government.
26:09 Otherwise, the people of the protest
26:11 were not ready to take anyone's bail except the army.
26:13 In this case, the army came,
26:15 the DGC came at that time,
26:17 they wrote the name,
26:19 Major General Faiz Ameen,
26:21 and saved the government.
26:23 So, did Faiz sahab trap the government in Faizabad?
26:25 Did Faiz sahab trap the government in Faizabad or save it?
26:29 The Police Commission will tell you the truth.
26:31 You were the Prime Minister at that time.
26:33 Who can tell you better than you?
26:35 I was the Prime Minister of the country.
26:37 What was happening there was above us.
26:39 This is a fact.
26:41 Whatever happened here,
26:43 it is not hidden in front of everyone.
26:45 I am saying that you or the army
26:47 You spoke to Faiz sahab at that time.
26:49 Or did Faiz sahab tell you before the protest,
26:51 before he signed,
26:53 did he tell you as a Prime Minister,
26:55 Sir, we are going to do this, you tell me.
26:57 No, I never spoke to Faiz sahab.
26:59 Ahsan Iqbal sahab was my minister.
27:01 He made the decision.
27:03 I am standing with him on this decision.
27:05 He has signed.
27:07 Why did he do it? You can ask him.
27:09 I will answer him.
27:11 But, the thing to understand is that
27:13 if you remain involved in these matters,
27:15 then who will talk about the future?
27:17 Today, the biggest problem of our country
27:19 is that Faizabad is not a part of it.
27:21 We have to find out the reality of the Faizabad protest.
27:23 If we have to find it,
27:25 then we should leave everything and start looking for it.
27:27 If the court wants,
27:29 call me, I will come and tell you.
27:31 I will tell you about what I know.
27:33 Whoever was there, call them.
27:35 Call the IG police,
27:37 call the Commissioner of Islamabad,
27:39 call the Interior Secretary,
27:41 call the Army Chief, everyone will ask.
27:43 We are very,
27:45 today the country is in trouble,
27:47 and where are we going? These things are very strange.
27:49 Because,
27:51 there are two opinions.
27:53 One is what you said,
27:55 leave the past and move forward.
27:57 One is that,
27:59 if you don't settle the past,
28:01 action will be repeated.
28:03 If the 99 characters were settled,
28:05 then 18 would not have happened.
28:07 Do 18 so that it does not happen in 24.
28:09 This is one opinion.
28:11 Your opinion is different.
28:13 Leave what has happened, move forward.
28:15 I am requesting you,
28:17 make a Truth Commission,
28:19 put the truth in front of the people,
28:21 let the people settle the history.
28:23 You cannot prosecute in courts.
28:25 I apologize.
28:27 Today,
28:29 5-6 years have passed,
28:31 what will you prosecute?
28:33 But at least learn from it.
28:35 We cannot prosecute, nor can we learn.
28:37 Then we make the same mistakes.
28:39 Thank you very much sir.
28:41 Thank you very much.
28:43 Mr. Shahid Haqqan Abbasi was with us.
28:45 After a break,
28:47 we will talk about the issues of the people.
28:49 We will present the issues of the people.
28:51 We have invited some experts in this field.
28:53 We want to tell them,
28:55 that we have kept aside
28:57 our technicalities and difficult terms.
28:59 In light of our experience,
29:01 we want to tell them,
29:03 that the petroleum prices
29:05 are Rs. 331.
29:07 What date is it now?
29:09 It is 26th,
29:11 and the date is going to come.
29:13 I don't know what is going to happen.
29:15 Someone is saying,
29:17 it is going to be Rs. 350, Rs. 450,
29:19 and in some time it will be Rs. 400.
29:21 What are the factors
29:23 that are causing the petroleum prices to rise?
29:25 Is it the government of the days to be blamed?
29:27 Or is it a political issue?
29:29 It is an economic issue.
29:31 Some politicians have made it a political issue.
29:33 You made it expensive,
29:35 you are a thief.
29:37 What is it?
