'In absence of democratic structure', streets are 'ballot' of Iranians demanding 'change & justice'
Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Transcript
00:00 Well, for more analysis now, let's bring in Azadeh Pozand from the University of London,
00:04 where you're a researcher in women and activism in Iran.
00:07 Thanks for taking the time to speak to us.
00:09 What are you hearing from your contacts in Iran?
00:11 What's the situation like for women now, one year after the arrest of Massa Amini?
00:17 I would say the situation in terms of state-level repression is as grave as ever, and when it
00:22 comes both to heavy punitive measures against those who don't quote-unquote "adhere" to
00:30 the compulsory veil, but also, as I understand from underground, the situation of women's
00:39 rights activists, those who participated in the protests, and really anybody who has expressed
00:46 grievances in one way or the other has become so difficult that really just carrying on
00:54 ordinary life is near impossible.
01:00 There are still many behind bars.
01:04 We just had one of the most prominent women's rights activists on hunger strike until today.
01:13 There are reports of torture, of gender-based violence in prisons, on harassment of families
01:20 of prisoners and those killed, as well as at the same time continuous dissent and resilience
01:29 and resistance, both shown by non-activist women, so-called ordinary women, as well as
01:38 activist women, youth, and minority groups.
01:42 We saw as a day for many months a protest that came in the wake of Massimi's death,
01:47 the biggest in Iran since the revolution in 1979.
01:52 They lasted for months, and then they petered out.
01:55 Why?
01:56 Because the violence was too great?
01:58 Exactly that.
02:00 Just as these protests were unprecedented in terms of the volume, the number of people
02:09 out, and the explicitly, explicitly of demands which went far beyond the compulsory and to
02:15 a compulsory bail and very explicitly demanded regime change, the crackdown, the Islamic
02:24 Republic as we know it, is a very abusive regime when it comes to human rights.
02:29 This time also they did not shy away from opening fire on protesters and detaining thousands
02:36 and thousands of people, executing individuals for their participation in the protests.
02:44 We believe that it's the scale and the brutality of the crackdown that I wouldn't say has put
02:50 an end to the protests, but has for now in a way contained the format that the dissent
02:58 had taken in terms of it being out in the streets.
03:01 We believe that on the ground, that the level of dissent and resistance and resilience will
03:06 continue and not long in the future we will probably again see uprisings of varying scales.
03:14 I know it's difficult to generalize, but would you say that all women in Iran are on the
03:18 same page when it comes to issues like the hijab?
03:21 Or are there still many women who agree with the government's positions on things like
03:25 that and on women's rights?
03:28 Iran is an autocratic regime, in an autocratic regime where information is also withheld
03:33 from citizens, from the world, as you see.
03:37 Families of victims cannot even sometimes find their loved ones.
03:42 Even when they're dead, it takes days to find the bodies, if at all.
03:47 You're talking about this kind of a regime.
03:49 In this kind of a regime, it's in my opinion better not to speculate numbers and percentages
03:57 and so on, but to really think that in the absence of a democratic structure, the streets
04:03 became the ballot of the Iranian women and the Iranian people.
04:07 So the numbers of women and Iranian people and youth and minority groups you saw on the
04:12 street in my opinion speaks a volume in the absence of the ability to vote in a free and
04:18 fair referendum and an election to really state what they mean.
04:22 So no matter whether it's all the women or the majority of women or some of the women,
04:28 a significantly enough number and groups of Iranian people demand change and demand justice.
04:38 And I think that's what we really need to highlight.
04:41 Do you notice a generational difference at all?
04:44 Are, for example, young Iranian women more hopeful than their elders for the future,
04:48 for change?
04:50 I believe that what's really incredible about Iran's women's rights movement is that, first
04:56 of all, it's one of the oldest and the strongest movements in the country.
04:59 It goes as far as the constitutional revolution, far before the Islamic revolution.
05:05 And then, you know, Iranian women were the first group of citizens who came to the streets
05:11 only weeks after the Islamic Republic's establishment to object to compulsory bail.
05:17 And so generational activism, generational dissent, generational resilience and resistance
05:22 has been in the DNA of Iran's women's rights movement.
05:26 But of course the Gen Z of Iran has shown an amazing level of bravery.
05:35 And also I would say they have shown incredible intelligence in the ability to explicitly
05:44 and clearly communicate not only to the authorities of the Islamic Republic, but to the world
05:50 their demand for freedom, for dignity, for equality and for justice.
05:55 Azadeh, just a quick word on the international community you just mentioned there.
05:59 What can and should other countries be doing to help women in Iran?
06:04 I believe that when we talk about a regime like the Islamic Republic, it's a question
06:10 of accountability, the lack of it, and an end to the culture of impunity.
06:16 As we see, Western countries, while many times they express, they make statements expressing
06:26 sympathy with the activists and the victims of violations of human rights in Iran, behind
06:30 the scene they, you know, they make deals with this regime and in some ways empower
06:35 them.
06:38 And so what has to happen is a multilateral, inclusive of the global South, and a coordinated
06:45 effort, not only short-term, instance-based, but longer-term strategy in order to not only
06:52 disempower a brutal regime like Iran that's violating rights not only domestically, but
06:59 also regionally and internationally, and to really seek international justice pathways
07:05 in order to hold the authorities and entities responsible for the perpetuations of these
07:12 crimes accountable as a preventative measure also for future atrocities by this regime.
07:20 Azadeh, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us.
07:23 Azadeh Poisson from the University of London.
07:25 Thank you very much.