29:39 Is there a solution to it or not?
29:41 [Music]
29:43 [Music]
29:45 [Music]
29:47 [Music]
29:49 Welcome.
29:51 Petrol has become Rs. 331.
29:53 How much will it be?
29:55 Why is petrol expensive?
29:57 Who is responsible for its price?
29:59 We saw,
30:01 the PTI government came,
30:03 before coming, Mr. Imran Khan used to say,
30:05 that the people of Pakistan are straightforward.
30:07 When the petrol is expensive,
30:09 the people of Pakistan will not do anything.
30:11 This is the only meaning of it.
30:13 They came and in their time,
30:15 petrol became expensive.
30:17 When petrol became expensive,
30:19 the people of Noon League said,
30:21 "Oh, they increased Rs. 3 on petrol,
30:23 for fear of God,
30:25 what did they do?
30:27 They increased Rs. 4,
30:29 what did they do?"
30:31 So we saw that what Mr. Imran Khan said,
30:33 they could not follow it,
30:35 and petrol became expensive.
30:37 When he kept aside Rs. 3, 4,
30:39 he said, "Rs. 15, Rs. 20, Rs. 21, Rs. 26, Rs. 24,
30:41 and it became Rs. 331."
30:43 So this means,
30:45 the claims that he made,
30:47 they could not follow it.
30:49 One innocent question is,
30:51 the increase of petroleum prices,
30:53 is it actually a political problem?
30:55 Or it has nothing to do with politics at all?
30:57 That the politicians made this issue
30:59 for their political interests,
31:01 because whoever is the leader,
31:03 whoever is in power,
31:05 he is a politician,
31:07 and his political opponents
31:09 say, "Look, he has ruined your business."
31:11 Although he also knows what is going to happen.
31:13 I remember,
31:15 this government,
31:17 Mr. Shahbaz's government,
31:19 they used to say,
31:21 "Imran Khan did this, he did that."
31:23 Then when it felt that
31:25 Imran Khan's government
31:27 was going to leave,
31:29 it didn't leave,
31:31 it was going to leave,
31:33 and the prices would be the same.
31:35 Then they didn't say, "We will make it cheaper."
31:37 Because it felt like, "The government is going to leave in two days."
31:39 Then they didn't say.
31:41 So maybe it's not that the politicians
31:43 are misleading the public in their politics.
31:45 It has nothing to do with politics at all.
31:47 If not, then the public should know
31:49 what is going on.
31:51 Today we have three experts in this field,
31:53 Khakha Najeeb, an economist,
31:55 who keeps an eye on this issue,
31:57 thank you very much, sir.
31:59 Asad Raza,
32:01 who is the GM of the Indian government,
32:03 we will understand from him what he says.
32:05 Mozam-e-Raslam is an economist,
32:07 of course, he has an affiliation,
32:09 but we would like to know from him in an academic way,
32:11 what is going on?
32:13 I would like to request all three of you
32:15 to keep this as academic as possible,
32:17 and as less technical as possible.
32:19 Khakha, I am starting from you.
32:21 My first question to all three of you is the same,
32:23 keep it as short, precise, and easy as possible.
32:25 If petrol is expensive in a country,
32:27 then the government,
32:29 how much is the government's
32:31 efficiency related to it?
32:33 Or is it simple that
32:35 whatever you get,
32:37 there will be a certain percentage of taxes
32:39 which every government puts,
32:41 and sells.
32:43 Does it have any relation to the government's efficiency or not?
32:45 Mr. Khakan.
32:47 Mr. Badami,
32:49 let's look at this in two contexts,
32:51 one in the short run,
32:53 and one in the long run.
32:55 In the short run,
32:57 what is happening is that
32:59 in Pakistan,
33:01 because the value of one rupee has weakened,
33:03 it has a very big impact.
33:05 But along with this,
33:07 Arab Light, which matters to us,
33:09 is 96 dollars per barrel at the moment.
33:11 If you go three or four months ago,
33:13 it was 78 dollars per barrel.
33:15 So you saw that
33:17 there was a 23% change in it.
33:19 And the third thing
33:21 is that when you made an agreement
33:23 with IMF,
33:25 the recent one,
33:27 two years ago it was a
33:29 15 rupee levy, then it became 30 rupees,
33:31 and now it is 60 rupees on petrol,
33:33 and 50 rupees on high-speed diesel.
33:35 In the short run,
33:37 these are the three factors.
33:39 In the long run,
33:41 the main factor is that
33:43 Pakistan's own capacity of crude
33:45 has weakened,
33:47 and we have to depend more on imports.
33:49 In 2022-23,
33:51 there are 47 wells,
33:53 and if we go back four years,
33:55 five years ago,
33:57 there were 110 wells.
33:59 So these are the factors of the long run,
34:01 in which we changed our dependence
34:03 on our energy
34:05 and put it on international.
34:07 And this happened in the short run.
34:09 In the short run,
34:11 if your direct taxation was much better,
34:13 then you could have done this,
34:15 that you would have negotiated your PDL
34:17 and said that we do not want to put PDL.
34:19 Or we have to put less PDL.
34:21 But remember that
34:23 there is a 0% sales tax.
34:25 In the region,
34:27 the prices of petrol are low in Pakistan,
34:29 but along with that,
34:31 we have to say that
34:33 the purchasing power in the region
34:35 is low compared to India
34:37 or Bangladesh.
34:39 This is an overall situation.
34:41 Okay.
34:43 I understood what you said.
34:45 Quickly, before I move to my other guest,
34:47 Mr. Asad, if I have to quantify this.
34:49 The echo is coming.
34:51 If I have to quantify,
34:53 then will Mr. Khakan call it 50-50?
34:55 That buying is in dollars.
34:57 Now if the dollar is strong
34:59 and your currency is weak,
35:01 then the government's governance factor
35:03 comes into play.
35:05 You have to pay a levy because
35:07 IMF has said so.
35:09 You have to go to IMF because
35:11 you did not manage your economy well.
35:13 This is a matter of governance.
35:15 But yes, it has already gone from $75 to $95.
35:17 If we have to quantify
35:19 the percentage of government
35:21 and the percentage of uncontrollable factors,
35:23 then how much will you do roughly?
35:25 So that we get a rough idea.
35:27 The rough idea is that
35:29 of course our macro fundamentals are weak.
35:31 Our production capacity is weak.
35:33 There is pressure on money.
35:35 The inflows of money are low.
35:37 There is pressure on money.
35:39 When we have started trying to fix these things,
35:41 like we did a crackdown,
35:43 took an administrative action,
35:45 then the money was justified.
35:47 If there is a 25-28% weakness in money
35:49 this year, then it is playing a large role.
35:51 And in this,
35:53 we have not been able to fix
35:55 our fundamentals for many decades.
35:57 That is the reality.
35:59 Your production capacity is weak everywhere.
36:01 Secondly,
36:03 you have not done drilling.
36:05 You have not done proper work
36:07 for many decades.
36:09 So that is also a thing
36:11 that is disturbing you.
36:13 Economic governance
36:15 is a fundamental issue of Pakistan.
36:17 You have rightly pointed that out.
36:19 I am connecting with Asad.
36:21 Meanwhile,
36:23 Mr. Muzammil, please tell us.
36:25 I will give a different answer.
36:29 I think that
36:31 our politicians in Pakistan
36:33 have made a necklace
36:35 of petroleum prices.
36:37 I remember very well
36:39 when Ukraine
36:41 and the commodity
36:43 super cycle started.
36:45 When the Prime Minister
36:47 was talking about the increase
36:49 in the prices of petroleum
36:51 in the international market,
36:53 I told the Prime Minister
36:55 and the Chairman
36:57 that why do you
36:59 announce this?
37:01 The OCAC
37:03 in your country,
37:05 the big petroleum companies,
37:07 are self-sufficient.
37:09 They can raise their own rates.
37:11 You keep it for 15 days
37:13 and when it increases,
37:15 you are being abused.
37:17 You don't get the price of petroleum
37:19 and you have reduced the tax.
37:21 But the media
37:23 presents it as a petrol bomb
37:25 and provokes people
37:27 to say that the bomb has come.
37:29 The government
37:31 then spreads the effects of the bomb.
37:33 I said that you are doing wrong.
37:35 So at that time,
37:37 the Prime Minister
37:39 said that you are right.
37:41 So it was decided that
37:43 as soon as the commodity super cycle
37:45 starts, we will hand it over to the market
37:47 and we will regulate it.
37:49 I gave an example of tomatoes
37:51 which are sold for Rs. 20 per kg
37:53 and then Rs. 400 per kg.
37:55 This is a global market
37:57 and the public will understand.
37:59 But do you know the problem?
38:01 Our bureaucracy,
38:03 our people
38:05 are like petrol.
38:07 You have to give a tender.
38:09 If there is a commission
38:11 of half a dollar or a few cents,
38:13 then it becomes millions of dollars
38:15 in lakhs of dollars.
38:17 Similarly, there is LNG.
38:19 The government has kept LNG in its hands.
38:21 No one else can take it.
38:23 So the tender that opens,
38:25 the bidding that happens,
38:27 everyone benefits from it.
38:29 Similarly, when
38:31 petrol comes to the country,
38:33 then a price is taken out
38:35 that petrol has to be given at the same rate
38:37 in the whole country from here to the cyber.
38:39 Its rent, freight pool,
38:41 then exchange rate assumptions.
38:43 Brother, let the PSO compete
38:45 with Shell, Shell, Total,
38:47 Total, Biko, Biko, etc.
38:49 Okay.
38:51 Now, one more thing after this.
38:53 Now, petrol is becoming expensive in the world.
38:55 Now, Mr. Khakan said that
38:57 the Pakistani forces are not poor,
38:59 but petrol is expensive outside Pakistan.
39:01 Saying this means that they will have India, Bangladesh, etc.
39:03 Brother, listen to me.
39:05 80 to 90 percent of their
39:07 commercial goods in their country
39:09 run by rail.
39:11 Rail transportation has been terminated in Pakistan.
39:13 Now, the truck fare,
39:15 the truck that leaves from Karachi port
39:17 and goes to Lahore, has a higher fare.
39:19 Pakistan's goods come cheaper from China.
39:21 Freight, as it is called.
39:23 And from here,
39:25 when the expensive fare is applied,
39:27 things will be expensive,
39:29 but who has ruined this?
39:31 We have ruined this.
39:33 You have summed it up very well.
39:35 You started from here.
39:37 When you said that the media was making hype,
39:39 I was answering this.
39:41 When a politician has claimed
39:43 that the Pakistanis will make petrol cheaper,
39:45 and then the media will say that it will be expensive.
39:47 But you have already answered my question.
39:49 You started from here that the politician
39:51 has made a necklace of his own.
39:53 Ideally, you are saying that
39:55 the government should not be so independent.
39:57 It should be an independent authority
39:59 and it should decide that it is a commodity.
40:01 Different factors will determine when the price will go up or down.
40:03 I will come back to you, Mr. Muzammil.
40:05 Now, I will ask Mr. Asad.
40:07 I am asking you about your relationship with Pakistan State Oil.
40:09 You are in a very high position.
40:11 Sir, as a professional,
40:13 please explain to us
40:15 what you think about this.
40:17 Are there elements of the government?
40:19 Or are there uncontrollable factors
40:21 that determine the petrol prices in Pakistan?
40:23 The most important thing
40:25 to understand about this
40:27 is that in Pakistan,
40:29 the majority of petroleum products,
40:31 whether it is crude, petrol,
40:33 or diesel,
40:35 are imported.
40:37 70% of the products are imported
40:39 and 30% are made here
40:41 in local refineries.
40:43 When you have 70% exposure
40:45 to the international market,
40:47 then the commodity of oil
40:49 in the international market
40:51 is very much exchanged.
40:53 And the primary reason
40:55 for this is market fundamentals.
40:57 The price of petrol
40:59 going up or down
41:01 is due to demand and supply.
41:03 The second thing is
41:05 geopolitical situation.
41:07 I can say that
41:09 2020 was a very good year
41:11 because the price of petrol
41:13 had fallen so much that you may remember
41:15 that crude oil was $15 per barrel.
41:17 Today, it is sitting at $100.
41:19 Now you will ask, how did it reach $100?
41:21 How did it reach $15?
41:23 At that time, it was $15
41:25 because of COVID,
41:27 the demand had fallen a lot
41:29 and no country was buying
41:31 because of economic standstill
41:33 in the whole world.
41:35 As far as today's topic is concerned,
41:37 due to the Russian-Ukraine war,
41:39 there was a sudden spike in demand
41:41 and tension in the world
41:43 as to where to buy oil
41:45 because all Europe used to buy from Russia.
41:47 Recently, a few days ago,
41:49 the demand for oil has increased.
41:51 Why is it increasing?
41:53 Because Russia has started
41:55 to stop oil production.
41:57 These factors keep on increasing.
41:59 Then comes the foreign exchange
42:01 which is a rupee-dollar parity.
42:03 This is a normal phenomenon
42:05 that happens in the whole world
42:07 that the price of petrol
42:09 goes up or down
42:11 just like a traded commodity.
42:13 It has nothing to do with
42:15 the political scenario of Pakistan.
42:17 Sir, roughly,
42:19 I will make it easier for the elders
42:21 to answer these two questions.
42:23 First, how much is the petrol
42:25 per litre cheaper or more expensive
42:27 compared to other countries?
42:29 Second, what are the taxes?
42:31 If I am buying for Rs. 331,
42:33 how much has the government
42:35 bought and how much is the tax?
42:37 These two things can be explained.
42:39 As of right now, if you compare the prices,
42:41 the price of Sri Lanka
42:43 is Rs. 300 per litre.
42:45 How much is it?
42:47 The price of Bangladesh
42:49 is Rs. 390 per litre.
42:51 India's price is Rs. 365.
42:53 Now, if I say
42:55 that in the UAE,
42:57 it is Rs. 260,
42:59 then that is not possible
43:01 because the oil is extracted from the UAE.
43:03 I cannot compare it with India.
43:05 We are more or less comparable.
43:07 If we compare all the countries
43:09 based on one type of country,
43:11 then the oil is more expensive
43:13 than the petrol.
43:15 If we compare the prices of all the countries,
43:17 then it is more understandable.
43:19 Secondly, if we talk about taxes,
43:21 as of right now,
43:23 the PDL, Petroleum Development Levy,
43:25 is at Rs. 50 and Rs. 60
43:27 for petrol and diesel.
43:29 Apart from this,
43:31 the import incidences and duties
43:33 are at around 10%.
43:35 Apart from this, there is no other tax.
43:37 So, this tax, Rs. 60,
43:39 is directly PDL and the rest is Rs. 15-20.
43:41 This is the same in all the countries in the world.
43:43 In India, this percentage
43:45 is unacceptably high.
43:47 Look,
43:49 the countries like the UK,
43:51 America,
43:53 they heavily tax petrol.
43:55 For example,
43:57 the petrol is priced at Rs. 60-100.
43:59 Diesel is priced at around this.
44:01 Why?
44:03 Because they have heavily taxed it.
44:05 But you can compare the UK
44:07 with our country.
44:09 Because it is a completely different country.
44:11 They don't want people to use cars,
44:13 diesel and petrol.
44:15 There is public transport.
44:17 We are moving towards this.
44:19 And, God willing,
44:21 there is a rapid improvement.
44:23 Not only this, but in electric vehicles
44:25 and all these things,
44:27 Pakistan is developing
44:29 within its means.
44:31 So, I think this is a positive thing.
44:33 Noted.
44:35 Let's conclude this quickly.
44:37 Mr. Muzamin, do you agree with this?
44:39 As Mr. Asad said,
44:41 the price is more or less
44:43 the same as the countries we compare with.
44:45 And this depends
44:47 on uncontrollable factors
44:49 like petrol and prices.
44:51 Look, they have given a good
44:55 comparison of prices.
44:57 But the problem is that
44:59 in their countries,
45:01 in India and Bangladesh,
45:03 everything is done by public transport.
45:05 There is no public noise.
45:07 In Pakistan,
45:09 the number of vehicles per thousand
45:11 is the highest.
45:13 It is higher than India,
45:15 Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.
45:17 The reason is that there is no
45:19 public transport infrastructure.
45:21 So, if the price increases there,
45:23 people don't even know
45:25 whether they have to buy a bus ticket
45:27 or a local train.
45:29 Here, everyone has to kick the motorbike
45:31 or start the car.
45:33 Secondly, I have already told you
45:35 that the commercial goods
45:37 have a big role of diesel
45:39 and that is why the price increases.
45:41 So, if you look at the region,
45:43 even if the price of petrol is high,
45:45 the price is 6-7% there
45:47 and 25% in Pakistan.
45:49 This is the reason.
45:51 Very interesting. Mr. Khakan?
45:53 In the short run,
45:55 because the options are limited,
45:57 currency appreciation will help.
45:59 So, that's one thing.
46:01 I think the second thing is
46:03 if the procurement and logistics
46:05 efficiency is increased,
46:07 then in the short run, that can also help.
46:09 If there is a lot of difficulty,
46:11 then some targeted subsidy
46:13 through the income support program
46:15 can be created.
46:17 But in the medium term,
46:19 the real thing is to deregulate
46:21 petrol and diesel and let the competitive
46:23 market work.
46:25 Number two, Pakistan's public transport
46:27 system and freight carrying
46:29 system, which has gone to the roads
46:31 instead of the railway, will have to
46:33 shift back to the railway.
46:35 In the long run, the cities of Pakistan
46:37 will have to be dense.
46:39 The working of Pakistan
46:41 may be, you know, all 5 or 6 days
46:43 instead of 4 days.
46:45 So, in the long run,
46:47 you can solve it like this.
46:49 To handle this PDL of 50 and 60 rupees,
46:51 if your taxation is 70%
46:53 indirect,
46:55 then you will remain
46:57 indirect.
46:59 Until the taxation system is fixed,
47:01 you can handle it.
47:03 So, this is an overall perspective.
47:05 Lastly, the solution of
47:07 electric vehicles,
47:09 electric motorbikes,
47:11 is the solution.
47:13 I think, yes, we are moving,
47:15 but at a snail's pace.
47:17 I think it needs to be increased a lot
47:19 so that the 41,000 megawatt nameplate
47:21 capacity of electricity
47:23 can also be utilized.
47:25 So, the solution is not
47:27 political slogans, but reforms
47:29 are the solution.
47:31 Mr. Asad, you tell us,
47:33 in the coming days,
47:35 should we expect more
47:37 or better in terms of petroleum prices?
47:39 Sir, look, unless
47:41 something very unusual happens,
47:43 excuse me,
47:45 prices are more or less stable.
47:47 You must be aware of the formula
47:49 that the average price of this fortnight
47:51 will be announced on 1st October.
47:53 So, if we compare two fortnights,
47:55 then the prices are more or less stable
47:57 as of right now.
47:59 We don't see any increase.
48:01 Right, sir. Thank you very much, sir.
48:03 The summary is that,
48:05 as Mr. Muzammil and
48:07 Khakha Najee and Mr. Asad
48:09 are saying, there are many issues
48:11 that are not controllable.
48:13 Long-term reforms are the solution.
48:15 Rest, keep on doing political slogans
48:17 and keep on playing with the emotions
48:19 of the public.
48:21 and not in slogans, but in reforms. And that is enough.

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